--- Log opened Fri Apr 25 00:00:06 2014 --- Day changed Fri Apr 25 2014 00:00 < entelechios> paperbot has been bust for a while now 00:00 < fenn> it's just science magazine 00:00 < fenn> which is stupid because i get like 3 copies of it 00:02 < entelechios> sec 00:02 < fenn> so anyway CD47 kills cancer and promotes angiogenesis 00:02 < entelechios> trying alternative methods 00:02 < entelechios> http://ezproxy.morningside.edu:2535/content/1/3/3ra7.full.pdf?sid=f006aa6d-dc9c-42c1-ba01-08cc2df5fd43 00:02 < entelechios> nope 00:02 < gradstudentbot> Heh, undergrads. 00:02 < entelechios> oh wait 00:03 < entelechios> this is free 00:03 < jrayhawk> haha 00:03 < jrayhawk> i missed gradstudentbot 00:03 < gradstudentbot> I don't think my PI remembers me. 00:03 < fenn> oh, " 00:03 < fenn> As a service to the community, AAAS/ Science has made this article free with registration." 00:04 < entelechios> this is what ive got for my central american good fortune 00:04 < entelechios> http://jxplore.com/ 00:04 < fenn> i see a login form and don't generally read the fine print 00:04 < entelechios> in terms of getting things sorted for papers 00:04 < ebowden_> paperbot: http://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/82131 00:04 < entelechios> russia has some other thing i used to use which was a lot simpler but 00:04 < entelechios> i see people use paperbot in here does it really still work 00:04 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/f3e126481b8d3ade19941bd04ac72437.txt 00:04 < fenn> i dunno 00:04 < entelechios> i remember it did a while ago 00:05 < fenn> for some reason kanzure made it link to libgen and everything broke 00:05 -!- Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:05 -!- Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:05 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:06 < jrayhawk> works for me 00:07 < fenn> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1126%2Fscitranslmed.3000139 give me a 404 00:07 < entelechios> fenn pretty sure years ago i had dr isenberg mail me this stuff anyways 00:07 < fenn> http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/1/3/3ra7.full wants me to register 00:07 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1126%2Fscitranslmed.3000139 00:08 < entelechios> or at least drafts 00:08 < entelechios> this was a long long time ago 00:08 < entelechios> but usually just asking nicely to the researchers works great 00:08 < entelechios> especially if youve got questions or ask for follow up commentary 00:08 < fenn> fuck that 00:08 < entelechios> which also of course provides additonal info sometimes 00:08 < fenn> if it's publically funded research it should be online and easy to download 00:09 < entelechios> no doubt 00:09 < entelechios> anyways actually engaging with the researchers in question is rewarding 00:09 < fenn> i'm not an oncologist, i just don't want to read some poorly rehashed popular science article when i can read the real thing 00:09 -!- Adifex is now known as Adifex|zzz 00:10 < entelechios> i'm just some goon 00:10 < entelechios> with no education and a lot of curiosity 00:11 < jrayhawk> that can get you pretty far 00:11 < entelechios> it has really 00:11 < entelechios> no debts 00:11 < fenn> wikipedia totally changes the game, we don't really need "education" anymore, just access to infrastructure 00:11 < entelechios> wikipedia, i've done troll edits on it that have lasted to this day 00:11 < jrayhawk> eh, i find wikipedia pretty bad for a lot of stuff 00:12 < fenn> it provides a basic overview on-demand that is hard to find anywhere else 00:12 < entelechios> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA citation #6 SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH don't blow it it's funny as hell 00:12 < entelechios> i probably just blew it 00:12 < fenn> i'm calling the wiki police 00:12 < entelechios> i've had that up there for at least a couple of years now 00:12 < jrayhawk> yeah, there are occasionally some pretty big editors in here 00:12 < entelechios> amoung others i wont even mention 00:13 < entelechios> just contradicting the lies 00:13 < entelechios> with citations 00:13 < entelechios> i'm sure they get noticed 00:13 < entelechios> but then what if someone tried to edit out that whole paragraph to say 'no they're actually known for shitting the world up' 00:13 < entelechios> it'd get moderated out 00:13 < fenn> something in swedish 00:14 < fenn> it's not funny just because it's swedish 00:15 < gradstudentbot> Hood life: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=296519020495014 00:15 < entelechios> i'd be impressed with IKEA if they had a reputation for extremely durable furniture on top of all of what they got going for themselves already 00:15 < fenn> entelechios: it's made of wood, they cut down forests, it's "eco friendly" is that it? 00:15 < ebowden_> paperbot: http://www.omicsonline.org/functionalization-with-tat-peptide-enhances-blood-brain-barrier-crossing-in-vitro-of-nanoliposomes-carrying-a-curcumin-derivative-to-bind-amyloid-peptide-2157-7439.1000171.pdf&&aid=12272 00:16 < fenn> the thing is, it probably is "eco friendly" compared to the alternatives 00:16 < entelechios> fenn: we don't have ikea here as far as i know, all my furniture is 2nd hand. that's your eco friendly alternative. 00:16 < jrayhawk> I dunno, plastic's a lot easier to recycle. 00:16 < entelechios> yeah i wouldn't mind a new desk made out of bottle caps or something 00:16 < jrayhawk> obviously depending on how leachy the plastic is. 00:16 < entelechios> not far from where i am this woman in el salvador has her house made of plastic bottles 00:17 < entelechios> http://photoblog.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/12/30/9815906-elderly-couple-make-a-dream-home-from-plastic-bottles?lite 00:17 < entelechios> its freakin cool 00:17 < entelechios> and really charming 00:17 < jrayhawk> entelechios: http://piny.be/jrayhawk/notes/intellectual_maladaptation/ here is a thing i wrote for myself that i think you can use 00:18 < fenn> entelechios: this is pretty cool http://miniwiz.com/miniwiz/en/products/living/polli-brick watch the video for how it's made from recycled bottles 00:18 < entelechios> jrayhawk: sounds like a lot of how the world goes round 00:19 < jrayhawk> an elective system 00:19 < entelechios> jrayhawk: try nicaraguas current situation for eg, those folks just cant calm down 00:19 < paperbot> RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded in cmp (file "/usr/lib/python2.7/_weakrefset.py", line 73, in __contains__) 00:19 < entelechios> they got their former sandinistas trying to encroach upon costa rican territory doing the stupidest things ever 00:19 < entelechios> like trying to redivert a river 00:19 < entelechios> to redraw borders 00:20 < entelechios> wow fenn thats pretty awesome too 00:21 < fenn> personally i think most furniture is pretty dumb. i'm a plastic bin and metro rack kind of guy, but i'd use a vertical storage carousel if i had my own place 00:21 < entelechios> i live in a pretty decent cucarachahut 00:21 < fenn> do you have chagas disease 00:21 < entelechios> and make great money for my area 00:21 < entelechios> no i don't have chagas as far as i know 00:22 < entelechios> never been tested 00:22 < entelechios> as far as i know it can be a pretty dormant thing 00:22 < fenn> (does cucarachahut actually mean anything specific?) 00:22 < entelechios> it means my place is starting to get invaded by the damn things because the green season is coming along 00:23 < fenn> i like earthbag construction by Nader Khalili, especially if it's smooth and not covered in hippie art 00:23 < gradstudentbot> I am completely satisfied with the size of my bench space. 00:23 < fenn> gradstudentbot: fuck you too 00:23 < gradstudentbot> I haven't seen my PI in like a week. 00:24 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:24 < fenn> http://calearth.org/images/building-designs/eco-dome/photos2/EcDmFinBack2.jpg 00:26 -!- Zhwazi [~Zhwazi@copyfree/contributor/Zhwazi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:26 < fenn> here's one near joshua tree i stayed at http://fennetic.net/irc/IMG_8030.JPG 00:26 < entelechios> what country are those in? 00:26 < fenn> southern california 00:26 < entelechios> cool buildings 00:27 < entelechios> they look like theyre from some science fiction something or other 00:27 < fenn> this was https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bonita-Domes-Project/131821026865069?_fb_noscript=1 00:28 < fenn> yes i think they used the same construction method for Star Wars Tatooine desert domes 00:28 < fenn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SW_binary_sunset.png 00:29 < fenn> it's based on ancient persian mud brick vaulted "anbar" cisterns 00:29 < fenn> anyway a little plastic goes a long way 00:30 < fenn> the test sample they were using to do earthquake resistance testing destroyed the shaker table without even a single crack forming 00:30 < fenn> like magnitude 9 earthquake 00:31 < entelechios> nice 00:31 < nmz787_i> Lemminkainen: http://pastebin.com/Hp28mUYM 00:31 < entelechios> id really like to live in something like that 00:32 < nmz787_i> Lemminkainen: FYI it was just a free registration to get that article 00:33 < fenn> i hear people make "wattle and daub" (mud and stick) houses, but they can't afford concrete to finish the exterior, so assassin bugs (barbeiros) live in the sticks in the walls and it gives people chagas disease 00:33 < fenn> i dont understand why they can't just put plastic on the mud to keep it from washing away? 00:33 < entelechios> yeah no doubt at all 00:33 < entelechios> chagas is harsh 00:33 < entelechios> the treatments for it fuck your brain up sometimes 00:34 < nmz787_i> Lemminkainen: just found this too http://journal.frontiersin.org/Journal/10.3389/fgene.2011.00090/full 00:34 < entelechios> ive seen the bugs before 00:34 < gradstudentbot> Someone's sitting at my bench space. 00:35 < nmz787_i> Lemminkainen: this was the actual paper http://genome.cshlp.org/content/early/2014/04/02/gr.162131.113.abstract 00:35 < fenn> also earthbag is bullet resistant 00:35 < nmz787_i> .title 00:35 < yoleaux> Somatic mutations found in the healthy blood compartment of a 115-yr-old woman demonstrate oligoclonal hematopoiesis 00:37 < fenn> not every mutation would lead to abnormal growth, and not all abnormal growth leads to metastasis 00:38 < fenn> stem cell exhaustion eh 00:39 < fenn> i thought the telomere hypothesis was disproven 00:48 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:50 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:56 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:02 < fenn> jrayhawk: wrt http://piny.be/jrayhawk/notes/intellectual_maladaptation/ why is there no attempt made at modeling the values and justifications of others? 01:02 -!- mosasaur [~mosasaur@178.224.89.66] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:02 < fenn> why am i reading this 01:05 < fenn> now that we have robots that can fly airplanes, we can have nuclear airplanes right? 01:06 < gradstudentbot> I think our octopus might be smarter than me. 01:10 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:17 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:18 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:28 < fenn> oops i meant isotropic, not anisotropic 01:30 < fenn> aw motherfucker. ikiwiki won't accept my submission because "your login session has expired" and then it deletes everything i wrote 01:31 < mosasaur> Get your head out of the cloud fenn ;-) 01:31 < fenn> get the clouds out of my head 01:32 < fenn> i'm just garbage collecting at this point 01:32 < mosasaur> btw have you taught yoleaux some new tricks already? 01:32 < fenn> no, and i don't care 01:35 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:35 < gradstudentbot> My labview crashed. 01:38 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=0fb71545 fenn: radiation damage resistance. plz re-read papers and fix this summary 01:40 < fenn> dear lazyweb, 01:40 < fenn> where do i begin 01:40 < jrayhawk> "session"? on diyhpl.us? 01:40 < jrayhawk> that's a bit broken 01:40 < fenn> i really don't get how ikiwiki works 01:41 < jrayhawk> i should turn that into a bug report 01:41 < fenn> a web browser asking for my shell credentials just seems wrong 01:42 < fenn> i guess it's better than SSl 01:42 < jrayhawk> I can disable password authentication at the sshd level for 'fenn' if you want. 01:42 < fenn> um, but then how would i edit the page 01:42 < jrayhawk> using either an ssh key or a web browser 01:43 -!- chido [chidori@pasky.or.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:43 < fenn> how do i put an ssh key into a web browser 01:43 < jrayhawk> you put an ssh key into an ssh client 01:44 < jrayhawk> git+ssh://diyhpl.us/srv/git/diyhpluswiki 01:44 < fenn> oh, i can edit locally and push, but editing with a web browser wouldn't work if password was disabled 01:44 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:45 < jrayhawk> re: modeling values and motivations of others: if they don't have perfect values and motivations, they don't exist. if they do have perfect values and motivations, then there's no disagreement. 01:45 < jrayhawk> "at the sshd level" 01:45 < fenn> either way "they don't exist" 01:45 < fenn> part of accepting reality is accepting the reality of the thoughts of others 01:46 < jrayhawk> one would hope 01:46 < fenn> that whole page is extremely aspergers 01:46 < jrayhawk> uh, i think you may have your psychological pathologies quite confused 01:47 -!- nmz787_i [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-frqouifldefemxha] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:47 < fenn> perhaps 01:47 < fenn> aspergers doesn't exist :P 01:47 < jrayhawk> doesn't exist independently from autism? 01:48 < fenn> i don't know man, it's just words 01:48 < jrayhawk> what do words, like, really mean, man? 01:48 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:49 < fenn> i guess we could grade foods by their level of anisotropy 01:49 < fenn> aspect ratio and grain size 01:50 < fenn> it's logistically simpler to deal with foods with smaller grain sizes and aspect ratios 01:50 < jrayhawk> oh, isotropic. yeah, pate and pemmican are probably decent options. 01:50 < fenn> or really objects in general 01:51 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:51 < fenn> today passover candles were on sale so i bought 8 boxes 01:51 < fenn> eventually i will melt them down and dissolve LDPE to make machinable wax for silicone rubber molds for electronics cases etc etc 01:52 < fenn> but until then i have these round long things that need to be corralled in boxes or they will spill everywhere 01:53 < fenn> but at least they're uniform in size. so maybe there's a parameter to reflect that too, like fractal dimension 01:53 < fenn> or just standard deviation 01:53 < fenn> variance 01:54 < fenn> doesn't quite capture what i meant. peeps marshmallows are harder to stack than cylindrical marshmallows 01:55 < fenn> i have something called "tangle factor" that isn't fully defined yet 01:56 < fenn> a cord that's bundled up neatly is easier to deal with than one that's just thrown in a box with other cords 01:57 < fenn> chemically, coconut oil and paraffin wax aren't that different. i'm offended by this 01:58 < fenn> the fact that i can't eat paraffin wax 01:58 < fenn> and derive sustenance from it 01:59 < mosasaur> bee wax candles are multipurpose 01:59 < fenn> what do you mean 01:59 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:00 < mosasaur> you can eat them 02:00 < mosasaur> I think 02:01 < mosasaur> probably put it in your ears too 02:02 < fenn> great 02:04 < mosasaur> Why not ask jrayhawk for an ssh shell? You could do sshfs over that or remote x or just nano in the terminal. 02:05 < fenn> i am in a ssh shell right now 02:06 < fenn> since it was a wiki i clicked the 'edit' button, perhaps a wrong move 02:09 < mosasaur> No the error was earlier in the chain, by choosing to use a webbrowser as an interface. 02:11 < fenn> sorry i am still conceptualizing my data integration entity backend 02:11 < fenn> i blame julian assange for getting distracted by politics 02:11 < fenn> instead of maintaining surfraw 02:12 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:12 < fenn> mosasaur: http://fennetic.net/irc/ontological_assimilator 02:14 < jrayhawk> i concur, using a browser is always a wrong move 02:15 < mosasaur> fenn: I saw that earlier, for now and for me, it would be sufficient if it could just extract javascript generated content. 02:17 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:17 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:18 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@78.174.22.25] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:18 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@78.174.22.25] has quit [Changing host] 02:18 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:19 < fenn> so, if i need shell credentials to edit a wiki page, why is there an edit button? 02:22 < fenn> i still don't understand why i need to log in to edit a wiki page 02:23 < fenn> i mean, the point of wikis is (theoretically) anyone can edit them 02:23 < fenn> otherwise it's just a content management system 02:25 < fenn> mosasaur: have you looked at phantomjs? 02:26 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:27 -!- nsh [~nsh@host86-158-33-101.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:29 < mosasaur> fenn: No, but I was looking for something that would just work like wget or curl. 02:30 < fenn> yes i agree, wget really needs some basic javascript support 02:33 < fenn> "t's intended that whatever JavaScript functionality may be provided for Wget, will be available separately, in the form of a plugin module" 02:34 < mosasaur> How about using something like youtube-dl as a starting point / inspiration? 02:34 < fenn> i have no idea how that works 02:35 < mosasaur> All I know is it's a python script and it works. 02:35 < fenn> okay, but it's designed for a specific DOM element on a specific site, and is regularly updated to make sure it still works 02:36 < mosasaur> Start with the big sites, then by and by assimilate the smaller ones. 02:36 < fenn> surfraw tried that and failed 02:37 < fenn> also, it's a lot of work 02:37 < fenn> an infinite amount of work 02:38 < fenn> probably worth reading if you really care: http://wget.addictivecode.org/FeatureSpecifications/JavaScript 02:39 < mosasaur> You know a way to leverage some other work? Like taking a screenshot and then use a general character recognition engine? 02:39 < fenn> er.. that's not really the problem 02:39 < mosasaur> Thanks for that wget link 02:40 < fenn> the problem is related to the turing machine halting problem; we can't know in advance what the javascript will do in all cases 02:40 < fenn> if there's no user input, you can just run the program and give it some number of seconds to complete all the branches 02:41 < fenn> but if you have to give it data, especially if that involves downloading from third party services, you have no idea whether you're stuck in an infinite loop or not 02:42 < mosasaur> If you have a lot of people sending in screenshots it would be some kind of big data analysis problem, the advantage would be one would only need a single really smart data interpreter. 02:42 < fenn> there's probably some "three kings of siam" classic computer science/cryptographic trust generalized version of this problem that i don't know about 02:45 < fenn> mosasaur: the main use case for wget is to mirror a web site. how do you know when you're done crawling the entire site? 02:45 < mosasaur> There's always things one doesn't know about, the smart thing is to try to interpret the things one does know about or that one can get their hands on. 02:46 < mosasaur> You've abandoned the screenshot suggestion it seems. May I ask why? 02:46 < fenn> i don't really get it 02:47 < fenn> why not just take a screenshot yourself? 02:47 < fenn> where does wget come into it? 02:47 < mosasaur> The screenshot idea leverages the user to generate the page content. 02:47 -!- chido [chidori@pasky.or.cz] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:47 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:47 < fenn> but the whole point of wget is that it's automatic 02:48 < mosasaur> I see, you where on the wget path and I was trying to build an assimilator. 02:48 < mosasaur> Indeed for a wget it seems absurd. 02:48 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, it's significant. 02:50 < fenn> okay, for teaching an assimilator what's what, i'd use the chrome inspector to select part of the DOM from the page you're viewing, and a plugin copies that element, its class and url and id etc, and surrounding elements, and puts it into a feature table to feed some machine learning algorithm (probably a bayesian classifier) 02:51 < fenn> s/plugin/chrome extension/ 02:52 -!- nsh_ [~nsh@host86-158-34-55.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:52 -!- nsh_ [~nsh@host86-158-34-55.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:52 < mosasaur> OK, I was just trying to reduce the amount of work involved in anticipating each page's user interface. 02:52 -!- nsh_ [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:52 < fenn> the point of the assimilator isn't necessarily to run wild on the net like a search engine spider, but rather to present the subset of data you're interested in with a uniform format 02:53 < fenn> so it's a cooperative effort between man and machine 02:53 < fenn> bring the "user agent" back to "user agent" 02:53 -!- nsh [~nsh@host86-158-33-101.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:53 < mosasaur> Ah, but shouldn't an assimilator just assimilate? 02:54 < fenn> it seems right now we either have "agents" or "marks" (in the used car salesman sense of the word) 02:54 < mosasaur> Maybe call it an augmented user interface? 02:54 < fenn> mosasaur: you have to shove data in front of it to assimilate from 02:55 < fenn> it's not a user interface 02:55 < fenn> it's a user agent :( 02:55 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:55 < fenn> the frustrating part about all this is we got it theoretically right from the start 02:56 < fenn> but worse is better 02:56 < mosasaur> Like we have virtual reality and augmented reality, we could have augmented user agents. 02:56 < fenn> whatever 02:56 < fenn> go learn what those words mean 02:57 < mosasaur> I should RTFM? 02:57 < fenn> a user agent is a piece of software that acts on the user's behalf 02:58 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:58 < mosasaur> The way I see it, currently the user is at the mercy of whatever javascript a page uses to capture their eyeballs. 02:59 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:59 < mosasaur> And, current browsers (~user agents) do not act on the user's behalf, far from it. 03:00 < mosasaur> They condition them even, like make them want to click on edit buttons ;-) 03:01 < fenn> well tim berners-lee never got around to adding an edit protocol 03:01 < jrayhawk> fenn: the account signup is because i am too lazy to integrate with a captcha service 03:01 < mosasaur> So we need to augment the user's defenses or something like that. 03:02 < mosasaur> It doesn't do to stick to definitions if reality doesn't conform to them any more. 03:02 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:03 < fenn> i'm not going to make up words just because some wankers that have hundreds of billions of dollars are abusing those words 03:03 < jrayhawk> http edit: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2518 03:03 < mosasaur> hah, backpeddling now, jrayhawk? 03:03 < jrayhawk> hmm? 03:04 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:04 < fenn> ugh, WebDAV, i always wondered what that was for 03:05 < jrayhawk> though, unfortunately, no mention of "range" is present in that RFC 03:05 < mosasaur> It's kind of strange to mention captcha when talking about bypassing the browser interface. 03:05 < fenn> range? 03:05 < jrayhawk> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HTTP_header_fields#range-request-header 03:06 < gradstudentbot> I lost my pipette. 03:06 < jrayhawk> mosasaur: just because it is the wrong move doesn't mean users still don't insist upon it 03:07 < mosasaur> Ah OK then. I know what, or who you mean. 03:08 < fenn> the way i see it we just need smarter spam filters 03:08 -!- kyknos_ [~kyknos@89.233.130.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:08 < jrayhawk> i am told by other ikiwiki users that there exist no git protocol spambots, yet 03:08 < fenn> if the spam bots are smart enough to contribute apparently meaningful signal to the document, who am I to judge? 03:08 < jrayhawk> so we could just open up git:// to writes 03:09 < fenn> that seems reasonable 03:09 < archels> kanzure: I'm sitting in the same room as the person who maintains CoCoMac 03:10 < archels> (in case you have any constructive criticism that needs, uh, enforcing) 03:10 < fenn> it needs more zen! *thwack* 03:10 < jrayhawk> punchline from the last time i brought this up: 17:27 < kanzure> you might consider my commits to be git spam 03:12 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:12 < fenn> it's helpful to have feedback on why something was considered spam 03:13 < fenn> looking at the rules bayesian filters use is very illuminating about the narrowness of human experience 03:13 < jrayhawk> kanzure: why haven't you written a git object creation bot to test open git:// ports 03:14 < ebowden> Oh Lemminkainen, about BBB crossing: http://boa.unimib.it/bitstream/10281/45152/1/Sancini%20et%20al.%20JNMNT_20132157-7439-4-171(6).pdf 03:15 < jrayhawk> the functional medicine crowd is super excited about BBB permeability 03:15 < jrayhawk> the next frontier in etiology 03:15 < fenn> like, stopping it? 03:15 < mosasaur> if only they could get some dopamine in 03:16 < fenn> cause L-DOPA isn't good enough, apparently 03:16 < mosasaur> it has to be suppressed in the rest of the body 03:17 < fenn> which we know how to do 03:17 < fenn> people take mucuna all the time; i haven't heard of anyone dying 03:18 < fenn> kinda strange that you can get the active ingredient but not the thing that prevents side effects 03:18 -!- nsh__ [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:19 -!- nsh_ [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:21 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:29 < fenn> "Co-administration of pyridoxine without a DDCI accelerates the peripheral decarboxylation of L-DOPA to such an extent that it negates the effects of L-DOPA administration, a phenomenon that historically caused great confusion." 03:30 < fenn> DDCI = DOPA decarboxylase inhibitor 03:31 < fenn> this is probably the real reason L-DOPA is coadministered with carbidopa 03:32 < fenn> combined therapy potentiates the central effects of l-dopa by decreasing the dose-dependency 4-5 fold, therein allowing for effective Parkinson's Disease treatment without cardiovascular risk associated with high peripheral dopamine 03:33 < mosasaur> I just adminsiter fava beans. It seems periferal suppression enables one to up the dose that reaches the brain to such high levels that it burns out the substantia nigra (IIRC). 03:35 < fenn> wow i didn't know fava beans contained L-DOPA 03:36 < fenn> "One way to use dry beans of the minor type is to sprout them. Sprouting increases the levodopa content of the bean by a factor of five. My rule of thumb is that each sprouted fava bean contains two mg levodopa." 03:36 < mosasaur> I'm talking about only myself ofc, and I don't have Parkinsons as far as I can tell. I don't treat patients nor would I deny them effective treatment. 03:38 < fenn> Levodopa reacts with potassium iodate, at pH 5, to form a reddish-orange compound. The intensity of the colour can be used to measure the amount of levodopa. 03:39 < fenn> of course iodine also reacts with plenty of other stuff 03:42 < fenn> this reminds me of soaking food along with rye berries to try to destroy the phytic acid 03:45 < fenn> since phytic acid binds iron, you can titrate with ferric chloride and see how much the solution tint changes 03:45 < fenn> theoretically at least 03:48 < fenn> hopefully whatever process you're testing wouldn't change the phenol content of the food: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferric_chloride_test 03:52 < mosasaur> If you'd just stick down to earth you'd probably make a good programmer. 03:52 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:53 < fenn> copper also binds to phytic acid so that could serve as a second check 03:54 < fenn> anyway, i decided it was easier to take a mineral supplement 03:54 < fenn> instead of worrying about invisible stuff and soaking grains and all that 03:56 < fenn> the point of the colorimetric test was so i'd know whether these folk traditions actually had the intended effect or not (there's a lot of weird "culture" out there) 03:56 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:57 < fenn> mosasaur: how to get more down to earth than knowing the mineral content of your food? 03:59 < fenn> certainly i'd prefer a GC/MS built into every cell phone, but for some reason the consumer electronics gods haven't seen fit to bless us with such a tool 03:59 -!- nsh_ [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:59 < mosasaur> Food is important yes, but the minerals are not absorbed free of context. 03:59 < fenn> please elaborate 04:00 -!- nsh__ [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:00 < mosasaur> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7610583 04:00 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:00 < fenn> .title 04:00 < yoleaux> Processed foods that dilute protein content subvert our appetite control systems 04:01 < fenn> this is talking about protein content. anyway, go ahead, try to get your RDA of magnesium by chewing on kale 04:01 < fenn> it's not gonna happen 04:02 < mosasaur> You're right but it's about the general principle that how the stuff is packaged matters. 04:03 < mosasaur> You're too much down to earth now, I know it's complicated. 04:05 -!- nsh_ [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:05 -!- nsh_ [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:05 < fenn> i bought a ham for $1.60 per pound, it seems like anyone ought to be able to afford that 04:06 < fenn> it was a real pig leg too, not glued together slime 04:07 < fenn> i think the problem is the average person just doesn't know what's going on 04:07 < fenn> they believe the "heart healthy" labels and think cheerios are health food 04:08 < fenn> they think "i ate something green today, that's vegetables, the rest will take care of itself" 04:09 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:10 < fenn> i wonder what would have happened if joseph stalin never took over the soviet union 04:10 -!- pad2 [~not@100.43.114.90] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:12 -!- Guest49564 [~not@100.43.114.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:13 < fenn> mosasaur: probably the only good comment on that thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7610772 04:14 < mosasaur> just admit, they had you at "Screw it" 04:15 < fenn> no actually i started at f) and worked backward 04:15 < mosasaur> Ah OK ;-) 04:19 < mosasaur> I don't like f) because paleo-lacto-ovo-pescetarianism is obviously the best way to go. 04:20 < mosasaur> But that's just because it's getting harder and harder to acquire proteins as a vegetarian. 04:20 < fenn> i'm undecided on milk; see our above conversation about lectins and autoimmunity 04:21 < mosasaur> Yeah not milk, but yoghurt is somewhat OK. 04:21 < fenn> i like kefir 04:21 < fenn> hard to find good yogurt 04:22 < fenn> i dont know if you're being sarcastic or not 04:23 < mosasaur> I don't know if you care 04:23 < gradstudentbot> The autoclave smells really good. 04:23 < fenn> i don't 04:23 < mosasaur> Just what I thought 04:23 < fenn> glad that's settled 04:24 < fenn> if you just ate huge quantities of salmon you're probably fine 04:24 < mosasaur> I did 04:25 < mosasaur> I do have stacks of creatine in case my conscience kicks in though. 04:25 < fenn> they started selling foil lined pouches of tuna and salmon a couple years ago, very logistically convenient 04:25 < fenn> but twice the price of canned 04:25 < fenn> oh well 04:27 < mosasaur> Over here canned is the more expensive item. 04:28 < mosasaur> Did you compare weight or just price per item? 04:28 < fenn> price per drained weight 04:28 < fenn> the pouches are pre-drained 04:29 < mosasaur> I ate a lot of steamed mackerel too the last few weeks but now I can't stand the thing anymore. 04:30 < fenn> did you mean carnitine? 04:31 < mosasaur> No, creatine. I do have carnitine too, but I never noticed it having any effect. 04:32 < ebowden> Creatine dodecyl ester is showing promise as a source of creatine that penetrates the blood-brain-barrier. 04:33 < mosasaur> Creatine seems to help me recover earlier from exercise, especially in combination with vitamin B, but that has to be combined with lecithin to counteract the headache the next morning, possibly from the niacin in the vitamin B concentrate. 04:34 < fenn> are you taking piracetam? (or some other racetam) 04:35 < fenn> lecithin is a source of choline that prevents piracetam headaches (i don't really understand why you get headaches) 04:36 -!- Lemminkainen [uid2346@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ppwjtcerggvtlcbf] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 04:37 < mosasaur> I'm now off all supplements except a vitamin pill each day. When I start seriously exercising again, or drop the fish eating, I guess I'll have to compensate with supplements somehow. I don't take any drugs, not even even coffee or alcohol. OK maybe chocolate milk. 04:37 < ebowden> Oh, apparently, noopept works by a similar mechanism, and is a lot more potent than piracetam. 04:37 < mosasaur> Oh maybe the fava beans could be a nootropic. 04:38 < fenn> levodopa is definitely a nootropic 04:38 < mosasaur> Yes, I think it's the choline that counteracts the niacine, but I don't know except that it works. 04:39 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@36-96-15.connect.netcom.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:39 < gradstudentbot> It's contaminated. 04:40 < mosasaur> But the creatine enhances the niacin headache somehow? 04:45 < mosasaur> Eggs help against that headache too. 04:47 < mosasaur> But anyway without all that artificial stuff pumping up one's body and getting systems out of balance, things are much better. Like eating lots of fruit and unprocessed food. 04:48 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:51 < fenn> creatine might be aggravating high blood pressure; you might just have a "hangover". try drinking pedialyte after exercising next time 04:51 < fenn> unprocessed food tends to be higher in potassium 04:52 < fenn> avocados are also good 04:52 < mosasaur> I've got potassium pills too 04:52 < fenn> it's just potassium chloride in a capsule? 04:54 < mosasaur> Yeah potassium chloride. I actually prefer the citrate but they only sell that over the border and I am out of supply now. 05:00 < mosasaur> No it's not high blood pressure I think. Because some salmiak containing sweets or rooibos tea gives me really high blood pressure (like swollen feet and hands and stuff in case of the sweets) but they never cause headaches. 05:00 < fenn> potassium chloride pills were banned because they can be fatal. however you'd have to be insane to take 47 pills at once http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=361214 05:01 < mosasaur> And it's not tension headache but something at the back of my head just above the neck. Especially inconvenient while trying to masturbate because the effect peaks synchronously. 05:04 < fenn> i had some reference about creatine boosting steroid hormone conversion (aldosterone and testosterone are both steroids) and maybe this reaction needs niacin to proceed (i lost the reference though) 05:05 < mosasaur> Different things are banned in different countries, for example in Germany over the border I can buy potassium citrate but now over here in the Netherlands. And here i can buy melatonin that seems to be proscribed in some other countries. 05:05 < mosasaur> now ==> not 05:06 < gradstudentbot> I don't remember the paper, but someone definitely did that. 05:07 < mosasaur> Right something something testosterone but it's nearly impossible to figure out how all these things connect so better not go there and just eat healthy food, not a lot. 05:08 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Quit: ...unyaaa ~~~] 05:11 < fenn> lol. it's figuring out what's "healthy" that's the problem 05:13 < mosasaur> That's where the paleo philosophy kicks in. Although I had a hard time accepting that early humans might have been meat eaters. 05:13 < fenn> watching "survivorman" or "naked and afraid" it starts to make sense 05:13 < mosasaur> I think maybe we're just glorified fruit picking machines that also consume fish. 05:14 < mosasaur> The aquatic human theory, or at least one that traveled parallel a shore. 05:15 < fenn> amphibious 05:15 < fenn> we have snorkels on our face (a nose) 05:15 < mosasaur> And we're nearly hairless 05:15 < fenn> dolphins don't have snorkels 05:15 < mosasaur> if it's a snorkel it's upside down 05:16 < fenn> uh, it's a thing that keeps water from rushing straight down into your lungs 05:17 < fenn> i dont know if there's even a word for that 05:17 < mosasaur> a valve 05:17 < fenn> it's not a valve, it's passive 05:18 < mosasaur> a sifon 05:19 < mosasaur> What's most telling is babies seem to have an underwater reflex. 05:19 < fenn> diving hood maybe 05:20 < fenn> diving bell 05:21 < mosasaur> Ofc people trying if kittens have the same reflex would be instantly lynched 05:21 < fenn> every toilet in the world works on this principle, how is there not a name for it? 05:23 < fenn> i guess it's a siphon 05:23 < mosasaur> an inverted siphon 05:23 < mosasaur> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siphon 05:26 < mosasaur> Anyway, we were talking about healthy food, why not just minerals etc. 05:26 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@179.26.154.51] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:27 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@pool-173-74-79-151.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:27 < fenn> it seems like the hardest ones to get are magnesium, chromium, selenium, iodine 05:27 < JayDugger> Micronutrients? 05:28 < fenn> maybe zinc 05:28 < fenn> jeez chromium isn't even in the database? 05:30 < mosasaur> There you go again, one can't just eat zinc, it must be delivered in the right way, accompanied by the right kind of other stuff. 05:31 < mosasaur> In one form it may be toxic, in another it might help vitamin A to improve eyesight. 05:31 < fenn> of course of course, but zinc methionate is pretty standard 05:32 < fenn> albion did a lot of research in the 1980's with optimizing mineral delivery by amino acid chelates in animal feed; turns out humans are animals and it works for us too 05:33 < fenn> magnesium glycinate costs more than magnesium citrate; i don't know if it's worth it, but magnesium citrate is good enough for me 05:34 < fenn> i haven't messed with iodine yet but there's a whole book on it: http://lewisford.info/iodide.html 05:34 < mosasaur> the citrate comes in big white pills that dissolve in water while making bubbles 05:35 < fenn> no it comes in tiny glass soda bottles and they're carbonated 05:35 < fenn> citric acid + magnesium carbonate will give you magnesium citrate, but it will be ionic, not a chelate 05:35 < mosasaur> I'm not sure if you're sarcastic 05:37 < fenn> magnesium citrate oral solution USP: http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/walgreens-magnesium-citrate-saline-laxative-oral-solution-grape/ID=prod5604183-product 05:37 < FourFire> "potassium chloride pills were banned because they can be fatal. however you'd have to be insane to take 47 pills at once" a certain percentage of the population is provably insane 05:37 < fenn> these are not mutually contradictory statements 05:38 < FourFire> " And it's not tension headache but something at the back of my head just above the neck. Especially inconvenient while trying to masturbate because the effect peaks synchronously." that's unfortunate 05:39 < FourFire> fenn, how is a nose a snorkel ?? 05:39 < mosasaur> http://www.proz.com/kudoz/german_to_english/medical%3A_pharmaceuticals/223624-kalinor_brause.html 05:39 < FourFire> oh ok 05:39 < fenn> it keeps the air in and the water out 05:39 -!- catern [~catern@catern.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:40 < mosasaur> effervescent tablets 05:40 < fenn> yeah i have some Nuun hydration tablets 05:40 < mosasaur> also, potassium not magnesium 05:41 < fenn> believe it or not, they are different elements 05:43 < mosasaur> Hi fourfire, I hope you're not lagging? 05:44 < fenn> 500ml of nuun electrolyte replacement formula contains: Na 360, K 100, Ca 12, Mg 25, vitamin C 37.5, vitmain B2 0.5, and a bunch of citrate 05:45 < mosasaur> I thought we were supposed to believe those things are just marketing fluff? 05:45 -!- nsh_ is now known as nsh 05:46 < fenn> 25 mg of magnesium is only 6% of your RDA 05:46 < fenn> it's better than gatorade though 05:46 < fenn> too much sodium IMHO 05:53 < fenn> everything you need to know about minerals and diet: http://krispin.com/potassm.html http://krispin.com/magnes.html http://krispin.com/thyroid.html 05:53 < mosasaur> http://www.epgonline.org/drugs/de/kalinor%C2%AEbrausetabletten/ better link, the other still claims it's the chlorate, which is not the case 05:55 -!- catern [~catern@catern.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:56 -!- Adifex|zzz is now known as Adifex 05:56 < mosasaur> Right, speed up the metabolism via the thyroid. The only problem is it's a very delicate balance and probably ends up being very bad for your health. 05:57 < fenn> it only speeds up if you had a mineral deficiency that was causing hypothyroidism 05:57 < fenn> i mean, don't just go take some random gland extract for fun 05:58 < mosasaur> or if you're forced to write a patient clustering AI by a mad professor 05:58 < fenn> I plead the fifth 06:02 < fenn> time for bed 06:03 < cluckj> O_o 06:03 < mosasaur> night fenn ;-) 06:05 < fenn> good time of day, citizens of the world! 06:05 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:08 < ebowden> Night. 06:18 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:23 -!- mosasaur [~mosasaur@178.224.89.66] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:28 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:29 < JayDugger> Morning. 06:34 < cluckj> sup 06:36 < eudoxia> JayDugger: judging by your github history i'm guessing you know this: is there some Anki plugin that lets me store the cards as simple text files in a tree of directories? 06:36 < eudoxia> so i can eg put them in a github repo, generate them from a script, etc. 06:38 < JayDugger> eudoxia, I don't think any such thing exists. 06:38 < JayDugger> If you've already checked the on-line list of add-ons, then I can suggest a few things. 06:39 < JayDugger> You might just get what you want from correctly formatted CSV files. 06:40 < eudoxia> JayDugger: would i have to manually import them every time i started anki? 06:41 < JayDugger> You might have a directory tree of plain text files, and you might have a script which mapped their absolute filenames and their content to... 06:41 < JayDugger> Yeah, you would. 06:41 < JayDugger> Perhaps (i.e., I have no idea if) you could do so by directly interacting with Anki's SQLite databases. 06:42 < JayDugger> That's probably a question for the developers. 06:42 -!- fireprfHydra [~fireprfHy@pool-173-70-216-225.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:43 < JayDugger> You wouldn't quite need to import the whole tree every time, but you'd need to do that every time the tree's contents changed. 06:43 < JayDugger> Import would turn files into notes, and Anki would track scheduling once the notes existed. 06:44 < JayDugger> Anki has got plain text export for cards and notes though, and on a per-deck basis. 06:46 < eudoxia> hm, thanks for the info 06:46 < JayDugger> Not much of an answer, I'm afraid, but you're welcome. 06:46 < eudoxia> i suppose the simplest path would be a program that generated an XML import from a tree of text files 06:47 < eudoxia> i'm gonna see what i come up with 06:47 < JayDugger> Good luck! 06:48 < eudoxia> thanks C: 07:05 -!- fireprfHydra [~fireprfHy@pool-173-70-216-225.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:07 < FourFire> " Hi fourfire, I hope you're not lagging?" only by a couple of hours 07:07 < FourFire> Temporal distortion is... hard 07:09 < eudoxia> living beyond half a light hour would suck 07:09 < eudoxia> "yes hello mr. nasa man please make the following google searches" 07:14 < FourFire> eudoxia, lol, what's going to happen when mars is eventually colonized 07:14 < FourFire> will they just be mostly disconnected with their local cache? 07:15 < FourFire> I know that Craig Venter has worked on some InterPlanetary Internet protocol 07:15 < eudoxia> they'll probably use asynchronous proxies for synchronous behaviour 07:15 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:17 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:18 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:21 -!- oblique [~oblique@unaffiliated/oblique] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:25 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:30 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 07:33 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:39 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:44 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@cm113.kappa36.maxonline.com.sg] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:44 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@cm113.kappa36.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Changing host] 07:44 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:53 -!- fireprfHydra [~fireprfHy@pool-173-70-216-225.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:54 < ParahSailin> hm, parallela shipped out to me 07:57 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:58 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:00 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@179.26.154.51] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:11 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:31 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:35 -!- fireprfHydra_ [~fireprfHy@pool-173-70-216-225.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:36 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: streety 08:37 -!- fireprfHydra [~fireprfHy@pool-173-70-216-225.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:39 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:44 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:46 -!- Lemminkainen [uid2346@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:46 -!- Netsplit over, joins: streety 08:46 -!- Lemminkainen [uid2346@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session] has quit [Changing host] 08:46 -!- Lemminkainen [uid2346@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-opcasqgiyhfzgplh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:01 < FourFire> ParahSailin, cool, do you have the 16 or 64 version? 09:02 < ParahSailin> 16 09:02 < FourFire> what're you using it for? 09:03 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.137.75] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:04 < ParahSailin> currently dont have one 09:07 < FourFire> I mean, what are you going to be using it for, something specific, or just something to hack on? 09:11 < chris_99> whatcha talking about? 09:12 < ParahSailin> yeah, mostly derping around 09:12 < ParahSailin> the adapteva parallela 09:12 < chris_99> aha cool 09:13 < chris_99> i wanted to get one of thoses 09:13 < chris_99> i'm curious you know their own processor part uses OpenCL 09:13 < chris_99> how does that part stack up to a GPU i wondr 09:13 < chris_99> (i realise theres an FPGA and ARM part too) 09:35 < FourFire> yeah I'm interested in it's capabilities vs a GPU 09:36 < FourFire> if it truly is as power efficient as they claim 09:36 < FourFire> but I want the 64 version, and the pluralcore roadmap versions 09:36 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:42 < chris_99> if it's just like 16 gpu cores, it's not that impressive is it? 09:43 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:51 < kanzure> 03:09 < archels> kanzure: I'm sitting in the same room as the person who maintains CoCoMac 09:51 < kanzure> 03:10 < archels> (in case you have any constructive criticism that needs, uh, enforcing) 09:51 < kanzure> god bless this channel 09:52 < kanzure> 03:13 < jrayhawk> kanzure: why haven't you written a git object creation bot to test open git:// ports 09:52 < kanzure> why would i give when i could just take? 09:58 < kanzure> eudoxia: don't waste your time on anki 10:01 -!- eridu [~eridu@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:05 < kanzure> http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/ 10:06 < kanzure> oh yeah, they do livestreaming these days. that's neat. 10:06 < kanzure> i can't remember which ludum dare i participated in. must have been 2003ish? 10:07 < chris_99> what did you make? 10:08 < kanzure> no idea 10:19 < ParahSailin> i am slightly confused though, FourFire, have they actually fabbed 64 core asics or is it just 4 ics on a board 10:19 < kanzure> http://www.the-odin.com/ "I have been working hard lately to build a store that provides consumables and materials and equipment to small labs and DIYBio people and it is almost ready to open" 10:19 < kanzure> josiah zayner 10:21 < FourFire> ParahSailin, they actually fabbed 64 core chips 10:22 -!- fireprfHydra [~fireprfHy@pool-173-70-216-225.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:22 < ParahSailin> dang thats too bad they didnt let the kickstarter people upgrade 10:22 < FourFire> but they said they were only going to produce them if they reached their stretch goal (kickstarter), and they didn't 10:22 < FourFire> so they have one batch of 64 core "engineering samples" 10:23 < FourFire> and that batch which was preordered gets delivered to the original backers, but otherwise they aren't selling anything besides the 16 core one 10:23 < FourFire> which sort of sucks from my perspective, as I was interested in using lots of the manycore boards for a project 10:24 < chris_99> what was the project? 10:25 < FourFire> they are weaker than GPUs of course, but if openGL can run on them, they should certainly beat performance per watt*dollar for my application at least 10:25 < FourFire> chris_99, Massively parallel Molecular Dynamics 10:25 -!- fireprfHydra_ [~fireprfHy@pool-173-70-216-225.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:25 < chris_99> sounds cool, that means modelling chemical reactions? 10:26 < FourFire> I want to use an evolutionary algorithm to design molecules 10:26 < chris_99> oh 10:26 < chris_99> what kind of molecules? 10:26 < kanzure> molecular dynamics is often "does this molecule hold together" 10:26 < FourFire> based on how they perform in certain reactions with specified environmental values 10:26 < chris_99> ah 10:26 < FourFire> but basically yes 10:27 < FourFire> doing chemistry on a computer 10:28 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, there's a clear trend. 10:29 -!- fireprfHydra [~fireprfHy@pool-173-70-216-225.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:33 < kanzure> "Brazil has an nation wide agreement providing journal access to 423 research institutions. It is called Portal de Periódicos, provided by CAPES. According to its 2013 financial report [1], last year CAPES spent US$ 93,872,151.11 (with US$ 31,644,204.12 paid to Elsevier). " 10:33 < kanzure> "Some institutions that are not covered by the agreement, as they do not meet the eligibility criteria, had to pay in separate in order to get access to this portal, spending an additional of US$ 11,560,438.93. " 10:33 < kanzure> http://www.capes.gov.br/images/stories/download/Contas_Publicas/Relatorio-de-Gestao-2013.pdf 10:34 < entelechios> jesus christ 10:35 < entelechios> thats actually the kind of money per nation that can afford it paid to these assholes? 10:37 < entelechios> i'm just a little dumbstruck here 10:38 < kanzure> it's an arms dealer, what would you expect 10:38 < kanzure> "buy our science or we will blow you the fuck up" 11:02 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@36-96-15.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:04 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:06 -!- Lemminkainen [uid2346@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-opcasqgiyhfzgplh] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 11:12 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:17 < nmz787_i> is there a good function in python handles malformed paths (i.e. \ \\ or /)? 11:18 < nmz787_i> this is for windows, so I don't think spaces in dirs need escaped, I don't think that a user would do that either, but they might use forward slashes 11:20 < ParahSailin> i bet in windows the os.path functions handle forward and backslashes correctly 11:23 < ParahSailin> yeah, path.normpath("C:\derp/derp") -> 'C:\\derp\\derp' 11:25 < kanzure> import ntpath 11:30 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:36 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:37 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:37 -!- nsh_ [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:43 -!- nsh_ is now known as nsh 11:54 < kanzure> http://www.theonion.com/articles/project-manager-leaves-suicide-powerpoint-presenta,1290/ 11:54 < kanzure> "Ron clearly spent a lot of time on that presentation. If the subject matter weren't so heavy, we'd probably use it to train his replacement." 11:58 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:01 < entelechios> "We all got Ron's message loud and clear when that JPEG of his wife wipe-transitioned to a photo of her tombstone," coworker Anne Thibideux said. 12:01 < entelechios> hahaha 12:02 < delinquentme> kanzure, I sent you a love letter on HN 12:03 < kanzure> give me a link if you want me to see it 12:10 < delinquentme> advice if I'm to talk to someone from a publishing company? 12:10 < kanzure> have something to say 12:10 < delinquentme> Should I have a lawyer before I reach out to them? because "fair use" type stuff? 12:10 < kanzure> don't waste doug's time 12:11 < delinquentme> ha 12:11 < delinquentme> what makes you say that kanzure 12:11 < kanzure> it's always a good idea to not waste people's time 12:11 < kanzure> otherwise they get grumpy like me 12:11 < delinquentme> well I think you're just trying to be a dick without motivation and no substance because you can and its the internet 12:11 < delinquentme> so if theres substance to the claim I'll listen to it 12:11 < delinquentme> but I think you're just being a dick 12:12 < kanzure> here's an alternative theory, i said "have something to say" because i really think it's good advice 12:12 < delinquentme> I'm taken aback that you think I wouldn't 12:13 < kanzure> well, you're telling me i'm being a dick, which indicates you don't 12:13 < delinquentme> Also its not pivotal to go in saying ' I have suggestions ' ... but simply BEING someone whos done this shit ... makes it valuable to him 12:13 < delinquentme> you're being a dick because of the presupposed time wasting. 12:14 < delinquentme> because you're well a dick like that, which I wish you wouldn't be 12:14 < delinquentme> however for some reason you feel predisposed to be 12:15 < delinquentme> *shrug* maybe you just didn't think about it before you said it. 12:32 < delinquentme> seriously kanzure what can I do to help with this issue you're taking. Do you want me to list you as a co-conspirator on this project? 12:33 < delinquentme> I want to get along with you man. I think this kind of shit is stupid and damaging to the overall good 12:34 < kanzure> if you truly believe that then you need to stop thinking that i'm out to get you 12:35 < delinquentme> kanzure, i think theres some underlying motivation which caused you to say " dont waste someones time " 12:35 < delinquentme> True? 12:36 < delinquentme> Because either its wildly unconsidered ... which I dont think you're THAT a-emotional or you're pissed about it 12:36 < kanzure> pissed about what? 12:36 < delinquentme> You're avoiding the question 12:37 < kanzure> uh 12:37 < delinquentme> what was the underlying motivation 12:38 < kanzure> i wanted to give you advice 12:38 < delinquentme> if you want listed or more credit on the OpSci project say it 12:38 < kanzure> haven't heard that name in a while 12:38 < delinquentme> You gave me the journal list on it. I executed on it 12:39 < kanzure> i don't think that telling doug about opsci is going to do anything interesting 12:39 < delinquentme> I dont either. But I think the conversation would be. 12:39 < kanzure> uh? 12:40 < kanzure> why 12:40 * delinquentme facepalm 12:40 < kanzure> zotero is much more widely known and has more coverage, and i'm pretty certain he's aware of software such as zotero 12:40 < kanzure> (coverage as in publisher coverage of course) 12:41 < kanzure> telling him about scraper automation just doesn't seem to be useful 12:41 < kanzure> he doesn't need scrapers, he has his own data, right? 12:41 < gradstudentbot> No, you can't borrow my pipette. 12:42 < delinquentme> point taken 12:43 < kanzure> if anything, what he needs is a way to change his business into something that will survive the collapse of the academic publishing industry 12:44 < kanzure> even as the academic publishing industry collapses, giant megacorps like elsevier will take a loooong time to completely die 12:44 < kanzure> including his own 12:45 < kanzure> there's a bunch of competing trends that probably seem bad from the perspective of publishers 12:46 < kanzure> open access copyright licenses, grant funding agencies insisting on certain legal terms, collapse of NIH/NSF funding 12:46 < kanzure> p2p file sharing 12:46 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:46 < kanzure> bustable DRM and watermarks 12:46 < kanzure> "altmetrics" 12:46 < kanzure> preprint servers 12:47 < kanzure> and then second-order effects, stuff like mendeley (which got acquired of course), google scholar, MOOCs and a possible downtrend in traditional university structure (which might stop the faucet of cheap science labor eventually) 12:48 < kanzure> oh yeah, and then the insane working conditions of researchers, "postdocs" are considered junior, the low pay of basically all science-related industries 12:48 < kanzure> dwindling library budgets to pay subscription fees 12:49 < kanzure> and then there's all the weird dynamics at play inside of the publishers: researchers are *paying* them to publish their papers, often per page or per figure, which is a really broken dynamic that leaves them vulnerable in a lot of places 12:59 < kanzure> 12:59 < betkowski> How many people submitted games last LD? 12:59 < kanzure> 12:59 < OmegaVesko> betkowski: 2400 or so, I think 13:16 < entelechios> nice rant 13:17 < kanzure> he's the one calling me a dick but he *leaves* halfway through a wonderful rant, pfft 13:18 < entelechios> i think i know the difference between you being a dick and you having something interesting to say 13:18 < entelechios> you've bluntly told me to 'fuck off' before 13:19 < kanzure> yes, but what were you saying at the time? 13:19 < entelechios> i think i was asking archels if he had any thoughts on hamerhoff and penrose's theories 13:20 < kanzure> oh yeah, that's definitely a valid reason to tell you to get out and/or lost 13:20 < entelechios> that won't convince me though 13:20 < entelechios> you oughta work on your rhetoric a little maybe 13:20 < entelechios> seems to be rubbing people the wrong way here 13:21 < entelechios> i mean ultimately your goal should be persuading people to think the way you think if you really think you're right 13:21 < kanzure> haha no there's a history with delinquentme where he thinks i'm an asshole, don't read too much into it 13:21 < kanzure> why should i bother persuading you to not talk about penrose? 13:21 < entelechios> no, because i think you can be an asshole too sometimes. and i think you oughta persuade me that their theories are shit if you really think that way rather than 'fuck off' 13:21 < kanzure> i don't mind people talking about those thoeries somewhere, just not here 13:22 < kanzure> i'm not really upset that there's people who talk about penrose's ideas 13:22 < kanzure> lots of people talk about all sorts of things out there 13:22 < entelechios> why wouldn't it be open to discussion 13:22 < entelechios> i still don't hear any well presented reasons 13:22 < kanzure> signla/noise 13:22 < kanzure> *signal 13:23 < kanzure> signal/noise is the lazy answer 13:23 < entelechios> and so you're the CRM114 discriminator here? 13:24 < kanzure> i don't know if that analogy fits, i'm dropping a bomb on a city and there's a recall code that consists of quantum theories about consciousness? 13:25 < entelechios> it works by only listening up when certain tones are sent to it and shutting out everything else to the peril of the world 13:25 < kanzure> so i'm destroying the planet because i don't believe that quantum consciousness is something worth subjecting the channel to? 13:25 < kanzure> i get this a lot. next you're going to tell me i'm a bioterrorist, right? 13:26 < entelechios> no, i won't tell you you're a bioterrorist 13:26 < kanzure> alright 13:26 < entelechios> that's kind of a funny thing to call someone 13:27 < entelechios> kanzure, you're a cybersex god 13:28 < entelechios> and a social media guru 13:34 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:41 -!- eridu [~eridu@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:58 < kanzure> http://www.jove.com/video/50630/a-computer-assisted-multi-electrode-patch-clamp-system 13:59 < kanzure> "A biophysically detailed model of neocortical local field potentials predicts the critical role of active membrane currents" http://hearingbrain.org/docs/ReimannEtAl_LFPmodel.pdf 13:59 < kanzure> "We simulated the LFP in a model of the rodent neocortical column composed of >12,000 reconstructed, multicompartmental, and spiking cortical layer 4 and 5 pyramidal neurons and basket cells, including five million dendritic and somatic compartments with voltage- and ion-dependent currents, realistic connectivity, and probabilistic AMPA, NMDA, and GABA synapses. We found that, depending on a number of factors, the LFP reflects local and ... 13:59 < kanzure> ... cross-layer processing. Active currents dominate the generation of LFPs, not synaptic ones. Spike-related currents impact the LFP not only at higher frequencies but below 50 Hz." 14:08 < kanzure> fenn: here's one you might like, 14:08 < kanzure> "New insights into the classification and nomenclature of cortical GABAergic interneurons" http://real.mtak.hu/6584/7/MainText.pdf 14:13 < jrayhawk> "05:12 < mosasaur> Although I had a hard time accepting that early humans might have been meat eaters." there's a big switchover from C3 to C4 ecology about 1.5 million years ago, about the same time eoliths and marks of tool-based butchering start showing up on animal bones. 14:14 < jrayhawk> Of note, humans do not manufacture mk4 and need to get it through C4-consuming intermediary animals. 14:15 < nsh> what's all this jibberjabber 14:15 < nsh> mk4? C4? 14:15 < nsh> .g c3 c4 ecology 14:15 < yoleaux> http://dare.uva.nl/document/196233 14:15 < nsh> .t 14:15 < yoleaux> Fri, 25 Apr 2014 21:15:48 UTC 14:17 < jrayhawk> (also of note is that humans do not manufacture DHA and need to get it through aquatic animals, but you already seem sold on that) 14:20 < jrayhawk> nsh: mk4 is menaquinone with 4 isoprene units 14:21 < jrayhawk> it is an animal form distinct from the plant-based menaquinone with 7 isoprene units 14:25 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:25 < jrayhawk> oh, he's not even in here 14:25 < jrayhawk> poops 14:28 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, but his project was so easy. 14:32 < nsh> thanks 14:39 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@24-65-15.connect.netcom.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:04 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:10 < xentrac> 17:15 < jrayhawk> (also of note is that humans do not manufacture DHA and need to get it through aquatic animals, but you already seem sold on that) 15:10 < xentrac> does that mean humans can't live on land-based food alone? 15:10 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:12 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.137.75] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:12 < FourFire> I've read a story of someone who ate only chicken nuggets and chips for 17 years 15:21 < jrayhawk> xentrac: not very well; along with being used to construct eicosanoids, DHA is used for building every part of a neuron. 15:21 < jrayhawk> Cognitive decline is the usual result. 15:23 < xentrac> what's the possible connection between C₃→C₄ and butchering? 15:24 < jrayhawk> Different food chains. A transition from direct frugivorous diets to grassland carnivorous diets. 15:25 < jrayhawk> .g c3 c4 isotope human diet 15:25 < yoleaux> http://luna.cas.usf.edu/~rtykot/10%20Tykot.pdf 15:26 < jrayhawk> .g selective butchering million years 15:26 < yoleaux> http://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/evidence-for-meat-eating-by-early-humans-103874273 15:27 < jrayhawk> (Vegetarians like to ignore the butchering part and claim we switched over to eating grass 1.5 million years ago, which is pretty funny) 15:29 < jrayhawk> oh, my timeline is completely wrong. 3.5 Ma? dayum. 15:32 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-50-143-123.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:34 < xentrac> well, we do eat a lot of grass today 15:34 < xentrac> I mean, wheat, rye, millet, sorghum, corn, and so on are grasses 15:34 < xentrac> also rice 15:36 < xentrac> http://www.health.harvard.edu/fhg/updates/Why-not-flaxseed-oil.shtml claims that you can get adequate DHA from flax (which is also a grass) 15:37 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:37 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:37 < xentrac> to be more specific, it claims that humans do manufacture DHA from ALA, and by consuming a lot of ALA you can get enough DHA 15:38 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@24-65-15.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:39 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:39 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:46 < xentrac> like 10×. so to equal one of the 2g pills at 15:46 < xentrac> which contain 600mg DHA 15:46 < xentrac> you need to eat 6g of ALA, which is about 25g of flax seed 15:47 < xentrac> which is close to what flaxseed vendors recommend you eat per day 15:47 < xentrac> it's also a lot smallr than the amount of fish (say, 170g) you need to eat to get the same amount of DHA 15:50 -!- Phyks [~Phyks@phyks.me] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:50 < Phyks> hi 15:50 < kanzure> hello 15:51 < xentrac> flaxseed is kind of an outlier though when it comes to ω-3 contents. but it seems like even things like olives, chia seeds, hemp seeds, or soybeans might be in the same ballpark as fish when it comes to DHA? 15:51 < Phyks> kanzure: actually, I'm writing some biblio management script for myself and I need some functionnalities similar to paperbot 15:52 < kanzure> zotero has a browser extension 15:52 < Phyks> I know about it, but it doesn't fit my needs 15:52 < Phyks> I just want some kind of extended paperbot on my local computer : 15:52 < Phyks> :) 15:53 < kanzure> can you describe the input and the output? 15:53 < Phyks> do you know mpc ? 15:53 < kanzure> .g mpc 15:53 < yoleaux> http://www.moving-picture.com/ 15:53 < kanzure> movie studio? 15:54 < Phyks> my idea for the (basic) interface is a bit the same : script import PDF_FILE to import a file, script download LINK to download it, and search it the same way as the mpc search engine 15:54 < Phyks> (mpc = music player client, a client for mpd) 15:54 < kanzure> mpc search engine does local search? 15:54 < Phyks> it does search in a MPD music library 15:55 < Phyks> (but I just mention it because you can do something like mpc search artist SOME_ARTIST) 15:55 < xentrac> I'm fasting today so I should stop talking about food. it's making me hungry. 15:56 < Phyks> each time I import / dl a pdf, I fetch metadata from DOI / ISBN search in pdf fulltext and query on servers. I maintain a bibtex index for all papers 15:56 < Phyks> and now, I'm working about the "download" part and paperbot may fit my needs, to include it as some kind of module 15:56 < kanzure> you might also be interested in https://github.com/kanzure/pdfparanoia 15:56 < kanzure> i don't have a pdf2doi tool yet 15:56 < Phyks> yep, I saw this one, I'm really interested in pdfpranoia 15:57 < Phyks> kanzure: it's poorly written but here are the necessary functions for PDF2DOI : https://github.com/Phyks/BiblioManager/blob/master/main.py 15:57 < Phyks> (check findDOI and doi2Bib functions) 15:57 < kanzure> does it use pdftotext 15:57 < Phyks> yes 15:57 < Phyks> best way I could find 15:57 < kanzure> hmm 15:57 < Phyks> way faster than pdf modules in python 15:58 < Phyks> (and much more reliable) 15:58 < kanzure> how do you know which doi corresponds to the paper? sometimes doi numbers appear in the bibliography inside the paper. 15:58 < Phyks> just a test : 15:58 < Phyks> paperbot: http://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.112.025302 15:59 < Phyks> paperbot: http://journals.aps.org/prl/pdf/10.1103/PhysRevLett.112.025302 15:59 < kanzure> sometimes paperbot is slow 15:59 < Phyks> ok 15:59 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, I'm a 4th year. No wait, I'm a 6th year. 15:59 < Phyks> kanzure: I take the first matched DOI 16:00 < Phyks> I tested it in my papers, and it works quite nice 16:00 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-50-143-123.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:00 < Phyks> it's a rewrite of this code http://en.dogeno.us/2010/02/release-a-python-script-for-organizing-scientific-papers-pyrenamepdf-py/, which was working well according to this post 16:00 < gradstudentbot> Friends don't let friends go to super school. 16:01 < kanzure> hm 16:01 < Phyks> kanzure: so, both links should be ok for paperbot, right ? 16:01 < paperbot> RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded in cmp (file "/usr/lib/python2.7/_weakrefset.py", line 73, in __contains__) 16:01 < paperbot> RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded in cmp (file "/usr/lib/python2.7/_weakrefset.py", line 73, in __contains__) 16:01 < Phyks> I think for my code, I will then drop zotero-translation-server and just use the second one 16:02 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@36.90-149-182.nextgentel.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:14 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:41 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:54 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@36.90-149-182.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:09 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:18 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:19 < kanzure> delinquentme: you left halfway through the conversation, http://gnusha.org/logs/2014-04-25.log 17:19 < delinquentme> kanzure, how are you handling async w phantom.js 17:19 < delinquentme> yeah had new packages installed --- needed reboot 17:19 < kanzure> often with this: http://npmjs.org/package/q 17:20 < kanzure> this is very useful for using node modules in phantomjs: https://www.npmjs.org/package/phantomjsify 17:20 < jrayhawk> xentrac: No, conversion efficiency is below measurement margine of error in nonpregnant women, and pregnant women are a weird special case because they're releasing it in huge amounts from stores. 17:20 < jrayhawk> s/margine/margin/ 17:21 < jrayhawk> s/nonpregnant women/non-(pregnant women) 17:22 < delinquentme> have a working example of node.js and q that I can copy ? 17:22 < delinquentme> login form preferable 17:25 < kanzure> no, i use q for the main phantomjs context 17:25 < kanzure> and sometimes i use substack's mitm html injection thing so that i can load up browserify stuff straight into each page before it even loads in phantomjs 17:25 < kanzure> gah what was the thing called 17:26 < kanzure> schooldeath.. something. 17:26 < kanzure> https://github.com/substack/schoolbus 17:30 -!- kyknos_ [~kyknos@89.233.130.143] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:37 -!- pad2 [~not@100.43.114.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:39 < xentrac> jrayhawk: what you are saying seems not to be a mainstream medical or biological point of view 17:40 < xentrac> I'm obviously not familiar enough with the field to make a stronger statement than that 17:54 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:57 -!- pads [~not@100.43.114.90] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:57 -!- pads is now known as Guest57421 18:03 < jrayhawk> I don't care what the mainstream medical or biological point of view is, I care what the actual papers say. 18:07 < xentrac> the mainstream medical and biological points of view represent a weighting of the conflicting information in the actual papers for credibility and consistency 18:07 < xentrac> much like what you're doing 18:07 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:08 < xentrac> but I notice you didn't link to any actual papers 18:09 < jrayhawk> Wheel of epistemology, turn turn turn, tell us the lesson that we should learn... 18:09 < jrayhawk> .g Human synthesis docosahexaenoic acid 18:09 < yoleaux> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8656081 18:10 < jrayhawk> well, i guess that makes sense 18:10 < jrayhawk> we do actually have pretty robust delongase and desaturase pathways 18:10 < jrayhawk> er, saturase 18:10 < xentrac> you mean elongase? 18:10 < jrayhawk> No, that's 24->22 18:11 < jrayhawk> .g human delongase desaturase docosahexaenoic acid 18:11 < yoleaux> No results found. 18:11 < jrayhawk> i hate you, yoleaux 18:11 < jrayhawk> er, shit 18:11 < jrayhawk> .g human elongase desaturase docosahexaenoic acid 18:11 < yoleaux> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid_desaturase 18:12 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:12 < jrayhawk> god, fine, I'll go actually use a real search engine 18:12 < xentrac> haha 18:16 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:18 < jrayhawk> http://www.jlr.org/content/42/8/1257.full.pdf 18:19 < jrayhawk> http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/77/3/565.full.pdf 18:19 < kanzure> ld48 theme is "beneath the surface" 18:20 -!- HashNuke [uid12117@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-puqbjjyvougetrez] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:20 < jrayhawk> the pawlosky paper is cool because it's doing deuterium labeling 18:20 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:21 < jrayhawk> the end number was a conversion rate of 0.0000000013 18:22 < jrayhawk> http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=ala+dha+supplementation you see concordant results from supplementation studies 18:22 -!- AshleyWaffle_ [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:23 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:23 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:23 < jrayhawk> you may want to give http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf a read (just try to ignore the terrible political narrative) to understand how consensus gets built 18:24 < jrayhawk> and similarly think about the implications of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_of_care 18:25 < jrayhawk> and eight years of senseless psychological violence (residency) as a hazing ritual 18:30 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:33 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:35 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:38 < ebowden> http://wyss.harvard.edu/viewpressrelease/150/cloaked-dna-nanodevices-survive-pilot-mission 18:38 < kanzure> i highly encourage you to not read press releases 18:50 < ebowden> They embellish things? 18:50 < kanzure> they often don't contain any actionable information 18:51 < ebowden> Do they contain information that will allow you to find actionable information? 18:55 < kanzure> often no, it's usually dead ends that would require millions of dollars of licensing fees that, frankly, i don't want to spend 18:55 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:55 < cpopell> ebowden: actionable meaning can you find the source paper? yes. actionable meaning can you do anything from finding the source paper? no 18:55 < ebowden> Ah, right. 18:56 < ebowden> So, the source paper won't be of much use? 18:56 < ebowden> (Well, to you.) 18:56 < cpopell> it probably won't help you reproduce it, which is Kanzure's goal 18:57 < cpopell> http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/nn5011914 e.g. this is the actual paper 18:58 < cpopell> (as far as I can tell) 18:58 < ebowden> So, kanzure wouldn't be able to reproduce the particles? 18:58 < ebowden> Thanks. 18:59 < cpopell> I have an interest in general tracking what's happening, which has caused Kanzure no end of irritation because he doesn't want more Kurzweil-esque useless demagogues 18:59 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:59 < cpopell> brb. 19:00 < ebowden> Kurzweil-esque? 19:00 < ebowden> Oh, ok. 19:03 < ebowden> paperbot: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/nn5011914 19:03 < kanzure> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7648237 "I wonder, if this is the way a majority of big businesses do things, how come we don't see more leaks of entire codebases? It'd be trivial to put something up on TPB and just share all the code, but I don't see things like that happening. I also doubt that every single employee with access to the code has the moral standards not to do this. There must be something else keeping them from doing it." 19:03 < kanzure> 18:58 < ebowden> So, kanzure wouldn't be able to reproduce the particles? 19:03 < kanzure> sigh 19:03 < paperbot> XMLSyntaxError: None (file "/home/bryan/code/paperbot/phenny/modules/scihub.py", line 51, in _go) 19:03 < kanzure> nobody said that 19:04 < kanzure> oh, i guess cpopell did, but he didn't say it directly 19:04 < gradstudentbot> Who the hell stole my pipette? 19:04 < kanzure> journalists always get everything wrong in every single field of study 19:04 -!- kyknos__ [~kyknos@89.233.130.143] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:04 < kanzure> news is probably the worst source of information you can pick 19:04 < kanzure> and it's not even the "good" type of worst 19:06 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:06 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:07 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:08 -!- kyknos_ [~kyknos@89.233.130.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:10 -!- ivan` [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:11 < ebowden> Kanzure, do you have any reason to re-produce those particles at the moment? 19:11 < kanzure> why are you asking? 19:11 < kanzure> i don't understand 19:12 < ebowden> "Virus-Inspired Membrane Encapsulation of DNA Nanostructures To Achieve In Vivo Stability" 19:13 -!- ivan` [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:14 < gradstudentbot> Is there free food at that seminar? 19:16 -!- ivan` [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Client Quit] 19:16 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:17 -!- ivan` [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:17 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:20 -!- ivan` [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Client Quit] 19:24 -!- ivan` [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:27 -!- AshleyWaffle_ is now known as AshleyWaffle 19:57 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:01 -!- yoleaux [~yoleaux@xn--ht-1ia18f.nonceword.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:12 -!- cpopell [~cpopell@pool-71-255-241-91.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:20 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:21 -!- cpopell [~cpopell@pool-71-255-241-91.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:34 < kanzure> torrents deploying code at facebook https://www.facebook.com/publications/514128035341603/ 20:38 -!- kardan [~kardan@2a02:810d:1100:af8:95b1:6157:5d37:95e2] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:42 -!- entelechios [~elysium@181.194.129.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:43 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:44 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:51 -!- kardan [~kardan@2a02:810d:1100:af8:ddb2:cf20:a7f5:e2a7] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:52 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:52 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:54 -!- sivoais_ [~zaki@199.19.225.239] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:55 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:12 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:17 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:18 -!- ParahSailin_ [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:19 -!- sivoais_ is now known as sivoais 21:19 -!- sivoais [~zaki@199.19.225.239] has quit [Changing host] 21:19 -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:21 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:22 < fenn> can someone load this url in their browser and tell me about how long it takes until you see the text of the message? https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/d3-js/z6yNV6sz58M/XOX-KuTBcC8J 21:23 < kanzure> 13 seconds 21:23 < fenn> okay good 21:24 < fenn> am i correct in thinking that 13 seconds is too long? 21:24 < kanzure> yep 21:25 < kanzure> they've been screwing up google groups for years, it's not very surprising 21:25 < fenn> if you click on this thing, does it animate? http://bl.ocks.org/mbostock/4063423 21:25 < kanzure> no 21:25 < fenn> huh. i guess it broke in the last few days 21:26 < kanzure> if you click "size" or "count" then it animates. 21:26 < fenn> right 21:26 < fenn> you used to be able to zoom in on each pie wedge 21:28 < fenn> damn, i thought i had fixed chrome's memory hogging but then it crashed 21:32 -!- ParahSailin_ [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:34 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35 < kanzure> fenn: do you have a collection of 3d models of dinosaurs by any chance 21:35 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:36 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:38 < fenn> wow this sunburst demo looks completely different on an ipad 21:39 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-225-26-162.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-197-103-231.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:39 < fenn> oh nm it's a different gist 21:40 < fenn> sigh there goes chrome again 21:50 < fenn> this is the zooming/animating sunburst chart http://bl.ocks.org/mbostock/4348373 21:51 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:52 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:56 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:57 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:59 < jrayhawk> fenn: the text is pretty much instant for me 22:00 < kanzure> are you rendering without js? 22:00 < jrayhawk> yes 22:00 < jrayhawk> i am a little impressed google knows to interpret the anchor 22:00 < jrayhawk> i didn't even know that got sent 22:00 < kanzure> anchor changed a long time ago to correspond to
element ids 22:01 < jrayhawk> er, yeah 22:01 < jrayhawk> that 22:01 < kanzure> so what is going to happen to all the usenet data 22:01 < jrayhawk> what's that called if not anchor, now? 22:01 < kanzure> hashcrap 22:01 < kanzure> "the twitter thing" :( 22:02 < jrayhawk> octothorpe 22:02 < fenn> you can link to any div? 22:02 < fenn> i mean, is that html or just some GWT thing 22:03 < kanzure> try it 22:03 < kanzure> not gwt 22:03 < jrayhawk> "fragment identifier" 22:03 < kanzure> user agent implementation thing 22:03 < jrayhawk> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragment_identifier 22:03 < kanzure> congrats jrayhawk you've now learned a web thing 22:03 < kanzure> do you feel good? because you shouldn't. 22:03 < jrayhawk> "its processing is exclusively client-side with no participation from the web server" 22:04 < jrayhawk> I learned google is doing the impossible 22:04 < fenn> can you link to any id? 22:04 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04 < jrayhawk> eh, i am not too resentful to learn URI things 22:05 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/groups#atlanta 22:05 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:07 < fenn> how big is the usenet archive? 22:08 < kanzure> small enough for henry spencer to have tape backups of its entirety 22:08 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:09 < jrayhawk> okay, apparently #! is special...? 22:09 < kanzure> usually that's some stupid client-side js single-page-app scam 22:10 < kanzure> where the fragment is used to inform the javascript on the page which actual content to request from the server 22:10 < jrayhawk> https://developers.google.com/webmasters/ajax-crawling/ 22:10 < fenn> https://archive.org/details/usenet 22:10 < kanzure> angularjs and backbone do this out of the box iirc for their routing 22:10 < jrayhawk> https://developers.google.com/webmasters/ajax-crawling/docs/specification 22:11 < kanzure> "This historical collection of Usenet spans more than 30 years and was given to us by a generous donor" probably henry spencer 22:11 < jrayhawk> so apparently it is a google-specific extension to RFC3986 specifically to work around the fact that AJAX is horrible 22:11 < jrayhawk> i guess i am down with my browser supporting that 22:12 < kanzure> it's also so that they don't have to write custom scraper code for each single-page javascript app 22:12 < jrayhawk> Yeah. 22:12 < fenn> "hash fragments have the advantage that in and of themselves, they do not incur an HTTP request and thus no round-trip from the browser to the server and back." makes sense 22:12 < jrayhawk> I consider that a subset of AJAX being horrible. 22:12 < fenn> i wish they wouldn't call it a "hash fragment" though 22:14 < fenn> why can't the crawler just do all this JS stuff on its own 22:14 < jrayhawk> this feels more like I've learned an anti-web thing. an outside specification undoing damage incurred by the w3. 22:15 < kanzure> fenn: halting problem stuff, resource utilization stuff 22:15 < fenn> are you saying AJAX is a w3 thing? 22:16 < jrayhawk> Dynamic pages are a w3 thing. 22:17 < gradstudentbot> Can I defend with just one aim done? 22:18 < jrayhawk> fenn: aside from resource problems, many crawlers aren't that smart and crawling resource trees in highly dynamic environments much more likely to be infinite in scope 22:18 < jrayhawk> s/much/is/ 22:18 < jrayhawk> er, is much 22:18 < fenn> i'm not sure how rfc3986 solves that 22:19 < fenn> er, not rfc.. whatever the google ajax-crawling thing is called 22:20 < jrayhawk> graceful (specifically, controlled) degradation 22:20 < gradstudentbot> I'll be at the microscope. 22:21 < fenn> this is a transformation of the ajax scheme but it still has an infinite number of possible urls 22:21 < jrayhawk> yeah, with cgi that's always possible 22:21 < fenn> so the crawler still has to decide which urls to load 22:22 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:22 < fenn> i am still reading what the difference between an URI a URL and a URN is 22:22 < kanzure> deciding which urls to load wasn't the problem this was trying to solve 22:23 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:26 * fenn reverts to web 1.0 22:27 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:27 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:33 < kanzure> wasn't there a debtorrent thing? what was it called 22:33 < gradstudentbot> Hey, let's write a paper about that. 22:34 < fenn> debtorrent 22:35 < fenn> is there a "legal upright citizen's torrent tracker search engine" like the pirate bay, but for stuff like usenet archives or wikipedia dumps? 22:38 < fenn> i guess it's archive.org 22:38 < fenn> there's no comments or useful descriptions of anything though 22:42 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 22:42 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:45 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-183-36.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:48 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:48 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:51 < fenn> i wonder why kiwix is still not in ubuntu 22:52 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:53 -!- ParahSailin [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:08 -!- joshcryer [~g@unaffiliated/joshcryer] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:33 -!- catern [~catern@catern.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:37 -!- catern [~catern@catern.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:38 < xmj> whats that? --- Log closed Sat Apr 26 00:00:51 2014