--- Log opened Fri May 30 00:00:19 2014
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03:20 < kanzure> well that's boring
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03:29 < kanzure> strange what sorts of old stuff dreams can dig up, "the lazy man's parallel processor" http://www.animelyrics.com/anime/yyh/yyhnight.htm
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03:43 < kanzure> http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2014/05/29/how_to_buy_buy_buy.php
03:44 < kanzure> http://www.thestreet.com/story/12725934/1/the-seven-deadly-sins-of-biotech-investing.html
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03:46 < kanzure> "Also, selling a biotech stock shows disrespect to all those patients with terminal illnesses who will otherwise be cured."
03:51 < kanzure> "Изображения и тексты патентов получены из факсимильных файлов базы" http://fips.ru/ which is of course dead....
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03:53 < kanzure> ah but this exists http://www1.fips.ru/wps/wcm/connect/content_ru/ru/brands_and_points
03:57 < kanzure> http://www1.fips.ru/Electronic_bulletin/Inventions_and_utility_models/01_14/Index_ru.htm
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04:13 < jrayhawk_> i assume you remember thestreet being one of the organs of the naked short conspiracy
04:17 < kanzure> it is obviously satire?
04:18 < kanzure> "Like all good satire, there's an element of truth here" oh now i'm not sure
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04:19 < kanzure> huh good recall on that
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04:20 < jrayhawk_> actually it's probably the primary organ
04:20 < jrayhawk_> in terms of propaganda, that is
04:20 < gradstudentbot> That's the control group, right?
04:21 < kanzure> so what does it mean when the evil tentacle of the dark lords happens to publish satire
04:22 < jrayhawk_> i only read the first two paragraphs, which were hitpieces
04:22 < jrayhawk_> no idea if they were legitimate or illegitimate hitpieces
04:23 < kanzure> the rest of it was satirizing some funny behaviors of people who buy "biotech stocks"
04:23 < kanzure> erm, buy/sell/gamble
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04:24 < kanzure> i admire your ability to read things in the order in which they are presented to you
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04:29 < jrayhawk_> linking to TheStreet without that context is sortof like telling someone to go listen to a demon
04:29 < jrayhawk_> no matter how profound the truths, they cannot be distinguished from the lies
04:30 < kanzure> it's possible that the inthepipeline person doesn't know
04:30 < kanzure> i certainly didn't remember
04:30 < kanzure> and i'm not sure how you did
04:30 < kanzure> wasn't there like 2,000 fists of the demon listed
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04:35 < mosasaur> How about piggybacking on stories like the enhanced measles virus curing cancer?
04:36 < nshlike> i wish i could make it hurt to use the words "cure" and "cancer" in a sentence
04:36 < nshlike> like testicular torsion levels of pain
04:36 < jrayhawk_> are "prevent" and "cancer" allowed
04:37 < nshlike> if qualified
04:37 < nshlike> you can't prevent all cancers everywhere
04:37 < nshlike> except by death
04:37 < jrayhawk_> death didn't stop henrietta laks
04:37 < nshlike> cancer is what happens to cells that don't die
04:37 < nshlike> there's not really a third option...
04:37 < jrayhawk_> s/laks/lacks/
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04:44 < mosasaur> It seems it's not gotten any more friendly here.
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04:51 < nshlike> we forgot to optimize the strong-AI for hugz
04:52 < chris_99> Daeken, if you're about, have you ever RE'd a bluetooth device per chance?
04:52 < nshlike> :((
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07:21 < archels> paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nphoton/journal/v8/n6/full/nphoton.2014.107.html
07:21 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fnphoton.2014.107
07:23 <@fenn> we are now in command. all your spacecrafts belong to us.
07:24 < chris_99> nmz787, is this http://hackaday.io/project/1279-DIY-3D-Printable-RaspberryPi-Raman-Spectrometer yours
07:28 <@fenn> 150mW focused to a tiny point could do some serious damage
07:29 < chris_99> mm i imagine it could
07:30 <@fenn> i wonder if you can buy just the laser diode and not their crappy aluminum enclosure/optics
07:30 < chris_99> dunno, wouldnt you need to focus it still
07:30 <@fenn> yes
07:31 <@fenn> i've found that the side emitting diodes have a lot of astigmatism which basically makes the standard spherical optics useless
07:32 <@fenn> astigmatism is the wrong word.. the beam is diffracted by the close spacing of the top and bottom of the diode sandwich, which widens the beam more in one dimension than the other
07:32 <@fenn> but if you add some anamorphic prisms before the spherical collimating lens, you can at least get a square beam profile
07:34 <@fenn> this is interesting http://www.ebay.com/itm/RGB-1W-Laser-Module-Combined-Laser-beam-532nm-638nm-450nm-Special-Offer-/261234540301
07:34 < chris_99> ooooh
07:35 < chris_99> could one make a laser projector from that i wonder
07:35 <@fenn> with those combiner optics you can get any color beam you want
07:35 <@fenn> yeah we made one.. one thing to worry about is the individual laser turn on/off time, which is different for each laser
07:36 < chris_99> oh
07:36 < chris_99> are they pulsed
07:36 < chris_99> ah 30kHZ
07:37 <@fenn> this is the software we adapted to control the rgb laser projector https://github.com/broxtronix/Fiat-Lux
07:38 < chris_99> did you use a mirror galvanometer?
07:38 <@fenn> yeah
07:38 < chris_99> any photos of how it looked?
07:38 <@fenn> i wish we had more documentation of the actual build; diagrams and whatnot
07:39 <@fenn> all i have is http://fennetic.net/fiat-lux/
07:40 <@fenn> there's some youtube stuff too
07:40 < chris_99> heh that's cool
07:41 < chris_99> just looked at the lena raster
07:42 <@fenn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVTlrpmaG0g http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pNG-aXWBa8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jTt3WkfM9o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9JfI3rtwgs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZdXhKXFT18 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oojv3z0Ugng http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKWM4kn34ys
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07:45 < chris_99> do you still have it?
07:45 <@fenn> man the video compression really kills the detail in the fog swirls
07:45 < chris_99> looks really fun to play with
07:46 <@fenn> broxton has it
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07:54 <@fenn> there are more demos.. one does robot arm kinematics for a "dancing worm" effect, a snake that chases a fly, and realtime edge detection on video input
07:55 <@fenn> i wanted to port "torus trooper" the video game but ran out of time
08:13 < sheena> anyone here unerstand how to use a drug's half life to determine how long it would take to be completely eliminated from the body?
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08:27 <@fenn> sheena: it's never "completely" eliminated
08:29 < sheena> ok
08:29 < sheena> my doctor says "stop taking X drug 14 days before this test"
08:29 < sheena> but he says this for all drugs
08:29 < sheena> and they're clearly not all going to be eliminated in the same way in 14 days?
08:29 < sheena> some will be eliminated faster, yes?
08:29 <@fenn> yes
08:29 <@fenn> the ones with the shorter half lives
08:32 < sheena> right
08:33 < sheena> so how would i determine whether a drug with a half life of 13 hours would be "sufficiently eliminated" in ....some number of days <14 ?
08:33 <@fenn> in this graph the half life is x where the curve crosses y=0.5 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_decay
08:36 <@fenn> you have to define "sufficiently" as a number N, then N = initial_concentration*2^(-t/half_life)
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08:37 <@fenn> t = -half_life*log(N/initial)/log(2)
08:38 <@fenn> i think
08:39 <@fenn> .wa given a half life of one day, what is the time for exponential decay from 1 to 0.1
08:39 < yoleaux> fenn: Sorry, no result!
08:42 < sheena> thanks
08:44 <@fenn> i kinda hate wolfram alpha
08:44 <@fenn> .wa -(13/24)day*log(0.1/1)/log(2) in day
08:44 < yoleaux> convert -13/24 days×(log(0.1×1/1))/(log(2)) to days: 1.799 days; 1 day 19 hours 11 minutes 6.235 seconds; Additional conversions: 43 hours 11 minutes 6.235 seconds; 155466 seconds; 2591 minutes; 43.19 hours; Comparison as time: ~5.4 × 8-hour workday (8 h); Corresponding quantities: Distance x traveled by light in a vacuum from x = ct:: 4.661×10¹⁰ km (kilometers): 4.661×10¹³ meters: 312 au (astronomical units): 28.96  …
08:44 < yoleaux> billion miles
08:45 < sheena> N = initial_concentration*2^(-t/half_life)
08:46 < sheena> can i use initial dosage instead of initial concentration, somehow?
08:46 < sheena> would they be approximately proportionate?
08:46 <@fenn> divide the dosage by your body mass and assume you absorb 100%
08:46 <@fenn> usually pharmaceutical concentrations are expressed as mg/kg
08:47 < sheena> ok
08:50 < sheena> http://pastebin.com/HknRxyh6
08:51 < sheena> so using the idea that "being off prozac for 14 days before this test is sufficient", i've calculated N (maybe incorrectly?) assumine a halflife of 3 days (average of 2-4)
08:51 < sheena> then put N into the formula with the dose and halflife for the other drug, solving for X should give me "number of days before being off Drug X is sufficient for test"
08:51 < sheena> is this correct maths?
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08:54 <@fenn> if 12 hours is the half life of drug X, yes
08:54 <@fenn> also if 0.01 is "low enough"
08:55 <@fenn> oh that's 13 hours, right
08:56 <@fenn> you should get 3.58 days to decay to 0.0102 mg/kg
08:57 < sheena> ok
08:57 < sheena> thanks.
08:57 < sheena> i can plug in/change numbrse myself as long as the math is sound
08:58 < sheena> its just totally illogical to say "take 14 days off these two completely different drugs before test"..
08:59 <@fenn> there are more things going on than just drug concentration, for example genes get turned up or down
09:00 <@fenn> pharmacology is pretty back-of-the-napkin
09:00 < sheena> i cant imagine the doctor is even considering tht factor, but if you have knowledge of this stuff, i'd be happy to explain the exact situation and get your feeling/feedback
09:03 <@fenn> join us next time for IRC MD PhD
09:03 < chris_99> hehe
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09:04 <@fenn> sheena: i dont know quantitatively how various gene networks react, and possibly nobody does
09:05 <@fenn> you'd have to run a simulation with the KEGG pathway database and more.. ugh.
09:06 < sheena> yeah, tht was my thought
09:06 <@fenn> i wish something like this existed for real but it's a bit out of my range of experience to even try to think about it
09:06 < sheena> no one knows,s o it cant matter
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09:11 < sheena> fenn: you're awesome btw
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09:15 < nmz787_i> my old dog's name was sheena
09:15 < sheena> mine too, thats where the nick came from
09:15 < nmz787_i> i got her from the neighbor who basically abandonded her on his back porch
09:15 < sheena> i was 6 when i started online things, and my dad said "pick something that isnt your name"
09:15 < sheena> sheena@hotmail.com was taken
09:15 < nmz787_i> lol, cool
09:16 < sheena> hd_sheena was the handle chosen, then shortened to sheena for irc and other things later
09:16 < nmz787_i> she was a rottweiler, and a sweety at that
09:17 < sheena> ours was a springer
09:17 < sheena> i dunno if ihave a digital pic
09:17 < nmz787_i> i do somewhere, but might not be able to get at it now
09:18 < chris_99> nmz787_i, is http://hackaday.io/project/1279-DIY-3D-Printable-RaspberryPi-Raman-Spectrometer yours?
09:18 < nmz787_i> no!
09:18 < nmz787_i> that is indeed important for me to look at tho
09:19 < nmz787_i> oh, huh, not much there as of now
09:20 < nmz787_i> we were interviewed at makerfaire by the hackaday crew, and they told me about the .io contest
09:20 < chris_99> indeed, i just thought it may have been yours
09:20 < nmz787_i> i'd like to get my spectrometer up and running to add it there tho
09:20 < nmz787_i> it is pretty close
09:20 < nmz787_i> i've got everything pretty much to setup for raman as well, except the filters
09:21 < kanzure> what are you missing?
09:21 < nmz787_i> the filters
09:21 < nmz787_i> and the rest of the crap assembled into something from various piles (or stuff packed nicely in padded boxes) of stuff
09:23 < kanzure> optical filters?
09:24 < nmz787_i> firmware wise i'd like to start a parallel development track, using the LPC Link V2 board... using one of the processors to handle USB stuff (commands as well as data)... but I think the Parallax Propeller is fine for an entry into that contest... its easier to start hacking on anyway compared to the LPC LINK V21
09:24 < nmz787_i> V2
09:24 < nmz787_i> yes optical filters
09:24 < nmz787_i> the notch/cliff/dropoff filter
09:24 < nmz787_i> ~$200
09:25 < chris_99> whats the rough total BOM cost? btw
09:25 < gradstudentbot> Can I borrow some sulphuric acid?
09:26 <@fenn> i am going to be having dinner with a IR spectrometer builder guy on sunday.. what should i ask him?
09:27 <@fenn> actually he lives in portland. colby foss
09:27 < nmz787_i> is the chinese gratings work out nicely, ~$300 I seem to remember
09:28 < nmz787_i> if*
09:28 < nmz787_i> so maybe ~$500 with Raman filters
09:28 < chris_99> interesting
09:29 < gradstudentbot> The culture got contaminated.
09:29 < nmz787_i> IR spectroscopy... ask about wavenumbers, and comparing data using different excitation wavelengths... how do you interconvert??? (I think you just need to know the input wavelength.... but then IR is generally broad spectrum unless its broken up like in FTIR)
09:30 < kanzure> .wik FTIR
09:30 < yoleaux> "Fourier transform infrared spectroscopy (FTIR) is a technique which is used to obtain an infrared spectrum of absorption, emission, photoconductivity or Raman scattering of a solid, liquid or gas." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FTIR
09:30 < nmz787_i> basically if you get a laser with not enough thermostability... I wonder if you can just get a really nice high bit number temp sensor... and say any thermal variation will vary the laser freq in a way that correlates to temp
09:31 < nmz787_i> so if you take a reading in the sun, then in the shade moments later... you can compare the readings even though the laser freq was slightly diff
09:31 <@fenn> does the wavelength shift that much over a few degrees?
09:32 < nmz787_i> this wouldn't take into account more or less laser bleeding through the filter, unless the filter cutoff was a few nm away (while I think temp instability would cause the wavelength to vary within a nm)
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09:32 < nmz787_i> apparently thermal stability is a major concern... but I've been planning to use a linear sensor, to get a reading in one frame
09:33 < nmz787_i> not scanning with a monochrometer for instance
09:33 < nmz787_i> so I don't think variation within a reading is a problem, but maybe between readings... I think changing the input freq to Raman changes the stretch of the output graph
09:34 < nmz787_i> but this has to do with converting to wavenumbers which I really never understood well
09:34 <@fenn> "At first of movie we are observing a 50 caliber bullet at left of screen. The FIRST system then begins to track the bullet at center of frame. The bullet is then bore-sighted with a laser range finder. At that time the bullet is illuminated with the laser to generate 3-d tracking."
09:59 < kanzure> if you say so
09:59 < kanzure> nmz787_i, what's the holdup on the filters?
10:00 < kanzure> fenn, what was the say on soylent again? besides their crapped up marketing.
10:02 < kanzure> and besides the fact that the guy turned evil and isn't interested in his recipe sharing
10:02 <@fenn> kinda expensive, canola is bad, unclear if their nutrients are bioavailable enough, lots of carbohydrates, rice protein is possibly bad/unclear, and no recipe sharing
10:02 < Daeken> chris_99: quite a few (actually just hacked my bluetooth treadmill the other day haha).  what's up?
10:03 < nmz787_i> kanzure: mainly because i haven't had the time/energy recently to get the spectrometer finished, so why buy filters if I cant use them yet
10:04 <@fenn> what! "why buy hacking supplies if i'm too busy" and you call yourself a tinkerer
10:04 < kanzure> okay, i was gonna offer
10:04 < chris_99> Daeken, ooh, i just got some info from ##re, that i should maybe checkout ubertooth or any other SDR, i'm planning on re'ing https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/903107259/scio-your-sixth-sense-a-pocket-molecular-sensor-fo when i get it, as the dev kit is apparently $600!!!!!!!
10:05 < kanzure> haha expensive dev kits.. when will the world learn?
10:05 <@fenn> "dev kit"
10:05 < chris_99> it pairs with a phone right, so would i be able to sniff it easily using any SDR
10:05 < chris_99> or could i just dump the packets easy enough from Android
10:05 < nmz787_i> ok, cool, my parents have been visiting the past week or so, and makerfaire was the weekend before last, I plan to work on it heavily the next few weekends and maybe weeknights next week
10:05 < kanzure> oh i dunno if you need SDR to reverse engineer bluetooth things
10:05 < kanzure> no way
10:05 < nmz787_i> starting next week
10:05 < Daeken> chris_99: the SDR route -- noooo
10:05 < chris_99> yeah completely stupid
10:05 < Daeken> then you have to intercept the pairing and all that crap
10:05 < Daeken> just hook the relevant functions in software.
10:05 <@fenn> bluetooth is encrypted
10:05 < chris_99> why not Daeken
10:05 < kanzure> you should look at the emotiv stuff we did
10:06 < Daeken> on android it's easy, ios it's only slightly harder.
10:06 < kanzure> or rather, the emotiv stuff i claim to have done, but really that daeken did
10:06 < chris_99> ah ok, so is it just hcidump
10:06 < kanzure> bro i'm stealing your credit hope you're cool with thta
10:06 < chris_99> or something
10:06 < Daeken> kanzure: haha, sure.  i know you did something, but i don't remember what exactly, so feel free to take as much or as little credit as you want :P
10:07 < kanzure> i don't remember either
10:07 < kanzure> the optimal scenario
10:07 < kanzure> chris_99: so, we reverse engineered a bluetooth eeg thing
10:07 < kanzure> and there's some python and C code floating around
10:07 < Daeken> chris_99: well no, you just hook the android bluetooth calls
10:07 < kanzure> that you can steal
10:07 < Daeken> kanzure: s/bluetooth/usb/
10:07 < Daeken> emotiv wasn't bt
10:07 < kanzure> oh right, but the usb dongle was bluetooth i think
10:07 < Daeken> nah
10:07 < kanzure> how was it communicating?
10:07 < kanzure> infrared?
10:07 <@fenn> brainwaves
10:07 < kanzure> but..
10:07 < Daeken> no, it was RF, but it wasn't bt ... i don't remember what it was.
10:08 < Daeken> it was an off-the-shelf protocol.
10:08 < kanzure> hm
10:08 < kanzure> well it was stupid
10:08 < chris_99> Daeken, so is that done in C, and do i need to root my phone for that?
10:08 < kanzure> you'll need to root your phone to disassemble their app
10:08 < Daeken> chris_99: you will need to root your phone, and it can either be done in C or in java.
10:08 < kanzure> which is something that i would be happy to help with (the app disassembling)
10:08 < Daeken> my guess is that their app is java, in which case you could probably break it without actually hooking at all.
10:09 < Daeken> just decompiling the app and reading it
10:09 < chris_99> ok neat
10:09 <@fenn> if you're reverse engineering it, what is the dev kit for?
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10:09 < chris_99> i didn't think about REing the ap
10:09 < kanzure> the app is what will be doing protocol things, i bet
10:09 < chris_99> so theres two type of dev kit
10:09 < Daeken> yeah, i always forget how easy android is.
10:09 < chris_99> one which gives you access to some cloud thing, the other gives you access to raw spectra
10:09 < chris_99> data
10:09 < Daeken> on ios i usually shy away from poking at binaries, and just stick to the protocol level
10:09 < Daeken> that's how i'm breaking this bluetooth amp right now
10:10 < Daeken> which i'm hoping to write about soon.
10:10 < kanzure> chris_99: you should install cyanogenmod and just have root natively, instead of breaking your oem software or w/e
10:10 < Daeken> (line6 put out a guitar amp that's completely configured over bluetooth, and only has an ios app.  just wrong.)
10:10 < chris_99> ok, i'll look into that, kanzure i just have a really crappy android phone
10:10 < kanzure> yes that is wrong
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10:12 < chris_99> is it not possible to easily decrypt via SDR then
10:12 <@fenn> i see a $199 "early adopters", $201 "maker kit", $399 "early developers", $999 "hacker & researcher" and $10k "partner"
10:12 < chris_99> i got the $199
10:12 < chris_99> onee
10:12 < kanzure> haha that's totally the wrong direction
10:12 < kanzure> the developer kits should be cheaper
10:12 < Daeken> chris_99: if your'e going with the decompilation route, there's no need for a phone at all really.  just need a way to get the apk, and then you can do everything else
10:12 < kanzure> so that you get developer adoption
10:12 < kanzure> and then you can fuck over the customers, rather than your devs
10:12 < chris_99> ok Daeken :)
10:12 < Daeken> chris_99: with an SDR, i can't imagine how you'd easily hack a bluetooth device.  you'd have to MITM the pairing and all that.
10:13 < kanzure> bluetooth mitm stuff would be fun to do
10:13 < chris_99> Daeken, i thought maybe if you knew the pin that was used...
10:13 < Daeken> kanzure: i've been thinking about figuring out how to do it with an android phone.
10:13 < FourFire> D: mitm bluetooth
10:13 <@fenn> kanzure: they seem to be assuming that the only reason anyone would want to develop with it is to make money on some "how much sugar is in my cornflakes" app
10:13 < Daeken> chris_99: nah, even if you know the pin, the crypto isn't keyed to that.
10:13 < chris_99> but i guess theres still the key exchange
10:13 < chris_99> yeah
10:13 < FourFire> I have enough trouble with BT as it is
10:14 < kanzure> banjo tooie?
10:14 <@fenn> .wik bt
10:14 < yoleaux> "BT or Bt may refer to:" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bt
10:14 < Daeken> belize telemedia?
10:14 < chris_99> how does ubertooth do it then i wonder
10:14 < chris_99> i'll have too look at that
10:16 < Daeken> dunno, never played with one
10:16 <@fenn> i was thinking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BT_(musician)
10:18 < FourFire> BT=bluetooth, obvoiusly
10:19 < Daeken> i <3 BT (one of my old companies sponsored one of his tours, so i ended up meeting him and talking tech for a couple hours.  fuckin' sharp dude)
10:19 < nmz787_i> kanzure: hahhaha i loved those banjo kazooie games, i played the first the most
10:19 < nmz787_i> Bacillus Thuringiensis?
10:19 < nmz787_i> :P
10:19 < kanzure> nmz787_i: one of the pokemon rom hackers is also the only banjo kazooie rom hacker
10:19 < kanzure> nmz787_i: did you ever see "rare witch project" stuff?
10:20 < nmz787_i> hmm, no, I remember some parody 'bear witch project' but dont remember the content, only the name
10:21 < kanzure> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSQxq6P9EYY
10:22 <@fenn> .title
10:22 < kanzure> anyway they did this back in 2002-2004 entering a few thousand gameshark codes
10:22 < yoleaux> Banjo-Kazooie Blubber's Secret Island
10:22 < gradstudentbot> My code doesn't work. I have no idea why...
10:22 < kanzure> also he made "mumbo's wand", the only banjo kazooie level editor i think
10:23 < kanzure> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuzt_RFE4JU
10:23 < kanzure> i spent way too many hours looking through the ram viewer. i tsarted to document the filenames of their source code etc.
10:23 < kanzure> (this must have been 2000?)
10:26 < kanzure> unfortunately the only way to do a reliable disassembly is dynarec i think
10:27 < delinquentme> So BBL had this LOVELY meetup last night w a dude from a company called novozymes.
10:28 < delinquentme> 10 bil market cap company designing enzymes ... Coolest thing I walked away with was probably novel uses of sequencing for optimization of synthetic organism output
10:29 < delinquentme> and also GRAS organisms are quite a nice abstraction
10:29 < kanzure> synthesis is the main blocker on producing novel enzyme output
10:29 < kanzure> there's already lots of sequencing
10:29 < kanzure> but if you can't generate a trillion item library what's the point
10:31 < delinquentme> I couldn't get how many organism permutations he had in their sequencing library
10:31 < delinquentme> But he mentioned that he worked alongside someone @ berkeley in sequencing named michael rae.
10:32 < delinquentme> And I'm wondering if thats the same SENS michael rae
10:32 < kanzure> i was introduced to michael rae 2009-02-02 by robert bradbury
10:32 < kanzure> i wonder if that's the dead one
10:33 < nmz787_i> kanzure: you were hacking speedily when I was merely wondering what how to even get started with a dissassembler
10:33 < nmz787_i> :/ negative 1 for lack of mentorship or whatever
10:33 < kanzure> i didn't know about disassemblers back then
10:34 < kanzure> all i had was a gameshark and this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPpiFGIzOyw
10:34 < kanzure> .title
10:34 < yoleaux> Gameshark Sharkwire Commercial
10:35 < gradstudentbot> Who has the latest version of the paper?
10:36 < kanzure> "Robert Bradbury may refer to: The author of the Matrioshka brain concept"
10:37 < kanzure> .wik matrioshka brain
10:37 < yoleaux> "A matrioshka brain is a hypothetical megastructure proposed by Robert Bradbury, based on the Dyson sphere, of immense computational capacity. It is an example of a Class B stellar engine, employing the entire energy output of a star to drive computer systems. This concept derives its name from Russian Matrioshka dolls." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrioshka_brain
10:37 < kanzure> yes but is he dead or not. grr.
10:37 < kanzure> http://www.kurzweilai.net/robert-bradbury
10:37 < kanzure> seems to say he died in 2011
10:39 < kanzure> huh, so a unixy microbiology transhumanist person
10:39 < kanzure> http://www.kurzweilai.net/dialogue-between-ray-kurzweil-eric-drexler-and-robert-bradbury
10:40 < kanzure> "So I would argue that you could take a frozen head, drop it on the floor so it shatters into millions or billions of pieces and as long as it remains frozen, still successfully reassemble it (or scan it into an upload). In its disassembled state it is certainly one very large 3D jigsaw puzzle, but it can only be reassembled one correct way. Provided you have sufficient scanning and computational capacity, it shouldn’t be too difficult to ...
10:40 < kanzure> ... figure out how to put it back together."
10:43 < FourFire> "sufficient" computing capacity is "bounded"
10:43 < FourFire> a shattered brain would melt quickly, unless it's still in the cold room
10:44 < kanzure> i don't think they're arguing that you should smash brains
10:44 < delinquentme> Ok So I'm having a convo w someone about freeze drying.  I dont think that I'm underestimating its complexity.  Its a vacuum.
10:44 < kanzure> smash frozen brains, even
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10:44 < FourFire> they're arguing whether having your head frozen and then dropped is "survivable"
10:46 < delinquentme> If you want to get INCREDIBLY exotic we can point out shielding for different high energy particles ... but really if you want to freeze dry a sample O2 will be removed during vacating the air
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11:03 < kanzure> i tink the stratum protocol is a little backwards
11:03 < kanzure> *think
11:03 < kanzure> "On the beginning of the session, client subscribes current connection for receiving mining jobs. Now let authorize some workers. You can authorize as many workers as you wish and at any time during the session. In this way, you can handle big basement of independent mining rigs just by one Stratum connection."
11:03 < kanzure> so the first message a stratum client sends is a subscription request, followed by any number of authorization requests :|
11:31 < kanzure> jrayhawk_: what's the name of the reverse telnet tool that lets me wait for an incoming connection, then lets me type things?
11:33 < kanzure> ah, nc -l -p
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11:40 < sheena> fenn you still here?
11:41 < sheena> 0.0102 = (20/77) * 2^(-x/0.5416)
11:41 < sheena> 2^(-x/0.5416) = 0.0102 * 77/20
11:41 < sheena> x/0.5416 = -log(0.0102 * 77/20, 2)
11:41 < sheena> x = -log(0.0102 * 77/20, 2) * 0.5416
11:41 < sheena>   = 2.5295041253028567
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11:52 < nmz787_i> kanzure: sharkwire online huh, never heard of it... the only thing slightly similar, though lacking apparent cheat/mod features, was sega channel (but that was like 1995 or 1996 I think)
11:52 < nmz787_i> Sega channel was friggin awesome for its time
11:52 < nmz787_i> games coming over the cable TV wire
11:52 < nmz787_i> *mindblowing* to an 8 year old
11:53 < nmz787_i> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTcIqsFEQNk
11:53 < nmz787_i> 'very economical, and keeps my kids at home'
11:55 < nmz787_i> huh made by 'Scientific Atlanta' the old cable box company
11:56 < nmz787_i> oh, another adapter made by "General Instrument"
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11:57 < nmz787_i> both officially licensed
11:57 < nmz787_i> 'menu accessible cheats and tips'
11:57 < kanzure> i didn't have the sharkwire actually. just the video heh.
11:57 < nmz787_i> hah hah , they show a small dog playin the sega controller
11:58 < nmz787_i> random youtube comment "Sega channel was AMAZING! It still blows my mind that they had that technology back then. I got it in early 95 in Boston. And having 50+ new games every month was mind blowing and it wasn't bad games most of the games were top sellers and you would get most games 3 months after their initial release. Once I got PS at the end of the yr. Sega Channel went with it. But it was really cool "
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12:00 < nmz787_i> I actually remember something similar... the bedroom where my friend had sega channel soon got a PlayStation in it, my memories are pretty vague of back then... but I remember playing a lot of some side-scrolling team fighter game on the PS more than playing sonic or whatever on sega channel
12:00 < kanzure> it's all just licensing deals
12:00 < nmz787_i> ooo 'fighting force'
12:00 < kanzure> of course it was possible back then.. it's the patent owners that sue the hell out of anyone that bothers/tries.
12:00 < kanzure> (and other competing reasons)
12:01 < kanzure> "Sega Channel was provided to the public by Time Warner Cable and TCI through cable television services by way of coaxial cable"
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12:02 < kanzure> "Headed by former Time Warner senior vice president Stanley B. Thomas Jr., the service was a joint venture between Telecommunications Inc. (TCI), Time Warner Entertainment, and Sega of America Inc. for the Genesis console."
12:03 < kanzure> ah they hired a time warner cable person
12:04 < kanzure> and he died in 1995 http://www.nytimes.com/1995/04/28/obituaries/stanley-b-thomas-jr-cable-tv-executive-52.html
12:04 < kanzure> "Mr. Thomas is survived by his wife, .., and four children, ..., and Stanley 3d."
12:05 < kanzure> oh 3rd.. not 3d. damn.
12:05 < kanzure> i suspect it died because he did
12:05 < kanzure> "According to an informational piece broadcast over the channel, Stanley B. Thomas, Jr., former senior vice president of Time Warner, headed the service"
12:06 < kanzure> "YOU WILL FEAR MY GLORIOUS TELEVISED ASS"
12:09 < gradstudentbot> Sorry for wasting your time.
12:24  * nmz787_i wonders if kanzure paid mechanical turk to man gradstudentbot
12:24 < gradstudentbot> I think more research is required.
12:24 < nmz787_i> yes, certainly
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12:40 < kanzure> i can't decide if he's hilarious because it's funny or if he's hilarious because graduate students are just so sad
12:54 <@fenn> sheena: i forgot to use 20/77, i used 1 instead
12:59 < seba-> http://www.thepoke.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/tumblr_n4g2lzcsi21rrqskho1_500.jpg
13:00 <@fenn> seba-: ?
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13:03 < kanzure> aren't variables supposed to be shared between greenlets?
13:03 < gradstudentbot> Do you have references for that?
13:04 < kanzure> ayaaa
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13:12 < nmz787_i> kanzure: is there a Visual Studio drag-n-drog HTML editor that doesn't suck?
13:12 < nmz787_i> drag-n-drop
13:13 < nmz787_i> something that might help me learn how to code it better
13:13 < nmz787_i> i tried starting with twitter bootstrap but didn't really get anywhere fast
13:16 <@fenn> "drag-n-drop" != "code"
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13:17 < nmz787_i> well those things usually generate code
13:17 <@fenn> they usually generate garbage that people like me have to clean up
13:17 < nmz787_i> maybe
13:17 < kanzure> dpk might know more about that, i think he might have even read the css spec
13:17 < gradstudentbot> Wow, that would be a great sample to add to my collection.
13:17 < nmz787_i> but i asked specifically for one that 'doesn't suck'
13:17 < dpk> hmm?
13:18 < nmz787_i> i might be able to learn /something/ from sucky code
13:18 < dpk> i haven't read all of the CSS spec. only the bits i've needed from time to time
13:18 <@fenn> just read the w3 tutorials
13:18 < nmz787_i> i've heard w3 is pretty limited in some cases
13:18 <@fenn> w3 is all there is
13:18 <@fenn> everything else is abuse
13:19 < dpk> .g no w3schools
13:19 < yoleaux> http://www.w3fools.com/
13:19 < dpk> ^
13:19 < kanzure> twitter bootstrap is a collection of working knowledge about css that css monkeys have accumulated after years of battling all sorts of browsers
13:19 < kanzure> at this point mozilla's mdn is way better on averae
13:19 < kanzure> *average
13:19 < seba-> hm
13:19 < nmz787_i> i just wanted some framework to use for laying out guis in cefpython
13:19 < kanzure> there are certain things in bootstrap that are non-obvious if you haven't experienced the community the whole time
13:19 < seba-> we just tested, animal probiotics
13:20 < kanzure> for example, "why the hell is everything on a random grid that isn't just css?"
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13:20 < seba-> they are sterile water
13:20 < seba-> lol
13:20 < nmz787_i> i figured bootstrap is used widely enough that it might be a good starting point
13:20 < nmz787_i> hmm
13:20 < kanzure> there are simpler grid layout systems if that's all you want
13:20 < kanzure> like 960gs or bluegrid or etc etc
13:20 < kanzure> wait.. not bluegrid.
13:21 < kanzure> blueprint
13:21 < kanzure> http://www.blueprintcss.org/
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13:21 < kanzure> it's mostly a grid system, but bootstrap has a bunch of those too
13:21 < nmz787_i> cool, i'll check it out
13:21 < kanzure> css monkeying is the reason why i don't accept frontend gigs anymore
13:22 <@fenn> dpk: ok so w3schools has no connection to the w3c, so what?
13:22 < kanzure> content is often bad and security nightmare
13:23 < kanzure> nmz787_i: btw, you might just take something from themeforest.net and cut down on your time..
13:23 <@fenn> nmz787_i: bootstrap is an advanced thing on top of another thing
13:23 < kanzure> nmz787_i: it's worth the $8
13:23 <@fenn> you need to learn how the base layer works first
13:23 < kanzure> i don't know if i enjoy knowing how css works
13:23 < kanzure> definitely not on my top 10 list..
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13:24 <@fenn> i dont get why css has such a bad reputation
13:24 < kanzure> because you have to debug in 12 browsers simultaneously
13:24 <@fenn> that's the browser's fault for being buggy
13:24 < chris_99> mm
13:24 <@fenn> i bet they render html different, and flash different, and fonts different, but you don't complain about that
13:25 < kanzure> i wonder if anyone has a simultaneous autorefresh for multiple browsers... i should go look.
13:25 < kanzure> actually people do complain about that
13:25 < kanzure> they do image pixel-by-pixel testing etc etc
13:25 <@fenn> so why is css the bad guy?
13:25 < gradstudentbot> You used the wrong formula.
13:26 <@fenn> all this pixel-perfect shit just makes it not work right on my netbook screen
13:27 <@fenn> you want pixel perfect? render a .png and use image maps
13:27 <@fenn> (i shouldnt give people ideas)
13:28 <@fenn> css was harder to figure out before firebug and the chrome inspector, because you didn't know what was padding vs margin vs border
13:28 < nmz787_i> some of these wxpython widgets are written in pure python, and then the API gets all fragmented (similar functions with different calls between different widgets)
13:28 < kanzure> all of my css hate is probably from the days of quirks mode
13:29 < nmz787_i> so i'm thinking using more RAM to run a chromium might be fine
13:29 <@fenn> but now it's so easy, you can even change things with live preview and show the box model in 3d etc
13:33 <@fenn> nmz787_i: are you actually talking about running chrome the web browser? or just a html/css based GUI?
13:33 < kanzure> he's using cefpython to do an html/css gui for a desktop application
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13:34 < nmz787_i> the latter, using chromium instantiated in python using chrome extension framework python implementation
13:34 < nmz787_i> thinking about it
13:34 < nmz787_i> i'm not sure i want to try switching to that now
13:34 <@fenn> please don't use chrome extension whatever just for a simple GUI
13:34 < nmz787_i> but might for future projects
13:34 < kanzure> it's not really a chrome extension
13:34 < kanzure> it's more like embedded chromium
13:35 <@fenn> either way it sounds terrible
13:35 < kanzure> yep
13:35 < nmz787_i> wx has some other html display thing
13:35 < nmz787_i> but i'm not sure how much of that can hook up to/emit events
13:35 < kanzure> firefox used to be embeddable, until the world decided to hate lkcl
13:36 < kanzure> gtkmozembed stuff etc
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13:43 <@fenn> nmz787_i: you do realize gtk runs on mac and windows, right?
13:44 < dingo> i worked on gtkicq in 1998
13:44 < kanzure> nice
13:45 < kanzure> how much gtk stuff does it use? big gui?
13:45 < dingo> ftp://distrib-coffee.ipsl.jussieu.fr/pub/linux/mandriva-prehistory/6.0/i586/index-html/gtkicq-0.60-1.i386.html
13:45 < dingo> i can't believe its still available
13:45 < dingo> i went to high school with Ryan Weaver
13:46 < gradstudentbot> Cancer: still not cured.
13:46 <@fenn> back in the days before laptops
13:46 < gradstudentbot> I have to order new primers.
13:49 < nmz787_i> fenn all windows users anyway
13:49 < nmz787_i> for this project at least
13:50 < kanzure> msvc actually has a bunch of wizards for gui drag-and-drop stuff
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14:04 < jrayhawk_> 13:24 < kanzure> because you have to debug in 12 browsers simultaneously
14:04 < jrayhawk_> 13:24 <@fenn> that's the browser's fault for being buggy
14:04 < jrayhawk_> if a standard is unimplementable, it is not a good standard
14:08 < jrayhawk_> contrast, say, postscript, of which there are thousands of implementations of and the variances are sufficiently discrete that they can be tracked with a central repository of definition files
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15:06 <@fenn> jrayhawk_: i'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with "implementable" and more to do with tricksy business strategies attempting the "decommoditization of protocols"
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15:07  * Mokstar prepares for patch night.
15:14 < kanzure> is there a "bind to random port" in python's socket module?
15:16 < kanzure> blah 0 i knew that
15:16 < kanzure> :(
15:17 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:18 < kanzure> oh weird
15:19 < kanzure> so that works with socket.socket.bind but not gevent.server.StreamServer (which thinks that 0 is a valid port?).
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15:21 < kanzure> raise TypeError('Expected a socket instance or an address (tuple of 2 elements): %r' % (listener, ))
15:21 < kanzure> okay i guess i can just pass a socket.. thanks nodocs.
15:22 < dingo> there is such a real port, 0
15:23 < dingo> os implementation-defined
15:23 < dingo> its an important part of remote os fingerprinting
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15:28 < kanzure> that is inconvenient for me at the moment heh
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15:31 < ||0_-_0||> paperbot http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1874574
15:32 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Brain%20Structure%20and%20Functional%20Connectivity%20Associated%20With%20Pornography%20Consumption%3A%20The%20Brain%20on%20Porn.pdf
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16:08 < jrayhawk_> fenn: okay, then why doesn't amaya work either?
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16:12 < jrayhawk_> like that was the literal thought process behind it. "Everybody's implementing it wrong, we presume due to commercial incentives, so we'll just have to do it ourselves!" and it turns out that implementing an unimplementable set of standards requires infinite engineering effort
16:13 < jrayhawk_> so amaya is, in fact, even shittier than the commercial engines
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16:16 < joepie91__> kanzure: it's Python, nodocs is the norm
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16:29 < kanzure> it works
16:31 < gradstudentbot> Protip: the lab's attic hasn't been used since 1966. Pretty nice.
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16:32 < chris_99> is that where you live gradstudentbot
16:32 < gradstudentbot> Should this be on ice?
16:33 <@fenn> i've never used amaya, but judging by its screenshots it looks more like an editor than a browser
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17:18 < jrayhawk_> it was supposed to be a reference implementation
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17:53 < AshleyWaffle> https://imgur.com/gallery/VVSRo
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17:54 < streety> gradstudentbot: the attic is a nice place to stash a weights rack
17:54 < gradstudentbot> I'm making a flamingo cell culture, but first I need to capture a flamingo, are you in?
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17:58 < delinquentme> http://techcrunch.com/2014/05/30/this-algae-battery-could-power-a-tesla-with-200x-the-charge/
17:58 < delinquentme> can someone explain to me whats happening here?
18:01 < Mokstar> basically he wants to create algae-based eggsploseives
18:02 < seba-> delinquentme, i would say that the algae makes some gas
18:02 < seba-> which is then used in a fuel cell
18:03 < seba-> or maybe it uses quantum zero point energy of the vector scalar field
18:04  * Mokstar summons Thomas Bearden.
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18:21 <@fenn> AshleyWaffle: cool illustrations, maybe we can get their original drawings without the text for re-use
18:22 < AshleyWaffle> fenn: idk ask
18:24 <@fenn> do you think aaqucnaona is the artist?
18:24 < delinquentme> seba-, I"m not understanding anything there.  They mentioned a inline 9volt and something w the algae
18:24 < delinquentme> Are they just showing that the algae conducts electricity??
18:30 < ||0_-_0||> algae biosuits will allow you to have telepathic sex with sentient dolphins, delinquentme
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18:33 < kanzure> can't you already do that?
18:35 <@fenn> my secret plans have been ruined, ruined!
18:37 < kanzure> apparently there's a big difference between gevent 0.13.8 and 1.0.1
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18:46 < kanzure> hm the remote service returned: {"error": [-1, "maybeDeferred() argument after * must be a sequence, not NoneType", null], "id": 0, "result": null}
18:47 < kanzure> i'm gonna guess they are using twisted
18:47 < kanzure> poor souls
18:49 <@fenn> the illustrations seem to be from here: http://mariakonovalenko.wordpress.com/
18:56 <@fenn> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1134%2FS0006297913090137
18:57 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/899987ef8ae0557c3daeb6316ed6c056.txt
18:59 <@fenn> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1134%2FS0006297913090137.pdf
18:59 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/b9e5e9e3e67dd9278dc9bc8554cb1e9c.txt
19:02 <@fenn> paperbot: http://www.programmed-aging.org/theory-3/Katcher_heterochronic_plasma_exchange.pdf
19:02 < paperbot> TypeError: unicode() argument 2 must be string, not None (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/models.py", line 825, in text)
19:02 <@fenn> wtf, download it
19:03 < delinquentme> I"m a bit beside myself here because the article sounds like nobody knows what they're talking about.
19:03 < delinquentme> like its nothing novel.
19:03 < delinquentme> I'm not even sure how the algae is involved other than its shown in the background.
19:03 <@fenn> congratulations, you are developing critical thinking skills
19:05 < delinquentme> but fenn it pisses me off!
19:05 < delinquentme> This isn't news!
19:06 < delinquentme> Anyways ... a dude from anamyris added me on linked in ... specifically the guy from automated infrastructure
19:07 < delinquentme> Not sure how I want to open that convo yet.
19:09 <@fenn> delinquentme: try downworthy
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19:24 <@fenn> http://mariakonovalenko.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/roadmap_immortality_eng.pdf can anyone else see this pdf? it takes forever to load and gobbles up ram, lots of warning messages on the console..
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19:25 < kanzure> it's stealing all your doecoin
19:25 < kanzure> *dogecoin
19:26 <@fenn> i think it's just a humongously ginormous image
19:29 <@fenn> why are 1,734 people signed up to receive email from maria konovalenko's blog?
19:31 < ||0_-_0||> turchin
19:35 <@fenn> UFOs as global risk also doesn't seem like a hot topic
19:36 <@fenn> Rank: #5,350,829 in Books
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19:49 <@fenn> http://transhuman.ru/Projects  i wonder if "transhumanist organizations" are doomed to perpetual endless self-promotion media production
19:49 < gradstudentbot> Wow, I'm definitely not including this data in the paper.
19:49 <@fenn> at least KrioRus is something real
19:50 <@fenn> "2006-2012 the company was cryopreserved KrioRus 20 people, 4 dogs, 4 cats and cats and two birds.
19:50 <@fenn> makes it sound like they started wit people and advanced to cats and dogs
19:51 < kanzure> the russian transhumanist association members are, on average, slightly more aware of how crappy the community is, but their ideas about what to do about the situation are annoying
19:51 < kanzure> ("let's hold massive skype conference calls EVERY DAY about longevity, and invite 400 people")
19:53 < kanzure> caveat: my opinions were formed prior to the shitstorm that was their "2045" project ugh
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19:54 <@fenn> rofl it's san francisco in a box: http://style2030.ru/
19:54 < kanzure> i meant http://2045.ru/
19:55 <@fenn> i know. i'm looking at the list of projects transhuman.ru has done
19:55 < kanzure> they have a list!
19:55 <@fenn> LE WHAF - gaseous food
19:55 <@fenn> 16,000 rubles.
19:57 < kanzure> is writing to a socket the only way to know it's dead?
19:57 < ||0_-_0||> paperbot http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.0105-2896.2006.00391.x/abstract;jsessionid=5A8E958C247AC893216D7DBFC704D761.f01t03?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false
19:57 < kanzure> try not including hints like userIsAuthenticated=THEYARESTEALINGEVERYTHING
19:57 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/be18ceea8551338f8f43778b8500ccdd.txt
19:57 < ||0_-_0||> dammit need something to read on the train
19:57 < ||0_-_0||> paperbot http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev-immunol-032712-100008
19:57 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1146%2Fannurev-immunol-032712-100008
19:58 < delinquentme> fenn, this plugin.... lol
19:58 < ||0_-_0||> yuss
19:58 <@fenn> DEANONYMIZATION SUCCESSFUL
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20:05 <@fenn> anyone heard of "Life strategy of creative person" (LSCP/ЖСТЛ) by creator of TRIZ?
20:06  * kanzure plugs fenn into a socket
20:06 <@fenn> the socket is dead
20:08 <@fenn> hm. "seminar" blargh
20:09 <@fenn> i'm going to start licensing all my creations under a "do anything you want except give seminars and certification certificates"
20:09 <@fenn> license*
20:11 < kanzure> hard to see you writing licenses
20:12 <@fenn> i'll fork the wtfpl
20:13 -!- Adifex is now known as night
20:14 < kanzure> "Not to be included in Soviet patent literature"
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20:17 <@fenn> did you know Genrich Altshuller was a soviet patent examiner?
20:17 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20:19 <@fenn> i can't tell if these wikipedia articles were auto-translated or i just need to go to sleep
20:19 < kanzure> whonow
20:19 < kanzure> russian wikipedia is pretty interesting, it's not just translations
20:20 < kanzure> it's glorious alternate history that actually happened
20:20 <@fenn> "The laws of technical systems evolution are the most general evolution trends for technical systems discovered by TRIZ author G. S. Altshuller after reviewing thousands USSR invention authorship certificates and foreign patent abstracts.
20:20 <@fenn> Altshuller studied the way technical systems have been invented, developed and improved over time."
20:20 < kanzure> "thousands of USSR invention authorship certificates".. aka all of tem
20:20 < kanzure> *them
20:21 < kanzure> i wonder when it will be quicker to read all patents than it would be to read all pages on wikipedia
20:21 <@fenn> TRIZ is a set of abstract domain-cross-cutting techniques that can be used to get unstuck
20:21 < kanzure> it's already less time than reading the internet
20:21 < kanzure> oh yeah, it was one of those silly graph grid matrix systems
20:22 < kanzure> that they throw at "innovation parties" where you fall into a pool or get caught because of trust lessons
20:22 <@fenn> i think of it more like zen koans
20:22 < kanzure> hm
20:22 < kanzure> "It won't work."
20:22 < kanzure> #2 is "Really."
20:22 <@fenn> "do not try to solve the problem, only realize the truth."
20:23 <@fenn> #3 is "why are you still reading"?
20:23 < kanzure> "there are no gears, only interferences and non-interferences"
20:23 < kanzure> professor of triangles
20:24 < kanzure> *hexagons
20:24 <@fenn> permutohedrons
20:24 -!- AshleyWaffle [~waffle@gateway/tor-sasl/anastasiawyatt] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer]
20:24 <@fenn> 999/1000 american high school students don't know what a cuboctahedron is
20:26 <@fenn> polytope or isotope?
20:26 <@fenn> polymer or isomer?
20:28 < kanzure> .title http://vimeo.com/93042377
20:29 < yoleaux> Pulley Logic Gates on Vimeo
20:29 < kanzure> .title https://www.flickr.com/photos/10242956@N05/sets/72157644097414107/
20:29 < yoleaux> un album sur Flickr
20:29 < kanzure> .title http://www.amazon.com/lm/R31DNEOS39TWP7/ref=cm_lm_pthnk_view?ie=UTF8&lm_bb=
20:29 < yoleaux> Amazon.com: Pulley Logic Gates Stuff
20:30 <@fenn> is there a flickr un-fuckr?
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20:52 < kanzure> i emailed my patent reform proposal https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/openmanufacturing/vS4ju1VqXb0
20:55 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SudixyugiX4
20:55 < yoleaux> Domino Domino Logic
20:55 < kanzure> domino half-adder http://imgur.com/a/qq7Kl
20:56 < kanzure> "I accidentally knocked down the 2-bit which led to knocking down the 4-bit as well, but it did successfully lead to knocking down the two 1-bit inputs, so I considered it a success and didn't try to get it set up again."
20:56 < kanzure> hahah
20:56 < kanzure> he should have blamed the cat
20:58 <@fenn> grants of limited monopoly exist, see i.e. the FDA granting exclusive marketing rights
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21:00 <@fenn> also, from what i can tell, the patent office doesn't expend any efforts on evaluating the technology content of the patent applications
21:00 <@fenn> also, this doesn't really fix anything
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21:01 < kanzure> "grants of limited monopoly exist" .. yes, specifically patents. duh?
21:01 < kanzure> of course it fixes things
21:01 <@fenn> patent owners should be the ones to pay the "intellectual property tax" because they are denying the right to use that property to the commons
21:01 < kanzure> now you're not sued for building your hexagons
21:02 < kanzure> yes patent owners should pay that tax. absolutely.
21:02 < kanzure> but paying that tax and also killing homeless people for driving around in hexagons is even worse.
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21:02 <@fenn> the way you wrote it, it sounds like the tax goes TO the patent owner
21:02 < kanzure> yes, it does
21:03 < kanzure> and that's what i intended, although it was a throw-away aspect of the proposal
21:03 < kanzure> at the moment, the patent owners get money becaues of patent licensing deals
21:03 < kanzure> *because
21:03 <@fenn> was the goal of this proposal to be absurdly awful? (proof by negation or something?)
21:04 < kanzure> the goal of the proposal was to stop the harmful impacts of patents on technology
21:04 < kanzure> patents (grants) have very very little to do with technology, in theory
21:04 < kanzure> in practice, everyone has attached the concept of invention to patnets
21:04 < kanzure> *patents
21:05 <@fenn> monopoly rights are for incentivizing business
21:05 < kanzure> haha
21:05 <@fenn> everyone assumes you need a business to make technology
21:05 < kanzure> no the usual argument is "they are for incentivizing the $400 billion dollar investment required to make anyone do anything"
21:05 <@fenn> same thing
21:05 < kanzure> many many businesses don't even have a single patent
21:06 < kanzure> business wouldn't stop, heh
21:06 <@fenn> don't ask me, man
21:06 <@fenn> lawyers gonna legislate
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21:07 < kanzure> do you know the names of people who have proposed "patents should be taxed as property" ?
21:07 < kanzure> i guess it's sorta obvious, since it says property in the name
21:08 <@fenn> no, i don't
21:08 <@fenn> there is no law or constitution describing intellectual property
21:09 < kanzure> http://patentlyo.com/patent/2012/05/how-many-us-patents-are-in-force.html
21:09 <@fenn> it's a fiction designed to confuse people such as lawmakers into believing that businesses have "property rights" over intangibles
21:09 < kanzure> "By my calculations, there are about 2.1 million US patents in-force (as of May 1, 2012)."
21:10 <@fenn> property tax isn't a solution to the problem, it just cuts out the bottom 50 percent of crap patents
21:11 < kanzure> i agree that taxing technology inventions isn't a solution
21:11 < kanzure> it doesn't solve any of the interesting problems
21:11 < kanzure> "In total, U.S. intellectual property is estimated to be approximately $5.5 trillion -- greater in value than the entire GDP of any other nation"
21:11 <@fenn> mandatory licensing also doesn't solve the problem
21:11 < kanzure> okay let's assume that's $5 trillion, and attribute it to the 2 million patents in force, and also assume that the expired patents have some incalculable value, and that this does not include copyrights/trademarks
21:11 < kanzure> .wa 5 trillion / 2 million
21:11 <@fenn> oh yeah well Fennistan has $5.6 trillion in intangible intangibleness
21:12 < yoleaux> 5000000000000/2000000: 2500000; Quotient and remainder: 2500000×2000000+0; Number name: 2 million 500 thousand; Number line: http://is.gd/m4aU8d; Number length: 7 decimal digits; Pie chart: http://is.gd/BZy8pc
21:12 < kanzure> $2.5M/patent haha... of course, it's a power law distribution
21:12 <@fenn> you can still calculate it with a power law distribution
21:12 < kanzure> oh yeah, another good number is google paying $4B for motorola's 17k patents.
21:13 < kanzure> .wa 4 billion / 170000
21:13 < yoleaux> 4000000000/170000: 400000/17; Decimal approximation: 23529.41176470588235294117647058823529411764705882352941176470...; Repeating decimal: 23529.4117647058823529^_ (period 16); Mixed fraction: 23529 7/17; Quotient and remainder: 23529×170000+70000; Number line: http://is.gd/2HQj4h; Pie chart: http://is.gd/I5VNY4; Prime factorization: 2⁷×5⁵×17⁽⁻¹⁾; Continued fraction: [23529; 2, 2, 3]; Egyptian fraction expansion:  …
21:13 < yoleaux> 23529 + 1/3+1/13+1/663
21:13 <@fenn> they also bought a brand, product line, engineering staff, etc.
21:13 < kanzure> no i think that was the itemized number
21:13 < kanzure> $12.5B total
21:14 <@fenn> that's a lot of money
21:15 <@fenn> motorola strikes me as the sort of company that would have valuable patents, so those numbers don't add up
21:15 <@fenn> by about 2 orders of magnitude
21:16 < kanzure> yeah i think they have all the government radio contracts and patents, right?
21:16 < kanzure> or did freescale get that part of the business?
21:16 <@fenn> is spectrum allocation "intellectual property"?
21:17 < kanzure> dunno :\
21:17 <@fenn> i mean i have a hard time discerning the difference between "you can't broadcast with this frequency hopping algorithm" vs "you can't broadcast on this frequency"
21:18 < gradstudentbot> The thing about this particular theory is that it's excellent at predicting ethnic conflicts which have already happened.
21:18 <@fenn> thank you gradstudentbot
21:18 < gradstudentbot> That's not really surprising since they did it ex vivo.
21:19 <@fenn> never forget the great patent wars
21:20  * fenn takes a 12 hour nap
21:22 < kanzure> .title http://mises.org/daily/3682
21:22 < yoleaux> The Case Against IP: A Concise Guide
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21:37 < delinquentme> Apologies-ish for a feels post ... but this keeps absolutely frying my mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe0igW8jNyU
21:37 < kanzure> .title
21:37 < yoleaux> GUY MARTIN 275Kmh Speed Wobble ★HD★ - Isle of Man TT - SURREAL ✔
21:37 < kanzure> .d wobble
21:37 < yoleaux> wobble (/ˈwɒb(ə)l/): v. Move or cause to move unsteadily from side to side: the table ⁓s where the leg is too short; n. An unsteady movement from side to side: the handlebars developed a ⁓ — http://is.gd/S3gCwc
21:38 < delinquentme> Not sure if you guys are into it ... but some of the shots where they're showing these guys hurtling through corners and just hugging roads to the point where the rider / bike / rear swingarm / road all just integrate
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21:40 < delinquentme> kanzure, you should watch it :D
21:40 < delinquentme> inspiration to work on getting respawns.
21:42 < gradstudentbot> I did so much qPCR today.
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21:53 < kanzure> "microsoft real-time language translation for skype" hmm
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22:06 < kanzure> google alerts sent me 10 emails at midnight (for once)
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22:13 < delinquentme> libgen runs on a windows server :D
22:15 < kanzure> gene_hacker: hi
22:15 < gene_hacker> who would've known
22:16 < gene_hacker> no wonder it is so slow...
22:16 < kanzure> gene_hacker: http://patentsdb.su/
22:16 < kanzure> oops
22:16 < kanzure> http://patentdb.su/
22:17 < gene_hacker> ???
22:17 < kanzure> soviet patents
22:17 < gene_hacker> sweet, now I can be like Altshuller and go reinvent TRIZ
22:17 < kanzure> are you reading the logs
22:18 < kanzure> because we were TRIZing a few hours ago
22:19 < delinquentme> http://genofond.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6386&p=47950#p47950
22:23 < gene_hacker> so how do you use it?
22:24 < gene_hacker> the search function doesn't seem to work well
22:25 < kanzure> 1) make a copy of the whole site (wget -m) because it probably wont stay up forever
22:25 < kanzure> 2) learn to read russian heh
22:25 < gene_hacker> well I think I know the patent number
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22:32 < kanzure> gene_hacker: patent number for which?
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22:32 < gene_hacker> looks like it's just an application though
22:34 < kanzure> nmz787_i: if you ever go south in oregon you should meet gene_hacker
22:35 < gene_hacker> portland?
22:35 < kanzure> yes
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23:07 < jrayhawk_> isle of man is pretty cool for car culture's sake. the world needs more ludicrously dangerous street circuits.
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--- Log closed Sat May 31 00:00:20 2014