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03:54 < plur> it may be slower
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08:57 < kyknos> paperbot, http://www.nature.com/nsmb/journal/v16/n2/full/nsmb.1550.html
08:57 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fnsmb.1550
08:57 < archels> .title
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09:08 < archels> .title
09:08 < yoleaux> archels: Sorry, that command (.title) crashed.
09:08 < archels> .title http://ddg.gg
09:09 < yoleaux> archels: Sorry, that command (.title) crashed.
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09:20 < kanzure> archels: i'm p. sure that command was disabled by the kind folks in #swhack
09:29 < archels> yeah, one of whom was kind enough to re-enable it
09:29 < archels> but evidently it's broken anyway
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11:55 < EnLilaSko> paperbot: http://www.brainstimjrnl.com/article/S1935-861X%2812%2900199-4/fulltext
11:55 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/421187e4d34068b9d57dda6e17f71a9f.txt
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15:36 < Dantespeaks> What area of science will maximize your potential for expanding your intellect by use of nanotechnology?
15:36 < Dantespeaks> Neuroscience?
15:36 < Dantespeaks> Artificial Intelligence?
15:36 < Dantespeaks> (be it far future)
15:37 < Dantespeaks> (a pursuit of study will help connect the dots if you know the essential stuff related to it?)
15:37 < Dantespeaks> (be it 30 years from now.)
15:38 < Dantespeaks> i just skimmed through the singularity is near and i want to devote myself to a study relating to self-enhancement.
15:41 < ua> Dantespeaks, depends, it all will be useful just in different way and it will intertwine too
15:42 < ua> nootropics, you can have genetically engineered plants that produce them, you can have implants in brain that overclocks it directly
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15:43 < ua> you could genetically engineer neurons to be more efficient
15:44 < ua> you could create nanobots that replace you neurons but can interface with already exisitng ones
15:44 < ua> but are augmented and work in totally different ways
15:44 < ua> nanobots/nanomachines whatever
15:45 < Dantespeaks> so in order to understand the funamentals of this better, or when such age comes about, what study will give me the edge?
15:45 < Dantespeaks> neuroscience? the understanding of the brain as much as possible?
15:45 < Dantespeaks> or artificial intelligence?
15:46 < ua> knowing about it all and entrepreneurship
15:46 < Dantespeaks> i think nanotechnology will be like a pc... designed and manufactured and people with money can access.
15:46 < ua> make a billion dollars on some cool piece of tech and youre set
15:46 < Dantespeaks> but understanding the self (brain) is a different story
15:47 < Dantespeaks> yeah i guess making loads of money and informing yourself is the way to go
15:47 < Dantespeaks> but if you want to study in detail, what would be more advantageous...
15:47 < ua> Dantespeaks, yea problem with biotech and nanotech are computer power to simulate what actually happens to this stuff in the body etc
15:47 < ua> i mean in the future
15:48 < Dantespeaks> i guess A.I will mostly maintain the control in this
15:48 < ua> nah AI is bullshit
15:48 < Dantespeaks> you think so?
15:48 < ua> biotech is the way
15:48 < Dantespeaks> the human brain project and all?
15:49 < Dantespeaks> ppl copying neocortex column of human brain with simulated neurons?
15:49 < ua> no just kidding, I'm working on my own AI and don't wanna competition
15:49 < ua> ;D
15:49 < Dantespeaks> it all relates, but... im saying as a human being, what can i learn to maximize my chances...
15:49 < Dantespeaks> ha
15:49 < ua> but seriously i'm dubious about AI
15:50 < ua> while working on it ...
15:50 < Dantespeaks> at this point in time, i think everyone is dubious...
15:50 < Dantespeaks> just not enough observation and data to support the evidence of prospect/emergence of A.I.
15:50 < ua> Dantespeaks, the very first thing you can do is take care of your meat
15:50 < Dantespeaks> it's like religion. hhahaa
15:50 < ua> exercise, healthy diet (paleo or  ketogenic diet)
15:51 < Dantespeaks> not good enough ua.
15:51 < ua> also martial arts so you won't die cuz some fucker with 90 IQ is aggressive
15:51 < ua> well psychomanipulation first on these types obviously
15:51 < Dantespeaks> well, i would prefer to create armour and weapons for self-defence. haha
15:51 < ua> yea but you got to get to the future first
15:52 < Dantespeaks> thats survival prepper stuff, minimal chances of it happening if you play it safe...
15:52 < Dantespeaks> so you're walking on the path of A.I?
15:52 < Dantespeaks> i don't know what to study for in college.
15:52 < ua> I'm not in college
15:52 < ua> sitting in my basement and coding something
15:53 < Dantespeaks> thats fine
15:53 < Dantespeaks> i mean it's part of a curriculum any way
15:53 < Dantespeaks> what should i go for....
15:53 < Dantespeaks> i dream about A.I but,
15:53 < Dantespeaks> it think it's more materials and money
15:53 < ua> yea that's what i'm afraid too
15:54 < ua> human brain project, blue brain etc
15:54 < ua> these fuckers have billions for hardware and other resources like people
15:54 < ua> 3000 ppl to work on something? no problema!
15:54 < ua> get 3000*
15:54 < ua> <
15:54 < ua> :< *
15:54 < Dantespeaks> henry markram ? IBM? human brain project got funded 1 billion last year or something
15:55 < ua> ye 1.6B for 10 years
15:55 < Dantespeaks> in division huh
15:56 < Dantespeaks> hope they make it, keeps saying 10 years and we can see A.I speak or something
15:56 < Dantespeaks> ok... going philosophically
15:56 < Dantespeaks> i think, ultimately, the study of 'self' (in scientific way)
15:56 < Dantespeaks> is the way to go
15:56 < ua> self is bullshit
15:56 < ua> illusion
15:57 < Dantespeaks> instead, duplicating the functions of 'self'
15:57 < ua> free will, consciousness it's all bullshit
15:57 < Dantespeaks> yeah i mean self-enhancement.
15:57 < ua> it's about designing architecture that will do the job
15:57 < ua> ah ok ;p
15:58 < Dantespeaks> aha! so you are suggesting, understanding of this architecture on self will contribute to creating the architecture for self-enhancement
15:58 < ua> anyway there's Intelligence Amplification too
15:58 < ua> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_amplification
15:58 < kanzure> 15:46 < Dantespeaks> i think nanotechnology will be like a pc... designed and manufactured and people with money can access.
15:58 < kanzure> what a pile of shit. anybody with the knowhow can make their own microchips.
15:58 < kanzure> 15:48 < Dantespeaks> the human brain project and all?
15:59 < kanzure> that's not what most people consider to be ai (they mean "not related to the human brain" most often)
15:59 < ua> Dantespeaks, no I was talking about AI as replication of human mind
15:59 < Dantespeaks> i see. but they have to start somewhere. human brain is a good model for bringing up consciousness, and later they can modify it
16:00 < ua> Dantespeaks, but IA imo it's just what software is doing
16:00 < ua> more functional software, new algos, faster hardware etc
16:01 < Dantespeaks> software needs to copy patterns of consciouness sprouting out from somewhere..
16:01 < Dantespeaks> so thats the human neo-cortex thing then?
16:01 < kanzure> uh..
16:02 < Dantespeaks> i dont know what im talking about you guys got me confused nvm
16:02 < ua> Dantespeaks, yea I guess it can work, problem is with computational power and teaching it anything useful
16:02 < Dantespeaks> i just want to know what i should study for college in preparation for the singularity
16:02 < ua> start realistic simulation and wait few years of gaga bubu
16:02 < ua> lel
16:02 < kanzure> maybe you should reconsider college and just do whatever it is you actually want to do
16:03 < kanzure> also you should reconsider consciousness, that idea has helped exactly nobody figure out brain emulation
16:03 < Dantespeaks> kanzure: how will i get the fundamental education? through internet? seems difficult.
16:03 < ua> Dantespeaks, http://blakemasters.com/peter-thiels-cs183-startup check this out
16:03 < kanzure> "fundamental education" is usually what primary shcool is for
16:04 < Dantespeaks> ua: that looks cool hahaha
16:04 < kanzure> it's not cool
16:04 < kanzure> it's just peter thiels saying the usual things
16:04 < kanzure> *thiel saying
16:04 < Dantespeaks> so i guess this guy is serious huh?
16:04 < kanzure> huh?
16:05 < Dantespeaks> yeah i guess so, i mean with all the emergence of powerful technologies coming about "extinction" could be near
16:05 < kanzure> that's called millenialism i think
16:05 < kanzure> and it's boring
16:06 < Dantespeaks> im choosing what i should be learning. there's bit of raves in my group of friends about the book "singularity is near."
16:06 < kanzure> it's not that great of a book
16:06 < Dantespeaks> ray kurzweil
16:06 < kanzure> you can learn more just reading the source maqterial instead of ray's interpretation
16:06 < kanzure> he basically read the extropy-chat and wta-talk mailing list archives for a few years and then just wrote a book or something
16:07 < kanzure> but essentially everything is just cited as "This one time, Anders said this..." which, tada, is really just from an email you can find from anders in one of those two email archives
16:07 < Dantespeaks> wow you sound like you know a lot about this stuff
16:07 < kanzure> fuck off
16:07 < Dantespeaks> huh?
16:07 < kanzure> what the heck type of comment is that
16:07 < kanzure> you know nothing about me
16:07 < kanzure> we've been talking for like 5 minutes dude
16:08 < Dantespeaks> well critizing so-called "genius" (kurzweil)
16:08 < Dantespeaks> that he basically wrote the damn book
16:08 < kanzure> anyone can write a book
16:08 < Dantespeaks> that appeared to have revolutionized -
16:08 < ua> Dantespeaks, lol
16:08 < kanzure> what?
16:08 < Dantespeaks> the understanding of ppl
16:09 < kanzure> you are telling me that you think that raymond kurzweil's book "revolutionized the understanding of people"?
16:09 < Dantespeaks> for a noob like me anyway. everyone has to start some where.
16:09 < Dantespeaks> so you must then know more if you are criticizing
16:09 < Dantespeaks> anyways-
16:09 < kanzure> a large amount of the content that ray kurzweil produces is media that is meant to be consumed as infotainment
16:10 < kanzure> it's his business model
16:10 < Dantespeaks> so im thinking of learning neuroscience. understandingn of self before i can branch off
16:10 < kanzure> you don't need college to do that
16:10 < Dantespeaks> and that makes money
16:10 < Dantespeaks> cool
16:10 < kanzure> most neuroscientists make slightly over minimum wage
16:11 < Dantespeaks> rip off of availiable info floating everywhere and inform people to sell tons of books and open up buncha seminars
16:11 < Dantespeaks> i dont care about money kanzure
16:11 < kanzure> i am starting to regret not kickbanning you immediately
16:11 < Dantespeaks> fuck off man
16:11 < Dantespeaks> whats your prob
16:11 < kanzure> nah it's cool
16:11 < Dantespeaks> sorry i ask stupid questions
16:11 < kanzure> well, seminars are a plague in these circles
16:12 < kanzure> they drain the community over and over again
16:12 < kanzure> most of the people cited in kurzweil's books ended up just making lots of seminars and conferences
16:12 < kanzure> (and doing nothing else)
16:13 < Dantespeaks> who is elizer yudkowsky from machine intelligence institute quoted in the book?
16:13 < Dantespeaks> you know?
16:13 < kanzure> yes i know eliezer
16:13 < Dantespeaks> is he on to something with A.I?
16:13 < kanzure> no
16:13 < kanzure> he writes fan fiction about ponies
16:13 < Dantespeaks> you know him personally?
16:13 < kanzure> and something about pandering to rationality-interested people
16:14 < kanzure> i've hung out with him once in a while, haven't seen him in a few years
16:14 < nalkri> Is that the lesswrong guy?
16:14 < JayDugger> Yes.
16:14 < kanzure> there are many lesswrong people
16:14 < JayDugger> One of them.
16:14 < nalkri> I'm scared of lesswrong, it contains basilisks
16:14 < Dantespeaks> where did i stumble into people knowing eachother from a book i've been adorning for the past six months
16:15 < Dantespeaks> interesting channel. :)
16:15 < JayDugger> Google, I expect.
16:15 < kanzure> Dantespeaks: there's a strong bias against lesswrong, eliezer and ray in here
16:15 < Dantespeaks> then it must mean there's something argumentally better here
16:16 < Dantespeaks> if you are critizing them
16:16 < Dantespeaks> or and understanding
16:16 < Dantespeaks> hplus = human enhancement
16:16 < Dantespeaks> ?
16:16 < Dantespeaks> so i guess i came to the right place. anyways, i know jack
16:16 < Dantespeaks> so i should choose a field and study
16:17 < kanzure> why?
16:17 < Dantespeaks> thinking of prescribing myself provigil ---im in reddit-nootropics
16:17 < Dantespeaks> because, im sorry to quote the ray's book but it doesn't seem like it's so far away
16:17 < Dantespeaks> like 30 years or something,
16:17 < JayDugger> Yeah, but so is fusion.
16:18 < kanzure> who cares though, fuck college
16:18 < kanzure> just do whatever you want and learn whatever the fuck you want
16:18 < Dantespeaks> i would imagine, if this biological neurons can be replaced away by nanotechnology,
16:18 < Dantespeaks> then everything is really confined in the laws of physics, (everything is quantifiable material)
16:18 < JayDugger> Don't wait for Santa Claus to bring you magic gadgets. He won't.
16:18 < Dantespeaks> even self,
16:18 < Dantespeaks> if so, in order to become the "best self"
16:18 < kanzure> JayDugger: i don't think he's going to understand that right now
16:19 < kanzure> JayDugger: considering he's been idolizing _that_ particular book for a while
16:19 < Dantespeaks> one must understand self, in order to enhance oneself in a quantifiable manner with the materials
16:19 < Dantespeaks> and by self-enhancement, enhancing specificially the intellect---
16:20 < Dantespeaks> so understanding the functions of the brain in more detail would be of use in the future was my conclusion reading that book
16:20 < JayDugger> Fair enough. That's a big topic, thoughl
16:20 < JayDugger> though.
16:20 < Dantespeaks> so then, are you guys saying it's gonna take longer than 30 years or may never happen?
16:21 < kanzure> who cares? your plans should not rely strongly on a singularity happening. you should plan accordingly to make use of your time eithre way.
16:21 < kanzure> *either
16:21 < JayDugger> I don't know how long it will take.
16:21 < JayDugger> I don't know if it's possible.
16:21 < JayDugger> Do what you can to make it happen to the extent you think it is a good idea.
16:21 < Dantespeaks> im a strong believer in how my time is very limited. i have to focus on certain area of expertise and focus on it in order to get anywhere... can't be all at once...
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16:22 < JayDugger> True enough.
16:22 < kanzure> i disagree, that might just be laziness
16:22 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/declaration/
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16:23 < Dantespeaks> ooo there's a declaration. it's like the constitution for transhumanists. rofl
16:24 < kanzure> no
16:24 < kanzure> a constitution is a completely different type of document
16:24 < Dantespeaks> im kidding.
16:25 < kanzure> that's like calling a dictionary a constitution
16:25 < Dantespeaks> so logical.
16:25 < kanzure> what?
16:26 < Dantespeaks> never you mind. you know anything about pascal programming language?
16:26 < kanzure> i don't recommend it
16:26 < Dantespeaks> whats with people saying it's a language made for "geniuses"?
16:27 < kanzure> there are many other languages worth learning that you should assign a higher priority
16:28 < kanzure> mostly because other languages have nailed down imperative/functional programming better, have greater numbers of third party libraries, and (if it matters to you) offer more employment opportunities (sometimes)
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16:32 < Dantespeaks> ok
16:32 < Dantespeaks> ty
16:36 < kanzure> i don't even remember if pascal had an active package repoistory.
16:36 < kanzure> *repository
16:36 < kanzure> looks like no
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21:31 < Dantespeaks> I don't know if anyone can answer this question, and no one is obligated to, but i'd like to try: (don't expect a intelligible response from your answers from me.) Must I learn MATLAB for computational neuroscience or can I focus solely on Python? (It seems python is leading the way with different packages of sort) but is MATLAB also necessary?
21:35 < Dantespeaks> nevermind, i guess it really depends on the use. I just don't want to divide any attention/focus learning two different things.
21:37 < Dantespeaks> My next research is on, what courses/degrees do I need to study in order to get into the computational neuroscience.
21:37 < Dantespeaks> This also depends on the uni, but generally speaking.
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22:09 < Dantespeaks> And i've found the answers. Thank you to self. :)
22:37 < abetusk> "type words about open source software..."
22:39 < Dantespeaks> if you create a bullet proof armour, would tensile strength matter more or the hardness of the armour?
22:39 < Dantespeaks> on it's metallic property?
22:39 < Dantespeaks> to deflect the bullet.
22:40 < Dantespeaks> or more likely, not deflect but lessen the force of the impact.
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22:41 < Dantespeaks> This is part of the transhumanist question right? I'm gearing toward development of a exoskeleton armour of course.
22:48 < Dantespeaks> Nevermind. How do you guys use the internet to assist on answering your questions besides obvious IRC channels?
22:48 < Dantespeaks> Forums?
22:48 < Dantespeaks> I would imagine, youtube would be of help in a study, and maybe interactive softwares?
22:49 < Dantespeaks> sorry, i come from a background with parents in the arts, this is my first attempt at studying science.
22:51 < Dantespeaks> Just organizing some methods to study effectively through the net. I don't have the money for personal tutoring.
22:59 < kanzure> matlab is not "required". that's primarily only used in academia.
23:00 < kanzure> i don't know why you are so insistent on college. just fucking learn matlab on your own.
23:03 < Dantespeaks> i can fuckin learn anything on my own. but theres something called human interaction and power in networks through a uni. i would also be interested in a relationship with a girl. why im so insistent.
23:04 < Dantespeaks> but ok. thanks. I think it could be important to learn it later on, if it's the standard thing.
23:04 < Dantespeaks> (matlab)
23:07 < kanzure> girls also happen to exist outside of college
23:09 < Dantespeaks> they also go for guys with high credentials. vanity & materialism = women.
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23:36 < abetusk> kanzure, what was the basic idea you wanted to convey under the "software and hardware" section in that transhuman declaration?
23:40 < kanzure> i forget, probably something that tastes like a condensed version of random bits of c2.com wisdom? something like that.
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--- Log closed Mon Oct 14 00:00:23 2013