--- Log opened Tue May 06 00:00:52 2014 00:03 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-76-167-105-53.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:04 -!- sheena [~home@d154-20-226-28.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:27 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:32 -!- sheena [~home@d154-20-226-28.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:42 -!- kyknos [~kyknos@89.233.130.143] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:45 -!- sheena [~home@d154-20-226-28.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:46 <@_archels> paperbot: http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/NECO_a_00587 00:46 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/fb2998da70dff3533b290188199dce30.pdf 00:46 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:53 -!- sheena [~home@d154-20-226-28.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:53 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:54 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:54 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:54 -!- sheena [~home@d154-20-226-28.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:56 <@_archels> I don't like their premiss of simulating neural networks on general-purpose processors 00:56 <@_archels> "With the increasing importance of cluster-based computations and GPU acceleration, we cannot introduce a new simulation scheme without discussing parallelization possibilities." 00:57 <@_archels> maybe you should take that as central? maybe? 00:59 -!- sheena [~home@d154-20-226-28.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:59 <@_archels> I wonder what improvement you could obtain by using an FPGA instead of a GPU to evaluate coupled PDEs 01:00 <@_archels> at the same power budget, let's say 01:01 -!- pyotra [~asakharov@24.60.79.55] has quit [Quit: quit] 01:02 -!- sheena [~home@d154-20-226-28.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:04 < gene_hacker> well there's this:http://www.hpcwire.com/2014/05/05/brain-inspired-device-simulates-one-million-neurons/ 01:06 < gene_hacker> if mass produced, you could have a system with as many neurons as an octopus, for $200,000 01:08 <@_archels> yeah, those chips are pretty cool 01:08 <@_archels> but it might be a while till they hit retail 01:10 -!- sheena [~home@d154-20-226-28.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:11 < gene_hacker> you can already buy stuff like this:http://www.cognimem.com/products/chips-and-modules/CM1K-Chip/ 01:11 < gene_hacker> just doesn't have as many neurons 01:13 -!- sheena [~home@d154-20-226-28.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:14 <@_archels> the architecture of their neural net is hardwired though 01:14 <@_archels> for instance, you couldn't do reservoir computing with those chips 01:17 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:18 -!- sheena [~home@d154-20-226-28.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:22 < gene_hacker> it looks like it isn't completely hardwired: https://www.stanford.edu/group/brainsinsilicon/documents/BenjaminEtAlNeurogrid2014.pdf 01:22 -!- sheena [~home@d154-20-226-28.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:25 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:25 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:25 <@_archels> no, NeuroGrid is cool, I was referring to that CM1K chip 01:26 < gene_hacker> oh 01:26 < gene_hacker> yeah that's right 01:27 -!- sheena [~home@d154-20-226-28.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:34 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:35 -!- sheena 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< eudoxia> kanzure: here's an old cool thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkpIuD5io_k 08:48 < eudoxia> two of the interviewees are dead 08:48 < eudoxia> s/dead/cryopreserved 08:50 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:34 -!- AshleyWaffle_ [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:34 -!- Adifex is now known as Adifex|zzz 09:35 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:35 -!- AshleyWaffle_ is now known as AshleyWaffle 09:46 -!- Qfwfq_ [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:47 -!- Qfwfq_ [~Qfwfq@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Client Quit] 09:52 -!- nsh_ [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:55 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:03 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:04 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@8-12.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:09 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.137.73] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:12 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.137.73] has quit [Client Quit] 10:20 -!- Guest47374 [~abe@ip68-226-90-54.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:31 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:33 -!- Guest47374 [~abe@ip68-226-90-54.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:45 <@heath> atom text editor is open source now 10:45 < eudoxia> finally my text editor will be as fast, responsive and stable as my browser 10:48 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:56 < FourFire> Has anyone here ordered and received Soylent ? 10:59 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:01 < cluckj> you're suggesting someone in a channel obsessed with DIY is going to buy something for which the recipe is freely available? :P 11:07 < kanzure> .title http://plane.ardupilot.com/ 11:07 < FourFire> well, has anyone DIY'ed soylent? 11:07 < yoleaux> Fixed-wing aircraft UAV 11:07 < kanzure> .title http://plane.ardupilot.com/wiki/common-using-the-3dr-radio-for-telemetry-with-apm-and-px4/ 11:07 < yoleaux> common-Using the 3DR Radio for Telemetry with APM and PX4 11:08 < kanzure> radio firmware source code https://github.com/tridge/SiK 11:09 < kanzure> https://github.com/tridge/SiK/blob/master/Firmware/radio/packet.c 11:09 < kanzure> huh this looks an awful lot like the samba source code i was digging through a while back 11:10 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:10 < kanzure> hrm, nevermind. the style is different. 11:10 < cluckj> I haven't; too many carbs in it 11:12 < FourFire> cluckj, if you DIY you can change that... 11:13 < gradstudentbot> You know, I hear you make more money being a garbage man. 11:13 < kanzure> soylent is really good at marketing 11:13 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@8-12.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:16 < FourFire> well I'm evidence of that... 11:17 < cluckj> I like to eat real food tho 11:17 < xmj> doesnt soylent make you grow manboobs 11:17 < FourFire> yeah so do I 11:17 < xmj> ...due to some hormone in it? 11:17 < FourFire> xmj does it? 11:17 < cluckj> lol 11:17 < chris_99> haha 11:17 < FourFire> which version? 11:18 < FourFire> [citation needed] 11:18 < chris_99> why would they add anything that does that heh 11:18 < gradstudentbot> Argh, what do you mean you don't accept LaTeX submissions?? 11:18 < kanzure> chris_99: because nutrition is not that straightforward; any moron can make a mistake like that 11:19 < xmj> FourFire: iirc soy beans contain estrogen 11:19 < chris_99> oh i did not know that xmj interesting 11:19 < FourFire> I read this story about this girl who lived on chucken nuggets and chips for 17 years 11:19 < kanzure> minor amounts of estrogen aren't going to radically alter your female-axis traits 11:19 < FourFire> seemed mostly healthy for most of that time, but pale, eventually collapsed due to deficiencies 11:20 < xmj> chris_99: just take my half-knowledge as attempt for nerd-baiting and do some research 11:20 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-177-156.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:20 < FourFire> xmj afaik the only soy in soylent is an emulsifier, which they included so that they could keep the name 11:20 < chris_99> xmj heh ok 11:21 < xmj> lol 11:21 < xmj> chris_99: soylent manboobs has a ton of interesting links, actually 11:21 < chris_99> lol 11:21 < FourFire> but there's loads of DIY open source recipes made by hobbyists which have other things in it 11:21 < chris_99> i don't really see the appeal of eating sludgy stuff myself, but it seems an interesting idea 11:22 < kanzure> "DIY open source recipes" ugh 11:22 -!- kardan [~kardan@199.254.238.138] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:22 < cluckj> lol 11:22 < kanzure> "libre DIY open source recipes" 11:22 < xmj> myself i just noticed that this week has the potential to be steak week 11:22 < FourFire> there's a minority of the population which expect great benefit out of having quick, healthy cheap meals 11:22 < JayDugger> I eat a lot of spirulina, chlorella, etc. Not soylent, but green sludge. 11:22 < cluckj> "free/libre DIY open source recipes" 11:23 < kanzure> cluckj: i feel like i'm herding cats 11:23 < xmj> you can remove the DIY as it's implied in recipe. 11:23 < FourFire> ok, fine some of that sentence was redundant kanzure 11:23 < xmj> and recipes are open source per se, no? 11:23 < cluckj> probably free, and open source too 11:23 < JayDugger> Volunteer with your local rescue group to get a taste of cat herding. 11:24 < FourFire> JayDugger, how does that work for you? 11:24 < cluckj> try being an academic to get a taste of cat herding, am I right gradstudentbot? 11:24 < gradstudentbot> Oh that's interesting, do you want to write a paper together? 11:24 < cluckj> yes, yes I do 11:24 < JayDugger> Laser pointers make cat herding easy for a large fraction of cats. 11:24 < chris_99> heh 11:26 < xmj> then 'free food' should work in academia. 11:27 < cluckj> it only works really well on broke grad students 11:28 < FourFire> cluckj, yeah that's most of the minority I'm talking about 11:28 < chris_99> which includes most grad students 11:28 < FourFire> Young, nerdy bachelors 11:28 <@ParahSailin> soy beans do not contain estrogen 11:28 < cluckj> after the first few years of grad school you figure out how to live well on little money 11:29 < cluckj> so that excludes PhD candidates and ABDs 11:29 < cluckj> FourFire, and bachelorettes 11:29 < chris_99> cluckj, are you a PhD student then? 11:29 < cluckj> chris_99, I'm an ABD 11:29 < cluckj> (all but dissertation) 11:29 < chris_99> what's that? 11:30 < FourFire> the Hackerschool soylent recipe: http://www.cookingfor20.com/2013/06/18/hacker-school-soylent-recipe/ 11:31 < kanzure> that means he hasn't written a diissertation. isn't that obvious? 11:31 < kanzure> why do you all suck 11:31 < cluckj> lol 11:31 < cluckj> hey I explained myself :P 11:32 < chris_99> oh heh sorry 11:32 < kanzure> *dissertation 11:34 < cluckj> chris_99, I was sassing kanzure 11:37 < kanzure> sass is better than scss 11:38 < chris_99> whatcha doing as a subject cluckj if you don't mind me asking 11:38 < kanzure> studying you 11:38 < kanzure> watching you 11:38 < kanzure> normal creepster stuff 11:38 < chris_99> haha 11:38 < cluckj> ^^ 11:39 < gradstudentbot> Nope, that's not even remotely possible. 11:40 < FourFire> " why do you all suck" maybe you're just viewing us with suck coloured spectacles 11:41 < kanzure> yes, i'm sure there's a rational or good reason why you're so fucking vulnerable to shitty marketing 11:41 < FourFire> everyone's brain is broken 11:42 < FourFire> some are more broken in certain ways than others 11:42 < FourFire> some broken brains have found how to exploit some breakage 11:43 < kanzure> see? you already found a way where i'm not viewing you through "suck coloured spectacles". 11:44 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:46 < FourFire> your brain is broken too... 11:46 < cluckj> O_o 11:46 < cluckj> chris_99, 'amateur' science 11:46 < chris_99> oh cluckj 11:46 < chris_99> i remembr now 11:58 -!- marciogm [~marciogm@179.126.67.39] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:04 < fenn> mmm soylent 12:08 < kanzure> fenn, what about a place in detroit 12:08 < kanzure> i wonder if there's lots of equipment still floating around 12:08 < kanzure> or if all the good stuff is taken 12:10 < fenn> i'm sure "the good stuff" left thirty years ago 12:10 < fenn> so, detroit is basically canada 12:10 < fenn> canada with roads and 3 phase power 12:10 < kanzure> i believe canada has one of those 12:11 < fenn> i am really trying to reduce the amount of infrastructure required, not optimize my processes for having lots of space and mass 12:11 < fenn> anyway, detroit is interesting in its own right 12:11 < fenn> i hear people are growing their own food in public parks because there are no grocery stores 12:12 < kanzure> mumble mumble ribbon farms 12:13 < fenn> yes i've seen that on aerial maps but didn't know what it was called 12:13 < fenn> they can be much longer than in the image (higher aspect ratio) 12:13 < fenn> "Near Detroit, the ribbon farms were about 250 feet wide and up to three miles long." 12:14 < fenn> that could be cool, to have your own monorail 12:14 < fenn> and a boat 12:15 < kanzure> what about somewhere in china 12:16 < fenn> " 12:16 < fenn> Next, add about 75 g of brown sugar" what??? 12:17 < fenn> except for the gratuitous sugar, "hacker school soylent" is identical to what i used to eat for breakfast baked into an "oat waffle" 12:18 < fenn> and s/olive oil/butter/ because butter is better in all respects 12:18 < cluckj> lol 12:18 < fenn> and dutch cocoa loses out on a lot of the benefits of cocoa, it's basically been destroyed by the processing 12:19 < cluckj> so if you bake soylent, you get cookies? 12:19 < fenn> pretty much 12:19 < fenn> it's more like a dense savory cake 12:20 < gradstudentbot> My matlab crashed. 12:20 < fenn> once you cook it, it lasts for at least a week (in waffle form) 12:21 < fenn> also i used pea protein or whey 12:21 < fenn> or just powdered milk 12:21 < fenn> too much milk is too salty though 12:22 < gradstudentbot> Who the hell stole my pipette? 12:22 < xmj> does gradstudentbot have trigger words, or does he randomly say stuff? 12:22 < gradstudentbot> MOTHERFUCKER OUR PAPER JUST GOT LEAKED 12:23 < xmj> lol 12:23 < gradstudentbot> xmj that is for me to know, and you to figure out 12:24 < chris_99> haha 12:24 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:25 < catern> i'd eat soylent waffles 12:27 < fenn> the trick to good waffles is adding lots of butter to the waffle iron before you add the batter 12:28 < fenn> also the kind where you can flip it over helps, and with the big squares 12:28 < FourFire> so fenn, what you're saying is of you swap out all these ingredients ,and skip some, it's exactly the same as something you once used to eat? 12:28 < fenn> yes 12:28 < delinquentme> paperbot, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16919327 12:28 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1016%2Fj.biomaterials.2006.07.030 12:29 < kanzure> think of all the reduced shipping time 12:29 < kanzure> you'll save millions of years of waiting for shipments from shady chinese suppliers 12:30 < fenn> FourFire: i added molasses, which is brown sugar without the sugar, and i also added lecithin, and oat flour, and vegetable protein, so it's really the same thing 12:30 < fenn> i feel pretty comfortable recommending this to people 12:30 < fenn> i'm not sure about the flax 12:31 < fenn> also i'd add magnesium 12:31 < fenn> but it's a pretty good soylent 12:34 < fenn> if you cook it, put the emergen-c in your beverage instead 12:35 < fenn> green tea goes well with oat waffles 12:37 -!- marciogm [~marciogm@179.126.67.39] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:53 < kanzure> fenn, which dsps should i get? 12:54 < fenn> i don't know 12:54 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:54 < fenn> msp430 is pretty standard, but might be too low powered 12:55 < kanzure> also i need to find an appropriate devkit 12:55 < fenn> there were several TI reference implementations, why not just use one of those? 12:56 < kanzure> huh? 12:57 < fenn> the 430MB linux image was meant to run some beagleboard-like thing 12:59 -!- nsh_ is now known as nsh 12:59 < kanzure> and you're saying i should just use that image? 12:59 < kanzure> and not order a devkit thing? 13:01 < kanzure> "The words though, have now been followed up by actions... as RIA reports that Russia’s Black Sea Fleet "will get new submarines and next-generation surface ships", Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Tuesday, voicing his concern at the increasing maritime activity of the US Navy" 13:01 < fenn> no i'm saying you should look at whatever hardware system they had been developing for 13:01 < kanzure> man, why can't i have a fucking black sea fleet? 13:02 -!- HashNuke [uid12117@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fbqlxfzvgrwynmpc] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 13:02 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:03 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:04 -!- Viper168_ is now known as Viper168 13:09 < catern> is it okay to buy soylent.me soylent, or is that radically stupid? just want to test my ability to have such a monotonous diet before investing in lots of research 13:09 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:12 -!- nsh_ [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:13 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:13 -!- nsh_ is now known as nsh 13:21 < fenn> catern i'm currently fighting with diy.soylent.me trying to get my recipe in the system, but i'd suggest following the "hacker school" version for a month with local grocery store ingredients before investing a lot into optimizing it 13:22 < catern> fenn: but i'm lazy and don't want to have to buy the ingredients and make it myself 13:22 < catern> until I know it's worth my time 13:22 < fenn> what's your time worth? you're on IRC 13:23 < fenn> anyway it takes less time to mix some powders in a jar than it does to cook a normal meal 13:23 < kanzure> my time is worth lots 13:24 < kanzure> (some is currently grocery shopping for me, supposed to deliver it 20 minutes ago. ugh.) 13:24 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:24 -!- nsh_ [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:25 < fenn> so the future hasn't arrived in austin yet huh 13:25 < catern> fenn: yeah yeah, I should do it the right way and follow some recipe I can tailor to myself, but, 13:25 < fenn> catern: no, the point is you should see if you like this radical lifestyle change before throwing a lot of money at something you will potentially waste 13:25 < kanzure> fenn: what do you mean the future? 13:25 < catern> fenn: that's my point though 13:25 < fenn> automated grocery deliveries, the fridge that knows what you ate and what to restock etc 13:26 -!- nsh_ is now known as nsh 13:26 < kanzure> if i a person is delivering it, is it automated? 13:26 < catern> fenn: 85$ for 21 servings of soylent seems a lot better deal than investing a lot of time figuring out and making my own stuff 13:26 < catern> a better way to try out the radical lifestyle change 13:26 < fenn> kanzure: no, but ordering online is a value 13:26 < fenn> catern: oh i didnt realize there were such small orders available 13:26 < kanzure> i did order online 13:28 < fenn> kanzure: see there should be a tube about 100cm in diameter that goes under your house, and little cylindrical robots get pumped through and stop and discharge your groceries into a little box that beeps at you 13:28 < kanzure> sheena was very surprised by how many stores had pneumatic tubes around here 13:28 < kanzure> "you do your banking in pneumatic tubes?" 13:28 < catern> fenn: so can I assume that you don't have any problem with soylent.me soylent now that you know that? 13:28 < fenn> but having a UPS guy drive around and run up to your porch isn't such a terrible compromise for now 13:28 < catern> (as a first try) 13:28 < gradstudentbot> You can't guarantee that. 13:28 < kanzure> not a ups guy, just random http://taskrabbit.com/ person 13:29 < fenn> catern: i haven't been keeping up with soylent.me as much as i probably should, but the first version of the recipe seemed a lot better than most "fad diets" 13:29 < fenn> too much sugar but meh 13:29 < catern> oh ok 13:30 < fenn> i hear they are keeping the recipe secret? that seems like a really bad idea 13:31 < catern> proprietary = bad 13:31 < fenn> hopefully it doesn't have 400g of manganese :P 13:31 < fenn> "here have some battery paste" 13:32 < fenn> needs more vitamin C 13:32 < fenn> 90mg is not enough 13:33 < fenn> i wonder why they did that 13:33 < kanzure> i'm gonna buy http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Apex-Explorer-Plus-Microscope/dp/B001BS00KK/ any objections? 13:33 < kanzure> this is the one for eleitl 13:35 < fenn> looks ok 13:35 < fenn> this is kinda iffy "Before plugging the scope in, I checked the circuit board, and yes the 2 coils had detached. They were easily soldered back and all was fine. 13:36 < fenn> anyway a microscope is not an electronic item 13:36 < kanzure> "Unterbrunner St" 13:39 < fenn> catern: i heard soylent.me was being slow and you had to wait some number of months to get your shit 13:39 < fenn> is that still true? 13:39 < catern> fenn: it says on their website 10-12 weeks 13:39 < catern> but I don't mind waiting 13:39 < fenn> well that's dumb 13:39 < fenn> 12 weeks to get some oatmeal powder? 13:41 < fenn> it's not magic 13:41 < fenn> in fact the whole thing is pointless now that it's not open source 13:41 < fenn> go buy some "ensure" 13:41 < fenn> or "boost" 13:41 < kanzure> "open source" 13:41 < kanzure> "the whole thing is useless now that it's not using a bitcoin blockchain, man" 13:41 < fenn> "open source" means anyone can replicate it with the information provided 13:42 < fenn> that's not too much to ask for 13:42 < fenn> it also means you know what the fuck you're eating every day 13:42 < fenn> i thought that was mandatory 13:43 < fenn> god dammit 13:43 < kanzure> was soylent predicated around that 13:43 < fenn> yes 13:43 < kanzure> well, sorry, people suck 13:44 < kanzure> don't design systems around relying on them 13:44 < fenn> then some VC money got involved and it became "a startup" and everything went downhill from there as far as i can see 13:44 < kanzure> or, maybe it was already going downhill before that 13:45 < fenn> look, i set a pretty low bar for radical self experiments, but not knowing what you're eating is not good enough 13:45 < kanzure> i suspect that most people go around in life not knowing anything at all in a general haze, so the person who did solynet probably thought it was a normal state of affairs and shrugged it off 13:45 < fenn> no that's completely wrong. go back and look at the original blog post 13:46 < fenn> fuck i hate the new archive.org wayback machine 13:46 < kanzure> i never use the landing page, just type http://web.archive.org/web/*/address/* 13:47 < kanzure> so he wrote an okay post just once, and then wasn't able to maintain conceptual integrity 13:47 < kanzure> kinda boring story 13:47 < fenn> that just gets me to the calendar view 13:48 < fenn> it used to show you when the site changed with an asterisk next to the date, and it would just show a list of dates 13:48 < fenn> now you have to go hunting through a bunch of blank space with calendar entries for each year 13:48 < fenn> trying to find the bolded numbers 13:49 < fenn> you couldn't design a worse interface without flash 13:49 < fenn> you can't change years without javascript 13:50 < kanzure> for the list of files on a single page i usually just wget that page 13:50 < kanzure> because it's often 20,000 entries and only 50 shown per "page" (but it's all on the same page) 13:50 < kanzure> so by examining the file directly i can save on memory 13:50 < kanzure> plus not have to use a hypershit ui 13:50 < kanzure> so it's win-win 13:51 < fenn> The Quantified Diet 13:51 < fenn> It's wonderful to have full visibility and control over what's going in to my body. Besides making food allergies irrelevant, it's trivial to increase or reduce consumption of a particular substance by a precise amount. 13:52 < kanzure> so you're trying to prove to me that there is hope for reform from his side? 13:52 < fenn> follow up post, "what's in soylent" 13:53 <@ParahSailin> rhinoceros pubic hair 13:53 < fenn> then he lists sort of an amateur overview of nutritional requirements 13:53 <@ParahSailin> very good for horn! 13:55 < fenn> ParahSailin: it was just maltodextrin, whey, salt, vitamin pills, and olive oil (pretty much) 13:59 <@ParahSailin> the magic is in the trace ingredients from endangered animals 14:00 < fenn> go away ParahSailin 14:00 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:00 < kanzure> don't make our black arts bio person leave 14:01 < kanzure> he's like the only redeeming person we have around here 14:01 < fenn> ok here's an ingredient list http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0421/5993/files/Complete-Soylent-Nutrition-Facts.jpg?27548 14:01 -!- nmz787_i1 [~nmccorkx@192.55.54.42] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:02 < fenn> saved by the USDA (why isn't this the FDA's job again?) 14:02 <@ParahSailin> ew canola? 14:04 < fenn> wow 1 pound of dry powder per day, plus 60ml oil? that's more mass than i expected 14:05 < fenn> i think i'd skip the "oil blend" 14:06 < fenn> the fish oil would just make everything reek 14:06 < fenn> and the canola is stupid 14:06 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:09 -!- sheena [~home@d154-20-226-28.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:18 -!- kuldeepdhaka [~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:19 < jrayhawk> "Vitamin A (as palmitate)" what 14:20 < jrayhawk> i guess he meant retinol palmitate 14:22 < fenn> wtf why is there no entry for "blackstrap molasses" in the USDA database 14:23 -!- Guest47374 [~abe@ip68-226-90-54.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:25 < jrayhawk> ugh, folic acid 14:25 < kanzure> "obscure nutritional requirements of human body" probably belongs on the wiki 14:25 < jrayhawk> also ugh, grain protein 14:26 < fenn> jrayhawk: opinions on pea protein? 14:26 < jrayhawk> i haven't heard of anyone reacting to it, so it is at least probably not actively bad 14:26 < jrayhawk> I assume it's pretty low in BCAAs, though 14:27 < jrayhawk> oh, "rich in BCAAs" 14:27 < jrayhawk> huh 14:30 < fenn> peas have the following amino acid breakdown: leucine 7.2% isoleucine 4.0% valine 4.6% 14:30 < jrayhawk> http://www.swansonvitamins.com/now-foods-pea-protein-powder-2-lbs-pwdr has a specific and complete list 14:31 < fenn> oh cool thanks 14:33 < fenn> that is different from the USDA entry for peas 14:33 < jrayhawk> well, it is an isolate 14:34 < jrayhawk> "yellow peas" it says 14:35 < fenn> hm ok 14:36 < fenn> it doesn't match garbanzo beans either 14:36 < fenn> so it must be some specific protein they're capturing 14:37 -!- Guest47374 [~abe@ip68-226-90-54.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:37 < fenn> ah it matches "pink lentils" 14:39 < fenn> so, you'd expect "soylent" to use soy and lentil as the protein source 14:43 < fenn> wtf is this shit http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5574/1 14:44 < fenn> i know for a fact there is a thing called "blackstrap molasses" and it is very different from regular molasses 14:50 < fenn> http://www.brerrabbit.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/BRBlackstrap-nutrition.jpg vs http://www.brerrabbit.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/BRMild.jpg 14:53 < fenn> argh where's my fucking portable mass spectrometer 14:55 < kanzure> well, where's the last place you put it? 15:00 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:10 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:12 -!- _0bitcount [~big-byte@213.37.172.228.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:13 < delinquentme> Dangit .. whats the 4chan spelling of illuminati? 15:13 < delinquentme> ilermernate? 15:17 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@cpe-24-92-63-104.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:17 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@cpe-24-92-63-104.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:39 < FourFire> blackstrap is recooked sugar cane juice 15:40 < FourFire> like, secondary proccessed by product 15:43 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-60-231-177-134.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47 -!- _0bitcount [~big-byte@213.37.172.228.dyn.user.ono.com] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Leaving"] 15:48 -!- nsh_ [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:50 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:50 -!- nsh_ is now known as nsh 15:51 -!- marciogm [~marciogm@179.126.67.39] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:52 -!- entelechios [~elysium@mail.2bett.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:57 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@8-12.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:57 < fenn> delinquentme: what was the other handheld sensor you mentioned? not SCiO but possibly some other near ir spectrometer? 15:57 < delinquentme> tellspec 15:58 < delinquentme> thats the one that failed . scio apparently has been checked out by vcfirms *(FWIW) 16:00 < fenn> "failed" how? 16:01 < fenn> aside from being ugly 16:03 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@8-12.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:05 < fenn> delinquentme? 16:05 < delinquentme> IDk specifics 16:05 < delinquentme> just know that the details are online. 16:07 < fenn> .title http://www.ahurascientific.com/material-verification/products/truscan/index.php 16:07 < yoleaux> Rugged Hand Held Raman Spectrometer for Material Testing 16:08 < nmz787_i1> NIR spec is boring 16:08 < nmz787_i1> its so lame they switched from Raman 16:08 < nmz787_i1> guess their 20/30 year spectroscopy expert wasn't up to the challenge 16:08 < nmz787_i1> even ben krasnow did raman with an SLR DIY style 16:08 < kanzure> hah 16:10 < kanzure> oh yeah, i guess spectroscopy stuff is technically supposed to be easier than plugging in 40 DSPs in parallel 16:11 < fenn> nmz787_i1: raman is just a laser, a beam splitter, a filter, and a grating? 16:14 < fenn> 300 mW or lower, why is that "handheld" thing so huge 16:16 <@ParahSailin> paperbot: http://iopscience.iop.org/0004-637X/764/2/167/article 16:16 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1088%2F0004-637X%2F764%2F2%2F167 16:18 < fenn> woah it has a big collector mirror on the front 16:20 < gradstudentbot> There's no way to know for sure. 16:24 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:32 < fenn> nmz787_i1: cool beans, i watched ben krasnow's video 16:32 < fenn> i wonder why he used a HeNe laser and notch filter instead of just an IR laser and IR filter 16:33 < fenn> that really ought to be a text post with photos, not a video 16:34 -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.39 - www.nbs-irc.net -] 16:39 < fenn> "TellSpec started off with laser-based Raman spectroscopy (it’s described in its Indiegogo campaign), and switched to a DLP-based sensor when it partnered with Texas Instruments in March." 16:39 < kanzure> so... sellouts? or cool excuse to use DLP. 16:39 < fenn> DLP what? what? 16:39 < kanzure> from the quote? 16:40 < fenn> why can't we just call things what they are 16:40 < fenn> not ranting at you, just sick of these fucking popular science articles that assume we are too stupid to know the difference between NIR and raman spectroscopy 16:50 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@8-12.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:51 -!- nmz787_i1 [~nmccorkx@192.55.54.42] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:54 -!- nmz787_i [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-qukgpspsmysngpuv] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:54 < fenn> hyperspectral imaging or chemical imaging, in which thousands of Raman spectra are acquired from all over the field of view. The data can then be used to generate images showing the location and amount of different components. Taking the cell culture example, a hyperspectral image could show the distribution of cholesterol, as well as proteins, nucleic acids, and fatty acids. 16:54 < fenn> Raman is not the same as hyperspectral, but still, i want to shoot lasers from my eyes 16:56 < kanzure> it penetrates cell wall? 16:56 < kanzure> or, erm 16:56 < kanzure> i have not seen that sort of cellular protein imaging before 16:57 < kanzure> mostly just "mix it in something that spins, then take the compound and blast photons at it" 16:59 < fenn> there's not any chemical applied, it's just shooting a laser at the cell and watching the light coming off it 17:00 < fenn> you have to scan the image with a slit/grating to get a hyperspectral image 17:00 < kanzure> .g hyperspectral image 17:00 < yoleaux> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperspectral_imaging 17:00 < fenn> "just" a spectral image is pretty cool tho 17:01 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@8-12.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:02 < fenn> "If the scanner detects a large number of fairly narrow frequency bands, it is possible to identify objects even if they are only captured in a handful of pixels." 17:04 < fenn> Newer full motion video spectral imaging systems can simultaneously captures and processes all three dimensions of a spectral cube at video rates. 17:09 < fenn> imagine looking around and even ordinary rocks look special http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HSI_LWIR_stones.png 17:09 < kanzure> but they do look special, thanks to the power of stimulants and hallucinogens 17:10 < nmz787_i> fenn: notch filter or dropoff (or cliff, I think) filter is needed... basically the cutoff needs to be super steep or you'll have less usable data 17:10 < fenn> so? i mean, data is better than no data 17:10 < fenn> less data is better than no data 17:10 < nmz787_i> maybe, but I think the usable data drops off significantly the further from the laser wavelength you are 17:11 < fenn> also i think you can use multiple lasers and filters (red laser/red filter and ir laser/ir filter) to reconstruct the wavenumber spectrum 17:11 < nmz787_i> since most raman interaction is quite weak, its not likely to shift the laser wavelength too much 17:11 < nmz787_i> you can use any laser for input, I believe, but samples don't always respond the same to diff inputs 17:12 < nmz787_i> and there are things like autofluorescense to deal with 17:12 < fenn> i know all this 17:12 < nmz787_i> kanzure: yes photons can make it past the cell... close your eyes and blink a flashlight in front of your face ;) 17:13 < kanzure> i corrected myself 17:13 < nmz787_i> kanzure: realizing what layer they interact with is a diff issue 17:13 < kanzure> well we have lots of diff algorithms 17:13 < fenn> what layer? 17:14 < fenn> our eyes are made of cells 17:14 < fenn> now i'm confused 17:15 < nmz787_i> one way to get around/figure that out is SORS (spatially offset raman spectroscopy) 17:15 < nmz787_i> which is like playing pool (billiards) with photons 17:16 < fenn> please don't make analogies like that 17:16 < nmz787_i> you input at an angle, and watch at the recipcrocal (the same angle relative to perpendicular) 17:16 < nmz787_i> (reciprocal might be the wrong word) 17:16 < fenn> so the idea is that only raman photons will be emitted from that angle? 17:16 < nmz787_i> no, you'll get laser too 17:17 < nmz787_i> but the idea is you control at what depth bounced photons came from 17:18 < nmz787_i> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stfc.ac.uk%2Fclf%2Fresources%2FPDF%2Far06-07_s5_noninvasvedetection.pdf&ei=lV9pU_GvCYHpoATZxIGoAQ&usg=AFQjCNElkbyhR72QifBMBvRsDjBxFUH6WQ&sig2=-VmOf8WOjshNqEfghwZUUg&bvm=bv.66111022,d.cGU 17:18 < nmz787_i> http://www.stfc.ac.uk/clf/resources/PDF/ar06-07_s5_noninvasvedetection.pdf 17:18 < nmz787_i> sorry, copy paste crap removal not turned on here 17:18 < nmz787_i> oh 17:18 < nmz787_i> that paper sucks 17:19 < nmz787_i> hold on 17:19 < fenn> i am reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatially_Offset_Raman_Spectroscopy 17:19 < nmz787_i> i just sent this out a few days ago 17:20 < fenn> oh so you just use the reflected light from beneath the packaging surface 17:20 < fenn> given a 2d spectrum of depth and IR emission, use some other value of depth 17:21 < nmz787_i> http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/ac062223z 17:21 < kanzure> .title 17:21 < yoleaux> An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie 17:21 < kanzure> nice 17:21 < fenn> shouldn't paperbot get that 17:21 < nmz787_i> i believe that paper is open 17:21 < kanzure> paperbot: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/ac062223z 17:21 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/1d602c89e3d710a5250cabd853dcdc29.pdf 17:22 < kanzure> "open" or not, i don't trust publishers anymore. i just want the exact link to a working pdf, with nothing in between. 17:23 < nmz787_i> so wxPython really sucks in terms of the pre-packaged widgets they offer 17:24 < fenn> what are you using wxpython for? 17:24 < nmz787_i> HTML/CSS/JS would be a lot faster to get functional things, though that cefpython lib was a bit too RAM heavy compared to wxpython (80MB vs like 28MB) 17:25 < fenn> because chrome is a ram hog 17:25 < fenn> i dont get why anyone would tether themselves to a specific rendering engine 17:25 < kanzure> pyjamas-desktop can do mshtml/trident instead of webkit/blink 17:26 < fenn> huh pyjamas isn't in ubuntu? 17:26 < kanzure> kinda sorted abandoned/forgotten 17:26 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-53-116-163.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:27 < fenn> only 2 years ago 17:27 < kanzure> the tides were turning earlier 17:27 < kanzure> with the olpc stuff and sugar something 17:27 < fenn> i dont know what that means 17:28 < fenn> gtk now uses CSS so i guess it's using something like an html renderer 17:28 < kanzure> one of the main reasons pyjamas was getting any attention was one laptop per child 17:30 < fenn> There are now 2 forks of the Pyjamas Project. One maintained by the new pyjs team at pyjs.org And another maintained by Luke Leighton at pyj.be 17:30 < kanzure> good ol' lkcl 17:30 < kanzure> england's phantom steam engine 17:31 < fenn> well anyway i think there's a difference between a GUI framework that renders to html/css/js and a general purpose python-to-js translator 17:31 < eudoxia> so what happened to the css on diyhpl.us 17:31 < kanzure> fuck css 17:31 < kanzure> is what happened 17:32 < eudoxia> :/ 17:32 < nmz787_i> i tried using the pyjs.pyjamas but it was not very easy to get up and running out of the box 17:32 < kanzure> why's that bad? 17:32 < kanzure> fenn: there's also widget stuff though, see pyjamas-desktop (which is a bit different from pyjamas) 17:32 < eudoxia> i just think it could look, you know, better 17:32 < kanzure> c2.com still looks old school and fine 17:33 < nmz787_i> but wxpython listctrl (a list of things) doesn't allow simple things like disabling a row... or in 'REPORT' mode, i.e. rows with columns... you can't address individual cells easily... or add arbitrary other widgets like buttons to a cell 17:34 < fenn> wxpython was always terrible because wxwidgets was always terrible 17:35 < fenn> the only thing it has going for it is "it also runs on windows!" 17:35 < kanzure> well it's not like anyone should use qt 17:35 < fenn> if interoperability is your goal then a web interface should be your priority 17:35 < nmz787_i> get shit done is my (our) goal 17:36 < fenn> then use a CLI 17:36 < nmz787_i> that is not helpful in this case 17:36 < fenn> then use a framebuffer :P 17:37 < kanzure> get shit done only produces shit 17:37 < fenn> but worse is better 17:37 < nmz787_i> i'll prob end up extending their wxGrid widget, which is basically an excel-like table with cells 17:37 < kanzure> "worse is better" is the reason why fenn is going to die young 17:37 < fenn> it's true 17:37 < nmz787_i> 'shit' here is a loose term, so 'shit' produced is fine 17:37 < nmz787_i> "that's some gooood shit!" 17:37 < fenn> that mindset is shit 17:38 < kanzure> i doubt he has been exposed to the reasons why "worse is better" is worse 17:38 < fenn> Error: double negative value limit exceeded 17:39 < kanzure> i'm suggesting "worse is better" may be all he is aware of 17:39 < kanzure> it's not like lots of people are arguing the opposite these days 17:39 * fenn hides under his lisp blankie 17:39 < fenn> make it go away! 17:40 < kanzure> .g site:c2.com worse is better 17:40 < yoleaux> http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WorseIsBetter 17:40 < nmz787_i> nah i just didn't have time to test qt too, and decided performance (RAM and load time) gains were better than bloated chrome 17:40 < kanzure> first half of this page is crap 17:41 < fenn> okay "YAGNI" is not "worse is better" 17:41 < kanzure> second half too 17:41 < eudoxia> "just live with shit because the alternative is building a Connection Machine and having no friends" 17:41 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better 17:42 < kanzure> "Gabriel later answered his earlier essay with one titled Worse Is Better Is Worse[3] under the pseudonym "Nickieben Bourbaki" (an allusion to Nicolas Bourbaki)." 17:42 < fenn> go out for pizza or eat your sprouts alone 17:42 < kanzure> http://dreamsongs.com/Files/worse-is-worse.pdf 17:43 < fenn> i actually forgot the phrase originally came from the lisp/c fight 17:43 < kanzure> sorta fitting, right? 17:43 < nmz787_i> i guess worse is better in the sense of " Software that is limited, but simple to use" is true here 17:43 < nmz787_i> except that the non-limited software also exists 17:44 < nmz787_i> so it isn't really worse, its just another option if you're a dumber user... or if your job isn't being a wizard with that tool 17:45 < fenn> "it's better to be simple than correct" is where the "worse" comes in 17:45 < fenn> software should reject cases it is known not to work well on 17:46 < kanzure> i often hear "worse is better" as an economic argument to justify writing piles of shit 17:46 < fenn> yeah i tend to think of it as the ruby hacker mentality 17:46 < fenn> or an explanation why people still use PHP 17:47 < fenn> anyone still using C knows why they need it 17:48 < fenn> " it complains about the lack of a journaling file system, and states that a graphical user interface would be an oxymoron for Unix, but these features are now standard. A large proportion of the complaints are about anomalies in the command line interface. It predates the rise of Linux, and thus concerns the several commercial versions of Unix then available" 17:49 < kanzure> "anomalies in the command line interface" 17:49 < fenn> something about how man pages are weird 17:50 < fenn> "INFO OR DIE TRYING" 17:50 < fenn> this is why there are still no man pages for some GNU tools? seriously? 17:50 < eudoxia> i wonder why docs are split into man pages and that info thing i never use 17:51 < kanzure> "The dichotomy that might exist is that of right-thing design 17:51 < kanzure> versus no design. This is very different." 17:51 < fenn> i like how "help" the bash builtin is totally useless for a newbie 17:51 < fenn> "here are some advanced commands you will never use and their flags" 17:53 < kanzure> "Lisp is used by weirdos who do weird science." 17:53 < fenn> cd [-L|[-P [-e]]] [dir] 17:53 < fenn> and no further explanation 17:53 < eudoxia> well at least i do "science" 17:55 < kanzure> "These arguments put the entire argument of worse is better into shadowy light. But the real quarrel with the paper I have is about what it teaches people. The paper states that a good strategy to adopt when trying to make things better is this: '... it is undesirable to go for the right thing first; better to get half of the right thing available so it spreads like a virus. once people are hooked, take the time to improve it to 90% of the ... 17:55 < kanzure> ... right thing.' This adice is corrosive. It warps the minds of youth. It is never a good idea to intentionally aim for anything less than the best, though one might have to compromise in order to succeed." 17:55 < kanzure> (and then the paper ends prematurely) 17:55 < fenn> "release early, release often" is good and all, but far too often we never get to a finished product 17:56 < fenn> how is that prematurely? 17:56 < kanzure> rewrites in the future are extremely costly 17:56 < kanzure> well, because it doesn't elaborate on anything 17:56 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:56 < kanzure> and ostensibly, those comments are the point of the paper 17:57 < kanzure> so why would it just end right there 17:57 < fenn> because he was done? 17:58 < kanzure> i don't think that's enough to convince anyone 17:58 * fenn wonders if Hurd boots yet 17:58 < kanzure> "It is never a good idea [because I say so]" 17:59 < eudoxia> i like that hurd is a server based thingee 17:59 < eudoxia> it's nice for some reason 17:59 < kanzure> whereas other non-programmer types can say, "Well, if we didn't release a pile of crap, we would have never made any money. Therefore, making terrible things is morally justifiable." 18:00 < fenn> no comment 18:00 < kanzure> am i getting it wrong? 18:00 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:00 < fenn> that's the "worse is better" argument in a nutshell 18:01 -!- HEx2 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:01 < kanzure> the problem with that argument is that it's extremely simple to formulate on your own 18:01 < kanzure> so i think lots of people spontaneously think it up 18:01 < kanzure> as a form of intuition or something 18:01 < fenn> it's also lazy, unethical, and shits on your users 18:01 < fenn> and generally makes the world a worse place 18:02 < fenn> unfortunately this doesn't make it false 18:02 < kanzure> well, the "we'll fix it later" thing is demonstrably false 18:03 < fenn> interesting, gnu uses ikiwiki for their project pages 18:05 < nmz787_i> s/morally/economically/ I think you mean kanzure 18:06 < kanzure> hah i wish 18:06 < fenn> the argument isn't usually about what is economically justifiable though 18:06 < fenn> i mean, being a pirate and murdering children is economically justifiable 18:07 < kanzure> there's good money in piracy 18:07 < fenn> and ponzi schemes, and planned obsolescence, and putting melamine in your dog food 18:08 < fenn> Host blubber.bddebian.com blubber 18:09 < fenn> blubber clubber flubber gnubber goober grubber snubber 18:09 < kanzure> alternate universe seven dwarves? 18:09 < fenn> you will be expected to remember which host you are assigned. good luck! 18:10 < fenn> so, "Hurd is a multiserver microkernel" and i guess this means something 18:11 < fenn> Mach is particularly well suited for SMP and network cluster techniques. Thread support is provided at the kernel level, and the kernel itself takes advantage of that. Network transparency at the IPC level makes resources of the system available across machine boundaries 18:22 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:22 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:27 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:29 < fenn> hm. "We couldn't find any repositories matching 'lkcl'" 18:30 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:35 < fenn> http://repos.io/user/github/lkcl/ https://github.com/lkcl/ something doesn't sit right 18:36 < fenn> his last repo was 2011? 18:41 < fenn> i guess he has a real job, but it's weird to just delete your github account but leave the link prominently on your homepage 18:45 < kanzure> he's had "real jobs" for quite a while now 18:48 < FourFire> kanzure, as opposed to? 18:49 < kanzure> he said it first 18:49 < kanzure> ask him 18:50 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-76-167-105-53.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:54 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-82-91-84.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:56 <@heath> anyone making money from alt currencies yet? 18:56 <@heath> making decent* money 18:56 -!- drewbot_ [~cinch@ec2-54-83-120-85.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56 < kanzure> sorta 19:00 < fenn> FourFire: he's "Head of IT at Greater China of London" which implies a lot of guys in suits breathing down your neck 24/7 19:01 < FourFire> at least he doesn't need to exercise "synergy" 19:04 < fenn> syzygy is the new xyzzy 19:05 -!- kyknos [~kyknos@89.233.130.143] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:05 < kanzure> heath: i wrote some software to mine in the first 2-5 minutes of each one's existence 19:06 < kanzure> heath: by git cloning, running a build, and deploying to ec2 instances 19:09 <@heath> i don't understand how you would have discovered a new currency within the first 2 minutes of its public existence :) 19:09 <@heath> and wired your system to mine within those first two minutes 19:09 <@heath> s/two/five 19:10 <@heath> but that's a pretty sweet idea 19:10 < kanzure> because i just have something monitoring bitcointalk.org 19:10 < kanzure> they are all the same software, with very minor alterations 19:11 < kanzure> build it once, and dump in the modified files, and you can build the new thing much faster 19:11 < kanzure> it's all just a fork of bitcoin.git or litecoin.git etc 19:11 < kanzure> it's really quite boring 19:12 < eudoxia> that's just classic kanzure 19:13 < kanzure> the problem is that the costs on ec2 are still going up because everyone points their miners at the new altcoins 19:13 < kanzure> so it's not as cheap as it once was 19:13 < kanzure> the more miners show up within the first few minutes, the more competing alternate blockchains exist for that currency 19:14 < kanzure> plus, the more quickly the difficulty shoots up 19:14 < kanzure> but at the same time, i can't exactly show up and crush the blockchain too quickly, because if i end up with 95% of the coins, then nobody is around to be using it 19:14 < kanzure> it is a weird balance 19:15 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:26 -!- nmz787_i [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-qukgpspsmysngpuv] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:29 < fenn> why alternate blockchain? just run the existing blockchain 19:29 < fenn> i mean there's no reason to make a new blockchain except to try to double spend 19:30 < eudoxia> i think he means the forks that happen 19:31 < kanzure> when you have a bunch of miners trying to mine the same new altcoin, they don't all have the same blockchain 19:31 < kanzure> so if some of the nodes create a cluster amongst each other, they might think they have the correct chain of blocks 19:31 < kanzure> when in fact they do not 19:31 -!- pads [~not@100.43.114.90] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:32 -!- pads is now known as Guest78867 19:32 < fenn> because they aren't communicating with other nodes? shouldn't that get resolved eventually? (i guess it gets resolved by killing that chain) 19:32 < kanzure> yes, eventually.. but during the first few minutes of existence, stuff like that is probelmatic and misleading to users. 19:32 -!- padz [~not@100.43.114.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:32 < kanzure> *problematic 19:33 < fenn> big bang theory stuff 19:33 < fenn> yo dawg check out my superluminal miner 19:34 < kanzure> did i miss something 19:35 < fenn> no 19:35 -!- pad2 [~not@100.43.114.90] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:36 -!- nsh_ [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:37 -!- nsh [~nsh@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:37 -!- Guest78867 [~not@100.43.114.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:38 < fenn> oh. a raman shift is just a redshift or a blueshift due to the vibration of the atom 19:38 < fenn> why the hell didn't they just say that 19:45 < delinquentme> ^ knowledge isn't evenly distributed 19:45 < eudoxia> aliases are useful 19:46 < eudoxia> like when you're talking to someone about something and they tell you what it's called and you're like "oh that's the term" 19:46 < kanzure> delinquentme: no, it's just people fucking with other people, and not getting called out on it 19:46 < eudoxia> "cool now i can type less" 19:47 < fenn> ok but this is just too much: The Raman effect occurs when light impinges on a molecule and interacts with the electron cloud and the bonds of that molecule. For the spontaneous Raman effect, which is a form of light scattering, a photon excites the molecule from the ground state to a virtual energy state. When the molecule relaxes it emits a photon and it returns to a different rotational or 19:47 < fenn> vibrational state. 19:48 < fenn> he difference in energy between the original state and this new state leads to a shift in the emitted photon's frequency away from the excitation wavelength. The Raman effect, which is a light scattering phenomenon, should not be confused with absorption (as with fluorescence) where the molecule is excited to a discrete (not virtual) energy level. 19:49 < fenn> maybe i am dumb but that is just hard to understand 19:49 < fenn> "virtual energy state"?? 19:52 < fenn> this is why we should never use "light is a particle" 19:52 < fenn> then people say things like "inelastic scattering" 19:54 < nsh_> heh, just came up from a google search: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/security/Towards%20Provably%20Secure%20Software%20Attestation.pdf 19:54 < nsh_> via: http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?client=ubuntu-browser&espv=2&es_sm=94&um=1&ie=UTF-8&lr=&cites=10161375336835608577 19:57 < fenn> .title http://spie.org/x34680.xml 19:57 < yoleaux> Mini-handheld Raman TRicorder-0TM at DSS: SPIE 19:57 < fenn> it still seems really big and heavy to me 19:58 < fenn> 110x190x54mm3, weighing a "mere" 2 lbs 20:08 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@192.55.54.36] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:15 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-53-116-163.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:18 < fenn> i think i'd want something that acted as a usb camera, probably in a "usb key" form factor so you can attach it to a phone with a OTG cable 20:19 < fenn> i guess phones don't normally have usb host turned on? this makes me sad 20:21 -!- pad2 [~not@100.43.114.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:21 -!- eridu [~eridu@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:24 -!- jrayhawk [~jrayhawk@nursie.omgwallhack.org] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:24 -!- jrayhawk [~jrayhawk@nursie.omgwallhack.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:26 -!- kardan [~kardan@199.254.238.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:28 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:31 -!- pyotra [~asakharov@24.60.79.55] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:33 -!- padz [~not@100.43.114.90] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:40 < kanzure> metalbeard isn't going to be happy when he hears about this 20:41 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@192.55.54.36] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:42 -!- Zhwazi [~Zhwazi@copyfree/contributor/Zhwazi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:42 -!- eridu [~eridu@gateway/tor-sasl/eridu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:43 -!- Zhwazi [~Zhwazi@copyfree/contributor/Zhwazi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:44 <@ParahSailin> i just learned that i work for the people who make these https://us.vwr.com/store/catalog/product.jsp?catalog_number=80081-194 20:44 < kanzure> http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131229133636/lego/images/thumb/2/21/70807-metalbeard-2.jpg/1000px-70807-metalbeard-2.jpg 20:44 < kanzure> ParahSailin: nice market focus 20:44 -!- nmz787_i [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-mlpoopeiqpfrtskr] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:46 <@ParahSailin> its quite the revenue stream 20:46 < kanzure> why? 20:46 < fenn> MetalBeard and his pirate crew infiltrated the Octan Tower. His fellow crew members were taken prisoner for the Think Tank, but MetalBeard managed to survive and retreat, though at the cost of being "bricked" by Lord Business, despite coming up "with every conceivable plan imaginable". He soon leaves upon hearing the construction worker has no creative skill, saying he's "leaving on a lost cause." 20:46 -!- HashNuke [uid12117@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xtvbwyycjowvmysa] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:46 <@ParahSailin> because every lab ive been in has these things 20:48 < fenn> ParahSailin: are those just straws cut at an angle? 20:48 < jrayhawk> http://rayhawk.livejournal.com/439433.html 20:48 <@ParahSailin> fenn: no, its alien technology 20:48 < kanzure> .title 20:48 < yoleaux> rayhawk: The LEGO Movie 20:49 < kanzure> oh is mike responsible? 20:49 < kanzure> i should have expected a rayhawk conspiracy 20:49 < jrayhawk> in some ways 20:49 < jrayhawk> there are a lot of subtle references in place 20:51 < kanzure> "But looking again, the really suspicious similarity is between the Von Bragstein Boiler-Mech and Metalbeard. That one's tougher to handwave away, but even there I can't really know whether it's meant as an homage or what." 20:51 < kanzure> http://pics.livejournal.com/rayhawk/pic/000yfz6k/s640x480.jpg 20:52 < fenn> hey big daddy 20:52 < fenn> waargh 20:53 < fenn> omg don't google that 20:54 < gradstudentbot> So, there's this really good conference in Spain that I want to attend. 20:55 < fenn> i meant http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/WAAAGH! 20:58 < fenn> "a WAAAGH! is a cross between a holy crusade and a pub crawl, with a bit of genocide thrown in for good measure." 21:01 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:03 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:04 < kanzure> "This page needs content. You can help by adding a sentence or a photo" 21:05 < kanzure> whoops 21:05 < kanzure> metalbeard is a pretty good name 21:05 < kanzure> even better than cyberbeard 21:05 < fenn> metalbeard prime 21:06 < kanzure> dread pirate metalbeard 21:07 < kanzure> metalbeard.org is available 21:07 < jrayhawk> Mike unwittingly concepted LEGO Universe, and the LEGO Movie poached a lot of folks from Universe when it shut down 21:07 < fenn> that brikwars painting reminds me of http://onastick.net/sitz/images/ 21:08 < fenn> and various other 40k crap 21:08 < jrayhawk> http://mikerayhawk.com/lu_inspiration.htm 21:10 < gradstudentbot> I don't know whether I am Turing dreaming that I am a machine, or a machine dreaming that I am Turing! 21:16 -!- pyotra [~asakharov@24.60.79.55] has quit [Quit: quit] 21:18 < fenn> http://media.desura.com/cache/images/groups/1/1/84/thumb_940x3000/1187025029_Suffer_Not_the_Furry_to_Live_Desu.jpg 21:18 -!- Jaakko910 [~Jaakko@cpc13-newc15-2-0-cust64.16-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:18 -!- Jaakko910 [~Jaakko@cpc13-newc15-2-0-cust64.16-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:21 < kanzure> isn't that supposed to be fury 21:22 < jrayhawk> suffer not nick fury to live 21:27 < fenn> what happened to the lego universe code? 21:36 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@36.90-149-182.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:37 < kanzure> got lost in an ironic cargo container when shipped to the united states 21:37 < fenn> pecked to death by the giant rubber ducky? 21:37 < kanzure> corporate giant rubber ducky 21:38 < fenn> i mean, blender is pretty good, and basically the same thing happened right? 21:38 < fenn> there's gotta be so much dead code lying around 21:38 < gradstudentbot> Well, it looks better if you see it through a UV scope. 21:39 < fenn> i still don't get that UV scope comment 21:39 < kanzure> as opposed to not shooting ultraviolet at it 21:42 < kanzure> http://www.microscopyu.com/articles/fluorescence/filtercubes/ultraviolet/uv2a/images/uv2aspecimensfigure2.jpg 21:42 < kanzure> http://www.rsc.org/ej/PP/2008/b808776h/b808776h-f1.gif 21:42 < fenn> well it looks better if you have hyperspectral vision 21:42 < jrayhawk> \ 21:42 < jrayhawk> fffff 21:43 < kanzure> .title http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2008/pp/b808776h 21:43 < yoleaux> In vivo nonlinear spectral imaging microscopy of visible and ultraviolet irradiated hairless mouse skin tissues 21:43 < fenn> "purple" is not a scientific word 21:43 < kanzure> purplexing 21:43 < kanzure> ah shit 21:44 < fenn> so, optical coherence tomography is pretty sweet 21:44 < fenn> could you made a 3d model of someone's brain in IR? 21:45 < fenn> at least the outer layers 21:46 < fenn> hm only 1-2mm 21:47 < fenn> seems like that would be wavelength-dependent 21:50 < fenn> Researchers have used OCT to produce detailed images of mice brains, through a "window" made of zirconia that has been modified to be transparent and implanted in the skull. 21:50 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:50 < kanzure> i should get a window. 21:50 < fenn> paperbot: http://www.nanomedjournal.com/article/S1549-9634(13)00361-4/abstract 21:50 < fenn> .title 21:50 < yoleaux> Elsevier 21:50 < paperbot> TypeError: unicode() argument 2 must be string, not None (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/models.py", line 825, in text) 21:51 < fenn> bah 21:51 < kanzure> hahah 21:51 < kanzure> so much fail 21:51 < fenn> To use this website, your browser must accept cookies. 21:51 < fenn> when did cookies become such a big deal 21:51 < fenn> every fucking website feels the need to tell me about its cookies now 21:52 < kanzure> when the uk made a law about this 21:52 < kanzure> nsh_: i blame you 21:52 < fenn> can't they look at my IP 21:52 < nmz787_i> I feel like there's some rap song about a girl's 'cookies' 21:53 < fenn> "graphical abstract" http://download.journals.elsevierhealth.com/images/journalimages/1549-9634/PIIS1549963413003614.fx1.lrg.jpg 21:53 < fenn> i like the concept of a graphical abstract 21:54 < fenn> if every paper were required to have a graphical abstract, every lab would have a resident graphic artist, and everyone would be better off 21:55 < kanzure> just hire mike 21:55 < kanzure> plus it will end up looking like lego so everyone wins 21:55 < fenn> sure but 90% of science papers have awful diagrams 21:56 < fenn> and there's a general lack of scientifically accurate art 21:59 < kanzure> hm i see what you mean https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1920&bih=943&q=scienc 21:59 < gradstudentbot> Sigh, my invasive fruit flies won’t have sex for me. 21:59 < nmz787_i> LOL 22:00 < kanzure> http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/072/6/4/i_love_science_poster_by_paulsizer-d5xweux.jpg 22:01 < kanzure> why is he red? 22:01 < fenn> well at least an anatomically accurate DNA molecule got on the first page 22:01 < fenn> there's so many shit DNA images out there 22:01 < kanzure> and what the hell fetish is this (nsfw) https://62e528761d0685343e1c-f3d1b99a743ffa4142d9d7f1978d9686.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/files/764/width668/aapone-20090623000188779203-britain-ent-art-science-von_hagens-bodyworld-original.jpg 22:01 -!- entelechios [~elysium@mail.2bett.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:02 < kanzure> this one is an image of some guy next to a racist robot http://wearscience.com/img300/robot.png 22:03 < fenn> "why is he red" it's a communist propaganda thing 22:03 < kanzure> and i hate all this crap http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-HujPLsymse8/UCZpOEKKzdI/AAAAAAAAAnQ/Q5F6K4RPCtA/s1600/Scientists+Prove+DNA+Can+Be+Reprogrammed+by+Words+and+Frequencies.jpg 22:04 < fenn> it's not a robot it's a waldo 22:06 < kanzure> the problem is there's so much of it http://d1jqu7g1y74ds1.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/consciousness.jpg http://huuhaablog.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/cosmic-consciousness.jpg http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img801/6778/o1kd.png http://www.learning-mind.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/pineal-gland-third-eye.jpg http://goldenalmachcreation.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Planetary-peace-cosmic-consciousness-spiritual-science.jpg 22:06 < kanzure> why do people keep coming up with this crap 22:06 < fenn> what dna looks like on tv: http://watchdog.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2013/11/shutterstock_61775431.jpg 22:07 < kanzure> what it really looks like: http://rsbweb.nih.gov/ij/docs/examples/dna-contours/original.jpg 22:09 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:09 < fenn> i was trying to find something like this but with all the molecules filled out https://chemistry.osu.edu/~herbert/images/DNA_orbs.gif 22:10 < nmz787_i> fenn can't you just use pymol? 22:10 < kanzure> well, you can find the ribbon models 22:10 < fenn> argh chrome you pig 22:10 < kanzure> how about this one 22:10 < kanzure> http://www.uam.es/gruposinv/cmpts03/images/web/siesta.jpg 22:11 < kanzure> i forget the name of this visualization technique 22:11 < kanzure> but it was mentioned in the logs about 3 years ago 22:11 < nmz787_i> space-fill or electron-cloud or something? 22:11 < kanzure> electronic potenital map 22:11 < kanzure> electronic potential map 22:12 < fenn> HOMO LUMO something something 22:12 < kanzure> http://www.chem.umn.edu/netstep/2001/january/10york.jpg 22:14 < fenn> yeah, that looks about right 22:14 < fenn> i don't get why they always render isosurfaces instead of translucent voxels 22:15 < nmz787_i> that seems interesting 22:17 -!- helleshin [~talinck@66-161-138-110.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:18 < kanzure> fenn: like this? http://www.opendx.org/inaction/chemistry/images/original/sv5.jpg 22:18 -!- helleshin [~talinck@66-161-138-110.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:19 < kanzure> but yes i think pymol does this type of visualization 22:19 < kanzure> and presumably it's using opengl 22:19 < kanzure> thereofre translucency should be not impossibly hard 22:20 < fenn> i am attempting to use google image search in chrome with slow results 22:20 < fenn> https://engineering.purdue.edu/gekcogrp/software-projects/nanoHUB/nanowire.php 22:21 < fenn> animated gifs of translucent isosurfaces "Full 3D Volume Rendering of Electrostatic Potentials and Electron Densities" 22:22 < fenn> even that still shows the isosurfaces... in reality there are no surfaces 22:22 < fenn> in reality there are no surfaces 22:25 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 22:25 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26 < fenn> Called EVolVis, for electronic volume visualizer, the software lets scientists see atomic and molecular structures and interactions in a way never before possible by computing and visualizing the mathematical properties of the electrical charge distributions of the structures. The software relies on volume-based rather than surface rendering techniques, which means that users can probe entire 22:26 < fenn> molecules without obstruction by opaque surfaces and without having to preselect specific views or layers. The information attained from such a holistic perspective provides critical clues into molecular behavior, including why molecules take their distinctive shapes, how they orient themselves for chemical reactions, and even where new atoms may bind if a molecule is bent out of shape. 22:26 < kanzure> "never before possible" fucking liars 22:26 < fenn> http://www.cgw.com/images/Media/PublicationsArticle/ch3f.jpg 22:27 < fenn> from http://www.cgw.com/Publications/CGW/2001/Volume-24-Issue-3-March-2001-/Atomic-Vision.aspx 22:27 < fenn> .tell xentrac http://www.cgw.com/images/Media/PublicationsArticle/ch3f.jpg 22:27 < yoleaux> fenn: I'll pass your message to xentrac. 22:27 < kanzure> those seems to be the only few images available 22:28 < fenn> A computer-generated image of methyl fluoride. The upper object (with the "halo") is a fluorine atom, which has nine electrons "orbiting" its nucleus when it is an isolated atom. When fluorine is bonded in a molecule, as it is here, the electron count varies. Unenlightened chemists argue quite a bit over how to count them. 22:29 < fenn> kanzure: it may have never been possible before 2001 22:29 < fenn> at least not in real time 22:29 < kanzure> i don't like how different fields of study remain hopelessly disconnected 22:30 < fenn> i don't like how we are told lies repeatedly by supposed teachers 22:30 < kanzure> have you tried murdering them? 22:31 < fenn> no 22:32 < nmz787_i> what?! 22:34 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:34 < fenn> i was talking about the S orbital and the P orbital and the "hybrid orbital" and so on 22:34 < fenn> when really it looks like some glowing alien squid angel 22:35 < nmz787_i> http://people.nas.nasa.gov/~chenze/preston/ 22:35 < nmz787_i> 3 mpgs 22:35 < fenn> 6MB cyanocobalamin http://www.mtsu.edu/honors/images/B12.mpg 22:36 < nmz787_i> http://people.nas.nasa.gov/~chenze/home.html 22:36 < nmz787_i> huh 22:36 < nmz787_i> empty 22:36 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, but his PI wrote his dissertation. 22:36 < nmz787_i> http://www.mtsu.edu/honors/staff/macdougall.php 22:37 < fenn> i don't really get the green flash stuff 22:38 < nmz787_i> in b12.mpg? 22:38 < fenn> uh, hold on 22:39 < fenn> no, in pen1.mpg and pen2.mpg 22:39 < nmz787_i> i have the wikipedia structure open while looping the mpg 22:40 < nmz787_i> hmm 22:40 < fenn> huh it's actually red 22:40 < fenn> i thought they just colored the vitamin pills red to go with the cherry flavor 22:42 < nmz787_i> huh, that R group is literally an electronic 'stub' 22:42 < nmz787_i> R = isNotImplemented 22:42 < fenn> http://www.nas.nasa.gov/hecc/assets/images/content/Chaderjian_RotorcraftWakes_large.jpg 22:43 < fenn> topological knots 22:43 < fenn> i mean, vortex knots 22:48 < fenn> ugh i hate university biography pages 22:49 < fenn> paperbot: http://search.proquest.com/docview/276096281 22:49 < kanzure> "Dr. Mumbleson has participated in 8,347 papers across 20,000 conferences that you've never heard of. He is currently unavailable because he is in space." 22:53 < fenn> so there is no "EVolVis" anywhere that i can see 22:53 < nmz787_i> nope 22:53 < nmz787_i> nas.nasa doesn't list anything about molecules or atoms 22:54 < fenn> how does something like that just up and disappear 22:54 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:54 < kanzure> same way the lab server disappeared 22:55 -!- entelechios [~elysium@181.194.131.115] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:55 < gradstudentbot> It's contaminated. 22:55 < nmz787_i> or it changed names without attribution 22:56 < fenn> Written in C++ using OpenGL and XWindows, EVolVis can use either electron charge densities computed from wave functions or data obtained through X-ray crystallography to identify reactive sites in a molecule. 22:57 < nmz787_i> http://fujioizumi.verse.jp/visualization/VENUS.html 22:57 < nmz787_i> http://idav.ucdavis.edu/~okreylos/ResDev/VolVis/MainPage.html 22:59 < nmz787_i> paperbot: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=1073204.1073219 22:59 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1145%2F1186822.1073219 23:00 < fenn> acm doesnt work 23:00 < nmz787_i> he he 23:00 < nmz787_i> i can see it 23:01 < nmz787_i> it literally uses cartoons for examples 23:01 < nmz787_i> there is goofy throwing a baseball 23:01 < fenn> you don't get a 404? 23:01 < nmz787_i> I guess its through work 23:02 < kanzure> why are you still at work? 23:02 < kanzure> and why does intel have a subscription to acm 23:02 < kanzure> can you show me what the watermarks look like? 23:02 < nmz787_i> heh 23:02 < nmz787_i> umm 23:03 < nmz787_i> can you tell me what you are looking for? 23:03 < kanzure> just curious if the watermarks are the same as at universities 23:03 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/irc/Large_mesh_deformation_using_the_volumetric_graph_Laplacian.pdf 23:04 < delinquentme> OHHH KAY. 23:04 < delinquentme> Growth factors (Igf1, Igf2, Hgf, Fgf1, Tgfb1) in combination with cytokines (Il1, Il6, Tnf) coordinately promote cellular proliferation and the remodeling of the hepatic matrix composition which characterize the second stage of hepatic repair 23:05 < delinquentme> brb 23:05 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:05 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:05 < fenn> makes sense that intel would subscribe to acm 23:05 < kanzure> intel could just fucking buy acm 23:05 < kanzure> fuck acm 23:05 < nmz787_i> i'm at home 23:06 < fenn> see my previous ranting about union of libraries 23:07 < fenn> the source code is 35k? 23:07 < fenn> oh. The classes and the example program rely on the Vrui VR development toolkit (not contained in the tarball) 23:14 -!- sheena [~home@67.201.165.63] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:17 -!- Guest47374 [~abe@ip68-226-90-54.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:20 < fenn> i'm continually amazed at how much high quality free software is not in debian 23:20 < kanzure> .wik milnet 23:21 < yoleaux> "In computer networking, MILNET (Military Network) was the name given to the part of the ARPANET internetwork designated for unclassified United States Department of Defense traffic." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milnet 23:21 < nmz787_i> is the source avail? 23:21 < kanzure> MILNET is a terrible name 23:21 < kanzure> "During the 1980s the MILNET expanded to become the Defense Data Network, a worldwide set of military networks running at different security levels. In the 1990s, MILNET became the NIPRNET." 23:22 < kanzure> "NIPRNET is the largest private network in the world.[citation needed] Over the last decades[when?] it has grown faster than the U.S. Department of Defense can monitor, which is why DoD spent $10 million in 2010 to map out the current state of the NIPRNET, in an effort to analyze its expansion, and identify unauthorized users, who are suspected to have quietly joined the network.[2] The NIPRNET survey, which uses IPSonar software developed by ... 23:22 < kanzure> ... Lumeta Corporation, also looked for weakness in security caused by network configuration.[3] The Department of Defense has made a major effort over the last few years,[when?] to improve network security.[4] The Pentagon announced it was requesting $2.3 billion in the 2012 budget to bolster network security within the Defense Department and to strengthen ties with its counterparts at the Homeland Security Department." 23:23 < kanzure> oh brother "IPsonar provides visibility into every IP asset, host, node, and connection on the network, performing an active probe and mapping everything that's on the network, (not just an IP range that is supplied for scanning) resulting in a comprehensive view of the entire routed infrastructure." 23:24 < nmz787_i> isn't there some nix tool for that too? 23:24 < nmz787_i> nmap or something 23:25 < kanzure> uh, yeah 23:25 < fenn> http://idav.ucdavis.edu/~okreylos/ResDev/AMRVis/MouseLevel4.png http://idav.ucdavis.edu/~okreylos/ResDev/AMRVis/MouseDetail.png MOUSE scan :P 23:26 < kanzure> not bad 23:27 < nmz787_i> http://www.scl.ameslab.gov/MacMolPlt/ 23:28 < nmz787_i> http://www.cmbi.ru.nl/molden/molden.html 23:28 < fenn> did linux even have 3d graphics drivers in 1998 23:28 < nmz787_i> huh, that mentions AMBER 23:28 < nmz787_i> which I think that proteinShop program was using 23:29 < nmz787_i> " It can write a variety of graphics instructions; postscript, XWindows, VRML, povray, OpenGL, tekronix4014, hpgl, hp2392 and Figure" 23:30 < nmz787_i> hmm, all these links should be going into the wiki 23:30 < nmz787_i> http://www.chemissian.com/ 23:31 < kanzure> .title 23:31 < yoleaux> Chemissian: software to analyze spectra, build density maps and molecular orbitals 23:32 < fenn> they sure picked the worst screenshots for the top of the molden page 23:33 < kanzure> typical vtk/mayavi stuff 23:34 < fenn> a browser which supports client-side file upload (Netscape, version 2.0b2 and up) 23:35 < fenn> nmz787_i: so pymol does electron density calculations? or it just displays them? 23:36 < fenn> (either way it probably uses GAMESS) 23:39 -!- Guest47374 [~abe@ip68-226-90-54.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:44 < kanzure> abe? 23:44 < dingo> lol @ tekronix4014 23:45 < dingo> this is a very impressive demo of a tektronix display, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-F7ZySfgZ0 23:45 < kanzure> .title 23:45 < yoleaux> tek4006 23:46 < kanzure> neat 23:46 < kanzure> 4m44s is what i want 23:47 < dingo> yeah vector graphics, we sortof lost that at some point, dunno why it fell to the wayside 23:47 -!- nmz787_i [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-mlpoopeiqpfrtskr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:47 < dingo> i think the display can draw faster than this, too, i think this is just a network/serial limitation of some sort 23:48 < kanzure> in my mind this is what my terminal looks like: http://www.smartfellowspress.com/Escape%20NY%20Map.JPG 23:48 < kanzure> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c7/Escape_From_New_York_Wireframe.jpg 23:49 < fenn> long persistence phosphor display, i one painted a wall with glow in the dark paint and hacked up a UV laser scanner to do that: http://fennetic.net/portfolio/IMG_4883.JPG 23:50 < dingo> aha yeah that looks pretty great 23:50 < kanzure> how did you point the laser? 23:50 < fenn> galvanometers driven from a 5 channel sound card 23:51 < dingo> in my mind i remembered wargames a bit better than an ascii map, i guess it was ascii, darn, http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1383871!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/wargames28n-2-web.jpg 23:51 < fenn> it was actually an RGB laser vector display but we were only using the blue laser (which had quite a bit of UV in it) 23:52 < fenn> this thing was so cool http://fennetic.net/portfolio/IMG_4519.JPG 23:52 < dingo> https://github.com/jvtm/wm3con <- better world map 23:52 < kanzure> that's a lot of setup 23:52 < kanzure> i keep forgetting the name of physics optics board stuff 23:53 < kanzure> ikia science board pegs? 23:53 < fenn> optical breadboard, the main supplier is thor labs 23:53 < kanzure> blah 23:53 < kanzure> let's get eric hunting on that 23:54 < fenn> take me to your leader http://fennetic.net/fiat-lux/IMG_4559.JPG 23:55 < kanzure> were all those lenses really necessary 23:55 < fenn> eh? there's only one lens and one beam splitter per laser 23:56 < dingo> re: milnet, i might implement "RFC 927, "TACACS User Identification Telnet Option", describes a method of identifying terminal clients by a 32-bit UUID, providing a form of 'rlogin'. This system, published in 1984, was designed for MILNET by BBN, and the actual TACACS implementation is undocumented, though partially re-imagined by Cisco in RFC 1492. Essentially, the user's credentials are forwarded to a TACACS daemon to verify that the client does in fact have 23:57 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-76-167-105-53.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:57 < dingo> this one is more interesting, RFC 933, "Output Marking Telnet Option", describes a method of sending banners", such as displayed on login, with an associated ID to be stored by the client. The server may then indicate at which time during the session the banner is relevant. This was implemented by Mitre for DOD installations that might, for example, display various levels of "TOP SECRET" messages each time a record is opened -- preferably on the top, bottom, l 23:59 < fenn> it should overlay "TOP SECRET" in a red stamp-mark over the top of the entire screen, just to make sure 23:59 < fenn> and blinking 23:59 < fenn> better yet, just don't show anything except top secret --- Log closed Wed May 07 00:00:44 2014