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06:27 < chris_99> nmz787, are you about per chance?
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07:17 < kanzure> hrmph
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08:40 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern_language
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08:52 < archels> this seems to be quite active http://transhumanity.net/
08:53 < archels> wonder who's behind it--this Foundation they speak of in their about page
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10:13 < kanzure> you guys are boring
10:21 < eudoxia> well what have you been doing that's less boring
10:21 < yoleaux> 29 Nov 2014 22:08Z <kanzure> eudoxia: someone linked to your page here http://nextbigfuture.com/2014/11/dna-nanotechnology-breaking-through.html
10:24 < eudoxia> cool
10:29 < chris_99> i got a price for fabrication of microfluidic chips that ranges from $500 - $1500 depending on the fab process/how deep they etch, apparently they go down to a 5um process
10:35 < kanzure> yoleaux is back
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10:36 < eudoxia> we'll see
10:36 < eudoxia> .wa 200lbs in kg
10:36 < yoleaux> convert 200 lb (pounds) to kilograms: 90.72 kg (kilograms); Additional conversions: 14 stone 4 pounds; 0.1 sh tn (short tons); 90718 grams; Comparison as mass: ~1.3 × typical standard adult human male mass (~70 kg); Corresponding quantities: Weight w of a body from w = mg:: 890 N (newtons): 8.896×10⁷ dynes: 90718 ponds: 200 lbf (pounds-force): 6.2 slugf (slugs-force)
10:37 < eudoxia> finally
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10:43 < ginkgo_mole> kanzure
10:44 < kanzure> sup
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10:50 < nmz787_i> chris_99: there's a place in ireland that might be cheap for you
10:50 < chris_99> oooh linky?
10:55 < nmz787_i> https://www.tyndall.ie/content/wafer-fabrication
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10:56 < nmz787_i> err, I guess this more specifically https://www.tyndall.ie/content/mems-0
10:56 < nmz787_i> it just links to enquiry@tyndall.ie
10:56 < chris_99> cheers, to start with i'll probably just order those ones from thailand, but in the future that could be useful
10:56 < nmz787_i> but I had been chatting with a guy there months back
10:56 < chris_99> oh nice
10:57 < nmz787_i> also I recommend posting on linkedin, they have some relatively active microfluidics forums
10:57 < nmz787_i> lots of folks post links to suppliers, and lots of suppliers drop their company names/contact info
10:57 < chris_99> oh heh, i've not used linkedin for that kind of stuff heh
10:57 < chris_99> nice
10:58 < chris_99> oh i was gonna ask you before, so the supplier says    YM-01 can approximately contain 70-700 uL for 10 and 100 um depth, respectively.
10:58 < chris_99> ideally i'd probably want the lowest depth i assume
10:58 < chris_99> so 10um
10:58 < nmz787_i> your yeast are prob 30 um
10:58 < chris_99> no , 5um
10:58 < nmz787_i> consider clogging?
10:59 < chris_99> oh actually wiki says ' typically measuring 3–4 µm in diameter, although some yeasts can reach over 40 µm '
10:59 < chris_99> yes good point
10:59 < chris_99> so 100um would be more sane?
10:59 < nmz787_i> 'Yeast size can vary greatly depending on the species, typically measuring 3–4 µm in diameter, although some yeasts can reach over 40 µm'
10:59 < nmz787_i> from .wik yeast
10:59 < nmz787_i> oh
10:59 < nmz787_i> derp
10:59 < chris_99> heh
10:59 < nmz787_i> yea
11:00 < chris_99> i'll probably order 3 different chips
11:00 < chris_99> to see how they compare
11:01 < nmz787_i> well to be fair the ref for that quote isnt about saccharomyces
11:01 < chris_99> oh yeah
11:01 < chris_99> hmm
11:01 < nmz787_i> http://www.probrewer.com/library/filtration/brewery-filter-applications/
11:02 < chris_99> "S. cerevisiae cells are round to ovoid, 5–10 micrometres in diameter"
11:02 < chris_99> so maybe 50um slide would be ok
11:02 < nmz787_i> what is DE?
11:02 < chris_99> just waiting for it to load
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11:03 < chris_99> hmm no idea
11:03 < nmz787_i> the only bad thing about going too tall is focus
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11:03 < nmz787_i> if you're trying to get images quickly
11:03 < nmz787_i> otherwise they would be distributed through the Z
11:03 < nmz787_i> and you'd need to let them settle for some time
11:03 < nmz787_i> (this would also allow diffusive mixing)
11:03 < chris_99> yeah, so i want as small Z as possible
11:04 < chris_99> but not too small to clog
11:04 < nmz787_i> unless you had a thick enough depth of field/focus... or maybe did some holographic imaging
11:04 < chris_99> heh, as in take photos at different angles?
11:06 < nmz787_i> no like those lens-free papers we were talking about some time ago
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11:06 < chris_99> oh
11:07 < nmz787_i> maybe this http://www.pnas.org/content/108/18/7296.full
11:09 < chris_99> that sounds cool
11:09 < chris_99> it does sound like they vary the angle of light?
11:10 < chris_99> that seems v. clever
11:12 < nmz787_i> chris_99: pm
11:12 < nmz787_i> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3521054/
11:12 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1117%2F1.JBO.17.12.126018
11:13 < nmz787_i> ncbi has that http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3521054/pdf/JBO-017-126018.pdf
11:13 < chris_99> cheers
11:13 < nmz787_i> oh, paperbot is now sneaky
11:13 < chris_99> oh it just grabs stuff?
11:21 < chris_99> i saw krasnow did a thing on laser mics interesting, didn't seem to work too well with the double-glazing alas
11:21 < chris_99> he thought a photomultiplier could be useful, and aim the laser at a painting in the room
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11:40 < delinquentme> any chance someone might have an estimated cost on an arcgis server?
11:48 < nmz787_i> isn't that just a normal server running a spatial dbms?
11:48 < nmz787_i> so cost of hardware + arcgis dbms license for # of users, etc
11:52 < nmz787_i> interesting concept for testing chip-scale devices http://www.swtest.org/swtw_library/2000proc/pdf/S04_Chan.pdf
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11:55 < nmz787_i> huh, this is quite informative of the fab flow process http://www.ntktech.com/admin/upload/files/htccpkggeneraldg_reva.pdf
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11:56 < nmz787_i> ooo, but then type 'BERIED CONDUCTOR LAYER'
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11:59 < nmz787_i> "Notably, Khurana et al., demonstrated that photoluminescence emission coincides with the switching of a transistor, thereby showing that, in addition to failure analysis, the phenomenon can also be used for device debug and circuit design. "
12:00 < nmz787_i> I guess it would be easier to fab LEDs for bio gene-induction based on light
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12:22 < kanzure> "For those of you interested in what the NYDFS is looking through, all 3,746 public comments are now available: http://www.dfs.ny.gov/legal/vcrf_comments.htm "
12:27 < eudoxia> kanzure: are those about that bill that would have regulated bitcoin in NYC?
12:27 < kanzure> these are comments from the public regarding the proposed "bitlicense"
12:28 < eudoxia> right, that's what i meant i think
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12:57 < nmz787_i> lapd.evidence.com
12:57 < nmz787_i> .title
12:57 < yoleaux> DFS: Comments Regarding the Proposed Virtual Currency Regulatory Framework
12:57 < nmz787_i> .title http://lapd.evidence.com
12:58 < yoleaux> EVIDENCE.COM
12:58 < nmz787_i> 'Forgot your username or password?'
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13:21 < kanzure> "Steve Coles, MD, GRG founder, experienced cardiac arrest in Scottsdale AZ at 8:50, Dec 3, about  45 min ago. Scottsdale is where Alcor is, and Steve had traveled there last week to be close to the cryonics foundation."
13:21 < kanzure> "Steve died very peacefully of pneumonia, secondary to his pancreatic cancer, and cryopreservation was begun immediately. His wife  has been present throughout the process, and has been a great support to all."
13:36 < eudoxia> it's good to know he received a prompt cryopreservation
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13:41 < kanzure> yeah that's like a happy ending to a fairy tale
13:41 < kanzure> "and they were all cryopreserved in a timely manner, the end"
13:42 < eudoxia> many people have unfortunately not made it so it's always good to hear
13:43 < kanzure> did i ever tell you about a friend of mine who was building these cryopreservation inflation suits
13:43 < kanzure> so that on impact in a terrible accident you would be cryopreserved within a few minutes?
13:44 < drazak> I guess I was old and had lived a good life and had not a whole lot left to complete, I wouldn't really see the point of cryopreservation for myself
13:44 < kanzure> have fun being dead dude
13:44 < eudoxia> kanzure: no, but please tell me more
13:45 < kanzure> maybe later. i don't have details in working memory at the moment.
13:46 < eudoxia> do you have a source for the cryo bits? the GRG website doesn't say anything, and i can't find anything on the usual sources
13:46 < eudoxia> i.e. longecity, exi mailing list
13:47 < kanzure> grg mailing list
13:48 < kanzure> for steve coles? if that's what you mean
13:48 < kanzure> as for the cryopreservation-on-impact that was either in person or over the phone
13:48 < eudoxia> yes, thanks
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14:06 < archels> kanzure: no record of that transhumanity.net website?
14:18 < kanzure> 15:40 < superkuh> This is one example of it: http://transhumanity.net/articles/entry/digital-nootropics
14:18 < kanzure> 00:42 < eleitl> oh, by the way, what do you think of latest transhumanity.net content.
14:18 < kanzure> 02:15 < eleitl> archels, if a thinking person goes to http://transhumanity.net/ what would she think?
14:18 < kanzure> 19:21 < kanzure> ughh http://transhumanity.net/articles/entry/were-offering-certificate-programs-in-transhumanism
14:18 < kanzure> 21:19 <@kanzure> http://transhumanity.net/articles/entry/diy-grinding-get-in-here-transhumanism-is-a-verb-not-a-club
14:19 < kanzure> their landing page is pretty bad
14:19 < kanzure> looks like hplusmagazine
14:19 < kanzure> "solar dresses"
14:20 < kanzure> i hate all of you
14:20 < superkuh> I don't remember that.
14:20 < kanzure> eh i didn't look at context in your case, just checking for archels
14:21 < kanzure> although i do like how eugen leitl had already told archels about the site :)
14:21 < superkuh> Maybe a horrible article about binaural beats and low power magnetic "stimulation" I did not like.
14:21 < superkuh> My best guess (even if it is not relevant to the current topic of conversation).
14:22 < kanzure> 15:37 < superkuh> Guh. What is it with people who call themselves transhumanists believing in weak magnetic field effects and Persinger's bullshit?
14:22 < kanzure> yep...
14:23 < kanzure> 15:39 < superkuh> These guys think that ultra-low strength magnetic fields, microgauss, can somehow interact with the brain through stochastic resonances (or some shit, they never talk mechanism).
14:30 < kanzure> https://www.gen9bio.com/resources/g-prize/ "This year, in order to further spark innovation in synthetic biology, two 500,000 base pair prizes will be awarded, one to a pre-commercial startup and one to an academic/public-benefit organization, for a total of 1 million base pairs of synthesized DNA. The winning teams can select to have their DNA sent as any length from 400bp to 10kbp.  The submission deadline is midnight EST, 31 December ...
14:30 < kanzure> ... 2014."
14:30 < archels> kanzure: oh, nice. I wonder where eleitl got it from...
14:30 < kanzure> eleitl is perhaps more "plugged in" than i am
14:30 < kanzure> probably has more of the european transhumanist community than i do
14:31 < kanzure> seeing as how he's been around in germany since forever
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14:33 < kanzure> ""Ryan Bethencourt seized his opportunity back in 2008. That made him an outlier: most people, after all, were seizing pink slips, not opportunities. But while the Great Recession wiped out billions in home equity and blew up companies by the score, it also freed up plenty of hard assets. In simple terms, you could buy a lot of expensive stuff for a song. And that’s just what Bethencourt and his pal, molecular biologist and fellow ...
14:33 < kanzure> ... DIYbio enthusiast, John Schloendorn, did.""
14:33 < kanzure> .title https://medium.com/@oreillyradar/dispatches-from-the-bleeding-edge-of-biotech-7913ebb58991
14:34 < yoleaux> Dispatches from the bleeding edge of biotech — Medium
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14:39 < archels> kanzure: could it potentially be the case that content has vanished from diyhpl.us or am I just doing it wrong
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14:50 < kanzure> archels: which content are you looking for?
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15:01 < archels> something about neuromorphic integrated circuits
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15:15 < kanzure> oh interesting, i don't actually remember that
15:15 < kanzure> more details pls?
15:16 < kanzure> format of content?
15:16 < kanzure> temporal coordinates?
15:17 < archels> maybe 2-3 months ago
15:17 < archels> I just signed up via the web and created a page
15:18 < kanzure> on the wiki?
15:19 < archels> yep
15:19 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/diyhpluswiki/commits/master
15:20 < archels> yeah so I didn't actually go through git (maybe I should have)
15:20 < kanzure> web interface is just another git interface
15:20 < kanzure> maybe i lost commits
15:21 < kanzure> jrayhawk: have any clever tricks for checking if i lost archels' commits? maybe i should just read through reflog in /srv/ikiwiki/ or something?
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15:33 < nmz787> paperbot: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2661257
15:34 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1145%2F2661229.2661257
15:37 < nmz787> they have it but it's a big one at 14mb http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Rendering_Volumetric_Haptic_Shapes_in_Mid-Air_using_Ultrasound.pdf
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15:38 < nmz787> "Weighted Tikhonov Regularization"
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16:24 < jrayhawk> yeah, git status, reflog, and git fsck
16:26 < kanzure> dangling commit 53730e797bfaed1d0b94100e9774c35e6a068296 but 76def5c21288cd594b97aa465b950023f114ef85 is in master and seems to be equivaent anyway
16:26 < kanzure> not seeing anything else, reflog is pretty blank (probably because i did a recent (a few months ago?) rebuildrepo)
16:34 < kanzure> archels: did you see yesterday backlog re: macrocircuits, neural circuits, non-microcircuit circuits in human brain and do you agree/disagree about their existence
16:36 < archels> I think right now it relates to whether you're willing to see much biological in deep learning
16:37 < archels> as to claims about cortical columns and the 'canonical cortical microcircuit', I'm not so sure
16:38 < kanzure> "Alternatively, "deep learning" has been characterized as "just a buzzword for",[5] or "largely a rebranding of", neural networks.[6]"
16:38 < archels> yeah
16:38 < archels> deep learning is pretty cool, but it's a lot closer to GOFAI than neuroscience
16:39 < kanzure> but but my question was about circuits
16:40 < archels> what's a circuit?
16:40 < kanzure> hmm, well i thought it was a widely accepted term in neuroscience but i strongly suspect it's not if you're unaware of it
16:41 < archels> it's so widely used as to have become meaningless
16:42 < kanzure> fiber tracts?
16:43 < archels> better, because that at least defines a scale of analysis
16:45 < archels> so, do I agree about the existence of fibre tracts? :)
16:45 < kanzure> yes
16:45 < kanzure> that is a good question
16:45 < kanzure> haha page 6 figure 4 http://arxiv.org/vc/arxiv/papers/1008/1008.5161v1.pdf "it's so simple!!!" (well, maybe it is)
16:48 < kanzure> although i have to admit the feature extraction salience vector stuff from deep learning is inticing
16:53 < archels> kanzure: I think your question basically pertains to the complete inability of contemporary neuroscience to integrate across levels of description
16:53 < archels> we can do large-scale mapping of the fibre bundles, we can poke single neurons and model them to some degree
16:53 < archels> inbetween there? mostly void
17:01 < kanzure> that is very interesting
17:01 < kanzure> that's a potential paper i think
17:01 < kanzure> refuting the prior literature about neural circuits
17:02 < archels> more a rant than a paper, perhaps :)
17:03 < kanzure> for example, 
17:03 < kanzure> page 2 figure 1 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/Cognitive%20consilience:%20Primate%20non-primary%20neuroanatomical%20circuits%20underlying%20cognition%20-%202011.pdf
17:03 < kanzure> these are not microcircuits afaik
17:05 < kanzure> oops re: http://arxiv.org/vc/arxiv/papers/1008/1008.5161v1.pdf i meant page 5 figure 4
17:06 < archels> yeah, that paper is symptomatic. we're just doing cartography, and badly at that
17:06 < ybit> .title
17:06 < ybit> oh yeah
17:06 < ybit> nm
17:06 < yoleaux> ybit: Sorry, that doesn't appear to be an HTML page.
17:06 < archels> (not to be down on Van Hout Solari and Stoner, this is just the state of the field)
17:07 < kanzure> archels: so there's no large-scale circuitry of the brain, possibly encoded by genetics? if so, then would you agree the same is true about brain regions...?
17:07 < archels> the title of their paper is ironic though; there isn't much consilience going on in this ballpark
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17:08 < archels> hold up--I wanted to say that large-scale circuitry is actually one end of the resolution scale where we're reasonbly certain of things
17:08 < archels> or at least we know what to expect in terms of what's real and what the limits of the technology (such as DWI) are
17:09 < kanzure> and when you say large-scale... what scale is this? :)
17:11 < kanzure> ah, there are two versions of that arxiv paper. page 6 figure 4 was right.
17:11 < archels> oh, like that paper you posted about ape/human comparative neuroanatomy of the frontal lobe
17:12 < kanzure> but... that paper was doing comparative neuroanatomy of some circuits.
17:12 < kanzure> heh
17:12 < archels> exactly, because we defined 'circuits' = 'fibre tracts' a little earlier
17:13 < archels> < archels> what's a circuit?
17:13 < archels> < kanzure> fiber tracts?
17:13 < archels> so that makes sense for this level of description
17:14 < kanzure> are there any good overviews of known fiber tracts?
17:14 < kanzure> or reviews
17:20 < archels> a lot of it is textbook material, probably
17:20 < archels> I have to sleep, ttyl
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17:30 < kanzure> i wonder what methods those gorilla trainers were using for teaching american sign language
17:30 < kanzure> presumably gorilla brains do not have brain regions that help with language/grammar to the extent those appear in human brains
17:31 < kanzure> so instead of expecting a gorilla to pick up on grammar rules you would have to account for the lack of "grammar rule inference" by teaching these rules very explicitly
17:31 < kanzure> and how you communicate specific knowledge to a gorilla is likely to be different from "give them a bunch of samples of correct use"
17:32 < kanzure> maybe they would be able to use the rules if they were aware of their importance
17:32 < kanzure> *aware of them
17:37 < bbrittain> paperbot: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/02687039608248419
17:37 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1080%2F02687039608248419
17:39 < bbrittain> I've developed a reputation for being able to get papers thanks to paperbot
17:39 < bbrittain> this is bad
17:40 < kanzure> why is that bad?
17:41 < kanzure> hah it is bad because you are manually handling requests :)
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18:07 < kanzure> from the gen9bio "competition": ""Start-up Track: open to operating, pre-commercialization stage, privately-owned companies actively engaged in research & development who have successfully raised a minimum of $5M in equity investment""
18:14 < bbrittain> yea, how many bp were they giving away? 500k?
18:16 < kanzure> "The Saddest Moment" (about byzantine fault tolerance) http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/people/mickens/thesaddestmoment.pdf
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20:19 < Qfwfq> This is amazing, I'm not sure why today's the first I heard of it http://arxiv.org/abs/1312.6082
20:20 < Qfwfq> .title http://arxiv.org/abs/1312.6082
20:20 < yoleaux> [1312.6082] Multi-digit Number Recognition from Street View Imagery using Deep Convolutional Neural Networks
20:22 < Qfwfq> Context: https://blog.torproject.org/blog/call-arms-helping-internet-services-accept-anonymous-users
20:23 < Qfwfq> Context: https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/en-us/articles/203306930-Does-CloudFlare-block-Tor-
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21:04 < kanzure> "Methods of identifying general intelligence in extremely slow software"
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