--- Log opened Sun May 04 00:00:58 2014
--- Day changed Sun May 04 2014
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00:02 < kanzure> huh i forgot about some of these
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00:03 < kanzure> like the technocalypse clip about dumping cat visual cortex data to video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLb9EIiSyG8&index=9&list=PLgO7JBj821uEq-iLteI2BgeXc8JY1PgF2
00:03 < kanzure> (this isn't the fmri thing that was recently reported)
00:04 < gradstudentbot> Should have gone to med school.
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00:44 < nsh> tyty
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01:52 < kanzure> hrm i have eleitl's physical mailing address
01:52 < kanzure> now, what should i troll him with?
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02:39 < mosasaur> Did someone say gobbledigook? http://www.machinedlearnings.com/2014/02/stranger-in-strange-land.html
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04:00 <@_archels> "SSDs expected to outpace HDD density"
04:00 <@_archels> now you have my attention.
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04:16 < JayDugger1> A catalog of vacation homes in rural Manitoba?
04:17 < JayDugger1> That seems right up his alley.
04:17 < gradstudentbot> Oh a sales rep? No, I'm not busy, sure I have time to talk.
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04:46 < fenn> "Fetuses of the Giant Panda have been grown in the womb of a cat by intercurrently inserting panda and cat embryos into the cat womb." you learn something every day
04:48 < JayDugger1> Did they come to term?
04:49 < fenn> "nuclei from cells taken from abdominal muscles of giant pandas were transferred to egg cells of rabbits and, in turn, transferred into the uterus of cat together with cat embryos."
04:50 < JayDugger1> How exciting! SCNT clones of giant pandas, or panda-rabbit-cat chimeras.
04:51 < JayDugger1> How awesome is this glorious future of ours!
04:52 < fenn> this is the paper, i'm not sure what the eventual fate of the embryos was: http://www.biolreprod.org/content/67/2/637
04:53 < fenn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabbit
04:53 < fenn> they are also intergalactic spaceships
04:57 < JayDugger1> Silly me. I should remember that Japanese pop culture has most of the good ideas first.
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04:57 < fenn> ryo-ohki and ryouko are both made from the same mass of undifferentiated cells by mad scientist washu, using varying amounts of her own DNA
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05:01 < mosasaur> At some point the harem starts to own you.
05:03 < fenn> in the case of tenchi, it was around episode 1
05:05 < mosasaur> he'd probably be better off with a chobit
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05:09 < fenn> wouldn't we all
05:12 < mosasaur> fenn: I have this theory that Hacker News puts articles on its front page based on our IRC chats.
05:14 < mosasaur> Basically, that article I linked earlier is just a rephrasing of our discussion from yesterday.
05:15 < fenn> the machined learnings one?
05:15 < mosasaur> yes
05:16 < fenn> it was all pretty new to me
05:18 < fenn> "any sufficiently check-pointed undo is indistinguishable from reversible computing" is what you're referring to i guess
05:20 < mosasaur> That's certainly one of them. But there are others that are more like convergent evolution of memes.
05:20 < fenn> .ety apophenia
05:20 < yoleaux> Sorry, I couldn't find the etymology of that.
05:21 < fenn> i don't read hacker news
05:21 < fenn> is it possible that your meme shares a common ancestor with whatever shows up on HN?
05:23 < gradstudentbot> My PI went fishing in 1987 for proteins associated with cancer. He hasn't returned yet.
05:23 < mosasaur> Yes. It's even more likely. But it doesn't feel that way.
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05:41 < mosasaur> Anyway, for our email retraction problem, they would probably delegate it to some subprocess. “please don't do an expensive restore, I'll handle this one”
05:42 < fenn> i would hope so
05:42 < fenn> a "restore" would also delete all the other emails
05:44 < fenn> "specific experience of an abnormal meaningfulness" sounds like some features of schizophrenia
05:45 < fenn> but it's so common in human experience that we should have a name for the opposite instead
05:45 < fenn> pophenia :)
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05:47 < fenn> sometimes i wonder if the cat really thinks there's something rustling under the paper bag or it's just pretending
05:50 < mosasaur> The cat is another thing they knew about: "While it takes a lot of computers to recognize a cat, the total core-hours is still less than 106."
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05:51 < fenn> 10^6
05:52 < mosasaur> No wonder it took you so long
05:52 < fenn> i'm not a computer
05:52 < mosasaur> Still, you didn't see it coming
05:52 < fenn> .g they're made out of meat
05:52 < yoleaux> http://www.terrybisson.com/page6/page6.html
05:53 < mosasaur> they're designed to be anti pareidolic
05:54 < fenn> what are?
05:54 < mosasaur> cats are sneaky bastards
05:55 < fenn> ... i thought you were going to say "computers"
05:57 < fenn> teach teh controversy: http://fennetic.net/irc/cats_snakes.jpg
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06:03 < fenn> .thesaurus randomania
06:03 < yoleaux> No thesaurus entry for "randomania".
06:05 < mosasaur> .wik denial
06:05 < yoleaux> "Denial, in ordinary English usage, is asserting that a statement or allegation is not true. The same word, and also abnegation, is used for a psychological defense mechanism postulated by Sigmund Freud, in which a person is faced with a fact that is too uncomfortable to accept and rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite  …" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial
06:05 < fenn> no, that's different
06:06 < fenn> randomania is when you accept that something happened, but insist that it didn't happen for a reason
06:06 < fenn> the word is only defined in an alternate reality though
06:06 < gradstudentbot> Who used the last of the buffer?
06:07  * fenn sips on a cool tall glass of phosphate buffered saline
06:08 < mosasaur> that's really cute, because ordinarily there is no conceivable falsification of such theories
06:09 < fenn> http://www.paloaltohistory.com/william-shockley.php "William Shockley: Paranoia Runs Deep" unflattering mini-bio
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06:10 < fenn> hello Languager
06:10 < Languager> hello
06:11 < fenn> loqueris tu interlingua
06:13 < fenn> too many cookies. i need to stop doing that
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07:04 <@_archels> any recommendations on a pH meter?
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07:06 < nsh_> boil some pregnancy tests in a pot with cabbage and two duck's eggs
07:27 < fenn> _archels: what size of container are you going to measure from? test tube? small neck tissue culture flask? beaker? aquarium?
07:29 < fenn> wait i thought you did simulations
07:29 <@_archels> let's say beaker
07:29 <@_archels> yeah, this is just for some hobby stuff off the side
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07:35 < fenn> _archels: this looks pretty solid and they actually give you technical info http://www.amazon.com/Oakton-EcoTestr-Waterproof-Tester-Range/dp/B004G8PWAU/ref=lp_393271011_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1399213264&sr=1-1
07:36 < fenn> i would want one with USB but i don't see anything reasonable
07:37 < fenn> i mean this is kinda overkill http://www.amazon.com/Mettler-Toledo-S220U-SevenCompact-University/dp/B00AKIR2YY/ref=sr_1_6?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1399214179&sr=1-6&keywords=usb+ph+meter
07:38 <@_archels> yeah, initially I was thinking of getting one with a replacable probe
07:38 < fenn> the extech one has a replaceable probe but the probe is $50
07:38 <@_archels> then I thought to myself that in 2014 we ought to've come up with something fundamentally better than these contact testers
07:38 <@_archels> I'm counting on you, ##hplusroadmap
07:39 < fenn> oh you could do proton NMR
07:39 < fenn> lol
07:39 <@_archels> haha
07:40 < fenn> give it twenty years and it'll be on amazon, with LiDi 3.0 autocorrecting lab AI companion
07:40 < fenn> proudly made in republic of malawi
07:41 < fenn> okay that's enough predicting for today
07:43 < fenn> it's endlessly fascinating the uses for perovskites.. this pH meter probe is made of PVDF
07:43 < fenn> it seems like perovskite is the magic crystal that makes all the lab equipment go
07:44 < fenn> oh nevermind PVDF is not a perovskite after all
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08:08 < kanzure> thought he'd never leave
08:08 < cluckj> heh
08:17 < kanzure> <li> Warnings when bonds exceed reasonable limits during simulatione
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08:45 < kanzure> "In the year 1985, US FDA approved the company's bulk drug manufacturing facilities." oh yeah.. they also regulate that. right.
08:45 < kanzure> "In 2001, Cipla offered medicines (antiretrovirals) for HIV treatment at a fractional cost (less than $350 per year per patient)"
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08:45 < kanzure> "Cipla has 34 manufacturing units in 8 locations across India and has presence in 170 countries"
08:48 < fenn> http://www.foodtimeline.org/  they forgot fern fiddleheads, and seaweed should be pushed further back, but otherwise pretty interesting
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08:48 < kanzure> "presence in 170 countries" i wonder what counts as presence
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09:05 < FourFire> kanzure, thanks for hosting "Dragon's Egg" and "Starquake"
09:06 < FourFire> I just finished Dragon's egg and found to my surprise that it (written over 30 years before I had it) contained my main idea for genetic improvement
09:06 < kanzure> i don't think i'm hosting that
09:08 < FourFire> I just got the PDF from "diyhpl.us/~bryan/[...]"
09:08 < FourFire> that isn't you?
09:08 < kanzure> alright
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09:59 < fenn> this looks familiar http://quantifiedawesome.com/time/graph?end=2014-05-04&start=2014-04-05
10:00 < kanzure> because it's sacha chua
10:01 < gradstudentbot> You can't guarantee that.
10:01 < fenn> no i mean the graphs are exactly what i did/was planning for my remake
10:01 < kanzure> huh, i've known sacha since 2005?
10:01 < fenn> wow
10:02 < fenn> uh, why? how?
10:02 < fenn> apparently she does emacs-lisp consulting?
10:02 < kanzure> 2005 was around the time i was spending 25 hours/day on my giant todo list of death
10:03 < kanzure> and there was an article about something related written by sacha
10:03 < kanzure> so i emailed
10:03 < fenn> i should re-learn emacs
10:04 < fenn> i think i was traumatized by the double whammy of lisp and slime and never recovered
10:05 < kanzure> did you look at the additive manufacturing of piezocomposites pdf that gene_hacker mentioned?
10:06 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ultrasound/Ultrasound%20transducer%20array%20fabrication%20based%20on%20additive%20manufacturing%20of%20piezocomposites.pdf
10:06 < fenn> yes, briefly
10:07 < kanzure> dice-and-fill is probably more practical as long as you don't need 25 micron cuts (where am i going to get a tiny cutting machine?)
10:07 < fenn> does evernote actually work on handwriting or is it a scam?
10:07 < kanzure> i think JayDugger1 might use evernote, he might know
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10:30 < fenn> productivity books are so popular because it makes you feel like you're the sort of person that can be productive  http://sachachua.com/blog/?s=backlog
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10:41 < fenn> geesh you'd think wiktionary.org would run a dictd server
10:48 < catern> fenn: wow, i've never heard of this DICT protocol
10:48 < catern> interesting, I guess? useful?
10:52 < fenn> the command "dict" uses it. i'd rather have local dictionary files actually
10:52 < fenn> but right now i dont feel like figuring out how to run my own dictd server
10:52 < fenn> yay client-server architecture :(
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10:54 < fenn> i sorta wish there were a summary mode with a -v flag to get all the etymology and explanatory prose that normally just floods the terminal and then you have to scroll up to see the definition
10:55 < fenn> anyway it's a standard dictionary format, and that's useful
10:58 < catern> this dict command is pretty helpful, I guess
10:58 < catern> didn't know about it
10:59 < catern> but disk is cheap now so the networked aspect is unnecessary
10:59 < catern> oh, this is from 1997 though
10:59 < catern> well, then it was never necessary???
11:00 < fenn> it may never have been necessary
11:01 < fenn> dictzip is interesting, random-access gunzip
11:10 < fenn> english wiktionary is about 130MB compressed so i can see not wanting to download that, but all the dict-* dictionaries are only 32MB
11:15 < FourFire> fenn with only text??
11:17 < fenn> well it does have almost 4 million entries
11:18 < fenn> apparently 'kaizen' is an english word now
11:18 < fenn> .d kaizen
11:18 < yoleaux> kaizen (/kʌɪˈzɛn/): n. A Japanese business philosophy of continuous improvement of working practices, personal efficiency, etc. — http://is.gd/7JAyTg
11:18 < fenn> that was from oxford dictionary
11:19 < fenn> but wiktionary also has translations of other languages' words to english (this is not included in the 130MB figure)
11:20 < fenn> addendum: turns out installing dictd and dictionaries was just apt-get install dict dictd-*
11:21 < fenn> function dict() { /usr/bin/dict $@ | less ;}
11:22 < Urchin> kaizen was invented by a westerner, ironically
11:26 < kanzure> paperbot: http://arxiv.org/abs/1309.7979
11:26 < kanzure> .title
11:26 < yoleaux> [1309.7979] When does a physical system compute?
11:26 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/When%20does%20a%20physical%20system%20compute%3F.pdf
11:30 < fenn> "what is real?"
11:30 < kanzure> you're only saying that because you're off poking at words
11:31 < fenn> i'm only saying it because i studied alchemy a little
11:31 < kanzure> .ety dawg
11:31 < yoleaux> dawg (n.): "colloquial for dog, attested from 1898." — http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=dawg
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11:36 < fenn> .ety werd
11:36 < yoleaux> Sorry, I couldn't find the etymology of that.
11:36 < fenn> i'm shocked and appalled
11:36 < fenn> .d werd
11:36 < yoleaux> Sorry, I couldn't find a definition for 'werd'.
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11:40 < fenn> .wik WERD
11:40 < yoleaux> "WERD was the first radio station owned and programmed by African Americans. The station was established in Atlanta, Georgia on October 3, 1949." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WERD
11:44 < fenn> from now on i will only abuse the bot in the closet
11:49 < fenn> woah this cheap air purifier has an airflow sensor and speed controller
11:51 < justanotheruser> .wik hplusroadmap
11:51 < yoleaux> justanotheruser: Sorry, I couldn't find article.
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12:10 < fenn> what would happen if you made the most insecure internet-connected computer possible? such that anyone could run any code on it to do anything at all?
12:11 < fenn> obviously it would attract spammers and crackers and so on, and perhaps it would crash and burn
12:12 < fenn> it seems like these could be fixed in a general way that doesn't require registration or proof of citizenship or whatever
12:13 < fenn> you could install an OS with access controls, but then someone could just delete it
12:14 < fenn> it could be monetized by watching what people do with it (like twitter's firehose, hardware-level profiling/dumping)
12:15 < fenn> i can't figure out if this is an insane idea or not
12:17 < dingo> http://www.honeynet.org/
12:18 < dingo> the trick is to just use warm-ready VM's and a tunneling/switching system
12:18 < dingo> and large IP networks
12:18 < dingo> somebdoyw ants port 139? ok, let me point you to a windows machine
12:18 < dingo> you can even go "Oh, this is a WinXP exploit, let me point you to one of those"
12:18 < dingo> let them do their business, record it all, then rewind to the last spnapshot
12:19 < dingo> theres a whole book written about it
12:19 < fenn> you're presupposing they want to do nefarious things and are assuming it's a computer they're breaking into
12:19 < dingo> and organizations and networks and computers dedicated to it
12:19 < fenn> what i'm talking about is literally the most insecure OS possible
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12:20 < dingo> they have that for linux for training courses
12:20 < dingo> a linux with every possible vulnerable version of everything running
12:20 < dingo> insecure linux, if i recall
12:20 < fenn> no, no, no, forget i said anything about security
12:20 < fenn> okay, there's a computer on the internet
12:20 < fenn> it downloads everything and runs everything it sees
12:20 < dingo> ok i'll just forget i even engaged in this conversation hahaha
12:20 < dingo> cu
12:20 < fenn> you connect to it, it does whatever you want
12:20 < dingo> they do that too
12:21 < dingo> http://www.amazon.com/Virtual-Honeypots-Tracking-Intrusion-Detection/dp/0321336321
12:21 < dingo> what you're talking about is somewhere around the 2nd half of this book
12:21 < dingo> niels provos is pretty good guy
12:21 < dingo> you might know him from openssh
12:22 < fenn> ok
12:22 < dingo> http://www.citi.umich.edu/u/provos/
12:22 < fenn> so where can i find one of these honeypots?
12:22 < fenn> i mean, it shouldn't be hidden, to be useful
12:23 < fenn> i guess i'm wondering if the end result is it gets blacklisted from the rest of the internet, or something interesting happens
12:24 < fenn> s/if/whether/
12:24 < dingo> they use unallocated IP's specificly for this purpose
12:24 < dingo> https://www.team-cymru.org/Services/darknets.html
12:25 < fenn> "Any packet that enters a Darknet is by its presence aberrant. No legitimate packets should be sent to a Darknet. Such packets may have arrived by mistake or misconfiguration, but the majority of such packets are sent by malware. This malware, actively scanning for vulnerable devices, will send packets into the Darknet, and this is exactly what we want."
12:25 < fenn> that's not what i'm talking about
12:26 < fenn> this isn't a "dark" computer, it's a voracious code-executing promiscuous system
12:26 < dingo> well read provos's book and just e-mail him
12:27 < dingo> http://old.honeynet.org/papers/virtual/
12:33 < fenn> "The adversary initiates an SSH scan against the IP range 66.252.*. The scan finishes after about three minutes. Don’t worry: Our control mechanisms prevented any harm to other machines." see that's fucking lame
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12:35 < kanzure> public access unhoney pots
12:35 < kanzure> aka the public restroom of the cloud
12:36 < kanzure> does ec2's free tier count?
12:39 < fenn> ec2 is sandboxed per-user so no. also, it has lots of legal EULA restrictions and probably requires a credit card or something like that
12:40 < fenn> if you're guaranteed to get some amount of CPU and RAM and DISK and IO and NET there's nothing that differentiates it from regular computing
12:40 < fenn> which is sort of the point of ec2
12:42 < fenn> i'm glad they have a free tier, otherwise it would be hard for people like me to justify starting to use it
12:44 < fenn> " Spot Instances allow customers to bid on unused Amazon EC2 capacity and run those instances for as long as their bid exceeds the current Spot Price. The Spot Price changes periodically based on supply and demand"  this is the sort of weird emergent behavior i'm interested in
12:45 < fenn> but they've tamed and refined and commoditized it
12:45 < fenn> i.e. you can't sabotage another user's processes to gain CPU time
12:46 < fenn> the point of all this i guess, if your system works successfully in this environment, then we can get rid of security (and the illusion of security) for the most part
12:48 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:50 < fenn> in summary, the defining feature is that the root password is always blank
12:51 -!- kardan [~kardan@199.254.238.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
12:55 < fenn> Running an open proxy is a high risk for the server operator; providing an anonymous proxy server can cause real legal troubles to the owner.[citation needed]
12:57 < fenn> huh. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlanetLab is a group of computers available as a testbed for computer networking and distributed systems research. .. composed of 1090 nodes at 507 sites worldwide. Each research project has a "slice", or virtual machine access to a subset of the nodes. Accounts are limited to persons affiliated with corporations and universities that host PlanetLab nodes.
12:57 < fenn> However, a number of free, public services have been deployed on PlanetLab, including CoDeeN, the Coral Content Distribution Network, and Open DHT.
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13:02 < FourFire> "<fenn> woah this cheap air purifier has an airflow sensor and speed controller" fen do you have an emergency bag?
13:03 < fenn> what do you mean emergency bag?
13:04 < fenn> i have an everyday carry backpack with a few choice bits of gear, and a camping backpack for longer-term wilderness survival
13:04 < fenn> i'm currently re-partitioning stuff, optimizing for weight http://fennetic.net/irc/backpack_items
13:05 < fenn> there's more in the camping bag i haven't added yet
13:12 < fenn> FourFire: the air purifier is a desktop fan thingy for pollen allergies, not a gas mask
13:13 < FourFire> dingo, http://xkcd.com/350/
13:13 < FourFire> fenn same thing
13:14 < fenn> uh, no. gas masks (should) have multiple carbon filters, check valves, a well fitting seal around the face...
13:15 < kanzure> planetlab proxies suck
13:15 < kanzure> if the future is unevenly distributed, then what's the actual distribution?
13:15 < fenn> you can get carbon filters for this but then it doesn't have a particulate filter, and vice versa. also it doesn't go on your face
13:16 < fenn> kanzure: everything is in the bay area, singapore, and a boat off the shore of denmark
13:16 < FourFire> fenn I was asking on an unrelated note, I realize that an air purifier is an appliance
13:16 < FourFire> but I see you do, do you have a lifestraw?
13:17 < fenn> no, i think it's stupid
13:17 < FourFire> why?
13:17 < fenn> "here just lean your face over this rushing torrent of freezing water with a slippery mud bank"
13:17 < kanzure> fenn: that's not just uneven, that's (some geometrical term that is shocking)
13:18 < fenn> the future is geometrically distributed
13:18 < kanzure> unreasonably-highly-clustered
13:18 < FourFire> fenn, how else would you drink?
13:18 < kanzure> in particular, i think that there are irc nerds that have future tech laying around, but they may not be in those geographic areas
13:18 < fenn> .wik geometric distribution
13:18 < yoleaux> "In probability theory and statistics, the geometric distribution is either of two discrete probability distributions:" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometric_distribution
13:19 < FourFire> fill a vessel and you could just as easily drink with the straw from that
13:19 < fenn> FourFire: either fill the sawyer squeeze pouch with dirty water and drink from the filter, or fill my camelback and use the sawyer inline
13:19 < kanzure> asking about the distribution of the future means that you can focus on future stuff that exists now, independent of things like "how much money it is making in the bay area" (because by definition that is less futurey, right?)
13:19 < FourFire> maybe waterborne parasites aren't as big a thing where you live
13:19 < kanzure> if you have maximum penetration of a product, that can't possibly be considered an unevenly distributed portion of "future"
13:20 < fenn> kanzure: that's what you call "outliers"
13:20 < kanzure> yes, well, those are the distribution points that are more interesting
13:20 < fenn> see that long tail on the geometric distribution
13:20 < gradstudentbot> Did you do that pset?
13:21  * fenn stares at gradstudentbot skeptically
13:21 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, but his project was so easy.
13:21 < kanzure> i wonder if the outliers actually have a pattern
13:21 < kanzure> obviously it can't be completely random ("some dude turned 14 and then decided he had an insight about some esoteric portion of high energy particle physics that he's never heard of ")
13:23 < fenn> kanzure: something merely existing and being used by some people does not mean it will become popular or even continue to exist (see e.g. google reader, betamax, jazzercise)
13:23 < kanzure> i dunno if popularity matters for the uneven distribution of future theory
13:24 < kanzure> continued existence i also don't know about- it makes sense that we can be more advanced in the past but lost information
13:24 < fenn> yeah kk points out that technologies never really die, they just become legacy technologies
13:24 < kanzure> popularity only matters if your definition of "the future is already here" means "it's already popular"
13:25 < kanzure> it becomes legacy even if nobody is using it at all, anywhere, ever?
13:25 < fenn> apparently that never happens
13:25  * kanzure scratches his head
13:25 < fenn> weird isn't it
13:26 < fenn> and yes, even if nobody is using it at all, anywhere, the plans to re-make it are still lying around
13:26 < fenn> see for example the up-goer five
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13:28 < fenn> FourFire: supposedly 4 drops of bleach will purify a gallon of water. i should probably look into that as backup for if the sawyer breaks/gets lost
13:29 < kanzure> "If phone ships with Siri, return immediately: do not speak to her and ignore any instructions she gives. Do not remove lead casing. If you experience sudden tingling, nausea, or vomiting, perform a factory reset immediately. Avert eyes while replacing battery. Under certain circumstances, wireless transmitter may control God."
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13:29 < fenn> bleach goes bad but i have some crystalline ammonium persulfate (need to research this)
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13:33 < fenn> alternative speed of light simulation would be really cool
13:33 < kanzure> "Studies: Blood from young mice reverses aging in old mice" alright everyone, lock up your kids, the hordes are coming
13:33 < fenn> you didn't hear about that?
13:34 < fenn> there was speculation that young people could make decent cash just by being tethered to some geezer for a couple weeks
13:34 < fenn> also, it appears to refute the damage theory of aging
13:34 < fenn> including telomere theory and oxidative damage
13:35 < fenn> really a very interesting data point
13:35 < fenn> i hope it doesn't fall apart on further inspection
13:36 < kanzure> is blood stored in blood banks with age information? i assume they have to track stuff, to backtrace whoever gave them HIV.
13:36 < fenn> you need to have systemic circulation for a few weeks, not just "a bag o bloood"
13:36 < fenn> it's hypothesized that hormones generated by the young cells are signalling through the blood to older cells in the other mouse
13:37 < kanzure> hehe mobile app cowboyism is eating up news.google.com http://jmarbach.com/google-news-growth-hack-exposed
13:37 < fenn> spam by any other name
13:38 < FourFire> kanzure, something to do with floaty stem cells in the blood stream?
13:39 < fenn> paperbot: get the paper with the mouse and the other mouse
13:39 < fenn> come on stupid bot!
13:39 < kanzure> try turning him on and off again
13:40 < kanzure> http://vrt-blog.snort.org/2014/05/anatomy-of-exploit-cve-2014-1776.html
13:41 < kanzure> "Once we decoded the shellcode, we found it was also xored. The end result is that the shellcode calls out to download a page from inform.bedircati.com. Our data indicates our customers were targeted by this attack beginning Thursday, April 24, 2014.  According to our cloud web security data we've seen a small number of companies along the manufacturing and industrial vertical targeted.  The initial samples were directed at specific users by ...
13:41 < kanzure> ... name, but, as the attack progressed, this did not stay consistent with some attempts starting simply with "Hi" or "Greetings"."
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13:43 < fenn> where does the RC4 encryption key live?
13:44 < kanzure> looks like it was stored in the swf
13:44 < fenn> i mean, why encrypt something alongside its key?
13:44 < fenn> is this what they teach in hacker school these days
13:44 -!- Qfwfq [~Qfwfq@cm113.kappa36.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Client Quit]
13:44 < fenn> "the riaa does it so it must be legit"
13:44 < kanzure> because there's a bunch of "security experts" that are not good
13:44 < kanzure> so you can buy a bunch of time
13:44 < fenn> s/riaa/sony/
13:45 < fenn> seems like more of a liability than a service
13:45 < kanzure> another reason may be that the unencrypted content is easier to detect by windows malware stuff
13:45 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
13:46 < fenn> oh that's more logical
13:47 < fenn> when i first heard about viruses mutating in the wild i thought it might turn into something
13:48 < kanzure> http://www.unibas.ch/index.cfm?uuid=E11708E2A1B6CA17E9F30BEA67B66F72&show_long=1 "Forschende der Universität Basel haben künstliche Organellen hergestellt, die den Abbau von giftigen Sauerstoffverbindungen unterstützen können."
13:48 < kanzure> i think this is the artificial peroxisome stuff
13:48 < kanzure> paperbot: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/nl401215n
13:48 < kanzure> .title
13:48 < yoleaux> Aiding Nature’s Organelles: Artificial Peroxisomes Play Their Role
13:48 < fenn> but apparently the "mutation" isn't very powerful, just changing around some pre-defined regions to match data it finds (like those snails that cover themselves with camouflage)
13:48 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Aiding%20Natures%20Organelles%3A%20Artificial%20Peroxisomes%20Play%20Their%20Role.txt
13:49 < fenn> it's a text file?
13:49 < kanzure> paperbot uses the paper's title as the filename if it knows the name of the paper
13:49 < kanzure> otherwise it uses a random hash
13:50 < fenn> about that random hash... why is it so long?
13:50 < kanzure> no reason
13:51 < kanzure> 80% of paperbot was written between 1 am and 4 am once upon a time
13:51 < fenn> why dont people just use incrementing integers anymore?
13:51 < kanzure> and therefore is mostly shit
13:51 < kanzure> i didn't want to have to figure out the previous integer
13:52 < fenn> so many awful urls now
13:52 < kanzure> that's not the worst part about paperbot
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13:52 < kanzure> it gets worse
13:53 < fenn> i've seen
13:53 < fenn> auto-generated auto-generated code
13:53 < fenn> that has then been hand-edited by someone who obviously didn't know what they were doing
13:54 < kanzure> fucking librarians
13:55 < fenn> paperbot: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/nl401215n
13:55 < fenn> a promising pause
13:55 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/7704809f87510dcb8d4ace090d09dc44.pdf
13:55 < kanzure> most of the mess we're in is because librarians were too scared to do anything
13:55 < fenn> yeah no shit
13:56 < kanzure> or stand up for themselves etc
13:56 < kanzure> "SURE, loot all of our best academic libraries, WHY NOT"
13:56 < kanzure> "we're just happy that someone is noticing us"
13:56 < fenn> the denial is so ingrained now that they actually think they're doing the right thing by caving in to ridiculous copyright laws and bullying
13:57 < fenn> like why is there no "union of libraries"
13:58 < kanzure> oclc was going to be that i think
13:58 < fenn> oclc was just a book catalog
13:58 < fenn> they couldn't even do that right
13:58 < kanzure> "so many book ontologies! how ever will we survive"
13:58 < fenn> i mean seriously? someone just took all your voluntary contributions and locked them up?
13:59 < fenn> and then you let it happen again? and again?
13:59 < fenn> what the hell are they teaching in library sciences
14:00 < fenn> let me guess, nobody was willing to publish your thesis "how to unionize librarians"
14:02 < fenn> "The Union Library Workers blog is a project of the Progressive Librarians Guild (PLG), an organization devoted to the open exchange of radical views on library and information issues."
14:02 < fenn> let's see just how radical these progressives are
14:03 < fenn> "Michigan State University recently began offering courses previously offered at the National Labor College, which is slated for closure this year. This decision could mean the university will be faced with a $500,000 penalty after the state Senate has decided to ban public universities from offering courses that promote or discourage union organizing. .. No Comments"
14:03 < FourFire> autogenerated autogenerated code??
14:04 < fenn> don't make me repeat myself
14:04 < FourFire> that sounds scary
14:04 < fenn> "Wages for the library's part-time workers are at the forefront of the negotiations, with the town demanding increases for part-time wokers' wages be offset by reductions in full-time workers' benefits and wages."
14:05 < fenn> and so on
14:06 < fenn> apparently doing anything about actually fulfilling the library's mission is unimportant
14:08 < fenn> why should i care about artificial peroxisomes
14:21 < kanzure> something about bubbles
14:21 < kanzure> or organelles
14:22 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peroxisome
14:22 < kanzure> i like the foggy black/white image
14:22 < kanzure> "this glowing grey blob is proof"
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14:23 < fenn> i guess they are showing that they cluster during mitosis to prevent accidental dna damage
14:24 < fenn> normally a peroxisome can just eat whatever it wants and the cell can regenerate that
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14:36 < kanzure> blah i should order one of those DSPs
14:37 < kanzure> or write a simulator thing (or find one?)
14:37 < kanzure> is there going to be a dsp devkit, and is that the one i should order
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14:44 < juri_> fenn: what was the point of libraries again?
14:45 < juri_> please pardon my ignorance, i come from a red state.
14:49 < fenn> to provide access to knowledge
14:49 < fenn> and in america specifically, provide it to everyone
14:50 < fenn> my point was that there's no "union of libraries" fighting back against the publishers paywalling off of everything and charging exhorbitant fees
14:51 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@154.122.74.181] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:51 < fenn> where most of what the libraries pay for is access to things they (or their parent institution) contributed in the first palce
14:51 < juri_> yea, all my memories of libraries were them locking everyone out of the internet, and forcing them to use computers to look up books in some proprietary bibliography.
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14:52 < fenn> that's not even the issue
14:52 < fenn> the issue is that you can't just download that paper about artificial peroxisomes
14:52 < sheena> anyon here know javascript
14:52 < sheena> orwhere kanzure went? :D
14:52 < juri_> "provide access to knowlege" != "shut down the internet"
14:53 < juri_> where i'm from, the libraries, instead of being public internet terminals, were fighting the internet tooth and nail.
14:53  * fenn shrugs
14:53 < fenn> there are other sources of internet
14:53  * sheena feels neglected
14:54 < fenn> sheena: don't ask to ask just ask
14:54 < sheena> function wordwrap( str, width, brk, cut ) {
14:54 < sheena>  
14:54 < sheena>     brk = brk || '<wbr />';
14:54 < sheena>     width = width || 100;
14:54 < sheena>     cut = cut || false;
14:54 < sheena>  
14:54 < sheena>     if (!str) { return str; }
14:54 < sheena>  
14:54 < sheena>     var regex = '.{1,' +width+ '}(\\s|$)' + (cut ? '|.{' +width+ '}|.+$' : '|\\S+?(\\s|$)');
14:54 < sheena> help?
14:55 < fenn> what is the problem exactly?
14:56 < fenn> why is width in there twice
14:57 < gradstudentbot> Argh, what do you mean you don't accept LaTeX submissions??
14:59 < fenn> walk me thru this regex
14:59 < fenn> any character, 1 to width times, and then space or end of line
15:01 < fenn> if cut is defined (?) i don't know what that question mark does
15:02 < fenn> is that ternary syntax
15:03 < sheena> i dont know what
15:03 < sheena> || does, but i figured that out now
15:03 < sheena> http://james.padolsey.com/javascript/wordwrap-for-javascript/
15:04 < fenn> ok. if cut then the regex continues: any character width number of times, or end of line. else if not cut: a word then (a space or end of line)
15:05 < fenn> the foo = foo || bar just sets the default value of foo to bar
15:06 < sheena> i dont understand your message starting with ok. if
15:06 < sheena> can you expand?
15:06 < fenn> cut ? foo : bar evaluates foo if cut is true,  otherwise it evaluates bar
15:06 < sheena> ok.that makse sense
15:06 < fenn> this is called ternary syntax and it's generally considered bad form because it's hard to read
15:07 < sheena> but im still not clear on how the program is word wrapping
15:07 < sheena> do you have a betteer way to word wrap js? :D
15:07 < sheena> that isnt bad form?
15:07 < sheena> i dont really  understand regexp stuff either ;S
15:07 < gradstudentbot> You used the wrong formula.
15:07 < fenn> first of all, isn't that the presentation layer's job?
15:08 < fenn> i mean CSS display: block
15:08 < sheena> me?
15:08 < fenn> sheena: why do you want to do word wrap in javascript?
15:08 < sheena> because i like this wrapping to happen in js.
15:09 < fenn> okay a more straightforward way might be to push your words onto a list, then count the number of letters that have accumulated and then join the list back into a string
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15:10 < sheena> there are very many words... ?
15:10 < sheena> many many many
15:11 < fenn> you only push as many fit into a single line
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15:11 < fenn> oh i left out a key phrase, sorry. 'join the list back into a string when the number of letters is greater than the desired line length'
15:12 < jrayhawk> http://www.ex-parrot.com/pdw/Mail-RFC822-Address.html is my favorite regex specifically because of the insanity of putting logical control flow inside a regex
15:13 < fenn> String.prototype.split (separator, limit)
15:13 < fenn> Splits a String object into an array of strings by separating the string into substrings
15:13 < sheena> hm
15:13 < sheena> im not sure i know how to do this in js/
15:15 < fenn> i'm not even a beginner at js but i imagine this could do wrapping directly like so: var foo="lotsawords" ; lines=foo.split("\n", line length) (assuming you want to keep newlines that already exist)
15:16 < fenn> vroom vroom *fires up chrome V8 console*
15:18 < fenn> okay that didn't work
15:19 < sheena> lol right
15:20 < sheena> also i think th eproblem is more about pasing the right variable to my wordwrapper than it ist he actual word wrapper
15:20 < sheena> :(