--- Log opened Wed Jun 18 00:00:38 2014
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07:10 < kanzure> https://github.com/wltrimbl/thumbnailpolish "scripts to visualize the thumbnail images from illumina sequencing machines"
07:10 < kanzure> recursive docker-within-docker https://github.com/dgageot/fiboid
07:12 < kanzure> "NPAPI plugin for Chrome and Firefox that exposes fun VR devices" https://github.com/benvanik/vr.js
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08:22 < justanotheruser> Would SKDB automatically buy your product from online stores?
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09:59 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=73d94953 DavidCary: Other discussions of various CAD packages >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/cadfaq/
10:15 < kanzure> justanotheruser: would be nice
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10:24 < kanzure> his contact for someone selling him the tubing is azco biotech...
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10:32 < kanzure> 100 pack of 1000 angstrom CPG columns for $350 http://azcobiotech.com/reagents/CPGCol.php
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10:44 < chris_99> don't spose anyone knows whether anyone can buy medical grade oxygen in the UK per chance
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10:56 < seba-> chris_99 why do you need it
10:57 < chris_99> oxygenation during fermentation, apparently you could get away with industrial, possibly
10:58 < seba-> chris_99, you can make it via electrolysis?
10:59 < seba-> also industrial would work ok imo
10:59 < chris_99> yeah it probably work actually
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11:24 < kanzure> haha brlcad has no way to render an image in their library
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11:32 < ParahSailin> typical air contains about 200 mbar partial pressure of oxygen
11:34 < seba-> ParahSailin not where i am!
11:34 < ParahSailin> nepal?
11:36 < seba-> ParahSailin, no, here it's ~198 mbar on average, it's because of the altitude!
11:36 < seba-> :p
11:37 < seba-> oh well it's not such a difference :-(
11:37 < seba-> i thought it's more
11:37 < seba-> i can thou measure the difference
11:37 < seba-> in boiling of water
11:37 < seba-> it doesn't boil at 100 C
11:38 < kanzure> where did all this come from https://github.com/raj12lnm/python-brlcad/commits/master
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11:39 < gradstudentbot> My experiment was working a second ago, but now it doesn't even work.
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11:49 < nmz787_i> hmm, I really want one of these http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/product-DPTS1/?PID=I:digitalpaper:digitalpaperproductpage
11:49 < nmz787_i> wish their price was 1/2 or 1/4
11:49 < nmz787_i> I have the opportunity to get one or two though
11:50 < nmz787_i> so I wonder if they fail to become a mass-available product, if I don't get one now, I may never
11:50 < chris_99> is it colour
11:51 < chris_99> oh apparently not
11:52 < ParahSailin> im sure if you wait, youll get something even better
11:53 < chris_99> mm fancy colour electrowetting displays should come out soooon
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11:58 < nmz787_i> i care only about the size, and the ability to zoom PDFs in a smooth manner
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12:26 < kanzure> synthesizer is shipped
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12:36 < nmz787_i> schweet
12:37 < kanzure> i think we can buy all the chemicals from azco biotech
12:37 < kanzure> but the 6 weeks lifetime seems really really annoying
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12:39 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, there's a clear trend.
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12:42 < ParahSailin> phosphoramidite has that bad of shelf life?
12:45 < kanzure> nope, the phosphoramidite is distributed as a powder
12:45 < kanzure> and has longer shelf life
12:46 < kanzure> ammonium hydroxide has the "don't use after 2 weeks after opening" warning
12:46 < kanzure> in the manual
12:47 < kanzure> "Phosphoramidites are stable in powder form for one year and should be stored at room temperature in a desiccator. Once they are dissolved, they should be used within approximately two weeks. After this time, coupling efficiencies may decrease. If they cannot be used within this time, you can freeze, store, thaw and then reuse the phosphoramidites. However, they may show a loss of activity."
12:47 < ParahSailin> weird, ammonia must spontaneously turn into hydrazine or something, i better flush all my cleaning products down the toilet before they explode
12:48 < kanzure> ammonium hydroxide must also be stored at 4 celsius
12:49 < kanzure> "Since all phosphoramidite reservoirs are pressurized simultaneously with a single valve, all five bottles must be attached to the instrument, even if some are empty, to perform a synthesis. Phosphoramidites are extremely sensitive to acid, oxygen and water. Once they are in solution and the protective cap is removed, quickly put them on the instrument to prevent contamination."
12:50 < kanzure> acid, oxygen and water, might as well be sensitive to being looked at funny
12:50 < kanzure> "quickly put them on the instrument" lolz
12:50 < ParahSailin> sounds like an iron foundry
12:51 < ParahSailin> if you arent utilizing it at full capacity, best not to run it at all
12:51 < kanzure> that does not sound like a good way to prevent contamination
12:51 < ParahSailin> idt is the iron foundry
12:52 < kanzure> just think, this was all a nobel prize
12:53 < kanzure> for the 2 liters of "hazardous organic liquid waste" every 4 hours
12:53 < kanzure> i wonder if there was a nobel prize for the oil refinery
12:53 < kanzure> i demand it
12:55 < ParahSailin> oh, now i understand why inosine costs so much at idt
12:55 < kanzure> ""Upon opening the bottle, quickly place it on the instrument. Use in a well ventilated area and avoid inhalation. Store at room temperature.""
12:56 < kanzure> "Acetic anhydride-lutidine-tetrahydrofuran (THF), (1:1:8) is one half of the capping reagent. Atmospheric water will reduce its efficiency."
12:57 < kanzure> bad news... i'm pretty sure atmospheric water is impossible to completely get rid of.
12:57 < ParahSailin> do they tell you to store it with molecule sieves?
12:57 < kanzure> "This device is best operated in the vacuum  of space."
12:58 < kanzure> better get some meth gas masks to operate this thing
12:59 < ParahSailin> lutidine smells like death
12:59 < kanzure> docs http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/DNA/abi391/
13:00 < ParahSailin> better that you sent this death machine to nmz787_i
13:01 < ParahSailin> i do not have the necessary supply of forsaken children to use as the power source
13:01 < kanzure> that's okay, he'll get a cool biography titled "phosphoramidites i have known and loved"
13:02 < kanzure> (aren't i clever?)
13:03 < ParahSailin> too soon
13:03 < jrayhawk_> haha
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13:20 < kanzure> what's the difference between ctypes.c_voidp and ctypes.c_void_p?
13:23 < kanzure> nevermind, neither work for my situation
13:26 < ParahSailin> c_voidp = c_void_p # backwards compatibility (to a bug)
13:26 < kanzure> Segmentation fault, yo
13:27 < ParahSailin> http://svn.python.org/projects/external/ctypes/ctypes/__init__.py
13:34 < ParahSailin> paperbot: http://jls.sagepub.com/content/early/2014/04/03/0261927X14528804
13:34 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/A%20Few%20Prolific%20Liars%20Variation%20in%20the%20Prevalence%20of%20Lying.pdf
13:35 < kanzure> what is the criteria of prolific lying?
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13:41 < kanzure> huh, 10 lies/day puts you in top 1% of liars
13:42 < kanzure> i wonder if you can count the same lie twice
13:44 < ParahSailin> no, thats double jeopardy
13:44 < nmz787_i> yeah I'm pretty sure we can't afford to actually run that 391 as-is
13:45 < kanzure> do the math before concluding that
13:45 < nmz787_i> subprocess is crashing my program, even though I have it in a try except
13:45 < nmz787_i> :/
13:45 < kanzure> use sh
13:46 < kanzure> terrible name, but ok library
13:46 < kanzure> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/sh
13:46 < ParahSailin> subprocess isnt crashing it; you are
13:48 < kanzure> hrm he hasn't done much since merging in my stuff https://github.com/amoffat/sh/commits/master
13:50 < kanzure> argh this guy needs to split up his pull requests :( https://github.com/kanzure/pokecrystal/pull/256/files
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14:02 < catern> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167577X13006538
14:03 < catern> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167577X13006538
14:03 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/56253bfde47aa367ca29b872bc50577b.txt
14:05 < ParahSailin> oh sweet i have lots of goat hair
14:05 < kanzure> yeah there was another weird paper the other day about using yarn for microfluidics
14:06 < catern> so does paperbot's scrapers all live on university networks where they can scrape papers?
14:06 < kanzure> but i'm not sure how you're supposed to weave that tiny
14:06 < kanzure> paperbot travels through a transdimensional portal to a universe where papers are easily accessed
14:06 < catern> ah that is much simpler
14:06 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot
14:06 < catern> clever to do that
14:07 < ParahSailin> catern is actually willing to provide a vm behind a paywall for us
14:07 < catern> I saw, but I still don't get it
14:07 < catern> oh, yeah, I am
14:07 < kanzure> hm, at the moment paperbot does not have the ability to abuse that arrangement
14:07 < kanzure> but it is worth adding
14:11 < catern> well if it develops that capability, this is a standing offer
14:12 < ParahSailin> i would do a kickstarter to make paperbot work
14:12 < ParahSailin> money is probably the only thing that would make me care enough to finish the job
14:12 < catern> it would be nice to have an automated process to scrape things direct to libgen or wherever
14:13 < ParahSailin> thats what was intended
14:13 < catern> ah
14:13 < kanzure> kickstarter is a bad idea
14:13 < kanzure> you don't want that much attention
14:13 < kanzure> if you need money just fucking ask argh
14:14 < kanzure> but also, i'm paying dpk to do paperbot things
14:14 < kanzure> and joepie91__
14:14 < kanzure> i forgot about those two for a moment
14:14 < ParahSailin> oh
14:14 < ParahSailin> still id rather have money from suckers instead
14:15 < ParahSailin> because i wouldnt feel so bad that it could have been used better
14:15 < catern> attention is useful, though, so you can "crowdsource" the scraping and make it go faster/safer
14:15 < catern> you want some attention at some point
14:15 < catern> (Maybe?????)
14:16 < kanzure> if you get attention then the universities cut you off
14:16 < kanzure> i had a small android proxy app at some point, but you still have to do centralized communication with some server (possibly over tor)
14:16 < catern> ah... that is a lot easier way to block it, hm
14:17 < kanzure> if you say you're downloading from university of utah, they will just block you
14:17 < kanzure> and putting it on kickstarter is a good way to get noticed
14:17 < catern> that sure would be dystopian, though. universities blocking access to a website with papers
14:17 < kanzure> the android proxy idea was so that students could arbitrarily run the app themselves
14:17 < kanzure> and then get paid in bitcoin from an anonymous service
14:17 < catern> people will do it voluntarily
14:17 < kanzure> universities constantly block people downloading papers
14:18 < gradstudentbot> I really like him, but some of his work is really problematic.
14:18 < catern> yeah, but you're suggesting they might block access to the server they're uploading to.
14:18 < catern> scary to think of my uni blocking libgen
14:18 < kanzure> libgen will get blocked above the university level
14:18 < kanzure> dns level etc
14:19 < catern> well, anyway, there's an easy middle ground. i'm sure many people would be willing to run a drop-in VM image on a university network
14:20 < kanzure> if you are going to disturb the hornet nest, you should have a better plan than (1) publicly stating your name, (2) publicly stating who you're going to attack, and (3) putting it in front of 100's of thousands of people who will turn around and inform the publishers ("because it's stealing")
14:20 < catern> and that way you can avoid downloading at such a high rate to be suspicious
14:20 < catern> or just an application
14:21 < catern> so don't publicly state your name or who you'll attack
14:21 < kanzure> iirc there has never been an anonymous kickstarter campaign
14:21 < pasky> i could host something too i guess
14:21 < catern> oh, i wasn't thinking you'd actually use kickstarter
14:21 < kanzure> you fucking said kickstarter :(
14:21 < catern> there are plenty of self-hostable clones
14:21 < catern> ParahSailin said kickstarter!
14:22 < kanzure> oh, well fuck him too then
14:22 < ParahSailin> i recuse myself
14:22 < catern> i don't know why technical projects use kickstarter
14:22 < kanzure> because it's an advertising channel
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14:22 < nmz787_i> kanzure: shame on you for recommending things I can't use "if "windows" in platform.system().lower():
14:22 < nmz787_i>     raise ImportError("sh %s is currently only supported on linux and osx. \
14:22 < nmz787_i> please install pbs 0.110 (http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pbs) for windows \
14:22 < nmz787_i> support." % __version__)
14:22 < nmz787_i> "
14:22 < catern> does it really have network effects? but there are so many clones
14:22 < kanzure> nmz787_i: shame on you for using windows, that's your own fault
14:23 < kanzure> catern: kickstarter.com definitely has huge network effects
14:23 < ParahSailin> nmz787_i: whats wrong with subprocess
14:23 < kanzure> catern: indiegogo is pathetic in comparison
14:23 < catern> jesus kickstarter is 5%? i thought it was like 1%
14:23 < catern> kanzure: i guess i just can't visualize the kind of person who regularly browses kickstarter
14:23 < kanzure> redditor
14:24 < kanzure> easily distracted by helvetica
14:24 < kanzure> and youtube videos
14:24 < catern> but they actually go to kickstarter, the site itself? not just individual projects?
14:24 < catern> anyway
14:24 < kanzure> there's been studies on that
14:24 < catern> ah?
14:25 < kanzure> people go back to check on the previous projects they funded, it shows other projects to them based on their interests
14:25 < catern> ahhhh
14:25 < kanzure> if you're trending then you show up on their category views
14:25 < catern> i've never funded anything so I wouldn't know
14:25 < kanzure> i think at least 20% is from previous users
14:25 < kanzure> still need to have a campaign to get users and traffic flowing to your page though
14:26 < kanzure> (this usually means terrible press releases and paying off journalists)
14:26 < catern> anyway I can totally see even a self-hosted kickstarter-style campaign getting massive traction, lots of people want to get access to papers
14:26 < kanzure> you also have to make sure you fund 10% of it on your own within the first 5-30 minutes
14:26 < kanzure> i don't remember any self-hosted crowdfunding campaign that raised any significant amount of money, ever
14:26 < kanzure> (crowdfunding blows man)
14:26 < catern> there's been some games
14:27 < catern> mediagoblin recently
14:27 < kanzure> were those pre-orders
14:27 < catern> not very significant
14:27 < catern> well, yeah
14:27 < kanzure> :smug:
14:27 < catern> i think i will start a startup
14:27 < catern> and apply to YC
14:27 < kanzure> anyway, i'll try not to discourage you too much from putting together your own campaign
14:27 < kanzure> for stealing papers from universities?
14:27 < catern> and our product will be a
14:27 < catern> paper-stealer
14:27 < catern> yes
14:28 < catern> i wonder if you could legitimize it somehow
14:28 < ParahSailin> mega's plausible deniability strategy seems like it might stand up in some courts
14:28 < catern> because there's a huge demand
14:28 < kanzure> findrs fees
14:28 < kanzure> *finders fees
14:28 < kanzure> mendeley legitimized it
14:29 < kanzure> and somehow researchgate is doing the same thing
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14:29 < gradstudentbot> I am kind of curious what he has a Ph.D. in, I can't really find this anywhere, it could be underwater basket weaving for all I know.
14:29 < kanzure> they are probably doing the "author of the paper shares it" strategy
14:29 < catern> you can get random papers off mendeley?
14:30 < kanzure> not anymore haha
14:30 < kanzure> used to
14:30 < kanzure> mendeley was uploading all your papers to their servers
14:30 < kanzure> "for ocr metadata reasons"
14:30 < catern> someone needs to re-legitimize it then
14:30 < catern> get a few mil in VC funding
14:30 < catern> run for a few years
14:30 < catern> then go out in a blaze of lawsuits
14:31 < kanzure> and why would they give you money
14:31 < ParahSailin> serial bankruptcy is how lots of people get money
14:31 < joepie91__> because intellectual synergy cloud reprioritization strategy acquisition
14:31 < joepie91__> pls2gief money
14:32 < joepie91__> (that seems to work for most VC-funded stuff)
14:32 < kanzure> there is often strategy that they don't reveal to the public
14:32 < joepie91__> kanzure: you mean like HSBC funding drug cartels? :P
14:33 < kanzure> hsbc drug cartels wasn't venture capital fundraising
14:33 < kanzure> argh wtf
14:34 < kanzure> another plausible answer to "why would they give you money" is "because we'll make them a crapload of money by doing x"
14:34 < catern> maybe just persuade one of the PDF upload sites to have proper indexing and paper-finding whatever stuff
14:35 < catern> advertisements on papers
14:35 < catern> advertisements inserted between every 5 pages of the PDFs
14:35 < kanzure> some of the publishers are doing advertisements on papers
14:35 < kanzure> pdfparanoia strips them out :) (at least one publisher's ads, at least)
14:36 < gradstudentbot> These findings indicate that extensive genetic engineering of human hematopoiesis can be achieved with lentiviral vectors.
14:36 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/pdfparanoia
14:36 < nmz787_i> ParahSailin: using pythonw to open a .py file which calls subprocess.Popen with PIPEs, this process then calls subprocess.Popen
14:37 < nmz787_i> ParahSailin:  the first time the first subprocess child calls subprocess.Popen ti works, the second time it crashes
14:37 < ParahSailin> crashes how
14:37 < nmz787_i> ParahSailin: http://pastebin.com/kzBzHttP
14:37 < nmz787_i> ParahSailin: crashes and doesn't hit the except, seemingly
14:38 < nmz787_i> as I over-rode sys.stderr and sys.stdout to also print to to a file
14:38 < joepie91__> kanzure: I was joking :)
14:38 < nmz787_i> so even though the GUI crashes... I thought I'd still retain the errors
14:38 < joepie91__> catern: PDF upload site operator here, what do you need
14:38 < kanzure> joepie91__: lots of people honestly hold that opinion
14:38 < nmz787_i> but they aren't making it to the file
14:38 < joepie91__> kanzure: Poe's law
14:38 < joepie91__> :P
14:38 < nmz787_i> and strangely the pythonw.exe lingers
14:39 < gradstudentbot> I need to send that abstract.
14:39 < ParahSailin> use the strace
14:41 < catern> joepie91__: some way to make sure the ripped PDFs on your site don't go away when you do
14:41 < gradstudentbot> Can I get some more media?
14:41 < catern> joepie91__: also a generic interface would be nice too
14:41 < joepie91__> catern: my site auto-mirrors all public docs to IA on an hourly cronjob
14:41 < joepie91__> http://pdf.yt/
14:42 < ParahSailin> (do all serious windows work on cygwin)
14:42 < joepie91__> as for generic interface, what do you mean?
14:42 < kanzure> ParahSailin: yeah, at this point windows is too annoying for me without cygwin
14:42 < kanzure> ParahSailin: even if i end up calling windows binaries, still..
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14:42 < catern> joepie91__: like the libgens, they're all identical and interchangeable so when one goes down no-one cares. hmm, does libgen have an API?
14:43 < ParahSailin> libgen is russian php
14:43 < joepie91__> I think they offer dumps
14:43 < joepie91__> or did so in the past, anyway
14:43 < ParahSailin> does the kalashnikov have an api?
14:43 < catern> i have wanted to upload things to libgen
14:43 < catern> but could not find out how
14:43 < joepie91__> but yeah, libgen is more of a paper/book hosting service, PDFy is more of a generic PDF hostt
14:44 < joepie91__> host *
14:44 < joepie91__> though I'm looking into ODT/EPUB support in the long term
14:44 < kanzure> not dumps, torrents
14:44 < kanzure> which nobody seeds
14:44 < ParahSailin> catern: see paperbot in github for how to upload
14:44 < kanzure> because who has time to seed 12 TB of torrents
14:44  * bkero raises hand
14:44 < kanzure> well go do it
14:45 < bkero> Assuming good saturation I can do it in a little bit over a day.
14:45 < catern> ParahSailin: well I think I did find out but my PDF was too big for their public api or something
14:45 < joepie91__> bkero: I think the saturation was a problem
14:45 < joepie91__> :p
14:45 < kanzure> there's only one seeder
14:45 < kanzure> has been for years
14:45 < bkero> oh, huh
14:45 < kanzure> everyone else has been too lazy
14:45 < bkero> Wait, 12TB torrent. What is it?
14:45  * joepie91__ doesn't have 12TB space
14:45 < kanzure> no, about 1000 torrents, a total of 12 TB
14:46 < bkero> oh
14:46 < catern> clerical data
14:46 < kanzure> each one is about 10,000 pdfs
14:47 < catern> bittorrent is a nice protocol for distributed shared immutable files
14:47 < catern> i.e. exactly this
14:47 < catern> er
14:47 < catern> distributed shared is repeating myself repetitively
14:47 < kanzure> i would say it's only good if people actually seed it
14:47 < kanzure> so, go seed it yourself
14:49 < catern> bittorrent just needs better tooling so people can seed the PDFs they download without having to keep them in the same place or with the same name
14:49 < kanzure> huh?
14:50 < kanzure> so you mean "people should invent symlinks" ?
14:50 < catern> yes
14:50 < bkero> or hardlinks
14:51 < catern> hm, does inotify tell you when a file is moved, and where it moves?
14:51 < catern> or
14:51 < catern> yeah
14:51 < bkero> If you just keep the torrent daemon running, you can move the file and it will still seed
14:51 < kanzure> moving files around sounds like an extremely unrelated issue
14:51 < catern> or just hardlinks
14:51 < bkero> since it keeps the fd open
14:52 < catern> so, then. someone needs to write a tiny bit of glue code that hardlinks your libgen pdfs together, grouped by torrent
14:52 < catern> in directories, i mean
14:53 < gradstudentbot> Who got mustard on my cell culture?
14:53 < catern> bkero: but what happens when you restart
14:53 < catern> kanzure: i'm just saying why i personally don't send all the libgen pdfs i have on my system
14:53 < kanzure> you think that the lack of the glue code is the reason why nobody is seeding?
14:53 < catern> seed*
14:53 < joepie91__> I should probably mention here that popcorn time does a similar thing for streaming video, and it got the MPAA pretty scared
14:53 < catern> it's why i'm not seeding
14:53 < kanzure> *that's* the reason why you're not seeding??
14:53 < catern> yes, it's too much effort
14:53 < joepie91__> catern: FWIW, some clients like Tixati let you move the file from the client interface itself
14:53 < catern> i'd have to figure out which PDF is from which torrent
14:54 < joepie91__> and it'll happily continue seeding from the new location
14:54 < kanzure> that's the silliest reason i have heard :)
14:54 < joepie91__> (or even change the location after the fact, and it'll pick up on the original file that's already there)
14:54 < catern> which would be a pain
14:54 < bkero> catern: why would you restart?
14:55 < catern> bkero: because Big Publishing found a linux 0day and they're coming after your box
14:56 < bkero> catern: Okay. I'll take those chances.
14:56 < joepie91__> if you're bored, write a graphical frontend that lets you search libgen for documents, and then automatically seeds them as you download them
14:56 < joepie91__> problem solved
14:56 < kanzure> .title http://torrent.rus.ec/viewforum.php?f=186
14:56 < yoleaux> Библиотека 'Либрусек' (Официальные релизы) :: torrent.rus.ec
14:56 < joepie91__> (partially seeded torrents are a thing)
14:56 < catern> that's what I'm suggesting, except without the graphical frontend
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14:56 < bkero> joepie91__: didn't someone get prosecuted and hounded until he committed suicide for similar behavior?
14:57 < catern> since you can just hash your downloaded pdfs to find out which pdf they correspond to in the torrent
14:57 < joepie91__> bkero: can't recall that
14:57 < catern> it doesn't sound too hard, actually
14:57 < kanzure> bkero: no, aaronsw didn't reach the stage of prosecution iirc
14:57 < catern> i wish libgen wasn't so russian
14:57 < kanzure> what's wrong with russian
14:57 < bkero> kanzure: the hounding stage?
14:57 < catern> i would like to read their forums and stuff
14:58 < kanzure> learn some fucking russian, don't be a baby
14:58  * joepie91__ doesn't see what aaron has to do with above proposal?
14:58 < kanzure> joepie91__: bkero mentioned him
14:58 < ParahSailin> the letters are just greek with some hairy bits
14:58 < catern> english-language chauvinism has served me well so far
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14:58 < joepie91__> yes, I'm refering to [23:57] <bkero> joepie91__: didn't someone get prosecuted and hounded until he committed suicide for similar behavior?
14:58 < joepie91__> there's a pretty big difference between writing a graphical frontend, and mass-downloading documents
14:58 < kanzure> русский язык, как сладкий запах навоза
14:59 < joepie91__> even if both are morally absolutely okay, they're not the same kind of thing
14:59 < kanzure> agreed
14:59 < joepie91__> and likely won't trigger the same kind of response
14:59 < kanzure> "with some hairy bits" haha
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15:03 < catern> is there a place that has all the torrent files rather than magnet links for libgen?
15:03 < kanzure> it's on one of the servers by ftp
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15:20 < kanzure> if you find it, drop the link
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15:32 < joepie91__> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/28h3z6/us_government_accidentally_reveals_private/
15:32 < joepie91__> "oops"
15:32 < kanzure> .tell nmz787 alltronics stuff has shipped
15:32 < yoleaux> kanzure: I'll pass your message to nmz787.
15:33 < kanzure> joepie91__: neat trick, although i htink it's a public list (e.g., not the people that have paid $200k? not sure)
15:33 < kanzure> it may be the "sign up for announcements" list
15:33 < joepie91__> I think that's exactly what it was.
15:33 < joepie91__> lol
15:44 < kanzure> .tell nmz787 alltronics shipping charges cost more than the synthesizer shipping charges
15:44 < yoleaux> kanzure: I'll pass your message to nmz787.
15:46 < nmz787_i> huh
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16:01 < kanzure> hm there's a python-librtlsdr and pyrtlsdr http://sdr.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/rtl-sdr
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16:15 < kanzure> someone is claiming lildlper is doing 37 micron layers
16:15 < kanzure> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wkvjlql3vhhavse/trexScaleB.tif
16:15 < kanzure> with this 1080p projector http://www.amazon.com/Acer-H6510BD-Theater-Projector-White/dp/B00B97ZKIA
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16:16 < kanzure> larger prints: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ktwaaavu5pv5ans/2014-06-13%2017.32.02.jpg
16:17 < kanzure> rabbit next to penny https://www.dropbox.com/s/crfls4d3gba64j5/2014-06-12%2018.29.32.jpg
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16:48 < kanzure> why didn't any of those "3d printer plastic" bacterial culture companies ever do anything
16:49 < kanzure> did it turn out to be more expensive than making normal plastic spools?
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17:47 < ParahSailin> i had one of those strains
17:47 < ParahSailin> guess who didnt want it
17:50 < kanzure> was it me? fuck me
17:53  * kanzure looks at http://cs.umd.edu/~amiller/nonoutsourceable_full.pdf
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17:54 < nmz787_i> http://www.unece.org/trans/danger/publi/ghs/ghs_welcome_e.html
17:54 < nmz787_i> 'Globally Harmonized System of Classification and Labelling of Chemicals (GHS)'
17:55 < kanzure> wasn't there an IUPAC classification thing
17:55 < nmz787_i> http://www.unece.org/trans/danger/publi/ghs/pictograms.html
17:56 < nmz787_i> umm, IUPAC is naming/acronym rules I guess
17:56 < kanzure> which symbol should i use for "curses your gametes with black magic"?
17:57 < kanzure> ah, perfect http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/danger/publi/ghs/TDGpictograms/5-2red_noir.gif
17:57 < nmz787_i> heheh
17:57 < nmz787_i> radiation?
17:57 < kanzure> oh is black magic supposed to be radiation?
17:57 < kanzure> that would explain a lot
17:58 < nmz787_i> http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/cen-v036n027.p044
17:58 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1021%2Fcen-v036n027.p044
17:58 < nmz787_i> 'now with more cyanide!;
17:59 < nmz787_i> huh, 1958 date on that article/advert
17:59 < kanzure> how does azco biotech store its chemicals if these can only be stored for 6 weeks at a time
17:59 < nmz787_i> damn pay-walled advertisments
17:59 < nmz787_i> kanzure: the ammonia thing is probably just cause its a dissolved gas
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18:00 < nmz787_i> "Your current credentials do not allow retrieval of the full text."
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18:00 < nmz787_i> "You haven't paid us to see this paid-advertisement."
18:01 < kanzure> so ammonium hydroxide is the only problematic one?
18:01 < nmz787_i> idk
18:01 < nmz787_i> haven't read the docs yet
18:01 < nmz787_i> but liters of waster per 100 bases will not be cheap to dispose of
18:02 < kanzure> docs claim it can be dissolved safely in "earth"
18:02 < nmz787_i> not to mention buying all those reagents that are just getting flushed through
18:02 < nmz787_i> heh
18:02 < nmz787_i> I wonder if they're pre-EPA
18:02 < nmz787_i> this library has a james-bond like girl for their logo http://wyld.sdp.sirsi.net/client/en_US/wmc/search/detailnonmodal;jsessionid=E3330DFA99DA5295B912EFBCC166880C.enterprise-35500?qu=Sampling.&d=ent%3A%2F%2FSD_ILS%2F833%2FSD_ILS%3A833057~ILS~0~16879&ic=true&ps=300
18:03 < kanzure> "Discard the waste. Place the liquid in a sealed container labeled “FLAMMABLE,” “POISON B N.O.S.” or absorb in vermiculite, dry sand or earth. Dispose of the waste following applicable government regulations. When handling the waste for disposal, wear gloves and eye protection, and avoid inhalation and skin contact."
18:04 < nmz787_i> http://will.state.wy.us/wyld/ent/wmc_ent_logo.bmp
18:05 < nmz787_i> kanzure: pretty sure waste companies would charge more if it was absorbed into some solid
18:05 < nmz787_i> more weight to haul in their trucks, more processing to do I'd assume
18:05 < nmz787_i> unless they just load the soil into their oven thing
18:05 < nmz787_i> incinerator
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18:11 < nmz787_i> kanzure: apparently this is used for "reproductive Toxins' http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/GHS-pictogram-silhouete.svg
18:15 < ParahSailin> put it down drain to sewer
18:16 < ParahSailin> wastewater treatment plants are very effective bioreactors for neutralizing chemicals
18:18 < yashgaroth> pretty much, yeah
18:18 < nmz787_i> I don't think that's a good idea
18:18 < yashgaroth> it's fiiiiiine
18:20 < ParahSailin> oh, are you telling me you know more about activated sludge reactors?
18:20 < yashgaroth> if you're that worried, just run the tap while you're dumping it
18:21 < nmz787_i> no, but I won't do something like that until I read through things on my own
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18:35 < nmz787_i> I should probably do something about the unpolymerized acrylamide that I've been keeping in the back of my fridge for the last year
18:37 < ebowden> Isn't that stuff extremely toxic?
18:37 < yashgaroth> only if you have neurons
18:38 < nmz787_i> it's capped and in a cold fridge, and I think in a sealed bag maybe
18:38 < nmz787_i> I keep it next to my grass-fed raw milk
18:39 < nmz787_i> not really, it's just in the back corner of the fridge
18:39 < nmz787_i> supposedly the first thing to happen toxin-wise is your finger tips start to tingle
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18:56 < kanzure> ParahSailin: why is antibiotic resistance used for selection rather than toxin/toxin resistance?
18:57 < ParahSailin> isnt that basically the same thing to a bug?
18:57 < kanzure> i mean lab reasons
18:58 < kanzure> plate, antibiotic resistance screen, look for gfp, etc
18:58 < ParahSailin> what do you mean by toxin as opposed to antibiotic
19:01 < kanzure> sorry, i'm mixing up my signals
19:02 < kanzure> iirc, most people use penicillin for their lab work
19:03 < kanzure> which seems like a bad idea, since we use penicillin for medical reasons
19:03 < kanzure> so ideally you would use different options for random lab work so you don't accidentally confer penicillin resistance to everything under the sun
19:03 < yashgaroth> nobody uses it for bacterial selection, pen/strep is used to keep stuff from growing in other cell cultures
19:04 < kanzure> i wish i could remember what the hell i've used
19:04 < yashgaroth> ampicillin, tetracycline, kanamycin, chloramphenicol are the big ones
19:06 < yashgaroth> also we use antibiotics since we know what the resistance genes are, finding a suitable 'toxin' and then trying to find a resistance gene for it sounds like a huge hassle and biologists are lazy
19:12 < nmz787> chloramphenicol isn't allowed for human use in this country
19:12 < yoleaux> 18 Jun 2014 22:33Z <kanzure> nmz787: alltronics stuff has shipped
19:12 < yoleaux> 18 Jun 2014 22:44Z <kanzure> nmz787: alltronics shipping charges cost more than the synthesizer shipping charges
19:12 < nmz787> other countries are less strict
19:12 < nmz787> so I'm thinking the synthesizer might be retrofittable
19:13 < pasky> to expand on that a bit, i'd expect that as bacterias typically easily gain resistance to antibiotics naturally over time, which means it is easy to compare the bacteria strain "before" and "after"... I'd imagine gaining resistance to some random toxin can be quite more challenging for the bacteria?
19:13 < nmz787> probably swap a microfluidic in for the column
19:13 < nmz787> pasky: why would it be easier/harder to evolve one thing or another?
19:14 < nmz787> the main difference would be if a detox solution would need multiple enzymes, lots of aminos to hold the enzyme together or if the reaction sequence it needed was all over the target molecule
19:14 < nmz787> needing to interact all over the target molecule i mean
19:14 < nmz787> or if multiple enzymes were needed
19:15 < nmz787> and how much of that would be mutated from old stuff
19:15 < nmz787> or be de novo generated
19:15 < nmz787> kanzure: it might be easier to ask about certain toxins you'd think might be useful
19:16 < kanzure> no, i was probably spacing on penicillin vs ampicillin
19:16 < yashgaroth> re: chloramphenicol, apparently "Gray baby syndrome" is a thing heh
19:18 < kanzure> .wik gray baby syndrome
19:18 < yoleaux> "Gray baby syndrome (also termed Gray or Grey syndrome) is a rare but serious side effect that occurs in newborn infants (especially premature babies) following the intravenous administration of the antimicrobial chloramphenicol." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_baby_syndrome
19:18 < nmz787> ~~~~
19:19 < yashgaroth> "why is my baby gray?" "I'm afraid he has gray baby syndrome" "fuck you're a useless doctor"
19:20 < kanzure> "thanks to smelly squid biotech, your baby can come out glowing with the best of them"
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19:35 < kanzure> *** Error in `/home/kanzure/.virtualenvs/brlcad/bin/python': invalid fastbin entry (free): 0x0000000003b46b90 ***
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20:02 < pasky> heh, nobody wrote a tool for on-gpu tile-wise seamless affine transform of huge image surfaces yet?
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20:23 < kanzure> nmz787: i'm still not convinced that disposal service is necessary ("dry sand")
20:23 < nmz787> i believe so
20:23 < nmz787> what is the link
20:23 < kanzure> in manual, http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/DNA/abi391/
20:23 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/DNA/abi391/ABI%20391-manual.pdf
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20:30 < justanotheruser> Please reccomend me an economical CNC mill
20:30 < nmz787> kanzure: it's out of context to not provide the next line in that quote "Dispose of the waste following applicable government regulations."
20:30 < nmz787> kanzure: I got the number for the waste water treatment folks re lab use
20:33 < kanzure> justanotheruser: cncified bridgeport is as cheap as you're going to get for anything uesful
20:33 < kanzure> *useful
20:33 < kanzure> *cnc-converted
20:33 < kanzure> what are the waste people doing that we can't
20:33 < kanzure> buying bags of sand?
20:34 < nmz787> .wik Cordycepin
20:34 < yoleaux> "Cordycepin, or 3'-deoxyadenosine, is a derivative of the nucleoside adenosine, differing from the latter by the absence of oxygen in the 3' position of its ribose part. It was initially extracted from fungi of genus Cordyceps, but is now produced synthetically." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordycepin
20:35 < justanotheruser> kanzure: it isn't a CNC mill out of the box?
20:35 < kanzure> manual :)
20:36 < kanzure> you could probably find someone selling a converted bridgeport though
20:36 < justanotheruser> Oh, do I need to hack it to get it to take coordinates?
20:36 < kanzure> so, most of the cheap cnc machines you find on kickstarter are not going to cut aluminum
20:37 < kanzure> it's too bad that they are all called "cnc" because it's hard to figure out which ones wont blow up the moment you try to cut metals
20:37 < justanotheruser> kanzure: is that an exaggeration?
20:37 < nmz787> kanzure: usually they use an incinerator with scubbers or additional burning I think... unless you're some company in the middle of nowhere with a lot of desert to dump in. I think they take watershed stuff around here pretty seriously.
20:37 < kanzure> justanotheruser: i don't think so, although i haven't looked at /all/ of them. there have been lots.
20:38 < nmz787> justanotheruser: i heard similar recently
20:38 < justanotheruser> nmz787: from kanzure?
20:38 < kanzure> haha
20:38 < nmz787> "You can see all of the larger pieces of equipment in my shop here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5i9f9GJS9M I'd say that a CNC mill is probably the single most versatile piece of mechanical manufacturing equipment that you can buy. If you can afford and have space for a full-size mill, you will be in really good shape in terms of being able to make almost any reasonable part. Some of the smaller tabletop CNCs are not able to cut metal (even ...
20:38 < nmz787> ... aluminum) very much at all, so they are much more limited. You can certainly cur threads on the CNC, but just having a tap set is often more than sufficient for most projects."
20:38 < nmz787> "-Ben [Krasnow]"
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20:39 < justanotheruser> nmz787: sorry to change the subject, but how do you get an ellipse at the end of your line carrying onto a new one in irssi?
20:40 < nmz787> uhh
20:40 < catern> nmz787: splitlong.pl
20:40 < nmz787> there were some ellipses in the stuff i pasted
20:40 < justanotheruser> lol :/
20:40 < catern> er
20:40 < catern> justanotheruser: splitlong.pl
20:40 < justanotheruser> catern: thanks
20:40 < nmz787> catern: I am paid to not use .pl
20:40 < justanotheruser> nmz787: oh?
20:41 < catern> justanotheruser: drop it in .irssi/scripts/autorun
20:41 < justanotheruser> So you manually count the characters and ... at the end?
20:41 < kanzure> the world health organization barred nmz787 from writing perl in 1997
20:41 < nmz787> I have no idea honestly, i think it's just the default debian repo install
20:41 < catern> they're very progressive so they pay him a stipend
20:41 < kanzure> similar arrangements for jrayhawk have been met with little to no success
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20:42 < kanzure> justanotheruser: fenn has spent a lot of time thinking about cheap cnc machines that do more than wood cutting
20:42 < nmz787> generally the way I sanitize IRC pastes is by first pasting it into my Chrome URL bar, then re-copying it
20:42 < kanzure> justanotheruser: most people think that you need lots of mass to cut metal, but that's mostly because they don't understand how to do engineering
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20:43 < justanotheruser> catern: umm, what if I don't have a scripts folder in my .irssi/?
20:43 < kanzure> for example, it has been demonstrated that you can use lasers or water to cut metal without 10000 kg of metal
20:43 < justanotheruser> just put it in .irssi/?
20:43 < justanotheruser> kanzure: has he built any prototypes?
20:44 < justanotheruser> kanzure: lasers seem more energy effecient
20:44 < kanzure> well, there's hextatic, but that's not a water cutter or laser cutter
20:44 < justanotheruser> kanzure: would the lasers needed to cut that be cheap at all?
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20:45 < kanzure> off the shelf, no, most good cnc equipment costs at least $50k, and then the fancypants stuff costs 10x or so
20:45 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NsM0-9_n3Q
20:45 < yoleaux> 5 Axis Laser Cutting
20:46 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7NofmHWWPQ
20:46 < yoleaux> Mitsubishi VZ20 Series 3D Laser Cutting Systems
20:46 < justanotheruser> kanzure: do wany
20:46 < justanotheruser> *want
20:46 < nmz787> justanotheruser: http://eugene.craigslist.org/tls/4439725753.html
20:47 < nmz787> 3 axis
20:47 < nmz787> $10k
20:48 < kanzure> i haven't priced a water cutter before but i'm sure it's >$5k for anything good
20:49 < kanzure> i think you can usually pick up a good manual bridgeport for <$1k
20:49 < kanzure> if a cnc conversion can be sold for $10k that sounds like good business to me...
20:49 < kanzure> *used manual bridgeport
20:51 < kanzure> gene_hacker: why hasn't everyone switched over to laser cutter cnc
20:52 < kanzure> i guess threading
20:54 < nmz787> "chickens could not compete with hazardous waste as a cash crop, since farmers typically were paid anywhere from $20 to $50 per drum of waste dumped on their land."
20:54 < nmz787> http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-04/how-toxic-dumping-led-tragedy-small-seaside-town
20:54 < justanotheruser> >popsci
20:56 < kanzure> "Waste organic solvents are separated into chlorinated and non-chlorinated solvent waste. Chlorinated solvent waste is usually incinerated at high temperature to minimize the formation of dioxins.[2][3] Non-chlorinated solvent waste can be burned for energy recovery. Innocuous aqueous waste (such as solutions of sodium chloride) may be poured down the sink; aqueous waste containing toxic compounds are collected separately."
20:58 < nmz787> "As easy as it was to dump legally in the hinterlands of central Jersey, many haulers wanted even sweeter deals. They preferred to do their dumping for free, deep in the pinelands, without anyone's permission or knowledge. No one stood in their way. In those days, the closest thing New Jersey had to an anti-dumping law was a misdemeanor public nuisance statute; it was invoked very rarely and only in the most blatant cases"
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20:59 < kanzure> as far as i can tell, most universities just hire some outside service and then stop thinking about it
20:59 < kanzure> but there's many forms of waste that you can react chemically with other stuff to make it drain safe
20:59 < nmz787> .wik tom's river
20:59 < yoleaux> "The Toms River, formerly Tom's River, is a 41.7-mile-long (67.1 km) freshwater river and estuary in Ocean County, New Jersey in the United States." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom%27s_River
20:59 < nmz787> .wik tom's river pollution
20:59 < yoleaux> "The Toms River, formerly Tom's River, is a 41.7-mile-long (67.1 km) freshwater river and estuary in Ocean County, New Jersey in the United States." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toms_River
20:59 < kanzure> i'm not convinced that "liquid organic waste" is as dangerous as radioactive barrels you have to hide forever
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21:00 < nmz787> .wik  Ciba Geigy
21:00 < yoleaux> "Novartis International AG is a Swiss multinational pharmaceutical company based in Basel, Switzerland, ranking number one in sales (57.9 billion US$) among the world-wide industry in 2013." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciba_Geigy
21:01 < nmz787> that popsci article was excerpting a book, I guess the polluter was discharging dye into the river
21:10 < kanzure> disposal is just "now it's someone else's problem", they might be dumping it down the drain for all you know
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21:29 < nmz787> that popsci article was excerpting a book, I guess the polluter was discharging dye into the river
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21:30 < nmz787> that popsci article was excerpting a book, I guess the polluter was discharging dye into the river
21:32 < nmz787> hi, sorry for the last two errant messages
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22:36 < nmz787> so the TCA is/forms 'halogenated waste' http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/summary/summary.cgi?sid=24851461#x50
22:36 < nmz787> "Disposal Methods SRP: At the time of review, criteria for land treatment or burial (sanitary landfill) disposal practices are subject to significant revision. Prior to implementing land disposal of waste residue (including waste sludge), consult with environmental regulatory agencies for guidance on acceptable disposal practices."
22:37 < nmz787> pure TCA is used as weed killer though
22:38 < nmz787> or maybe they used to
22:42 < kanzure> "Because halogenated organic solvents are often environmental and health hazards and even human carcinogens, the use in open applications has been banned worldwide."
22:45 < nmz787> .wik Psoralen
22:45 < yoleaux> "Psoralen (also called psoralene) is the parent compound in a family of natural products known as furocoumarins." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psoralen
22:47 < kanzure> all those assholes that care about "green waste" should make me a database or website of obvious methods of remediation of basic organic compounds
22:47 < kanzure> so far i don't see one. what a bunch of wankers.
22:48 < kanzure> people are terrible and evil. after all of these years of me enduring 5 seconds a week listening to their crap, none of them have done even that much??
22:52 < nmz787> maybe we can ask a safety expert on diybio.org
22:52 < nmz787> paste the whole list of reagents
22:52 < kanzure> haha yes
22:53 < kanzure> i think the trigger word is "remediation", not "disposal" ("make someone else take it away")
22:55 < nmz787> "Sodium monochloroacetate is currently used widely throughout the UK cane fruit industry and most particularly for both summer and autumn fruiting raspberries, to remove unwanted primocanes in both alleys and within the crop rows."
22:55 < nmz787> http://www.pesticides.gov.uk/Resources/CRD/Migrated-Resources/Documents/E/Essential_Uses_Report_for_SMA.pdf
22:56 < nmz787> "Without a suitable alternative to sodium monochloroacetate as an early season defoliant, the hop industry will find it very difficult to compete against imports of hops."
22:56 < kanzure> the reason why it's harmful is because it's reactive, so you should be able to just react it into something more inert or less interesting
22:56 < nmz787> which burning does
22:58 < kanzure> obv. the device needs a combustion chamber
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23:00 < nmz787> this tells us nothing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1-Methylimidazole
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23:02 < nmz787> http://www.glenresearch.com/MSDS/reagents/mMethylimidazole.pdf
23:02 < nmz787> "Waste Disposal: This combustible material may be burned in a chemical incinerator equipped with an afterburner and scrubber. Observe all federal, state and local laws for disposal."
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23:04 < nmz787> http://www.deq.state.or.us/lq/pubs/factsheets/hw/HowToDetermineHW.pdf
23:05 < nmz787> http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/40/part-261/subpart-D
23:05 < nmz787> .title
23:06 < yoleaux> 40 CFR Part 261, Subpart D
23:17 < nmz787> http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/MSDS_Sodium_trichloroacetate.pdf
23:19 < nmz787> http://orf.od.nih.gov/EnvironmentalProtection/Documents/Waste20Calendar2004270920508.pdf
23:20 < nmz787> "Multihazardous Waste"
23:20 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, but that was only a sample size of one.
23:20 < nmz787> it has a flow chart
23:20 < nmz787> "Call 301-496-4451 for waste pick-up"
23:21 < gradstudentbot> Cancer: still not cured.
23:23 < nmz787> "Available from Chemical Waste Disposal Service (301) 496-4710"   "Liquid waste container 3/5 gallon Collect chemical waste"
23:30 < nmz787> "Hazardous waste should always be disposed of through a designated hazardous waste management or recycling facility. Hazardous waste should not be disposed with ordinary garbage, poured into the sewer system, down storm drains, or onto the ground. Oregon law prohibits these acts."
23:31 < kanzure> that's bullshit, because you can't go to a hazardous waste facility and tell them "hey guys, stop whatever you're doing, you should really be transferring that waste to a hazardous waste facility"
23:31 < kanzure> it's too recursive, their regulations are crap
23:32 < nmz787> no, that just means they probably have different rules
23:32 < kanzure> :(
23:35 < nmz787> http://www.epa.gov/epawaste/hazard/tsd/index.htm
23:35 < nmz787> .title
23:35 < yoleaux> Hazardous Waste Treatment, Storage & Disposal
23:35 < gene_hacker> lasercutter cnc?
23:36 < kanzure> only reason i can think of is threading
23:36 < nmz787> we still don't know if it requires burning or can be sprayed onto some landfill
23:36 < kanzure> otherwise i think everyone should be using it for most cnc things
23:37 < gene_hacker> lasercutter over CNC?
23:37 < gene_hacker> oh I see
23:37 < kanzure> like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7NofmHWWPQ
23:37 < gene_hacker> you need to read this: http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/gcnc/
23:37 < kanzure> laser cutter cnc should cost much less in parts and maintenance than conventional bulky cnc stuff
23:38 < gene_hacker> milling is a great process BTW
23:38 < kanzure> yep i've read that at least once
23:38 < kanzure> although not part 4
23:38 < gene_hacker> oh that sort of laser cutter
23:38 < gene_hacker> problem is lasers suck
23:39 < kanzure> well, water then..
23:39 < gene_hacker> lasers are really inefficient
23:39 < gene_hacker> water jet cutters require lots of power
23:39 < kanzure> damn.
23:40 < gene_hacker> and they need jewels for the water jet that wear out
23:40 < gene_hacker> I don't know which uses less power though
23:40 -!- Adifex is now known as night
23:41 < gene_hacker> but if you're using it to make a limited production run of parts, I'm sure it would make sense to use them
23:41 < gene_hacker> techshop has a waterjet cutter don't they?
23:41 < nmz787> http://www.epa.gov/epawaste/hazard/tsd/ldr/resource.htm
23:41 < nmz787> kanzure: there's a bunch of stuff there
23:41 < gene_hacker> incinerate the waste
23:42 < gene_hacker> use a really big mirror and get it really hot, pass through a scrubber
23:43 < gene_hacker> also what are the plans for the synthesizer?
23:43 < nmz787> careful teardown
23:43 < kanzure> thorough teardown with pics, dumping software from the chips
23:44 < nmz787> firmware even
23:44 < gene_hacker> why?
23:44 < gene_hacker> just to reverse engineer it?
23:44 < kanzure> curiosity
23:44 < gene_hacker> sounds good
23:44 < kanzure> their manual has a fluidic schematic of the device
23:44 < kanzure> would be nice to run it for a while
23:44 < nmz787> might be able to see if there's a way to cannibalize it
23:44 < nmz787> retrofit it
23:45 < kanzure> if we do choose to run it,
23:45 < kanzure> there's a limited time during which the reagents are good
23:45 < kanzure> so there should be a list of stuff to synthesize ahead of time
23:45 < kanzure> so that it doesn't sit idle
23:45 < gene_hacker> isn't it all just a bunch of precision stuff that will lose it it's precision magic if taken apart?
23:45 < nmz787> the complete chemical set (which I have no idea how much powder to solvent it uses yet) was like $1200
23:46 < gene_hacker> no surprise there
23:46 < kanzure> i don't think it's $1200 recurring, though
23:46 < kanzure> maybe $1200 one time, probably $300/mo recurring?
23:46 < nmz787> so if the powder is for like 10kb (which I doubt)... then we need about 100X more solvent than I pencilled for
23:47 < nmz787> http://www.epa.gov/opptintr/chemfact/f_acenit.txt
23:47 < nmz787> " Acetonitrile by itself is not likely to cause environmental harm
23:47 < nmz787> at levels normally found in the environment.  Acetonitrile can
23:47 < nmz787> contribute to the formation of photochemical smog when it reacts with
23:47 < nmz787> other volatile organic carbon substances in air."
23:47 < nmz787> hmm, let it evap
23:47 < nmz787> 'i came back and it was gone'
23:48 < kanzure> "gnomes stole it"
23:49 < kanzure> gene_hacker: start thinking up a list of primers of interesting things you'd like :P (max is 175 bp, but my guess is that we'll get 20-40 bp)
23:49 < gene_hacker> DNA nanotechnology
23:49 < gene_hacker> do you have a hood for the darn thing?
23:50 < kanzure> well the manual says "just use a 25 foot tube", so i imagine it could go outside for all we care
23:50 < kanzure> it mentions that the waste bottle should probably be under a fume hood
23:51 < gene_hacker> please don't set this thing up like the one in district 9!
23:52 < nmz787> oh ya, that's a good source of inspiration
23:53 < kanzure> taq primers for sure
23:53 < kanzure> various fluorescent proteins
23:53 < kanzure> *protein primers
23:53 < gene_hacker> aren't those >150 bp?
23:53 < nmz787> it would be easier to start with primers for whatever is specified by the kit
23:53 < kanzure> nah the primers can be 20 bp
23:54 < kanzure> for the genes themselves yes >150
23:54 < nmz787> for a PCR mastermix
23:54 < nmz787> they ususally come with some plasmid and primers for a control
23:54 < kanzure> ah good
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23:56 < gene_hacker> actually the reverse engineering might be very educational
23:56 < nmz787> their valve design is pretty cool, seems pretty similar to a lot of the microfluidic stuff
23:56 < gene_hacker> pictures?
23:57 < kanzure> near end of the manual
23:57 < gene_hacker> perhaps it might be simpler to make a smaller synthesizer based around syringe pumps
23:57 < ParahSailin> acetonitrile biodegrades
23:57 < ParahSailin> so ok to flush down toilet
23:57 < nmz787> "The normal flow into the column is from the bottom. By sending the liquid stream upward, the CPG particles are lifted and maintained in a fluidized state. The flow rates of the solvents and reagents have been set to achieve proper mixing of the particles."
23:58 < nmz787> ParahSailin: the problem is that it'll be mixed with a bunch of other stuff too
23:58 < kanzure> page 118, 120, 219, 220 (last one is more interesting)
23:58 < nmz787> which I haven't google for yet
23:58 < kanzure> of http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/DNA/abi391/ABI%20391-manual.pdf
23:58 < ParahSailin> the other stuff will be handled too
23:59 < nmz787> ". The software is contained within a removable memory cartridge which plugs into the rear of the instrument. Updated software supplied by Applied Biosystems can be easily installed by removing the old cartridge and replacing it with the new one."
23:59 < kanzure> gene_hacker: it probably would be cheaper overall, sure
23:59 < kanzure> gene_hacker: there's about 10-15 chemical inputs here
23:59 < nmz787> 7
23:59 < nmz787> 7 types
23:59  * kanzure looks again
23:59 < nmz787> 5 of the inputs are phosphoramidites
--- Log closed Thu Jun 19 00:00:03 2014