--- Log opened Mon Sep 22 00:00:47 2014
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00:59 < drewbug> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17787564
00:59 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1126%2Fscience.198.4320.948
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06:42 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXvar-4M6VA
06:42 < yoleaux> Synchronized Ferrofluid Sculptures - YouTube
06:48 < kanzure> this seems to be one of the huge downsides of using plover or chording:
06:48 < kanzure> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ploversteno/_652_LQnyRM
06:48 < kanzure> "how do i type this thing without a space?"
06:48 < kanzure> nobody sends questions like that about qwerty ever
06:49 < kanzure> because they are completely unnecessary
06:49 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8349655
06:49 < yoleaux> You are listening to New York – police radio and ambient music | Hacker News
06:50 < kanzure> that thread has weird music suggestions
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07:38 < ybit> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/11109256/Creating-a-Bitcoin-Island-just-off-the-English-coast.html
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08:28 < kanzure> .title http://www.stathat.com/
08:28 < yoleaux> StatHat - Awesome custom stat tracking tool.
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10:14 < kanzure> nmz787_i: what happened to openspectrometer.com
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11:38 < nmz787_i> kanzure: let it die, moved stuff to github and some newer stuff on hackaday.io (though I should put that in some README on the github too)
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12:36 < jrayhawk> http://theweek.com/speedreads/index/268531/speedreads-florida-woman-gets-third-breast-implanted douglas adams fans rejoice
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13:14 < chris_99> http://www.femm.info/wiki/MagneticsTutorial looks interesting
13:14 < nmz787_i1> http://www.idealvac.com/downloads/MSDS/Permatex/Permatex_Ultra_Grey_Rigid_Gasket_Maker_82194.pdf
13:16 < nmz787_i1> PDMS 40-70%, CaCO 20-40%, garnet mineral 20-40%, vinyl oximinosilane <7%, silica (amorphous treated) <5%, 2-butanone oxime 0.5-2.0
13:17 < nmz787_i1> so it seems this would be safe for electronics potting, where I think I've heard you should abstain from using acetic acid-based silicones
13:17 < ParahSailin> is that a single component silicone?
13:18 < nmz787_i1> 'Butanone is also used in dry erase markers as the solvent of the erasable dye.'
13:19 < nmz787_i1> yeah found at most auto parts stores
13:26 < nmz787_i1> hmm, so we've got so much data on IR spectrum signatures from molecules for which the 3D structure and atomic makeup is known... I wonder if some AI could be used to learn the rules using some physics engine or antenna calculator algorithms as a basis for their data model
13:29 < nmz787_i1> .wik Epichlorohydrin
13:29 < yoleaux> "Epichlorohydrin (abbreviated ECH) is an organochlorine compound and an epoxide. Despite its name, it is not a chlorohydrin. It is a colorless liquid with a pungent, garlic-like odor, moderately soluble in water, but miscible with most polar organic solvents." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epichlorohydrin
13:30 < nmz787_i1> that must be where they got the name 'bacon bits' from
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13:42 < kanzure> nmz787_i1: tim schmidt wants to ask you some questions about spectral things, but i don't know where he went
13:43 < kanzure> dingo: https://github.com/wolever/pip2pi
13:43 < kanzure> dingo: pip/pypi/python packaging still sucks >:(
13:43 < kanzure> dingo: i think i would be less infuriated if there was better local caching of multiple versions of the same python libraries
13:44 < kanzure> i just want to download a package once, and then have my virtualenvs check my cache first, and put things in that cache. also, my containers and vms should check that same place too.
13:44 < kanzure> i suppose a giant http cache might be appropriate.
13:47 < kanzure> i don't think PIP_DOWNLOAD_CACHE works
13:47 < kanzure> not sure
13:49 < kanzure> oh yeah i forgot about http://doc.devpi.net/latest/
13:50 < kanzure> oh but that's a complete cache of pypi. hrm.
13:52 < chris_99> is there any python interpretter without a GIL other than JPython?
13:52 < kanzure> ironpython ?
13:53 < kanzure> pyp-tm?
13:53 < kanzure> erm.. pypy-tm
13:54 < chris_99> that seems to be something in the works right?
13:55 < kanzure> i'm not exactly sure about the no-gil pypy version, sorry
13:55 < kanzure> dingo might know
13:59 < ParahSailin> if you're at the point of caring about GIL, python is the wrong language
14:01 < chris_99> mmm i agree, i was just wondering if there were JIT'd GIL-less pythons, but as there don't seem to be, i'll use something else
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14:11 < dingo> if you like python and you care about the GIL, jython threads do not have GIL issue
14:11 < dingo> or you can just use multiprocessing module
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14:12 < dingo> https://wiki.python.org/moin/GlobalInterpreterLock "Jython and IronPython have no GIL and can fully exploit multiprocessor systems."
14:12 < chris_99> mmm i have played with the multprocessing mod, ages ago
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14:18 < kanzure> unfortunately jython is mostly unmaintained
14:19 < ParahSailin> jython works though
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14:19 < ParahSailin> it doesnt have a lot of new versions coming out but who cares
14:22 < kanzure> people that want a platfrom that isn't dead
14:22 < dingo> i don't know about that, the unmaintained
14:22 < dingo> it was behind for years, but last i used it it was just peachy
14:22 < kanzure> oh
14:22 < kanzure> when was last used for you
14:22 < dingo> its at version 2.7b2, august 2014
14:22 < dingo> around year 2011 or so
14:22 < kanzure> yes but what about python3.x etc
14:23 < dingo> it was just then that began a python2.7 release, they were like python2.4 or 2.6 before then
14:23 < kanzure> right..
14:23 < dingo> well they do have a python3 release, i don't know anything about it, though
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15:50 < nmz787_i1> chris_99: python multiprocessing is pretty easy, spawned processes look and feel pretty much like threads
15:50 < nmz787_i1> kanzure: tim from michigan (linkedin results)
15:50 < nmz787_i1> ?
15:51 < chris_99> yeah i've used it before, i want threads though
15:52 < nmz787_i1> what reason? I thought threads were borne as a result of multicore architecture not existing/being common
15:52 < nmz787_i1> (my thinking could be totally wrong)
15:53 < kanzure> yes that is the person
15:53 < chris_99> not sure what you mean, they're less heavyweight though
15:55 < nmz787_i1> chris_99: yeah I guess I was just thinking of that
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16:45 < nmz787_i1> i need some 'hillybilly coder' music to listen to
16:45 < nmz787_i1> i feel like techno banjo
16:46 < nmz787_i1> something that would be titled like 'hillybilly banjo to bitbang by'
16:57 < chris_99> haha techno banjo sounds awesome
16:57 < kanzure> i'll stick to https://soundcloud.com/kay-d/da-luka-from-berati-with-love
17:06 < nmz787_i1> that is too dreamy for me right now... I need something that will resonate with my mood to create a nice peppy beat frequency
17:10 < chris_99> how about some true scottish pirate metal - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta-Z_psXODw
17:11 < nmz787_i1> I'll try that next, for now I've found https://soundcloud.com/tinush/tinush-old-mans-banjo-original
17:12 < nmz787_i1> kind of eastern european techno with some banjo twang
17:12 < chris_99> ooh
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17:17 < nmz787_i1> I wonder if they have a rival Irish pirate metal group
17:17 < chris_99> haha
17:22 < chris_99> a while ago i mentioned trying to do shape detection, i've ported something to java that seems to do line detection rather nicely https://github.com/anfractuosity/LSD
17:29 < nmz787_i1> i am working on QR code detection
17:30 < nmz787_i1> by working on I mean using an existing library for detection
17:30 < chris_99> aha cool
17:30 < chris_99> what for?
17:31 < nmz787_i1> drift-correction on a milling machine
17:31 < nmz787_i1> rather than use some custom X for a fiducial, the QR codes seem like a good unique icon to look for
17:32 < nmz787_i1> chris_99: have you seen the python library shapely?
17:32 < chris_99> don't think so
17:32 < nmz787_i1> oh, that is for line crossing detection, not just line detection
17:32 < nmz787_i1> rather that's the context I found it in
17:32 < chris_99> i needed something in java as i was writing an android app
17:33 < kanzure> .g site:github.com shapely
17:33 < yoleaux> https://github.com/Toblerity/Shapely
17:34 < nmz787_i1> hmm, 2k lines doesn't sound like a terribly small but also not terribly large project to port
17:35 < nmz787_i1> oh, more like 3k i guess
17:35 < chris_99> i tried LSD on my rather naff phone, and it worked ok
17:38 < kanzure> .ety naff
17:38 < yoleaux> naff (v.): "British slang word with varied uses, not all certainly connected; see Partridge, who lists three noun uses: 1. "female pudenda" (c.1845), which might be back-slang from fan, shortening of fanny (in the British sense); 2." — http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=naff
17:38 < kanzure> alright then
17:39 < chris_99> heh
17:40 < nmz787_i1> 'and an adjective naff "vulgar, common, despicable," said to have been used in 1960s British gay slang for "unlovely" and thence adopted into the slangs of the theater and the armed forces.'
17:41 < nmz787_i1> my empiricism says you were either in the theater or military then
17:41 < kanzure> or the uk
17:41 < chris_99> haha
17:41 < kanzure> set your expectations lower
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18:05 < kanzure> docker container stuff https://github.com/vishvananda/wormhole
18:05 < kanzure> "Create a local port that runs a remote mysql on connection" ./wormhole create url :3306 trigger tunnel myserver trigger docker-run wormhole/mysql
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18:33 < dingo> hehe
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18:34 < dingo> 18:51 < chris_99> yeah i've used it before, i want threads though
18:35 < dingo> so you need threads when the shared data is very tight... you need all threads working with all the same memory, you absolutely need threads and not processes
18:35 < dingo> but the solaris term of threads, "light-weight processes (LWP)" is a farce, i don't believe in it anymore
18:36 < dingo> if you are doing map/reduce type things, it depends on the size of the calculation, if it is *many items* with *many short calculations*, then the overhead of IPC will slow it down -- the master process will be so damn busy delegating work and gathering results it will become the bottleneck
18:37 < dingo> in such cases threads are good, you can use some mechanisms to divide large chunks of work without actually transferring the data, just indicating their start/end sections
18:37 < dingo> but if the input is nothing more than "here is an ID" and your output is "it is done", say the actual data is from a database or restful api, then multiprocessing is fantastic
18:41 < dingo> also you can use 'multiprocessing.dummy' to write MP-like code, but uses threads, and use only threads, then simply change the import and test multiprocesses instead. and maybe try both proc/threads in jython, for example, very trivially changing only the import line
18:44 < kanzure> dingo is teamcity still sane
18:46 < dingo> depends how much you value your time
18:46 < kanzure> let's say it's a premium
18:47 < dingo> overall, yes. I would like to use it myself for open source projects, but I don't want to pay the cost of it.
18:47 < kanzure> isn't it free
18:47 < dingo> I could easily set up a multi-environment build system with teamcity in far less time than pybuildbot or jenkins
18:47 < kanzure> it gives a few build agent thingies http://www.jetbrains.com/teamcity/features/
18:47 < dingo> no, i don't think so.
18:47 < kanzure> oh sure, i am never touching jenkins again
18:47 < kanzure> http://www.jetbrains.com/teamcity/download/
18:48 < dingo> "The only restriction is a maximum of 20 build configurations" --- and, implied -- *one* agent
18:48 < dingo> my need for python pexpect is to have build agents on solaris, freebsd, linux, and mac -- that's four build agents, which i think is like $400/yr
18:49 < kanzure> "By default, each TeamCity installation runs under a Professional Server license including 3 build agents"
18:49 < kanzure> i keep forgetting if circle-ci and travis-ci are the same products
18:49 < dingo> ahh i see, you're right. i was deceived.
18:49 < kanzure> i wonder if that's 3 total... or 3 at a single time.
18:49 < kanzure> like... use their rest api to switch it out :p
18:49 < dingo> total, not parallel execution
18:50 < dingo> something annoying ... only one job per agent
18:50 < dingo> so if you want 20 parallel jobs, you need 20 agents
18:50 < kanzure> i wonder why jenkins sucks so bad
18:50 < kanzure> what went wrong?
18:50 < dingo> its authored by sysadmins, for sysadmins
18:50 < dingo> its just a gui cronjob
18:51 < dingo> teamcity looks at the time/cost/labor/revenue perspective, with the purpose of solving problems in the core product, not "providing a framework -- you can write your own plugins, its easy!"
18:51 < kanzure> "do all the work with none of the credit!"
18:52 < kanzure> hm
18:52 < dingo> the interface is for dummies, which is good. even i'm a dummy in some states
18:53 < dingo> i'll have to stand up a teamcity for pexpect, i could do everything but linux, at least. and although i haven't tried it, i've run into posts about github integration.
18:53 < dingo> it could afford me a freebsd, mac, and opensolaris agent, that would be a huge win -- travis-ci can do the linux for me
18:53 < kanzure> "would be a huge win" careful you are talking like them now
18:54 < dingo> oh man i had such a day
18:54 < dingo> i announced my resignation w/rm, i was suprised, they seem willing to make an effort to keep me
18:54 < dingo> i should try it out, see how far it goes, they even talked about possibility of consultancy
18:54 < dingo> it would be the smart thing to do -- to push it anyway, and still not take it, but show it to my next employer to gain a higher wage
18:55 < dingo> anyway i spent a whole day being careful with my words. I'm not one to be careful with my words. it was hard.
18:55 < dingo> anyway i said the decision is final. i don't want to negotiate, i've burned out, i need rest!
18:56 < dingo> feeling a bit flattered they would consider making an effort to keep me, i didn't expect that
18:56 < kanzure> i think frank is the only one i would negotiate through in that situation
18:57 < dingo> that's exactly who i spoke with first and who made such offers. my direct manager who you don't know, was like, "What should *I* do? Should I stay?" lol
18:57 < dingo> you know they let go of MM friday
18:57 < kanzure> oh really
18:58 < dingo> they sortof demoted him to chief architect a month or so ago, but then they decided they were paying way too much for the guy to write python and rst docs
18:58 < kanzure> although i might agree with that sentiment, i doubt that was their decision process
18:58 < dingo> well the new guy in town wanted him gone. the new guy on top is the reason i'm going. he's a shill. he only wants to work with yes-men, and marco isn't one, so he had to go.
18:59 < kanzure> oh strange
18:59 < dingo> and i think it was very much a demonstration of power to ensure he left in a dishonerable way that he was
18:59 < dingo> i spent all weekend doing backups and password changes and preparing to be walked out the door
19:25 < nmz787> i had a weird dilbert moment the other day
19:25 < nmz787> well, last week I guess
19:26 < nmz787> after 6 mos manager's manager realizes I work from home sometimes and alerts that as a contractor I cannot do this
19:26 < kanzure> wasn't dilbert directly derivative of characters working at intel
19:26 < kanzure> or pacbell or something
19:28 < nmz787> and then someone says there are password-protected excel macros that they need to get permission to give us, and when I copy some non-password protected macros from said file I got in trouble my response was, well they weren't protected, so how did I do wrong... but that didn't make sense to them.
19:30 < kanzure> oh wow authorization to use excel macros
19:30 < kanzure> that's fucked up
19:31 < kanzure> i bet i could sell ldap-backed macro authorization plus https://datanitro.com/
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20:53 < juri_> fenn: we should talk more.
20:53 < kanzure> i don't think he's among us anymore
20:54 < juri_> reh?
20:56 < juri_> what happened?
20:57 < dingo> some people cling to excel -- a lot of the intention of macros and password-protection is to ensure all changes go through a certain person -- that certain person must justify their existance and the excel is their means to justify it.
21:05 < kanzure> juri_: he decided to live among the submarine people and eschew irc
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21:21 < juri_> interesting.
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--- Log closed Tue Sep 23 00:00:48 2014