--- Log opened Mon Nov 03 00:00:39 2014
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00:25 < fenn> looks like lkcl went over to the dark side (i figured as much) "Pine Lawful Interception offers reliable Lawful Interception (LI) compliancy solutions"
00:26 < fenn> or the light side, or whatever you call it
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00:36 < delinquentme> FYI http://www.4combinator.com/
00:37 < fenn> whereforecombinator?
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00:40 < fenn> delinquentme: what is it?
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01:01 < delinquentme> fenn, accelerator by a dude whos sold commercial ventures in biotech / MEMS
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02:42 < ebowden> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16344348
02:42 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1001%2Farchneur.62.12.1904
02:49 < ebowden> paperbot: http://archneur.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=790033
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03:51 < fenn> CLOCKSS (Controlled LOCKSS) is a not-for-profit joint venture between the world’s leading academic publishers and research libraries whose mission is to build a sustainable, geographically distributed dark archive with which to ensure the long-term survival of Web-based scholarly publications for the benefit of the greater global research community.
03:51 < fenn> CLOCKSS is for the entire world's benefit. Content no longer available from any publisher ("triggered content") is available for free. CLOCKSS uniquely assigns this abandoned and orphaned content a Creative Commons license to ensure it remains available forever.
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04:04 < fenn> wow this is almost exactly what i want, and it actually exists! http://www.lockss.org/about/how-it-works/
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05:25 < ParahSailin_> http://www.customs.gov.cn/publish/portal0/tab3400/info5329.htm
05:29 < ParahSailin_> http://www.customs.gov.cn/publish/portal0/tab3400/info3194.htm
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06:12 < kanzure> fenn: er, that's nice, but wouldn't it be better if i don't have to wait 100 years?
06:17 < justanotheruser> kanzure: how long until I can stay awake my whole life?
06:17 < justanotheruser> *kanzoracle
06:23 < kanzure> you can certainly do that, but your lifespan will only continue for a week or something
06:27 < justanotheruser> pls
06:28 < justanotheruser> thesis: sleep is the worst medical problem humanity has. It reduces every humans lifespan by a third.
06:28 < justanotheruser> I reject sleep. Starting yesterday I am never sleeping again
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06:32 < archels> sorry, sleeping is an essential feature of our brain
06:32 < archels> even an uploaded minds needs to sleep
06:33 < archels> you can do some DNA tweaking to need a few hours less, maybe, but around 6 h is probably the lower limit
06:34 < kanzure> "However, killer whales and some other dolphins do not sleep during the first month of life.[114]" http://www.livescience.com/3885-insomnia-mania-newborn-mammals-sleep-month.html
06:35 < kanzure> "However, unlike other mammals, adult dolphins and whales are able to go without sleep for a month.[115][116]"
06:36 < archels> dolphins do that trick of sleeping with one hemisphere at a time
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06:38 < kanzure> "If one hemisphere is selectively deprived of sleep in an animal exhibiting unihemispheric sleep (one hemisphere is allowed to sleep freely but the other is awoken whenever it falls asleep), the amount of deep sleep will selectively increase in the hemisphere that was deprived of sleep when both hemispheres are allowed to sleep freely."
06:41 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unihemispheric_slow-wave_sleep
06:41 < kanzure> "Complete crossing of the nerves at the optic chiasm in birds has also stimulated research. Complete decussation of the optic tract has been seen as a method of ensuring the open eye strictly activates the contralateral hemisphere. Some evidence indicates that this alone is not enough as blindness would theoretically prevent USWS if retinal nerve stimuli was the sole player. However, USWS was still exhibited in blinded birds despite the ...
06:41 < kanzure> ... absence of visual input.[5]"
06:42 < kanzure> "To truly determine if birds can sleep in flight, recordings of brain activity must take place during flight instead of after landing. A method of recording brain activity in pigeons during flight has recently proven promising in that it could obtain an EEG of each hemisphere but for relatively short periods of time. Coupled with simulated windtunnels in a controlled setting, these new methods of measuring brain activity could elucidate the ...
06:42 < kanzure> ... truth behind whether or not birds sleep during flight.[8]"
06:43 < kanzure> oh brother, you mean nobody has mounted some recording devices to bird brains before they start migrating?
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06:53 < kanzure> http://www.technologyreview.com/news/532166/with-100-million-entrepreneur-sees-path-to-disrupt-medical-imaging/
06:53 < kanzure> .title
06:53 < yoleaux> Jonathan Rothberg’s New Startup Raises $100 Million for Chip-based Ultrasound | MIT Technology Review
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06:54 < kanzure> " He started and sold two DNA-sequencing companies, 454 and Ion Torrent Systems (see “The $2 Million Genome” and “A Semiconductor DNA Sequencer”), for more than $500 million. The profits have allowed Rothberg, who showed up for an interview wearing worn chinos and a tattered sailor’s belt, to ply the ocean on a 130-foot yacht named Gene Machine and to indulge high-concept hobbies like sequencing the DNA of mathematical geniuses."
06:54 < kanzure> "The imaging system is being developed by Butterfly Network, a three-year old company that is the furthest advanced of several ventures that Rothberg says will be coming out of 4Combinator, an incubator he has created to start and finance companies that combine medical sensors with a branch of artificial-intelligence science called deep learning."
06:54 < kanzure> "With the $100 million supplied by Rothberg and investors, which include Stanford University and Germany’s Aeris Capital, Butterfly appears to be placing the largest bet yet by any company on an emerging technology in which ultrasound emitters are etched directly onto a semiconductor wafer, alongside circuits and processors. The devices are known as “capacitive micro-machined ultrasound transducers,” or CMUTs."
06:55 < kanzure> "The idea for micromachined ultrasound chips dates to 1994, when Butrus Khuri-Yakub, a Stanford professor who advises Rothberg’s company, built the first one. But none have been a commercial success, despite a decade of interest by companies including General Electric and Philips. This is because they haven’t functioned reliably and have proved difficult to manufacture."
06:55 < kanzure> "“I set out to make a super-low-cost version of this $6 million machine, to make it 1,000 times cheaper, 1,000 times faster, and a hundred times more precise.”"
06:55 < kanzure> so he's aiming for a $6k ultrasound machine. that's not much cheaper than GE's $9k version....
06:56 < kanzure> "Rothberg says his incubator has started three other companies in addition to Butterfly, and he’s given each of them between $5 million and $20 million in seed capital. They include a biotechnology firm, Lam Therapeutics, working on treatments connected to tubular sclerosis; Hyperfine Research, a startup in stealth mode that hasn’t said what type of technology it is developing; and another company that’s unnamed."
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07:12 < kanzure> other commentary: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8549783
07:14 < chris_99> paperbot: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/ie50056a014
07:15 < kanzure> .title
07:15 < yoleaux> An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
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12:31 < kanzure> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/932664050/opentrons-open-source-rapid-prototyping-for-biolog
12:31 < kanzure> "we are the first start-up to come out of Genspace"
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12:34 < FourFire> Very interesting kanzure, just showed the people at my hackerspace
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12:36 < kanzure> cryptography export control enforcement http://www.foia.cia.gov/sites/default/files/DOC_0006231614.pdf
12:37 < kanzure> "It's definitely illegal to commercially export information in those areas as well, at least past some level of detail. For example it's illegal to sell missile or reactor blueprints without approval. It's not just selling the physical objects (missiles or reactors) that's illegal, but also selling the information on how to construct them."
12:37 < kanzure> selling reactor blueprints is illegal now? come on.
12:41 < weles> i wonder if it counts as export if the navy sends tomahawk missle into pakistan and it does not explode
12:42 < justanotheruser> 15:19 < sipa> i'm interested whether a hash function could be constructed that is secure against preimage attacks (or at least as good as current designs are assumed to be), but not secure against  collision at all
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12:56 < nmz787_i> that's basic ITAR
12:56 < nmz787_i> weles: well that's why they blew up that helicopter as they were leaving bin laden's house
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13:29 < delinquentme> do we have any kids inside @ scripps??
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13:30 < kanzure> nope not really
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13:54 < fenn> opentrons looks correct
13:55 < kanzure> i asked and apparently they have implemented https://www.transcriptic.com/platform/
13:55 < kanzure> i keep throwing them tough questions and they answer with good things
13:56 < fenn> how does it eject pipette tips?
13:56 < kanzure> https://github.com/Opentrons/OpenTrons/tree/master/3D-Print-STL/CAD%20Drawings
13:57 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/opentrons-biobot-1-0-assembly-guide.zip
13:57 < kanzure> https://www.synbiota.com/projects/535/workspace_pages
13:58 < fenn> i hate this new internet
13:58 < kanzure> "it all gets routed through bryan for some stupid reason"
13:58 < paperbot> ConnectionError: HTTPConnectionPool(host='localhost', port=1969): Max retries exceeded with url: /web (Caused by <class 'socket.error'>: [Errno 104] Connection reset by peer) (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/adapters.py", line 375, in send)
13:58 < paperbot> ConnectionError: HTTPConnectionPool(host='localhost', port=1969): Max retries exceeded with url: /web (Caused by <class 'socket.error'>: [Errno 104] Connection reset by peer) (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/adapters.py", line 375, in send)
13:59 < fenn> the routing tables were too fragmented so we deleted them
13:59 < paperbot> ConnectionError: HTTPConnectionPool(host='localhost', port=1969): Max retries exceeded with url: /web (Caused by <class 'socket.error'>: [Errno 104] Connection reset by peer) (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/adapters.py", line 375, in send)
13:59 < fenn> oh yeah your xpcshell process was going nuts
13:59 < kanzure> what happened?
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13:59 < fenn> dunno it was locked up for days; i tried to do some traces but didnt see anything enlightening
14:00 < fenn> process 10918
14:00 < kanzure> did you ill it?
14:01 < fenn> no
14:01 < kanzure> *kill
14:02 < kanzure> translators is at kanzure@raichu:~/local/zotero/translators$ git log
14:03 < kanzure> commit 59a7e7b50d9b1a03ce5ed8de266b39751b8fc070
14:03 < kanzure> oh man that broke
14:04 < kanzure> new translators: https://gist.github.com/kanzure/cfe1e3d1c2436fe2db30
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14:05 < kanzure> paperbot: http://archneur.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=790033
14:05 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1001%2Farchneur.62.12.1904
14:06 < fenn> it's still doing whatever it's doing
14:06 < kanzure> going wild?
14:06 < fenn> 100% CPU on PID 1997
14:07 < kanzure> hmm.
14:10 < kanzure> strace log https://gist.github.com/kanzure/af6444007e5cb4cccd7c
14:11 < fenn> i also saw just lots of gettimeofday, mutex lock and mutex release
14:13 < fenn> what connection is it waiting for? ETIMEDOUT (Connection timed out)
14:13 < fenn> HTTP server listening on *:1969
14:14 < kanzure> paperbot just asks that http server some questions once in a while
14:14 < kanzure> with typical http requests
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14:55 < delinquentme> im sitting in palo alto eating chez cake
14:55 < delinquentme> illumio is weh
14:55 < delinquentme> their secret sauce is basically internal machine reporting
14:55 < delinquentme> they have 50 million to do devops @ scale
14:56 < kanzure> pitch them openstack
14:56 < kanzure> and moving around workloads for data center weather events
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14:57 < delinquentme> not a bad idea
14:57 < delinquentme> except these datacenters are supposed to have electricity shit solved
14:58 < delinquentme> kanzure, I want to sell devops scripts to COMSOL
14:58 < delinquentme> i just shot an email to a few people working there
15:05 < kanzure> that sounds awful man, you want to voluntarily subject yourself to chef/puppet/ansible?
15:05 < kanzure> "devops scripts"
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15:14 < fenn> computer codes
15:15 < kanzure> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.org.eff.talk/Bi3iCRfasWE/3aA_QysKlLgJ
15:15 < paperbot> ConnectionError: HTTPConnectionPool(host='localhost', port=1969): Max retries exceeded with url: /web (Caused by <class 'socket.error'>: [Errno 111] Connection refused) (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/adapters.py", line 375, in send)
15:16 < kanzure> ATTENTION ALL INTERNET PERSONNEL
15:16 < kanzure> szabo@netcom.com HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS A CRYPTOANARCHIST CYBERSPACE INFILTRATION SITE TO A 93.67% DEGREE CERTAINTY VIA PSEUDOSPOOFING DETECTION SOFTWARE.
15:16 < kanzure> MAIL, POSTS, AND OTHER EMANATIONS FROM THIS OUTLET ARE CONSIDERED LIKELY TO BE HIGHLY SUBVERSIVE AND DANGEROUS CRYPTOANARCHIST DISINFORMATION AND PROPAGANDA FROM ONE OR MORE CRYPTOANARCHIST CO-CONSPIRATORS. MULTIPLE SENSITIVE INTERNET MAILING LISTS, FAQS, AND FORUMS HAVE BEEN CONTAMINATED.
15:16 < kanzure> - PROMOTION OF PSEUDOANONYMITY AND THE COLLECTION OF MULTIPLE FAKE CYBERSPACE IDENTITIES (MISTATED AS `PURE ANONYMITY')
15:16 -!- paperbot [~paperbot@131.252.130.248] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:16 < kanzure> - PROMOTION OF UNTRACEABLE `BLACK' CASH AND RELATED CRYPTOGRAPHIC TECHNIQUES (PARTICULARLY CHAUMIAN)
15:17 < kanzure> - PROMOTION OF THE `COLLAPSE OF GOVERNMENTS'
15:17 < kanzure> - PROMOTION OF PSYCHOTERRORISM AND PSYCHOLOGICAL WARFARE
15:17 < kanzure> - MANIPULATION AND TERRORISM IN PRIVATE MAIL
15:17 < kanzure> - COLLECTION OF SENSITIVE PRIVATE INFORMATION
15:17 < kanzure> INTERNET INDIVIDUALS AND ORGANIZATIONS ARE ADVISED TO EXAMINE AND PURGE ARCHIVES AND RECORDS OF ALL INFORMATION ORIGINATING FROM THIS OUTLET AS CRYPTOANARCHIST DISINFORMATION.
15:19 < kanzure> 93.67% DEGREE CERTAINTY (imperial units)
15:19 < fenn> i'm surprised there isnt actually an internet emergency broadcast system
15:20 < nmz787_i> this is neat http://www.chipworks.com/en/technical-competitive-analysis/resources/blog/intels-14-nm-parts-are-finally-here/
15:20 < fenn> it would insert that awful noise and "THIS IS A TEST" randomly into packets
15:20 < kanzure> ah yes the government-regulated awful noise
15:22 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Alert_System#Incidents
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15:23 < kanzure> "On February 11, 2013, hackers broke into the EAS networks in Great Falls, Montana and Marquette, Michigan to broadcast an emergency alert that zombies have risen from their graves in several counties in Montana and Michigan's Upper Peninsula. Stations KRTV in Great Falls, WBUP and WNMU-TV in Marquette broke into programming to broadcast the false alerts.[38][39] Details on the hacking incident remain unknown at present, though a ...
15:23 < kanzure> ... representative for Monroe Electronics, a maker and distributor of EAS equipment, mentioned that some stations do not change their logins or passwords, opting to use factory presets instead. Because of this, trade groups, including the Michigan Association of Broadcasters, urged broadcasters to change their passwords and to recheck their security measures.[40] On February 13, 2013, WIZM-FM in La Crosse, Wisconsin inadvertently triggered ...
15:23 < kanzure> ... the EAS on WKBT-DT by playing a recording of the fake alert during its morning show.[41] The alert was seemingly inspired by the Anthrax song Fight 'Em 'Til You Can't; the message relayed in the incident lifted a quote from the song's introduction about a zombie uprising."
15:24 < kanzure> had this been an actual zombie uprising....
15:25 < fenn> had this been an actual cryptoanarchist disinformation, oh.
15:26 < nmz787_i> http://www.asus.com/Phones/PadFone_mini_PF400CG/
15:26 < nmz787_i> strange concept
15:26 < fenn> ok that's dumb
15:26 < fenn> i'd rather have a lapdock
15:27 < nmz787_i> Phone:  4.0inches, WVGA 800x480, IPS with Capacitive Multi touch panelPad:  7.0 inches, WXGA 1280x800, IPS with Capacitive Multi touch panel
15:27 < nmz787_i> at least they have two batteries
15:27 < fenn> these hardware makers keep making stuff that only works with their products
15:28 < fenn> like everyone forgot about how PCs became popular
15:28 < nmz787_i> wasn't it some company taking a bunch of pre-existing ideas from various mfgs and integrating the concepts?
15:29 < fenn> IBM had such a huge market share that everyone who wanted to compete was forced to make their interfaces compatible with IBM stuff
15:29 < fenn> but then you could get all sorts of cross-compatible hardware and software
15:30 < fenn> padphone works with its tablet, that's it
15:32 < fenn> In the 2013 film World War Z, the Emergency Alert System was used by New Jersey State Police, instructing residents to seek shelter and to pack food enough for at least a week due to a zombie invasion.
15:32 < fenn> i wonder if the michigan/montana incident was a PR stunt
15:33 < nmz787_i> fenn: I'm not sure how you would want to use padfone for something other than it's phone+pad combo... would you want an HDMI-input port?
15:33 < kanzure> i dunno if pr firms are clever enough to buy 0days and vulnerability knowledge like that
15:34 < fenn> nmz787_i: yes, and USB, and have them connect with something flexible so the ports dont have to be perfectly aligned
15:35 < fenn> some phones have a mini hdmi port which is just perfect for this
15:37 < fenn> nmz787_i: the point is that other phones should be able to connect to the expander device (call it a pad if you want)
15:40 < nmz787_i> seems like it would be a bit inconvenient since you wouldn't easily be able to hold one item, but I guess it would work for tabletop situations
15:40 < nmz787_i> USB touchscreens don't seem like a thing in general
15:40 < fenn> i have this thing which is pretty well built, but the ports dont align with other phones so you have to get hard to find adapter cables (mini HDMI female to mini HDMI male) and besides i'm using it with a set-top box anyway http://media.engadget.com/img/products/462/9wlf/9wlf-800.jpg
15:41 < fenn> i have it velcro'd together
15:41 < nmz787_i> so that's a laptop-shell?
15:41 < nmz787_i> like, just HDMI in, and USB-out from the kb and mouse?
15:41 < fenn> it has a battery, speakers, keyboard, screen, touchpad, headphone ports, umm maybe wifi
15:42 < nmz787_i> what /is/ it?
15:42 < nmz787_i> (called)
15:42 < fenn> the only connections to the phone are hdmi and usb
15:42 < fenn> motorola lapdock
15:42 < fenn> it was discontinued when they stopped production of the phone it was supposed to go with
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15:44 < fenn> i guess i dont see the point of having a tablet that expands your phone
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15:46 < nmz787_i> yeah, especially when it isn't at leat 9 or 10 inches
15:46 < nmz787_i> and isn't 1080
15:47 < fenn> but why not just have a tablet instead
15:47 < kanzure> fenn did i show you the camera film microfluidics stuff
15:47 < fenn> no
15:47 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/optics/photolithography/Simple%20photolithographic%20rapid%20prototyping%20of%20microfluidic%20chips.pdf
15:47 < kanzure> here's what it looks like when you directly expose 16 mm film to objects ("the film was entirely developed and assembled in the dark room, using various bugs, organic elements, liquids, leafs, and bacteria growth in petri dishes laid directly onto the film") http://vimeo.com/89546954
15:48 < kanzure> same thing but microfiche instead http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/optics/photolithography/Using%20patterns%20in%20microfiche%20as%20photomasks%20for%2010-micron-scale%20microfabrication%20-%20Deng%20-%20Whitesides.pdf
15:51 < fenn> its just a contact mask made from 35mm film negatives?
15:51 < kanzure> photolithography mask
15:51 < kanzure> oh, photolithography masks can be contact masks, er, right
15:52 < nmz787_i> yeah
15:52 < nmz787_i> well
15:52 < nmz787_i> i heard about a loca guy today who said 'Also, if anyone needs to look at really tiny things, I now have a SEM in my living room.'
15:53 < nmz787_i> idk his level of DIY on that vs restoring an old piece of equipment
15:53 < nmz787_i> but I will ask
15:53 < nmz787_i> electron beam lithography is pretty high up on the quality scale
15:53 < nmz787_i> and apparently it is quite fast
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15:56 < fenn> so assuming you can make a PDMS stamp with this microfiche/film method, is 5 micron small enough feature size for useful integrated circuit photolithography?
15:57 < fenn> er, actually the stamp isnt necessary
15:58 < kanzure> i'm sure it could be useful for many things
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16:01 < kanzure> "Non-techs (including executives) in tech companies are basically 95% morons because the capable non-techs generally have better options in other industries."
16:03 < fenn> nmz787: did you ever make any diffraction gratings?
16:17 < nmz787> fenn: no but i do basically have a FIB that I can play on now pretty much whenever I want
16:17 < nmz787> there has been code written to convert a pattern file to a bitmap, but the reverse hasn't been written yet (though should be pretty easy now)
16:18 < fenn> uh, imagemagick
16:18 < nmz787> https://gist.github.com/jblake/160932cc4cd5b6f9e5a4
16:18 < nmz787> that is c++
16:18 < nmz787> i also have it in python
16:18 < nmz787> which is where I'm doing opencv stuff to analyze stage drift
16:18 < fenn> i didnt realize you guys worked together
16:19 < nmz787> this week and last i was working on an rs232 mouse to send clicks to re-center as i find drift
16:19 < kanzure> nah jblake is just helpful
16:19 < nmz787> it happens that the FIB is about halfway between my house and his, too
16:19 < nmz787> and that he did an internship at the FIB company at some point
16:20 < nmz787> and generally enjoys optics and math
16:20 < fenn> what a useless website http://www.jblake.org/
16:20 < kanzure> http://www.statictyping.org/
16:24 < kanzure> i should name my keyboard typing technique "static typing"
16:24 < fenn> this bitmap thing would be like 2 lines of numpy
16:25 < nmz787> as long as the output was correctly packed
16:25 < nmz787> the python is more readable
16:26 < fenn> ok i'll stop complaining now
16:26 < nmz787> fenn: I have this file open in my text editor now, I can't tell if it is the most up to date, but the first function looks like it is as it's relatively clean http://paste.pound-python.org/show/kvxjljSctvu4tYxdrr07/
16:27 < nmz787> note line 234 is a sys.exit
16:27 < nmz787> sorry i pasted the crap after it
16:28 < fenn> do you not use revision control?
16:28 < nmz787> just consider the first function
16:28 < fenn> or is this just hacking around
16:28 < nmz787> it was hacking mainly
16:29 < nmz787> but then i wasted a week trying to write h264 frames and evntually gave up with displaying each to the screen
16:29 < nmz787> since i just wanted a video playback of intermediate images, to see what order the pixels were in the file
16:29 < fenn> why h264
16:30 < nmz787> that's what all the video i watch these days is
16:30 < nmz787> so i figured i should be up to date
16:30 < fenn> mplayer mf://*.png
16:30 < nmz787> the only other that worked was uncompressed
16:30 < nmz787> but then i realized i was only doing every 1% of total pixels
16:30 < fenn> well i hope you learned something at least
16:30 < nmz787> so 100 images is nothing to display in succession
16:31 < nmz787> and that was much easier
16:31 < nmz787> :/ wish i hadn't wasted a week, but it is weird that h264 doesn't just work
16:31 < fenn> how many pixels are in a typical FIB etching run?
16:31 < nmz787> was getting all sorts of errors
16:31 < nmz787> only 1 meg of the 4096x4096 are able to be loaded at a time, so per pattern
16:31 < nmz787> probably actually 1024x1024
16:32 < fenn> 4096x4096 doesnt seem like enough
16:32 < nmz787> they could be 1nm pixels
16:32 < nmz787> or 1um
16:32 < nmz787> same grid no matter zoom
16:33 < nmz787> for more res, you need to step around the FOVs
16:33 < nmz787> err
16:33 < nmz787> if you want more res and you need more real estate than the FOV provides, you need to step around
16:34 < fenn> is there a term for resolution * FOV product?
16:34 < nmz787> like what the total diameter of the stage is?
16:35 < nmz787> you can only move the beam so much before you have to move the stage
16:35 < fenn> this tradeoff seems to be everywhere in different optical systems, but i dont know how to say just the overall amount of information encoded
16:35 < nmz787> nm/pixel?
16:35 < kanzure> ask jblake or steve
16:35 < fenn> maybe it's just "number of pixels"
16:36 < fenn> but that assumes you even have pixels at all
16:36 < nmz787> it's a round pixel ideally
16:36 < nmz787> but you also have astigmatism to correct for
16:37 < nmz787> it has an octopole if that helps
16:37 < nmz787> but idk if that influences beam shape
16:37 < nmz787> or just position
16:37 < nmz787> prob does slightly
16:37 < nmz787> idk how slightly
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16:48 < nmz787> fenn: I can try your pattern as soon as a converter is written and I get some free time
16:49 < fenn> heh i forget, did i actually make a pattern?
16:50 < nmz787> yeah something that constantly changed width and spacing, i think
16:50 < nmz787> or maybe just spacing
16:51 < fenn> both
16:51 < fenn> it's really hard to show on a monitor because the difference in scales is so big
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17:09 < fenn> nobody answered so i'm going with "spatial bandwidth"
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17:22 < kanzure> there is something wrong with the planet's rotational axis
17:22 < kanzure> why am i adjusting clocks this is bullshit
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17:30 < fenn> to adjust to mating cycle of the reptilians from sirius B
17:31 < fenn> it's the only logical explanation
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17:53 < delinquentme> topkek
17:53 < delinquentme> hue.
17:53 < delinquentme> lolol
17:54 < fenn> "A Turkish brand of small packaged muffins"?
17:55 < fenn> delinquentme: are you memetically ill?
17:57 < fenn> kek” emerges as a corruption of “lel”
17:58 < delinquentme> ^_^
17:58 < delinquentme> meeeeeeeeeee?
17:58 < delinquentme> yeah probabz
17:59 < delinquentme> kanzure, hotness in photolithography: computational mask generation
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18:07 < fenn> superKEK https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/KEKB_Belle_Detector.jpg
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18:24 < delinquentme> fenn!!!!!!!!!!
18:24 < delinquentme> SUPER KEK INDEED
18:25 < fenn> it's not done yet
18:27 < delinquentme> antikek
18:32 < delinquentme> ok so say that I want to generate microfluidic pathways ...
18:33 < delinquentme> topography is the mathematic discipline which would allow me to codify this stuff right?
18:39 < kanzure> graph theory, yo
18:43 < delinquentme> kanzure, you sure?
18:43 < delinquentme> I mean I could see " these are connected ... these arent "
18:47 < kanzure> .title https://home.comcast.net/~botronics/
18:47 < yoleaux> Bill's Art bots
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19:13 < fenn> delinquentme: topology
19:15 < fenn> kanzure i thought you hated that sort of blinking LED crafty stuff
19:17 < heath> delinquentme: if you're going to use topology, you might as well toss in haskell
19:18 < heath> augur can teach all its ways since he has so much time these days ;P
19:18 < heath> teach +you
19:18 < kanzure> fenn: yep...
19:18 < heath> k, back to the 1 year anniversary celebration thingy
19:19 < delinquentme> heath, whaaa?
19:19 < delinquentme> heath thats just a method for getting the math executed
19:19 < augur> heath: i have free time? oh dear
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19:20 < fenn> http://www.kellyheatonstudio.com/the-parallel-series-2004-2012-1
19:20 < fenn> .title http://vimeo.com/84070882
19:20 < yoleaux> The Night Tree in process (2012) on Vimeo
19:20 < nmz787_p> why not just CAD? you can represent your curves as equations, and then just join equations in a piece-wise fashion
19:20 < fenn> .title http://vimeo.com/84071875
19:20 < yoleaux> Restless Bird Chatters, Still Bird (2012) on Vimeo
19:22 < fenn> this set of circuits is more 3D and distributed http://vimeo.com/84094761
19:29 < fenn> i told the artist she should incorporate the capacitance of the viewer into the circuit somehow, to vary the pitch and/or timing of chirps
19:29 < fenn> real crickets stop chirping if you get near them
19:36 < kanzure> http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130914131429/p__/protagonist/images/1/16/Jiminy_Cricket_standing_up_to_Lampwick.png
20:24 -!- nmz787_p [d1982c1e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.152.44.30] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20:25 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/irc/Travel-money.jpg
20:27 < kanzure> "you see, the ink in this dollar bill gets you really high"
20:33 < kanzure> fenn: http://thepiratebay.se/search/knights%20of%20sidonia/0/99/0
20:34 < fenn> i was unimpressed with the anime
20:34 < kanzure> well it's better than his last one
20:35 < kanzure> bunch of still frames
20:35 < fenn> it is a remarkably close to the manga though
20:35 < fenn> they use way too much (100%?) cel-shaded 3d models, it's just something i can't get used to
20:36 < fenn> i didnt like appleseed 2004 either
20:37 < kanzure> i think if this continues to not be a complete failure that he will have enough clout to do a proper treatment of his other work
20:37 < fenn> i don't know if that's possible
20:38 < kanzure> sorry for getting your hopes up
20:38 < kanzure> back to sleep mode
21:04 < delinquentme> fenn,
21:04 < delinquentme> I don't understand why " top kek " is so hilarious =/
21:05 < delinquentme> was sitting on bart ... laughing my ass off
21:05 < delinquentme> all to myself
21:05  * delinquentme hev problems
21:05 < delinquentme> fenn, kanzure the cell shaded in eva 3.33 was the BESSSSSST
21:06 < delinquentme> and you can adjust the lens all you want ... but proper perspective is SOOOO sexy
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21:10 < delinquentme> I have to point out that every road into my hometown of fucking austria ... is fucking road https://www.google.com/maps/place/5121+Fucking,+Austria/@48.0673299,12.8633177,17z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x4775d4854dbcba19:0x802456ee60b72a17
21:10 < Lemminkainen> delinquentme are you really from Fucking?
21:11 < Lemminkainen> ich finde mir das schwer zu glauben
21:13 < nmz787> hah, i read that as australia
21:13 < nmz787> and was wondering why Lemminkainen was talking german
21:14 < delinquentme> same town, different country Lemminkainen
21:14 < delinquentme> country of witchoo
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21:30 < fenn> it's mostly that the fake-cel shaded 3D faces have close to zero expressiveness
21:55 < nmz787> delinquentme: wanna sell some FIB time for me?
21:56 < nmz787> delinquentme: the shop rate is $375 and hour
21:56 < nmz787> an*
21:58 < nmz787> delinquentme: we could rig up some web interface for orders and file conversions... I have to work on slicing CAD models into FIB files anyway
22:01 < nmz787> doing pools of orders like OSHpark does would probably be an efficiency booster
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22:08 < fenn> how does 3D work with FIB?
22:11 < nmz787> just slice a 3D model like they do for 3D printers, basically
22:11 < nmz787> since it is ablation
22:11 < nmz787> or it's something like the negative of that if you want to deposit
22:12 < nmz787> I might have to replenish the platinum source, but supposedly that's more of a $500 operation than a $5k
22:12 < nmz787> and I think would last quite a while
22:12 < nmz787> but I will need that to add electrodes and such
22:13 < nmz787> the usergroup i went to last month for fib/sem dualbeam users had an employee who whipped up a script in freecad to slice and create polygon files
22:13 < nmz787> which are essentially the newer version of the pattern files i pasted the converter code for earlier
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22:14 < nmz787> the difference being you can now specify shapes, or the older x,y,dwell format
22:14 < genehacker> what are you FIBing?
22:14 < nmz787> and also have multiple patterns packed into one polygon file for convenience. In my case i'll run different pattern files serially
22:14 < nmz787> sequentially
22:14 < nmz787> likely silicon to start
22:15 < nmz787> or glass
22:15 < nmz787> sputterred with carbon i think
22:15 < nmz787> (to conduct charge as FIBing occurs)
22:16 < nmz787> I think I'll start with a macro-to-micro fluidic adapter
22:17 < nmz787> something I can use later in a cpu-socket-like fashion with micro/nano fluidics
22:17 < nmz787> i may find that it isn't reusable, but the master should be replicable
22:18 < nmz787> err, there would be a master for just making single/limited use items
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22:19 < delinquentme> nmz787, where be the FIB?
22:19 < nmz787> apparently you can get a birth certificate for a home birth with a family bible with names and dates written in it... at the FIB shop they have this microscopic bible on a smaller-than-dime sized pendant type thing... which could be appended to with names... :D
22:19 < nmz787> delinquentme: 5 mins from my hous
22:20 < nmz787> 'here judge, check out my family bible with this loupe, and if that doesn't work, here's this phase-contrast microscope'
22:20 < nmz787> delinquentme: just outside portland OR
22:20 < delinquentme> theres another here in SF I might have access to
22:21 < delinquentme> IDK what the hourly would be ..
22:21 < genehacker> well is it readable with an optical microscope?
22:21 < nmz787> genehacker: yeah
22:21 < delinquentme> I thought about this for engraving on really expensive items
22:21 < delinquentme> watches n shite
22:21 < delinquentme> but thats like weh.
22:21 < nmz787> watches could be harder unless you could take off some plate to put in the machine
22:21 < delinquentme> actually I have no idea on the hardness that a FIB could handle engraving on........
22:21 < nmz787> just cause i assume the gears may be lubed
22:21 < genehacker> neat, now I wonder what it would take to FIB all this onto something sturdy:
22:21 < genehacker> http://www.survivorlibrary.com/
22:22 < nmz787> which might contiuously boil off iun vacuum
22:22 < nmz787> genehacker: can you compare it to the volume of a bible?
22:22 < genehacker> because PDF files don't work after computers don't work
22:23 < nmz787> oh, that seems to be potentially 100s of books
22:23 < genehacker> how big was the bible?
22:23 < nmz787> 1 book
22:23 < nmz787> heh
22:23 < genehacker> in millimeters?
22:24 < nmz787> random interet: 593,493 in the Old Testament and 181,253 in the New Testament giving 774,746 words.
22:24 < nmz787> (words)
22:24 < genehacker> the FIBed one?
22:25 < nmz787> http://www.norsam.com/lanlreport.html
22:25 < nmz787> 'Each disc is 2.2 inches in diameter and contains approximately 9000 pages of text or images'
22:25 < fenn> microfilm is a well proven technology
22:25 < nmz787> 'For temperatures up to 300 oC (570 oF) and times up to 65 h in laboratory air, the text remained readable. Exposures to saltwater, tap water, and a simulated marine air environment for 15 weeks did not affect readability of the text. The corrosion rate was measured as a function of time for seven days and was approximately 1 mm per year, which suggested that the disc could survive a long time in the saltwater if the environmental conditions ...
22:25 < nmz787> ... remained the same. However, these results cannot be extrapolated to very long times because chemical changes in the environment that may take place with time were not taken into account.'
22:27 < nmz787> this is an impression in plastic, coated with gold and then coated in more plastic
22:27 < nmz787> so the data is sandwiched
22:27 < nmz787> at least that is one form you can store it as
22:28 < genehacker> now I wonder what it would take to do a small run of the survival library or some other 'restart society library' on that
22:28 < fenn> is there a reason not to just use something like a daguerrotype, silver on glass, maybe with an epoxy coating to prevent oxidation and scratches
22:28 < nmz787> i bet there is kickstarter money
22:28 < nmz787> if you couple it with the right eyepiece
22:28 < genehacker> you guessed it
22:29 < genehacker> but I wonder if you could get enough kickstarter money to do a small batch at a semiconductor fab
22:29 < nmz787> fenn this is produced with something like LIGA
22:29 < nmz787> .wik LIGA
22:29 < yoleaux> "LIGA is a German acronym for Lithographie, Galvanoformung, Abformung (Lithography, Electroplating, and Molding) that describes a fabrication technology used to create high-aspect-ratio microstructures." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIGA
22:29 < fenn> so what
22:30 < nmz787> i assume the difference may be in the speed of degradation of the master with repeated moldings
22:30 < nmz787> ?
22:30 < fenn> that is a pretty cool picture tho http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ant_with_gear.jpg
22:31 < fenn> if the only goal is data storage, exposing film seems about as effecient as hot press molding
22:32 < fenn> is styrene or whatever they make the discs out of more stable than polyester camera film?
22:32 < fenn> but film can be exposed digitally for infinite variation
22:32 < fenn> there's that new m-disc archival dvd but eh
22:33 < fenn> much easier to build a microfilm reader from scratch than a dvd player
22:34 < genehacker> I wonder if this is the same rosetta disk?
22:34 < genehacker> http://rosettaproject.org/disk/concept/
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22:38 < nmz787> http://rosettaproject.org/blog/02008/aug/20/very-long-term-backup/
22:38 < nmz787> yes
22:38 < nmz787> well
22:38 < nmz787> at least that company is mentioned there
22:40 < nmz787> oh, yes, 'This technology, developed by Los Alamos Laboratories and Norsam Technologies'
22:42 < fenn> they should add a "book of genesis" translated into modern physics-ese as well
22:43 < fenn> throwing all this technology into preserving a ridiculous fairy tale
22:43 < fenn> hrmph
22:44 < genehacker> and that's why they should preserve something useful like physics
22:44 < nmz787> well, it was more a proof of concept
22:44 < nmz787> there was someone at one point thinking of making jewelry with the texts
22:44 < nmz787> there are some sanskrit things too
22:45 < fenn> isn't it just the book of genesis translated into sanskrit?
22:45 < nmz787> and gailic knot things
22:45 < nmz787> idk, i figured it was the bhagavadgita or something
22:45 < fenn> that's hardly an improvement
22:46 < genehacker> or how to build a device to read a disc with compressed data
22:46 < nmz787> isn't it a little more upfront about interpreting it it
22:48 < fenn> it turns out the reason they chose genesis as the sample text (lots of translations) wasn't even true; there weren't already samples of genesis translated into 1000 languages
22:48 < fenn> since they already had to translate 1000 things why not at least pick something useful
22:48 < nmz787> oh, are you talking about the rosettaproject fenn?
22:49 < fenn> yes but i figure norsam is heavily involved in that project
22:49 < genehacker> because some languages might not have a word for proton
22:49 < nmz787> re indian text i meant norsam jewelry stuff
22:49 < nmz787> seems like it happened in 2008
22:49 < nmz787> doesn't seem to have been any momentum
22:49 < genehacker> because then you can exploit religious fervor to preserve data
22:50 < nmz787> probably because nerdy enough folks don't like genesis enough or something
22:50 < fenn> "This is a Long Now project, which means it is okay if it takes a while." lame
22:50 < fenn> "it's okay if we never finish because someone else will do it after we're dead"
22:50 < nmz787> now that survival manual, with a pocket jewelers loupe, that would sell
22:50 < genehacker> yup
22:50 < nmz787> maybe it could be a locket with the optic inside too
22:51 < fenn> the constitution of the united states engraved on every bullet
22:51 < nmz787> hah
22:51 < nmz787> that could definitely be done i think
22:51 < nmz787> unless the powder would offgas
22:51 < genehacker> well liga isn't cheap
22:51 < nmz787> or explode in the FIB somehow (i don't think that would happen)
22:51 < fenn> the roundness would be an issue
22:51 < genehacker> nope
22:52 < nmz787> pretty sure as soon as the charge gets to the target it's voltage diminishes since it's such low resistance and such low current
22:52 < genehacker> http://www.natureinterface.com/e/ni07/P058-059/
22:52 < nmz787> a box of ammo would be hundreds of dollars though
22:52 < fenn> "n 2004 the Rosetta Space Probe was launched by the European Space Agency. This small craft was created to land on a comet in 2014. Before it blasted off, the ESA contacted us because we share names. They asked if we'd like to mount a version of the disk on their probe. Of course we would! We had manufactured a pure nickel disc with a subset of 6,000 pages of language translations, which was
22:52 < nmz787> only the richest freedom fighters
22:52 < fenn> mounted on the payload section of the probe."
22:53 < fenn> well it's not quite the voyager message
22:55 < nmz787> that's why america is tops
22:55 < nmz787> we put a poor bluesman into space
22:55 < fenn> somehow it's weird to think that a german spacecraft landed on a comet
22:56 < genehacker> well it hasn't landed yet?
22:57 < fenn> "With Rosetta in orbit 30 km (19 mi) above the comet's surface, ESA examined several potential landing sites for Philae. On 15 September 2014, ESA announced Site J on the "head" of the comet as the lander's destination.[40] Philae is scheduled to detach from Rosetta on 12 November 2014 at 08:35 UTC, with a landing seven hours later."
22:58 < fenn> excuse me, "is landing"
22:58 < nmz787> huh, i didn't know johnny b goode was on voyager somehow, or i forgot
22:58 < nmz787> i remember in some media article reading about the blind willie guy
22:58 < fenn> there were a lot of different music samples
22:59 < nmz787> apparently there was an SNL skit based on this fact... E.T. replies 'send more chuck berry'
22:59 < genehacker> now I wonder how much 'legitimately obtained' music one could store on a norsam disc
22:59 < fenn> probably less than a DVD
23:00 < genehacker> and if modern semiconductor processes are used?
23:00 < fenn> more than a blu-ray
23:01 < nmz787> track to track on bluray is 320nm
23:01 < fenn> part of the trick is in making it readable
23:01 < nmz787> is a spiral a non-ideal data origin?
23:01 < genehacker> use an electron beam instead of a laser
23:01 < fenn> the tracks may not be perfectly accurate but they stay mostly circular (locally linear)
23:01 < nmz787> yeah the readability is pretty key if you want to survive an apocalypse
23:02 < nmz787> 'kids, this disc has all the secrets of my world, guard it like magic'
23:02 < fenn> i like the idea of storing analog "how to build a dvd reader" instructions on one side and data on the other
23:02 < nmz787> well I just mean as far as easily telling where to start reading from, a spiral has a center
23:03 < nmz787> you might also have one for 'how to compile 7zip'
23:03 < nmz787> unless by DVD reader you mean AM/PCM audio
23:03 < fenn> aren't you old enough to remember "self extracting archive"
23:04 < nmz787> 'it was all worth it to listen to some good old chuck berry'
23:04 < nmz787> genehacker: did you look at the voter pamphlet?
23:05 < genehacker> somewhat
23:05 < nmz787> most of the descriptions are absolutely worthless
23:05 < nmz787> for the ppl
23:05 < nmz787> it lists educational institution, but not field of study
23:06 < nmz787> and some of the text was mostly bashing the other candidates running against them
23:06 < nmz787> and apparently I don't know how to find a good online source for something similar but with real information
23:30 < fenn> the norsam process seems to be able to reliably generate at least 1 micron features, and the disc is 2.2 inches in diameter, so assuming one bit per square micron that's 2.5 billion square microns or 300MB
23:31 < fenn> obviously smaller features lead to higher density
23:34 < fenn> it looks like the full surface of the disc is not used
23:36 < fenn> huh 3d does work after all http://www.norsam.com/images/pegasus.jpg
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--- Log closed Tue Nov 04 00:00:40 2014