--- Log opened Fri Dec 13 00:00:52 2013
00:08 < juri_> ThomasEgi: it might be worth you talking to mirage335. he's doing EEG work, mainly because he cannot find anyone to cooperate with on electrode work. he's been trying to get me to help him manufacture electrodes for a year now.
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02:40 < juri_> paperbot: http://www.pcisig.com/members/downloads/PCIe_M.2_Electromechanical_Spec_Rev1.0_Final_11012013_RS_Clean.pdf
02:40 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/eb007cd93d74feae2d47619c00a53bc5.txt
02:41 < juri_> grr. worth a shot.
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09:22 < ThomasEgi> superkuh, ping
09:24 < superkuh> I don't know anything useful about multi-electrode arrays.
09:25 < superkuh> Recently I have been reading about using small molecules to restores some visual function after retinal detachment.
09:25 < superkuh> In the interneurons.
09:26 < ThomasEgi> have you any ideas about how to reduce the strength of the connective tissue holding the neurons together?
09:26 < superkuh> No.
09:26 < ThomasEgi> hm. anyone you know maybe?
09:26 < superkuh> Nope, sorry.
09:29 < ThomasEgi> np. thx anyway. who knows. maybe i'll run into someone who knows about that sort of stuff.
09:29 < ThomasEgi> ran into a whole lot of people lately
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11:04 <@archels> ThomasEgi: Does this person have any chance of keeping their retina, even if it is dysfunctional?
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11:06 <@archels> there should be a several regulator-approved retinal implants out there
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11:08 < ThomasEgi> archels, the entire eye got removed due to retinal cancer-like things
11:09 < ThomasEgi> so it's only the optic nerve left. we aren't even sure if the visual cortex still processes the signals properly, but that's another issue
11:10 <@archels> ah, very cool that you're trying to help this person
11:10 <@archels> you should be able to achieve at least phosphenes, don't you think?
11:10 <@archels> 160x144 may be a bit much to ask for at this point in time
11:11 < chris_99> retinal implants are b&w aren't they?
11:12 < ThomasEgi> grayscale at best
11:12 < chris_99> why is that
11:12 < chris_99> like could you transmit red or is that not possible atm
11:12 < ThomasEgi> 160x144 is indeed a rather high target to reach. 32x32 or 64x64 should be somewhat possible.  64x64 already produces a somewhat useable vision
11:13 < ThomasEgi> chris_99, well theoretically you could use different colors, but that would reduce the resolution 4 fold, and your brain would have to learn to interpret that.
11:14 < ThomasEgi> for the time speaking, grayscale only reduces the technical requirements, and the requirements for the brain to relearn things.
11:14 < chris_99> am i right in thinking there are different coloured nerves in the retina?
11:14 < chris_99> or is it not like that
11:15 < ThomasEgi> the retina has different kinds of receptor cells
11:15 < ThomasEgi> but they all transmit the data over the same nerve.
11:15 < chris_99> oh, so how is the colour encoded
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11:16 < ThomasEgi> well you have the different photoreceptor cells wired up to separate neurons
11:16 < ThomasEgi> between 700k and 1.7M of those make up the optic nerve.
11:17 < ThomasEgi> so you have the information of red, blue, green and lumo all mixed up next to each other
11:17 < chris_99> ah, so there are 3 types of cones, i didn't realise that
11:17 < ThomasEgi> 4 i think?
11:18 < ThomasEgi> 3 for color. one for just brightness
11:18 < chris_99> ' In humans, there are three different types of cone cell, distinguished by their pattern of response to different wavelengths of light. '
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11:18 < chris_99> isn't it the rod
11:18 < chris_99> that defines the brightness
11:19 < chris_99> iirc sometimes humans have an extra red cone
11:20 < juri_> i'm colourscrewed. i have only two types, and one of them is working in the wrong band.
11:20 < ThomasEgi> yeah 3 cones, and the rod.
11:20 < ThomasEgi> makes 4 in total
11:20 < ThomasEgi> for a healthy human
11:21 < ThomasEgi> there are rare genetic conditiotns which result in 4 different cones and the rods.
11:23 < chris_99> so how do you actually target the cone/rod specifically
11:23 < chris_99> surely alignment is very hard
11:23 < ThomasEgi> you don't
11:23 < chris_99> oh you just whack it in
11:23 < ThomasEgi> well you could, if you could access individual neurons.
11:23 < ThomasEgi> but todays tech won't allow you to do that on more than just very few neurons
11:24 < chris_99> ah
11:24 < ThomasEgi> so yeah, you whack in bigger electrodes, stimulating hunrdets of neurons with a signle electrode.
11:24 < chris_99> mm
11:24 < ThomasEgi> and as result, you pretty much get a grayscale impression as all colors are excited evenly
11:24 < chris_99> ah
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12:52 < kanzure> yet another eeg http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/openbci/openbci-an-open-source-brain-computer-interface-fo
12:54 < chris_99> arduino eeg hmm
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13:02 < chris_99> ThomasEgi, you know anything about that chip http://www.ti.com/product/ads1299
13:02 < ThomasEgi> sure do
13:02 < ThomasEgi> i have the the older version of that chip right in front of me right now
13:03 < ThomasEgi> the ADS1194
13:03 < chris_99> nice, i assume it's not a differential input, right
13:03 < ThomasEgi> it is differential input
13:03 < chris_99> oh
13:03 < chris_99> ah, so the electrode has two connections on?
13:03 < ThomasEgi> yep
13:03 < chris_99> ah
13:04 < ThomasEgi> each channel has a positive, and negative input. each usualy connects to one electrode
13:04 < chris_99> so is it really easy to use then, just whack an electrode on
13:04 < chris_99> and grab the output
13:04 < chris_99> via SPI by the looks of it
13:04 < ThomasEgi> more or less yes
13:04 < chris_99> interesting
13:04 < ThomasEgi> it still requires all the engineering to not fuck up the signal
13:05 < chris_99> mm
13:05 < chris_99> you don't happen to know any non-differential 24 bit ADCs?
13:05 < ThomasEgi> proper power supply, good pcb layout, strong shielding etc.
13:05 < ThomasEgi> why would you want non-differential?
13:06 < ThomasEgi> i mean you could simply pull one end at half the supply voldage
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13:06 < chris_99> doesn't work that well if you do that kind of trick though
13:06 < chris_99> compared to a non-diff i thought
13:06 < ThomasEgi> the non-differential signal handling is what makes it worse
13:06 < ThomasEgi> not the trick you pull
13:07 < ThomasEgi> there is a very good reason to use differential signaling
13:07 < ThomasEgi> actually many reasons.
13:08 < chris_99> yes, that'd make sense if you have 2 real inputs
13:09 < ThomasEgi> you don't ?
13:09 < chris_99> no that's what i'm saying
13:09 < ThomasEgi> then you should change your setting to get 2 inputs
13:10 < ThomasEgi> alternatively you could do something like having a lowpass-filtered signal at one input. and the original at the other.
13:11 < chris_99> hmm i guess i'll use a regulated signal like you say as the other input
13:11 < chris_99> as i can then use my existing pcbs
13:11 < chris_99> hopefully
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13:14 < chris_99> ever used capacitive displacment sensors?
13:15 < justanotheruser> In a 2-3 spanning tree with n=64 leafs, is it's height closer to log_2(n) or 3?
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13:33 < AlterSid> what is a 2-3 spanning tree? do you mean each node can have 2 or 3 children?
13:33 < AlterSid> justanotheruser: ^
13:34 < AlterSid> if it's a binary tree, then its height will be exactly log_2(64), which is 6
13:36 < justanotheruser> AlterSid: it is a B-tree. Each node either has 2 or three children.
13:37 < AlterSid> ok, then worst case is 6
13:37 < justanotheruser> Basically, if the entire tree has 2 children it will have a height of 6, but if every node has 3 children it will have a height of 4
13:37 < justanotheruser> anyways one of the questions on my exam was if a tree would be closer to log_2(n) or 3.
13:38 < justanotheruser> I put log_2(n), but the trees height can be 4,5 or 6 therefore, 3 could be right too.
13:38 < AlterSid> that's a weird question..
13:38 < justanotheruser> because a height of 4 is closer to 3 than a log_2(64)
13:39 < AlterSid> was it multiple choice, or could you elaborate (like you just did)?
13:39 < justanotheruser> AlterSid: it was multiple choice. One of the answers was also 2n
13:39 < justanotheruser> There were 5 answers, only those two could be right.
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21:27 < ascendancy> quick question: has anyone here had neodymium implants?
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22:13 < Zhwazi> That seems like a dangerous sort of thing to implant, if you're talking about magnets.
22:27 < kanzure> does anyone have a link to a stream for the upcoming the chinese moon landing
22:28 < kanzure> oh wait, they probably wont stream photos
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22:31 < AlterSid> ascendancy: if you want, quinn norton did a conference at 29C3 (or maybe earlier) on her experience using these
22:32 < AlterSid> (the conference is availble on youtube)
22:34 < AlterSid> wow, it was 23C3 actually
22:34 < kanzure> http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=33511.0
22:34 < AlterSid> btw, anyone here going to this edition?
22:35 < kanzure> i am there in spirit, does that count
22:36 < AlterSid> of course !
22:42 < ascendancy> altersid: thank you very much. I'll check it out right away
22:42 < ascendancy> and thank you too, kanzure
22:43 < kanzure> uh whatever
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23:38 < kanzure> ParahSailin: what place will do anonymous genome sequencing
23:38 < kanzure> ParahSailin: e.g. no "know your customer" BS
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--- Log closed Sat Dec 14 00:00:53 2013