--- Log opened Mon Oct 06 00:00:01 2014
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02:12 < archels> streety: yeah, an e-mail account for usage via the tor network
02:20 < archels> kanzure: where's that neuro stuff pasted from?
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03:53 < superkuh> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8413393 partially.
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04:14 < archels> yeah was just wondering if there was a neuroscience channel on IRC that I wasn't aware of
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05:13 < kanzure> archels: from pm
05:13 < kanzure> archels: i know simonster because of zotero things
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05:26 < archels> ah
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05:36 < kanzure> http://nelenkov.blogspot.it/2014/10/revisiting-android-disk-encryption.html
05:38 < kanzure> "Android has included full disk encryption (FDE) support since version 3.0, but versions prior to 4.4 used a fairly easy to bruteforce key derivation function (PBKDF2 with 2000 iterations). Additionally, because the disk encryption password is the same as the lockscreen one, most users tend to use simple PINs or passwords (unless a device administrator enforces password complexity rules), which further facilitates bruteforcing. Android 4.4 ...
05:38 < kanzure> ... replaced the disk encryption KDF with scrypt, which is much harder to crack and cannot be implemented efficiently on off-the-shelf GPU hardware. In addition to enabling FDE out of the box, Android L is expected to include hardware protection for disk encryption keys, as well as  hardware acceleration for encrypted disk access. These two features should make FDE on Android both more secure and much faster."
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05:51 < kanzure> 21:36 <kanzure> that's not encouraging at all
05:51 < kanzure> 21:38 <simonster> no, not really. this is why no one has done anything with primate opto besides show that it sometimes works
05:51 < kanzure> 21:38 <simonster> it's possible ultrasound could work better, since it could affect more cells at once
05:51 < kanzure> 21:39 <simonster> but it works by making things vibrate so there are more confounds
05:51 < kanzure> 21:40 <simonster> if you're recording from a neuron and it starts firing when you turn the transducer on, it could be because you're making the electrode vibrate or because the monkey can feel the vibration
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07:40 < kanzure> "The Sigma-Aldrich website is currently off-line due to unforseen technical difficulties."
07:40 < kanzure> hehe merck can't maintain a website
07:41 < drethelin> pharama is surprisingly un net savvy
07:42 < drethelin> like, would you think invitrogen owns lipofectamine.com?
07:42 < kanzure> am i supposed to think that?
07:43 < drethelin> I guess not if you don't know anything about the transfection market
07:43 < kanzure> seems to be owned by some jerk named drethelin
07:43 < kanzure> oh wait
07:43 < kanzure> oh
07:43 < drethelin> it's the market dominant company and the name of their biggest reagent
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07:43 < kanzure> well, it's not like biologists are sitting behind computers 24/7 looking up reagents
07:43 < kanzure> as much as i'd like them to be
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07:45 < drethelin2> also: we once got early word of a lawsuit due to mirus putting a page about it on a google crawlable staging server
07:46 < kanzure> who is "we"?
07:46 < drethelin2> my dad's company
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07:48 < kanzure> go on
07:48 < drethelin2> fugent llc
07:48 < drethelin2> it didn't end up mattering much, I think
07:48 < drethelin2> but it was still pretty funny
07:48 < drethelin2> to get a google alert and go "huh, I didn't know we were currently being sued"
07:49 < kanzure> don't i know you from a bitcoin thing..
07:49 < kanzure> let's see..
07:49 < kanzure> oh i met you in 2012?
07:49 < drethelin2> if you were at one of the pre-cfar minicamp things then possible!
07:49 < drethelin2> possibly
07:49 < kanzure> nope seems to be something in 2012 about bitcoin and lesswrong
07:49 < drethelin2> otherwise you might remember me from #lesswrong
07:50 < kanzure> and quantified self
07:51 < kanzure> drethelin2: sounds like an interesting company
07:51 < kanzure> "Fugent, LLC develops and manufactures biotechnology reagents, particularly new reagent products for the health, research, and science markets. The company was founded in Madison in 1995, and now employs 15 people, including researchers in the areas of organic chemistry, molecular biology, transfection, and chromatography, including HPLC columns development and manufacturing. "
07:52 < kanzure> drethelin2: have you seen the dna synthesizer projects floating around here? http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/nucleic/fbi-diybio-dna-v1.pdf
07:53 < drethelin2> bleh my interent is being wretched
07:53 < drethelin2> that pdf is taking forever to load
07:53 < drethelin2> and no I have not, thanks
07:54 < drethelin2> ooh I like that chart
07:54 < drethelin2> remidns me of how my dad thinks
07:54 < drethelin2> "find a bottleneck and solve it" is his business model
07:55 < kanzure> well how about this, licensing is a bottleneck
08:00 < kanzure> specifically i mean in the reagent space
08:10 < drethelin2> hmm
08:10 < drethelin2> I mean, I think we currently sell fugene with no licensing stipulations
08:10 < drethelin2> but I'm not sure how everyone else does it'
08:11 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone
08:13 < kanzure> drethelin2: well there's at least two things i can imagine there, one is when you sell the actual reagents you might be selling a license at the same time, but the other is one where other companies are licensing the tech without actually receiving supply from you
08:13 < drethelin2> hi
08:13 < drethelin2> Kanzure: that wouldn't work for us, due to trade secrets but I could see it being a legitimate thing for other manufacturers
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08:15 < kanzure> drethelin2: everything is trade secrets at fugent?
08:16 < kanzure> ParahSailin: ping
08:20 < drethelin2> kanzure, yes
08:20 < drethelin2> well, and trademark
08:20 < drethelin2> and probably for the foreseeable future considering how little my dad trusts the IP system
08:22 < kanzure> trademark law seems to work surprisingly well
08:22 < kanzure> and also does not seem to be stupid
08:22 < kanzure> compared to copyright law problems and patent law problems
08:25 < drethelin2> yeah
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12:33 < nmz787_i> http://www.oxford-instruments.com/OxfordInstruments/media/nanoanalysis/brochures%20and%20thumbs/EBSD-Application-Note_T-EBSD.pdf
12:35 < kanzure> 12:32 <+LadyJessica> I cracked up at the idea of Charlie Stross being the fat IT dude from Scotland in the Fellowship.
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12:45 < nmz787_i> http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=10950
12:45 < nmz787_i> .title
12:45 < yoleaux> nmz787_i: Sorry, that command (.title) crashed.
12:46 < nmz787_i> 'Using Transmission Kikuchi Diffraction as a SEM Based Method'
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13:55 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1590347
13:56 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Mycoplasma%20gallisepticum%20Vaccination%3A%20Effects%20on%20Egg%20Transmission%20and%20Egg%20production.txt
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14:17 < delinquentme> kanzure, "world-to-chip" is a solved thing right?
14:17 < kanzure> depends on your definition of solved...
14:18 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/
14:18 < delinquentme> I was talking to a guy whos doing mVLSI or " really dense microfluidic arrays" ... and then carlo q showed me some images of quakes labs
14:18 < delinquentme> and the "shit that runs the devices" was just blargh.
14:18 < delinquentme> huge, stupid, unnecessary
14:18 < kanzure> lots of pumps. yep..
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14:19 < delinquentme> so a large number of those pumps could be replaced w valves
14:19 < delinquentme> valves could be operated w solenoids
14:19 < kanzure> valves don't pump
14:19 < delinquentme> true!
14:19 < delinquentme> but valves can direct the existing pumping force
14:19 < delinquentme> btw im sitting in The Interval
14:19 < delinquentme> its cool
14:20 < kanzure> i don't know what an interval sitting is
14:20 < delinquentme> but lots of flies . lulz
14:20 < delinquentme> https://longnow.org/interval/
14:20 < delinquentme> this guy
14:20 < kanzure> .title
14:20 < yoleaux> The Interval at Long Now - The Long Now
14:20 < kanzure> argh
14:21 < chris_99> a bar?
14:21 < delinquentme> anyways.  i was thinking if we've got people who are working on these massive arrays ... THOSE arrays can be used for routing ... and w the wild complexity we want in moving liquids ... that layer can be replaced by just compressing certain channels combinatorically
14:21 < delinquentme> its a coffee shop during the day... bar at night
14:21 < delinquentme> but if you guys want me to start drinking ill take donations
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14:22 < kanzure> i prefer the design that genehacker pointed out about picoarray synthesis through dmd projection
14:23 < kanzure> valveless design, just continuous flow
14:23 < delinquentme> anyways solenoids are cheap as shit and can be used to compress certain channels in these arrays and thus route fluids around
14:23 < drethelin> I want to go to the Interval sometime
14:23 < kanzure> i mean, the microfluidic chip itself had no valves, but there were macroscopic valves elsewhere of course (in the dna synthesizer machine)
14:23 < delinquentme> solenoids way cheaper than peristaltic pumps
14:23 < kanzure> routing fluid around on-chip is not as important as you might think
14:23 < kanzure> especially in the case of dna synthesis
14:23 < drethelin> If there ever was a bar that a transhumanist should make an eternal habit of visiting presumably it would be The Interval
14:23 < kanzure> non-synthesis tasks, maybe
14:24 < delinquentme> sure
14:24 < delinquentme> im just talking about getting adoption / usage of microfluidics up
14:24 < kanzure> why
14:24 < delinquentme> bc I think they're cool
14:25 < delinquentme> link to this picoarray dmd projection?
14:25 < kanzure> much rational
14:25 < kanzure> very wow
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14:25 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/synthesis/Synthesis%20-%20Microfluidic%20PicoArray%20synthesis%20of%20oligodeoxynucleotides%20and%20simultaneous%20assembling%20of%20multiple%20DNA%20sequences%20(10%20kb).pdf
14:32 < delinquentme> kanzure, so you're only looking at this for synthesis?
14:32 < kanzure> well, the setup can create non-synthesis-related circuits
14:32 < kanzure> because photopolymerization stuff
14:32 < kanzure> photomasking etc
14:34 < delinquentme> this is simply just "any photolithography " operation
14:35 < delinquentme> microfluidics is a version controlled machine
14:35 < delinquentme> this is why its interesting
14:35 < delinquentme> its our tecan ... but without all the proprietary shit
14:35 < delinquentme> relocating bc The Interval is small
14:37 < drethelin> so the interval is not optimized for hanging out in indefinitely?
14:37 < kanzure> seems sort of contrary to the long now foundation's goals
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15:12 < ParahSailin> kanzure: yo
15:12 < kanzure> ParahSailin: stalk drethelin
15:12 < ParahSailin> drethelin: whats your mother's maiden name?
15:13 < kanzure> no, i mean, read the backlog
15:14 < kanzure> ParahSailin: also, is there an antibody or antigen against mycoplasma gallisepticum that sheena can inject into her chickens
15:14 < ParahSailin> disappointed that cathal didnt have anything to say back to me
15:14 < ParahSailin> did someone here tell him that vegans are dumb?
15:14 < ParahSailin> er, that i said that vegans are dumb
15:16 < ParahSailin> why would someone inject something into a chicken
15:17 < ParahSailin> you get like a new chicken from an egg in 6 weeks
15:20 < kanzure> because it requires killing your whole flock
15:22 < drethelin> parasailin why do you ask
15:22 < drethelin> oh I see
15:22 < drethelin> I'm super easy to "stalk"
15:22 < drethelin> all it takes is mostly google
15:24 < kanzure> drethelin: we are going to hijack your antibody company
15:24 < kanzure> just fyi
15:25 < drethelin> we don't even haev one of those
15:26 < kanzure> what
15:26 < kanzure> why not
15:39 < drethelin> hmm
15:39 < drethelin> well the reason we don't sell most inventions my dad is capable of making (according to him) is IP and malicious law suit risks
15:40 < drethelin> but I don't know if he has any actual ideas in the field of antibodies
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15:42 < kanzure> drethelin: it's pretty simple, lots of "make some antibodies, sell for 10,000% the cost"
15:42 < nmz787_i> of course when I'm here to respond to delinquentme he's gone :/
15:43 < nmz787_i> heading to an FEI FIB usergroup meeting tomorrow and the next day
15:43 < nmz787_i> I think they're feeding me too, tomorrow
15:43 < nmz787_i> also AFAIK world-to-microfluidics doesn't exist as a product
15:44 < kanzure> lots of chewing gum solutions
15:44 < nmz787_i> but that is pretty much my first task when my drift-correction stuff works
15:45 < nmz787_i> since it will also allow me to step through different fields of view in the FIB and stich them together
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16:07 < drethelin> kanzure: yeah but what do you do if roche decides to sue you out of the market?
16:08 < drethelin> based  on an overbroad reading of one of the thousands of patents they own
16:08 < chris_99> nmz787_i, did you manage to parse that image from the FIB btw
16:18 < kanzure> drethelin: they can do that anyway even without a good reason (they just have to make the lawsuit last longer than you have a budget)
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16:32 < drethelin> Kanzure yeah
16:33 < drethelin> that is in fact a big worry for my dad
16:33 < drethelin> last time someone tried it the case was dismissed with prejudice  but that was a relatively small dog, if an order of magnitude or two bigger than us
16:34 < drethelin> another worry is that a judge can theoretically ask us to disclose formulae for existing products even in an unrelated case
16:35 < kanzure> public disclosure or just disclosure to the judge/court?
16:35 < drethelin> that's functionally the same if the judge/court have insufficient opsec
16:35 < drethelin> he's been screwed by the patent office before
16:36 < kanzure> have you eyelooked at https://www.transcriptic.com/platform/ ?
16:37 < drethelin> hmm
16:37 < drethelin> is it just pseudocode outsourcing of lab work?
16:37 < drethelin> or is there actually a machine doing all the different operations?
16:38 < kanzure> their facility has the equipment that executes the "code" (really it's just api calls and stuff)
16:38 < kanzure> so you mail in your samples
16:38 < drethelin> so you have to trust transcriptic.com and also the entire mail system not to fuck you up?
16:39 < kanzure> yes.
16:39 < kanzure> i'd trust well-maintained machines over a postdoc any day
16:39 < drethelin> I eant more in terms of security
16:39 < drethelin> than in execution
16:39 < drethelin> our own techs often fuck up execution
16:39 < kanzure> i imagine it's exactly the same as the "private cloud" craze, i suppose
16:39 < kanzure> big pharma will just want their own private implementation
16:40 < kanzure> "can it run openstack?" while drool gushes out of their mouth
16:40 < drethelin> that sort of thing can be surprisingly hard to actually implement
16:40 < kanzure> sure.
16:40 < kanzure> yes.
16:40 < drethelin> we have a machine that only fills, caps, and labels vials
16:40 < drethelin> no specific programming or anything
16:40 < drethelin> and yet it's taken tons of effort to get up and running
16:40 < kanzure> it is especially hard when you have to reverse engineer each machine separately
16:40 < drethelin> and still has like an 8 percent error rate
16:41 < jrayhawk_> 8 percent? holy damn
16:41 < kanzure> because the vendor has never heard of linux or some shit
16:41 < drethelin> jrayhawk_ yeah it's ridiculous
16:41 < drethelin> at least most of the errors are like, miss-cappings
16:41 < drethelin> rather than vials shattering
16:42 < drethelin> but you pretty much have to watch the machine like a hawk
16:42 < drethelin> or it will stick a label straight onto the flywheel
16:42 < drethelin> or whatever the fuck
16:43 < kanzure> so now you have to pay off for the machine plus an extra employee, hehe
16:43 < drethelin> pretty much
16:44 < drethelin> Roche apparently used to do dispensing into vials by hand
16:44 < drethelin> as of even just a few year ago
16:44 < drethelin> years ago
16:44 < drethelin> because the machines that exist can be so awful
16:44 < kanzure> well, i imagine their problems are a little different in scale
16:44 < drethelin> they had someone whose full time job it was
16:44 < kanzure> because they have this huge long-tail library of bullshit nobody has ever heard of
16:44 < drethelin> well no I meant specifically when they were one of our distributors
16:44 < kanzure> so something about reconfiguring the pipelines every once in a while based on actual orders or something, i assume
16:45 < drethelin> since that's the only part I heard about
16:45 < kanzure> also, most of the biotech hardware i have seen, for anything that doesn't appear on everyone's bench in all labs, tends to be from the 70s or 80s
16:45 < kanzure> and stuff that nobody has ever touched since
16:45 < kanzure> "what do you mean ram is cheap these days?"
16:46 < kanzure> those abi synthesizers are still based on the same designs from the dude that got the nobel prize for the concept, more or less
16:46 < kanzure> nobody's touched it
16:47 < drethelin> we use centrifuges from the 40s
16:47 < drethelin> because they don't make em like they used to
16:47 < drethelin> we retrofit them with modern temperature controllers and rpm meters and stuff
16:48 < drethelin> our lab equipment is actually like 99 percent used stuff that we've fixed up
16:48 < drethelin> because labx stuff is like an order of magnitude or so cheaper per unit
16:48 < kanzure> the auction site?
16:48 < drethelin> yeah
16:50 < kanzure> drethelin: here is a toy i bought recently https://www.takeitapart.com/guide/94
16:52 < drethelin> heh I have a very similar photo set somewhere  back in my photosetream
16:58 < justanotheruser> paperbot http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/je900105g
16:58 < justanotheruser> pls
16:58 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1021%2Fje900105g
16:58 < justanotheruser> thx
17:01 < ebowden> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23900721
17:01 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1007%2Fs12031-013-0075-8
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17:07 < drethelin> is paperbot a jailbreaking bot?
17:10 < kanzure> drethelin: https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot
17:10 < kanzure> dbolser: haha http://www.wired.com/2014/10/overstock-com-assembles-coders-build-bitcoin-like-stock-market/
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17:17 < kanzure> jrayhawk_: well i guess byrne is at least consistent
17:17 < kanzure> too bad he didn't take my phone calls, though. it's not like i'm /not/ a counterparty dev.. i've committed.
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17:22 < jrayhawk_> huh, cool that he actually grabbed reputable developers
17:23 < jrayhawk_> not to belittle you, i mean to disparaged all the jackasses that ran with their own blockchains
17:23 < jrayhawk_> s/disparaged/disparage/
17:24 < jrayhawk_> as you were complaining about with expertise, it's hard to work out what experts look like from the outside
17:27 < kanzure> not entirely reputable, to be honest
17:27 < kanzure> i mean, yes they have something that works
17:27 < jrayhawk_> and isn't a blatant cash grab
17:27 < kanzure> but look at the shit they write: https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/counterpartyd_build/blob/master/setup.py
17:27 < kanzure> this is their installation procedure -_-
17:28 < kanzure> i called them out on this and they told me they have "10 years of professional experience writing python"
17:28 < jrayhawk_> it shows
17:28 < kanzure> huh?
17:29 < jrayhawk_> they are clearly very deep into being programmers, because they sure aren't OS maintainers
17:29 < kanzure> that's the sort of code you write when you have spent zero seconds following standards or nothin'
17:30 < kanzure> it also means they have literally never seen any good implementation, too
17:31 < jrayhawk_> eh, this is the sort of reason distributions exist
17:31 < jrayhawk_> consistent policy is important, but everybody's never going to agree on the same policy
17:31 < kanzure> i can't even see the windows side of this; there are install wrappers on windows too...
17:32 < kanzure> that's fine, but this seems to be "ignore all possible policies"
17:32 < jrayhawk_> that's right, take the most naive solution possible because anyone who cares about it being done right will presumably either be using or maintaining a distribution-provided solution
17:32 < jrayhawk_> programmers are lazy, as well they should be
17:33 < kanzure> except that you can export a standard interface that the policies usually take advantage of
17:33 < jrayhawk_> not sure that's true with the database stuff
17:33 < jrayhawk_> a lot of this should be done in pip
17:34 < kanzure> yes, and then the separate distributions can do pip2deb or whatever insane hacks they each maintain
17:34 < kanzure> (of course, pip is really the insane component in that equation, but there's really nothing much better in python land, and i dunno if i can count wheels yet...)
17:35 < jrayhawk_> may be insane, but at least it's a standard and expected sort of insane
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18:43 < kanzure> .title
18:43 < yoleaux> counterpartyd_build/setup.py at master · CounterpartyXCP/counterpartyd_build · GitHub
18:43 < kanzure> .title http://itbbs.pconline.com.cn/diy/50643668.html
18:43 < yoleaux> 【任俺行黑科技系列之一】一步一步教你用3D打印机制作“巧克力迷你PC”，全部更新完毕！！_DIY极客营论坛_太平洋电脑网产品论坛
18:43 < kanzure> .title http://itbbs.pconline.com.cn/diy/50710602.html
18:43 < yoleaux> 【MIY任俺行黑科技系列之二】MAC PRO for ITX！完成度100% 手绘原稿+发布视频+MIY过程+最终效果图！_DIY极客营论坛_太平洋电脑网产品论坛
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19:18 < kanzure> Athrelon: hi
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19:21 < Athrelon> hi kanzure
19:21 < Athrelon> sleep time, unfortunately
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19:36 < ebowden> Can anyone identify this condition? http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/5/f/5f651_ORIG-ATM0hcc.jpg
19:36 < kanzure> too much irc, try starting with small 10 second breaks every 20 minutes
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19:53 < kanzure> "My favorite instance of emergent mailing list behavior was when a trouble maker named GUMBY created a "PLEASE-REMOVE-ME" mailing list, just for people who sent email to another entire mailing list asking to be removed from it, instead of sending their request to the administrator at mailing-list-name-REQUEST."
19:54 < kanzure> "Whenever somebody would make that faux-pas, he'd add them to the PLEASE-REMOVE-ME mailing list, and the emergent behavior was that those people would discuss amongst themselves the fact that they really wanted to be removed from the PLEASE-REMOVE-ME mailing list, until they eventually learned that the way to get removed from a mailing list was to simply send email to PLEASE-REMOVE-ME-REQUEST, instead of the entire mailing list. Worked like a ...
19:54 < kanzure> ... charm!"
19:54 < kanzure> from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8415603
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20:23 < kanzure> "Hi All, we (Berkeley Biolabs) are helping the team at SOS ventures and they've just launched their new DIY Bio accelerator in Downtown SF and they're accepting global applications.  It's super exciting to finally see a real accelerator for DIY Bio in SF, the first class starts this Jan and applications are due soon, so if you have an idea that you're working on and want to get funding SOS ventures is definitely worth applying to. The first ...
20:23 < kanzure> ... batch of companies out of Indie Bio (previously synbioaxlr8r) have been really successful, 4 out of 6 raised their first rounds (between $500k - $2M in the case of Muufri). Congrats to all the teams and apply :)  talked to Arvind and he said the he'll be looking at applications as they come in so earlier applications have a better chance of getting funded."
20:24 < kanzure> http://indieb.io/apply-to-sf/
20:24 < kanzure> funny how they are using diybio as a vehicle for biotech ventures now
20:24 < kanzure> might as well just drop the diybio aspects
20:24 < kanzure> seems like it would be easier
20:24 < kanzure> "Indie.Bio is a startup accelerator which focuses on entrepreneurs building technologies in or around the field of Biotech. It offers seed funding ($35,000), lab space as well as mentorship to help take an idea to a product."
20:24 < kanzure> $35k in sf? uh... that's very little.
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20:51 < delinquentme> oh look. another accelerator.
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21:02 < kanzure> "I think this is attempting to fix one particular instance of the more general problem: soft forks are a bad idea that we should just stop referring to. Indeed we should be building ways to prevent soft forks and turn them into hard forks. One way to do that would be to introduce a new rule that simply rejects blocks with an unknown version. In the event that the majority switches to making blocks of a new version this would trigger Matt's ...
21:02 < kanzure> ... fork detection logic and potentially shut down the node or at least ensure it no longer serves work, shutting down any attached miners."
21:02 < kanzure> "I believe I've laid out the argument for this quite a few times in the past and nobody has really disagreed, but still, the notion of a soft fork keeps cropping up. This patch attempts to fix the fact that in the case where we're no longer following the majority rule set we might accept transactions that the majority would reject, and thus end up mining blocks that (from our perspective) get re-orgd out. Effectively at that point the node ...
21:02 < kanzure> ... would have SPV-like security. But finding ourselves in this situation at all is the problem, not the interpretation of specific opcodes."
21:03 < kanzure> "Mike, I strongy disagree with your remarks on soft forks, and I'm unclear as to why you would have taken this position. Extending functionality by precluding otherwise meaningless transactions is a polite and reduced risk way to do new things which maximally respects people's ability to choose to not participate. Making it so that ever possible new feature requires universal flag day deployment for all wallets, miners, full nodes, merchants, ...
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21:04 < kanzure> ... etc... would be a great way to deadlock progress and create additional centeralziation (e.g. where local patches or forks carry additional cost). Some things may best be done that way, in spite of the costs, but for many the soft fork approach is simply superior even if you ignore most of the freedom of choice and consensus costs related to a hard fork change. So long as the soft fork behavior confines itself to activies which are ...
21:04 < kanzure> ... non-standard in the widely deployed network the risk of accidentally forking yourself is avoided. Avoiding issues like that is part of the planning cost of any softforking change."
21:04 < kanzure> "As I don't have any more potent way of adding sentiment to the stack than what Gregory Maxwell stated, i'd like to simply add: "Yeah, what he said". Bitcoin is still highly experimental is an observation in the standard disclaimer of the LTB network podcast and that is a GOOD thing. Agility and affordance to build Bitcoin is at stake and soft-forking is a tool with discrete utility to the development of this experiment that should not be as ...
21:04 < kanzure> ... casually dismissed as your earlier contribution, there are voices with a different stance and silence is not an indication of positive support of your position. It could simply be a preference for civility, calm and conflict aversion on the part of the silent."
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21:27 < Lemminkainen> paperbot http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/10430340360535751
21:28 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/4bf5e84afe1c558a429246bf94835ae1.txt
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21:59 < kanzure> https://www.genebygene.com/pages/research# "GeneByGene offers a similar test to 23andme for $200.  They won't analyze it for you. They just give you the raw data.  I don't think it's the exact same chip that 23andme uses but it should be pretty compatible. They also offer exome and whole genome sequencing if you're interested."
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21:59 < kanzure> "I was talking to one of the guys at retrogen that work with next-gen sequencing, and he said that they could probably get your entire genome in a single 900$ run. He also said that some other places would be better, but I believe those were academic centers"
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--- Log closed Tue Oct 07 00:00:02 2014