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06:15 < kanzure> stuff about ultra wide band rf written by spooks http://www.cringely.com/2014/05/15/nsa-help-kill-uwb/
06:23 < andytoshi> kanzure: lol! i thought i remembered that thread!
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07:56 < kanzure> what is a W_iso or a S_iso
07:56 < kanzure> something about isoparametry
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08:56 < andytoshi> kanzure: i'd guess related to the shape of those letters
08:56  * andytoshi hasn't even looked at any chemistry in over a year
08:58 < kanzure> not chemistry. is computational geometry.
08:59 < kanzure> i have decided that it means west and south. but i don't know why.
08:59 < kanzure> there is also N_iso and E_iso
09:02 < ParahSailin> how do you make flask logger connected to uwsgi logging
09:02 < ParahSailin> i need to do this slightly better than printf statements and 500 errors
09:03 < kanzure> python logging is pretty standardized
09:03 < kanzure> you just need to tell the logging module where you want to dump what sort of filtered logs
09:04 < kanzure> or the channels
09:04 < ParahSailin> ah, apparently there is something in the environment called wsgi.errors that is possibly a pipe?
09:04 < kanzure> take a look at the config here https://docs.python.org/2/library/logging.config.html
09:04 < kanzure> i mean the example config
09:05 < ParahSailin> yeah ive used that module before
09:05 < kanzure> and the "stream :" thing
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09:23 < kanzure> http://www.psmag.com/navigation/health-and-behavior/diy-diagnosis-extreme-athlete-uncovered-genetic-flaw-88763/
09:23 < kanzure> i am not sure if the "spine curves to the left so i try to lean right" thing works
09:35 < ParahSailin> oh, had to make a middleware class to set the logging stream to wsgi.errors
09:35 < ParahSailin> i think that would have been a sensible default for the flask writers to decide
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10:07 < kanzure> "Caution: Do not use -server, -daemon or bitcoind with 0.3.2 or lower."
10:08 < nmz787_i> re silicon-based surfactants 'Most of these surfacatnts can be crystalized in acetone to attain a high purity degree. Some of them are used in pharmacy as antiflatulent surfactants since they are biologically inert.'
10:09 < nmz787_i> and re fluoriunated: 'Hydrogen atoms of the surfactant hydrocarbon tail can be substituted by halogens, particularly F to produce fluorinated hydrophobes, which exhibit properties similar to polymerized tetrafluoroethylene (PTFE), known under the commercial brand name TEFLON: high chemical inertia, mechanical and thermal resistance, low surface energy, thus very high hydrophobicity. As silicon compounds, the fluorinated tails sometime
10:11 < nmz787_i> 'Perfluorinated acid in C5 (n = 2) gives a sodium salt with good surfactant properties. This is perfectly consistent with the fact that its molecular weight (increased by 8 F atoms) is close to sodium palmitate MW. Salts of perfluorinated carboxylic acids are surfactants when they possess from 5 to 9 carbon atoms. These salts are much more dissociated than their hydrocarbon counterparts and tolerate high salinity and divalent cations.
10:11 < nmz787_i> 'Perfluorinated carboxylates and sulfonates produce monolayers with less lateral interactions than their hydrocardon counterparts. They are able to turn a surface non-wettable to both water and organic solvents. They produce a superficial (air-aqueous solution) tension down to 15 mN/m, i.e. twice as low as the value reachable with the best tension reducing hydrocarbon surfactants.'
10:18 < nmz787_i> .wik marcek dekker
10:18 < yoleaux> "Marcel Dekker was a journal and encyclopedia publishing company with editorial boards found in New York, New York. Dekker encyclopedias are now published by CRC Press, part of the Taylor and Francis publishing group." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Dekker
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10:58 < kanzure> there is documentation here now https://www.transcriptic.com/platform/
11:00 < kanzure> "The DNA Assembly API abstracts over cloning and synthesis and guarantees a sequence-verified product. New DNA enters the aliquot lifecycle suspended in TE buffer."
11:00 < kanzure> hmm.
11:00 < kanzure> "Long-write DNA synthesis can be up to 3 kb per sequence and is priced according to a sliding scale of length and sequence complexity."
11:02 < kanzure> "We run a dry gel format that has two major differences compared to standard gel electrophoresis: the voltage is fixed and the durations are generally much shorter. agarose gels cannot be run for more than 30 minutes."
11:03 < kanzure> "Because of constraints in scheduling, DNA sequencing currently adds around 18 hours on average to a protocol run."
11:35 < nmz787_i> have you heard of .wik richard thieme
11:35 < nmz787_i> .wik richard thieme
11:35 < yoleaux> "Richard Thieme (born 1944), is a former priest who became a commentator on technology and culture, founding the consulting firm ThiemeWorks." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Thieme
11:39 < ezrios> I used to think Richard Thieme was interesting until I actually listened to his talks
11:40 < ezrios> the ideas are there, and they are interesting, but a lot of it is very vague wishy washy woo stuff
11:40 < nmz787_i> ah
11:40 < nmz787_i> I will probably listen to his defcon talk from a few years ago later tonight
11:40 < ezrios> I did enjoy his talk about "The Dark Side"
11:40 < ezrios> or something
11:41 < ezrios> that was actually quite good
11:41 < ezrios> his biohacking one was not
11:46 < nmz787_i> he was praised once or twice on the defcon biohacking village mailing list
11:47 < nmz787_i> it seemed that he influenced the posted to explore biohacking
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11:51 < kanzure> i've spent some time talking with him (at his request)
11:51 < kanzure> yeah i wouldn't recommend listening or watching, it's pretty boring
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12:44 < kanzure> "Bikanta is using nanodiamonds to redefine medical imaging. Those nanodiamonds act as miniature flashlights that can be used to “shine light” on a number of medical problems, including the detection of cancer. And that’s important because the faster you can detect cancer, the more likely you are to successfully treat it. The technology was developed as part of the founder’s post-doctoral study at the National Institute of Health, and ...
12:44 < kanzure> ... they hold key patents in the field. The company is selling into the $12 billion imaging probe and instrumentation market, and already has letters of intent for $3 million worth of nanodiamonds."
12:44 < kanzure> hmm so reflection? or the diamonds have some reaction group inside?
12:45 < kanzure> oh geeze "Vizera has some cool technology that uses projection mapping for designer showrooms. Their software can change the color and patterns projected on furniture so that buyers can see what chairs or couches would look like with certain kinds of fabric. "
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12:55 < kanzure> "One of the first patent pools was formed in 1856, by sewing machine manufacturers Grover, Baker, Singer, and Wheeler & Wilson, all accusing the others of patent infringement. They met in Albany, New York to pursue their suits. Orlando B. Potter, a lawyer and president of the Grover and Baker Company, proposed that, rather than sue their profits out of existence, they pool their patents (See also: Isaac Singer/I. M. Singer & Co)."
12:56 < kanzure> "The MPEG-2 patent pool has also been criticized because by 2015 more than 90% of the MPEG-2 patents will have expired but as long as there are one or more active patents in the MPEG-2 patent pool in either the country of manufacture or the country of sale the MPEG-2 license agreement requires that licensees pay a license fee that does not change based on the number of patents that have expired.[8][9][10][11][12]"
12:56 < kanzure> that is a neat trick
12:59  * bbrittain hears codec licenses being discussed
12:59 < bbrittain> MPEG LA is actively evil.
13:00 < kanzure> i would be interested in reading their patent license terms
13:00 < kanzure> but i know i'd have to sacrifice a goat to do that
13:01 < kanzure> "Since January 1, 2010, the MPEG-2 patent pool has remained at $2 for a decoding license and $2 for an encoding license.[28][29][31]"
13:02 < bbrittain> huh, I've gotta update it
13:02 < bbrittain> it's 2.50 now
13:02 < kanzure> codecflation
13:04 < kanzure> approximately how evil are they? actively destroying the world, or good people doing wrong things because broken incentives?
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13:07 < kanzure> hah "A most favorable royalty rates protection is included to assure Licensees that no Licensee will get more favorable royalty rates than another (Section 7.7)."
13:09 < bbrittain> keep in mind I hang out with xiph people... so as in they want to destroy the universe
13:09 < nmz787_i> xiph?
13:09 < bbrittain> but probably broken incentives
13:09 < bbrittain> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiph.Org_Foundation
13:09 < kanzure> well, it can also be both
13:10 < ezrios> hm, that richard thieme biohacking talk is not as bad as I recall
13:10 < ezrios> I would still take it with a (large) grain of salt though
13:11 < ezrios> there is some stuff that borders on conspiracy/UFO nonsense
13:11 < kanzure> didn't i recommend not watching :p
13:11 < ezrios> kanzure: I had seen it before
13:11 < ezrios> it just came up on "Watch it Again" on youtube after we talked about it here
13:12 < ezrios> google knows
13:12 < nmz787_i> hah
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13:13 < bbrittain> google knows most everything about everyone
13:14 < nmz787_i> bbrittain: I was just reading about VP8 or VP9 a day or two ago and i seem to remember it saying it required like 4X moer time to decode (or maybe it was encode) and didn't compress as well
13:14 < bbrittain> thats why I don't work on VP8/9
13:14 < bbrittain> it sucks
13:14 < bbrittain> and the worst part is that people use it as proof that open video codecs can't succeed.
13:15 < bbrittain> or aren't as good as proprietary ones
13:15 < bbrittain> admittedly, theora wasn't a good showing in that department either.
13:15 < bbrittain> but... Daala
13:15 < bbrittain> has serious potential
13:17 < kanzure> so wait, people argue that open source codec implementations don't work, or that open source codec specifications don't specify correctly?
13:18 < bbrittain> no, that something that is developed in the public lacks direction in addition to without having access to the MPEG patent pool is unable to succeed. also something about the economic incentives of the projects
13:18 < kanzure> i could maybe buy the patent pool argument because it's possible that they patented compression entirely or something, but i dunno about the other points
13:20 < kanzure> "lacks direction" is an unfortunate perception
13:20 < bbrittain> It's amazing how much work we do to get around patents
13:20 < bbrittain> but, we do
13:21 < kanzure> does MPEG LA also sell implementations?
13:22 < bbrittain> I don't think so
13:22 < bbrittain> but not sure
13:23 < bbrittain> but lets stop talking about this. not only does it make me angry, I'm reading molecular bio books right now. I'm switching careers this week.
13:23 < kanzure> now you get to substitute software patents for terrible biotech patents and dna patents, congratulations
13:24 < bbrittain> :(
13:27 < bbrittain> question, how bad are they if you aren't trying to directly do pharmaceuticals.
13:27 < bbrittain> are they still dreadful?
13:27 < kanzure> patents on individual genes, including quantification/detection tests
13:27 < kanzure> pre-existing genes, i might add
13:28 < bbrittain> yea.... thats what I thought. T_T
13:28 < bbrittain> HOW STUPID CAN PEOPLE BE
13:28 < bbrittain> ARGH
13:28 < kanzure> bbrittain: btw, they released some documentation https://www.transcriptic.com/platform/
13:28 < kanzure> their api design is a little bit weird, to be honest
13:28 < kanzure> especially considering it's supposed to be their whole job
13:29 < kanzure> but they have added things
13:29 < bbrittain> so, can I just do this _right now_
13:29 < kanzure> hm?
13:29 < kanzure> i believe the answer is technically no: there are inputs required that presumably you have to ship to their facility first
13:29 < bbrittain> like. let's say I wanted to use their biobanking stuff
13:30 < kanzure> i dunno if they have a bank of anything, other than reagents
13:30 < bbrittain> can I send them a single sample and as long as I pay, trust it will be there?
13:30 < bbrittain> https://www.transcriptic.com/pricing/#storage
13:30 < kanzure> oh they have dna synthesis, so there's that
13:30 < kanzure> yes i believe that's true
13:31 < bbrittain> well, I'm about to get my wisdom teeth out... soo... I could store my pluripotent cells with them :P
13:31 < kanzure> well you should store them somewhere
13:31 < bbrittain> obv.
13:31 < chris_99> under a pillow?
13:31 < kanzure> "There are three types of liquid handlers at Transcriptic: Tecan air displacement pipettors (Tecan ADP), Labcyte Echo 525 Acoustic Droplet Ejection (Echo ADE) instruments, and manual pipettors operated by lab technicians"
13:32 < kanzure> "lab technicians"
13:32 < bbrittain> chris_99: I'm not sure the $1 for my stem cells is a worth while trade. the tooth fairy is gonna have to up her prices
13:33 < kanzure> "DNA synthesis is a known hard problem. Transcriptic does not possess magical synthesis technology that will make your high-GC-and-laden-with-hairpin sequences work."
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13:33 < kanzure> hmm "Synthesis orders are automatically analyzed and specific sequences may be rejected by Transcriptic after review"
13:33 < chris_99> haha bbrittain
13:33 < kanzure> "In general, if you need branching logic in the middle of a protocol (e.g., atomically transforming one resource into another or gathering data), it's a sign something was poorly designed. Ideally protocols should be linear workflows whose only logic may be assertions about whether a step fails, but shouldn't otherwise have multiple destinies."
13:33 < bbrittain> :/
13:34 < kanzure> upload-the-entire protocol seems a little weird
13:34 < bbrittain> is that accurate? seem silly to me
13:34 < kanzure> i mean, it's just an api, i just need to touch their noodly appendages when i have time reserved
13:34 < bbrittain> elaborate on "noodly appendages"
13:35 < kanzure> lab equipment
13:35 < bbrittain> as in physically touch it?
13:35 < kanzure> i was talking about an api
13:35 < kanzure> look at their api
13:35 < kanzure> you submit a json document with instructions
13:35 < kanzure> no callbacks after each step
13:36 < kanzure> i'm sure it's easier to deal with on their end
13:37 < bbrittain> I'm gonna go read the doc before I ask any stupid questions
13:39 < bbrittain> nice.
13:39 < bbrittain> Aliquots are owned by organizations
13:39 < bbrittain> I like that
13:39 < drazak> kanzure: this seems pretty much like what was envisioned years ago
13:40 < kanzure> drazak: yep..
13:40 < kanzure> except they have funding
13:40 < kanzure> and equipment
13:41 < drazak> pretty cool
13:41 < bbrittain> I despise this API
13:41 < kanzure> hah
13:41 < drazak> I wonder if we were a little more dedicated and if I w2as a lot less lazy we could have gotten funding
13:41 < kanzure> yeah, it seems backwards in bunches of ways
13:41 < drazak> who the fuck cares as long as it works, but that's just me I guess
13:41 < bbrittain> like... what happens if you submit a bad command? or even like a 'a' instead of '30'
13:41 < bbrittain> is there a linter?
13:41 < kanzure> they probably evaluate the protocol upfront
13:42 < kanzure> i mean, i agree, i don't like this protocol format
13:42 < kanzure> i am not going to go convert all known protocols into this format..
13:42 < kanzure> jcline did some work parsing protocols into a standard format
13:42 < bbrittain> also, fuck json. It's so overused in all the wrong situations
13:42 < kanzure> http://88proof.com/synthetic_biology/blog/archives/290
13:42 < kanzure> .title
13:42 < yoleaux> Don’t Train the Biology Robot: Have the Machine Read the Protocol and Automate Itself – 88 Proof Synth Bio Blog
13:43 < kanzure> i mean, i'm not very happy with a custom grammar either
13:44 < bbrittain> a custom grammar is meh, but wouldn't stop me from using it
13:44 < bbrittain> that seems great!
13:44 < bbrittain> why doesn't everyone use it?
13:44 < kanzure> what happens when your asshole grammar becomes turing complete, are your users going to voluntarily stop using it because they understand that feature creep is extremely burdensome?
13:45 < kanzure> iirc people don't use it because he didn't release it
13:46  * bbrittain throws my arms in the air
13:46 < bbrittain> like... this probably isn't that hard
13:46 < kanzure> oh sure
13:46 < kanzure> it is doable
13:47 < kanzure> i don't remember why i haven't
13:48 < bbrittain> I'll try it in a few months if I have time. I'm not sure I'm familiar enough with reading protocols right now
13:48 < bbrittain> or understand what I'm doing :P
13:48 < kanzure> oh it is very simple actually
13:48 < kanzure> my suggestion is to make it up, without knowing how it works
13:48 < kanzure> and without looking
13:49 < kanzure> because everyone else who has looked can't come up with good ideas anymore
13:49  * bbrittain can do
13:49 < kanzure> there are some general principles that i'm sure can be imagined about science things you might need to do with science artifacts
13:50 < kanzure> also, ideally, codified instructions (if that's the right metaphor) should apply for automation scenarios and non-automation scenarios (humans doing things from a screen telling them things to do)
13:51 < bbrittain> sorry, but I don't like this line "The computer scientists should force the machines to work for the biologists, rather than expect the biologists to learn the machines."
13:51 < kanzure> he has some good arguments about that actually
13:51 < bbrittain> such as?
13:51 < kanzure> his background is electrical engineering, software, and then spent lots of time in a molecular biology lab
13:52 < kanzure> well, because he saw first hand how biologists interact with computers
13:52 < kanzure> it was based on evidence not based on wishful thinking
13:52 < bbrittain> send biologists to computer bootcamps
13:54 < bbrittain> dammit. now I'm thinking about bio/computer people problems and not protein signaling. :/
13:55 < kanzure> handwave about ligands and g coupled stuff
13:56 < bbrittain> pshaw. people already think I know biology already. now I need to actually learn it
13:56 < kanzure> this is more interesting:
13:56 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_three_secretion_system
13:56 < bbrittain> I have mad handwaving skils
13:57 < bbrittain> wtf
13:57 < bbrittain> also, Why is it relevant they are gram-negative? what does that actually mean beyond the fact they don't have that stain?
13:57 < ParahSailin> fuck yeah
13:58 < bbrittain> nvm. wikipedia to the rescue
13:58 < drazak> bbrittain: different composition of cell membrane
13:58 < drazak> its been years but iirc gram negative bacteria only have a phosopholipid bilayer
13:59 < drazak> and gram positive have some more stuff
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14:06 < bbrittain> also, this is ridiculous. I read a some then look up a word... which I spend 20 minutes on following links to figure out what it actually does
14:07 < kanzure> what was the word?
14:08 < bbrittain> this time? Janus kinase
14:08 < kanzure> you might prefer to read about enzymes through ECC really
14:09 < kanzure> http://www.brenda-enzymes.org/information/all_enzymes.php4
14:09 < kanzure> there was a tree somewhere
14:09 < bbrittain> so. many.
14:10 < kanzure> like on the left here http://www.ebi.ac.uk/pdbe-srv/PDBeXplore/enzyme/
14:10 < bbrittain> wat. applet
14:10 < bbrittain> to view
14:10 < bbrittain> no
14:11 < kanzure> oh right, bioinformatics had an applet phase
14:11 < kanzure> and a perl/cgi phase
14:11 < kanzure> it is still somewhat of a perl/cgi phase
14:11 < bbrittain> I've helped contribute to that phase :/
14:12 < kanzure> better formatted tree http://enzyme.expasy.org/enzyme-byclass.html
14:12 < bbrittain> ohh. that is much better
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14:13 < bbrittain> also, I'm realizing I might need to improve my ochem knowledge
14:13 < bbrittain> :P
14:16 < bbrittain> also, is the openpcr project any good?
14:17 < kanzure> adobe air
14:17 < bbrittain> whyyyyy
14:17 < kanzure> they use a laser cutter which increases their cost a bunch
14:18 < kanzure> openpcr is less awful than a bunch of other commercial options
14:19 < bbrittain> ok, I've seen 2 projects in this space written in adobe air now.
14:19 < kanzure> you know, i thought they picked adobe air because derp, but now that i think about it, i bet they picked it because of the autodesk people that were walking through biocurious
14:20 < bbrittain> if this is common, I may just quit now.
14:20 < kanzure> this applies more to "Genome Compiler Corp LLC Inc" than openpcr
14:20 < kanzure> nope, these are the only two projects that use adobe air in this space
14:20 < bbrittain> also, Genome Compiler is utter bullshit, right?
14:20 < kanzure> of course
14:20 < bbrittain> damn, my bullshit detector is on a roll
14:21 < bbrittain> wait. but if I feel this way without any experience in this space... WHY DO THEY HAVE FUNDING?!
14:21 < kanzure> they might have picked adobe air because they are morons, or because "hur dur autodesk will fund us because we're using their platform and stuff"
14:21 < nmz787_i> iirc transcriptic was using Scala
14:21 < kanzure> because funding works differently
14:21 < kanzure> am not talking about transcriptic.com
14:21 < nmz787_i> nope
14:21 < nmz787_i> i know that
14:21 < kanzure> ok
14:21 < bbrittain> nmz787_i: scala is fine
14:21 < bbrittain> I don't like it
14:21 < bbrittain> but it's not a stupid choice
14:21 < nmz787_i> i remember them talking about it for protocol safety
14:22 < nmz787_i> something about how strongly typed it was
14:22 < nmz787_i> or something
14:22 < kanzure> oh brother
14:22 < kanzure> yes they did talk about that, it's true
14:22  * bbrittain sighs
14:22 < nmz787_i> so I presume they check the protocols on upload
14:22 < kanzure> but their reasons were pathetic
14:22 < nmz787_i> i hope so
14:22 < kanzure> you can check protocols even without static typing
14:22 < kanzure> or strong typing
14:22  * kanzure winces
14:22 < bbrittain> well, they should use idris :P
14:23 < nmz787_i> supposedly maryadd is heading up the parsing revolution
14:23 < bbrittain> I mean, how can they verify anything without dependent typing?
14:23 < nmz787_i> security-through-parsing
14:23 < bbrittain> maryadd?
14:23 < nmz787_i> mlp?
14:24 < nmz787_i> hmm, those terms do nothing for googl
14:24 < bbrittain> still confused
14:24 < kanzure> maradydd is a person
14:24 < kanzure> she does stuff
14:24 < nmz787_i> ah
14:25 < nmz787_i> i was wrong
14:25 < bbrittain> ahh
14:26 < nmz787_i> .wik Meredith_L._Patterson
14:26 < yoleaux> "Meredith L. Patterson (born April 30, 1977) is an American technologist, science fiction writer, and journalist. She has spoken at numerous industry conferences on a wide range of topics. She is also a blogger and software developer, and a leading figure in the biopunk movement." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meredith_L._Patterson
14:27 < nmz787_i> a lot of people referred to that biopunk manifesto at defcon, but I can't really see what the big deal with it is
14:27 < kanzure> "she has spoken at conferences" is such a shitty way to start her bio
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14:28 < bbrittain> am I alone in liking the term biopunk?
14:29 < kanzure> is that important
14:29 < nmz787_i> are normal punks that aren't robots also biopunks?
14:30 < nmz787_i> hah 'calls self anarchist, pays for taxes on cigarettes'
14:30 < bbrittain> not particularly, but I am of the opinion that labels can really define a movement, especially one that is as nascent as this
14:30 < bbrittain> ... but that is all pure bullshit
14:30 < nmz787_i> .title http://www.imdb.com/list/ls054304342/
14:30 < yoleaux> IMDb: Movies for the Biopunks
14:31 < bbrittain> damn. I could make a better list than that
14:31 < nmz787_i> do it
14:31 < bbrittain> first: GATTACA, second: bladerunner
14:31 < nmz787_i> as for now, I think I'll start checking off the few on that list I've not seen
14:31 < kanzure> what a boring list who the hell hasn't seen those each a million times
14:31 < nmz787_i> meh bladerunner sucked
14:32 < nmz787_i> the book was better
14:32 < bbrittain> the book was different
14:32 < bbrittain> ftfy
14:32 < kanzure> i mean the gattaca/bladerunner list
14:32 < kanzure> there's only so many times..
14:32 < bbrittain> kanzure: LIES
14:32 < bbrittain> but I do agree
14:32 < nmz787_i> I haven't seen 'body melt'
14:33 < chris_99> this could be cool - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2884206/?ref_=nv_sr_1    i origins
14:34 < nmz787_i> oO
14:35 < nmz787_i> 'The Tingler' with Vincent Price sounds good
14:36 < nmz787_i> hah they have the pokemon movie on that biopunk list
14:36 < chris_99> i've got one based on some of John Lillys stuff ;) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080360/?ref_=nv_sr_1 Altered States
14:36 < nmz787_i> i think I watched that recently
14:37 < nmz787_i> psh, twelve monkeys isn't on that list
14:39 < chris_99> you seen A Scanner Darkly
14:39 < bbrittain> nmz787_i: is that really biopunk?
14:39 < bbrittain> cyberpunk more like
14:40 < bbrittain> actually, I might take bladerunner off my list
14:41 < chris_99> why
14:41 < chris_99> that had biohacking in
14:41 < chris_99> or whatever you want to call it ;) they made weird creatures
14:42 < bbrittain> kindaa
14:43 < nmz787_i> bbrittain: are you talking about 12 monkeys?
14:44 < nmz787_i> bbrittain: the whole story was based on bioterrorists... are you saying that aren't punks?
14:44 < nmz787_i> which is certainly disputable
14:44 < chris_99> oh yeah thats true heh
14:44 < chris_99> i forgot about that
14:44 < nmz787_i> osama bin punk'in
14:44 < chris_99> haha
14:46 < bbrittain> nmz787_i: right, but I think it may miss the whole aesthetic, no? Is not specific bioware really the focus, or is it more about the time travely/has no idea what is going on.
14:46 < chris_99> remember there was also the germ warfare side too
14:47 < chris_99> or whatever that dude had
14:47 < bbrittain> then something like I am Legend would also be biopunk
14:47 < bbrittain> uhh
14:47 < bbrittain> mabye I need to rewatch it
14:47 < nmz787_i> yeah i am legend deff bio-something
14:47 < nmz787_i> idk I always thought 12 monkeys was biotech centric
14:47 < nmz787_i> the time travel seemed more of a standard-issue theme to me
14:47 < nmz787_i> since it was after back to the future
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14:49 < nmz787_i> in the venn-diagram of biotech-related movies, I like several of the graph-hops-away-from-the-centroid
14:49 < chris_99> does Fear and loathing, Requiem for a dream etc. count as biopunk
14:49 < nmz787_i> oO yeah
14:50 < nmz787_i> and the Super Mario Bros movie
14:50 < chris_99> haha
14:51 < nmz787_i> idk 'punk' invokes thoughts of slackers and laziness to me
14:51 < nmz787_i> anarchists that don't do much but complain and drain
14:51 < chris_99> Slackers is a good film, not related to biotech though
14:52 < kanzure> you guys have really low standards
14:52 < chris_99> *Slacker
14:54 < chris_99>  The Anarchist Cookbook is amusing just because it's so bad
14:54 < chris_99> (the film)
14:55 < nmz787_i> if 'punk' evaluates to cry-about-it-some-more-slacker then I guess Idiocracy is prefixed by that
14:56 < nmz787_i> sort of
14:57 < bbrittain> I resent that definition of punk as an anarchist who just complains a lot
14:57 < bbrittain> I tweet a lot about ferguson though
14:59 < bbrittain> awww come'on. that was funny
14:59 < nmz787_i> ?
14:59 < nmz787_i> who/what is ferguson?
14:59 < nmz787_i> cat ferguson?
14:59 < bbrittain> -_-
15:00 < bbrittain> http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/18/justice/what-we-know-about-ferguson/index.html
15:00 < bbrittain> essentially this town is under military law and in open revolt
15:01 < bbrittain> my twitter feed is pretty much just this and gaza stuff right now
15:01 < bbrittain> it's awful
15:01 < nmz787_i> if that dude would have been home on the internet programming, this wouldn't have happened
15:02 < kanzure> uh..
15:02 < kanzure> hackers are persecuted too you moron
15:02 < kanzure> but also there are many other reasons why that idea is bad
15:03 < nmz787_i> it was sarcasm
15:03 < kanzure> like, wasn't there an entire police force that has never carried fire arms for hundreds of years, why is that off the table
15:03 < nmz787_i> is that in like, england?
15:03  * bbrittain mutters about no police force
15:03 < kanzure> i think england changed recently(?)
15:04 < nmz787_i> where they don't have a second amendment
15:04 < chris_99> most police officers don't carry guns in the UK still
15:05 < kanzure> just because they don't have a second amendment doesn't mean they are bulletproof officers
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15:07 < bbrittain> not yet at least
15:07 < bbrittain> give it 20 years. they'll be bullet proof and have skull canons
15:07 < bbrittain> :P
15:07 < kanzure> too bad tesla never was able to line all the roads with giant tesla coils
15:07 < nmz787_i> no, I mean it means that weapons aren't protected as a keystone of the memes that are central to the nation
15:07 < kanzure> you could mount weapons to or near each of the coils
15:07 < kanzure> and then nearby citizens can just do time share or open allocation of weapons
15:08 < kanzure> and have an eternal standoff and threat of violence the proper way to encourage business
15:08 < kanzure> bbrittain: cannons
15:08 < kanzure> unless you mean the camera
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15:30 < kanzure> bbrittain: personally i think most of the protocols should be pruned
15:31 < kanzure> bbrittain: so that the ones that work less than 100% of the time can be trashed
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15:51 < kanzure> heh time knows no bounds to irony
15:51 < kanzure> http://www.uilabs.org/announcement/AVM_PR_061214.pdf
15:51 < kanzure> these guys got the contract for the last phase of darpa avm/ifab/vehicleforge
15:52 < kanzure> and they hired someone who apparently wasn't aware of my vehicleforge proposals but is aware of my software background and cad background
15:53 < nmz787_i> bbrittain: mark fraunfelder tweeted this http://boingboing.net/2014/08/14/video-of-ferguson-police-gassi.html
15:53 < nmz787_i> 'Video of Ferguson police gassing news crew and dismantling their equipment'
15:59 < bbrittain> nmz787_i: yup
16:00 < bbrittain> it's awful
16:00 < bbrittain> kanzure: that make sense
16:00 < bbrittain> do many fail?
16:08 < nmz787_i> is it just white people gone crazy?
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16:19 < ParahSailin> why are there news crews without gas masks?
16:19 < ParahSailin> and of course its al jazeera that came prepared, as usual
16:21 < kanzure> someone should do an advertisement for beautiful gas masks
16:21 < kanzure> make it a fashion
16:21 < kanzure> "Protest in style"
16:21 < kanzure> cc nsh
16:23 < ParahSailin> i bet russia wishes they had black kgb agents to send to ferguson now
16:23  * nsh nods
16:27 < kanzure> hmm
16:27 < ParahSailin> nah, i bet russia has an exchange program with cuba
16:28 < kanzure> funny how life works out re: darpa avm/ifab/vehicleforge
16:29 < kanzure> bbrittain: yes many fail. ask ParahSailin.
16:29 < ParahSailin> what fail?
16:29 < kanzure> protocols
16:30 < kanzure> petri dish swirling
16:30 < kanzure> black magic
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16:44 < kanzure> hmm so darpa doesn't really know what to do with all of the avm/ifab assets
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17:00 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptive_Vehicle_Make
17:00 < kanzure> bbrittain: also ask yashgaroth about failure rates of standard lab protocols
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17:34 < dingo_> https://maze.io/i/i.has.floppy.png
17:34 < dingo_> ^ friend of mine made a parser for C64 text art
17:35 < kanzure> bleeding edge
17:45 < bbrittain> https://backpackbang.com/
17:45 < bbrittain> yes. a YC smuggling company
17:45 < bbrittain> my life is complete
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17:52 < bbrittain> after attempting to sign up, I change my mind
17:53 < bbrittain> why would I sign up for a smuggling company? like... this seems like an intricate trap.
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18:06 < kanzure> "it's like uber for smuggling"
18:15 < kanzure> generic models of some hardware parts in lisp http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/darpa/avm/meta/meta/draw/models/
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18:31 < kanzure> lisp modelica stuff http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/darpa/avm/meta/meta/envisioner/
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18:52 < bbrittain> I'm trying to go to https://ubiome.com/
18:53 < bbrittain> does the site look broken for other people?
18:55 < kanzure> you should check the dirt on ubiome that was emailed to diybio
18:56 < bbrittain> oh? link?
18:57 < bbrittain> I think all I do in this channel is either say "link?" or "elaborate?"
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19:08 < kanzure> hmm
19:09 < kanzure> "$89 for a full 16S rRNA profile at uBiome, or $99 at American Gut. Yes, you can probably DIY a cheaper test that gives you far, far less information. But for something as truly complex as the microbiome, I would have very little faith in a test that only looks at a couple specific lineages. I work with metagenomes for my day job, so on this one I actually know whereof I speak (usually, I just spout off on topics I know nothing about. ;-)"
19:09 < kanzure> "(6) 16S deep sequencing - which is what uBiome and American Gut are doing. They're getting as significant volume discount, and are not making much if any profit at $89-99/sample, so I highly doubt you'd be able to do any better."
19:09 < kanzure> no that wasn't it...
19:10 < kanzure> oh hmm
19:10 < kanzure> "My thoughts: uBiome is a Silicon Valley startup run by ex- and current academics and entrepreneurs. American Gut seems to be a largely academic and East coast influenced endeavor."
19:12 < kanzure> huh well i can't find the dirt
19:12 < kanzure> now that i think about it, it was possibly dirt on american gut instead
19:13 < ParahSailin> i trust that those assays are at least ngs of some form right?
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19:13 < kanzure> http://venturebeat.com/2012/11/16/ubiome-launch/
19:13 < kanzure> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/american-gut-what-s-in-your-gut--7
19:14 < kanzure> hmm sorry i dunno
19:14 < bbrittain> what sorta data do they give? anyone on here actually used it?
19:15 < bbrittain> I've greatly enjoyed my 23andMe results
19:15 < ParahSailin> ok http://supportres.illumina.com/documents/documentation/chemistry_documentation/16s/16s-metagenomic-library-prep-guide-15044223-b.pdf
19:16 < ParahSailin> so basically they both run this kit for you and presumably have different bioinfo guys interpreting it for you
19:16 < kanzure> right
19:16 < bbrittain> that seems... sketchy
19:17 < ParahSailin> 23andme runs the beadchip for you and doesnt even interpet it for you anymore
19:17 < kanzure> they are just doing grouped sequencing runs to loewr the average cost per participant
19:17 < kanzure> *lower
19:17 < kanzure> they should have called themselves upoop
19:18 < kanzure> p2p fecal matter transplants and sequencing
19:18 < bbrittain> like taskrabbit for your fecal matter
19:19 < kanzure> i pay them enough that they damn well better should do my fecal matter or anything else i ask
19:19 < bbrittain> since there are two of them we could make a yelp for picking your fecal matter examiners
19:19 < kanzure> their new ui sucks
19:20 < bbrittain> their CSS won't load. wat.
19:20 < kanzure> and you can't reserve them for specific times, only four hour blocks now :(
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20:52 < kanzure> .title http://wacco.mveas.com/
20:52 < yoleaux> Home of Project VGA, the Low Budget, Open Source, VGA Compatible video card
20:52 < kanzure> http://zet.aluzina.org/index.php/Zet_processor
20:52 < kanzure> .title http://gplgpu.com/?p=88
20:52 < yoleaux> GPLGPU now available
20:53 < kanzure> https://github.com/asicguy/gplgpu
20:56 < kanzure> i see okay separation of modules
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22:20 < dingo_> openbsd does a good job of allowing you to run X11 as non-root
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22:22 < dingo_> american gut is nice
22:27 < kanzure> "21 years ago I was in a Korean shipyard where the largest container ships of the day were being built. Their capacity was 6000 TEUs, one-third of the Mary Maersk. The captain of one of the ships (a 27 year old (!) German woman) told me most ports cannot handle the 6000 TEU vessels, so their line will be building mainly 4500 TEU ships."
22:27 < kanzure> "One interesting thing is that those older, smaller ships had more powerful engines than the much larger current vessels! The engine installed on the 6000 TEU vessel was ~90,000 hp, and the ship was designed for sailing at ~25 knots, the justification being that the value of cargo onboard was so high that the cost of shipping was dominated by the interest charges!"
22:27 < kanzure> "Interesting to note - the change in interest rates therefore has an impact on the size of ship engines, with lower interest rates resulting in smaller engines (or perhaps engines being run at more efficient speeds in terms of fuel consumption)"
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--- Log closed Wed Aug 20 00:00:40 2014