--- Log opened Thu Oct 16 00:00:13 2014 00:15 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:17 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:19 -!- archels [charl@unaffiliated/archels] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:22 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:24 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:31 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hthopfsmktoikogv] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:42 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-124-177-12-74.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:42 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:52 -!- hypron [~hypron@p8120-ipngn100105yosemiya.okinawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:57 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:02 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:04 -!- HEx1 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joined ##hplusroadmap 02:52 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-50-137-46-240.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:58 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:00 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:04 -!- |a| [~|d|@ip68-107-37-158.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:21 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:22 -!- |a| [~|d|@ip68-107-37-158.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:24 -!- |a| [~|d|@ip68-107-37-158.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:08 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:36 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-124-177-12-74.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:38 -!- weles [~mariusz@wsip-174-78-132-9.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:41 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-124-177-12-74.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:49 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:00 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:07 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-124-177-12-74.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:09 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:47 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-159-119.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:10 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-159-119.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:14 -!- top4o [~chatzilla@93.152.162.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:20 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:30 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:41 -!- cpopell2 [~cpopell@c-76-26-144-132.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:42 -!- cpopell [~cpopell@c-76-26-144-132.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:45 -!- sheena [~home@S0106c8be196316d1.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:05 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-124-177-12-74.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:10 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-124-177-12-74.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:17 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:20 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:49 -!- sheena [~home@S0106c8be196316d1.ok.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:53 < kanzure> proof-of-concept for attacking that drupal 7 vulnerability http://milankragujevic.com/post/66 08:20 < kanzure> huh, 23andme acquired curetogether back in 2012 08:42 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:01 -!- weles [~mariusz@wsip-174-78-132-9.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:20 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:21 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:28 -!- sheena [~home@S0106c8be196316d1.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:29 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:31 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:40 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:46 -!- weles [~mariusz@wsip-174-78-132-9.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:49 -!- archels [charl@unaffiliated/archels] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:49 -!- archels [charl@toad.stack.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:05 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:06 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:13 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@8-12.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:13 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@192.55.54.36] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:15 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:19 -!- nmz787_i1 [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-qhrscgcpmzsvpnyv] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:19 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:19 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@192.55.54.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:26 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:28 < JayDugger> .wik ecdsa 10:28 < yoleaux> "In cryptography, the Elliptic Curve Digital Signature Algorithm (ECDSA) offers a variant of the Digital Signature Algorithm (DSA) which uses elliptic curve cryptography." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECDSA 10:30 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:36 -!- |a| is now known as Jingo_Fett 10:36 -!- bkero [~bkero@osuosl/staff/bkero] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:36 < kjskjskjs> 17:36 Ignoring JOINS PARTS from ##hplusroadmap 10:36 < chris_99> ? 10:38 < kjskjskjs> (thought it might be useful to anyone else who wasn't already doing it) 10:38 < kanzure> yeah bunch of jerks in here :( 10:41 -!- sheena [~home@S0106c8be196316d1.ok.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:42 -!- Jingo_Fett [~|d|@ip68-107-37-158.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:44 -!- Jingo_Fett [~|d|@ip68-107-37-158.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:46 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@8-12.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:51 < kjskjskjs> oh, I guess I really need JOINS PARTS QUITS? 10:54 -!- pete4242 [~smuxi@boole.london.hackspace.org.uk] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:58 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@8-12.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:02 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@8-12.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 11:06 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:09 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:20 < kanzure> yeah i'm not actually sure why everyone is so noisy in here 11:21 < kanzure> should i just start banning offenders? 11:23 -!- sheena [~home@S0106c8be196316d1.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:25 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:27 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:31 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:00 -!- sapiosexual [~sapiosexu@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: No calling card for the unsung bard] 12:01 -!- sapiosexual [~sapiosexu@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:02 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:03 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@88.252.235.148] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:03 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@88.252.235.148] has quit [Changing host] 12:03 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:03 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:06 < nmz787_i1> noisy as in what? 12:06 < nmz787_i1> logging in and out repeatedly? 12:09 < kanzure> parts, joins, quits 12:10 < nmz787_i1> isn't that ISP dependent? 12:11 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:12 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:16 -!- EOF [~EOF@109.162.181.128] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:18 -!- EOF [~EOF@109.162.181.128] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:24 < fenn> chirp chirp 12:30 < fenn> one observer's noise is another's signal 12:37 < kanzure> kanzure@raichu:~/local/jotmuch/jotmuch$ ./jot count 12:37 < kanzure> 1598 12:38 < kanzure> things that are worth reading: 12:38 < kanzure> "Practical delegation of computation using multiple servers" http://www.cs.tau.ac.il/~benriva/ccs11.pdf 12:38 < kanzure> "VerSum: Verifiable computations over large public logs" http://people.csail.mit.edu/nickolai/papers/vandenhooff-versum.pdf 12:38 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/futurism/Who%20steers%20who%20steers%3f%20A%20note%20on%20identifying%20vulnerable%20moral%20propensities.pdf 12:39 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/incentives/Analysing%20the%20security%20of%20incentive%20schemes%20in%20p2p-based%20file-sharing%20systems.pdf 12:40 < fenn> THE BLOCKCHAIN IS TRUTH! ALWAYS TRUST THE BLOCKCHAIN! HEIL HEIL HEIL 12:40 < kanzure> well not /always/ 12:41 < kanzure> it's an anti-replay oracle that has some various failure modes 12:41 < fenn> i'm just quoting the video you linked 12:41 < kanzure> oh, the last uh half of the video is totally wrong 12:42 < fenn> http://youtube.com/watch?v=YIVAluSL9SU&t=2m40s (am i doing that right) 12:43 < kanzure> damn that's before half 12:43 < kanzure> "votes during elections".. so hyped up vote buying. got it. 12:44 < fenn> i'm not really following how one "each unit is individually programmable" 12:44 < kanzure> they are lying/wrong 12:44 < kanzure> transactions have scripts with a variety of opcodes available, like for defining redemption requirements (number of signatures required, which signatures, etc.) 12:52 < kanzure> if you want an only somewhat non-technical thing to watch for a few hours, this is not a total waste of time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUNGFZDO8mM&t=13m10s 12:57 < kanzure> or the transcript version i guess http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/andreas-antonopolous-canada-senate-bitcoin/ 12:57 < kanzure> i forgot about that 12:57 < fenn> is it too much to ask why i would want to watch that? 12:58 < kanzure> well it's not every day that you see someone taking on 12 senators successfully 12:58 < kanzure> since there's a transcript there's practically no reason to watch it 12:59 < fenn> oh well he is "THE bitcoin guru" 13:00 < kanzure> they are senators give them a break 13:00 < fenn> the canadian senate bears a strong resemblance to a school board meeting 13:01 < kanzure> probably all committees and boards look exactly the same 13:02 -!- weles [~mariusz@wsip-174-78-132-9.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:02 < fenn> well it's always good to reinforce one's stereotypes 13:02 < fenn> i mean, dump more covariant data into the ol' biological learning algorithm 13:03 < fenn> ok he lost me at "security and decentralization seemed like contrary concepts" 13:08 < fenn> is it true that one can submit a video transcript to youtube and it will auto-sync the transcript to the audio as subtitles? 13:08 < kanzure> dunno, sounds like magic to me 13:09 < kanzure> oh, i didn't actually listen to or watch the "prepared remarks". anybody can write whatever they want ahead of time, that's less interesting. 13:10 < fenn> did you type this or just copypaste it from somewhere? 13:11 < kanzure> there is a

that says "Prepared remarks", those were read from a script 13:11 < kanzure> the other section was question-answer frmat 13:11 < kanzure> skip the prepared, pre-determined speech stuff. 13:12 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:20 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:34 < kjskjskjs> you should not ban offenders, I think, kanzure 13:34 < kjskjskjs> although I wonder how many people are here but never read it 13:34 < kjskjskjs> "QUITS" was not the right thing ot ignore 13:35 < kjskjskjs> in irssi anyway 13:38 < fenn> it's totally fair to kick someone for spamming quit/joins 13:41 < kjskjskjs> yeah, but nobody is 13:43 < fenn> agreed 13:46 < kjskjskjs> it's just that there are so many people here that a normal rate of ping timeouts for each one results in a high volume of quits and joins 13:49 < fenn> it's just the internet's way of reminding you that there are a potentially infinite number of lurkers 13:51 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:52 < kanzure> .dearest fenn http://www.gq.com/news-politics/newsmakers/201409/the-last-true-hermit?printable=true 13:54 < kanzure> .dearest fenn nuclear batteries for electronics https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8195223 13:55 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:08 -!- bkero [~bkero@216.151.13.66] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:09 -!- bkero [~bkero@216.151.13.66] has quit [Changing host] 14:09 -!- bkero [~bkero@osuosl/staff/bkero] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:15 -!- Athrelon [~Athrelon@207-172-207-66.c3-0.upd-ubr1.trpr-upd.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:26 < fenn> wuts dearest 14:27 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hthopfsmktoikogv] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 14:27 < fenn> .help dearest 14:27 < yoleaux> fenn: Sorry, no help is available for dearest. 14:27 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:28 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:29 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:30 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:35 < fenn> .dearest 14:36 < kanzure> well it was something like .tell or .to or something 14:37 < kanzure> .towhomitmayconcern 14:38 < kanzure> it probably doesn't exist 14:39 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:40 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:43 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:45 < fenn> "The tax system allows me to declare upon honor how to pay taxes, and then impose penalties upon me if I make that decision incorrectly." this is what i hate the most about taxes 14:47 -!- jim_ [~jim@23-118-32-116.lightspeed.moblal.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:49 < kanzure> it's a little weird that he had to explain to the senators how taxes work at all 14:50 < fenn> naw, politicians are basically just actors with a large advisory staff 14:50 < kanzure> "are we going to have to mandate that the tax authority must be paid in bitcoin?" 14:50 < kanzure> er, right, just like you force everyone to pay in shares/stocks/certificates/bonds/gold/houses/cars.. 14:51 < fenn> they usually want a check in $national_currency 14:51 < kanzure> exactly. 14:52 < fenn> assume you have two cows.. 14:52 < fenn> now start an internet domain name registry! 14:52 < kanzure> 10:00 < sipa> some programmers, when cobfronted with a problem think "i know, i'll use floating point!"; now they have 1.9999997 problems 14:53 < kanzure> s/problems/cows 14:56 < fenn> okay maybe that wasn't common knowledge: http://www.tucows.com/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_have_two_cows 14:56 < fenn> "see also: spherical cow" 14:57 < kanzure> "These examples were meant to show the limitations of the barter system" they were just not naggy enough 14:57 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:57 < fenn> .ety nag 14:57 < yoleaux> nag (v.): ""annoy by scolding," 1828, originally a dialectal word meaning "to gnaw" (1825), probably ultimately from a Scandinavian source (compare Old Norse gnaga "to complain," literally "to bite, gnaw," dialectal Swedish and Norwegian nagga "to …" — http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=nag 14:59 < kanzure> bitcoin brings out the weirdest people 14:59 < kanzure> the other day in #bitcoin someone was asking how the price is picked 14:59 < kanzure> it's a fair question, but it turns out the person didn't know how /any/ prices come to be at all. 14:59 < kanzure> (not just bitcoin prices) 14:59 < kanzure> so i guess a question about taxes isn't totally unfair 15:00 < fenn> it's the sort of thing that becomes less and less obvious the more you look at it 15:00 < fenn> price setting i mean 15:00 < kanzure> i like how all these banks with isda etc were setting the price of swaps 15:00 < kanzure> with committee names like "the fixing committee" 15:00 < kanzure> "but wait, isn't price fixing illegal?" 15:00 < fenn> is it? 15:01 < fenn> lots of prices are fixed by the government 15:01 < kanzure> hmm http://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/dealings-competitors/price-fixing 15:01 < kanzure> "terms. Generally, the antitrust laws require that each company establish prices and other terms on its own, without agreeing with a competitor. When consumers make choices about what products and services to buy, they expect that the price has been determined freely on the basis of supply and demand, not by an agreement among competitors." 15:02 < fenn> given a spherical consumer... 15:02 < kanzure> "In the United States, price fixing can be prosecuted as a criminal federal offense under section 1 of the Sherman Antitrust Act.[2]" 15:03 < drazak_> kanzure: fiat currency is very very strange 15:03 < kanzure> ".... Fixing the price of gold, oil, and other financial products will become a criminal offence by the end of the year, the government announced on Thursday as it published a consultation on extending rules already introduced for Libor rigging..." 15:03 < kanzure> hm well i guess the answer is no/hadn't been 15:04 < fenn> huh? why would anyone fix the price of gold 15:04 < fenn> it only makes sense for illiquid commodities 15:05 < fenn> or if there is a small number of sellers 15:05 < kanzure> "The banks -- Britain's Barclays and HSBC, Canada's Scotiabank and Societe Generale of France -- are all members of the Gold Fixing Company and agree the price twice daily. Germany's Deutsche Bank pulled out of the panel earlier this year." 15:05 < kanzure> http://news.yahoo.com/londons-scandal-hit-gold-price-fixing-under-spotlight-043506082.html 15:06 < kanzure> anyway this is some of the fallout of the libor scandal stuff http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/everything-is-rigged-the-biggest-financial-scandal-yet-20130425 15:07 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08 < kanzure> one possible answer is that if it's profitable to fix the price then it will be done 15:09 < fenn> reading that gold article it seems there were basically only 4 sellers of gold (the 4 major banks) 15:09 < kanzure> many contracts and other financial products are tied to that price, though 15:10 < kanzure> (by reference) 15:10 < kanzure> uhm, i shouldn't state that so strongly. just that, this is the reason why it's a concern. 15:10 < kanzure> possibly. 15:10 < kanzure> that's what was happening in libor according to those other articles. 15:12 < fenn> heh by matt taibbi 15:12 < kanzure> known name? 15:13 < fenn> known rabble-rouser 15:14 < kanzure> a trouser wencher, got it 15:15 < fenn> His July 2009 Rolling Stone article "The Great American Bubble Machine" described Goldman Sachs as "a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money".[1][11] The expression "Vampire Squids" has come to represent in financial and political media the perception of the financial and investment sector as entities 15:15 < fenn> that "sabotage production" and "sink the economy as they suck the life out of it in the form of rent. 15:16 < kanzure> he should tell them how he really feels about it 15:16 < jrayhawk_> oh yeah, so how'd that submarine thing go, anyway 15:17 < fenn> -_- 15:17 < kanzure> be nice 15:17 < kanzure> i didn't really elaborate on that 15:18 < fenn> it's rapidly approaching winter 15:21 -!- justanot1eruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:23 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:24 -!- kenju254 [~kenju254@static-41-242-0-196.ips.angani.co] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:28 -!- jim_ [~jim@23-118-32-116.lightspeed.moblal.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:28 -!- kenju254 [~kenju254@static-41-242-0-196.ips.angani.co] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:35 -!- drazak_ is now known as drazak 15:42 < heath> tiltbrush for oculus rift https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFWw6hGIKmc 15:43 < fenn> wow i had no idea 40% of kenya's GDP was exchanged in cellphone minutes 15:43 < kanzure> mpesa had a huge rapid takeoff 15:44 < kanzure> i get the feeling that people have been trying to make it happen in other countries but haven't been as successful? not sure. 15:45 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa 15:53 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=eec5d7ce fenn: fix typos and obvious transcription errors >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/andreas-antonopolous-canada-senate-bitcoin/ 15:57 < fenn> This meeting is concluded. Everyone get out. 16:04 < drethelin> no u 16:09 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:10 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:17 < kanzure> he said it the same way at the previous one too http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/SEN/Committee/412/banc/51608-e.htm?Language=E&Parl=41&Ses=2&comm_id=3 16:17 < kanzure> "This meeting is concluded." (then dead silence) 16:23 -!- justanot1eruser is now known as justanotheruser 17:02 < kanzure> hmm 17:03 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:07 < kanzure> "That's sad. Maybe you should flip this on your head. Go out and touch people. "If I had ebola I would have infected you just now. You should give money at A Day Without Touch to help Doctors Without Borders stop the outbreak."" 17:08 < nmz787_i1> hmm, I wonder if that synthesis group was one that went on to rais e500k 17:08 < kanzure> what was the total number of groups 17:10 < nmz787_i1> no idea 17:10 < kanzure> easy to stalk: 17:10 < nmz787_i1> but we know the muffri wans't one of the 500k raisers (they raised 2m) 17:10 < kanzure> 1) check angel.co 2) check crunchbase 3) check linkedin 4) eliminate the ones that aren't still doing the things that they were doing during the incubator's program's period 17:13 < kanzure> afineur, benthc labs, hyasynthbio, kilobaser, revbio, muufri 17:16 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:17 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:18 -!- nmz787_i1 [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-qhrscgcpmzsvpnyv] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:23 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:29 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:31 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:42 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:50 -!- xenmen [~xenmen@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:50 -!- sapiosexual [~sapiosexu@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:51 -!- xenmen [~xenmen@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52 -!- xenmen [~xenmen@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:55 < kanzure> hi xenmen 17:55 < xenmen> Hiya kanzure 17:56 < kjskjskjs> kanzure: what do you want to eliminate them from? 17:56 < kjskjskjs> hi krazra 17:56 < xenmen> (Come across any interesting automated agriculture news lately?) 17:57 < kjskjskjs> some friends of mine are doing an automated indoor grow controller thing 17:58 < kjskjskjs> a little arduino-based controller for people legally growing their own pot 17:58 < xenmen> a horto domi fork? or all novel 17:59 < kjskjskjs> their own design I think 17:59 < kjskjskjs> certainly their own code 18:00 < kjskjskjs> I wrote an immediate-mode menu system for it because I thought that storing the menu entries in RAM was both verbose/clumsy and a waste of resources 18:00 < xenmen> good on them, automate all the labour 18:00 < kjskjskjs> but they ended up not using it because they already had it working the clumsy way 18:01 < xenmen> they don't plan to touch it up later? 18:02 < kjskjskjs> we'll see 18:02 < xenmen> eh, I guess if the marginal power savings are small enough, they figure they don't need to care 18:02 < xenmen> and if there's other things they're doing then it may be the right approach 18:02 < kjskjskjs> yeah, I don't think they're worried about the Arduino next to the lights 18:02 < xenmen> ^yeah 18:03 < kjskjskjs> I think immediate-mode is probably more flexible on the Arduino 18:03 < kjskjskjs> I thought it was cool to be able to do a many-layer-deep menu system in about ten bytes of RAM 18:03 < xenmen> that... *is* pretty cool 18:05 < kanzure> xentrac are you just talking to yourself 18:05 -!- xenmen_ [~xenmen@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:05 < kjskjskjs> you would think, no? 18:06 < kjskjskjs> but no. 'zra' ≠ 'gen' 18:08 < kanzure> re: elimination, 18:08 < kanzure> nmz787's question was about which company received the $500k 18:08 < xenmen_> not everybody is into the demoscene, that may affect their appreciation... 18:08 < kanzure> so i suggested working backwards from known data 18:08 -!- xenmen [~xenmen@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:08 < kanzure> er, or forwards 18:09 < kjskjskjs> oh, I see 18:09 < xenmen_> I find that ascetic sense tends to coincide with technical sense, as far as code goes 18:10 < kanzure> yes there's lots of creative choice between "makes your eyes bleed" and "makes your eyes really bleed" 18:10 < kjskjskjs> xenmen_: if you're interested, http://canonical.org/~kragen/sw/dev3/weemenumain.cc 18:10 < xenmen_> well, alorithms designed by guys with a taste for fractals tends to be less readable in my experience :P 18:11 < kanzure> single letter variable names, you fail 18:11 < kjskjskjs> heh 18:11 < xenmen_> oh wow 18:11 < xenmen_> well, it's a small file 18:11 < kjskjskjs> I don't know if that was about weemenumain or about fractal guys but it is equally applicable :) 18:11 < xenmen_> so I can appreciate only typing one char for a variable name :P 18:12 < xenmen_> three and a half pages on my screen 18:12 < kjskjskjs> right, that's the user code 18:12 < kjskjskjs> and the terminal interface 18:12 < xenmen_> that's about the safe limit for having single-char local variable names 18:12 < kjskjskjs> the menu system itself is weemenu.h 18:13 < xenmen_> "Wee would like to play" 18:13 < kjskjskjs> I think I was going to go ahead and change one of the interfaces that currently uses templates back to using inheritance 18:13 < xenmen_> hm 18:13 < kanzure> ganked? 18:13 < kjskjskjs> which will increase the memory cost by another six or so bytes 18:14 < kjskjskjs> but would make it easier to use I think 18:14 < xenmen_> my anti-OOPsydaisy alarms are going off 18:14 < xenmen_> but if it works better 8V 18:14 < kjskjskjs> heh 18:14 < xenmen_> it's code that shouldn't need much maintenance anyway :P 18:14 < xenmen_> eh, 6 bytes 18:15 < kjskjskjs> so this code has a very clean separation between the menu maintenance logic, the code defining the menu, and the terminal interface 18:15 < kjskjskjs> and connecting those three parts is currently done at compile-time 18:15 < kjskjskjs> with templates 18:15 < xenmen_> if it's much easier to extend then yeah, might as well, if there's a chance of actually expanding it later 18:15 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:15 < kjskjskjs> but that has two costs 18:16 < kjskjskjs> one is that you have to say if (m.nest("Quit")) { instead of if (nest("Quit")) { 18:16 < kjskjskjs> the other is that you have to say 18:16 < kjskjskjs> weemenu >, 5> menu; 18:16 < kjskjskjs> and if you delete one of those two 5s, or change one of them to a different number, you get an incomprehensible error message 18:17 < xenmen_> "Cross Stream", "You drowned" 18:17 < xenmen_> hm 18:18 < xenmen_> is the total code base all that large? 18:18 < kjskjskjs> no 18:18 < xenmen_> not too much a problem, so long as you keep a warning comment above that line 18:18 < xenmen_> or some convention for pointing out magic lines 18:19 < xenmen_> one magic line versus a pile of spaghetti, not always a bad trade 18:19 < kjskjskjs> in this case it's one magic line versus increasing RAM footprint from I think 9 bytes to I think 16 bytes 18:20 < kjskjskjs> another alternative is that intsead of passing in my_noncurses I could just put the my_noncurses functions into the global namespace 18:20 < kjskjskjs> which is fine as long as you don't have the same program driving more than one display 18:20 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:22 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:22 -!- d4de^^ [~d4de@197.134.5.25] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:23 < kanzure> fenn: oh you did an actual transcript 18:24 < kanzure> fenn: so, thank you, but also, andreas emailed me and complained that i shouldn't have bothered because the senate will be publishing their own "official" transcript "soon". 18:26 -!- d4de^ [~d4de@197.134.5.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:27 -!- xenmen__ [~xenmen@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:28 < kanzure> .title https://github.com/docker/docker/issues/6396 18:28 < yoleaux> Forward ssh key agent into container · Issue #6396 · docker/docker · GitHub 18:30 -!- xenmen_ [~xenmen@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:37 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:40 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:45 < catern> man, windows support is gonna totally kill docker 18:46 < catern> can you even do windows administration with ssh? 18:47 < kanzure> sure: psexec, smbexec, winexe 18:47 < kanzure> 2/3 of that list is exploits, but *shrug* 18:49 < kanzure> (also it's not ssh, but you'll forgive me) 18:50 < catern> OK, but windows server should just be left alone, out in the cold, to slowly die 18:52 < catern> no-one should use it 18:52 < catern> docker should be linux-only 18:52 < catern> (i guess the BSDs can come along if they like) 18:52 < kanzure> oh also remexec, forgot about that implementation.. 19:00 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:05 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:33 < kjskjskjs> kill docker? why? 19:40 -!- Athrelon [~Athrelon@207-172-207-66.c3-0.upd-ubr1.trpr-upd.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:44 < dingo> don't forget wmi 19:45 < dingo> winexe is interesting in that it actually uploads a payload service, a sort of backdoor, via SMB :) 19:45 < dingo> authored by a security company, go figure 19:47 < kjskjskjs> "security" company 19:48 < dingo> ahh maybe im wrong, i must be confusing it with another 19:49 < kanzure> definitely backdoor-like 19:49 < kanzure> dce/rpc is pretty interesting 19:49 < kjskjskjs> "interesting"? 19:49 < kjskjskjs> as a case study of the Fallacies of Distributed Computing? 19:49 < kanzure> well those fallacies have allowed me to upload a backdoor thousands of times 19:49 < kanzure> as dingo well knows 19:50 < kanzure> dingo: how many test migrations do you think we did? just the developers 19:50 < dingo> given a login and password, winexe works from windows 2003 through 2013 19:51 < dingo> all of them 19:51 < dingo> 2013 had issues with the version you used, i helped port a newer version, WAF something 19:51 < kanzure> so fucked up 19:51 < kjskjskjs> so what can we do about that kind of thing? 19:51 < kanzure> i think for <2003 it required no password 19:51 < kjskjskjs> I understand that a lot of cellphones now are running seL4 19:52 < kjskjskjs> as a hypervisor over Linux 19:52 < kanzure> .g sel4 19:52 < yoleaux> http://ssrg.nicta.com/projects/seL4/ 19:52 < kanzure> yeah i want my phone to run more virtual machines for me 19:52 < dingo> the L4 variant, microkernel 19:52 < kanzure> there's an arm kvm branch of linux that should be merged into android's kernel eventually 19:52 < kjskjskjs> this keeps you from owning the broadband firmware by rooting the Linux task 19:52 < dingo> i think the problem is the other way around 19:53 < dingo> at least from a customer standpoint 19:53 < kanzure> i've been meaning to get my hands on broadband firmware... i want to poke around. 19:53 < dingo> that my cellphone company can root me, not that i can root the firmware :) 19:53 < kjskjskjs> customers aren't the ones installing seL4 on their phones 19:53 < kjskjskjs> baseband firmware I meant 19:53 < kjskjskjs> yeah, I would really like to be free from malicious baseband firmware 19:53 < dingo> agreed, whichever is opensource first is my next cell 19:53 < kanzure> "radio-related firmware" 19:54 < dingo> until then i'll continue using an iPod with silentcircle out-of-circle access 19:54 < dingo> which is free from baseband 19:54 < kanzure> mozilla had some js about this for their foxphone thing? 19:54 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:54 < kjskjskjs> js? 19:54 < kanzure> javascript 19:55 < dingo> from my google sofar the baseband of firefox OS is closed 19:55 < kanzure> bbrittain: i blame you 19:55 < kjskjskjs> they wrote their own baseband firmware in JS? :) 19:55 < kanzure> that's what i thought i saw, but i guess not... 19:55 < dingo> ahh, competiting arguments that it won't... trying to figure it out 19:56 < dingo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open-source_mobile_phones "All mobile phones have proprietary baseband (GSM module) firmware." 19:56 < kjskjskjs> I think baseband firmware has hard-real-time deadlines to meet, so JS is not suitable 19:57 < kanzure> https://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/dom/system/gonk/ril_worker.js 19:57 < dingo> its a ceperate CPU and "OS", a RTOS, typically its just forth code 19:57 < kjskjskjs> forth, really? 19:57 < dingo> i think we discovered the carrier IQ was in Forth 19:58 < dingo> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3388127 19:58 < yoleaux> Reverse-engineered CarrierIQ code (Forth) | Hacker News 19:58 < kjskjskjs> oh, the let in here reminds me 19:59 < kjskjskjs> does node do things like array comprehensions yet? 19:59 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:59 < kjskjskjs> I was just thinking that it would be fun to do more stuff in JS 20:00 < kanzure> coffeescript does array comprehensions :P 20:00 < kjskjskjs> of course it does 20:00 < kjskjskjs> implicitly at times 20:00 < kjskjskjs> even when you wish it wouldn't 20:00 < dingo> no final word on the code, but some talk about my biggest feare, that many baseband cpu's have unrestricted access to applicate cpu's memory, https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/woot12/woot12-final24.pdf 20:00 < kanzure> in a file named "woot12" 20:00 < dingo> some better talk in here, http://www.osnews.com/story/27416/The_second_operating_system_hiding_in_every_mobile_phone 20:00 < dingo> woot is a group 20:01 < kanzure> yoinked 20:01 < kjskjskjs> woot are many things 20:01 < dingo> w00t security or something 20:02 < dingo> oh this particular thing is just the name of the conference 20:02 < dingo> https://www.usenix.org/conference/woot12 20:03 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:05 < dingo> anyway here's a web-accessible mirror of the winexe-waf i compiled recently for win2013 support, https://github.com/opinkerfi/winexe-waf 20:05 < dingo> i'm pulling out of this convo :) ttyl 20:06 < kanzure> seeya 20:09 < kanzure> i should really finish reading http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/VerSum:%20Verifiable%20computations%20over%20large%20public%20logs.pdf 20:10 < kjskjskjs> yeah 20:10 < kjskjskjs> there are so many things to learn right now 20:10 < kjskjskjs> instead I am reading twitter and getting dumped by SMS 20:33 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:43 -!- Vutral_ [~ss@31.7.56.134] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:48 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:50 < superkuh> f you read a paper that claimed they had 4.5 cm diameter 9.8 cm in long 2uF 5kV bipolar(?) *electrolytic* capacitor that could handle 80% voltage reversals in pulse discharge duty and each only cost $10 would you call bullshit? http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1063%2F1.4808309 Could such a thing even exist (ignoring the $10 price for now)? 20:50 < superkuh> +I 20:52 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:59 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:59 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:01 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:04 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:05 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:05 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:21 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:22 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:55 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:57 < kanzure> https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/wizards/2014-10-17.html 21:57 < kanzure> (more bitcoin stuff) 22:01 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:03 -!- streety [streety@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:ded6] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:15 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:25 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-124-177-12-74.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:30 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-124-177-12-74.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:34 -!- xenmen_ [~xenmen@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:35 -!- kumavis_ [~kumavis@107-219-148-42.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:36 -!- xenmen__ [~xenmen@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:38 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:45 -!- augur [~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:59 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:04 -!- beatzebub [~beatzebub@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:08 -!- xenmen_ [~xenmen@S0106b81619e8ecee.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: No calling card for the unsung bard] 23:10 -!- beatzebub is now known as Beatzebub 23:12 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:33 < kanzure> lazyweb throws together toguro videos for me? for free? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmGIvZmthPM&t=27s --- Log closed Fri Oct 17 00:00:14 2014