--- Log opened Thu Aug 14 00:00:34 2014
00:01 < dingo_> its *very* frustrating to have your screen locked mid-programming a difficult problem... really drove me nuts, but its your health, you gotta work at it
00:03 < dingo_> a non-physician recommended maybe my hands were just too weak, i did a routine of pull-ups, push-ups, and those hand strengthener things you hold in your palm and squeeze on springs, i found no effect there, physician told me it was ok to exercise, it wouldn't harm, but it wouldn't particularly help either -- stretching does
00:04 < dingo_> i found good success with applying ice just below the elbow under times of great pain -- recommend a gel ice-pack, using raw cubed ice can sometimes hit your nerve on an edge and bring more pain
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00:06 < dingo_> socially, try not to bring it up... its on your mind all the time, so its the first thing you want to mention sometimes, that your hands hurt, but nobody wants to hear about that, its not ok to bitch about arthritis until you're at least 65, i figure
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00:33 < delinquentme> dingo do you know if you have any predispositions to allergies?
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07:13 < drewbug> paperbot, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12848287
07:25 < kanzure> hm
07:30 < ParahSailin> " It was later found out that Kanzi was actually producing the articulate equivalent of the symbols he was indicating, or, in other words, he was "saying" (articulating) these words, although in a very high pitch and with distortions" ok, so if thats true, why hasnt anyone fit a voice distortion box on the monkey
07:31 < cuba> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0040403911005119
07:31 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/222b8b38e62aae0bc62a0ad07b44d8ab.txt
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07:42 < dingo_> < delinquentme> dingo do you know if you have any predispositions to allergies?
07:42 < dingo_> yah, many food allergies -- does that relate to hand pain?
07:44 < kanzure> inflammation? yes
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08:33 < heath> http://open.spreadshirt.com
08:33 < heath> i've sold something like 50+ shirts now and my commission is $23, you can cash out at $25
08:34 < heath> the idea was to make a shirt i wanted, and then buy it from commission
08:34 < heath> one day, i will one of these shirts
08:34 < heath> useless update for the day
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08:35 < kanzure> missing verb
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08:37 < heath> i'm really good at that
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08:47 < heath> win 7
08:48 < kanzure> agreed
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09:44 < nmz787_i> dingo_: sheena: my mom has been having good results with corydalis for neuronal pain
09:45 < kanzure> problem is burned hands
09:45 < kanzure> friction burns
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09:54 < nmz787_i> oh
09:54 < nmz787_i> well that seems like time solves that one
09:56 < ParahSailin> ask me for anything but time
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10:03 < kanzure> ParahSailin: since you're on a refactoring streak, https://github.com/kanzure/brlcad/tree/master/src/other/openNURBS
10:03 < ParahSailin> fuckyaoyua
10:03 < ParahSailin> hsda
10:04 < kanzure> that doesn't sound good for your blood pressure
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10:12 < chris_99> so this is very silly, i've just been looking at this colour changing pen thing on KS (which has just been removed) but i was thinking you could make something like it using microfluidics, looking at some lovely youtube examples
10:13 < chris_99> how much do such chips usual cost out of curiousity
10:16 < nmz787_i> mass-wise cents or dollars depending on the material
10:16 < kanzure> stanford had a commercial foundry thing offering $400/mold
10:16 < nmz787_i> "Welcome to the DEF CON BioHacking Village discussion & planning list. This is not yet an official event, but it should be confirmed in the next month or two. DEF CON 23 will be Aug 6th thu 9th 2015 at the Paris Hotel in Las Vegas, which means much more conference space than the Rio. The DC-BioHacking Village is for anyone interested in topics such as ethics, human genetics, correcting common misconceptions (myths & misinformation), health, neurohac
10:16 < nmz787_i> ugh, "DNA printing"
10:16 < chris_99> hmm $400 isn't so bad
10:17 < chris_99> not that it's chaep
10:18 < chris_99> i was looking @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpbUvSyeRg0
10:18 < kanzure> .title
10:18 < yoleaux> Droplet Dispensing and Mixing in Digital Microfluidics
10:18 < kanzure> see also https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5AFDE0D7CCE51ACE
10:19 < chris_99> ooh
10:19 < chris_99> thanks
10:19 < nmz787_i> "You might have (unaccountably) skirted APHIS regulation, but that doesn't mean you don't have an ethical obligation to (1) thoroughly assess the biosafety of these plants; and (2) be frank in communicating these risks (and their uncertainty) to the public, even if they do not make as clean of a narrative as one would like."
10:19 < nmz787_i> are morals laws though?
10:19 < nmz787_i> I don't think so
10:20 < nmz787_i> chris_99: for something like a pen, the cost should be much less than $400
10:20 < nmz787_i> chris_99: shrinky dinks would probably work for that scale
10:20 < chris_99> shrinky dinks?
10:20 < nmz787_i> kids toys
10:21 < nmz787_i> google/amazon it and Michelle Khine
10:21 < chris_99> http://www.rsc.org/Publishing/ChemTech/Volume/2008/01/Shrinky-Dink_microfluidics.asp
10:21 < chris_99> wow
10:21 < chris_99> crazy
10:22 < nmz787_i> "Best of luck with your project, but do keep in mind ethical obligations to your stakeholders override any other imperatives or agendas you might have."
10:22 < nmz787_i> hah, that seems to assume the stakeholders care also... which they may not
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10:25 < kanzure> stakeholders staking some steaky stake
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10:51 < nmz787_i> how do I spam the crap out of some chinese online scam store?
10:52 < nmz787_i> I have their paypal email and their website email
10:52 < nmz787_i> is that illegal to do since they're in China?
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11:34 < nmz787_i> no one?
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11:34 < kanzure> are you asking permission to spam?
11:34 < kanzure> you are a really bad spammer
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11:40 < nmz787_i> well, no, I'm asking if I will get in trouble for doing it somewhere that isn't this country, specifically to china
11:41 < nmz787_i> get in trouble by the U.S.
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11:57 < chris_99> nmz787_i, i suggest a different tact, APT them and rain down an ungodly firestorm upon them
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13:03 < nmz787_i1> kinda strange how Rudiger hasn't replied to any of the questions/comments.
13:04 < kanzure> he's one of those people where "interpreting what i say is the wrong thing to do"
13:04 < kanzure> "i only mean what i say as much as it causes you to agree with me, but beyond that i am uninterested in speaking with you"
13:05 < nmz787_i1> huh
13:05 < nmz787_i1> so he's not actually interested in helping
13:05 < kanzure> people who use the word "stakeholders" are often like this
13:05 < nmz787_i1> welp, trade secrets it is then!
13:05 < kanzure> no, he probably does genuinely want to help
13:06 < nmz787_i1> well, then he's not interested in conversation
13:06 < kanzure> "because someone wrote a poorly reasoned whitepaper, i am going to use trade secrets" is a stupid line of thought and you know it
13:06 < nmz787_i1> heh
13:06 < nmz787_i1> but that's pretty much what it comes down to
13:06 < nmz787_i1> not really their fault, more like, something better doesn't apparently exist
13:06 < kanzure> you have always been very interested in finding reasons to use trade secrets
13:06 < nmz787_i1> oh yeah
13:07 < kanzure> look, there are people in this world that don't understand all possible licensing schemes, and that's fine
13:07 < nmz787_i1> ever since I tried to find out how to DIY coca cola
13:07 < nmz787_i1> shit is just complex
13:07 < kanzure> you shouldn't make it out to be something like "because i don't understand it, everyone else who has incentives to use those licenses is wrong", or "it is wrong for my situation because i don't understand those incentives"
13:07 < nmz787_i1> I laid out the few concerns/desires I had... and got no response, so these people don't seem to actually be in the real world as far as having some shit on the line to get stolen
13:07 < nmz787_i1> no I'm talking about myself
13:08 < kanzure> me too
13:08 < nmz787_i1> not other's
13:08 < kanzure> i am talking about you
13:08 < nmz787_i1> idk what they would use them for either
13:08 < nmz787_i1> since I didn't understand what it's point was
13:08 < kanzure> no i mean open source licenses
13:08 < nmz787_i1> (or the other licenses)
13:08 < kanzure> the ones that you want to use trade secrets instead of
13:08 < nmz787_i1> from what i've heard none of them mean anything if you can't pay a lawyer to defend it
13:09 < nmz787_i1> so how is that a realistic option for security?
13:09 < kanzure> many lawyers will work in your defense or offense if you have a clearly legally binding agreement where someone owes you money
13:09 < kanzure> (also it has to be enough money for them to want to bother, not "some guy owes me $200")
13:09 < nmz787_i1> has anyone done gamification os PSPICE?
13:09 < nmz787_i1> of*
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13:10 < nmz787_i1> kanzure: yeah I guess, but I guess my question of what to use is still unanswered
13:11 < kanzure> well, what are you licensing?
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13:11 < nmz787_i1> biotech instrument design, purification protocols, fabrication techniques... just off the top of my head
13:12 < kanzure> and why do the current set of licenses not serve you  ?
13:13 < nmz787_i1> no one has a good simple explanation of them I guess
13:13 < kanzure> do you consider this simple http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/
13:14 < nmz787_i1> well but that is just one of how many options
13:14 < kanzure> niet, answer
13:14 < nmz787_i1> i'd like a table I guess, or a list of paragraphs on each
13:15 < nmz787_i1> sure that is simple
13:16 < kanzure> what about https://tldrlegal.com/license/gnu-general-public-license-v2
13:16 < nmz787_i1> haha
13:16 < nmz787_i1> '   Loading   '
13:16 < kanzure> neat, i forgot about the gpl v2 no sublicensing term
13:18 < nmz787_i1> I guess I'd want something that said 'if used for commercial, must discuss $ fees'
13:19 < kanzure> that's not open source
13:19 < kanzure> i mean, it doesn't meet the open source definition
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13:20 < nmz787_i1> why not
13:21 < nmz787_i1> the source would still be open
13:21 < kanzure> it's the definition
13:21 < nmz787_i1> ?
13:21 < nmz787_i1> it's a compound word
13:21 < kanzure> learn to history? http://opensource.org/osd
13:21 < nmz787_i1> oh, well I never said open-source, I said license
13:22 < nmz787_i1> and I referred to my comments in that Rudiger thread
13:22 < nmz787_i1> which laid out what I'd expect/hope for (and what I assume others, thinking specifically about professors I've had, might think in terms of)
13:23 < nmz787_i1> since the example was antibiotic discovery
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13:23 < nmz787_i1> kanzure: eff says calling it 'free' instead of open-source is better
13:24 < kanzure> haha i bow to your increidbly nuanced understanding of this topic
13:24 < kanzure> *incredibly
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13:26 < nmz787_i1> ?
13:26 < nmz787_i1> i never said or implied i had a nuanced understanding
13:26 < nmz787_i1> i just know English
13:26 < kanzure> i strongly doubt that the electronic frontier foundation is telling you to call commercial licensing "free/libre", that's bullshit
13:26 < thundara> kanzure: Isn't that shared source?
13:26 < kanzure> thundara: gpl?
13:26 < nmz787_i1> it's a compound word, that's how people will interpret it
13:26 < thundara> Open source, but non free ($) deployment
13:26 < thundara> 13:20:46 < nmz787_i1> I guess I'd want something that said 'if used for commercial, must discuss $ fees'
13:27 < kanzure> dsource can be included in a license, but that doesn't make the license an open source license
13:27 < nmz787_i1> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-for-freedom.html
13:27 < thundara> Yeah, exactly
13:27 < kanzure> *source availability can be a term of the licensing agreement, but that does not means the license meets the open source definition
13:28 < kanzure> i can understand why people have a negative opinion of open source if they think it just means source availability
13:28 < kanzure> but that's basically the same thing as "people don't read"
13:28 < nmz787_i1> " However, the obvious meaning for the expression “open source software” is “You can look at the source code.” This is a much weaker criterion than free software"
13:28 < thundara> What are the other conditions? Free to deploy, free to see history of?
13:29 < kanzure> iirc history is not a term i have seen
13:30 < kanzure> ParahSailin: organ perfusion containerization startup wont fly for various reasons
13:30 < kanzure> ParahSailin: but i bet you could raise a few mil on doing "dashboards for organ perfusion/containing machines"
13:31 < nmz787_i1> thundara: so you're suggesting I'd be more interested in shared-source licenses?
13:31 < kanzure> i still don't understand why you're against open source licenses
13:31 < kanzure> *against using
13:31 < kanzure> *against you using
13:32 < nmz787_i1> because I want paid
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13:32 < kanzure> why ?
13:33 < nmz787_i1> i could be fucking off instead of working... but I choose to work because I think it will enhance my life, potentially significantly
13:33 < kanzure> using an open source license doesn't mean you are giving up income... geeze.
13:34 < kanzure> or that you will be incapable of making revenue
13:34 < AlterSid> indeed, you can sell your "open sourced" product.. that is a major business model in the tech world today
13:34 < kanzure> certainly
13:36 < nmz787_i1> i'm not worried about selling it, I'm worried about someone else, who likely has millions more in research and dev funding
13:37 < AlterSid> that is an argument that comes again and again, "what if this big company just sucks the life out of my product".. well, the thing is you'll be fine, pick a good license, and you'll make the world a better place
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13:38 < kanzure> oh right, the other common response is "dude look at how much fucking money they just spent validating your stupid market etc"
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13:41 < nmz787_i1> AlterSid: the whole point of this convo is that all this is hard to read, there isn't apparently a single wiki page somewhere with solid concise overview of each
13:41 < nmz787_i1> the tldrlegal.com interface seems nice
13:42 < AlterSid> yep, I think it is a good one
13:42 < nmz787_i1> but even now typing in shared-source doesn't immediately help
13:43 < nmz787_i1> there doesn't seem to be a 'compare the specs of these licenses' widget
13:43 < kanzure> what? that's practically a wikipedia page
13:43 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_free_and_open-source_software_licenses
13:43 < nmz787_i1> oh, and apparently some results are only placeholders https://tldrlegal.com/license/microsoft-shared-source-community-license-(ms-cl)
13:44 < kanzure> oh weird why did gpl3 add sublicensing
13:44 < nmz787_i1> 'Commercial use' yes/no isn't too helpful though
13:44 < kanzure> the ones that say 'no' are not good licenses
13:44 < nmz787_i1> unless a 'no' means you have to renegotiate for a different license
13:45 < kanzure> you can always always renegotiate with the owner
13:45 < nmz787_i1> none of the licenses there say no for commercial use
13:45 < kanzure> the owner can also always license his shit using multiple licenses
13:45 < kanzure> yes, because open source definition says it must explicitly allow commercial use, and that page is a comparison of said licenses
13:46 < nmz787_i1> as established by a non-legally-binding Open Source Initiative
13:46 < nmz787_i1> i mean, they don't have a trademark
13:46 < AlterSid> btw, haven't followed the discussion, but is it a library that you want to develop or an integrated solution?
13:46 < nmz787_i1> so open-source is still a compound English word to me
13:46 < kanzure> actually OSI does have a fucking trademark and that's why they were bullying the open source hardware people
13:46 < nmz787_i1> the eff page said they didn't pursue a trademark
13:46 < kanzure> http://opensource.org/trademark
13:47 < nmz787_i1> hah
13:47 < nmz787_i1> the use of the term “Open Source” is used solely in reference to software distributed under OSI Approved
13:47 < nmz787_i1> Licenses.
13:47 < nmz787_i1> i said open-source
13:47 < nmz787_i1> so it doesn't apply ;P
13:48 < kanzure> AlterSid: just... stuff.
13:48 < nmz787_i1> and since it is related to software, it seems it wouldn't apply either
13:48 < AlterSid> mmh
13:48 < nmz787_i1> yup nowhere in that doc to they mention open-source
13:49 < kanzure> they have at least a trademark
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13:50 < nmz787_i1> haha the other is a bio application http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4803:gyw9yw.5.14
13:51 < nmz787_i1> "Whey protein for use as an emulsifier or binding agent in food"
13:51 < nmz787_i1> mmm, gotta get me some open source
13:51 < nmz787_i1> i'd like some open source cheese on my burger, please
13:52 < nmz787_i1> wait
13:52 < nmz787_i1> both listings are for the milk stuff
13:53 < nmz787_i1> oh, nvm multiple pages unsorted
13:54 < nmz787_i1> hmm, I still don't see anything about software
13:54 < nmz787_i1> or OSI
13:54 < nmz787_i1> http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=4803%3Agyw9yw.1.1&p_search=searchss&p_L=50&BackReference=&p_plural=yes&p_s_PARA1=live&p_tagrepl~%3A=PARA1%24LD&expr=PARA1+AND+PARA2&p_s_PARA2=open+source&p_tagrepl~%3A=PARA2%24COMB&p_op_ALL=ADJ&a_default=search&a_search=Submit+Query&a_search=Submit+Query
13:55 < nmz787_i1> kanzure: seems OSI only has trademarks on their named stuff "OSI, Open Source Initiative, and OSI logo ("OSI Logo"), either separately or in combination, are hereinafter referred to as "OSI Trademarks" and are trademarks of the Open Source Initiative"
13:56 < nmz787_i1> "The OSI logo is a trademark of Open Source Initiative. In order to protect and grow the OSI brand, we have a distinguishable logo that can be used to mark software licensed under an OSI Approved License."
13:57 < ParahSailin> http://venturefans.org/vbwiki/File:OSI.gif
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14:01 < kanzure> great now i'm trying to think of venture quotes
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14:02 < kanzure> "crap who am i kidding, my code is going down the toilet faster than an unwanted pregnancy on prom night"
14:02 < kanzure> there we go
14:07 < nmz787_i> family guy had a musical break featuring something like that
14:08 < nmz787_i> 'back alley dumpster baby' i think
14:08 < kanzure> prom night dumpster baby
14:08 < kanzure> i need a lobotomy
14:10 < AlterSid> kanzure: business idea, scrape this: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/venture.html , and create "one page per quote" with an inspirational picture/portrait as background..
14:10 < AlterSid> kind of like this http://stickywallpapers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/motivational-quotes.jpg
14:11 < kanzure> are you the spammer i keep banning
14:12 < kanzure> oh right, no
14:14 < AlterSid> kinda new here, so I doubt it.. did I make a fauxpas? or break netiquette?
14:15 < kanzure> don't worry about it
14:15 < kanzure> it's nothing
14:24 < thundara> 13:33:07 < nmz787_i1> thundara: so you're suggesting I'd be more interested in shared-source licenses?
14:24 < thundara> I will respond to this tomorrow, remind me
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17:29 < kanzure> http://www.openoptogenetics.org/index.php?title=DLP_Projection
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20:39 < kanzure> i wonder how much more effective laser reflection of necks or mouths would be at speech recognition over plain audio
20:41 < kanzure> or, what the theoretical maximum improvement is
20:45 < kanzure> http://vocalzoom.weebly.com/uploads/8/2/1/0/8210683/paper_robust_speech_recognition_using_an_auxiliary_laser-doppler_vibrometer_sensor.pdf
20:45 < kanzure> that does not look like much to me
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21:39 < juri_> http://hackaday.io/project/2434-Microwave-Assisted-Aluminium-Printing
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21:41 < kanzure> old, i know a dude who's been working on that in dc since forever
21:52 < juri_> you mean, me?
21:52 < juri_> :P
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22:09 < kanzure> oh, whatever
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--- Log closed Fri Aug 15 00:00:35 2014