--- Log opened Sat Jul 13 00:00:00 2013
--- Day changed Sat Jul 13 2013
00:00 < nmz787> i conect my android phone to my laptop all the time
00:00 < nmz787> so does kanzure
00:00 < delinquentme> nmz787, so look at the example of the server and hardware firewall
00:00 < delinquentme> what does a *mature* stack in these connections look like
00:01 < delinquentme> hareware to hardware linux systems
00:01 < nmz787> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automation_protocols
00:01 < delinquentme> what operating systems do kukas run?
00:01 < delinquentme> OH perfect example
00:01 < delinquentme> what does the operating system of tesla look like?
00:01 < nmz787> haven't heard of kuka or tesla
00:02 < delinquentme> 1 its not USB connections
00:02 < nmz787> huh?
00:02 < delinquentme> http://www.kuka.com/
00:02 < delinquentme> http://www.teslamotors.com/
00:02 < nmz787> ok?
00:02 < delinquentme> so I'd love to know what some of the best practices are when it comes to these
00:02 < delinquentme> so like a tesla factory right?
00:02 < jonathan____> i2c is a master-slave protocol by definition fyi
00:02 < nmz787> it depends
00:03 < nmz787> that is a much different questioon 'linux to linux brah'
00:03 < delinquentme> they run tons of6 DOF arms
00:03 < delinquentme> nmz787, you're totally right.
00:03 < delinquentme> I meant a linux to linux "mature" system
00:03 < nmz787> there's tons of electrical noise, so you need something from that list
00:03 < delinquentme> and I know the terms are bleh
00:03 < nmz787> rs485 is where i'd start
00:03 < nmz787> ethernet is easy
00:04 < nmz787> and noise resistant at least in long runs
00:04 < nmz787> so probably locally in shorter runs
00:04 < jonathan____> irda
00:04 < nmz787> ethernet can be upto 1Gbit today, amazon.com
00:05 < delinquentme> nmz787, not bad I think thats a solid spot
00:05 < delinquentme> so OK two linux boxes, assumed ethernet to ethernet
00:05 < delinquentme> does that use http?
00:05 < delinquentme> say we've got a system isolated from the outside world
00:05 < nmz787> doesnt need to
00:06 < delinquentme> we can totally chunk down http
00:06 < delinquentme> BUT whether to do so or keep http ... i suppose
00:06 < delinquentme> matters on who is programming the operations
00:06 < nmz787> 'The Hypertext Transfer Protocol (HTTP) is an application protocol for distributed, collaborative, hypermedia information systems. '
00:06 < delinquentme> so like my computer to a raspberry pi
00:06 < nmz787> are you xferring hypermedia?
00:07 < delinquentme> nmz787, so I dont *need* to transfer hypermedia
00:07 < delinquentme> wtf even is hyper media/
00:07 < nmz787> you're too young, eh
00:07 < nmz787> never used hypercard?
00:07 < delinquentme> ahhhhhhhh
00:07 < nmz787> that was, like the hipster's programming IDE
00:07 < gradstudentbot> That's definitely a Nature paper.
00:07 < delinquentme> ok so
00:08 < nmz787> well you're pretty hipster
00:08 < delinquentme> http seems like a way of handling threaded operations
00:08 < nmz787> more than kanzure would like I think
00:08 < nmz787> always postin news links
00:08 < delinquentme> IE async operations
00:08 < delinquentme> true!
00:08 < delinquentme> but so what im seeing from
00:08 < delinquentme> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypermedia
00:09 < delinquentme> essentially is " async "
00:09 < delinquentme> no0?
00:09 < jonathan____> use nfs
00:09 < jonathan____> mount the filesystem over ethernet then it looks local
00:09 < nmz787> lol
00:09 < delinquentme> intertwine to create a generally non-linear medium of information.
00:09 < delinquentme> jonathan____, I mean thats interesting
00:09 < nmz787> delinquentme: you haven't told us your secret plan, give it up and stop beating around my bush
00:10 < delinquentme> because in that case were talking about a *very* low level explicit connection
00:10 < jonathan____> standard method of developing using embedded linux systems like raspberry pie in the sky is to mount the baord's filesystem on the main pc with nfs
00:10 < jonathan____> otherwise use ssh and scp
00:10 < nmz787> jonathan____: that's too practical
00:10 < jonathan____> if no ethernet then use serial, 3 wires needed only
00:10 < nmz787> jonathan____: you should have elaborated on irda more
00:11 < jonathan____> over serial you run a tty and rsh
00:11 < nmz787> use morse code
00:11 < nmz787> that stack is mature as fuck
00:11 < jonathan____> irda is only if both machines are in same room..  linux irda stack is ok i think but been years since I looked
00:11 < nmz787> fiber?
00:11 < jonathan____> try to find irda hardware these days.. umm mmmm
00:12 < jonathan____> use the phone then, get analog modems on both machines and call one
00:12 < jonathan____> use uucp
00:12 < nmz787> delinquentme: really your answer is choose a protocol that has a decent API/structure for your application, choose a protocol that has a circuit that's appropriately noise-rejecting for your application
00:13 < nmz787> i actually want a modem for my android phone
00:13 < nmz787> so i can get dialup wherever
00:13 < jonathan____> there are soft modems
00:13 < nmz787> and modulate my calls to my girl with crypto
00:13 < jonathan____> fax decode for example
00:13 < delinquentme> nmz787, I think you're hitting on a big portion of it  here
00:13 < delinquentme> im not entirely sure on the noise
00:14 < jonathan____> noise is either wide band or narrow band
00:14 < nmz787> delinquentme: this is why there are a bunch of protocols, because there are a bunch of real world situations where they work 'best'
00:14 < delinquentme> nmz787, examples?
00:14 < nmz787> (or some dude ripped off the circuit and hijacked the API and changed the name)
00:15 < nmz787> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automation_protocols
00:15 < jonathan____> CAN bus is very noise immune
00:15 < delinquentme> how does an embedded system differ from an OS?
00:15 < jonathan____> differential voltage systems are more noise immune
00:16 < jonathan____> rs-232 is noise immune since it runs +/- 24V
00:16 < nmz787>  delinquentme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_(computing)#Examples_of_external_computer_buses
00:16 < jonathan____> that's a q for a kiddie site like stackoverflow
00:17 < nmz787> delinquentme: an embedded system is... a system of hardware
00:17 < nmz787> an OS runs on hardware
00:17 < jonathan____> embedded kinda means it has no keyboard or mouse or monitor.
00:18 < jonathan____> as in, it's embedded in your car and you dont see it
00:18 < nmz787> if you gut a laptop and boot a router from a USB drive, it would be 'embedded'
00:18 < jonathan____> or, it's embedded in your wall and you don't see it
00:18 < nmz787> well, yeah maybe my last example would be exploded
00:18 < nmz787> not embedded
00:18 < jonathan____> or, it's embedded in your heart as a pace maker and you dont see it
00:18 < nmz787> i could take apart my router (which has an embedded ARM processor runnin linux)
00:19 < nmz787> and it would be exploded embedded
00:19 < nmz787> (i just made that up)
00:19 < gradstudentbot> You know they keep the mice in better conditions than us.
00:19 < jonathan____> there is linux.  and then there is embedded linux.  and then there is the hell which is caused by both of them.
00:19 < nmz787> delinquentme: embedded generally is more purpose-tuned
00:20 < nmz787> otherwise you call hardware general purpose
00:21 < delinquentme> ok minor gear switch
00:21 < nmz787> whew
00:21 < delinquentme> say the most integrated lab system out there
00:22 < delinquentme> what governs it
00:22 < delinquentme> integrated = automated
00:22 < delinquentme> sorry wrong term
00:22 < nmz787> if you ask the whole world, most people being religious, the common answer might be God
00:22 < nmz787> he is the ultimate scientist
00:22 < nmz787> the ultimate grad student
00:22 < delinquentme> ok so its going to be like
00:22 < delinquentme> some pharma
00:23 < delinquentme> some manufacturer
00:23 < delinquentme> orrr
00:23 < nmz787> honestly, it's a toss up
00:23 < delinquentme> i THINK ... tesla might b e a good example
00:23 < nmz787> go to the website of company X
00:23 < nmz787> look for downloads
00:23 < nmz787> then dissassemble
00:23 < delinquentme> 1) they're going to have a ton of different mfgs robots
00:23 < delinquentme> doing tons of different things
00:23 < jonathan____> the name is cavro
00:24 < gradstudentbot> Who got mustard on my cell culture?
00:24 < jonathan____> robots are built from modular units
00:24 < delinquentme> jonathan____, not bad
00:24 < delinquentme> so yeah but thats just one hardware component
00:24 < jonathan____> the main manufacturer was cavro and many companies copied their command sets
00:24 < jonathan____> therefore many robots today use cavro type commands
00:24 < jonathan____> that is any motor component
00:24 < delinquentme> jonathan____, what about when we've got a tecan freedom evo ( running a number of cavro components ) ... connected up to some system which governs how they interconnect
00:24 < delinquentme> MAYE
00:24 < jonathan____> any pump. any liquid dispenser.
00:24 < delinquentme> MAYBE
00:25 < delinquentme> the solution is a wholly functional *node*
00:25 < delinquentme> which handles evented input and outputs
00:25 < jonathan____> freedom evo can accept cavro commands for all parts.
00:26 < delinquentme> jonathan____, is cavro a protocol?
00:26 < jonathan____> which is why my perl robotics software can still run on evo
00:26 < delinquentme> i thought it was a grand of hardware
00:26 < jonathan____> cavro was a manufacturer who was very popular and had a command set (aka protocol) that became popular and others adopted it
00:26 < delinquentme> erm. grand = brand
00:26 < jonathan____> so now it can be called "cavro comamnds"
00:26 < delinquentme> cavro was a company pre tecan?
00:27 < jonathan____> y
00:27 < delinquentme> link
00:27 < gradstudentbot> Well, it looks better if you see it through a UV scope.
00:27 < jonathan____> tecan did a lot of acquisitions
00:27 < jonathan____> link?
00:27 < delinquentme> i need documentation of how this happened
00:27 < delinquentme> yeah like the cavro website
00:27 < jonathan____> um do your own damn homework who cares
00:28 < jonathan____> often there is no documentation formally of "industry standards"
00:28 < jonathan____> it is just accepted practice in industry
00:28 < jonathan____> robo automation is a niche industry and many things are not formalized lke for example the IETF publishes RFCs for internet
00:29 < gradstudentbot> Well, you can't guarantee that.
00:29 < jonathan____> robo companies just build something so it can work with their system, maybe it works with others, it competes with others, one model becomes popular, that's it
00:29 < jonathan____> look on ebay for cavro pump
00:33 < delinquentme> IEFT?
00:33 < delinquentme> Indigenous Education Foundation of Tanzania
00:33 < delinquentme> jonathan____, i gotta get water
00:33 < delinquentme> talk
00:33 < delinquentme> Yes i get the second part
00:33 < delinquentme> however there is some level at which they decide that they need to support inter-machine integration
00:34 < jonathan____> no there isnt
00:34 < jonathan____> "they"
00:34 < jonathan____> it's like a car, every car model is slightly different, sometimes standards emerge but not always
00:35 < jonathan____> there's no "they" saying :  ok every part on this car must talk reasonably to other parts with standard blah blah
00:35 < jonathan____> that is rare, typically only happens when a real talented dude lays down a hammer because business has started to sink
00:36 < jonathan____> otherwise divisions are happy to produce their own stuff, none of which talks to anyting else in a reasonable way
00:36 < jonathan____> that is industry
00:36 < delinquentme> jonathan____, were talking about the factory which builds the cars
00:36 < delinquentme> so there are 6 dof arms ....
00:36 < delinquentme> but clearly the 6 dof arms need to communicate with the doors of the painting area
00:36 < jonathan____> they buy 6 identical arms
00:37 < jonathan____> they don't buy 1 from bosch and one from catepillar and one from hundai
00:37 < delinquentme> perhaps the group of 6 dof arms runs on an event from a single server
00:37 < delinquentme> tag throws off ... 4 arms go through motions ... alert server when its done
00:37 < jonathan____> labview may be your answer
00:38 < delinquentme> but like there needs to be communication between non-same-manufacturer systems
00:38 < delinquentme> maybe!
00:38 < delinquentme> but IDK if say tesla is running lab view
00:38 < jonathan____> there are sdk's for different systems
00:38 < jonathan____> tecan has their software which has plugins for different equip
00:38 < delinquentme> im guessing its an evented server with c++ / java and linux
00:38 < jonathan____> doubt it
00:39 < delinquentme> maybe over ethernet
00:39 < jonathan____> doubt it
00:39 < jonathan____> ethernet is not used in industrial environment.  CAN is used
00:39 < delinquentme> jonathan____,  they don't buy 1 from bosch and one from catepillar and one from hundai\
00:39 < delinquentme> you are correct
00:39 < delinquentme> link to CAN plz
00:39 < gradstudentbot> I remember the paper, I just don't remember the details.
00:39 < delinquentme> but 6 dof arms are of the same "class" of achines
00:39 < jonathan____> dude find your own damn links this isn't stackoverflow
00:39 < delinquentme> machines**
00:40 < delinquentme> but clearly we can see a separation of class between doors to a paint shop
00:40 < delinquentme> and 6 dof arms
00:40 < delinquentme> SO
00:40 < delinquentme> how do those talk to one another
00:41 < jonathan____> CAN bus
00:41 < delinquentme> and say what about ... 6 dof arms to paintshop doors ... to say a curing furnace
00:41 < delinquentme> yah i foun dit
00:41 < delinquentme> found it
00:41 < jonathan____> GPIB
00:42 < juri_> i2c can survive long runs, if you wanted to make it all one machine.
00:42 < jonathan____> now go to the damn library and look up some books on industrial automation already
00:42 < juri_> er. i2s even.
00:42 < jonathan____> i2s has a synchronized clock so it wont run over long distances
00:42 < delinquentme> jonathan____, your first example was  a p2p non host system
00:42 < delinquentme> and the second was a physical style of connection
00:43 < jonathan____> ?
00:43 < delinquentme> I'd put my money on a MASSIVE integration operation having a single host running all the events
00:43 < jonathan____> you mean CAN?
00:43 < delinquentme> yes CAN is a p2p non host communication
00:43 < jonathan____> CAN is either master-slave or master-master
00:44 < jonathan____> "single host" != "p2p"
00:44 < delinquentme> I'm saying that any big integration will probably be a one-to-many host operation
00:44 < jonathan____> ok well now I'm saying that I dont know what the heck you are trying to figure out anyways
00:44 < jonathan____> I'm saying the world is round. so?
00:45 < nmz787> delinquentme: so what?
00:45 < jonathan____> what makes a master a master or a slave a slave.  well there's always a grey area of where to put diff types of intelligence
00:46 < nmz787> delinquentme: none of this matters unless you tell us why it matters
00:46 < nmz787> we're not accomplishing anything at any decent rate here
00:46 < jonathan____> engineers always go back & forth on "should we make this part the smart one, or this other part hte smart one?"
00:46 < nmz787> I gave you links to CAN and I2C an hour ago
00:46 < jonathan____> "should we put the motion sensor in the arm, or in the master controller?"
00:46 < nmz787> ok myabe 30 ins
00:46 < nmz787> mins
00:46 < jonathan____> I'm guessing he is smoking pot and contemplating his navel
00:47 < nmz787> probably in today's world, each robot has it's own 1GHz processor
00:47 < jonathan____> "wow man, it's like, there's a CENTRAL MASSIVELY INTEGRATED CONTROLLER, man!"
00:47 < nmz787> however it connects is up to the dude who ordered that day
00:47 < nmz787> as all the companies probably offer a few interfaces
00:47 < jonathan____> i'm betting it's unique for each assembly line.
00:48 < jonathan____> oh, this assembly line has the old paint sprayer machine, it needs controller X.  this other line hasthe newer one, so it needs controller Y.
00:48 < nmz787> or there's a company for every interface
00:48 < nmz787> :P
00:48 < nmz787> but yeah, delinquentme , why does it matter
00:48 < nmz787> what are you trying to innovate in connecting shit?
00:48 < jonathan____> don't worry cause it's all like P2P massively integrated on linux man, like massively parallel multiplexed man
00:49 < nmz787> you spend another $30-3000 dollars (depending on how stupid and gullibe you, the company is) and just add more workers to the system
00:49 < nmz787> integrate your integrations
00:49 < jonathan____> one time I was in the undergrad lab and this 15 year old kid comes in with his mom, and everyone is giving him shit like "wow you're in college?  wow how old are you?" and I was the only one to really listen to what the hell he was talking about, finally he says, "I have an idea for a new type of logic gate which uses minimal power"
00:50 < nmz787> nice
00:50 < jonathan____> then the kid says, "you see, it uses magnetic flux to switch, which doesnt cause any conduction, and this is much better than a FET which will cause current to flow"
00:50 < jonathan____> or at least, he tried to say that.
00:50 < nmz787> hawt damn
00:50 < jonathan____> what did he totally 100% fail to see?
00:50 < nmz787> dang
00:50 < nmz787> the coil uses power?
00:51 < jonathan____> it's a genius idea, but what is like the huge huge major failure?
00:51 < nmz787> earth's flux?
00:51 < jonathan____> that he completely totally overlooked and was probably like "wow man like massively integrated parallel multiplexing man!"
00:51 < gradstudentbot> You know they keep the mice in better conditions than us.
00:52 < jonathan____> magnetic force is like 1000 magnitude less force than electron charge.   someone translate that into physics undergrad speak cuz it's been too long for me.
00:52 < jonathan____> anyways I had to burst his bubble
00:52 < jonathan____> and then he just kind of said, "oh."
00:52 < nmz787> some r^3 shit?
00:52 < jonathan____> um it's not r^3 it's the physical constant
00:52 < nmz787> or 1/r^something
00:52 < nmz787> henries?
00:53 < jonathan____> it's the flux constant vs. the e charge
00:53 < jonathan____> well hell, why'd it take so long to find higgs?  cause the damn constant is soooo small...
00:53 < nmz787> i never took undergrad physics, not yet!
00:53 < jonathan____> anways
00:54 < jonathan____> I guess his mom got the idea that he didn't like that conclusion too much and she said real quick, "I think it's time to go home, you're tired right? it's been a long day" and whisked him out of there
00:54 < nmz787> his answer should have been, nah the gate will just be 1000X smaller
00:54 < jonathan____> I tried to offer him some textbooks and invite him back anytime he wanted, but I never saw the dude again
00:54 < nmz787> there's plenty of room down there!
00:54 < jonathan____> anyways that's a true story
00:55 < nmz787> so he was in school with you?
00:55 < nmz787> or like, he took a night class here and there?
00:55 < nmz787> or just got into a lab you werent in?
00:55 < nmz787> lol
00:55 < jonathan____> yeah he was actually going to college classes.. I forget what major, def not in EE dept
00:55 < jonathan____> maybe he was a math major or something
00:55 < nmz787> hmm
00:55 < jonathan____> but his mom apparently "found" the undergrad EE lab so he could come in and ask his question and maybe she thought he'd find some friends
00:56 < nmz787> hmm
00:56 < jonathan____> instead, a bunch of peeps giving him pressure about "wow you're so young" and bullshit like that
00:56 < jonathan____> last thing he probably wanted to hear...   he probably just wanted everyone to be chill and shoot the technie nerdie talk with him
00:56 < nmz787> huh, well i guess his mom sucks for not bringing him back or taking your text book advice
00:56 < jonathan____> yea she was kind of nervous overprotective type
00:57 < jonathan____> like "oh no poor billy is overwhelmed"
00:57 < nmz787> uh oh, time for your medication
00:57 < jonathan____> i mean, why does mom even need to take him, he's 15 he can find it
00:57 < jonathan____> maybe he was younger.. I forget
00:57 < jonathan____> I think he was in his 2nd year of college
00:58 < jonathan____> probably all his friends too busy playing Magic or whatever lol
00:58 < nmz787> i dunno, i plan on having kids someday
00:58 < nmz787> it seems like it would be a weird thing to go through
00:59 < nmz787> from them depending on you to some time later them riding off on a dirt bike
00:59 < nmz787> or something
00:59 < jonathan____> well lets see...   go to college early or live thru high school eh first option please
00:59 < nmz787> i plan on shoving information at my kids non-stop during any TV time
01:00 < nmz787> i'm not sure how happy that will make them
01:00 < jonathan____> dont even buy a tv
01:00 < nmz787> but i can't really think they would distinguish Cosmos from tellytubbycrap
01:00 < delinquentme> jonathan____, sorry im caught up in the massive integration part
01:00 < nmz787> whatever kids watch these days
01:00 < nmz787> nah TV is good
01:00 < delinquentme> that preempts the ability to make this switch usable?
01:01 < nmz787> i mean, the actual hardware
01:01 < jonathan____> no need to watch educational tv nowadays, just go online for that
01:01 < nmz787> well yeah
01:01 < nmz787> queue up MIT courseware for the infant
01:01 < nmz787> i wonder how long it would take to watch all of current opencourseware
01:02 < jonathan____> parents I know who say their kids have been home schooled always say the same thing "when they went to high school finally, they were so much ahead of everyone else"
01:02 < nmz787> .wa hours of opencourseware
01:02 < jonathan____> well DUH
01:02 < yoleaux> nmz787: Sorry, no result!
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01:03 < jonathan____> only reason to go to school is to talk to girls basically, otherwise forget it
01:03 < delinquentme> talk to?
01:03 < gradstudentbot> The paper was rejected.
01:03 < jonathan____> use a p2p protocol
01:03 < nmz787> huh, i can't find the total num hours of opencourseware
01:03 < delinquentme> ohhhh
01:03 < delinquentme> ic2 now
01:06 < nmz787> well it seems like there are more than a few years of online college video material
01:06 < jonathan____> yes it's awesome
01:06 < nmz787> i wonder if streaming it all to an infant would be OK
01:06 < jonathan____> just waiting till I can get a phd online lol
01:06 < nmz787> like, non-violent stuff
01:06 < nmz787> like all the math stuff
01:06 < nmz787> just on repeat
01:06 < jonathan____> well i bet kids could easily learn 4 languages by 12 yo
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01:07 < nmz787> communicate to the child only with math
01:07 < nmz787> hmm
01:07 < jonathan____> stream into the verbal cortex first maybe lol
01:07 < nmz787> just pulse some digital logic at it
01:07 < nmz787> modem
01:07 < jonathan____> internet really has simplified language study
01:08 < nmz787> i'm sure if the right setup could be figured out, you could train humans to do some really cool electronic glue logic
01:08 < nmz787> teach it irda
01:09 < nmz787> obv that's super low bandwidth
01:09 < jonathan____> eeg
01:10 < nmz787> 'daddy wants me to be an organ donor when i grow up!'
01:11 < nmz787> 'daddy says i'd make a great organ donor when i grow up!'
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01:27 < delinquentme> BCL2 > stress-induced autophagy
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05:57 < cathalgarvey> Anyone here familiar with paperbot's more recent code?
05:57 < cathalgarvey> Specifically: what is the environment variable "SCIHUB_PASSWORD"?
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06:10 <@kanzure> cathalgarvey: scihub requires a password
06:10 <@kanzure> cathalgarvey: i had to blackmail the sci-hub.org owner to get a deal for my ip address
06:10 <@kanzure> cathalgarvey: you can safely not provide it
06:11 <@kanzure> nmz787: i dunno if vince does bitcoins. but probably he will pay you via paypal. 8 years ago i paid him to do orchestral composition and recordings for a few video games i was making. and that was paypal.
06:12 < cathalgarvey> @kanzure So if you don't provide a password environment variable and it still works.. what's the point?
06:13 < cathalgarvey> i.e. if I wanted to deplay paperbot using the Scihub API, what's stopping me right now, lacking a SCIHUB_PASSWORD?
06:15 < cathalgarvey> i.e. this is the commit immediately prior to the environment variable stuff, and it doesn't seem to mention cookies at all: https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot/blob/08927457b6802daac7a4efd3f0d5c4eabc3e25cb/modules/scihub.py#L12
06:15 < cathalgarvey> So, what's the advantage of a sci-hub cookie?
06:19 < nsh> sweet sweet saccharine calories
06:21 <@kanzure> cathalgarvey: the scihub cookie is not my fault
06:21 <@kanzure> cathalgarvey: the sci-hub.org person is fucking nuts
06:21 <@kanzure> cathalgarvey: punched a hole in a firewall with paperbot's ip address, and then also wants that cookie to be present
06:22 < cathalgarvey> Oh I'm not complaining, just wondering whether it's necessary to refactor scihub.py into a terminal client
06:22 < cathalgarvey> I can understand him being paranoid because he's sort of spitting in the eyes of big copyright here
06:22 <@kanzure> cathalgarvey: it probably works for you because you're not in the US
06:22 <@kanzure> cathalgarvey: sci-hub.org is blocking US ip addresses
06:22 < cathalgarvey> I haven't tested whether it works for me
06:23 <@kanzure> 06:12 < cathalgarvey> @kanzure So if you don't provide a password environment variable and it still works.. what's the point?
06:23 <@kanzure> make up your mind :(
06:23 < cathalgarvey> but if it's specifically anti-US, that'd fit my hypothesis that he's just paranoid of Big Copyright, all right
06:23 < cathalgarvey> Sorry if that appeared adversarial, I was just wondering what the cookie was for
06:23 <@kanzure> he's already getting emails from elsevier
06:23 <@kanzure> paypal account was frozen
06:24 <@kanzure> i was able to transfer his funds to bitcoins before that happened
06:24 < cathalgarvey> Hahaha
06:24 < cathalgarvey> hence your leverage
06:24 <@kanzure> no, my leverage is identity blackmail
06:24 < cathalgarvey> Although... I'll leave it to you to figure out that having said that on a publicly logged irc channel puts you in a legal gray area..
06:25 < cathalgarvey> Cool, will try to refactor and see what happens without the environment variable/cookies
06:25 < cathalgarvey> Need a nice terminal client for getting my PLoS papers, don't you know
06:25 < cathalgarvey> :)
06:27 <@kanzure> cathalgarvey: if you are going to be doing some minor work on paperbot, it would be exceedingly cool if you could split paperbot into two parts.. first part is something like, the phenny/irc junk. the second part is a generic python library called paperbot.
06:28 <@kanzure> cathalgarvey: there's no reason for both parts to be in the same place, that's just how it was written and how it came to be
06:28 <@kanzure> cathalgarvey: but that doesn't mean it's right
06:28 < cathalgarvey> Sorry, not working on paperbot here
06:28 < cathalgarvey> Just using the scihub stuff to write a CLI client for scihub..
06:29 <@kanzure> ah okay
06:29 < cathalgarvey> But is that what you meant? As in, you'd like a Py module for paper getting and a separate phenny module that just farms out to the interface-agnostic module?
06:29 <@kanzure> yes
06:29 < cathalgarvey> Without meaning to offend, I find the code in paperbot's repo kinda difficult to read; lots of opaquely named variables
06:30 < cathalgarvey> I know that's because there's lots of outside commits etc., but I'm not sure I'd know how to refactor in short order without breaking everything
06:31 <@kanzure> hahah yeah ParahSailin wrote scihub.py
06:31 <@kanzure> and he kept writing with three-letter variables
06:31 < cathalgarvey> Yea, those ones! :P
06:31 <@kanzure> so look, feel free to break *anything*
06:31 < cathalgarvey> Who is ParaSailin, btw? Sure I've asked this before
06:31 <@kanzure> the code is terrible and therefore deserves to die.
06:31 <@kanzure> if it's not tested, it's probably broken anyway.
06:31 < cathalgarvey> Haha didn't wanna say anything about the embedded, pseudorecursive functions
06:32 <@kanzure> ParahSailin is a molecular biology goon out of rice university. used to work for SENS. currently does haskell/bioinformatics stuff for a sequencing company.
06:32 < cathalgarvey> Good old SENS
06:32 < cathalgarvey> You think it's all just one nutty guy with a homeless beard
06:32 < cathalgarvey> and then you start meeting them everywhere
06:33 < cathalgarvey> :)
06:33 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/aubrey.jpg
06:35 < cathalgarvey> :D :D
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08:06 <@kanzure> so i was wondering why this batch of adderall seemed to be no good
08:07 <@kanzure> so i tried to predict if it was gonna be teva or corepharma or shire
08:07 <@kanzure> it turns out it's actavis. who the fuck is actavis?
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08:34 <@kanzure> i like how both ParahSailin and cathalgarvey are suspicious of each other
08:34 <@kanzure> go go lab team paranoia
08:35 <@kanzure> "the government is out to get my mastermix"
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08:47 < ParaSa1lin> i probably shouldnt keep my stash of adderall in my car
08:47 <@kanzure> bad storage conditions
08:47 <@kanzure> aren't you still in houston?
08:47 < ParaSa1lin> yeah
08:48 <@kanzure> i've been meaning to be more careful about which manufacturers i accept when i buy
08:48 < ParaSa1lin> its xr so not that valuable to me
08:48 < ParaSa1lin> i dont really need 8 hours of frenzy
08:48 <@kanzure> personally i think the xr manufacturers vary dramatically in quality but i don't have proof yet
08:50 < gradstudentbot> I don't know whether I am Turing dreaming that I am a machine, or a machine dreaming that I am Turing!
08:50 < ParaSa1lin> xr has polymer matrix of some sort?
08:50 <@kanzure> i don't even have qualitative proof. i should be jotting down manufacturer vs. results. i could look back on irc logs or commits against bottles (i have old bottles with labels) i guess.
08:50 < ParaSa1lin> that definitely would be pretty variable
08:50 <@kanzure> well, shire has some proprietary release gel matrix thingy
08:51 <@kanzure> or release beads that are different somehow
08:51 <@kanzure> i haven't experienced variability with the tablets, though
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08:52 < ParaSa1lin> cathal's completely harmless
08:53 < ParaSa1lin> he wouldnt even hurt a jellyfish
08:58 < ParaSa1lin> if variability of delivery vehicles is bad, imagine how variable quality of biosimilar antibody drugs would be
09:01 < yashgaroth> it's already bad enough between fermentation runs of the original
09:04 < ParaSa1lin> they can't even do batch to batch consistency?
09:05 < ParaSa1lin> paperbot, http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/07/09/jnci.djt174.abstract
09:05 < yashgaroth> they try
09:05 < paperbot> http://pdf.highwire.org/stamped/jnci/early/2013/07/09/jnci.djt174.full.pdf
09:06 < yashgaroth> depends on the drug, sometimes you can get away with more variation in glycosylation etc
09:06 < ParaSa1lin> there is no try...
09:06 < ParaSa1lin> paperbot, http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0142961212003237
09:06 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag3/10.1016/j.biomaterials.2012.03.036.pdf
09:13 < jonathan____> cathal has been known to dismember helpless flies
09:13 < jonathan____> the dude is vicious
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09:27 <@kanzure> yashgaroth: favorite pipette brand?
09:29 < yashgaroth> like pipettor or tips?
09:29 <@kanzure> pipettor
09:29 <@kanzure> i had one of those really bad ideas
09:30 < yashgaroth> rainin I guess, since everywhere I've worked uses them
09:30 <@kanzure> basically a pencil troll except for pipettes. except not a troll, other plastic junk.
09:30 <@kanzure> what are those called anyway? pencil socks?
09:31 < yashgaroth> well you do need to manipulate them on the troll end
09:31 <@kanzure> yeah, i said not a troll.
09:32 <@kanzure> for instance, a skull pipettor
09:32 <@kanzure> wouldn't fit on the rack though
09:32 <@kanzure> unless you're one of the weirdos that hangs his pipettor?
09:32 < yashgaroth> or leaves them laying around on the bench
09:33 <@kanzure> not weird, just normal
09:34 < yashgaroth> there's not really much free space on them, I can't think of a place to put something that wouldn't be aggravating
09:34 < yashgaroth> the closest you get is unicorn stickers on a multichannel
09:34 <@kanzure> no thanks
09:35 < yashgaroth> I could see a nice ergo wrap for them, like molded finger grooves, grippy texture
09:35 <@kanzure> i think that could just be a rubber sleeve
09:35 < yashgaroth> sure but it's biotech so you could sell it for 50, maybe 75 bucks
09:36 <@kanzure> i thought these were already ergo-optimized
09:36 <@kanzure> or at least.. why did i think that?
09:36 <@kanzure> i've used some that had finger grooves, but i never considered if they were actually good grooves
09:36 < yashgaroth> they fit in your hand, but it's still just curved plastic
09:37 <@kanzure> right, i think a lot of people associate "ergonomic" with "any curves whatsoever"
09:38 < yashgaroth> well when I splurge on some single-channels for the lab, I'ma fit some bike innertube around it and see how that goes
09:39 <@kanzure> i also make that same assumption about keyboards. there's ergonomic keyboards but really they are just curved. i wonder if they consulted with some hand docs and they were like "well, that's better than not curved, so yeah sure that's ergonomic".
09:40 <@kanzure> because it's not like there are that many papers studying the range of possible hand motions
09:40 < yashgaroth> 'thanks for the consulting money'
09:41 < Zhwazi> In terms of keyboards I'd say the biggest ergonomic improvements are good keyswitches, light springs, and a dvorak layout.
09:41 < Zhwazi> I don't really care for curvey shapes myself.
09:42 <@kanzure> Zhwazi: dvorak might be okay for ergonomic reasons, but not typing efficiency as far as i can tell.
09:42 <@kanzure> oops i don't mean efficiency
09:42 <@kanzure> i mean wpm
09:42 < Zhwazi> I was gonna say, it's great for efficiency.
09:42 < Zhwazi> It's also great for wpm. The world record for typing was set on a dvorak keyboard.
09:43 <@kanzure> http://www.seanwrona.com/typeracer/profile.php?username=kanzure
09:43 < Zhwazi> It's just different. It will slow you down until you're used to it.
09:43 <@kanzure> my friend here doesn't use dvorak either http://www.seanwrona.com/typeracer/profile.php?username=arenasnow2
09:43 <@kanzure> my point is that dvorak isn't a substantial change. it's definitely not an order of magnitude difference.
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09:43 < Zhwazi> You can type fast without it, but if you're as practiced on dvorak as you are on qwerty, it's just as fast if not faster.
09:44 < Zhwazi> I'm not saying qwerty is slow, just that it's not as ergonomic as dvorak is.
09:44 <@kanzure> whatever. i'm more curious about plover i guess.
09:44 < Zhwazi> My fingers have to move a lot less to type on dvorak.
09:45 <@kanzure> my biggest holdup on plover so far is special characters. and that everyone has different dictionaries.
09:46 <@kanzure> i think the default or most common sequence for a period is really giving you a period and a space. which is not exactly what i mean when i am coding.
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09:56 < ParaSa1lin> kanzure, one of my coworkers was telling me that he preordered some sort of input device that watched hand gestures or something
09:56 < ParaSa1lin> you have any idea what that could be?
09:57 <@kanzure> if your coworker is really lame then it was probably a kinect
10:00 < ParaSa1lin> nah, wasnt kinect
10:00 <@kanzure> hrmm https://github.com/plover/plover/master/plover/assets/dict.json
10:00 < ParaSa1lin> leap motion
10:01 <@kanzure> i still don't know why they have this silly intermediate grammar
10:01 <@kanzure> when they say -FPLT they don't actually mean FPLT, they mean something completely different
10:02 <@kanzure> and for some reason when i do type FPLT, it gives me a period and a space.. even though it says just period there. wtf?
10:02 <@kanzure> see for yourself: http://stenoknight.com/plover/ploverdemo/ploverdemo.html
10:05 <@kanzure> http://stenoknight.com/plover/steno-alphabet-for-web-full-size.jpg
10:05 <@kanzure> i guess it's nice to have an intermediate alphabet/grammar so that people transitioning to your platform will know how to use it
10:12 < ParaSa1lin> paperbot, http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&pmid=23482635
10:12 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1096%2Ffj.12-220764
10:24 <@kanzure> pressing down on p;c simultaneously is supposed to be 'sat' but all i get is "at ".
10:24 <@kanzure> at least, p;c is according to http://stenoknight.com/STPRRPTS.jpg
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10:29 <@kanzure> oh oops that's because neither of these keyboards have rollover
10:29 <@kanzure> well that makes a lot of sense
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11:43 <@fenn> "proud member of the Strategic Fat Guy Reserve"
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11:47 < jonathan____> so i was scanning thru the video of the live stream
11:47 < jonathan____> some dude wrote a message on a piece of paper, walked up to the camera, and held it up
11:48 < jonathan____> too bad for him, resolution was set too low to get his msg across
11:48 < jonathan____> note to future conspirators:  use wide sharpie pens to write messages for display on random cameras.  pen ink is not bold enough.
11:51 < archels`> people have been graffiti-ing 'Quis custodes ipsos custodiet?' around here
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12:02 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/diybio/biotechnbeyond-attendees.yaml.txt
12:03 <@kanzure> wait.. is joe's mom named jan?
12:06 < yashgaroth> employer: California State San Marcos
12:07 <@kanzure> it says http://www.alere.com/
12:07 < yashgaroth> what, mine?
12:08 <@kanzure> yeah, not san marcos
12:08 < yashgaroth> only 2 people on there from alere and I'm one of them
12:08 <@kanzure> Ellen Mae Rudy:
12:09 < yashgaroth> jan jackson's says cal state
12:09 <@kanzure> oh hm
12:09 <@kanzure> good point
12:14 <@kanzure> oh wait that's missing half
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12:17 < delinquentme> half caf?
12:17 < delinquentme> lame
12:17 < delinquentme> full caf
12:18 < delinquentme> get crakd
12:18 < delinquentme> kanzure, i mishshew =[
12:18 < delinquentme> WHAT ARE WE GON WERK ON
12:18 <@kanzure> rewrite paperbot
12:18 <@kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot
12:18 <@kanzure> separate out the irc stuff from the rest of it
12:22 < delinquentme> At the end of the day, your life happiness will not be dominated by your career.
12:22 < delinquentme> ^ face palm
12:22 < delinquentme> its not biotech =[
12:26 < jonathan____> uh you put the attendee list in yaml
12:26 <@kanzure> that's how i dump data into my stalk log
12:26 <@kanzure> 69,199 entries and counting
12:27 < jonathan____> but my entry is not correct  raaaaaa
12:27 <@kanzure> and then i can run queries on this database
12:27 < jonathan____> i insist you stalk me properly
12:28 <@kanzure> how is it wrong?
12:28 < jonathan____> - Jonathan Cline <jcline@ieee.org>:
12:28 <@kanzure> am i mispelling your name
12:28 <@kanzure> oh is this the one where you added an n
12:28 <@kanzure> jncline?
12:28 < jonathan____> is this a real key?  - name <something>
12:29 <@kanzure> in yaml you can make a list entry with "-"
12:29 < jonathan____> <yes but this>
12:29 <@kanzure> in this case my list entries are each just a single dictionary: "- {}" which looks like "- stuff: { ... }"
12:30 < jonathan____> ie your db should have a mailto: value <not a this>
12:30 <@kanzure> oh, the system parses the yaml into a reasonable format before dumping into the real database
12:30 <@kanzure> so Name <email> gets parsed into name, and then the email address added to the list of known email addresses
12:30 <@kanzure> and then i have other tricks for nicknames and name changes
12:30 < jonathan____> i wonder if anyone else thought to dump the list of attendees  eh probably not only i'm that crazy
12:31 <@kanzure> yashgaroth / max so that i can keep track of stupid idents
12:31 <@kanzure> well, i usually "mysteriously acquire" attendee lists from all sorts of events
12:31 <@kanzure> so i can do intersection lookups like.. people who were at sb 5 and singularity summit 2009
12:31 <@kanzure> but who didn't go to sens
12:31 < jonathan____> you have a bright future working for salesforce.com
12:32 < gradstudentbot> Heh, undergrads.
12:32 <@kanzure> if you feel like watching a video about my system, there's http://quantifiedself.com/2011/08/bryan-bishop-on-meetlog/
12:32 < jonathan____> joe should advertise on north park so there's cool art people who come to the lab!
12:33 < jonathan____> oh thats interesting I will watch
12:33 <@kanzure> i have some friends that show up in the weirdest places
12:33 <@kanzure> and i wouldn't immediately recognize them because it's completely out of context / wrong contexts
12:34 <@kanzure> also i have this problem where, without this crutch, i wouldn't be able to completely remember what i'm forgetting to talk with certain people about (e.g., i still have a fairly strong separation between certain programming friends for no good reason..)
12:35 < delinquentme> jonathan____, you're jcline??
12:35 < jonathan____> no man don't insult me
12:35 < jonathan____> that guys an asshole
12:35 <@kanzure> the best kind though
12:35 < delinquentme> what makes you say that?
12:35 < jonathan____> dude everybody knows it just google it
12:36 < jonathan____> Hmm have you tried graphing in graphviz or freemind
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12:37 <@kanzure> jonathan____: i've made some graphs, like http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/meetlog/tags.2010-08-09-1150.html
12:37 <@kanzure> and http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/meetlog/graphs/jonathan_cline.png
12:37 <@kanzure> (note: knowledge is "times that other people have told me about a person", not.. knowledge.)
12:37 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/meetlog/2010-01-01_to_2010-02-25.png
12:38 < jonathan____> what is "knowledge"
12:38 < jonathan____> oh
12:38 < jonathan____> it's 7 deg of separation effecgt
12:38 <@kanzure> i also do tag stats, http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/meetlog/other/tag_champions.txt
12:38 < yashgaroth> pre-opening pics http://imgur.com/a/48dza
12:39 <@kanzure> if you could suggest something for me to dump into graphviz, i could try it sometime
12:39 <@kanzure> conversations are tagged with topics
12:39 <@kanzure> so i could just graph tags that are commonly pointing to each other
12:40 <@kanzure> and then look at clusters and pretend i'm doing "big data"
12:42 < delinquentme> kanzure, wat is this graph about?
12:42 <@kanzure> delinquentme: jonathan____ was asking if i have dumped my data into graphviz. i was telling him no.
12:43 <@kanzure> delinquentme: it's just my meetlog/stalk database/everyone i have ever met
12:43 < delinquentme> jonathan____, idk i was hoping you were him
12:43 < delinquentme> but you were a bit uppity last night
12:43 < delinquentme> ( speaking of assholes )
12:44 <@kanzure> i don't know why you have so much trouble with this one
12:44 <@kanzure> he already said yes he's the same person
12:45 < delinquentme> ah! was only skimming
12:45 < delinquentme> cool! jonathan____  good to have you in here
12:46 < delinquentme> << carlcrott@gmail.com
12:46 < delinquentme> wheres the peristaltic pump?
12:46 < jonathan____> there's no such thing as uppity i just insist people do homework
12:47 < delinquentme> jonathan____, ha
12:47 < jonathan____> thanks for the pix
12:47 < delinquentme> pix on?
12:47 < jonathan____> now I can send them to random people and it seems i'm working in a lab rather than the opposite of that
12:47 < delinquentme> Im still not convinced that we have a really solid answer as to control setups in massive machine inegrations
12:48 < jonathan____> who's "we"
12:48 < jonathan____> what's "massive"
12:49 <@kanzure> massivebio.com is available
12:50 <@kanzure> oh wait i forgot that you had used yaml in the past
12:50 <@kanzure> i guess that explains your yaml question above
12:50 < delinquentme> jonathan____, discussion last night concerning tesla
12:51 < jonathan____> well i certainly am self satisfied with the answers I have
12:51 <@fenn> the photos really do look like a legit lab and not just a room with stuff i nit
12:51 <@kanzure> "- x" and "- [1, 2, 3]" and "- { }" and "- key: value" are all valid yaml
12:51 < jonathan____> yes but key has restrictions eh
12:51 <@fenn> <> characters don't mean anything special afaik
12:51 < delinquentme> jonathan____, haha so youre final conclusion is "ad hoc everything"
12:51 <@kanzure> he never said ad hoc
12:51 < delinquentme> sounds like a shitty answer
12:51 <@kanzure> go read the damn logs
12:51 <@kanzure> don't waste our time
12:52 < jonathan____> no man my conclusion is you need to go read a textbook on industrial control systems
12:52 < delinquentme> I was there?
12:52 <@kanzure> http://gnusha.org/logs/2013-07-12.log
12:52 <@fenn> so i just read the logs and my conclusion is that delinquentme needs to read a book on industrial control systems
12:52 < jonathan____> yea you were there but you were on drugs
12:52 <@kanzure> and not the good kind
12:53 <@kanzure> oh wait that was in today's log
12:53 <@fenn> also I2C over long distances in an industrial environment is a horrible idea
12:53 < delinquentme> I dont recall this part
12:53 <@kanzure> http://gnusha.org/logs/2013-07-13.log
12:55 <@fenn> delinquentme: a mature low latency standard computer to computer interface is 1394 "firewire"
12:56 <@fenn> and ethernet is not bad, especially when you use etherCAT hardware
12:56 < jonathan____> yaml :   "ERROR:
12:56 < jonathan____>  Reserved indicators can't
12:56 < jonathan____>  start a plain scalar."
12:56 <@kanzure> what was the test sample?
12:57 <@fenn> foo = yaml.load("- <blah>"); foo
12:57 <@fenn> Out[4]: ['<blah>']
12:57 <@fenn> works for me
12:57 < jonathan____> sure it might be accepted by the parser.  i guess its not explicitly allowed.
12:57 < jonathan____> or not explicitly disallowed.
12:57 <@kanzure> is it possible that you have an old perl/yaml module from cpan?
12:57 < delinquentme> fenn, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EtherCAT I like this
12:58 < jonathan____> key with space seems a bit funky as is having reserved chars in the key itself
12:58 <@fenn> delinquentme: keep in mind that you have to use only etherCAT hardware in your subnet, or it doesn't work
12:59 <@kanzure> jonathan____: to be fair, my format needs a lot of work
12:59 < jonathan____> well you said it was run thru a preparser anyways
12:59 < delinquentme> you're saying that ONLY these connected to the same units will work
12:59 <@kanzure> jonathan____: for example, right now i have situations where i have "max powers" and "Max Powers" and some french idiots "Max POWERS"
12:59 < jonathan____> so it could be a new rfc called kanzureaml
12:59 < delinquentme> I wonder how cyan plays into all of this
12:59 <@kanzure> jonathan____: right, i take name keys and i standardize them
13:00 <@kanzure> jonathan____: i need a better way to log this data though. i used to have a phone widget that dumped my call log data daily. and skype logs (audio recording). and google voice recordings. but a lot of that has been broken for a while..
13:01 <@fenn> jonathan____: what was the string that gave you a yaml error?
13:02 <@kanzure> until recently there was a rather complete yaml dump of my database sitting on my web server. google even indexed it. nobody complained to me about the existence of that. it was surprising. had to delete it.
13:02 < jonathan____> so my boss walked into my cube recently and asked for my status on a high priority work item.  while we were talking i guess his iphone buzzed so he took it out and started using it.  but he also has an ipad mini that he uses sometimes.   and he has a mac laptop that he brings in from home.  and he has his company thinkpad.  and he has a desk phone of course.  so he has more hi-thruput modern communication devices than limbs.
13:03 < jonathan____> no string gave me a yaml error, i'm reading the spec http://www.yaml.org/spec/1.2/spec.html#Syntax
13:03 <@kanzure> well, all of my devices connect to the same irc context
13:03 <@kanzure> so it's mostly about which one i am currently using
13:04 <@kanzure> burn him alive! he's reading specifications!
13:04 <@kanzure> jonathan____: btw if you read the html5 spec and css3 spec you're like leagues ahead of the vast majority of web developes getting employed anywhere eve
13:04 <@kanzure> *ever
13:05 <@kanzure> *developers
13:05 < jonathan____> @ is a reserved char of course.  i guess it doesnt kill anything in the existing parsers tho since they're reading til end of line.
13:06 <@fenn> the only thing i see about angle brackets is stuff about tags, and all tags start with !<
13:07 < jonathan____> i think you could graph the 'knowledge' somehow in graphviz, however you craete that metric.
13:07 <@kanzure> in those graphs, it was just a cumulative count of how many tags i have applied via the 'knowledge' entrypoint
13:07 <@kanzure> s/graphs/charts
13:07 < jonathan____> i.e.  if you're counting grep 'fenn:.*jonathan' then you do fenn -> jonathan
13:08 < jonathan____> then you would get connection mapping diagram of sorts
13:08 <@kanzure> oh geeze why have i been doing "location: whatever, whatever".. it should be {location: whatever}. i don't know why that didn't occur to me. i guess i wanted to use a string so that it would be counted as a tag (talking about a place). i also do "dog:whoever" to indicate we talked about some dog or "person:whoever" to indicate we were talking about a person.
13:08 <@kanzure> "person:" is hilarious actually because jojack is the best at it
13:08 < jonathan____> what do you mean
13:08 <@kanzure> here is what jojack talks about: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/meetlog/other/people/joseph_jackson.html
13:08 <@kanzure> the joke is that he talks about other people
13:09 <@kanzure> search for "person:" on that page
13:09 <@fenn> i think it would be interesting just to graphviz people -> tag (where people are nodes and tags are nodes, and edges are whether the tag is in any entries for that person)
13:09 <@kanzure> (size is cumulative occurrences in the tag data)
13:09 <@fenn> it should cluster people by interests
13:09 < jonathan____> oh you mean complains about other people.  lol
13:10 < jonathan____> yes, graphviz is good at that type of thing
13:10 < jonathan____> now if you were able to do x -> y -> z that would be a crazy graph
13:11 < jonathan____> but x -> y should be somewhat viewable
13:11 <@kanzure> i don't think clustering is particularly novel or interesting
13:11 <@kanzure> i mean.. i sort of already know what the clusters will end up being, right?
13:11 < jonathan____> umm not always
13:12 < jonathan____> machines are of course better than your brain
13:12 <@fenn> yeah but the people in the graph don't know where they are or who else is near them
13:13 < jonathan____> you could also autolink to other places like linkedin or openwetware
13:13 < jonathan____> then you'd have a pretty fancy recruiting database to sell
13:13 <@kanzure> i have many other bits of data that i track here, since it's yaml i just add on new data whenever i find it, like new links or profiles or different aliases and emails
13:13 <@kanzure> also phone numbers
13:14 <@kanzure> i wish people would stop naming their kids john http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/johns.txt
13:14 < jonathan____> the amazing thing is that since I started putting my phone number everywhere as an experiment long ago, i have not received more calls, I have received far fewer
13:14 <@kanzure> yeah, me too
13:14 <@kanzure> nobody fucking calls me ever
13:14 < jonathan____> in fact people say "is that your mobile" even tho it says Mobile: xxx
13:15 <@kanzure> you would expect the phone number at the bottom of your email would entice more people to call
13:15 <@kanzure> like on the diybio list
13:15 <@kanzure> but no.. just the opposite.
13:15 < jonathan____> this is not isolated to us..  i had some associates with scummy seo salesmen types who do big conferences, they plaster their contact info everywhere, and they never get any calls..
13:16 < jonathan____> these guys advertised themselves as consultants billing $500/hr and yet if you easily found their number and called it, you could talk directly with them.   lol  ridiculous
13:16 <@fenn> anyway i did something similar and it was interesting, sort of a chronology of the past few years: http://fennetic.net/irc/fun2.png
13:17 <@fenn> er, that is a graphviz of my contact info stuff
13:17 <@kanzure> what does the directionality mean
13:17 < jonathan____> lol in that pic what is "me"
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13:17 <@fenn> directionality is context
13:18 < jonathan____> basically if you think about it you guys are just automating that process of "oh you are interested in x too? I know y who is also interested in x!"
13:18 < jonathan____> "you guys should connect and discuss x together!"
13:18 <@kanzure> actually i did that already
13:18 <@fenn> yes, that is the point
13:18 <@kanzure> i have it look for related tags and then tell me that i am stupid for not telling you about <thing i've forgotten>
13:18 < jonathan____> well it's automation software to do it as ongoing process
13:18 -!- wizrobe is now known as raygeld
13:19 < nmz787> pseudorecursion eh ParahSail1n ?
13:19 <@kanzure> jonathan____: i wanted to try automatically-generating emails to send out to different people, based on previous things ew've talked about
13:19 <@kanzure> jonathan____: because complaining to my mom about my gels might not be something she wants to hear about, but nate or rob could probably help with that, maybe
13:19 <@kanzure> jonathan____: but it turns out that the emails are long and boring
13:20 < jonathan____> do tweets and it will be popular I bet
13:20 < nmz787> offendbot
13:20 < nmz787> so i was thinking about tDt synthesis
13:20 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/meetlog/graphs/aaron_swartz.png
13:20 < jonathan____> fenn you obviously need more "businessmen" cause I only see one bubble for that lol
13:21 < nmz787> there was an Intel Precision Biology paper on using SERS (surface enhanced raman spectroscopy) to sequence DNA on concentration in and conentration out of a polymerase chamber with DNA template
13:21 < nmz787> and a rich nucleotide soln flowing through
13:21 <@fenn> jonathan____: what does one do with a businessman
13:21 < jonathan____> you don't drop the soap
13:21 <@kanzure> you go out "for coffee"
13:22 <@kanzure> and "reach out"
13:22 < nmz787> and there's a guy locally doing this http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Apertureless_near-field_far-field_CW_two-photon_microscope_for_biological_and_material_imaging_and_spectroscopic_applications.pdf
13:22 < jonathan____> hahaha  "reach out"
13:22 < jonathan____> omg lol
13:22 < nmz787> basically using a 32768 khz (or Hz?) crystal/piezo
13:22 < nmz787> and a cheap CW laser
13:22 <@fenn> maybe i should put it this way, why would i ever want to talk to a businessman
13:22 <@kanzure> to absorb their brain
13:23 < nmz787> so if i could de-can an audio oscillator crystal
13:23 < jonathan____> businessmen are like this.  you talk a bunch of hype stuff to them, tell them how big the market is and how it will change the world, then spin them around towards the door and say "find some leads!"
13:23 < nmz787> he has papers published on using laser pointers for crazy-weird optical microscopy
13:23 < nmz787> (the CW )
13:23 <@fenn> jonathan____: and then what
13:24 < nmz787> i think he might be at a conference now or something, cause h hasn't responded to my ast 2 emails
13:24 < nmz787> last 2*
13:24 < jonathan____> then you allow them to negotiate for you and take the majority of it and give them a small percentage.  easy peasy
13:24 <@kanzure> fenn: and then they get out of your way and provide you with resources to do your job
13:24 < nmz787> i'm not sure if the sample has to be on the crystal surface
13:25 < jonathan____> i'm out
13:25 < nmz787> but if not, then it could be below a microchannel
13:25 < nmz787> and then we could use tdt and a nano-sieve to just pump in really dilute as hell (1 nucleotide per lot of channel length)
13:25 <@fenn> i think we are confusing "businessman" with "agent". in my mind the agent is supposed to get out of your way and provide resources, whereas the businessman is just in it for himself and using you as a tool to get more power/money for himself
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13:26 <@kanzure> do you believe it is possible for a clever person to be into business?
13:26 < delinquentme> haha
13:27 < delinquentme> kanzure, I think they're the most clever
13:27 <@kanzure> it sounds like your answer is going to be no
13:27 <@fenn> yes, you have to be clever to be successful at deceiving people
13:27 <@kanzure> you don't have to deceive anyone
13:27 <@fenn> show me an honest businessman and i'll convert to the church of the dollar on the spot
13:27 < delinquentme> business makes something profitable :D
13:27 <@fenn> successful honest businessman
13:27 < delinquentme> fenn, me!
13:27 < delinquentme> successfulish
13:28 <@kanzure> what does church of the dollar mean?
13:28 < delinquentme> fenn, in baby blue
13:28 <@fenn> um, i dunno, but it sounded better than the church of mormon
13:28 <@kanzure> you don't have to like money to have it
13:28 <@fenn> i didn't say all rich people were businessmen
13:29 <@kanzure> please list any biases in the form of sentences
13:29 <@fenn> you're a businessman if your only talent is getting other people to do stuff for you and give you money
13:29 <@kanzure> "only talent"
13:29 <@kanzure> what if you're not talented, but you do work anyway?
13:30 <@fenn> then you should be finding a different line of work?
13:30 <@kanzure> maybe we mean different things
13:31 <@kanzure> are you saying that if you're not the top 1% of your field, you shouldn't be doing anything?
13:31 <@fenn> i'm not a fan of competetive ranking
13:31 <@fenn> grading on the curve, whatever
13:31 <@fenn> i honestly wish we had a science of measuring performance
13:32 <@kanzure> i don't think your definition of business is useful, it seems to be broadly applicable to anything that you gain from
13:32 <@kanzure> in other words you are only interested in net no-gain situations or something
13:32 <@kanzure> which i know isn't true
13:32 <@kanzure> i think you might have a lot of biases you're not disclosing here
13:33 <@fenn> true leaders should have some understanding of the field they're working in; if all you know is manipulating people and getting money out of them, i'm not interested in talking to you
13:33 <@kanzure> "all you know" who is this?
13:33 <@fenn> because i'm probably going to be the next person getting manipulated etc
13:33 < ParahSail1n> nmz787, no theres real recursion
13:33 <@kanzure> every time i talk to someone i'm manipulating them
13:34 <@kanzure> this is why steve doesn't
13:34 <@fenn> heh
13:34 <@fenn> yes he's kinda the opposite
13:34 <@kanzure> and then there's other things like the art of good communication being something about thinking about how you are doing that manipulation
13:34 < delinquentme> kanzure, kind of
13:34 <@kanzure> delinquentme: hush i'm fixing fenn problems
13:34 < delinquentme> the thing is at the base level you're interacting
13:34 < delinquentme> fundamentally an exchange of information
13:34 < delinquentme> why does psychology work
13:34 <@kanzure> why does what work?
13:35 <@fenn> psychology is a bullshit explanatory pseudoscience
13:35 < delinquentme> do people apply psychology in non clinical situations?
13:35 < delinquentme> fenn, not entirely
13:35 < delinquentme> sure its not physics
13:35 < delinquentme> but theres something to it
13:35 <@kanzure> can you go away
13:35 < delinquentme> kanzure, sure
13:36 < delinquentme> but look at ideas in the context of communication
13:36 < delinquentme> you want to talk about manipulation...
13:36 <@kanzure> no, i don't want to talk about it
13:36 <@kanzure> i also don't want to talk about psychology
13:36 <@kanzure> or communication
13:36 < delinquentme> idk if you guys want to have a legit chat about it... feel free to
13:36 <@kanzure> please stop :(
13:36 <@fenn> now that i look at it, this graphviz graph is pretty messed up. why is everything smooshed onto the left side of the screen? it hasn't fully relaxed
13:36 < delinquentme> kk
13:37 <@fenn> kanzure is trying to convince me that money is a good thing
13:37 <@kanzure> no
13:37 <@kanzure> try again
13:37 < ParahSail1n> i think you meant mammon not mormon
13:37 <@kanzure> i'm trying to convince you that elitism doesn't work
13:37 < delinquentme> fenn, I dont think this is actually a statement
13:38 <@kanzure> wait, no that's not it either
13:38 < delinquentme> "nuclear energy isnt a good thing"
13:38 < delinquentme> they're all tools
13:38 <@kanzure> i really really want you to go away
13:38 <@kanzure> fenn is going to rip you apart
13:38 <@fenn> rawr
13:38 <@kanzure> and then nothing will be different
13:39 < delinquentme> what?
13:39 < delinquentme> oh is this like a nonsense circle jerk which im not invited to?
13:39 <@fenn> kanzure: "elitism doesn't work", in your opinion, why is that so?
13:39 < delinquentme> are you talking about something of substance or just jibbering?
13:40 <@kanzure> fenn: i retracted my comment
13:40 <@fenn> delinquentme: you go off on a lot of random tangents and it's distracting
13:40 <@kanzure> delinquentme: you're not invited because you're bad at thinking
13:40 < delinquentme> and now back to psych
13:40 <@kanzure> also bad at reading
13:40 <@fenn> facebook has 1 billion users now because they started off with elitism. meanwhile nobody uses myspace
13:40 < delinquentme> kanzure, no actually i might be good at psychology bc im extracting information from people by using what I've got over them
13:40 <@kanzure> you pay more attention to news sources than you do to me
13:41 < delinquentme> piss people off and throw in logic which they feel the need to correct
13:41 < delinquentme> vioa
13:41 < delinquentme> free information
13:41 <@kanzure> oh brother
13:41 < delinquentme> works like a charm in irc
13:41 -!- delinquentme was kicked from ##hplusroadmap by kanzure [delinquentme]
13:41 < ParahSail1n> been waiting for that one
13:41 <@kanzure> not working so much now huh
13:41 -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@66.233.132.203] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:41 < ParahSail1n> any mechanical engineers in here?
13:41  * delinquentme fml
13:41 < delinquentme> you guys are like...
13:42 < delinquentme> kk ima read
13:42 <@fenn> ParahSail1n: just ask your question
13:42 <@kanzure> please read the logs and figure out what we are actually saying to you
13:42 <@kanzure> yeah, don't ask to ask
13:42 < ParahSail1n> preferably good at welding and knowledgeable of refrigeration
13:42 < delinquentme> kanzure, you're not saying anything you're jumping around in the manner which you're accusing me of doing
13:42 <@kanzure> delinquentme: i'm not jumping around
13:42 < delinquentme> from saying that I dont read to my thoughts on psychological processes dont mesh with what you two are discussing
13:42  * ParahSail1n is hiring
13:42 <@kanzure> delinquentme: i was replying to 13:33 <@fenn> because i'm probably going to be the next person getting manipulated etc
13:42 < delinquentme> which is wildly interesting considering the ad hominem of both you two
13:42 <@fenn> ParahSail1n: what's the salary for refrigerator welders? :P
13:42 < delinquentme> pick out a social situation
13:42 < delinquentme> fucking hell
13:43 <@kanzure> delinquentme: you seem to be totally unaware of the actual conversation we were having
13:43 <@kanzure> delinquentme: and what's really weird is that the conversation was extremely explicit
13:43 < delinquentme> kanzure, im done w it
13:43 <@fenn> yeah it's pretty impressive, lower signal to noise ratio than gradstudentbot
13:43 < gradstudentbot> God, I'm going to quit.
13:43 < delinquentme> hahah
13:44 < delinquentme> srsly bag of dicks
13:44 < delinquentme> fenn feel free to pick out the lacking statements in my shrinkery
13:44 <@kanzure> no!
13:44 <@kanzure> that's specifically what i wanted him to not do
13:44 <@kanzure> i even /said that/
13:44 <@fenn> yeah i'm not falling for that
13:44 < delinquentme> kanzure, do you just want to fucking kick me?
13:44 <@kanzure> it's like you don't read what i say to you and this makes me sad :(
13:44 < ParahSail1n> fenn, if that person is you, ill have to continue this at a later time
13:45 < ParahSail1n> have to pick someone up at the airport
13:45 < delinquentme> circular wtf-ing
13:45 <@kanzure> ParahSail1n: just ask your question
13:45 <@kanzure> ParahSail1n: oh
13:45 < delinquentme> kanzure, Im ignoring what you say because youve stated "dont talk psych"
13:45 < delinquentme> then proceed to yourself
13:45 < delinquentme> please explain.
13:45 < ParahSail1n> kanzure, ive got quite a large project to discuss with a potential partner
13:45 <@kanzure> delinquentme: it's because i wasn't talking about psychology
13:46  * delinquentme blinks
13:46 <@kanzure> delinquentme: and because we have no interest in your platitudes
13:46 < gradstudentbot> The gel is streaking.
13:46 <@fenn> ParahSail1n: i'm probably the wrong guy, as i've never built a refrigerator
13:46 <@kanzure> fenn: don't sell yourself short
13:46 < delinquentme> sooo your attempt to discuss logic is attempting to tag me as not knowing what im talking about?
13:47 <@kanzure> i'm not discussing logic
13:47 < delinquentme> wow
13:47 <@kanzure> delinquentme: what if i am right, and that you seriously /did/ misread what i have said?
13:47 < delinquentme> jesus
13:47  * fenn takes a short break from irc while kanzure and delinquentme duke it out
13:47 <@kanzure> delinquentme: is it even theoretically possible for you to be wrong
13:47 < ParahSail1n> i can say, that i need someone to make one of these https://www.google.com/patents/EP0603182B1?cl=en&dq=supercool+chiller&hl=en&sa=X&ei=37zhUa-yF4fyqQHV5oCQDw&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAA
13:48 < delinquentme> kanzure, fuck yourself
13:50 < delinquentme> seriously I make an attempt to help in an area which I've a bit of practice. And somehow you dig up some merit in saying that all my statements are vacuous
13:51 <@kanzure> i'll only accept specific evidence
13:52 <@kanzure> from the logs where you jumped in
13:52 < delinquentme> listen. if you want input give me a TLDR on the convo
13:53 < delinquentme> I can and want to help
13:53 < delinquentme> excuse my "platitudes"
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13:54 <@kanzure> i don't think you know me. i hate "too long, didn't read". if you didn't read then why are you even complaining about this!
13:55 < delinquentme> you're talking manipulation
13:55 < delinquentme> explicit. psychology. applied.
13:55 < delinquentme> plz esprain how manipulating anyone through XYZ process... isn't psychology
13:56 <@kanzure> 13:33 <@fenn> because i'm probably going to be the next person getting manipulated etc
13:56 <@kanzure> 13:33 <@kanzure> every time i talk to someone i'm manipulating them
13:56 <@kanzure> 13:34 <@kanzure> this is why steve doesn't
13:56 <@kanzure> i was pointing out that his observation wasn't particularly relevant or useful
13:56 < delinquentme> and I'm agreeing with you  <@kanzure> every time i talk to someone i'm manipulating them
13:56 < delinquentme> so
13:57 <@kanzure> and therefore isn't a good explanation from him
13:57 <@kanzure> i don't give a fuck that you agree, sorry
13:58 <@kanzure> do you see how i made a statement to show him that his previous wasn't worth considering?
13:59 < delinquentme> kanzure, you're pretty pretentious for someone whos not so hot w psychology
13:59 < delinquentme> not much self applied huh?
13:59 < delinquentme> now if you want to talk psychology
13:59 < delinquentme> why dont you start dumping the thoughts going through your head right now
14:00 < delinquentme> plz k thnx
14:02 <@kanzure> what does hot mean?
14:02 < delinquentme> efficacious , ardoit, skilled, capable
14:03 < delinquentme> adroit*
14:03 <@kanzure> so because i don't like something, it means i am not skilled at it?
14:03 <@kanzure> can you please describe how that leap of logic works..
14:05 < delinquentme> srsly where do you get off w asserting that people have zero capability to participate in a discussion?
14:05 < delinquentme> " What The Fuck Is Wrong With You ? "
14:08 <@kanzure> historical evidence. experience. we've been friends for a really long time. i would be a pretty awful person if i wasn't able to predict altercations like this.
14:08 < gradstudentbot> I'm glad you brought that up, I'm going to do that right now.
14:10 < delinquentme> clearly you averted it
14:11 <@kanzure> yeah, i'm pretty bad at handling you
14:11 < delinquentme> tell me im wrong
14:11 <@kanzure> but at least fenn didn't get stuck in a psychology hate speech loop
14:11 <@kanzure> so.. mission successful.
14:12 < juri_> i like pi.
14:12 < delinquentme> I truly give a shit about you guys but jesus some of this shit is crazy. Seemingly packaged as an ego fight
14:12 <@kanzure> none of this is about ego
14:12 <@kanzure> juri_: arguably you should consider preferring tau
14:12 < delinquentme> <kanzure> i don't give a fuck that you agree, sorry
14:12 < delinquentme> do you feel macho?
14:12 <@kanzure> delinquentme: that's not a statement of ego
14:12 <@kanzure> delinquentme: i am telling you that i honestly don't care
14:12 < delinquentme> OH REALLLY?
14:12 < delinquentme> REALLY
14:13 <@kanzure> yes. i did not care that you agreed. you could have disagreed too. i still wouldn't have cared.
14:13 < delinquentme> no kanzure that is flaming ego defensive machismo
14:13 < delinquentme> " not care "
14:13 < delinquentme> Sorry such a statement is just evidence as to how little you know.
14:14 < delinquentme> fuck. utterly useless. Lovely little chat we got ourselves into! And a perfectly peachy emotional state
14:16 < juri_> just remember, we're all on team progress and technology here.
14:17 <@kanzure> i think it's cool that you're reading my messages for once, so you have that going for you.
14:17 < juri_> when you start to feel sad cause some asshat has you mad, see gitorious make you glad, with the submissions that you had!
14:18 <@kanzure> i also don't think you have any insight into how i feel ("perfectly peachy" indicates that you think i'm feeling poorly)
14:21 < delinquentme> juri_, +1
14:28 <@kanzure>  /win 4
14:28 <@kanzure> jfoiadjfosa
14:28 <@fenn> i like tau but i think "turn" makes more sense
14:28 <@kanzure> i said consider, not that i insisted.
14:29 <@fenn> but the physicists have to use a greek letter for some reason
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15:44 < juri_>  
15:44 < juri_> er. ;)
16:00 <@kanzure> someone made gobject bindings for node but they didn't fix the libev/libuv vs. glib event loop issues: https://github.com/creationix/node-gir/issues/7
16:00 <@kanzure> juri_: are you a gtk/gnome person by any chance
16:17 <@kanzure> wow is gnome code often this poorly formatted? https://git.gnome.org/browse/seed/tree/libseed/seed-engine.c#n266
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16:28 < juri_> i'm as far from it as you can get.
16:28 < juri_> running blackbox as my desktop 'environment', and using midori as a web browser. might have to develop on libwebkitgtk..
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16:29 <@kanzure> juri_: why do you mention libwebkitgtk?
16:30 <@kanzure> is that a suggestion because you think i haven't looked into it, or because you are using midori and noticing problems?
16:36 < juri_> its just on my todo list for today. i'm working on a pure html5 based solution for QR code recognition, and need the media streaming operations to cooperate.
16:36 < juri_> this took at a minimum recompiling that library to support it, and might take some work on the debian package, to move to a newer version.
16:37 < juri_> i MAY be tracking a bug. i'm still lookign into it.
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16:41 <@kanzure> there's already lots of javascript/qr code stuff. i think opencv even has that junk. but that's overkill.
16:41 <@kanzure> oh you want it from streaming video.
16:41 <@kanzure> hmm
16:42 < juri_> there is plenty of it. there is no pure javascript implementation of a qr code reader.
16:42 <@kanzure> what? i doubt that.
16:42 <@kanzure> pure js implementation: https://github.com/LazarSoft/jsqrcode
16:42 < juri_> well, there is a decoder, but not a reader. decoders want pure images, readers seperate QR code from crap-in-background.
16:42 <@kanzure> (it's a port, but that doesn't mean it's not js)
16:43 < juri_> make me wrong. i'd enjoy it.
16:43 <@kanzure> well, they claim that's a port of whatever zxing is doing, and zxing definitely separates qr codes from background noise.
16:44 <@kanzure> so either they are liars or you just found yourself a library
16:44 < juri_> well, that just saved me a shitload of work.
16:44 < juri_> thanks! :)
16:44 <@kanzure> that implementation looks bad, it's not even packaged
16:45 <@kanzure> i suggest using this one https://npmjs.org/package/jsqrcode
16:45 <@kanzure> it should work in a browser even though it was written for node
16:45 <@kanzure> if there is anything in it thta requires node, you can run it through browserify
16:45 <@kanzure> the advantage here is that it is commonjs-compliant and it keeps your js architecture sane
16:45 < juri_> very nice.
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16:54 < juri_> wow. you seriously just saved me some time. thanks. i'll have to like, pretend i have time to talk here now. ;)
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17:17 <@fenn> i'd like to request that font size in tag clouds be based on log(frequency), because mine is completely dominated by #hplusroadmap
17:18 <@kanzure> i wonder if parsing all my yaml data takes too long on my monster machine. :ponders:
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17:38 < ParahSail1n> what was delinquent whining about?
17:38 < ParahSail1n> so was that supercooling chiller i linked within anyone's expertise to build?
17:39 < ParahSail1n> i need to cool water to -2 C in liquid state
17:45 <@kanzure> haha last time i fixed yaml syntax errors was 2011-11-23
17:50 <@kanzure> okay database is being reconstructed
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18:02 < Zhwazi> Does it have to be pure water? You can make salt water that cold.
18:02 <@kanzure> damn. python error 12 minutes in.
18:04 < juri_> just grabbed a pile of free books off of the side of the road. i was not aware that 'Neuromechanics of human movement" was the same category of book as 'its the great pumpkin, charlie brown'.
18:05 <@kanzure> maybe it's a trap. they knew you would take the books.
18:34 < juri_> i wonder what sort of psychology experiment that was..
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18:39 <@kanzure> juri_: much less nefaious than you think. garbage removal.
18:42 <@kanzure> damn, it crashed again. weirdness.
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19:04 <@kanzure> and again.
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19:22 <@kanzure> 4 seconds for yaml to parse. 17 minutes to process.
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20:13 <@kanzure> fenn: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/meetlog/people/ben_lipkowitz.txt
20:13 <@kanzure> Juul: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/meetlog/people/marc_juul.txt
20:13  * kanzure scratches his data glands
20:13 < Juul> kanzure, hah!
20:14 < Juul> what are the sources for all of this?
20:14 < Juul> mailing lists
20:14 < Juul> irc?
20:15 <@kanzure> manual data entry every day for every conversation since 2009
20:15 <@kanzure> about 14000 people
20:15 < Juul> woooow
20:19 <@bkero> wat
20:19 <@kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/meetlog/people/ben_kero.txt
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20:22 < Juul> it's like a public PRISM for kanzure
20:22 <@kanzure> yeah i've had this stalklog for a few years now
20:22 <@kanzure> it's my anti-NSA
20:23 < ParahSail1n> Zhwazi, yes its gotta be pure water
20:23 < ParahSail1n> supercooling is pretty common
20:23 < Juul> 18	cats
20:23 < Juul> :)
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20:25 <@kanzure> Juul: open source nsa
20:26 < Juul> that's awesome
20:26 < Juul> i seem to have two files
20:26 < Juul> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/meetlog/people/marc_christoffersen.txt
20:27 <@kanzure> that's because i never knew that
20:27 < Juul> :)
20:27 <@kanzure> gee i wish my system would be able to figure that out
20:27 <@kanzure> maybe by tag profiling
20:28 <@kanzure> tag fingerprinting
21:22 <@fenn> you should also be able to (manually) collapse similar tags, for instance "unity" and "unity3d" probably mean the same thing
21:23 <@fenn> ah namespaces
21:24 <@fenn> i guess it can get confusing, since "processing" means something totally different than "processes"
21:26 <@fenn> maybe you already have this capability
21:30 <@fenn> i should dump this into the meta keywords on my homepage
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23:58 < jonathan_> hey max
23:58 < jonathan_> " These findings indicate that extensive genetic engineering of human hematopoiesis can be achieved with lentiviral vectors"
23:58 -!- |egion [~legion@c-107-4-148-59.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:59 < jonathan_> "Lentiviral Hematopoietic Stem Cell Gene Therapy Benefits Metachromatic Leukodystrophy" Science DOI: 10.1126/science.1233158
--- Log closed Sun Jul 14 00:00:25 2013