--- Log opened Sun Nov 09 00:00:10 2014 --- Day changed Sun Nov 09 2014 00:00 -!- thundara [~thundara@despair.OCF.Berkeley.EDU] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:16 -!- Viper168_ is now known as Viper168 00:18 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.147.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:18 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:19 < nmz787> I really wish this came with a 1080 display http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-X205TA-DH01-11-6-inch-Laptop-Dark/dp/B00OBA5AZU/ 00:26 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:44 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.147.27] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:06 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@147.69.147.27] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:06 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.147.27] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:14 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:15 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:19 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:37 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vogczrykoexfpuxu] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 01:39 -!- hypron [~hypron@p8120-ipngn100105yosemiya.okinawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: hypron] 02:10 -!- bbrittain [~bbrittain@172.245.212.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:11 -!- bbrittain [~bbrittain@172.245.212.12] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:33 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@77.88.71.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:05 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@147.69.147.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:11 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:22 < nmz787> .title http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0EBQKdQyyM 03:22 < yoleaux> (FULL) Ebola In Town - Shadow, D-12 & Kuzzy of 2kings (Liberia) - YouTube 03:34 -!- snuffeluffegus [~snuff@5.150.254.180] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:46 -!- hypron [~hypron@p8120-ipngn100105yosemiya.okinawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:47 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@2a02:810b:33f:dc18:f0cb:f:d283:55ff] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:47 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@2a02:810b:33f:dc18:f0cb:f:d283:55ff] has quit [Changing host] 03:47 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:06 -!- snuffeluffegus [~snuff@5.150.254.180] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:28 < kanzure> aha, so he has a brother that he hates 04:28 < kanzure> that explains a lot 04:28 < kanzure> i also suspected that his concerns were non-legitimate 04:28 < kanzure> a family member is not a sufficient reason to worry about you causing all labs in the world to be increasingly blown up 04:31 < kanzure> 20:47 < OP_NULL> only 1679 transactions in the whole history of Bitcoin aren't P2SH/P2PKH/multisig/OP_RETURN/raw pubkey. 04:36 < kanzure> http://evilrouters.net/mirror/doxbin.strangled.net.tar 04:50 < FourFire> increasingly? 04:51 < kanzure> yes he was worried that his interest in science would cause people to choose to blow up more buildings than they usually would 04:52 < FourFire> who are we talking about here, I'm afraid I missed the context entirely 04:52 < FourFire> sounds entirely too narcissistic to me 04:52 < kanzure> the context is irrelevant 04:52 < kanzure> it was a bad idea then and it's still a bad idea now 05:05 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-205-181-204.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:05 -!- drewbot_ [~cinch@ec2-54-166-253-25.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:35 < kanzure> https://www.sektioneins.de/en/blog/14-11-03-drupal-sql-injection-vulnerability-PoC.html 05:35 -!- hypron [~hypron@p8120-ipngn100105yosemiya.okinawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: hypron] 05:36 < chris_99> http://adamsblog.aperturelabs.com/2013/01/fun-with-masked-roms.html 05:37 < kanzure> hm 05:38 < kanzure> "Back in the early '70s, when Hughes Semiconductor was playing with PMOS chips, we used a technique of placing a powered up chip under a scanning electron microscope at fairly low magnification. The resulting image was very clear as to which traces were at 5V and which were at ground. Made recovering ROM data almost trivial, and worked great." 05:39 < kanzure> "apply electron microscope directly to chip" solves all problems guaranteed no money back 05:39 < kanzure> .title http://www.seanriddle.com/psu.html 05:39 < yoleaux> Sean Riddle's Home Page - 3851 PSU ROM bits 05:39 < chris_99> heh cool, theres also a mechanism to use lasers to read SRAM 05:44 -!- strangewarp_ [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:46 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:46 -!- strangewarp_ is now known as strangewarp 05:49 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rrjdgusrwgsaejtz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:03 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdKyf8fsH6w 06:03 < yoleaux> Ralph Merkle - An introduction to Molecular Nanotechnology - YouTube 06:05 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=705raszSLGA 06:05 < yoleaux> Mechanosynthesis - Ralph Merkle & Robert Freitas - YouTube 06:06 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4NhtUoADfE 06:06 < yoleaux> 6 - 3 - The Merkle-Damgard Paradigm-Cryptography-Professor Dan Boneh - YouTube 06:06 < kanzure> huh, he has no lecture videos about cryptography? 06:06 < kanzure> are we sure it's the same ralph merkle 06:07 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhPtQd9rAEo 06:07 < yoleaux> Part 1: Ralph Merkle on the State of the Art of Cryopreservation - YouTube 06:07 < kanzure> andytoshi: you may be amused by that last one 06:08 < andytoshi> ooh, will watch 06:27 -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:27 -!- snuffeluffegus [~snuff@5.150.254.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:55 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@66-161-138-110.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:57 < kanzure> seized .onions https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2014-November/035606.html 06:59 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:07 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:12 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:14 < kanzure> i don't understand, this claims to be about forms and not models, but looks exactly like models to me https://github.com/apotonick/reform 07:17 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8579280 07:17 < yoleaux> Logs of compromised Tor site released | Hacker News 07:18 < kanzure> "I've studied Tor vulnerabilities for two years. I'm seeing signs of traffic confirmation (active), traffic confirmation (passive), stream watermarking, and a massive willingness to shape control of the network with DoS. Just about every attack on hidden services (active and passive), of which I am aware, was deployed, all at once. The malformed packet DoS was especially clever. And I'm sure a ton more were used that never made it to the ... 07:18 < kanzure> ... academic research. It was almost comical, like the star ship captain saying "now on my mark, fire all photon torpedoes!" They just revealed a massive amount of capability to send a message: Tor is not safe. They want everyone to know that despite that sticker on Snowden's laptop, Tor remains vulnerable. But what remains interesting, and glaringly obviously absent, is user identification. The NSA does not appear to be able to deanonymize ... 07:18 < kanzure> ... users at will. That is, given enough time and enough resources, they can ID hidden services and long-term users, but given an arbitrary Tor exit and and TCP stream, they can't simply follow it back to its origin. A for effort. But in organizaton it looks like a military campaign, not a cyber attack. Straight out of the "total dominance" playbook. But of course it won't work. Tor isn't a country. Its an idea. You can't force the Internet ... 07:18 < kanzure> ... to "submit." All this did was make blindingly obvious holes that many researchers have been asking to be fixed for a while." 07:20 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:21 < chris_99> there doesn't really seem any solution to a global adversary though 07:22 < chris_99> unless you made the hidden service massively distributed maybe 07:23 < kanzure> it would probably help to not always run a .onion. maybe just a few hours a week, randomly. 07:24 < chris_99> maybe something more like freenet where it replicates data would work better, i dunno 07:24 < kanzure> https://blog.torservers.net/20141109/three-servers-offline-likely-seized.html 07:24 < kanzure> "Last Thursday we noticed that three servers went down. Those servers were used to run Tor exit nodes, 10 in total. We tried to get in contact with our providers which weren’t able to tell us anything and also could not reboot the servers nor give us access to them. On the same day it was reported that several government agencies took down hidden services. Even though our machines were only used as exit nodes, we believe that our machines ... 07:25 < kanzure> ... were also seized by law enforcement officials. We are trying to get further information about the incident. As soon as we know more we will inform you." 07:31 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:b532:c649:af96:29fb] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:33 < kanzure> yashgaroth: hi 07:33 < yashgaroth> yo 07:35 < kanzure> what's up 07:35 < yashgaroth> back from england, saw chido & pasky at brmlab, electrocuted some marshmallows there, a good time 07:37 < kanzure> oh good 07:38 < kanzure> brmlab is not in england, though 07:38 < yashgaroth> ya I was in prague for a few days, saw some castles and shit 07:38 < kanzure> there's a few other people in prague worth meeting 07:38 < kanzure> i would have hooked you up :| 07:38 < kanzure> castles n' shit awesome 07:38 < yashgaroth> who else in prague, other brmlab people? 07:39 * bkero will be in Prague on Thursday. 07:39 < kanzure> various hacker types 07:39 < kanzure> bkero: you should hang out at brmlab and meet chido/pasky for sure 07:39 < yashgaroth> well go check out brmlab, they will play you kraftwerk on their tesla coil, ask for one of my marshmallows 07:39 < kanzure> sanky is in prague somewhere 07:39 < bkero> kanzure: want to make an introduction? :) 07:40 < kanzure> pasky: hey here is a new victim 07:40 < kanzure> done 07:40 < pasky> hmm thursday is not such a good day 07:40 < bkero> I'll be there until the 18th, doing a hackathon for a piece of open source groupware 07:40 < pasky> we won't be at brmlab 07:40 < pasky> ah 07:40 < bkero> :) 07:40 < kanzure> i feel like i'm forgetting someone in prague though 07:40 < bkero> The only person I know in prague is slvrbckt 07:41 < bkero> a fellow hackerbeacher 07:41 < pasky> do stop by, then - i'm not sure in advance which evening we'll be in, so just ping me during the day if you want 07:41 < bkero> I can do that 07:41 < bkero> Around where in the city is it? 07:41 < pasky> Vltavska subway station 07:42 < bkero> Mmm okay 07:42 < bkero> I don't think that's too far 07:42 < pasky> red line 07:43 < kanzure> pasky is it true that you have pneumatic delivery 07:43 < kanzure> .wik prague pneumatic post 07:43 < pasky> the pipes are still in place but it's not functional 07:43 < yoleaux> "The Prague pneumatic post (Czech: Pražská potrubní pošta) is the world's last preserved municipal pneumatic post system. It is an underground system of metal tubes under the wider centre of Prague, totaling about 55 kilometres (34 mi) in length." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_pneumatic_post 07:43 < kanzure> damn 07:43 < pasky> some people were talking about pouring money into it 07:43 < pasky> but i don't know if that is happenning 07:43 < kanzure> literally? 07:44 < pasky> probably not :) 07:44 < bkero> Heh. "Sold on by former owner Telefónica O2 Czech Republic after some limited attempts to make repairs,[3] the system now belongs to businessman Zdeněk Dražil, who has announced plans to repair and reopen it as a working tourist attraction.[4] As of 2012, however, it remains closed." 07:46 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/A%20denial%20of%20service%20attack%20against%20fair%20computations%20using%20Bitcoin%20deposits.pdf 07:53 < kanzure> hm this version of chrome is very bad at loading multiple pdfs 07:55 < kanzure> "Our construction is based on indistinguishability obfuscation and obliviously-patchable puncturable pseudorandom functions" http://eprint.iacr.org/2014/910.pdf 07:59 < kanzure> chrome crashed. hooray... 08:01 -!- rkos [~rkos@228.ip-176-31-189.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:03 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/security/cryptography/How%20to%20use%20indistinguishability%20obfuscation:%20deniable%20encryption,%20and%20more.pdf 08:05 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/security/Baseband%20attacks:%20Remote%20exploitation%20of%20memory%20corruptions%20in%20cellular%20protocol%20stacks.pdf 08:06 < kanzure> "On Apple iPhones, JTAG access seems to be completely locked down. Hence, our debugging capabilities are limited. Baseband crash logs and baseband crash dumps are the only debugging facilities we found (an example of a baseband crash log is given in Appendix B). These are copied from the iPhone to a computer during the sync process. Alternatively crash logs can be obtained directly on jailbroken phones using an AT command, AT+XLOG. Baseband ... 08:06 < kanzure> ... crash dumps can be enabled by dialing *5005*CORE# in the phone dialer. These can be extracted from the directory /Library/Logs/CrashReporter/Baseband on jailbroken phones." 08:23 -!- _0bitcount [~big-byte@81.61.34.185.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:38 -!- snuffeluffegus [~snuff@5.150.254.180] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:20 -!- helleshin [~talinck@66-161-138-110.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:37 -!- pete4242 [~smuxi@boole.london.hackspace.org.uk] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:56 -!- strangewarp_ [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:57 -!- strangewarp_ [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:57 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:57 -!- strangewarp_ [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:34 -!- _0bitcount [~big-byte@81.61.34.185.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:51 -!- rayston [~rayston@ip68-106-242-42.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:56 < bkero> So 10:56 < bkero> I'm headed to CERN tomorrow 10:56 < bkero> for a tour of the ATLAS experiment 10:56 < bkero> and I'm not sure what questions I should ask 10:57 < chris_99> nice 10:58 < kanzure> bkero: how about the engineering planning aspects? 10:59 < kanzure> and coordination 10:59 < kanzure> number of parts, timeline, debugging, did it work perfectly day one and how 10:59 < bkero> Engineering planning aspects? I think they're done with the build. Right now they have the tunnel down for maintenance though. 10:59 < bkero> So I'll actually be able to go down into the tunnel. 11:00 < bkero> but yeah. I'm gettina tour by the openstack/ceph guys, so I can ask them all about the data acquisition and recording and infrastructure too 11:14 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:21 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1062976910000475 11:21 < kanzure> "Adverse selection and reputation in a world of cheap talk" 11:21 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/%0A%20Adverse%20selection%20and%20reputation%20in%20a%20world%20of%20cheap%20talk%0A%20.pdf 11:22 -!- rayston [~rayston@ip68-106-242-42.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:25 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:25 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:33 < kanzure> https://soundcloud.com/suffusedmusic/frisky-diary-043?in=suffusedmusic/sets/diary 11:33 < kanzure> 043 is good 11:38 < delinquentme> I IZ WAKE 11:38 < delinquentme> HEAR ROAR 11:39 * delinquentme meow 11:39 < delinquentme> kanzure, there is a time / place for this extended chill 11:39 < delinquentme> idk if its right now 4 me 11:41 -!- hypron [~hypron@p8120-ipngn100105yosemiya.okinawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:42 -!- sheena [~home@d154-5-153-82.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:56 < andytoshi> hi, i would like to learn to read rot13 fluently. has anyone does this? any tips? 11:56 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.147.27] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:00 < ThomasEgi> paperbot, http://psycnet.apa.org/?&fa=main.doiLanding&doi=10.1037/0893-3200.13.3.321 12:00 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1037%2F0893-3200.13.3.321 12:03 < justanotheruser> andytoshi: wat 12:04 < justanotheruser> Like you want to be able to read rot13 and understand it without translating? 12:04 < andytoshi> yes 12:04 < justanotheruser> lol 12:04 < justanotheruser> are you being serious? 12:04 < andytoshi> (a) for brain plasticity, (b) to see what it feels like (answer: based on the last 5 mins of doing it, you stop seeing the actual letters and just read the english, which is a weird disconnect), (c) as a party trick 12:04 < andytoshi> justanotheruser: yes 12:06 < justanotheruser> I guess those are good reasons. I can't read it, but you should just read a bunch of basic sentences that are rot13. I can't imagine it's too hard to get used to reading one letter as another. 12:15 < kanzure> yeah i think it is possible 12:16 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has quit [] 12:20 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:32 -!- hypron [~hypron@p8120-ipngn100105yosemiya.okinawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: hypron] 12:34 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.147.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38 < ParahSailin_> is it possible to learn to read cyrillic? 12:40 < kanzure> nah that's definitely impossible 12:40 < justanotheruser> ParahSailin_: no, it is only a spoken language, the letters are there because russians think they look cool 12:46 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:49 < jrayhawk> https://www.sciencenews.org/article/home-brain-stimulation-gaining-followers a surprisingly thorough article 12:53 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:57 < kanzure> "Right now, it’s perfectly legal to build or buy a tDCS system." wait what? 13:00 < chris_99> can anyone recommend any manufacturers of trinocular microscopes, i'm looking at nikon and olympus atm 13:00 < kanzure> amscope sent me an okay microscope for a few hundred bucks, but it's not world-changing 13:00 -!- yash [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:b532:c649:af96:29fb] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:01 < chris_99> aha let me check them out 13:01 < kanzure> 100x objectives are pretty lame, try to find a 400x solid objective lens with some sort of pluggable illumination system 13:02 < chris_99> was yours trinocular? 13:02 < kanzure> yes 13:03 < chris_99> do you have a link/model of yours per chance? 13:04 < kanzure> this is pretty close: http://web.archive.org/web/20140419055419/http://www.amscope.com/t120c.html 13:04 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:b532:c649:af96:29fb] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:04 < chris_99> cheers 13:10 < chris_99> you don't happen to know the manufacturer, since i'm in the UK i'll try and find a local supplier 13:12 -!- qu-bit [~shroedngr@unaffiliated/barriers] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:16 < chris_99> oh some people are selling some on Amazon uk 13:18 < nmz787> kanzure: was your first response this morning directed at me? 13:18 < nmz787> kanzure: I don't have a brother, at least not a real one 13:22 < kanzure> no not you 13:22 < kanzure> chris_99: this wont get you very good 2000x :-/ 13:23 < chris_99> hmmm, maybe look for a nikon/olympus one? 2nd hand 13:27 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@77.88.71.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:35 < nmz787> chris_99: depends on what you want to do 13:35 < chris_99> so, looking at doing stuff like decapping chips potentially 13:35 < nmz787> http://adamsblog.aperturelabs.com/2013/01/fun-with-masked-roms.html 13:36 < nmz787> yeah 13:36 < nmz787> just read that 13:36 < kanzure> electron microscope would be more useful with decapping 13:36 < nmz787> yeah you likely won't be able to see much recent processes... 13:36 < nmz787> I'm not sure what year most chips got smaller than the diffraction limit of vis light 13:36 < nmz787> i made large-scale transistors for a class, 13:37 < nmz787> i think they were 150 or 300 microns 13:37 < kanzure> how large? 13:37 < kanzure> ok 13:37 < nmz787> hundreds 13:37 < kanzure> did you test them? 13:37 < nmz787> can't remember exactly 13:37 < nmz787> little wires that moved into view on a scope 13:37 < nmz787> chip testing station 13:37 < nmz787> ' 13:37 < nmz787> ... there's a more appropriate name 13:37 < nmz787> wafer inspection station, maybe 13:38 < chris_99> hmm aren't things like microcontrollers, still made on a larger fab process, or is that not the case anymore 13:39 -!- rayston [~rayston@ip68-106-242-42.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:39 < nmz787> chris_99: probably depends on how 'cloner' the fab is 13:39 < nmz787> i don't realy know 13:40 < nmz787> ebay has listings for 'wafer probe' and 'wafer inspection' but I can't seem to filter for only UK listing 13:42 < nmz787> chris_99: you should check to see if any schools around you have underutilized equipment... for example there's a catholic highschool in the next town that has a highly underutilized SEM 13:42 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@77.88.71.225] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:42 < chris_99> mmm interesting 13:42 < chris_99> http://siliconpr0n.org/map/microchip/pic32mx695f_512h-80ip/top_metal_mit20x/ -- that's a fairly modern PIC btw 13:43 < nmz787> no scale bars 13:43 < nmz787> well 13:43 < nmz787> that are correct 13:43 < nmz787> 'damn that chip is 1000s of km wide' 13:44 < nmz787> using monochromatic light would help to resolve the finest photo-features with a non-optimal microscope 13:45 < nmz787> this has a table of process scale timeline http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_device_fabrication 13:45 < nmz787> says 10 micron hasn't been popular since 1971 13:45 < nmz787> :P 13:50 -!- rayston [~rayston@ip68-106-242-42.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:57 -!- sheena [~home@d162-156-158-13.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:11 < kanzure> "For a great example of DYIBio, the story of Russell Marker and his work in steroids is an entertaining read[1] He basically bailed on his PhD which caused his advisor to say "you'll never be more than a urine analyst". He moved to Mexico and started running his own lab to extract a hormone precursor from Mexican yams. At the time, several steroids were selling for hundreds of dollars a gram. He was able to make them for a hundredth of that. ... 14:11 < kanzure> ... can't find the original paper, but apparently his crowning achievement was when he published his seminal work and the address he provided was the Calinda Geneve hotel in Mexico City. [1] http://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/education/whatischemistry/landmarks/progesteronesynthesis.html " 14:14 < nmz787> so I went through my notes from the IC Technology class I took where we made the transistors, and apparently I take bad notes, as I found something that said 600-650uM but I am not sure if that was the feature scale (line width) or the transistor width 14:15 < nmz787> chris_99: this material may interest you http://people.rit.edu/lffeee/emcr701lab.htm 14:15 < chris_99> ta, just watching a talk on decapping 14:16 < nmz787> pg 39 lists some lab demo sizes http://people.rit.edu/lffeee/Lec_CAD.pdf 14:17 < nmz787> 'PMOS Transistor L=20 µm, W=100 µm' 14:17 -!- rayston [~rayston@ip68-106-242-42.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:18 < nmz787> the last two PDFS in that table are on chip testing 14:19 < nmz787> hah, they're using the Digilent Analog Discovery kit for some stuff 14:19 < chris_99> do they rate the maximum resolution of a microscope lens as lp/mm like with camera lenses or something else 14:21 < nmz787> apparently they're offerring a short course in January http://www.rit.edu/kgcoe/eme/IC%20Short%20Course 14:22 < nmz787> doesn't list a cost though, so it could be free (I doubt it, though it is possible) or it's ridiculous 14:23 < nmz787> chris_99: they usually just quote the diffraction limit 14:23 < chris_99> ah ok 14:23 < nmz787> I'm not sure what the actual 'tested value' would be written as 14:25 < nmz787> 'On the other hand, in electron microscopy, line or fringe resolution refers to the minimum separation detectable between adjacent parallel lines (e.g. between planes of atoms), while point resolution instead refers to the minimum separation between adjacent points that can be both detected and interpreted e.g. as adjacent columns of atoms, for instance. The former often helps one detect periodicity in specimens, while the latter (although more ... 14:25 < nmz787> ... difficult to achieve) is key to visualizing how individual atoms interact.' 14:25 < nmz787> .wik Image resolution 14:25 < yoleaux> "Image resolution is the detail an image holds. The term applies to raster digital images, film images, and other types of images. Higher resolution means more image detail." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_resolution 14:27 < chris_99> "Typical magnification of a light microscope, assuming visible range light, is up to 1250x with a theoretical resolution limit of around 0.250 micrometres or 250 nanometres." 14:27 < chris_99> "Sarfus, a recent optical technique increases the sensitivity of standard optical microscope to a point it becomes possible to directly visualize nanometric films (down to 0.3 nanometre) and isolated nano-objects (down to 2 nm-diameter). The technique is based on the use of non-reflecting substrates for cross-polarized reflected light microscopy." 14:27 < chris_99> that sounds interesting 14:29 < nmz787> the nobel prize tihs year or last was for super-res light microscopy 14:29 < nmz787> but that was some crayz fluorophore or multi-photon thing 14:29 < nmz787> fluorophore-quencing* 14:29 < nmz787> quenching 14:29 < chris_99> aha interesting 14:30 < chris_99> so if the limit is 250nm with conventional stuff, does it mean you only see copper traces etc. on the chip, but not the transistors themsevles 14:31 < nmz787> depends on the fab process scale 14:31 < nmz787> 'Electrons boil off the filament and ionize the gas. Solenoid make electrons follow a spiral path increasing ionization' 14:37 -!- sheena2 [~home@d162-156-158-13.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:39 -!- sheena [~home@d162-156-158-13.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:40 -!- snuffeluffegus [~snuff@5.150.254.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:41 < nmz787> kanzure: is wget the best way to scrape recursively all content from this page ? http://people.rit.edu/lffeee/ 14:41 < nmz787> it would be good to have a mirror of that 14:46 < kanzure> it's an okay way of doing that 14:51 < nmz787> crazy to think i took that lab class in 2009 14:53 < nmz787> these could be useful, on non-excel format http://people.rit.edu/lffeee/tools/ (I guess excel /is/ useful too) 14:59 -!- Burn_ [~Burn@pool-71-191-174-26.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:59 -!- Burn_ [~Burn@pool-71-191-174-26.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:05 < nmz787> this is pretty cool, the opposite of de-packaging http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/rit/RIT_Package.pdf 15:05 < nmz787> shows some MEMS and even a microfludiic example 15:06 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:06 -!- Viper168 is now known as Viper168_ 15:07 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:07 < nmz787> more on that here http://people.rit.edu/lffeee/Fluid_Channels.pdf 15:08 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:08 < nmz787> 'TAPES FOR DICING' 15:08 < nmz787> special sticky tape 15:08 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:10 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:19 < chris_99> btw nmz787 turns out the talk i'm watching in the latter 1/2 is about that mask rom think i linked to earlier https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z4aF-qiziM 15:45 -!- pete4242 [~smuxi@boole.london.hackspace.org.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:56 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:57 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rrjdgusrwgsaejtz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 16:02 < ParahSailin_> nmz787: why are they wearing the veils wrong 16:07 < nmz787> ParahSailin_: which? 16:08 < ParahSailin_> http://people.rit.edu/lffeee/LynnElainaLab.jpg 16:08 < ParahSailin_> for the photo op i guess 16:10 < kanzure> .title http://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/education/whatischemistry/landmarks/progesteronesynthesis.html 16:10 < yoleaux> Russell Marker Creation of the Mexican Steroid Hormone Industry - Landmark - American Chemical Society 16:12 < kanzure> uhh 16:12 < kanzure> "Marker ended his research program at Penn State during 1943 and resigned on December 1. He also told Parke-Davis he would only sign patent applications until that date. When the company delayed until April 1944, Marker refused to assign patent rights to anyone, including himself, thus granting free use of his invention to anyone interested." 16:12 < kanzure> i'm not sure that's how it works.... 16:12 < kanzure> "According to Marker, Somlo was to receive 52% of the shares, Lehmann, 8%, and Marker, 40%, partly in return for his two kilos of progesterone." 16:12 < kanzure> progesterone4equity, got it 16:13 < kanzure> "In May 1945, a rancorous dispute between Marker and his partners over profits and their distribution caused Marker to sever all ties with Syntex and leave the company. Syntex was unable to make more progesterone because Marker not only had done the key operations himself but had coded the reagent bottles and left no directions." 16:27 < kanzure> meh 16:32 < streety> at least he was deliberate, often when people move on you don't know what they did even though their intention was that you would 16:33 < kanzure> is that your way of saying i don't email you enough? :) 16:33 < kanzure> (i know it's not.) 16:35 -!- snuffeluffegus [~snuff@5.150.254.180] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:41 < streety> more me reflecting on the state of my lab notebooks from my PhD 16:42 < kanzure> ah 16:42 < kanzure> oh deliberate about not labeling 16:44 < streety> yeah 16:46 < streety> I wonder if there are more or less opportunities today for that sort of enterprise 16:46 < streety> We understand much more synthetic chemistry but we also use a wider variety of chemicals 17:03 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:14 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:18 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:33 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:22 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.147.27] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:57 < heath> kanzure: your Adverse selection and reputation in a world of cheap talk paper linked earlier doesn't seem to work, guess i should try on a different box 18:57 < heath> s/doesn't seem to work/doesn't seem to be valid a pdf 18:58 < kanzure> paperbot is still broken 18:58 < kanzure> everyone likes to complain but nobody fixes 19:00 < heath> that seems more like a hosting problem? 19:00 < heath> oh, maybe it didn't fetch the correct file 19:02 < kanzure> the problem is ec2 19:02 < kanzure> nmz787 added a thing to check ec2, the ec2 server is failing 19:02 < kanzure> .. or something. 19:08 < kanzure> i don't know the exact source of the problem 19:11 < kanzure> i want the radiation keycap http://i.imgur.com/p6oQASl.jpg 19:11 < kanzure> oh, just a fan 19:11 < kanzure> or a biohazard keycap. hrm. 19:19 < justanotheruser> looks like it would fit poorly o_O 19:20 < kanzure> biohazard symbols make you type faster 19:20 < kanzure> ... maybe. 19:27 < fenn> what does "GEEK HACK" key do? 19:40 -!- yashgaroth_ [~ffffff@cpe-76-167-105-53.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:41 -!- juul [~juul@static.2.202.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 19:43 < catern> geek hack is a keyboard ricer community 19:43 -!- juul [~juul@juul.io] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:44 -!- yash [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:b532:c649:af96:29fb] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:51 < nmz787> ricer as in modifying Nissan automobiles? 19:52 < nmz787> ParahSailin_: the hoods in that pic look like they're being worn correctly... if it was backwards their faces would be covered 19:53 < ParahSailin_> i can see their noses 19:54 < nmz787> why is that wrong? 19:54 < nmz787> there are various levels of cleanroom garments 19:54 < nmz787> I was in a clean room an hour ago in a Levi's flannel 19:56 < nmz787> ParahSailin_: some mixed dress in the same image https://www.rit.edu/kgcoe/sites/rit.edu.kgcoe/files/styles/resource_image/public/image.jpg?itok=oMtWDib_ 19:59 < nmz787> does anyone think a pay-per-minute FIB/SEM online experience be worth putting together? Or maybe a silicon Capture-The-Flag challenge that had a component that connected you to a real FIB (it could even be faked, if you slice and image the IC completely... which might be a lot of work) 20:09 < fenn> it's wrong because the whole point of the face mask is to prevent particulates from coming out of your mouth and nose 20:09 < fenn> also, a true ninja never shows his nose 20:18 < fenn> so sarfus can only mesaure superresolution in the axial dimension? 20:20 -!- thundara [~thundara@despair.OCF.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:20 -!- thundara [~thundara@despair.OCF.Berkeley.EDU] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:42 < nmz787> meh, lots of people don't even wear facemasks, just the hoods 20:43 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:44 < nmz787> I guess I don't know how intel fabs generally look 20:44 < nmz787> but that's how it was at school 20:45 < nmz787> mostly as I remember the guys without beards more often didn't have a mask on 20:48 -!- maaku [~quassel@50-0-37-37.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 20:51 -!- yashgaroth_ [~ffffff@cpe-76-167-105-53.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:51 -!- maaku [~quassel@50-0-37-37.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:51 -!- maaku is now known as Guest89859 20:51 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:52 -!- strangewarp_ [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:19 < delinquentme> just found a bug in gcloud :P 21:19 < delinquentme> HUE HUE HUE HUE auth schemez 21:21 < delinquentme> kanzure, will sell to you for 5 crates of pomagranites 21:21 < delinquentme> no wait 10 21:22 < delinquentme> nmz787, you need to get in on this bidding warz 21:24 -!- snuffeluffegus [~snuff@5.150.254.180] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:27 -!- kenju254 [~kenju254@static-41-242-0-196.ips.angani.co] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:30 -!- kenju254 [~kenju254@static-41-242-0-196.ips.angani.co] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:31 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:25 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.147.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.147.27] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:35 -!- skyraider [uid41097@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ndsbdjwduaasniwa] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 23:11 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:12 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:16 -!- Viper168_ is now known as Viper168 23:20 -!- Burn_ [~Burn@pool-71-191-174-26.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:21 -!- Burn_ [~Burn@pool-71-191-174-26.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:21 < kanzure> .title https://code.google.com/p/lea/ 23:22 < yoleaux> lea - Discrete probability distributions in Python - Google Project Hosting 23:24 < fenn> the lesswrong people will love that 23:25 < kanzure> interstellar wasn't the total let down its trailers made it out to be 23:27 < fenn> i guess that's a compliment 23:30 < fenn> packmanta 2 points 7 months ago: I am planning to try again this weekend but there will be a few key differences: 1. putting on head and turning on in the proper order this time (obviously), 2. with friends present as opposed to alone, 3. at the lowest current setting the focus allows, 4. using only external electrodes. Will update. Promise. 23:30 < fenn> toxicfume 2 points 4 months ago  23:30 < fenn> Well, any update? 23:30 < fenn> cloudfucker 7 points 3 months ago  23:30 < fenn> RIP packmanta 23:30 < kanzure> conclusion: does not cause promise keeping 23:31 < fenn> thread about foc.us tDCS device zapping him when turned on before connecting electrodes 23:31 < kanzure> i really think calibration with a chunk of meat from the grocery store would be a good idea 23:32 < kanzure> or even animals 23:32 < fenn> conclusion: tDCS decreases ability to keep promises 23:32 < fenn> sure if you're willing to put it on your head you should be willing to put it on your dog 23:32 < kanzure> alright you write the draft to _science_ and i'll take the credit 23:32 < kanzure> fall guy will be yashgaroth 23:33 < fenn> dear science, we wanted to do this experiment but yashgaroth wouldn't let us. yours, ##hplusroadmap 23:33 < kanzure> hey it's better than the shit they usually publish 23:33 < kanzure> anything's possible 23:33 < fenn> actually schloendorn was like "i've got all these mice laying around, wanna do some experiments?" 23:34 < kanzure> he's not wrong 23:34 < fenn> of course lab mouses are all retarded mutants anyway 23:34 < fenn> so any gain of function on their part doesn't necessarily represent anything 23:34 < kanzure> p value accounts for that, right? 23:34 < fenn> no 23:34 < kanzure> 23:35 < fenn> it's a systematic bias; all lab mouses are retarded mutants 23:36 < fenn> i need to find better words than "bias" 23:36 < fenn> it may be true that X helps lab mice, but that doesn't imply it helps anything that is not a lab mouse 23:37 < jrayhawk> "low-quality null hypothesis" 23:37 < fenn> "null hypothesis" is a difficult concept 23:37 < fenn> "a general statement or default position that there is no relationship between two measured phenomena" huh? 23:39 < fenn> in the specific context i guess it means "the treatment has no measurable effect" 23:39 < fenn> but it does have a measurable effect, just not the effect you're trying to measure 23:41 < jrayhawk> if the null hypothesis is a stupid thing nobody cares about, then the hypothesis will also be a stupid thing nobody cares about 23:42 < fenn> what is the null hypothesis in my lab mouse tDCS experiment? 23:45 < fenn> is the null hypothesis "there is no relationship between treatments that help lab mice and treatments that help people"? 23:48 < fenn> is it "tDCS has no effect on lab mice"? 23:54 < jrayhawk> s/lab mice/retarded mutants fed industrial waste and exposed to bad circadian signalling and a an otherwise stressful environment/ 23:54 < jrayhawk> s/a an/an/ 23:55 < fenn> wait, actually that sounds pretty salient 23:59 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Mon Nov 10 00:00:46 2014