--- Log opened Wed Jul 03 00:00:14 2013
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07:06 < jonathan__> "The world's first gun made using 3-D printing - called "The Liberator" - was successfully fired on May 6 in Austin, Texas.   ....  And now Danish startup Create It REAL has produced software that it says blocks users from printing guns in the first place.  ....  "The feature creates a unique digital fingerprint of the firearm...the manufacturer could decide to block the print or to simply give a warning to the user of the pote
07:06 < jonathan__> danger." "
07:07 < jonathan__> great, malware for 3d printers now
07:07 < jonathan__> and anti-malware-software to go with it
07:10 < chris_99> haha
07:10 < chris_99> what a joke
07:12 < Urchin[emacs]> it was even worse than the original liberator, which usually enters lists of worst guns ever
07:12 <@fenn> which is the malware in this case? (i'm honestly confused)
07:13 < Urchin[emacs]> guns are not malware
07:13 < gradstudentbot> Who the hell stole my pipette?
07:14 <@kanzure> hahah "blocks"
07:14 <@kanzure> god damn it. drm.
07:14 < jonathan__> just wait for the story to come out, it will at some point.   kid downloads 3d model to print out a copy of his favorite toy fire engine, and oh nos!  it prints out a gun instead!
07:14 <@fenn> it's more like the DNA synthesis blacklist than anything
07:15 <@kanzure> the fire truck transforms into a gun
07:15 <@fenn> oh noes, it's a dong! call the baptists
07:15 <@fenn> will somebody please think of the children
07:15 < jonathan__> yes, the children.
07:16 <@kanzure> dunno how they plan to distinguish between toy guns and guns
07:16 <@kanzure> or sling shots
07:16 <@fenn> if there were software that could identify any gun, our problems would be solved
07:17 < jonathan__> I dont think fax machines ever had this feature.  back in the old days it was common to get a lot of fax spam.  hundreds of pages a day in fact.   then I think there was finally a law passed against it and it slowed to a trickle, like one per day.
07:17 <@fenn> (because that same software could engineer guns and other tools via random mutation and selection)
07:17 < jonathan__> fax never had anti-spam software for obvious reasons..
07:17 < chris_99> considering you could make a 'gun' out of a pipe
07:17 < chris_99> i'm imagining it's pretty difficult
07:18 < jonathan__> obviously the software has to detect the gun AND transform it into a toy AND put that orange piece on the end to show it's a toy.
07:18 <@kanzure> they probably just have a 3d printer phoning home
07:18 <@kanzure> and then some assholes at the company marking hashes of knonw files to be "evil"
07:18 <@fenn> i got into metalworking and machining because i wanted to make a better paintball gun; seeing how paintball guns are considered "firearms" all this fox news stuff has me sorta worried
07:19 < chris_99> doesn't a firearm have to use fire heh
07:19 < jonathan__> hey, how come all these columbine shooting sprees and newtown shooting sprees the dudes don't just use silencers?
07:19 <@kanzure> my meetlog is essentially my own elaborate spying program
07:19 <@kanzure> except it will probably just shoot me in the foot
07:21 < jonathan__> "New York City gets .nyc domain name approval "
07:21 < jonathan__> did everyone register their domans yet?
07:21 <@fenn> am i the only one who thinks we should have less top level domains rather than more?
07:21 < jonathan__> I should register microbrew.nyc lol
07:22 < jonathan__> how about sexinthecity.nyc
07:23 <@fenn> how about all one and two letter domains
07:24 < jonathan__> comsidering people aren't really supposed to ever type in a URL, yes TLDs are useless
07:24 <@fenn> you arent supposed to type in a url? since when?
07:24 < Urchin[emacs]> ??
07:24 < chris_99> news to me
07:24 < jonathan__> duh, talk to nerds get a nerd response
07:24 < jonathan__> non-nerds do not "remember urls by heart"
07:25 < jonathan__> non-nerds do not "know what a url is"
07:25 <@fenn> no, they read it on their cereal box
07:25 < jonathan__> non-nerds do not know the difference between the "search google" box in a browser and the "url box" in a browser!
07:25 < gradstudentbot> I have this really good idea. I just can't get it to work.
07:25 <@fenn> or see it on tv, or the side of a bus, or whatever
07:25 < jonathan__> thats just because of the broken usabiilty model
07:25 < chris_99> i think you're underestimating the general populice jonathan__
07:26 <@fenn> (my browser only has one box)
07:26 < jonathan__> i have a friend who will type "www.google.com" and then when google comes up he will type "disney.com" into the google search box lol
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07:26 < jonathan__> he has no understanding of url
07:26 <@fenn> why doesnt he just type disney.com in the first place
07:26 < jonathan__> or domain or any of these nerd things and he won't ever
07:28 < jonathan__> I work with some rf engineers just out of school and they do not know the difference between some.example.com and example.com/some
07:28 <@fenn> so, these rf engineers are not nerds??
07:28 < jonathan__> they are not computer nerds they are rf nerds
07:28 < jonathan__> or vlsi nerds
07:29 < gradstudentbot> It's not really significant, but there's definitely a trend.
07:29 <@fenn> i didnt know it was good for anything besides making computers
07:29 < jonathan__> the usability model should be:  there's a box, you type in the brand name or search term, it goes to the right place.
07:29 < jonathan__> that's the model, now make it work, scotty.
07:29 <@fenn> what's "the right place" then?
07:30 < jonathan__> scotty, just get it done
07:30 < jonathan__> if it's a trademark it should go to the trademark's owner's site
07:30 <@fenn> trademarks only apply in a particular domain
07:30 < jonathan__> if it's a brand it should go to the most likely brands
07:30 <@fenn> most likely according to whom?
07:31 < jonathan__> there was this thing a long time ago called the yellow pages and white pages, that actually worked pretty well
07:31 < jonathan__> maybe because it wasn't an open source effort and was dictated by a monopoly
07:32 <@fenn> oh, you mean like ICAN was before 2000
07:33 < jonathan__> sure humans are good at categorizing and recognition, so just use that skill...  maybe all blogs should go somewhere.blog
07:33 <@fenn> i think the real problem is stupid people who are unwilling to learn even the most basic things about how the world works
07:34 < jonathan__> i'd say a related problem is how many nerds think of non-nerds as stupid people
07:34 < jonathan__> it's called usabilty
07:34 < jonathan__> search index is hard, why, because html is too loose
07:35 <@fenn> it's really amazing that DNS even works at all
07:35 < jonathan__> metadata is not consistent, and the system can be gamed
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07:36 < jonathan__> maybe DNS should require keywords when registering a site.
07:36 < jonathan__> that would eliminate TLDs.
07:37 <@fenn> how do you specify a particular keyword set then?
07:37 <@kanzure> they don't read it on a cereal box. they "scan a qr code". maybe.
07:38 < jonathan__> well, TLD's are already a tiny set of particular keywords.  they were just decided long ago by an open source dude.
07:38 <@fenn> "an open source dude" are you serious?
07:38 <@kanzure> jonathan__: so far you seem to be the most likely person to consider a non-nerd to be stupid
07:39 < jonathan__> "people should not have to know how to perform complex tasks which can be abstracted by software"  != stupid
07:39 < Urchin[emacs]> I've encountered the behavior of people googling urls, I've always managed to set them straight so far
07:39 <@fenn> i think the first TLD was either .arpa or .mil
07:39 < Urchin[emacs]> I view it as signing one's name with an X of the modern world
07:39 <@kanzure> jonathan__: 07:34 < jonathan__> i'd say a related problem is how many nerds think of non-nerds as stupid people
07:39 <@kanzure> jonathan__: you seem to have this opinion
07:40 < jonathan__> don't get semantic with me
07:41 < jonathan__> why a cereal box should have to say "visit kellogs corn flakes at kellog.com" is just silly
07:41 <@fenn> my point is that there's no obvious natural one to one mapping of servers/websites and keywords
07:41 <@kanzure> there never was
07:41 <@kanzure> anyone assuming otherwise is a bad person
07:41 < jonathan__> ha, sure it's not obvious.  that's why it's called regulatory.  lol
07:42 <@fenn> if we all spoke lojban, then maybe, just maybe it would be possible to map words to data structures
07:42 < jonathan__> why isn't the url just called "kellogs corn flakes" and be done with it
07:42 <@fenn> kind of like wikipedia disambiguation pages
07:42 < Urchin[emacs]> if you restricted yourself to subsets of lojban
07:43 < jonathan__> it's natural language processing
07:43 <@fenn> (fwiw i now hate lojban)
07:43 < jonathan__> well, I guess siri will just take care of it
07:44 <@fenn> so jonathan__ when you set up your internet toaster, how do you access it, versus the toaster belonging to the other jonathans in the world
07:44 < jonathan__> if .TLD is a data structure then why have to expose it to a trillion people
07:44 <@kanzure> we'll put gradstudentbot in charge
07:44 < gradstudentbot> You don't happen to have any more virgin flies, do you?
07:44 < jonathan__> the toaster connects to something right
07:44 <@fenn> the toaster connects to the internet
07:44 < Urchin[emacs]> fenn: compound words cause trouble there
07:44 < jonathan__> then, it's associated with that right
07:44 < jonathan__> oh, sure, it's in the cloud
07:45 <@fenn> there could be multiple routes to the toaster
07:45 < jonathan__> I should type in "toaster in jonathan's kitchen" and that would be it
07:45 <@fenn> which jonathan?
07:45 < jonathan__> that is assuming I have more than one toaster
07:45 <@fenn> or more than one kitchen
07:45 < jonathan__> dude, it knows it's my search, so of course it automatically knows
07:46 <@kanzure> how does it know you don't mean the other jonathans?
07:46 < jonathan__> my location is already known, so by default it's the kitchen nearest me
07:46 < jonathan__> if I'm talking about other jonathans then I use a last name of course
07:46 <@fenn> how is this different from the currently awful behavior of google?
07:46 < jonathan__> how does english work, yea, exactly the same
07:46 <@kanzure> last name is not specific enough
07:46 < jonathan__> if I'm talking about the default, I dont have to be specific
07:47 <@kanzure> gradstudentbot: back me up, here.
07:47 <@kanzure> you guys broke him
07:47 < jonathan__> location is specific
07:47 < jonathan__> hence, .nyc
07:47 < jonathan__> dude gradstudentbot is a girl hottie
07:47 < gradstudentbot> Someone's sitting at my bench space.
07:47 <@kanzure> .nyc doesn't mean "in nyc"
07:47 < jonathan__> don't destroy my illusions
07:48 <@fenn> you mean all that spam i get from .la isn't really from horny celebrities?
07:48 <@kanzure> i wonder what the equivalent gtld would be for beijing or 珠江三角洲
07:48 <@kanzure> grr encodings
07:49 < jonathan__> .nyc registrations proabbly have to pass some test for regulatory registration in NYC
07:49 <@fenn> i really worry about unicode domain names
07:49 < jonathan__> it's the same with .travel
07:49 <@kanzure> i mean 'the area known as hong kong and shenzen"
07:49 <@kanzure> '
07:49 < jonathan__> of course I dont know how they police that
07:49 < gradstudentbot> Sorry, I can't really talk right now because I'm burried in grant writing.
07:49 < Burninate> .hk?
07:49 <@kanzure> .hk only makes sense for hong kong
07:50 <@kanzure> plus, it's really a unicode symbol for those people
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07:50 <@kanzure> what is it going to be? .xz----49140193
07:50 < Burninate> shenzhen is greater Hong Kong
07:50 <@kanzure> i am bad at this
07:50 <@kanzure> i believe you
07:50 < jonathan__> so obviously try to register starbucks.nyc and see what happens
07:51 < jonathan__> maybe it's all a consipiracy by the registrars to make more $
07:51 <@kanzure> biohacking.nyc
07:51 < jonathan__> now companies need to register cereal.com cereal.net cerial.nyc
07:51 <@kanzure> today i am leaving san jose
07:51 <@fenn> most humans can't tell the difference between – and -
07:51 <@kanzure> just fyi to all the california nerds up in this joint.
07:52 < jonathan__> well the money is in xxx entertainment always has been
07:52 < jonathan__> I didnt know you had a physical location
07:52 < Burninate> 'the money'?
07:52 < jonathan__> I thoguht you were ephemeral
07:52 <@fenn> he's made out of meat
07:53 < Burninate> xxx entertainment is now substantially free
07:53 < jonathan__> i thoguht his mind was jacked into the net and he existed everywhere?
07:53 < Burninate> I dabble in omnipresence.
07:53 <@fenn> i didn't deny that
07:54 < jonathan__> i also thought he was on the run from the law and could only live within certain embassies, like snowden
07:55 < brownies> kanzure: leaving so soon?
07:57 <@fenn> facultative californiaphile
08:01 < jonathan__> " In New York City 62 percent of workers were somewhat interested in changing careers, compared to 67 percent of workers in Atlanta and 60 percent in Los Angeles. Of the 14 percent of workers overall who were in their dream job, nearly 20 percent worked in business management, followed by 16 percent in healthcare."
08:02 < jonathan__> "Location was also important. Sixty percent of people living in San Francisco said they did not want to change careers. Twenty-two percent were likely to be in a dream job, compared to just eight percent of employees in Dallas-Ft, Worth and Los Angeles."
08:02 < jonathan__> I dont even know what "business management" means.
08:02 <@fenn> yelling at people on the phone
08:02 < jonathan__> yea so why is that a "dream job" ?
08:03 <@fenn> some people like it. go figure
08:03 < jonathan__> maybe it means "making a lot of money to bullshit people for 8 hours a day"
08:03 < brownies> "somewhat interested" seems like a really noncommittal answer, too
08:04 < jonathan__> "Business Management is a two-year, 60-credit course of study leading to an A.A.S. degree. The coursework includes both general requirements (liberal arts courses) as well as curriculum requirements (business courses)."
08:04 < jonathan__> "Introduction to Travel & Tourism "   ummm  OK i can see why it would be a dream job if there's basically no work involved
08:05 < jonathan__> I always wonder what happens to all those "business majors" in college.   there's so many of them.  where do they go?
08:06 < jonathan__> is it really possible to grow up into a salaried adult after sleeping thru classes and drinking mass quantities of beer multiple times per week?
08:07 < jonathan__> I've never had a manager who actually had a business major at all.
08:08 <@fenn> i think most of them go into sales
08:10 < jonathan__> i did meet a guy who said his previous job was being a marketing manager for selling toilet paper.  I was kind of in disbelief.
08:11 < jonathan__> um not marketing manager.  product line manager.  like, his job was to manage relationships with companies that bought his employer's toilet paper.    (????)
08:11 < jonathan__> there needs to be a human for that???
08:12 < jonathan__> what exactly is a toilet paper relationship?
08:13 <@fenn> cue rant about the superiority of communism
08:15 < jonathan__> can a 3d printer print fiberglass?
08:16 <@fenn> if you consider a LOM robot a "3d printer"
08:16 < jonathan__> I assume not..
08:16 < jonathan__> fiberglass seems pretty complex.  layers of mat with epoxy.
08:17 <@fenn> there was some work with reprap embedding fibers, but it was only along the xy plane
08:17 <@fenn> modern carbon fiber techniques include 3d weaves and other fancy tricks to maximize strength
08:19 <@fenn> .title http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4DLr8qHliI
08:19 < yoleaux> Weaving the Lexus LFA's Carbon Fiber A-Pillar is Mesmerizing - YouTube
08:20 < chris_99> that's insanely clever!
08:21 < chris_99> do they make the whole chassis with that?
08:22 <@fenn> that's not even 3d weave, i'm not even sure how it's done
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08:41 <@kanzure> brownies: yes
08:42 < brownies> a little higher quality video... though more marketing in there too
08:42 < brownies> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AScfESzQzIQ
08:42 < brownies> .title
08:42 < yoleaux> Lexus: The Hard Way - Carbon Loom - YouTube
08:43 < brownies> it sounds like they make those rods of woven fibers and then mold and resin-ify them
08:43 <@kanzure> "Aubrey de Grey has been appointed Adjunct Professor of MIPT in Moscow" sell-out
08:44 < brownies> don't adjunct professors make terribly small amounts of money?
08:44 <@kanzure> aubrey is loaded
08:44 <@kanzure> he inherited a fortune
08:45 <@kanzure> his actual background is comp sci and hanging out in silicon valley through the 80s-90s
08:46 < brownies> oh, really? i had no idea.
08:47 < gradstudentbot> I think I'll be done in 6 years.
08:48 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/aubrey.jpg
08:48 <@fenn> well "professor de grey" sounds much more authoritative
08:49 <@kanzure> "he's only a lesser professor, one of those adjunct associates"
08:49 <@kanzure> campbell is moving to portland
08:49 <@kanzure> no wait.. eugene?
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08:49 <@fenn> close enough
08:51 < gradstudentbot> I did so much qPCR today.
08:52 <@fenn> omg gradstudentbot actually did something
08:52 < gradstudentbot> Let's pour a bunch of chemlights into a spinner flask and claim it's luminescent e.coli.
08:53 <@fenn> hey wasnt that yash's idea for the carlsbad lab demo?
08:54 <@fenn> (do they have a name yet?)
08:54 <@kanzure> biotechnbeyond
08:58 <@fenn> "i've been spending a lot of time in the pub. pubmed ,that is."
08:58 <@kanzure> ouch
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09:13 <@kanzure> ah man, i almost forgot about this paper
09:13 <@kanzure> http://creativemachines.cornell.edu/sites/default/files/Science09_Schmidt.pdf
09:14 <@kanzure> this is the one where they used symbolic regression to figure out natural laws like for pendulum motion
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09:16 <@fenn> symbolic regression is pure magic
09:17 <@kanzure> i usually fail to remember the exact relationship to genetic algorithm
09:17 <@kanzure> http://www.mafy.lut.fi/EcmiNL/older/ecmi35/node70.html
09:17 <@fenn> .title
09:17 < yoleaux> Symbolic regression - an overview
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09:17 <@kanzure> "While domain of EAs is of numerical nature (real, complex, integer, discrete), domain of symbolic regression is of functional nature, i.e. it consist of function set like (sin(), cos(), gamma(), MyFunction(),...) and so called terminal set (t, x, p, ...). From mix of both sets is then synthetised final program, which can be quite complicated in point of view of its structure.
09:18 <@kanzure> In the novadays there are three methods allowing to do that: genetic programming, grammar evolution and analytic programming."
09:18 <@kanzure> so basically.. manipulation of directed graphs that represent mathematical equations, or something.
09:19 < superkuh> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v492/n7427/full/492031a.html
09:19 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Nuclear%20energy%3A%20Thorium%20fuel%20has%20risks.pdf
09:19 <@kanzure> superkuh: what sdr things should i buy?
09:20 <@fenn> a usb tv tuner at least
09:21 < superkuh> Do you only want to receive?
09:21 < superkuh> If so, just an rtlsdr dongle with an R820T tuner.
09:21 <@kanzure> what about transmitting?
09:21 < superkuh> Otherwise I guess the BladeRF at around $400.
09:21 <@kanzure> i don't have any particular goals. i just feel a little geek shamed.
09:21 <@kanzure> what if i wanted to spend 10x more?
09:21 < superkuh> I don't know about that price range.
09:22 <@kanzure> okay. i heard an urban hacker legend about a friend of a friend of a friend who bought a military satellite dish off ebay for $2k or something. then he started to scan the night sky.
09:23 <@fenn> must be a big dish
09:23 <@kanzure> 3-5 feet
09:23 < superkuh> The Ettus USRP line is a bit more expensive and modular at ~$800. They have very good, established GNU Radio support. The BladeRF GNU Radio stuff is still beta.
09:23 <@kanzure> i think it would be fun to purchase one of those, let someone in here "own" it, but then do software timeshare stuff to let others control the hardware and do scans.
09:24 < superkuh> A lot of the cost would be in the antenna pointing hardware.
09:24 <@fenn> i wonder if phased array makes more sense
09:24 <@fenn> what's the inverse of beam forming called?
09:25 < superkuh> beam forming.
09:25 <@fenn> i'll beam form your beam form, whippersnapper
09:26 < superkuh> If you want to do a lot of array stuff look into Casper boards.
09:26 < superkuh> https://casper.berkeley.edu/
09:27 < superkuh> They have a mailing list that's fairly active as well.
09:28 <@fenn> anyway if you're capturing all the raw signals you can point the beam after the fact
09:28 <@fenn> maybe a dish has a higher gain?
09:29 < superkuh> And a pencil beam without interferometric confusion.
09:29 < superkuh> Before all the specialized cleaning algorithms array data is very dirty.
09:30 < superkuh> So I read...
09:30 <@kanzure> jblake was telling me yesterday that my plans to run aircrack-ng on sdr data were infeasible :|
09:30 < superkuh> I've never done UV image synthesis.
09:30 <@kanzure> needs signal -> adc -> fpga -> usb to linux box
09:30 <@kanzure> otherwise too slow for 802.11
09:31 < superkuh> The middle bit there is what all the BladeRF and USRP do. There's usually extra space on the fpga in them.
09:32 <@kanzure> are these user-modifiable fpgas?
09:32 < superkuh> Yes.
09:32 < superkuh> Explicitly.
09:32 <@kanzure> fascinating
09:32 < superkuh> There's a costlier BladeRF with an extra large fpga for $600.
09:32 <@fenn> how do you program the fpga?
09:33 <@fenn> (does anyone do MPGA or other soft architectures?)
09:33 < superkuh> That's beyond me. I just play with $10 usb dongles.
09:33 < superkuh> There is #bladerf here on freenode.
09:34 < superkuh> And in #gnuradio I bet a lot of USRP guys.
09:35 <@fenn> hm. apparently the concept has disappeared from the net. an MPGA is a virtualization of an FPGA so you don't need proprietary software tools to reconfigure the FPGA once it's been flashed
09:35 < gradstudentbot> Friends don't let friends go to super school.
09:35 <@fenn> also you can quickly reconfigure parts of it at runtime
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09:42 < delinquentme> ermerger
09:43 < delinquentme> {|:]
09:43 < delinquentme> ermberger^
09:46 <@fenn> make sense, you
09:48 < delinquentme> oh crap that wasnt supposed to be open face
09:48 < delinquentme> [{/\|:] *
09:48 < delinquentme> now with bacon
09:49 <@fenn> go learn regular expressions
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09:52 < delinquentme> b!tch Im a culinary grilled masterpiece chef flipper of burgers.
09:52 < delinquentme> fenn, you not a rails kid ja?
09:53 <@fenn> never touched it
09:58 <@fenn> direction of arrival estimation is the inverse of beamforming
10:15 <@kanzure> 10:07 <&iimarckus> mask-programmable gate array?
10:15 <@kanzure> 10:07 <&iimarckus> http://www.fpgacentral.com/pld-types/mpga-mask-programmable-gate-array
10:15 <@kanzure> 10:08 <&iimarckus> came across this, planning to look more closely at it when i get home and have access to some fpgas https://github.com/Wolfgang-Spraul/fpgatools
10:19 <@fenn> no, MPGA = meta FPGA, as described here http://web.archive.org/web/20050414203105/http://ce.et.tudelft.nl/~reinoud/mpga/README.html
10:23 <@fenn> of course one has to wonder how many turtles we can stack up
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10:34 < heath> i'm guessing somewhere someone has put together a list of possible things that can eventually be done with synthetic biology, anyone know of such a list?
10:35 <@fenn> "The newly declared human right of informational self-determination de:Informationelle Selbstbestimmung gives the right of prevent one's identity and personal data from disclosure to others, and also covers disclosure of locality as well" you kids better not be doing any unauthorized computation mmkay?
10:36 <@fenn> from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_time_location_system which would be pretty damn awesome to do with SDR
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10:38 <@fenn> heath: i doubt such a list exists because it's so broad in scope
10:38 <@fenn> like "things which can be done with electronics" covers half the internet
10:39 <@kanzure> "things that can be done with biology" includes the internet
10:39 <@fenn> a biological internet?
10:39 <@kanzure> huh? no i mean humans created the internet.
10:40 <@fenn> but the internet isn't implemented in biology
10:40 <@kanzure> neither is fossil fuels
10:40 <@kanzure> i am just being a douche about semantic scope
10:40 < gradstudentbot> So what's a credit score?
10:40 <@fenn> .meow
10:40 < yoleaux> http://moar.edgecats.net/cats/tumblr_lqemghdwXc1qbz2cio1_500.gif
10:42 < heath> i figure there's some blog post somewhere talking about the future of synthetic biology and the author had enough "imagine blah blah blah blah" comments that it turned into a list of projects
10:42 <@kanzure> that describes literally every synthetic biology paper ever
10:43 <@fenn> heath: i'd suggest reading some fiction by greg egan
10:44 <@kanzure> most biology fiction is pretty bad. greg egan is a little okay. but everything else is a disaster. even greg bear's bloodthing book.
10:45 <@fenn> chaff and teranesia
10:46 <@kanzure> biology scifi seems pretty hard to write
10:46 <@kanzure> unless you were focusing on diseases
10:47 < heath> will someone prease go through all of egan's books and make a list for me? :)
10:47 <@kanzure> no
10:47 < heath> kanzure: you've got this
10:47 < heath> you type faster than everyone here, i think your ideal for this task
10:49 < superkuh> Gregory Benford and David Brin's "Heart of the Comet" was written in the 1980s. It's biotech jargon and uses still hold up pretty well today.
10:49 <@fenn> heath: just read "chaff" it's not long: http://fennetic.net/irc/luminous.pdf
10:49 < superkuh> Peter Watt's "Rifters" series is good too.
10:50 < superkuh> And Paul J McAuley's "The Quiet War" series.
10:50 < superkuh> All of them depend heavily on biotechnology.
10:51 <@fenn> oh damn that file isn't complete.. nevermind
10:51 < superkuh> I only read Greg Bears' "Blood Music" a couple weeks ago. If you just stop 1/3rd through it is okay.
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10:52 <@fenn> i liked "the helix and the sword" ... when i was in middle school :\
10:58 < heath> http://io9.com/5049810/announcing-the-winners-of-the-io9-mad-science-contest
10:58 < heath> "Jonathan Cline, a software engineer, developed a biological breathalyzer system made of bacteria. Instead of measuring alcohol levels, however, his system measures the metabolic state of "ketosis" in a person's body - this is the state where the body starts burning fat and turning it into energy. Ketosis is induced by the Atkins diet as well as caloric restriction. "
10:58 < heath> go jonathan__
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11:01 <@kanzure> software engineer.. haha
11:01 <@kanzure> also, shame on any of you for (1) reading io9, and (2) submitting anything to io9
11:02 <@kanzure> 10:51 < superkuh> I only read Greg Bears' "Blood Music" a couple weeks ago. If you just stop 1/3rd through it is okay.
11:02 <@kanzure> that's hilarious. i didn't stop. maybe i should try stopping next time.
11:03 <@fenn> quitting is for quitters!
11:04 < superkuh> Charles Stross' "Scratch Monkey" has some uniquely disturbing biological epigenetic weapons in it.
11:05 < superkuh> But it is not exactly hard scifi. Too far future.
11:05 <@kanzure> yeah, but the problem with stross is that the way he writes is self-congratulatory or something
11:06 <@kanzure> 14:09 < user_> kanzure_: ian is displeased with stross for pandering
11:06 <@kanzure> 14:10 < kanzure_> is that what stross is doing? pandering?
11:06 <@kanzure> 14:11 < user_> some of it, pandering to nerd desire to feel good about themselves for catching a conceptual reference to ideas of the sort that might have been favorably mentioned in wired
11:06 <@kanzure> 14:14 < kanzure_> maybe we could collectively send stross a letter asking him nicely to stop doing that and to please put more effort into writing
11:06 < superkuh> I have no problem with it. Concepts > story for me.
11:06 <@kanzure> 12:07 < kanzure_> blah, the first few sentences are just terrible http://www.goldengryphon.com/Stross-Concrete.html
11:07 <@kanzure> 12:07 < kanzure_> "It's even worse when you're sleeping the sleep that follows a pitcher of iced margueritas in the basement of the Dog's Bollocks, with a chaser of nachos and a tequila slammer or three for dessert"
11:07 <@kanzure> 12:07 < kanzure_> who cares charlie, we get it, you know words about foods
11:07 <@kanzure> superkuh: well, okay. fair enough.
11:09 <@kanzure> i think orion's arm still has a shot at doing something great with its content
11:10 < superkuh> I wish I could buy new scifi books without DRM. I've been trying to get my hands on Baxter/Pratchett's  "The Long War" but I refuse to install the ebook retailers proprietary software to get the ID/keys required to use with Calibre to rip the books out of the DRM containers.
11:10 <@kanzure> fenn: following up..
11:10 <@kanzure> 10:52 <&iimarckus> interesting idea, but a little pointless given the mpga itself can't be implemented with open tools
11:10 <@kanzure> 10:53 <&iimarckus> i mean, i see the point, but imo time would be better spent in RE or something
11:10 <@kanzure> 10:56 <&iimarckus> might be useful for academia, kind of like MMIX
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12:14 < heath> "if you're working with pathogens, you're a terrorist" --genspace
12:15 < heath> grr
12:17 <@kanzure> "fuck doctors"
12:23 < heath> these guys are now terrorist: http://2008.igem.org/Team:Heidelberg
12:24 < heath> http://w3techs.com/blog/entry/nginx_just_became_the_most_used_web_server_among_the_top_1000_websites
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12:49  * heath is looking for something simple to build with biobricks
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14:05 <@kanzure> engelbart is dead
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14:53 < klafka> yeah i saw :(
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15:03 < ParahSailin> what js magic is used in gmail for example, that triggers the file browser dialogue when you click the paperclip
15:03 < ParahSailin> giving a "click" event to a hidden input[type=file] doesnt do that
15:07 < ParahSailin> ah nevermind i got it
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16:37 < delinquentme> ParahSailin, did you sort it?
16:37 < delinquentme> $('#id_name').trigger("click")  is something you can use
16:37 < nmz787_> paperbot: http://pubs.rsc.org/en/Content/ArticleLanding/2012/LC/c1lc20667b
16:37 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Converting%20steady%20laminar%20flow%20to%20oscillatory%20flow%20through%20a%20hydroelasticity%20approach%20at%20microscales.pdf
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17:25 < nmz787_> paperbot: http://iopscience.iop.org/0960-1317/19/4/047002/pdf/0960-1317_19_4_047002.pdf
17:25 < paperbot> no translator available, raw dump: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/a7edf499d3f3551e519904d5c2561d9.pdf
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21:59 < jonathan__> things are blowing up in the sky
21:59 < jonathan__> it looks like WW III
21:59 < jonathan__> someone call the nsa
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22:08 < jonathan__> this should be fenn's  http://www.greasegasandglory.com/media/catalog/product/cache/3/small_image/245x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/g/a/garage-built-fuck-factories-pint-glass-set-t.jpg
22:09 < jonathan__> this one too http://www.greasegasandglory.com/media/catalog/product/cache/3/image/328x398/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/g/a/garage-built-fuck-factories-helmet.jpg
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23:05 < superkuh> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/v9/n7/full/nphys2677.html
23:05 < paperbot> HTTP 401 unauthorized http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/v9/n7/pdf/nphys2677.pdf
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23:25 <@kanzure> i am back in austin
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23:39 < heath> "This year we have several project plans which, if they don't self-assemble into green goo and eat the molecular biology building, should be fairly amusing. "
23:39 < heath> http://2006.igem.org/wiki/index.php/UT_Austin_2005
23:40 <@kanzure> that was when anselm did the photobacteria plate stuff
23:40 < heath> it looks like in 2004 everyone just made a lot of progress in producing parts for the biobricks library
23:40 <@kanzure> biobricks are worthless
23:41 <@kanzure> when are you going to get over this phase
23:41 <@kanzure> and get back to doing things
23:41 < heath> i'm going through each of the years right now creating a csv with the headers: year, project, devices, tags, uri, team
23:41 < heath> it's a phase, it shouldn't past tomorrow
23:42 < heath> ...+last past...
23:42 <@kanzure> why?
23:42 <@kanzure> half of their projects are lies
23:42 < jonathan__> more than half
23:42 <@kanzure> the other half will only work if you have a team of 20 students dicking around with things that don't work
23:42 < jonathan__> 90%
23:42 < heath> that's sad
23:42 < jonathan__> they are 'theoretical designs' not real designs
23:42 < heath> maybe BioMOD has different results
23:43 < jonathan__> it is an applications idea generation contest
23:43 < heath> http://biomod.net/
23:43 < heath> .title
23:43 < yoleaux> BIOMOD | International Biomolecular Design Competition
23:43 <@kanzure> the primary purpose of biobricks and igem is a marketing campaign
23:43 <@kanzure> notice how nobody has actually been able to get biobricks outside of the igem competition
23:43 < jonathan__> it's more than that
23:43 <@kanzure> also notice how there's only 2 publicly available biobricks
23:43 < jonathan__> it is a tool to get biologists to think differently
23:44 <@kanzure> and by "available" i mean "they wont ship it to you, but they might claim you have a right to use it, maybe, you dirty fucking communist"
23:44 < jonathan__> well, thats also marketing campaign
23:44 < heath> jonathan__: do you mean put them (biologists) on a correct or incorrect track?
23:44 < jonathan__> it's not that hard to get biobricks jeez all it takes is a paper envelope
23:44 < jonathan__> biologists do not think in terms of reusable parts
23:44 <@kanzure> jonathan__: all the reports on diybio seem to indicate that nobody can get them
23:45 < jonathan__> well that's a low standard to set isnt it
23:45 <@kanzure> uh? that's what we're talking about.
23:45 <@kanzure> "outside of igem/university/the marketing campaign"
23:45 < jonathan__> i wouldnt trust anyone on diybio to be able to tie their shoelaces
23:45 <@kanzure> it also feels like it's just a campaign to get drew/ruttberg/others a cushy job.. not sure.
23:46 < jonathan__> one angle is changing the bio educational path too
23:46 < jonathan__> move the applications tech up front instead of at the backend
23:46 < jonathan__> if it does that, then it is worthy of the hype
23:46 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
23:47 < jonathan__> do you want me to get a copy of a bunch of biobricks to prove it can be done?  I'd rather not go thru the effort.  it's just pieces of paper it's not like it is "so" difficult to get access
23:48 <@kanzure> i didn't say access i said copies
23:48 <@kanzure> wait i don't know what i said
23:48 < jonathan__> from everything everyone says on diybio it's also tough to get lab access
23:48 <@kanzure> but yeah access is walk into a lab while they aren't looking, no big deal
23:48 < jonathan__> how long did it take me to get lab access in austin?  one day.
23:49 <@kanzure> i don't think he likes me
23:49 < jonathan__> what counts is getting things done.
23:49 <@kanzure> not anymore
23:49 <@kanzure> i meant, as a continuation of my last message
23:49 < jonathan__> sure you can't get "real official book" of biobricks
23:50 < jonathan__> that's like saying, I can't get a copy of apple's iphone sdk without registering with them and agreeing to their license agreement.
23:50 < jonathan__> it wouldn't take you more than an hour to download the exact same sdk from a torrent.
23:50 <@kanzure> well, you don't have to do that actually
23:50 < jonathan__> since biobricks are open source there isn't even any licensing agreement anyway
23:50 <@kanzure> saurik was kind enough to circumvent that process for you so that you can compile on debian and other linuxes
23:51 < jonathan__> exactly
23:51 <@kanzure> uh, open source is a license
23:51 <@kanzure> no, that's not the same as the torrent you mentioned
23:51 < jonathan__> you don't even need biobricks to build with biobricks
23:51 <@kanzure> i am going to sleep this is painful
23:51 < jonathan__> point being, no one really wants them because they don't work anyway
23:52 < jonathan__> so what's the purpose of getting copies of them
23:52 <@kanzure> to make heath shut the fuck up
23:52 <@kanzure> isn't that obvious?
23:52 < jonathan__> that won't work
23:52 < jonathan__> it's like trying to convince a script kiddie not to be a script kiddie and there's more to life than visual basic.  that doesnt work either you know.
23:53 < jonathan__> let the bygones be bygones
23:54 < jonathan__> innovation can still happen with biobricks if the right person comes along to really spend the time on it.
23:54 <@kanzure> once upon a time, i was convinced to stop using visual basic and to stop calling myself a l33t hax0r
23:54 < jonathan__> who better to spend time then some indie hacker dude with no academic deadline or biz politics driving product cycles
23:55 < jonathan__> who did the convincing?
23:55 <@kanzure> an actual hacker
23:56 <@kanzure> 'night
23:57 -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:58 < jonathan__> the difference is... there are no "actual dna hackers"... if there were.. then they could advertise a working sdk.   until then, biobricks is just another lame mostly-non-working sdk.  in essence.   Partner with a lab and get a copy and play with it, maybe it will improve.
23:58 < heath> morning time lupfantomo, are you located in/around st.louis?
--- Log closed Thu Jul 04 00:00:15 2013