--- Log opened Wed Jul 31 00:00:41 2013
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01:21 < archels> some interesting lectures http://videolectures.net/nips2012_laketahoe/
01:21 < archels> .title
01:21 < yoleaux> 26th Annual Conference on Neural Information Processing Systems (NIPS), Lake Tahoe 2012 - VideoLectures - videolectures.net
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03:46 < strangewarp> http://www.foc.us/ - Interesting, it looks like someone is selling a consumer-friendly transcranial electrical stimulation device... marketed towards gamers, of course.
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04:02 < archels> ha
04:02 < archels> The name "cepstrum" was derived by reversing the first four letters of "spectrum". Operations on cepstra are labelled quefrency analysis, liftering, or cepstral analysis.
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06:03 <@kanzure> tomkinsc: you receive negative a billion points for linking to scribd
06:03 <@kanzure> strangewarp: `and you receive -1000 for not paying attention whenever that was first linked months ago
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06:40 < strangewarp> having read the logs: ah
06:50 < strangewarp> oh interesting, I hadn't realized tdcs devices were /that/ cheap to make
07:05 < strangewarp> looks simple enough.. now I'm tempted to build one. hnn! probably in a few months.
07:06 <@kanzure> i don't recommend it
07:07 <@kanzure> you can get more precision out of ultrasound
07:07 <@kanzure> i feel like a broken mp3 player at this point
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09:05 <@heath> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/protocol/10.1385%2F0-89603-127-6%3A193
09:05 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag3/10.1385/0-89603-127-6%253A193.pdf
09:08 <@heath> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1385%2F0-89603-127-6%3A165.pdf#page-1
09:08 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/e45c56d52597576c01faacf2b4547f9a.txt
09:08 <@heath> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/protocol/10.1385%2F0-89603-127-6%3A193
09:08 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag3/10.1385/0-89603-127-6%253A193.pdf
09:09 <@heath> grr at my copy/paste skills
09:09 <@heath> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1385%2F0-89603-127-6%3A165.pdf
09:09 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/bb54f17b677390c0d88957494619ec07.txt
09:09 <@heath> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1385%2F0-89603-127-6%3A165
09:09 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/9acd94ee51b80b9976d2f2b2b628ddbb.pdf
09:13 <@heath> also relevant to these links: http://www.reddit.com/r/Scholar/comments/1je4rm/
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09:17 <@kanzure> paperfairy is infringing on paperbot, kill it with fires
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11:16 <@kanzure> hehe monoprice is selling pdms/abs filament spools now
11:29 <@bkero> Really?
11:29 <@bkero> That's pretty awesome.
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12:09 <@nmz787> kanzure: scribd isn't /that/ bad...
12:10 <@kanzure> scribd charges for access to anything past the second page
12:10 <@nmz787> i'm on the 3rd page
12:11 <@nmz787> just scrolled to the end
12:11 <@kanzure> shrug. i have heard reports of it charging for CC-NC content.
12:11 <@nmz787> it won't let me download without signing in, and maybe paying, i can't tell
12:11 <@nmz787> but a pdf is definitely in my browser
12:11 <@kanzure> if it is on your screen then you have already downlloaded it
12:11 <@kanzure> that's a png actually
12:12 <@nmz787> err
12:12 <@nmz787> yeah
12:12 <@nmz787> not a pdf
12:16 <@nmz787> "Tanner was himself a naturopathicdoctor, establishmentarian doctorseschewed the affair. Establishmentslike nothing so little as progress notestablished by themselves"
12:20 <@nmz787> kanzure: we could set up something like this fast... the guy fasted " and a little chatting with his public, the size of which would be familiar to a short-story writer on book tour to-day. "
12:20 <@nmz787> 'starving for synthesis' a hunger-strike on kickstarter to raise $ for DNA synthesis research
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12:21 <@nmz787> 'Nathan McCcorkle survives on nothing but water and primary literature'
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12:25 <@nmz787> "Decadeslater, studies would show that fast-ing followed by a high-fat diet wasas effective against seizures as manymodern anticonvulsants and thatvariants of the Allen Diet were ef-fective against diabetes. But Ameri-ca, then as now, preferred the prom-ise of the pill over a mod-i
12:25 <@nmz787> cation of menu."
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12:25 <@nmz787> whoops, I meant to edit the spaces into that
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12:37 <@nmz787> kanzure: searching monoprice for pdms comes up with no results
12:39 <@kanzure> hmm
12:44 < superkuh> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0019103513001644
12:44 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Wind%20driven%20capillary-gravity%20waves%20on%20Titans%20lakes%3A%20Hard%20to%20detect%20or%20non-existent%3F.pdf
12:46 <@fenn> kanzure: tDCS is safe, cheap, demonstrated to be beneficial. ultrasound is expensive/unobtainable, carries significant danger of accidentally frying parts of your brain, and nobody knows how to use it for good (yet). given these, how can you recommend ultrasound over tDCS?
12:47 <@kanzure> nobody has demonstrated a practical benefit of tdcs except new age bullshit
12:47 <@fenn> pretty sure they demonstrated increased learning rates
12:47 <@kanzure> whereas transcranial ultrasound has caused potentials in the motor cortex to move limbs and even whole whiskers
12:47 <@fenn> i can already move my limbs and whiskers
12:48 <@kanzure> the point of limb movement is that it's extremely obvious that the device is working
12:48 <@kanzure> (or not working)
12:48 <@fenn> if i wanted to induce a seizure, there are much safer methods
12:48  * kanzure puts on his placebo cap
12:49 <@kanzure> http://alittleleftofright.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/BeaniePropellerCap-.jpg
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12:50 <@nmz787> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/onc/journal/v30/n30/pdf/onc201191a.pdf
12:50 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fonc.2011.91
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12:50 <@nmz787> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/onc/journal/v30/n30/abs/onc201191a.html
12:50 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fonc.2011.91
12:50 <@nmz787> friggin
12:50 < delinquentme> whats the psycholgical effect observed in the netflix prize
12:51 <@kanzure> why
12:52 < delinquentme> I'm observing it happening in me right now
12:52 < delinquentme> every girl is a fucking perfect 10
12:52 <@nmz787> paid ezproxy triumphs! http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Fasting_vs_dietary_restriction_in_cellular_protection_and_cancer_treatment_from_model_organisms_to_patients.pdf
12:52 < delinquentme> im CRANKED
12:52 <@nmz787> delinquentme: maybe you're JACKED
12:52 < gradstudentbot> No no no no! Use your key commands!
12:52 <@fenn> delinquentme: you're wearing beer goggles?
12:52 <@nmz787> or STACKED
12:52 < delinquentme> nmz787, haha nah I'm not actually surfing any meds right now
12:53 < delinquentme> green tea at most
12:53 <@nmz787> i'm sure there's a primary lit article on green tea increasing libido
12:53 <@nmz787> there's even probably a meme to describe that
12:53 <@nmz787> 'given sufficient time, one can find vague references to almost any information desired, whether it's true or not'
12:54 <@nmz787> in fact, if it's on the internet, it's true
12:55 < gradstudentbot> I am completely satisfied with the size of my bench space.
12:55 <@fenn> gradstudentbot: i'm sure there's an article that shows you're right
12:55 < gradstudentbot> Who has the latest revisions on the paper?
12:56 <@fenn> delinquentme: are you talking about the napoleon dynamite problem?
12:57 < delinquentme> fenn, thats part of it
12:58 < delinquentme> lulzz got her number
12:58 < delinquentme> FUCK shes a Comp sci kid!?!?!
12:58 < delinquentme> AND SMOKING HOT
12:58 <@fenn> otherwise all i can think of is echo chamber
12:58 < delinquentme> just moved here.
12:59 < ThomasEgi> delinquentme, hot comp sci girl?.. chances are she's not into guys ;)
12:59 < delinquentme> hahahah
12:59 < delinquentme> nah dude I was geeking out w her she was all touchy n shit too
12:59 < delinquentme> GAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
12:59 < delinquentme> The world bends.
12:59 < ThomasEgi> someone divided by zero then.
13:00 <@kanzure> ...
13:00 <@nmz787> lol
13:01 <@fenn> delinquentme: how old are you anyway?
13:01 <@nmz787> if she's into delinquentme she's gotta be far out
13:01 < delinquentme> fenn 28
13:01 < delinquentme> hahah nmz787 PREaCH! hahah
13:01 <@nmz787> delinquentme: i woulda guess 24
13:01 < delinquentme> hahahaha
13:01 < delinquentme> so far death is losing
13:01 <@nmz787> lol
13:01 < delinquentme> well in the short term.
13:01 < delinquentme> ok srsly. focus.
13:02 <@fenn> we are all immortal
13:02 < delinquentme> *breathes*
13:02 <@fenn> delinquentme: go run around the block
13:02 < delinquentme> I DID!
13:02 < delinquentme> hahaha
13:02 < delinquentme> I fucking walked away from my computer and wallet
13:02 < delinquentme> stupid instincts
13:02 < gradstudentbot> Hey, does anyone have an extra undergrad?
13:02 <@kanzure> go stare at a blank wall for 5 hours
13:03 < delinquentme> do you feel alive?
13:03 < delinquentme> hahah
13:03 <@fenn> go hook your brain up to an electrode
13:03 < delinquentme> chemicalsssssss
13:03 < delinquentme> im shaking
13:03 < delinquentme> hahaha I LOVEEE ITTTT
13:03 <@kanzure> ugh
13:03 <@fenn> go learn to tapdance and tell us if it's faster than average after being tazed
13:04 <@kanzure> today we've learned that delinquentme doesn't know how to handle relationships or girls
13:04 <@fenn> no, we already knew he's a spazz
13:04 < delinquentme> hahahaha
13:04 < delinquentme> YESSSSSSSS
13:04 < ThomasEgi> my guess upon observing this conversation is: mankind tries to come up with drugs to get the same good feelings like being in a relationship. but without the breakup-pain.
13:05 <@kanzure> uh.. no.
13:05 <@nmz787> delinquentme: playing in traffic might be more edgy now
13:05 <@fenn> dodging cars is the new rock climbing?
13:06 <@nmz787> though that buzz is probably associated with evolving to do serial monogamy
13:06 < ThomasEgi> bouldering => lorrying?
13:06 <@nmz787> parkour
13:06 <@fenn> park whore?
13:06 <@kanzure> i don't really like it when delinquentme shows up to jizz all over everything in here
13:06 <@kanzure> but that's practically all he does
13:07 < delinquentme> ThomasEgi, nah I think the drugs we're after are for effects we want
13:07 < delinquentme> its not advantageous to be tweaking shaky and fight / flight when I'm trying to focus
13:08 <@fenn> hmm. are there any OTC beta blockers? propanolol isnt exactly available at the corner store
13:13 <@fenn> eucommia (chinese rubber tree) bark, one of the fifty fundamental herbs of TCM
13:18 <@fenn> come on, nobody knows anything about beta blockers besides me?
13:19 <@nmz787> wtf is that?
13:19 <@nmz787> beta particles?
13:19 <@fenn> le sigh
13:19 <@nmz787> jk
13:19 <@nmz787> but nothing specific comes to mind
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13:27 <@kanzure> nmz787: http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=107&cp_id=10724
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13:30 <@nmz787> fenn: have you ever used comsol?
13:30 <@kanzure> i've used comsol.
13:30 <@nmz787> i'm trying to find out what air turbulence looks like in an s curve
13:30 <@kanzure> i haven't done turbulence of anything in comsol
13:30 <@nmz787> eseentially which of these designs would lead to smoother flow
13:30 <@nmz787> http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=89028&title=3-26quot-3b-mk4-tdi-downpipe&cat=5519
13:30 <@nmz787> or http://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-2000-2001-2002-2003-VW-Jetta-TDi-high-flow-performance-converter-ALH-engine-/190731568056?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2c687cc3b8
13:31 <@nmz787> the first having less S shape
13:31 <@nmz787> so the path length on each side is different
13:31 <@nmz787> or opposite sides aren't equal at least
13:33 <@nmz787> kanzure: but I don't see PDMS listed anywhere there
13:33 <@nmz787> didn't you say pdms in the logs?
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13:35 <@kanzure> i might have. maybe i was wrong? i think it's entirely possible for me to be wrong about a thing.
13:36 <@nmz787> i think so
13:37 <@nmz787> using paperbot is like gambling, as it's succesful results seemed to have changed since last week
13:37 <@nmz787> paperbot: http://nar.oxfordjournals.org/content/17/17/6959.abstract
13:37 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1093%2Fnar%2F17.17.6959
13:37 <@kanzure> well, someone needs to fix it
13:38 <@kanzure> i have been astounded by the amount of lazy in this channel
13:38 <@kanzure> you should all be ashamed in yourselves
13:39 <@nmz787> kanzure: did you ever get this series somehow sometime? http://www.springer.com/series/126
13:40 <@nmz787> paperbot: http://www.springer.com/chemistry/organic+chemistry/book/978-3-211-81255-6
13:40 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/40afa26e37bd4c84832b39081d77f3.txt
13:41 <@kanzure> i don't remember
13:46 <@nmz787> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-7091-7083-0_6
13:46 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/c0c998c8aa37db694f645fe45d279eb5.txt
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14:11 <@nmz787> fenn no input on S curve vs half S curve turbulence?
14:19 <@nmz787> kanzure: facebook ping
14:19 <@kanzure> shouldn't you be doing dna things
14:19 <@kanzure> why facebook ping
14:19 <@fenn> larger radius turns have less turbulence.. however the air will take a path of least momentum change so D shaped cross sections are best. are you seriously modeling your car's exhaust in comsol? do something useful
14:20 <@fenn> fwiw the second one looks higher quality
14:21 <@nmz787> they;re made by same manufacturer, but the second is a different design
14:21 <@nmz787> bith mandrel bent
14:21 <@nmz787> both
14:21 <@nmz787> this problem /does/ seem easier than microfluidics shit
14:21 <@nmz787> since I only care about the turbulence
14:21 <@fenn> it's pretty much a solved problem
14:22 <@nmz787> though I guess i could add heat transfer
14:22 <@nmz787> but I don't have any comsol experience
14:22 <@nmz787> i watched an hour lecture on youtube
14:22 <@kanzure> i don't understand the facebook thing
14:22 <@kanzure> where am i supposed to be looking
14:22 <@nmz787> kanzure: a soul needs help with getting a job, doesn't know how to code
14:22 <@nmz787> i mentioned you
14:23 <@nmz787> should be in the earth icon
14:23 <@kanzure> it didn't seem to ping me
14:23 <@nmz787> huh
14:23 <@nmz787> maybe you're signed into some pseudonomous account?
14:23 <@kanzure> i am signed into facebook.com/kanzure
14:24 <@fenn> btw nmz787 the length of the pipe changes the resonance frequency, which affects at what speed you get the best efficiency/power
14:24 <@fenn> most older cars are tuned for 55 mph which is sort of slow these days
14:25 <@nmz787> i think not in this case fenn since this is post-turbo
14:25 <@nmz787> heard it chops up that
14:25 <@fenn> oh right, TDI, duh
14:26 <@nmz787> seems by upsizing at most i'll achieve lower exhaust temps and thus increase lifespan of turbo
14:26 <@nmz787> since i'm not adding turbo upgrades or bigger injectors or a chip tune
14:29 <@fenn> shh dont tell ybit
14:30 <@fenn> i lost interest in piston engines when i learned about turbonique and realized the whole industry is fake
14:31 <@bkero> fenn: How about six strokes?
14:31 <@fenn> i dont even know what that is or why it would matter
14:31 <@fenn> heat scavenging?
14:31 <@bkero> efficiency
14:32 <@fenn> yeah, diesel is interesting from an efficiency standpoint, but that's not what most car hobbyists are trying to do
14:33 <@nmz787> atkinson cycle is close
14:33 <@nmz787> but you can't double the hp and torque in a prius like you can with this car
14:34 <@fenn> or maybe this is something like an internal combustion stirling engine
14:34 <@nmz787> (with aforementioned mods)
14:34 <@nmz787> not including a new clutch and flywheel to take the power
14:34 <@nmz787> which i just changed 2 years ago
14:36 <@fenn> you'll still get spanked by any stock motorcycle
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14:41 <@nmz787> yeaa but i do like the cage around me in the car
14:45 <@fenn> the way i see it, you're never going to beat the efficiency of a nuclear/solar/wind powered electric car, and you're never going to beat the power density of rockets (until we get artificial gravity generators) so piston engines are somewhere in the middle
14:45 <@fenn> why not just put rockets on your electric car, with a recuperative diesel cruise engine
14:47 <@nmz787> >|
14:47 < gradstudentbot> I'll be at the microscope.
14:47 <@fenn> the only sticking point is whether you need to drag the cruise engine around with you all the time, or you're able to plan on cross-country journeys beforehand
14:50 <@fenn> re tDCS:
14:50 <@fenn> Applying the electrodes to the prefrontal cortex can improve learning and increase your working memory.
14:50 <@fenn> Applying them to the motor cortex can raise your threshold for pain and make you more adept with your nondominant hand.
14:50 <@fenn> Position them above the posterior portion of the left perisylvian area (in right-handed people) and they can facilitate language acquisition.
14:50 <@fenn> Stimulation of the parietal cortex can improve numerical reasoning.
14:51 <@kanzure> i don't think those are easily tested at all
14:51 <@kanzure> numerical reasoning could mean anything
14:52 <@kanzure> threshold for pain is not something i'm interested in testing
14:52 <@fenn> name something beneficial that is easy to measure
14:52 <@kanzure> it doesn't have to be beneficial. you just need something equivalent to an "on" light that works.
14:52 <@kanzure> s/light/indicator
14:52 <@fenn> please elaborate
14:53 <@kanzure> beneficial stuff comes later
14:53 <@fenn> oh, i see, like the blinking LED hello world
14:53 <@fenn> but for brain hacking
14:53 <@kanzure> oscilloscope can check if it's "working" but that doesn't tell you if it is working..
14:55 <@fenn> how about phosphenes, would that be objective enough?
14:56 <@kanzure> yes, that would be fine
14:56 <@fenn> well, that's an observed "side effect"
14:57 <@kanzure> in other words.. not targetable?
14:57 <@fenn> oh, "if the electrode is placed near the eye" so it's not proof of a change in brain activity
14:57 <@kanzure> without targeting i'm not sure what you expect to be able to do with a tdcs cap once you see a phosphene
14:58 <@kanzure> haha what. i'm p. sure i've heard of other tdcs/phosphene things before that were not that.
14:59 <@fenn> okay say you put your electrode on V1 and see phosphenes, does that change your opinion of tDCS?
14:59 <@kanzure> no, i was already aware of phosphene reports
15:00 <@fenn> then you're just willfully ignoring what you already know
15:00 <@kanzure> you were the one asking for something to measure
15:00 <@kanzure> so let's flip this around for a sec
15:00 <@kanzure> with tdcs your plan is to get a bunch of electrodes, get some skull coordinate system, probably stereotactic something system
15:00 <@kanzure> then record where you put the electrodes and what current you're using
15:00 <@kanzure> and then write down what effects you experience?
15:01 <@kanzure> or are you planning on targeting specific cubic volumes of bran matter somehow
15:01 <@kanzure> or what's the plan here
15:01 <@fenn> no, most effects would be difficult to notice
15:01 <@fenn> if my language acquisition rate went up, i have no clue how that would affect my subjective experience
15:02 <@kanzure> what was that story about a tms setup that was able to switch someone's auditory-verbal understanding on/off
15:02 <@kanzure> it was something. it wasn't vision going on/off..
15:02 <@fenn> oh totally, but TMS works by inhibiting areas
15:03 <@kanzure> different areas of the brain work differently based on what you mean by inhibiting.. for instance, thinking correlates to inhibition.
15:03 <@kanzure> (positively, in the upward direction)
15:03 <@nmz787> kanzure: i told my friend to come in here on webchat
15:03 <@kanzure> okay i will be extra mean
15:03 <@kanzure> oh you mean your jobless friend
15:03 <@fenn> erm. there's a difference between increasing activity in an area, and overwhelming normal activity with noise
15:03 <@kanzure> what did you want me to do?
15:04 <@fenn> tell him to send a resume in .doc format with embedded malware
15:05 <@nmz787> he needs to realize he's not stupid and can learn to make good money coding
15:05 <@nmz787> he had autism/aspergers supposedly when we were kids
15:05 <@fenn> uh, autism doesn't magically go away when you grow up
15:05 <@nmz787> and i think his mom was overprotective or something, and ruined his confidence
15:05 <@nmz787> fenn: shh
15:06 < EnLilaSko> A wrong diagnosis might
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15:06 <@kanzure> fenn: that would be a shitty deal. if it did.
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15:10 <@nmz787> kanzure: he said working from home on coding sounded like a scam
15:11 <@kanzure> hahah
15:11 <@kanzure> ahahaha
15:12 <@nmz787> thats when i mentioned your name but i guess you can't see it for some reason
15:12 <@kanzure> need to use @
15:12 <@kanzure> or something. i don't use facebook often.
15:12 <@nmz787> no it autocompleted your name in the comment
15:13 <@kanzure> so he's saying that i'm the one being scammed?
15:14 <@heath> nmz787: at some point it's up to the other person to decide what they want to do
15:14 <@fenn> well working from work on coding is also an option
15:14 -!- makoLime [~mako@103-9-42-133.flip.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
15:14 <@kanzure> how is office life less of a scam?
15:14 <@kanzure> it seems like more of one
15:15 <@fenn> hey at least you don't have to pay for office space
15:15 <@kanzure> "Show up to an office, commute for hours every day, and get paid less"... how is that less of a scam..
15:15 <@kanzure> hahah
15:15 <@kanzure> "also you need to pay us $100/week for your desk"
15:15 <@kanzure> (that variant is called coworking)
15:16 <@fenn> but coworking is hip and trendy
15:16 <@fenn> everyone's doing it, how could it be a scam?
15:20  * heath is looking for just one epigenetic mark
15:20 <@heath> a name prease
15:20 <@kanzure> "At Scamerica Industries, the opportunities are boundless"
15:20 <@kanzure> ask nmz787. he did lots of epigenetic methylation stuff i think.
15:20 <@heath> nmz787: can you name just one epigenetic mark?
15:21 <@heath> h3k27me3
15:21 <@heath> got it
15:22 <@fenn> heath: what is an epigenetic mark?
15:22 <@heath> proteins which encode instructions for dna to be compacted further or read
15:23 <@heath> fenn: this woman mentions "epigenetics" at least 100 times in a 15min talk
15:23 <@heath> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTBg6hqeuTg&list=WL30BBA7FB07F4331D
15:23 <@heath> .title
15:23 < yoleaux> Epigenetics and the influence of our genes: Courtney Griffins at TEDxOU - YouTube
15:24  * heath was eating dinner and watching the video
15:24  * heath returns to other readings while not looking at a computer screen
15:25 <@fenn> what the hell, youtube-dl doesn't work on ted videos
15:25 <@kanzure> youtube-dl --upgrade
15:26 <@fenn> hm weird it works if i delete the &list= part of the url
15:26 <@kanzure> fenn: so, the only other complaint i have about the proposed method is that you can't really use information found in papers to inform your electrode positioning choices, since targeting isn't really doable yet. there was one paper that did some targetting.. maybe i should go review that.
15:26 <@fenn> you have to change your paradigm of "targeting"
15:27 <@fenn> obviously you're never going to turn on a single cell, that isn't the point
15:27 <@kanzure> i don't mean stereotactic maps are impossible, but rather that given a name of a mm^3 region of brain goo, you can't do much with that.
15:27 <@fenn> the whole idea is you're upregulating the activity of a broad area
15:27 <@kanzure> i don't think you need a single cell, definitely
15:27 <@fenn> believe it or not different swaths of brain do different things
15:27 <@kanzure> yes, well, hitting 30% of the brain in a single blast isn't very useful
15:28 <@fenn> i disagree
15:28 <@kanzure> wh?
15:28 <@kanzure> *why?
15:28 <@fenn> increasing activity in 30% of the brain is useful
15:28 <@fenn> see above list of benefits
15:28 <@fenn> and it seems to be slightly more accurate than that
15:29 <@kanzure> yeah, i pulled the number out of my ass, i don't actually know which number i would be happy about
15:30 <@fenn> fMRI may not be as good as fluorescent calcium reporters in zebrafish, but it works on live humans and doesn't do any damage
15:30 <@kanzure> i think it was http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/tdcs/A%20novel%20array-type%20transcranial%20direct%20current%20stimulation%20(tDCS)%20system%20for%20accurate%20focusing%20on%20targeted%20brain%20areas%20-%202011.pdf
15:30 <@fenn> just because the tools we have aren't perfect doesn't mean we should never use them
15:30  * fenn mumbles about triple negatives
15:31 <@fenn> yeah i don't believe that paper
15:31 <@kanzure> what do you not believe about it?
15:32 <@fenn> it treats the brain an an isotropic medium, but tensor imaging shows that's obviously not the case, and further that the structure is different between individuals
15:33 <@kanzure> the structure is different but they were using the scan of a single brain and i think their study was w.r.t that model
15:33 <@kanzure> so that point isn't valid. i think it's okay if we demand everyone gets a brain scan before stimulating it.
15:33 < gradstudentbot> Did you order the carbon nanotubes yet?
15:33 <@fenn> also, even with their bogus assumptions, the specificity still sucks
15:33 < gradstudentbot> If I was your endoplasmic reticulum, would you want me smooth or would you want me rough?
15:34 <@kanzure> i agree that different regions of the brain are more conductive than others, and you can probably measure that under fMRI..
15:35 <@fenn> pretty sure they just scanned for geometry. see section II-A "since the inhomogeneous electrical conductivity distribution of a
15:35 <@fenn> fucking pdfs
15:35 <@fenn> human head cannot be estimated accurately even with the
15:35 <@fenn> currently best imaging modalities, we used widely accepted
15:35 <@fenn> effective electrical conductivity values of head structures.
15:36 <@kanzure> that probably means skin/scalp/bone stuff and not the brain matter
15:36 <@fenn> yes, it does
15:36 <@fenn> but it shows they didnt even try to measure the brain conductivity itself, or weren't aware of it
15:36 <@kanzure> i'm sure someone has tested the electrical conductivity between regions of the brain
15:36 <@kanzure> and if they haven't then we should get the backyard brains guys to do that with some rabbit/cat brain or something
15:36 <@kanzure> or rhesus brain.
15:37 <@kanzure> i bet you could make an automatic test apparatus that rotates the brain and changes probe insertion points or something
15:37 <@fenn> and anyway, even if you do have a perfect model of a bowl of salty jello, you're never going to be able to focus DC on a single point that isn't close to the surface
15:38 <@fenn> it's just not in the equations
15:39 <@nmz787> the only epigenetics i've followed is the starving while pregnant influencing insulin regulation in next generation
15:39 <@nmz787> figure it might impact me since my mom was bulemic during my carriage
15:40 <@fenn> cool
15:40 <@fenn> so you are like an X-men mutant or something?
15:42 <@kanzure> fenn: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/664a7fef7c56221148ab75759d29f431.pdf
15:43 <@fenn> wah, reading is too hard
15:44 <@fenn> someone get to work on artificial genetic memory
15:44 <@fenn> what's the epigenetic differential for "expert neuroscientist"
15:48 <@kanzure> i regret naming files with random hashes
15:48 <@kanzure> why the fuck did you guys let me get away with that
15:49 <@fenn> didn't know they were random until too late
15:49 <@fenn> why didnt you at least use md5?
15:50 <@kanzure> no clue.
15:50 -!- cpopell_ [47fff18b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.255.241.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
15:51 < anannie> I love this channel
15:51 < anannie> I can't remember the last time I was being challenged like this...
15:52 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:54 <@kanzure> fenn: the other complicating factor- besides just randomly testing different electrode configuration- is that different stimulation patterns are different, and then you have to go through the whole test battery again.
15:54 <@kanzure> fenn: this is partly why i think targeting helps with informed decisions about what stimulation to try
15:54 <@kanzure> superkuh: how would you pick what to stimulate?
15:55 <@fenn> "different stimulation patterns" meaning multiple areas at the same time?
15:55 <@kanzure> i meant duration/timing
15:55 <@fenn> or do you mean stuff like tACS
15:55 <@kanzure> wave shape stuff
15:55 <@kanzure> erm, i mean, timing function
15:55 <@fenn> sure, same thing more or less
15:55 <@kanzure> yeah, in the case of tACS it would be wave shape
15:56 <@fenn> let's make up a new acronym, tPCS
15:56 <@fenn> tMCS
15:56 <@fenn> no that's too close to TMS
15:56 < gradstudentbot> Are there any of those hamster ovaries left?
15:56 <@kanzure> acronyms are dumb. transcranial dc is really obvious.
15:57 <@fenn> any electrical engineer knows there's a world of difference between steady-state DC and some kind of pulse train or waveform with a positive bias
15:57 <@fenn> but they're both technically "DC" so it's ambiguous
15:59 <@fenn> if we're going to try to reduce the parameter space, we need to use some theory. in (ahem) "on intelligence" the idea that all cortical cells are pretty much the same means we can search for the optimal stimulation waveform and use it on any area
16:00 <@fenn> if you're targeting non-cortex then you have to re-do the waveform tests..
16:00 <@kanzure> there are different regions of the brain that operate very distinctly. some are sparse ensemble encoders that work via inhibitory neurons. others are just the opposite.. i don't see your point.
16:00 <@fenn> i didn't say the whole brain was the same, just the cortex
16:00 <@kanzure> there are many cortexes yo
16:01 <@fenn> bah
16:02 <@fenn> anyway the number of permutations and the testing time are too big and sloppy to feasibly brute force
16:02 <@kanzure> somatosensory cortex, primary motor cortex, auditory cortex, blah blah blah
16:02 <@kanzure> yes, i agree
16:03 <@fenn> anannie: did you decide on a project yet? you wouldn't want to end up like me
16:03 < anannie> fenn: I'm building a hexapod this week
16:04 < anannie> I've been busy with work, so the building bit hasn't happened
16:04 < anannie> but I'm gonna build it
16:04 <@fenn> did you know lego used to have pneumatic components?
16:04 < poppingtonic> has anyone considered studying the relationship between isotropic temperature (through IR emission) regions in the entire nervous system and sensations?
16:04 < anannie> fenn: It still does
16:05 < anannie> fenn: I used to have those
16:06 <@fenn> ouch. well if you can't afford $10 per cylinder, you can use syringes
16:07 < anannie> fenn: Syringes have issues with the gasket breaking down after regular use...
16:09 <@kanzure> fenn: using the same waveform on any region of the brain isn't going to work. can you think of something else?
16:09 <@fenn> poppingtonic: it has more to do with blood flow than temperature, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FNIR
16:09 <@kanzure> there are many studies about different types of neurons and how they behave to different stimulation (while in a dish)
16:09 <@kanzure> so if there's some way that information could be used to make informed decisions somewhere else, that would be useful
16:10 <@fenn> but cortex is mostly pyramidal neurons
16:10 < anannie> poppingtonic: Why did you specify isotropic, btw?
16:10 <@fenn> so who cares what's in the blob of the day
16:11 <@fenn> isotropic usually means the blackbody is in temperature equilibrium (i think)
16:13 <@fenn> or maybe there are crystals that emit directionally?
16:15 <@kanzure> what would the plan be for the problem space anyway? this is a very combinatorial problem. more than there are potential test subjects.
16:15 < poppingtonic> anannie: Because of how information travels between neurons.
16:15 < anannie> poppingtonic: That's a gradient right?
16:16 <@fenn> kanzure: so you're assuming tDCS/tACS has a permanent effect
16:16 <@kanzure> no
16:17 < poppingtonic> anannie: yeah. My explanation is quite lengthy, I'll have to put it up on refheap.
16:17 <@fenn> "A body in the cavity is at thermal equilibrium with the thermal isotropic radiation inside the cavity temperature T of its surrounding." mumble grumble
16:17 <@kanzure> i can imagine effects that last for a few seconds during stimulation, that last for a few minutes after stimulation, that last a few hours after stimulation, some that are permanent, others that occur only after 20 minutes of stimulation and only then for 15 seconds, etc.
16:18 <@kanzure> this is why i think we need to be able to model parts of the brain and then predict what stimulation will do, or ways to break its normal operation
16:18 <@kanzure> and then repeat that in a physical test
16:18 <@fenn> i bet most of the effects are of duration 1-2 days and don't appear for several hours
16:19 <@fenn> since it seems to be based on genetic transcription (for tDCS at least, dunno about tACS)
16:19 <@kanzure> transcription..? according to a paper?
16:20 <@fenn> yeah haven't you read any of the papers? supposedly it activates BDNF (a protein hormone)
16:20 <@kanzure> i have been occupied with a totally different set of things in working memory today
16:22 <@fenn> but there could be other mechanisms at work in addition to BDNF
16:22 <@fenn> want to study it? add another 1000 free parameters to your testing regime
16:25 <@fenn> poppingtonic: also considering that the only source of energy in the brain is oxygen, fMRI is mathematically equivalent to your idea, since burning more oxygen means more energy is emitted
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16:28 < poppingtonic> fenn: there's another source of energy: light from the eyes. I think this is overlooked.
16:28 <@fenn> um, what?
16:28 < poppingtonic> https://www.refheap.com/17074
16:29 <@fenn> are you a breatharian?
16:29 < poppingtonic> what is that?
16:29 <@fenn> uh, it doesn't matter
16:30 <@fenn> anyway you're vastly overestimating the signal to noise ratio available from (non-calorimeter) temperature measurements
16:31 <@fenn> let's make it easy, say you have a slice of neural tissue culture firing away on a microscope slide, and you point your microbolometer array at it
16:32 < poppingtonic> Oh, No no, I'm not a breatharian.
16:32 <@fenn> after a neuron fires, its temperature increases by, oh, let's say one microjoule
16:32 < poppingtonic> uh huh
16:33 <@fenn> hrm units units
16:34 <@kanzure> you should bug superkuh to say things about that
16:36 < poppingtonic> wow I just realized how speculative I was getting.
16:37 <@fenn> oh, water is 4.18J/g
16:37 <@fenn> degree
16:37 <@fenn> guh
16:38 <@fenn> i hate temperature units
16:39 <@kanzure> make your own
16:39 <@kanzure> and make sure it resolves to bits somehow
16:40 < poppingtonic> fenn: I understand how it would be extremely difficult to measure, since a synapse is such a tiny region of space, surrounded by a mass of (non-uniformly) heat-absorbent meat. I'd underestimated the s/n ratio. Some time in the future, maybe it'll be possible to run such an experiment and not get useless noisy data.
16:41 <@fenn> i'm not sure you'd ever get useful data out, even with perfect sensors
16:42 <@fenn> mostly because of the opacity of the skull, and of the brain itself
16:43 <@fenn> the CLARITY technique is useful because it makes the whole brain have the same refractive index (and thus it becomes clear to visible light)
16:43 <@kanzure> superkuh: ping
16:43 < poppingtonic> anannie: thanks for that link. Awesome.
16:44 <@kanzure> fenn: http://superkuh.com/library/Neuroscience/Lipid%20Membrane/A%20note%20on%20the%20local%20current%20associated%20with%20the%20rising%20phase%20of%20a%20propagating%20impulse%20in%20nonmyelinated%20nerve%20fibers_%20tasak.pdf
16:44 <@fenn> i'm not sure what the transmittance (opacity) spectrum of the brain looks like
16:45 <@fenn> kanzure: is this for calculating the temperature rise or what?
16:45 <@kanzure> sort of. i'm trying to find the things superkuh would say if he was here.
16:45 <@kanzure> this isn't exactly the reference i was hoping for. but his collection was stolen/deleted a few years ago.
16:46 <@fenn> there's a lot more energy dissipated beyond just ohmic heating
16:46 <@fenn> by "a lot" i mean miniscule amounts, but relatively larger
16:48 <@fenn> heh i just got the "make sure it resolves to bits" reference
16:49 <@kanzure> all temperature things can eventually be resolved as being something to do with entropy and bits
16:49 <@kanzure> (insert handwaving here)
16:49 <@fenn> what is the entropy of one hand waving
16:49 <@kanzure> 1
16:49 <@fenn> if a hand waves on the internet, does anybody care?
16:49 <@fenn> how many hands waving does it take to screw in a light bulb
16:50 < poppingtonic> kanzure it's 1/2
16:50 <@kanzure> well to be honest i was trying to get him to complain about my unitless value
16:50 <@fenn> all units are unitless, dude
16:51 < poppingtonic> we all know it's in bits..
16:51 <@fenn> it's like, natural
16:51 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:52 < gradstudentbot> You know, I can just do consulting.
16:53 <@fenn> GNU units doesn't have some of the weirder information theory units
16:53 <@kanzure> definitely a bug
16:54 <@kanzure> "Mechanical changes in squid giant axons associated with production of action potentials."
16:55 <@kanzure> "Rapid structural changes in nerve fibers and cells associated with their excitation process."
16:55 <@fenn> why is it "polycarbonate transmittance spectrum" has tons of graphs popping right up, but "neural tissue transmittance spectrum" is a bog of bogus results
16:57 <@kanzure> grr aptitude Fetched 1,314 MB in 1h 3min 51s (343 kB/s)
16:57 <@fenn> upgrading?
16:57 < poppingtonic> why polycarbonate?
16:58 <@kanzure> it wants me to remove openoffice.org-base.. i wonder if debian jessie is switching to freelibreoffice or whatever.
16:58 <@kanzure> yeah, i decided to make the jump from wheezy to jessie
16:58 <@fenn> poppingtonic: it's just a random optically clear material i picked
16:59 <@fenn> i haven't needed to use openoffice for, well, ever
16:59 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-99-214.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:59 <@fenn> if i need to preserve formatting in a .doc i use google docs and "save as"
17:00 <@kanzure> hehehe http://russian.alibaba.com/
17:00 <@fenn> why is that funny?
17:01 <@kanzure> it's like the best of the seedy crap the russians do, with the wide spectrum of bulk availability on everything of chinese alibaba
17:02 <@kanzure> "you want russian dna synthesizer? here you go, five dollar."
17:02 <@kanzure> also, i visited mom's shop the other day. i haven't been there in about 10 years.
17:02 <@fenn> poppingtonic: another minor error you made is that not all neurotransmitters are charge carriers, for example serotonin has no charge
17:02 < tomkinsc> paperbot: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=64354&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D64354
17:02 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1109%2F3.64354
17:03 <@kanzure> i'm not sure why she has a $50,000 saw http://www.ebay.com/itm/2006-Holz-Her-1485-Triathlon-edgebander-/281081500913?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4171c354f1
17:03 < poppingtonic> hmmm...
17:04 <@fenn> so paperbot definitely shouldn't redirect a request for ieee to scimag/get.php right?
17:04 <@kanzure> well.
17:04 <@kanzure> fenn: see pm
17:05 < poppingtonic> that was an error, yes.
17:05 <@kanzure> okay that's all
17:05 <@kanzure> i think uploading to libgen should be disabled for now
17:05 <@kanzure> it's a minor change to paperbot but nobody has done it yet
17:05 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o fenn] by ChanServ
17:05 <@kanzure> paperbot: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=64354&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D64354
17:05 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1109%2F3.64354
17:06 <@kanzure> oh also i don't know if ParahSail1n made it circumvent my ieee-login-url-fixer
17:06 < poppingtonic> kanzure: paperbot works that quickly? Me likey.
17:07 <@kanzure> poppingtonic: https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot
17:07 <@kanzure> poppingtonic: i'm in the middle of a rewrite into javascript
17:07 <@kanzure> actually cogitokat wrote a lot of javascript for this rewrite
17:10 <@kanzure> i guess she's busy playing dead at the moment
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17:10 < fenn> pardon the obvious question, where's the rewrite? last commit to paperbot.git was 22 days ago (in python)
17:10 <@kanzure> not public yet, i wanted to get the architecture right
17:11 < fenn> gah i have no idea how to use github anymore
17:11 <@kanzure> just ask
17:12 < fenn> i just couldnt figure out what to click on to see a diff
17:12 <@kanzure> i usually just type the url i want
17:13 <@kanzure> https://github.com/:username/:reponame/commit/:commit_id.diff
17:13 <@kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot/commit/b6977593cd222d6d30b58566cdb478c9d7466882.diff
17:13 < fenn> yeah well i just flip the switches in binary on front of my mainframe that runs the universe
17:14 < cogitokat> impressive
17:14 <@kanzure> you mean an IBM S/360? sure whatever man :)
17:14 < fenn> the S stands for "solipsist"
17:15 <@kanzure> i wouldn't like github at all if i couldn't just type out the urls i want
17:16 <@kanzure> meanwhile sourceforge is still http://project.cvs.viewcvsweb.sourceforge.net/cvsroot/cvs/project/viewcvs.cgi/cgi-bin/TRUNK/myfile.c?diff
17:16 < fenn> they get a dollar every time you type "cvs"
17:17 <@kanzure> don't let the javascript rewrite stop you from hacking paperbot into working.
17:17 <@kanzure> because this pile of javascript is only for fetching
17:18 <@ParahSail1n> hm i already started a rewrite
17:18 <@kanzure> i call it papermonk
17:18 <@kanzure> and then something else will get to be called paperpunk
17:19 < fenn> shouldnt it be paperjunk
17:19 <@kanzure> no
17:20 <@kanzure> man you just shot me down on those two names
17:20 <@kanzure> i thought i was doing good
17:20 < cogitokat> fenn doesn't understand ):
17:20 < fenn> i thought "j for javascript, p for python, m for ... "
17:21 <@kanzure> oh, yeah, i don't know how to mentally resolve that conflict
17:21 < fenn> but i couldn't think of any programming languages with M besides matlab and ML, and those didnt make any sense
17:21 <@kanzure> i started naming my git repos python-whatever.git and then it would provide a "whatever" python egg.
17:21 <@kanzure> but then what is papermonk? node-papermonk? it runs in browsers too, so what's so node about it?
17:23 < poppingtonic> what about Malbolge?
17:23 < poppingtonic> paperclunk (clojure)
17:23 <@kanzure> i don't want to write in clojure
17:24 < poppingtonic> um, what?
17:24 <@kanzure> huh?
17:24 < poppingtonic> everybody should want to write in clojure  :)
17:24 <@kanzure> the reason i chose javascript was because i could use my library to replace all of zotero's translators
17:24 <@kanzure> and then i can have zotero's 300,000 users maintain my scrapers for me
17:25 <@kanzure> imho their javascript infrastructure sucks a lot
17:25 <@kanzure> i don't think they even planned it out originally
17:25 <@kanzure> so the advantage of doing it this way is that i don't have to manually write scrapers for 300 academic publishers and their shitty html
17:25 < fenn> is it even possible to plan out a scraping system before you start?
17:25 <@kanzure> yeah
17:25 <@kanzure> zotero has shown that you don't require that many functions
17:26 <@kanzure> the way i have written the js version is highly modular
17:26 <@kanzure> each scraper is a separate module up on npmjs.org
17:26 < poppingtonic> whoever wants to write for specific publisher can do it themselves?
17:26 <@kanzure> and then there's a meta package (papermonk) that depends on all of those
17:26 < fenn> so are you rewriting zotero now?
17:26 <@kanzure> not quite
17:26 <@kanzure> zotero is still a firefox extension
17:26 < fenn> um, the zotero backend then
17:27 <@kanzure> sure. paperbot already does that in a few places. and why have both javascript and python doing the same thing?
17:27 < fenn> maybe this explains why i can't figure out what's going on in the existing codebase
17:27 <@kanzure> paperbot uses zotero translation-server to try zotero translators, then falls back to python, then falls back to scihub
17:27 <@kanzure> did you look at the README?
17:27 <@kanzure> the reason you don't understand it is because the code is a bunch of bullshit
17:27 <@kanzure> and poorly written
17:29 < fenn> i never actually looked at translation-server
17:29 <@kanzure> it's awful
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17:29 <@kanzure> to see it in action.. try this in python:
17:29 <@kanzure> import requests; import json; response = requests.post("http://gnusha.org:1969/web", data=json.dumps({"url": "http://www.nature.com/nnano/journal/v5/n10/full/nnano.2010.193.html", "sessionid": "what"}), headers={"Content-Type": "application/json"}); print response.content
17:30 <@kanzure> if you don't have requests then you are a bad person and should sudo pip install requests or sudo apt-get install python-requests
17:34 < fenn> is there a safer way of transforming json into a data structure besides 'eval'?
17:39 <@heath> JSON.parse
17:39 <@heath> /maybe?
17:43 < fenn> in python. i'm messing with json.loads() right now but it's being annoying
17:44 <@heath> ooh ipython, how i love thee
17:45 < fenn> "Since the JSON specs specifically state strings as Unicode simplejson should return Unicode objects." this is bullshit
17:46 < fenn> the whole point of JSON is readability, so adding u' to everything is just dumb
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17:47 < fenn> <-- ascii chauvinist
17:48 < fenn> maybe this is just a python issue, nevermind
17:49 <@kanzure> import simple json; simplejson.load()
17:49 <@kanzure> python3 is what you want
17:49 <@kanzure> u'' is just a unicode object and python3 fixes this
17:49 < fenn> right
17:50 < fenn> simplejson returns strings, whereas the json module returns unicode objects
17:52 < fenn> where do things like "volume":"5","pages":"712-717" come from?
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17:55 <@kanzure> fenn: those are directly from the zotero translators
17:55 <@kanzure> https://github.com/zotero/translators
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17:56 <@kanzure> there are many problems with these, like (1) they don't have a lot of unit tests, (2) it's really hard to run all of the tests and to see the status, (3) there's no test data other than fetching all the content each time (no fixture data of historical html to check if old stuff still works, in case they revert), (4) hard to run a url against them to see which ones claim to support that url, (5) impossible to use this outside the context of ...
17:56 <@kanzure> ... the zotero firefox extension (even though it's supposed to be normal javascript)
17:57 <@kanzure> example: https://github.com/zotero/translators/blob/master/ScienceDirect.js
17:57 <@kanzure> oh also (6) none of this follows modern javascript development practices
17:57 <@kanzure> and (7) it's non-obvious how to fix things without reading all of the zotero documentation, because of their wacky system
17:58 <@kanzure> "doWeb" is a terrible name.
17:58 <@kanzure> also (8) their scrapers- for whatever reason- directly call zotero functions that have nothing to do with scraping (wtf)
17:58 < fenn> not minifying your code would be a good step towards maintainability
17:58 <@kanzure> none of this is minified
17:59 <@kanzure> unless you found some?
17:59 < fenn> i'm looking at github.com/zotero/translators.git
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17:59 <@kanzure> in javascript land minified has a very specific meaning
17:59 < fenn> unction flatten(c){var b=new Array();for(var d in c){var e=c[d];if(e instanceof Ar
17:59 < fenn> ray){b=b.concat(flatten(e))}else{b.push(e)}}return b}var FW={_scrapers:new Array()};FW._Base=function(){this.call
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17:59 <@kanzure> where is that?
18:00 < fenn> National Archives of the United States.js and other places
18:00 < fenn> i just did "grep pages ./" and got reams of spew
18:00 <@kanzure> https://github.com/zotero/translators/blob/master/National%20Archives%20of%20the%20United%20States.js
18:00 <@kanzure> i like how it's not commented
18:01 <@kanzure> and at the end there's a Zotero.wait()... even better. :(
18:01 <@kanzure> haha they just have test urls in comments
18:01 < fenn> what do you think the /* FW LINE 51:6e1628381879 */ means?
18:02 <@kanzure> line number and commit id.. but i have no idea why.
18:02 < fenn> like, "this is what it looked like before we mangled the shit out of it"?
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18:02 <@kanzure> that isn't a commit id in its history https://github.com/zotero/translators/commits/master/National%20Archives%20of%20the%20United%20States.js
18:03 < fenn> it could be a commit in another repo
18:03 <@kanzure> not worth it
18:03 <@kanzure> this isn't salvageable
18:04 <@kanzure> ParahSail1n: what do you wanna do about the duplicate rewrites
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18:05 <@kanzure> i'll accept merging duties because it isn't like me to not publish a rewrite immediately
18:07 < fenn> poppingtonic: if you don't know about this, you might find it interesting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetoencephalography
18:13 < fenn> i wonder if google refine (formerly gridworks) would be the right way to go about creating translators
18:14 < fenn> i mean if it's going to be opaque auto-generated code anyway
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18:26 <@kanzure> it's not auto-generated
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18:32 <@ParahSail1n> nah, we'll go with your rewrite
18:33 <@kanzure> okay
18:47 <@ParahSail1n> is your rewrite going to try to keep some compatbility with zotero translators?
18:50 <@kanzure> no
18:50 <@kanzure> unless you be more specific?
18:51 <@ParahSail1n> nah, just checking
18:51 <@kanzure> i don't see a good way to do it
18:51 <@kanzure> i think zotero's translation framework needs to be an actual framework
18:52 <@kanzure> that uses commonjs to guide how they write things
18:53 <@kanzure> the upgrade to jessie destroyed or lost all of my gnome-terminal color preferences
18:53 <@kanzure> i guess that's what i get for using fucking gnome-terminal. what a terrible idea.
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19:00 <@nmz787> kanzure: how does this work? http://www.maxmax.com/aMagicMindRead.htm
19:00 <@nmz787> this is the explanation it gives, but I don't see any javascript
19:01 <@nmz787> http://www.maxmax.com/aMagicMindReading.htm
19:04 < cogitokat> um I think it changes all the cards d:
19:04 < yashgaroth> oh man that brings me back
19:06 < cogitokat> If you write down what all the cards are and then click through, all of them are different. It's just hard to keep track of the ones you did not pick.
19:06 <@kanzure> "As many as 24 players could be suspended as soon as Friday in the performance enhancing drugs scandal that is enveloping Major League Baseball."
19:09 <@kanzure> hahah "Former Biogenesis employee Porter Fischer tried to sell Yankees star Alex Rodriguez documents for $1 million
19:10 <@kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biogenesis_of_America "Several employees quit in the fall of 2012 after they were not paid"
19:10 <@kanzure> beautiful
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19:12 <@kanzure> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Biogenesis/509527172397628
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20:25 <@nmz787> i made a 90 degree bent tube in autodesk http://imgur.com/4mKBteB,FqbLDJm
20:26 <@nmz787> processing in comsol now with turbulent flow setting
20:26 <@nmz787> had to transfer it via iges, because the autodesk version is too new
20:40 <@nmz787> well this isn't simple
20:55 <@kanzure> is this for the car or for the other machine
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21:00 <@nmz787> well just trying things
21:01 <@nmz787> there's a demo of water in a pipe that has a lot more crap than I woulda thought to add to the comsol menu list thing
21:18 <@nmz787> seems like it's gonna take a while to solve
21:23 -!- nicedice [~nicedice@unaffiliated/nicedice] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
21:23  * heath sucks at regex
21:24 <@kanzure> chances are high that regex is the wrong choice anyway
21:25  * heath fetches http://libgen.info/view.php?id=897897
21:25 <@heath> if you're in python, correct
21:26 <@heath> if you're using the immature node ecosystem, and you don't have a decent robotsparser...
21:27 <@kanzure> how about require("robots")
21:28 <@heath> hah
21:29 < klafka> man it seems to me that # of cores hasn't really kept pace with amount of memory needed
21:29  * klafka really wants an ec2 instance with 256gb of ram
21:30 <@kanzure> maybe you are just buying the wrong computers
21:30 < klafka> i'm not buying computers
21:30 <@kanzure> i think jrayhawk recently acquired himself a 32 core thing?
21:30 < klafka> well i have a 32 core machine
21:30 < klafka> but only 144gb ram
21:31 < klafka> that's only 4.5gb per core
21:32 < klafka> wow wait nvm
21:32 < klafka> they upgraded them to 244
21:32 < klafka> oh cool
21:32 < klafka>   Mem[||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||226053/245751MB]  :(
21:36 < valyap> we should genetically engineer some bacteria
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22:17 < klafka> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/07/oakland-accepts-federal-funds-for-controversial-vast-surveillance-setup/
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23:20 < AshleyWaffle> http://www.foc.us/
23:22 <@kanzure> check the logs, etc..
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--- Log closed Thu Aug 01 00:00:42 2013