--- Log opened Sat Nov 08 00:00:44 2014
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00:21 < nmz787_i> good night everyone
00:21 < nmz787_i> this was a lonnng week
00:21 < nmz787_i> 6 hours or so of sleep prob on avg
00:21 < nmz787_i> per night
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00:38 < nmz787> fenn: read section D. Scanner where it talks about using the voice coil from a CDROM and section E. Detector where the talk about using the mass-specter while they raster with the voice coil
00:39 < nmz787> 'The mass-spectrometer (RGA) samples gas through a nozzle located to one side of the sample area produces a helium partial pressure which is collected in an array. When the full frame has been collected, the software scales the minimum to maximum range of reading to black and white image limits. The range (contrast) from black to white was originally about 6% of the averate pressure after removing noise. In recent scans this has been improved ...
00:39 < nmz787> ... to 25%-45%, depending on the sample topography.'
00:39 < nmz787> .wik Residual gas analyzer
00:39 < yoleaux> "A residual gas analyzer (RGA) is a small and usually rugged mass spectrometer, typically designed for process control and contamination monitoring in vacuum systems. Utilizing quadrupole technology, there exists two implementations, utilizing either an open ion source (OIS) or a closed ion source (CIS)." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual_gas_analyzer
00:41 < nmz787> this seems like a good price considering the market for them http://www.ebay.com/itm/Anest-Iwata-Scroll-Meister-Oil-Free-Scroll-Vacuum-Pump-Head-ISP-250C-/111486259599?pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item19f519518f
00:41 < nmz787> ~$1k
00:42 < nmz787> but then you need a turbo pump... I wonder if a car turbo would work :D
00:42 < nmz787> someone posted a MEMS-based pump somewhere recently
00:43 < nmz787> this is some kind of local re-supply shop, lots of goodies but no prices http://www.horustech.com/index.php
00:43 < nmz787> err, no, this https://www.appliedbeams.com/products/
00:44 < nmz787> the gallium source just looks like a small coil/spring that has been wetted with a low melting point metal solder-type stuff (gallium)
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00:59 < nmz787> MEMS vacuum pump article http://www.micromanufacturing.com/content/tiny-vacuum-pumps-set-soar
01:00 < nmz787> something like that would, I believe, still require a 'roughing pump'... i.e. that scroll pump
01:02 < nmz787> scroll pump vs other rough/low vacuum pumps is scroll has no oil, which other pumps that do will create a 'virtual leak' of gaseous oil that is vapourizing into the vacuum space
01:02 < nmz787> and the oil can then go on to carbonize on the high voltage electronics
01:02 < nmz787> or detectors
01:02 < nmz787> etc
01:03 < nmz787> you might be able to have some kind of an ionizer/ion-getter between the specimen chamber and the pumps
01:03 < nmz787> is there no solid-state vacuum stuff?
01:04 < nmz787> like, bio-inspired or something
01:05 < nmz787> arbitrary gas-molecule transmembrane protein or something
01:06 < nmz787> a uniporter
01:16 < nmz787> .tell gene_hacker solid-state electrically-actuated membrane coatings? something you could apply to a porous ceramic plate, polarise with an electric field, then gently dry or fuse in a kiln maybe (?), finally install as the last side of your vacuum chamber. When you apply power, pumping of nitrogen/gas would occur. Design goals I guess: pumping action; no/low gas permeability, tight crystal structure around the pump mechanism; electrically ...
01:16 < yoleaux> nmz787: I'll pass your message to gene_hacker.
01:16 < nmz787> ... actuated; works in dry conditions; can be fused with porous substrate forming overall no/low gas permeability
01:17 < nmz787> .tell gene_hacker ... actuated; works in dry conditions; can be fused with porous substrate forming overall no/low gas permeability
01:17 < yoleaux> nmz787: I'll pass your message to gene_hacker.
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04:42 < fenn> today is http://www.aaronswartzday.org/ hackathons in austin, berlin, boston, buenos aires, houston, kathmandu, los angeles, magdeburg, new york city, oakland, oxford, san francisco
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05:29 -!- Topic for ##hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | sponsored by george church and the NRA, banned by the Federal Death Administration (4 times) | this channel is LOGGED: http://gnusha.org/logs | http://diyhpl.us/wiki | not intentionally unrepeatable
05:29 -!- Topic set by kanzure [~kanzure@131.252.130.248] [Fri Jun  6 17:48:33 2014]
05:29 [Users ##hplusroadmap]
05:29 [ abetusk   ] [ Daeken      ] [ jrayhawk       ] [ saurik       ] 
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05:29 -!- Irssi: ##hplusroadmap: Total of 78 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 78 normal]
05:29 -!- Channel ##hplusroadmap created Thu Feb 25 23:40:30 2010
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05:50 < kanzure> what is wrong with the internet
05:52 < fenn> something is WRONG on the INTERNET!!!
05:53 < kanzure> compiler bootstrapping http://rano.org/bcompiler.html
05:53 < kanzure> "kernel driver to practice writing exploits against" https://github.com/clymb3r/KdExploitMe
05:54 < rkos> hey fenn im sorry but my dl of that pdf you uploaded for me corrupted itself somehow, can you reupload it?
05:54 < kanzure> .title http://blog.ioactive.com/2014/11/elf-parsing-bugs-by-example-with-melkor.html
05:54 < yoleaux> IOActive Labs Research: ELF Parsing Bugs by Example with Melkor Fuzzer
05:54 < rkos> and kanzure whathappened to paperbot
05:54 < kanzure> http://www.devttys0.com/2014/10/reversing-d-links-wps-pin-algorithm/
05:54 < fenn> rkos http://fennetic.net/irc/327.full.pdf does it work now?
05:54 < kanzure> "While perusing the latest firmware for D-Link’s DIR-810L 80211ac router, I found an interesting bit of code in sbin/ncc, a binary which provides back-end services used by many other processes on the device, including the HTTP and UPnP servers.."
05:55 < rkos> yeah thanks very much fenn !
05:55 < kanzure> paperbot is dead until someone fixes bugs
05:57 < fenn> so people have been calling for a graphical way to view code structures for at least all eternity, and it seems like the benefits of throwing away the text bits actually outweigh the disadvantages in the case of reverse engineering
05:57 < kanzure> "exploiting a webkit bug on a playstation vita" http://acez.re/ps-vita-level-1-webkitties-3/
05:58 < fenn> since you don't really have function or variable names, a network graph view is more accurate way of representing the data/code structure
05:58 < fenn> but it would need to have a lot of introspection tools built in, or it would just be a useless toy
05:58 < kanzure> i have not seen a good graph diagram of code, ever
05:58 < fenn> me either
05:58 < kanzure> i did lots of graphviz dumps of pokemon red and pokemon crystal and it was just fucking awful
06:00 < fenn> i'm sure if you did a graphviz dump of an electronic circuit schematic it would be just as awful
06:00 < fenn> but this doesn't mean that good schematics don't exist
06:00 < kanzure> this may crash your browser http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/pokecrystal/graphs/crystal.html
06:00 < fenn> thanks for the warning; i'm already out of ram...
06:01 < kanzure> (middle scroll to zoom)
06:03 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/pokecrystal/graphs/2014-11-08-080235-pokecrystal-call-graph-diagram.png
06:03 < fenn> i don't think force-directed layouts are the right way to go because they're not deterministic; people learn new languages by seeing it presented the same way every time, and the same graph could look many different ways, even in identical contexts
06:04 < kanzure> i like how it has to use horizontal lines everywhere
06:04 < fenn> i dont see any horizontal lines
06:04 < kanzure> near the top
06:05 < kanzure> "oh and this function has to cut across the entire chart.."
06:05 < fenn> what's wrong with that?
06:05 < kanzure> for one, cutting across lots of area/space is meaningless
06:06 < fenn> if you have extremely modularized code you'd hope that the graph layout algorithm didnt have lots of long lines
06:06 < fenn> but if the code itself is spaghetti code, there's no way around it (in 2 dimensions at least)
06:06 < fenn> something something rank order network topology
06:07 < kanzure> there is some maximum spaghetti factor beyond which it should be impossible to make a useful diagram
06:07 < kanzure> however, that spaghetti factor should probably be well beyond what it is possible for a human to write
06:07 < fenn> even a hopfield network can have a comprehensible diagram
06:08 < fenn> maybe i dont really understand what it is that makes spaghetti code
06:08 < kanzure> a lot of reverse engineering is just staring at bytes until a pattern pops out at you
06:08 < fenn> that's all anything is
06:08 < kanzure> and things like "i bet these bitches didn't know about that extra parameter on that function call"
06:09 < kanzure> (it's the "betting" part that matters there, not the specific example)
06:09 < fenn> it just seems to me that brute force ascii to cortical pattern recognition may not be the most optimal way to grok a code structure
06:10 < fenn> s/may not/probably not/
06:11 < fenn> even that graphviz blob tells you some things, like "this has a bunch of data attached to it"
06:11 < kanzure> http://binwalk.org/3d-data-visualizations/
06:11 < kanzure> "unknown executable data" http://binwalk.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/unknown_executable_data.gif
06:11 < fenn> what are the geostationary bits that only connect to one or two other functions?
06:12 < kanzure> helper functions?
06:12 < kanzure> most of these addresses have been figured out in pokecrystal.git and commented/named/etc
06:13 < fenn> helper functions would be connected somewhere if they are actually used in the code, no?
06:14 < kanzure> oh, er, there are some functions that are not directly called by jumps etc but instead by variable manipulation
06:14 < kanzure> but the source code still knew about those functions
06:14 < fenn> is that like self modifying code?
06:14 < kanzure> original dataset was based on parsing the manually-crafted pile of source code
06:14 < kanzure> it's like self-calling source code
06:14 < kanzure> "do some addition to make the right pointer"
06:15 < fenn> it's a low priority but i want to reverse engineer "bushido blade" for playstation some day
06:16 < kanzure> as they say in the temporal mechanics department, ...
06:16 < fenn> the game mechanics are not spectacular but the environments are top notch
06:17 < fenn> i do like the realism of "if you get hit in the head with a giant hammer you are dead, the end"
06:19 < fenn> have you ever seen the movie "primer"?
06:19 < fenn> .title https://xkcd.com/657/
06:19 < yoleaux> xkcd: Movie Narrative Charts
06:19 < kanzure> no
06:20 < fenn> well you'll either become obsessed and watch it 20 times, or not
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06:42 < dingo> bushido blade is a great game
06:42 < dingo> i remember playing that new years eve y2k
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06:43 < dingo> ruthless
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07:21 < kanzure> network disruption was nsa installing stuff
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07:58 < kanzure> hmm
08:31 < kanzure> fenn: thorium stuff https://gist.github.com/anonymous/ecc0fa4d0bcf37ea04e9
08:44 < fenn> i have thought about this more than is healthy
08:45 < kanzure> kjskjskjs: you have a victim
08:47 < fenn> somehow this thought got stuck in me after reading about the underground planetary transport network in "ventus"
08:48 < fenn> i don't get why the author thinks cooling is such a big deal; volcanoes outgas steam all the time
08:50 < kanzure> 08:31 <+sbp> ah, kjskjskjs eventually got around to writing his thorium piece!
08:50 < kanzure> pretty sure it's kjskjskjs
08:58 < fenn> how did you find that?
09:01 < kanzure> swhack
09:04 < dingo> hey i just found teamcity gives unlimited licenses to OSS projects
09:04 < dingo> i applied for one for pexpect
09:04 < dingo> poifect
09:05 < fenn> the first hit is free
09:05 < fenn> jetbrains sounds like a travel agency
09:06 < dingo> they're probably most amously known for intellij
09:06 < dingo> (and the derivied ide's, like pycharm)
09:08 < fenn> do non-java non-c++ people actually use IDE's
09:10 < dingo> i've only seen former java programmers use pycharm haehe
09:10 < dingo> so many java programmers are so fucking inept without their auto-completion and navigation ui's
09:11 < kanzure> https://github.com/docker/docker/issues/6805
09:11 < kanzure> "This breaks separation of concerns. For example, if a sysadmin wants to change the URL at which an internal registry is available, all developers building on top of an image stored in that registry will need to change their Dockerfiles. In this example, we want the sysadmin to be free to change the URL (or other configuration aspects, for example authentication) without affecting the development workflow, and vice-versa."
09:11 < kanzure> "and 2) how the image was transferred should not influence its name."
09:11 < kanzure> no shit?
09:12 < dingo> i've been enjoying using consul, i haven't used it with docker, but i read it compliments nicely
09:12 < kanzure> are you using its key-value storage for config?
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09:15 < kanzure> previously i was exclusively using it for service discovery but have been looking into using it for key-value storage stuff
09:20 < dingo> just service discovery for now, i can't recall if we planned to use it for key-values or not
09:20 < dingo> we got the whole openstack pile to work with, there might be something else for that in the stack
09:22 < kanzure> got it
09:29 < JayDugger> fenn: thorium stuff https://gist.github.com/anonymous/ecc0fa4d0bcf37ea04e9.
09:29 < JayDugger> Pretty neat.
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10:01 < kanzure> how can i get around needing tags like "git-git" and "github-github"?
10:01 < kanzure> i suppose i could switch to "on-github"?
10:02 < kanzure> "they-are-using-git-for-version-control"
10:02 < kanzure> er, the tagging domain is bookmarks in this case
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10:11 < JayDugger> jotmuch, is it?
10:12 < kanzure> yes
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10:20 < FourFire> JayDugger: where do I read the rest?
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10:47 < fenn> tangentially related https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperloop
10:48 < JayDugger> All I've seen lies at that gist, FourFire.
10:50 < kanzure> "... We don't believe that any other PKI mechenism is actually functional enough to be usable (e.g. as evidenced by the fact that downloads of our GPG signatures, is on the order of 1% of the downloads of the Bitcoin software; and probably only a small portion of those users have actually done anything to verify the signing keys) today, so other options haven't been a priority."
10:52 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bIHKI07gAw
10:52 < yoleaux> JJ Grant - Negative Influences (Matteo Monero Remix) - YouTube
11:05 < kanzure> https://soundcloud.com/mistiquemusic/mist498-max-ivanovsky-astro-2
11:08 < kanzure> wow such curve fit https://blockchain.info/charts/blocks-size
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12:09 < kanzure> 12:08 < gmaxwell> And if memory is corrupted you can't rely on returning an error not making things worse.
12:16 < justanotheruser> kanzure: is this channel an archive for everything you find interesting?
12:17 < kanzure> this channel is for coordinating transhumanism-related engineering and technology projects
12:18 < justanotheruser> s/interesting/useful/ then?
12:18 < kanzure> justanotheruser: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/declaration
12:20 < justanotheruser> ok
12:20 < kanzure> https://soundcloud.com/suffusedmusic/michael-levan-and-stiven-rivic
12:22 < justanotheruser> kanzoracle: how long will this hcl burn last? http://imgur.com/R9JAGeZ
12:23 < justanotheruser> this podcasts got some funky into music
12:24 < justanotheruser> oh, its a mix, not a podcast
12:36 < fenn> "we can replace all coal, oil, natural gas, and nuclear power by 2030 with wind, solar, and hydropower while fueling a fleet of electric cars. How? By deploying 3.8 million 5-megawatt wind turbines, 5,350 100-megawatt geothermal plants, 500,000 1-megawatt tidal turbines, 720,000 0.75-megawatt wave power generators, 1.7 billion 3-kilowatt rooftop solar panels, 40,000 300-megawatt solar panel
12:36 < fenn> farms, and 49,000 300-megawatt concentrated solar power plants."  oh is that all
12:38 < justanotheruser> I wonder if the interest lost + mainenance costs of that infrastructure would cost more than coal and gas.
12:38 < fenn> i didn't even realize there was such a thing as a 5 MW windmill
12:39 < streety> is that for current use or projected 2030 use? entire world?
12:41 < fenn> unclear
12:41 < streety> what's the source?
12:42 < streety> http://www.windpowermonthly.com/10-biggest-turbines - seems like 5MW turbines have been around since 2006
12:42 < fenn> http://web.stanford.edu/group/efmh/jacobson/Articles/I/susenergy2030.html
12:44 < FourFire> wind power is incredibly environmentally destructive
12:44 < FourFire> Nuclear all the way!
12:44 < FourFire> just don't entrust dipshit half assing companies with the safety measures
12:44 < fenn> ugh i hate this argument, "nuclear power results in up to 25 times the carbon emissions of wind energy [infrastructure]"
12:45 < fenn> because nobody knows how to melt steel without burning coal?
12:45 < fenn> what is this, the 1800's
12:47 < fenn> oh on page 4 of the scientific american article they discuss power usage projections for year 2030, estimating 16.9TW global power demand
12:47 < kanzure> dingo: microsoft has contributed some windows boxes to the bottom of the list on http://www.vagrantbox.es/ (and they are all massive >1 GB haha)
12:48 < fenn> but somehow magically by using windmills it becomes 11.5TW?
12:55 < streety> fenn: the nuclear claim is more stupid than that: from "February 15, 2014 American Association for the Advancement of Science presentation (pptx)" they state "9-25 times more pollution per kWh than wind from mining & refining uranium and using fossil fuels for electricity during the 10-19 years to permit (6-10 y) and construct (4-9 y) nuclear plant compared with 2-5 years for a wind or solar farm"
12:58 < fenn> well sure, you have to build them first before you can switch over
12:59 < fenn> but assuming we're in an all-out blitz to cover the earth in $power_type it shouldn't take 20-30 years to build
12:59 < fenn> 20 years to get permits? wtf!!! !!!
13:00 < kanzure> https://github.com/dublx/packer-terraform-docker-aws-test
13:00 < kanzure> permits haha
13:00 < streety> It's the permitting bit that gets me
13:01 < fenn> maybe they are using the keystone XL pipeline permitting process as their data point
13:01 < streety> nuclear is responsible for the carbon emissions prior to it being built? Oh, and lets increase that by slowing down permitting.
13:02 < fenn> oh i read it wrong 6-10 years of permitting (still wtf)
13:02 < kanzure> maybe those are concurrent years
13:02 < fenn> no they add them together to get 10-19 years
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13:09 < kanzure> yep i think i like these guys https://soundcloud.com/suffusedmusic
13:20 < delinquentme> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uloBD9xxwZ0
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13:24 < fenn> this new infected mushroom stuff is hard to listen to.. makes me nauseous
13:25 < fenn> .title
13:25 < yoleaux> Infected Mushroom - Army Of Mushrooms Full Album - YouTube
13:27 < fenn> entirely too many words
13:40 < jrayhawk> Yeah; some of it is quite good when viewed from a 90's industrial perspective, but it's quite a jarring change
13:45 < jrayhawk> I suppose gaining skills to graduate from ProTracker-module-aesthetics to industrial-music-aesthetics was a pretty common nerd trajectory back then.
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13:51 < delinquentme> why does being hungover effect how much sunlight is bothersome?
13:52 < kanzure> you should get the anti-hangover gene
13:53 < kanzure> hm i forgot about http://corte.si/%2Fposts/visualisation/entropy/index.html
13:54 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_Transport_Network
13:55 < fenn> delinquentme: reduced blood flow to the temporal lobes due to dehydration prevents rejection of noise stimulus (randon guess)
13:56 < fenn> also irritability from increased cortisol to keep your blood pressure up
13:56 < fenn> drink pedialyte, yo
13:57 < jrayhawk> Yeah, there's a bajillion things to increase sensitivity to pain in a state of inflammation; the pain is probably induced by melanopsin signaling, but I don't know the specifics.
13:59 < kanzure> "Mining your P's and Q's: Detection of widespread weak keys in network devices" https://factorable.net/weakkeys12.extended.pdf
13:59 < jrayhawk> http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=melanopsin+pain
14:01 < fenn> most of the results have to do with migraines, not hangover light sensitivity (unless it's the same thing?)
14:02 < fenn> i don't drink, but i've read that alcohol is a diuretic, and dehydration is the source of hangover headaches
14:03 < jrayhawk> acetylaldehyde is also important, there
14:03 < jrayhawk> which is why glutathione precursors, most specifically NAC supplementation, are so effective in hangover intervention studies.
14:04 < jrayhawk> intervention and/or prevention
14:04 < fenn> i guess that's the idea behind the raw egg whites drink
14:05 < kanzure> "rs671 is a classic SNP, well known in a sense through the phenomena known as the "alcohol flush", also known as the "Asian Flush" or "Asian blush", in which certain individuals, often of Asian descent, have their face, neck and sometimes shoulders turn red after drinking alcohol.[PMID 6582480]"
14:05 < fenn> but whey would be more palatable
14:05 < fenn> whey protein isolate
14:05 < kanzure> "The rs671(A) allele of the ALDH2 gene is the culprit, in that it encodes a form of the aldehyde dehydrogenase 2 protein that is defective at metabolizing alcohol. This allele is known as the ALDH*2 form, and individuals possessing either one or two copies of it show alcohol-related sensitivity responses including facial flushing, and severe hangovers (and hence they are usually not regular drinkers). Perhaps not surprisingly they appear to ...
14:05 < kanzure> ... suffer less from alcoholism and alcohol-related liver disease. [PMID 511165, PMID 16046871]"
14:06 < jrayhawk> the BBB-permeability science is rather nascent, but maybe acetylaldehyde can cause it and induce mild migraines?
14:06 < fenn> rats that immediately died when given alcohol tended not to be alcoholics, gee
14:07 < kanzure> science!
14:07 < jrayhawk> "Acetylated organic molecules exhibit increased ability to cross the selectively permeable blood-brain barrier."
14:07 < jrayhawk> okay then
14:07 < kanzure> http://h14s.p5r.org/2014/11/why-i-find-ieee-754-frustrating.html
14:07 < delinquentme> went out w one of the devvs on dropcam last night
14:07 < kanzure> "The licensing terms of the spec document are deeply problematic." <3
14:07 < delinquentme> was gut.
14:08 < fenn> i still dont know what exactly causes migraines
14:08 < delinquentme> bad migrations.
14:08 < kanzure> jrayhawk: cherish that, because such clear statements are uncommon
14:08 < fenn> huh "Hangover  headache pain varies in location but is usually centralized in the top right side of the brain."
14:08 < delinquentme> LAWLLLLL oh yeah. asked a CTO from a startup the other night when was the last time he rebased.
14:08 < delinquentme> he didnt know
14:08 < delinquentme> tre lulz =/////////////////////
14:08 < justanotheruser> fenn: so fucking fucked number was quite painful
14:09 < delinquentme> justanotheruser, this is infected mush?
14:09 < delinquentme> I like it ! lol
14:09 < kanzure> "The most immediate problem is the licensing on the 754 document itself. Have you ever actually read it? I hadn’t until very recently. Do you ever see links from discussions around FP into the spec? I don’t, ever. There’s a reason for that and here it is, [screenshot, $71-$90/reader]"
14:09 < kanzure> "The document is simply not freely available. This alone is a massive problem. Before you complain that people don’t implement your spec maybe stop charging them $88 to even read it?"
14:09 < kanzure> "Can I copy it into my own spec or would that be copyright infringement? Can I write something myself that means the same? Or do I have to link to the spec and require my users to pay to read it? Even if I just say “see the spec”, might my complete implementation constitute infringement of a copyrighted structure, sequence, and organization?"
14:10 < kanzure> "In short, I don’t know how to create FP bindings that conform to 754 without exposing myself to a copyright infringement lawsuit in the US from IEEE. Sigh."
14:10 < justanotheruser> delinquentme: ?
14:10 < jrayhawk> the functional medicine folks seems to be enamored with an etiology of BBB permeability+neurodisruptive factors for migraines
14:11 < jrayhawk> free glutamate would explain the overactivation-and-then-seizure pattern seen in migraine research.
14:12 < jrayhawk> But I highly doubt free glutamate is the only thing to cause severe problems when BBB permeability is an issue.
14:12 < kanzure> "As an absolute minimum, fix the robots.txt so the spec meeting minutes become searchable."
14:14 < fenn> glutamate is too simple and would have been discovered
14:14 < fenn> there have been literally hundreds of papers on free glutamate toxicity
14:14 < jrayhawk> BBB-permeability is very new, though
14:14 < jrayhawk> well, it's been theorized by the fringe for a long time, but nobody likes the fringe
14:16 < jrayhawk> http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=glutamate+migraine
14:17 < fenn> wow google scholar actually works ish without javascript
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14:18 < jrayhawk> I haven't really seen any papers combining everything, sadly.
14:19 < fenn> The concept of migraine as a state of central neuronal hyperexcitability. .. A low brain Mg2+ and consequent reduced gating of glutamatergic receptors may provide the
14:19 < fenn> link between the physiologic threshold for a migraine attack and the mechanisms of the attack
14:19 < fenn> itself by promoting glutamate hyperactivity, neuronal hyperexcitability...
14:20 < fenn> so which is the problem here, low Mg2+ or glutamate?
14:20 < jrayhawk> Probably all of the above!
14:24 < jrayhawk> I, personally, get headaches from alcohol *real* fast; usually around 40 minutes after consumption.
14:24 < jrayhawk> I assume my liver is just very burly.
14:24  * kanzure writes this vulnerability down
14:25 < kanzure> don't worry, i'll forget the file's path and never find it again anyway
14:25 < fenn> i just get sleepy and do nothing
14:26 < jrayhawk> seems like that should be a centralized file
14:26 < jrayhawk> contingency-plans-and-leverage.txt
14:27 < kanzure> for 20,000 people i know? that wont work.
14:27 < jrayhawk> jrayhawk: vulnerabilities: crippling deontardation, bad software architecture, booze
14:27 < kanzure> contingency-plans-and-leverage.yaml
14:28 < jrayhawk> contingency-plans-and-leverage.sqlite
14:28 < kanzure> now you're just being actively harmful
14:28 < kanzure> steve was surprised about how accurately i had his thing down,
14:28 < fenn> red wine, which had a negligible tyramine content, provoked a typical migraine attack in 9 of 11 such patients, whereas none of the 8 challenged with vodka had an attack. Neither red wine nor vodka provoked such episodes in other migrainous subjects or controls. These findings show that red wine contains a migraine-provoking agent that is neither alcohol nor tyramine.
14:28 < kanzure> so why do you think i'd have you down any worse?
14:29 < kanzure> actually i suppose steve is easy
14:29 < kanzure> depending on your definition of easy here... uh..
14:30 < jrayhawk> vodka also produces headaches pretty fast, but i suppose i should never trust the booze industry not to put random garbage into their products
14:30 < fenn> vodka could contain lectins and solanine(?)
14:31 < fenn> and lps
14:31 < jrayhawk> it's supposed to be multiply distilled; it should contain fuck-all
14:31 < fenn> right
14:31 < jrayhawk> but booze companies like adding their own distinctive flavor
14:31 < jrayhawk> and labelling absolutely nothing
14:32 < jrayhawk> because... i dunno, regulatory capture? how do they get away with that
14:32 < fenn> one GC/MS per child
14:32 < fenn> because alcohol is ATF and food labeling is FDA
14:33 < fenn> myeah, see
14:33 < jrayhawk> haha
14:33 < fenn> ATF wtf is that
14:33 < jrayhawk> evil incarnate
14:33 < fenn> it's just so obviously a relic of a bygone era
14:34 < fenn> tommy guns and speakeasies
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14:41 < kanzure> .title http://corte.si/%2Fposts/code/hilbert/portrait/index.html
14:41 < yoleaux> cortesi - Portrait of the Hilbert curve
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14:44 < fenn> kanzure if you were actually interested in interplanetary transport networks http://tethers.com/MXTethers2.html
14:44 < fenn> much better than simple gravity slingshot
14:46 < kanzure> got it
14:46 < superkuh> Everything with tethers is awesome.
14:47 < superkuh> Have you read the NanoThor proposals?
14:48 < superkuh> http://erewhon.superkuh.com/library/Space/Spacecraft/NanoTHOR_%20Low-Cost%20Launch%20of%20Nanosatellites%20to%20Deep%20Space_%20R%20Hoyt_%20J%20Slosad_%20G%20Jimmerson_%20J%20St%20Luise_%202012.pdf
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14:49 < upgrayeddd> does anyone here have access to GVK catalogue? http://gso.gbv.de/DB=2.1/
14:51 < fenn> superkuh: so they're just using the residual propellant to boost a secondary payload?
14:51 < superkuh> No propellant.
14:52 < superkuh> Well, I guess the momentum of any remaining propellant, but that's not major.
14:52 < upgrayeddd> kanzure: how did that ISBN bot work again? I am looking to get ISBN 1-56902-013-2
14:52 < kanzure> #notyourlibrarian
14:52 < kanzure> wait..
14:53 < kanzure> (i might be your librarian)
14:53 < kanzure> http://corte.si/posts/security/gotofail-mitmproxy.html "A few weeks ago, I posted that I had hacked up a version of mitmproxy that exploited CVE-2014-1266, giving unrestricted access to nearly all HTTPS traffic on affected IOS and OSX devices. I chose not to release working code at the time, but a number of POCs have been floating about publicly almost since the issue was first discovered. So, the time has come to publish - as of yesterday, ...
14:53 < kanzure> ... mitmproxy's master branch supports #gotofail."
14:53 < superkuh> The gradient in orbital angular momentum from a long 2-mass tether system in LEO is converted to rotational momentum and then tangential velocity.
14:54 < fenn> either they're using propellant to spin up or electrical power to reel the cable in/out
14:54 < fenn> apparently it doesn't take much to reach escape velocity from GEO
14:54 < upgrayeddd> kanzure: can I get a nick at least?
14:54 < kanzure> upgrayeddd: paperbot is dead for the moment, consider contributing devtime to https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot
14:55 < upgrayeddd> ok :(
14:55 < superkuh> The spin up is from the gravity gradient mostly. The retraction of the tether adds a small amount to this.
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14:55 < superkuh> Mostly for dynamic control, not energy.
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14:55 < fenn> i just dont see where a momentum difference could come from if they're launched on the same vehicle
14:56 < superkuh> The first part of the paper describes mechanisms of spin up they will *not* use.
14:56 < superkuh> So ignore those diagrams.
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14:58 < superkuh> Burnin8 understands this far better than I do. If he notices this ping perhaps he can explain clearly.
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14:59 < fenn> i think the gravity gradient only contributes a stabilizing force which allows the tether to swing back and forth, which allows building up to higher kinetic energy levels than would be possible with a single electrically powered retraction
15:01 < fenn> anyway i hope they get to launch something
15:02 < fenn> it looks like they're designing around the arkyd space telescope/asteroid prospector
15:13 < fenn> something that hasn't been discussed much is that momentum exchange tethers allow suborbital rockets like spaceshiptwo to transfer payloads to orbit
15:15 < fenn> not that exact design, but you get to meet somewhere in the middle, instead of stacking stages up on top of one another until you get to a five story monster
15:16 < streety> or presumably launch larger loads from rockets capable of orbit
15:17 < fenn> sure but then you need a huge tether
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15:18 < fenn> i wonder how fast it can go.. delta-V = length * rotation speed
15:20 < fenn> zylon has a characteristic velocity of 3 km/s
15:23 < fenn> at a 1:1 payload to tether mass the tip speed is about 0.6 * characteristic velocity
15:24 < fenn> at 30:1 tip speed is about 1.6 * characteristic velocity
15:25 < fenn> so yeah about halfway there
15:25 < fenn> orbital velocity is about 10km/s
15:35 < fenn> er.. 7km/s
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15:58 < kanzure> am i pedantic enough yet https://github.com/petertodd/python-bitcoinlib/pull/22
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16:18 < fenn> from __future__ import bitcoinlib
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16:22 < kanzure> fenn: not necessary since it already exists
16:22 < fenn> but the future version is better!
16:23 < kanzure> "I created a draft BIP detailing a way to add auxiliary headers to Bitcoin in a bandwidth efficient way.  The overhead per auxiliary header is only around 104 bytes per header.  This is much smaller than would be required by embedding the hash of the header in the coinbase of the block. It is a soft fork and it uses the last transaction in the block to store the hash of the auxiliary header. It makes use of the fact that the last transaction ...
16:24 < kanzure> ... in the block has a much less complex Merkle branch than the other transactions."
16:24 < kanzure> https://github.com/TierNolan/bips/blob/aux_header/bip-aux-header.mediawiki
16:24 < fenn> here's my bit of code for the week: xcalib -blue 1 0 1 -a; xcalib -green 2 0 70 -a #for yellow on black
16:24 < kanzure> fenn: did you notice that ralph merkle joined ethereum
16:24 < fenn> to clear: xcalib -c -a
16:24 < fenn> no, i still havent even figured out what ethereum is
16:24 < kanzure> you're stealing my color scheme now?
16:25 < fenn> this is something like f.lux
16:25 < fenn> basically you don't really need the blue channel and it probably messes up your circadian rhythm
16:26 < fenn> i noticed that after reading lots of text in a dark room i would get light/dark bands "burned" into my vision
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17:05 < kanzure> js openrisc emulator with network stack https://github.com/s-macke/jor1k
17:06 < kanzure> demo http://s-macke.github.io/jor1k/
17:06 < kanzure> runs glxgears in the browser
17:06 < kanzure> this is almost gross
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17:11 < jrayhawk> just wait until they implement enough of a network driver to properly handle HTTP requests
17:14 < kanzure> xss will get weird
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17:32 < kanzure> "The MPI treatment of ``NaN'' is similar to the approach used in XDR (see ftp://ds.internic.net/rfc/rfc1832.txt). ( End of advice to implementors.) "
17:32 < kanzure> er.. okay.
17:36 < kanzure> "Your branch is behind 'origin/master' by 1888 commits, and can be fast-forwarded."
17:37 < jrayhawk> a bit worrying
17:38 < kanzure> bitcoin.git
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17:46 < justanotheruser> kanzure: you gonna be a coredev?
17:55 < kanzure> i'm fixing some petertodd code at the moment
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19:06 < nmz787> that openrisc emulator is damn cool, albeit slow... should make it even easier to learn stuff for kids and suc
19:06 < nmz787> such
19:06 < kanzure> worked pretty snappy for me
19:06 < kanzure> also this place is a circus https://github.com/petertodd/python-bitcoinlib/issues/6
19:08 < kanzure> https://github.com/jashmenn/bitcoin-reading-list
19:11 < nmz787> paperbot: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1700307.1700392
19:13 < nmz787> paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2818.2007.01874.x/abstract
19:14 < nmz787> kanzure: http://ergodox.org/
19:16 < nmz787> looks like the key switches are ~$70 alone http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/MX1A-11NW/CH160-ND/91134
19:18 < kanzure> paperbot is still busted?
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19:30 < kanzure> i am upset that i can't link to individual tracks https://soundcloud.com/suffusedmusic/sets/diary
19:30 < kanzure> oh yes i can. sort of. https://soundcloud.com/suffusedmusic/frisky-diary-045?in=suffusedmusic/sets/diary
19:30 < nmz787> well it should definitely be able to get the last, here it is http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Imaging_with_neutral_atomsa_new_matter-wave_microscope.pdf
19:30 < nmz787> so that may be a zotero issue
19:30 < kanzure> this is because of the aws problems
19:31 < nmz787> i don't see how that is, why haven't you added a try except?
19:31 < kanzure> been busy with... stuff...
19:31 < kanzure> blame skyraider
19:32 < nmz787> is that a person, company, or video game?
19:32 < nmz787> or helicopter piloting/pirating?
19:32 < kanzure> yes
19:36 < delinquentme> starscream
19:36 < delinquentme> YEEEE
19:48 < ebowden> Imagine, a biohacker engineers a myostatin knockout baby...
19:50 < ebowden> I wonder how the biohacking community might feel about THAT headline.
19:51 < kanzure> ebowden: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/genetic-modifications/
19:54 < ebowden> Thanks kanzure.
19:55 < ebowden> By the way, in no way do I think a myostatin knockout baby would be easy to do.
20:02 < ebowden> But if just ONE biohacker did it, all the fundies would come out of the woodwork and scream about how it's against jebus.
20:03 < delinquentme> ebowden, and this is how we get free advertising
20:03 < kanzure> er, they do that already even without myostatin
20:03 < kanzure> i don't understand why you would care though
20:03 < ebowden> delinquentme, heh
20:04 < ebowden> Kanzure, those people can be very unpleasant. One of them might bomb a lab.
20:04 < ebowden> *a lab or two.
20:05 < kanzure> do you really care who happens to bomb a lab?
20:05 < kanzure> i would think the bombing would be more important, there
20:05 < ebowden> I care about the extra lab bombings that might come about.
20:06 < kanzure> huh?
20:06 < kanzure> you should care about any bombings whatsoever
20:06 < ebowden> I do.
20:06 < kanzure> but i don't see why you would treat those as different
20:06 < kanzure> it just looks like an excuse to worry, to me
20:07 < ebowden> Its because I don't like lab bombings that I don't want extra.
20:08 < kanzure> what's so important about extra?
20:08 < kanzure> how about just.. any?
20:08 < ebowden> I know that lab bombings happen and will continue to.
20:09 < kanzure> anyway you might be interested in reading up on why everyone is constantly being blown up in society
20:09 < kanzure> *isn't constantly
20:09 < kanzure> because so far the views you have espoused here would lead me to believe that everyone is constantly being blown up, and this is clearly not the case
20:10 < ebowden> I believe there are SOME lab bombings.
20:10 < kanzure> do you feel guilty for that?
20:10 < ebowden> Nope.
20:10 < kanzure> then you've lost me
20:10 < ebowden> I just hold the apparently thought provoking view that more of them would be a bad thing.
20:11 < ebowden> That said, what would we get done if we only did research that didn't piss off fundies and anti-gmo nutjobs?
20:12 < ebowden> Significantly less, I think.
20:12 < kanzure> so that sounds a lot like guilt to me
20:14 < ebowden> I do not feel guilty at all.
20:15 < ebowden> By the way: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2661250/
20:15 < kanzure> .title
20:15 < yoleaux> The role of calsenilin/DREAM/KChIP3 in contextual fear conditioning
20:17 < ebowden> www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096098220801614X
20:17 < ebowden> .title
20:17 < yoleaux> ebowden: Sorry, that doesn't appear to be an HTML page.
20:17 < ebowden> Oh, right.
20:17 < ebowden> Lack of DREAM Protein Enhances Learning and Memory and Slows Brain Aging
20:17 < ebowden> Consider adding that to your list.
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20:21 < ebowden> And beware of p53.
20:21 < ebowden> http://www.jneurosci.org/content/17/4/1397.short
20:21 < ebowden> p53 Expression Induces Apoptosis in Hippocampal Pyramidal Neuron Cultures
20:23 < yash> aside from that being a very specific experiment, the intent was to introduce backup copies of p53 rather than just overexpress shit-tons of it everywhere
20:24 < ebowden> That's why I'm about to link some others.
20:26 < ebowden> Unfortunately my internet is a little slow.
20:26 < ebowden> www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006291X05007084
20:27 < ebowden> This is just an interesting tangent while I wait for that damn page to load: http://www.pnas.org/content/88/11/5006.full.pdf
20:28 < yash> ok well if we're engineering children to have redundant p53, immunity to HIV is part of the package
20:28 < ebowden> It should be.
20:29 < kanzure> yash: how does jax ship lab mice?
20:29 < yash> I've never had to work with mice thankfully
20:29 < kanzure> lame
20:29 < yash> fuckers bite
20:30 < kanzure> bite them back damn it
20:30 < yash> however I guess http://jaxmice.jax.org/jaxnotes/507/507s.html
20:30 < yash> "ultimate mouse comfort"
20:30 < kanzure> .title
20:30 < yoleaux> JAX Mice Shipping Containers: Comfortable, Clean, and Recyclable - The Jackson Laboratory
20:30 < kanzure> "the food and water supplies in the containers are more than adequate to maintain 20 mice for up to 7 days"
20:31 < kanzure> "the mice shipped by commercial air carriers are still at SPF status when they arrive at their destinations 1 month later."
20:31 < kanzure> i want to get disney to sue these guys somehow
20:31 < kanzure> i'm sure it's possible
20:32 < ebowden> heh
20:32 < yash> oh and wrt the third paper ebowden, I'm too jetlagged/lazy to read it but it seems to deal with mutated p53, wt p53 itself is not causing breast cancer
20:33 < ebowden> Did say it was a tangent.
20:33 < ebowden> Unless I sent the wrong link.
20:33 < ebowden> In which case I done goofed.
20:34 < ebowden> And this is another sort of cool tangent: http://www.pnas.org/content/96/13/7547.short
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20:36 < ebowden> Also: http://www.pnas.org/content/97/10/5346.full?sid=d0776647-521f-4907-b676-9c74d6ed85e5
20:36 < yash> side note, every week there's a new paper associating X gene with Y phenotype, and unless there's a strong obvious correlation I'd be hesitant to put it on the list, especially brain stuff
20:37 < ebowden> I've seen shitloads of them on that BDNF polymorphism for just about everything.
20:38 < ebowden> For some reason it has attracted a lot of research.
20:39 < yash> yeah probably
20:42 < ebowden> Anyway, in this case, knocking out p53 actually caused apoptotic lesions, it ended up messing with the expression of some other proteins.
20:42 < ebowden> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23605646
20:42 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1007%2Fs12192-013-0428-9
20:42 < ebowden> .title
20:42 < yoleaux> ebowden: Sorry, that doesn't appear to be an HTML page.
20:42 < ebowden> Overexpression of Hsp27 ameliorates symptoms of Alzheimer's disease in APP/PS1 mice.
20:43 < ebowden> That is sort of neat.
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20:46 < ebowden> Also: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC514815/
20:46 < ebowden> But: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10573111
20:47 < yash> perhaps I am just too jaded on research, but "transgene improves some measurements of mouse disease model when we get stretchy with p-values" papers do come out every week
20:48 < ebowden> heh
20:49 < ebowden> A title of a paper that might one day exist:
20:49 < yash> I'm sure the fine hungarian scientists publishing in [Springer journal with the exact title of the subject matter] have really hit on something; ok I'll stop
20:49 < ebowden> P-values: Do we really need them for feel-good research?
20:49 < ebowden> :D
20:50 < yash> eventually they'll find some profit-sharing agreement with click-bait popsci websites to fund their research, and the cycle will be complete
20:51 < ebowden> Just today I saw an article with the title: Virus Intelligence: Are Viruses Alive and Sentient?
20:52 < jrayhawk> it's a conspiracy. viruses are the ones who've been doing the p-hacking all along.
20:52 < ebowden> It made me wonder two things: How is the writer defining intelligence, and who the hell publishes this kind of shit?
20:53 < jrayhawk> i dunno, i could see ways for it to be true
20:53 < yash> a remarkable number of retractions occur because the cell lines turned out to be virally contaminated...perhaps it's not so coincidental after all
20:53 < jrayhawk> i mean, you'd have to stretch some definitions pretty thin, but that's how self-aggrandizing works
20:56 < jrayhawk> given 1) a fair percentage of the OTUs in the gut aren't even classifiable into existing kingdoms 2) the gut pretty much controls neurology and 3) most genomes are basically made of viruses, I can see pretty much arbitrarily sophisticated behavioral claims being made until research catches up.
20:56 < jrayhawk> which will probably be a couple decades
20:57 < ebowden> The same author also published: The Very Intelligent Ebola Virus Takes Front and Center
21:03 < ebowden> Not as bad as my creationist brother in law though.
21:03 < ebowden> He once gave me creationist propaganda for my birthday.
21:03 < ebowden> I shit you not.
21:11 < jrayhawk> culture warriors oblivious to epistemic quality? i think you're shitting me!
21:15 < ebowden> Apparently, in order to believe in evolution, the pathogenesis HIV, and gravity whilst remaining intellectually sound it is a requirement that you understand it all and spend a lot of time debunking and endless supply of denialist material.
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21:16 < jrayhawk> if culture warring is ineffective, you're clearly not doing it hard enough
21:16 < jrayhawk> sort of how if you're in a foreign country and they don't understand what you're saying in english, the solution is to SAY IT LOUDER
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21:19 < ebowden> He claims to have spent 25 years researching evolution and science.
21:20 < ebowden> Yet, he believes that dropping a magazine is sufficient scientific proof of the theory of gravity.
21:21 < ebowden> Apparently, there wasn't a whole lot of debate on it.
21:21 < jrayhawk> on the theory of gravity?
21:22 < ebowden> A scientist just got up in front of an auditorium and dropped a magazine, and everyone went: "Ohhhhh, right. Makes sense now." and applauded.
21:22 < jrayhawk> so does that mean gravitons do or don't exist
21:23 < ebowden> Apparently it doesn't matter.
21:23 < jrayhawk> i guess that's largely true
21:23 < ebowden> At least according to my creationist brother in law.
21:23 < nmz787> pfft, pope endorses big bang
21:23 < nmz787> tell him that
21:24 < nmz787> apparently the last pope or two did too
21:24 < jrayhawk> i don't think "endorse" is a fair characterization
21:24 < nmz787> at least evolution
21:24 < nmz787> idk, that's what I read a few days ago
21:24 < nmz787> that he said big bang ain't no joke
21:24 < jrayhawk> saying something is "not inconsistent with our religious beliefs" is not really a ringing endorsement
21:24 < nmz787> basically, since he speaks italian
21:24 < nmz787> i see it as it could be
21:24 < nmz787> why not
21:26 < jrayhawk> pooping your pants is "not inconsistent with my religious beliefs", but that doesn't mean i endorse pooping your pants
21:26 < nmz787> does it even say not to poop your pants though?
21:26 < nmz787> specifically?
21:27 < nmz787> oh
21:27 < nmz787> well
21:27 < nmz787> yeah
21:27 < jrayhawk> nevermind, i endorse pooping your pants
21:27 < nmz787> idk, i have never compared the big bang or physics to pooping pants
21:27 < nmz787> they seems like much different implications
21:28 < nmz787> people do science all over the place every day
21:28 < jrayhawk> gross
21:28 < nmz787> pooping of the pants must happen much less
21:28 < nmz787> so it is making a common thing more acceptable
21:29 < nmz787> if it was pooping of the pants that he mentioned not being inconsistent, then it must have been a topic of interest to the public/masses
21:29 < nmz787> thus his mention /is/ important
21:30 < jrayhawk> sure, it's culture-war countersignalling, but "endorse/disclaim" is a false dichotomy
21:30 < nmz787> i don't get what your latter half means
21:31 < nmz787> if it's false doesn't that mean they're one?
21:31 < jrayhawk> it means there are either less than or more than two options
21:32 < jrayhawk> in this case, endorse is a subset of not-disclaim, and disclaim is a subset of not-endorse
21:32 < jrayhawk> you can't infer that subset
21:34 < nmz787> i don't see how they can seem so different though
21:35 < nmz787> the point is important in general
21:35 < nmz787> it is OK now
21:36 < jrayhawk> Saying "gamergate is not about media ethics" is culture war countersignalling. Saying "Gamergate is not about misogyny" is also culture war countersignalling. Similarly, these two statements are not contradictory.
21:37 < jrayhawk> Saying "I do not disclaim evolution" is culture war countersignalling. Saying "I do not endorse evolution" is also culture war countersignalling. These two statements are not contradictory.
21:38 < jrayhawk> Culture warriors really *really* wish each of these comparisons were contradictory because it frames their warring as legitimate.
21:41 < nmz787> i actually don't know what gamergate is
21:43 < jrayhawk> http://paxdickinson.wordpress.com/2014/10/29/three-modern-grassroots-rebellions/ is the probably the most concise explanation I can give you.
21:43 < jrayhawk> the alternative is "read some of yudkowsky and most of scott alexander"
21:43 < nmz787> are you saying that the pope is bluffing/aiming-to-confuse (and thus madden)?
21:45 < jrayhawk> No.
21:46 < nmz787> honestly none of the jargon in that article makes much sense to me
21:46 < jrayhawk> He has seen a tribal fight and elected not to get involved.
21:46 < nmz787> maybe it's because i don't play games?
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21:49 < jrayhawk> i guess "go read most of scott alexander" will have to do, then
21:51 < nmz787> is it about games though? is it important?
21:53 < jrayhawk> in the "game theory" sense, otherwise mostly no, not about games.
21:53 < jrayhawk> and yes, understanding the dynamics of culture wars is pretty deeply important.
21:56 < jrayhawk> If you don't, you'll wonder why e.g. creationists attack you with meaningless epistemology.
21:56 < jrayhawk> and what to do about it
22:03 < nmz787> i tend to avoid people pretty well
22:03 < nmz787> but it is concerning that it could come up
22:04 < nmz787> but honestly, saying 'i don't know much more than that I heard the pope say\'s it\'s all good, I'll have to think about your opinion for a while, thanks!'
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22:05 < nmz787> is probably how i'd confront that
22:05 < nmz787> why feed some weird meme?
22:07 < nmz787> unless they were banging on my lab door
22:07 < nmz787> that would be something more concerning
22:10 < nmz787> huh, two back-to-back screens for sharing in meetings and such http://www.asus.com/Notebooks_Ultrabooks/ASUS_TAICHI_21/
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22:49 < nmz787> dang, 3k display on this baby http://www.amazon.com/Zenbook-UX303LN-DB71T-Quad-HD-Display-Touchscreen/dp/B00KTL21RA/
22:49 < nmz787> $1300
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23:04 < jrayhawk> yoga 2 has had that for a while
23:10 < nmz787> frys.com has 2 4k laptops
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