--- Day changed Tue Dec 09 2014 00:21 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:29 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:11 < superkuh> paperbot: http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/17620584/monopole-twist-revisited 01:17 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:23 < fenn> paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21691045 01:23 < paperbot> http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1159%2F000327318 01:32 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:35 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:38 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:42 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:05 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:29 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:37 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fljmfretrguqagnb] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:30 < fenn> it makes me so mad that wikipedia automatically deletes/downsizes "non free" images 03:30 < fenn> like this one for example, you can barely even make out the subject of the image (the tablet computer) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2001interview.png 03:31 < fenn> arthur clark is dead, stanley kubrik is dead, who does this policy benefit? 03:32 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-50-137-46-240.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:34 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-50-137-46-240.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:38 < archels> fenn: wow, how silly 03:41 < archels> hopefully the originals aren't permanently deleted 03:41 < fenn> this is especially a problem with video games as there is usually no screenshot and the cover of the box is the only image provided, and most of that is text 03:43 < fenn> it looks like the metadata associating the re-scaled and original file is lost with some bots, maintained with others, but the original file is inaccessible (to me at least) 03:44 < archels> someone interpreted point 3 of the Wikipedia fair use policy, which says that "The amount of copyrighted work used should be as little as possible", a tad too literally 03:45 < fenn> little-erally 03:49 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:49 < fenn> "Today it is nearly universally recognized by critics, film-makers, and audiences as one of the greatest and most influential films ever made." but we're only allowed to show a few 300 pixel thumbnails of it 03:50 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:01 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:01 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:08 -!- Baube [~Baube@64.229.103.26] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:09 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:10 -!- Baube [~Baube@64.229.103.26] has quit [Client Quit] 04:12 -!- Baube [~Baube@64.229.103.26] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:18 -!- cpopell [~cpopell@c-76-26-144-132.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 04:33 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:44 -!- NilsHItze [~hitze@80.190.141.50] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:44 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fljmfretrguqagnb] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 04:54 -!- weles [~mariusz@wsip-174-78-132-9.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:57 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:09 < fenn> "ARM2 (produced in 1986) had 30,000 transistors, while ARM6 grew only to 35,000." 05:13 < fenn> "Inspired by white papers on the Berkeley RISC project, Acorn considered designing its own processor. Sophie Wilson developed the instruction set, writing a simulation of the processor in BBC BASIC that ran on a BBC Micro with a second 6502 processor. The first ARM application was as a second processor for the BBC Micro, where it helped in developing simulation software to finish development of 05:13 < fenn> the support chips (VIDC, IOC, MEMC), and sped up the CAD software used in ARM2 development. Wilson subsequently rewrote BBC BASIC in ARM assembly language. The in-depth knowledge gained from designing the instruction set enabled the code to be very dense, making ARM BBC BASIC an extremely good test for any ARM emulator." 05:13 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:14 < fenn> talk about bootstrapping 05:16 -!- snuffeluffegus [~snuff@ps357888.dreamhost.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:37 < kanzure> don't they do that in college these days 05:37 < kanzure> they certainly didn't in mine but i always chalked that up to bad luck 05:38 < fenn> rewrite the simulator you use to design your architectures in the assembly code of the architecture that you're designing the system to run? 05:38 < fenn> i don't think that's a typical class exercise 05:38 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:45 < kanzure> "Academic research is funded through taxpayer money, and, as an academic, I can assure you that much of it has a much lower impact than many open source projects." 05:45 < kanzure> i'm sure jblake had a class like that 05:45 < fenn> a lot of academic research is open source (but not enough imho) 05:46 < kanzure> what is your current time? 05:46 < fenn> 8:45 am a while past lunch 05:47 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:47 < kanzure> i was looking for the second one 05:47 < kanzure> i don't understand those early fire theories 05:48 < kanzure> http://www.dichotomistic.com/mind_readings_fire.html "they just banged shit together until sparks flew" 05:48 < kanzure> (the page is much less useful than the portia one) 05:48 < fenn> lunch today was ~100g of chocolate 05:48 < fenn> so take these values with some uncertainty 05:49 < fenn> lightning starting grass fires is a pretty common occurrence 05:50 < kanzure> alright... but how often? 05:50 < fenn> often enough to remember it and do something useful the next time you run into it 05:50 < fenn> like "last time this happened we found a bunch of tasty burned critters afterward" 05:50 < kanzure> oh look time to run our food to the lightning strike site? come on.... 05:51 < fenn> no but it starts to be perceived as not just a complete disaster 05:52 < kanzure> maybe there were persistent wildfires everywhere 05:52 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:52 < fenn> yes those fires in california seem to last many months 05:52 < kanzure> could you cook over an open lava flow or is that too hot? 05:53 < fenn> i think that's just unlikely because there aren't many open lava flows 05:53 < kanzure> a fire river would be very useful 05:53 < kanzure> it is quite similar to fishing 05:53 < kanzure> except backwards 05:54 < fenn> you throw the fish into it and they disappear 05:54 < kanzure> you put the food on the stick 05:55 < fenn> "No potlid fractures on any of the stone tools until around 1.6 million years ago. Then after that, they occur consistently across many sites" 05:55 < fenn> what was happening 1.6 million years ago 05:56 < kanzure> i don't know, where's my climate almanac 05:57 < fenn> "if humans have been using fire for 1.6 million years, then surely we ought to have ... a fire-nurturing instinct wired into our brains?" people like hanging around a fire and staring at it even more than television 05:58 < kanzure> then why are people so bad at starting fires 05:58 < fenn> because it's a fire-nurturing instinct not a fire-starting instinct 05:58 < fenn> if lightning were starting the fires, humans wouldn't know how to start it 05:59 < fenn> the stone tool fractures were caused by thermal shock, not "banging" 06:00 < fenn> go find some rocks that make sparks when you bang them, good luck 06:00 < fenn> sheesh 06:00 < kanzure> "ancient africa was plagued by lightning strikes and charred delicious animals" 06:02 < fenn> the only common sparking rock i know of is iron pyrite, so these anthropologists better have some banged-up samples of iron pyrite if they want anyone to believe the rock-banging theory 06:03 < fenn> you can be damn sure a caveman would pick this up if he found it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2780M-pyrite1.jpg 06:08 < fenn> oh it oxidizes, so i guess it wouldn't be around after a million years 06:11 < fenn> "Not one person, that seemed to have an idea about it, ever showed this to me. It always seemed to be, "use two pieces of pyrite and birch tinder and strike the stones together. Then you will have fire!" Boy! That sounded easy. I can assure you, this was not the case. Starting a fire with stones takes much more understanding than by just striking two stones together." 06:20 < kanzure> "should i get a phd?" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8719614 06:20 < kanzure> "strong chance you’ll be miserable and it will end badly" 06:20 < kanzure> "To me, these sorts of articles are comparable to "join the army and see the world" propaganda. You never hear about legs blown off, brains addled, suicides, shrapnel, shellshock, and other likely outcomes." 06:29 < fenn> gotta wonder how many paleontologists will get started by playing minecraft http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3356665/figure/fig01/ 06:31 < fenn> "unambiguous evidence in the form of burned bone and ashed plant remains that burning events took place in Wonderwerk Cave during the early Acheulean occupation, approximately 1.0 Ma." 06:31 < kanzure> i still laugh at the name "paleoneurology" 06:32 < fenn> "At Gadeb 8e, magnetic properties of cobbles of welded tuff indicate that they were also burned, and at Koobi Fora FxJj 20—dated to 1.5 Ma—similarly discolored sediment patches were identified as having been burned based on thermoluminescence properties" 06:37 < fenn> "Large quantities of stone tools have been found at Koobi Fora both on the surface and in caches" would imply that money existed around that time as well (in the form of flint tools/cores) 06:41 < fenn> cool image https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Primate_skull_series_with_legend_cropped.png 06:48 < kanzure> gorilla skull http://d2ouvy59p0dg6k.cloudfront.net/img/skulls_apes_trade_wluiijf107760_348732.jpg 07:05 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:26 -!- pete4242 [~smuxi@boole.london.hackspace.org.uk] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:28 < kanzure> "Robots, not humans, discovered fire." 07:38 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gkzcmkcxkejpzlty] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:42 < kanzure> "It's a well known fact." 07:46 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:53 < kanzure> http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/12/09/james_watson_nobel_prize_medal_will_be_returned_by_russian_billionaire.html 07:55 < kanzure> hmm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alisher_Usmanov 08:05 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:06 < NilsHItze> Mhhhhh 08:06 < NilsHItze> Russian Billionaire == Transhumanist Wager says Hi 08:08 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:17 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clockwork_Origin#Plot 08:23 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:27 -!- NilsHItze [~hitze@80.190.141.50] has quit [Quit: NilsHItze] 08:31 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-17-250.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:35 < kanzure> hi eudoxia 08:35 < eudoxia> hi kanz 08:36 < Qfwfq> http://eprints.uwe.ac.uk/15848/6/ScarleXbox.pdf 08:45 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:09 < fenn> looks more like macaque skulls 09:10 < fenn> or maybe chimpanzee 09:10 < fenn> bonobo that's it 09:22 < kanzure> i wonder what sort of "avenge us" message we could leave for whoever discovers our remains after our robot overlords are tired of putting up with our crap 09:23 < fenn> well what would you say 09:23 < kanzure> probably "avenge us" 09:23 < fenn> "oops" 09:23 < kanzure> signed sincerely, verner avenger 09:24 < fenn> you could launch it into space like voyager 2 09:27 < fenn> "Xiaomi CEO, said that the company prices the phone almost at bill-of-material prices. To profit from the narrow margin, Xiaomi sells a model for up to 18 months instead of the short 6 months used by Samsung to profit from the fall in the costs of components that occurs over time." i think that's a good way of doing business 09:27 < kanzure> oops, i meant vernor avenger 09:27 < kanzure> vernor avinger 09:31 < kanzure> is the fall in costs of components over 18 months that significant? 09:31 < kanzure> i suppose the costs were picked prior to launch 09:31 < kanzure> maybe some 12 month lead time at minimum 09:34 < fenn> What is Xiaomi Smartphone Anti-Fake? 09:34 < fenn> This application was developed by Xiaomi to determine fakes of its products. 09:35 < kanzure> that's an arm race you just can't win 09:35 < kanzure> arms race 09:35 < kanzure> foot race? 09:35 < kanzure> .wik arms race 09:35 < yoleaux> "An arms race, in its original usage, is a competition between two or more parties to have the best armed forces. Each party competes to produce larger numbers of weapons, greater armies, or superior military technology in a technological escalation." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_race 09:35 < fenn> .wik red queen 09:35 < yoleaux> "Red Queen may refer to:" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_queen 09:36 < fenn> ffs 09:36 < kanzure> "technological escalation" would have been a better name 09:37 < fenn> "Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place." 09:37 < kanzure> i stole my free lunch from the red queen 09:38 < kanzure> nsh would be better at this 09:40 < fenn> the xiaomi bunny is not at all cute 09:41 < fenn> neither is the android android, oh well 09:42 < kanzure> now that disney owns the android copyright, i wonder if that will get stuck for a hundred years with mickey mouse 09:42 < fenn> i hope you're kidding 09:44 < fenn> Metal housing of Xiaomi Mi4 is made of stainless steel. 09:44 < fenn> The smartphone has a 5-inch ultra-thin Sharp screen with a resolution of 1080 х 1920 pixels 09:44 < kanzure> google had to license "android" from george lucas 09:44 < fenn> "droid" 09:45 < fenn> which was HTC i think 09:45 < kanzure> ah right 09:45 < fenn> i don't know why they were even granted that trademark since disney/lucas was never in the consumer electronics business 09:47 < fenn> a 1080p display would make for a decent wide-FOV VR HUD like oculus 09:48 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/AnonymousGlobo/status/541697065802559488 09:48 < yoleaux> 1.7GB of data from Russia Interior Ministry hacked and fully available. https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BxsQ108is142Q1dMcVNUc3J2U28 #Anonymous (@AnonymousGlobo) 09:49 < fenn> great now i just need to learn russian 09:51 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/AnonymousGlobo/status/541766476005670912 09:51 < yoleaux> RU Interior Ministry files were filtered. Total files snatched about 72GB http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&u=http://www.ex.ua/81884025&usg=ALkJrhjgGEcj9bZthJb3azxFjQTuIv9vnQ Download URLs: http://www.ex.ua/filelist/81884025.urls (@AnonymousGlobo, in reply to tw:541697065802559488) 09:51 < fenn> "We only ask #Russian analysis/info relating to #NSA #Regin" 09:55 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:56 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:57 < fenn> why does windows now show size of directories 09:57 < fenn> not* 09:57 < fenn> eta 2d 2h 09:58 * fenn decides he doesn't care 09:58 < kanzure> laptop died? 09:59 < kanzure> cannibalized by television set rip 10:04 < fenn> "Bureau of Special Technical Measures" sounds pretty sary 10:04 < fenn> scary* 10:11 -!- superkuh_ [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:12 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:12 -!- superkuh_ is now known as superkuh 10:15 < fenn> whose laptop died? 10:16 < kanzure> your eta seemed like a delivery countdown 10:16 < kanzure> and a complaint about having to use windows 10:17 < fenn> it would have been 2 days to download the 11GB file at ~50kB/s from ukraine 10:17 < fenn> several of the files were VNC screenshots of the loot, but the size column was empty 10:18 < kanzure> journalism at its finest 10:18 < kanzure> using a worldwide revolutionary file transport protocol called bittornado anyone can participate in inept journalism 10:18 < fenn> hacking a state bureau is not exactly journalism 10:18 < kanzure> not according to nsh's bail terms 10:19 < fenn> i mean, it would be cool if people saw hacking and distributing government secrets as an upstanding proper and moral thing to do 10:22 < fenn> does anyone here have a 4G data connection? what are actual downloads speeds like? 10:25 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:26 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-17-250.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:29 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-17-250.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:39 < fenn> hrm 10:39 < fenn> .wik samsung gear vr 10:39 < yoleaux> "Samsung Gear VR is a virtual reality device developed by Samsung Electronics in collaboration with Oculus VR. The Samsung Galaxy Note 4 is used as the screen and driving computer, mounted inside the Gear VR device. Like Google Cardboard, Gear VR has no display itself." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Gear_VR 10:39 < bkero> I have "4G" HSPA and "4G" LTE. 10:40 < bkero> HSPA is around 14/21Mbit down, LTE is around 40. 10:40 < fenn> bkero: what is latency like? 10:41 < bkero> 20-60ms 10:41 < fenn> does it actually stay that high or does it start limiting after a few seconds? 10:42 < fenn> er, the download rate i mean 10:42 < bkero> Testing right now it's 52.2/17.5 with 33ms ping 10:42 < bkero> Dunno, don't want to check. Sustaining that speed for a while would mean chewing through my 5gb data plan pretty quickly 10:43 < fenn> ok 10:44 < fenn> so you have basically 15 minutes of download time 10:44 < bkero> If that's how the math works 10:44 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:45 < fenn> or 1.5 minutes if that's "5 gigabits" 10:46 < fenn> if you have your own transmitter you get unlimited bandwidth :D 10:47 < bkero> I do. Unfortunately the base station options for LTE are limited 10:47 < bkero> I have a SDR that could theoretically do it, but...the software isn't very straightforward 10:47 < fenn> you have a LTE base station? 10:48 < bkero> I have a BladeRF SDR 10:48 < fenn> i see 10:48 < bkero> 4dBm 10:49 < fenn> have people figured out how to do phased array beamforming yet? 10:49 < fenn> actually that would be trivial with only one target, nevermind 10:49 < kanzure> "and additionally it has been noted that eating a high-fat meal can reduce the effects of amphetamine up to 55%" 10:53 < kanzure> "The study compared the effect of eating a high-fat breakfast on the absorption and distribution of a typical morning dose of each medication (36 mg of Concerta or 20 mg of Adderall) in 36 healthy adults. Breakfast consisted of eggs, buttered bread, bacon, hash-brown potatoes, and eight ounces of whole milk. Blood samples were taken 18 times over the ensuing 28-hour period. Subjects received either Concerta or Adderall following either ... 10:53 < kanzure> ... an overnight fast or 15 minutes after eating the high-fat breakfast." 10:53 < kanzure> do people really eat breakfasts like that every day 10:53 < kanzure> i need to look into this 10:54 < fenn> that would be an impressive breakfast 10:54 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gkzcmkcxkejpzlty] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 10:55 < fenn> i can see getting something like that at a breakfast diner 11:00 < fenn> bkero: i wonder if 2.5 milliwatts is enough 11:08 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ntnvvzyxvilwywew] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:10 < fenn> "commercial LTE devices are designed to transmit using 250 milliwatts of power" 11:10 < fenn> "The maximum power being considered for LTE portable devices is approximately 23 dBm (200 milliWatts)" 11:11 < fenn> apparently you're allowed to use up to 2000 milliwatts for a fixed point to point system 11:12 < fenn> anyway once you have generated the signal i suppose it doesn't matter how strong it is if you have an appropriate amplifier 11:13 < kanzure> hmm so if there's still such large amounts of demand for elephant tusk why not just raise elephants and sell ivory? 11:13 < kanzure> buying from poachers is only going to encourage poaching 11:14 < fenn> because poachers sell for next to nothing 11:14 < kanzure> really? 11:14 < kanzure> "tusks can weigh more than 250 pounds, with a pound of ivory fetching as much as $1,500 on the black market" 11:15 < kanzure> "When ivory became contraband, the supply got scarcer, but demand remained strong. In 1989, the international community passed a global ban on the trade in new ivory to stop the killing of elephants." 11:15 < kanzure> surely people can't be this fucking stupid 11:16 < kanzure> "There is no reliable way to tell pre-ban from post-ban ivory, or a real antique from a fake — in any country." 11:16 < kanzure> feed the elephants some trace chemical i'm sure it'll end up in the ivory 11:17 < kanzure> "However, they do continue to grow in length throughout the lifetime of the elephant" 11:18 < fenn> isn't carbon dating reliable enough? 11:18 < kanzure> food intake is 200 kg/day vegetation 11:18 < kanzure> "The cost to feed an elephant for one day is $30.00" 11:18 < kanzure> "regular veterinary care cost approximately $1,000 per elephant, per month." 11:19 < kanzure> "The growth rate of tusks is at approximately 15-18 centimeters per year" oh 11:19 < fenn> heh "The team of researchers' method involves using open-air nuclear bomb tests to reveal how long ago the ivory was taken from the animal." 11:19 < fenn> see i knew nuclear bombs were good for something 11:19 < eudoxia> that's also how we determined the crystalline lens of the eye doesn't get repaired/replaced during your life 11:20 < kanzure> hmm so ivory is priced in pounds but growth is measured in centimeters 11:20 < eudoxia> people born in the 50's/60's have radioactive isotopes in their eyes 11:20 < kanzure> you can have those replaced 11:20 < eudoxia> well yeah, through surgery 11:22 < kanzure> pig ivory could work pretty well 11:22 < fenn> kanzure lots of people have elephants in south asia, and you can remove the tusks without killing the animal 11:22 < fenn> the problem is that in africa they don't have any money and there are wild elephants running around with dollar signs on them 11:22 < kanzure> clearly you don't want to remove the entire tusk 11:23 < kanzure> poachers wont be able to sell ivory for any price if you can beat them at their own game 11:23 < kanzure> plus when they kill off all the elephants you're the only name in town 11:23 < fenn> great. ~ 11:23 < fenn> here's an idea, just kill all the elephants and you'll control the elephant supply 11:23 < fenn> better yet, kill everyone 11:23 < kanzure> "An Armenian collector paid almost 69,000 euros for another lot, which included two tusks around 230 centimetres (90 inches) long from an elephant killed in the Central African Republic in the 1960s. 11:24 < kanzure> $85k USD 11:24 < kanzure> $369/cm 11:24 < fenn> there are russian guys digging out old mammoth tusks in siberia with high pressure water 11:25 < fenn> from frozen bogs 11:25 < kanzure> so $12000/elephant-year of growth 11:25 < fenn> wow that's not bad 11:25 < kanzure> now just figure out how many elephants to break even... hrm. 11:26 < fenn> .c 30*365+12000 11:26 < yoleaux> 30×365+12000 = 22950 11:26 < kanzure> what are you calculating 11:26 < fenn> food plus veterinary costs 11:26 < kanzure> bulk food is cheaper in general 11:27 < fenn> it's already bulk, you're feeding an elephant 11:27 < kanzure> .c 30*365 11:27 < yoleaux> 30×365 = 10950 11:28 < fenn> "elephant tusks, get your radioactive elephant tusks while they're hot! elephant tusks..." 11:28 < kanzure> $1k/elephant-month vet costs sorta throws things off 11:28 < kanzure> plus initial cost of an elephant cement facility that doesn't totally suck (exercise loops?) 11:28 < kanzure> or elephant ranch 11:29 < fenn> cement facility? 11:29 < kanzure> sorry was thinking of terrible zoos 11:29 < fenn> are you going to have the elephants running a treadmill with giant hamster wheels? 11:29 -!- RedMEdic [~RedMedic@CPE-69-23-98-42.new.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:29 < fenn> er, something about an elephant-powered cement factory 11:30 * fenn nevermind 11:30 < kanzure> nah for some reason i was thinking elephant stables, but then you need to have exercise areas, so to save on space i was thinking circular hallways for running around in 11:30 < kanzure> but a ranch makes more sense 11:30 < fenn> i hate the heatsink on the bladeRF; it ruins the whole "blade" thing 11:31 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMIJzpkDVyI 11:31 < yoleaux> Elephant Stampede - YouTube 11:35 < kanzure> also you could figure out ivory tusk growth genes i'm sure 11:35 < fenn> also you could just make stupid fucking trinkets out of plastic and nobody could tell anyway 11:36 < kanzure> ivory probably mills differently 11:36 < kanzure> and they probably test it 11:36 < kanzure> the idea here was to avoid elephant extinction 11:37 < kanzure> as the demand for tusk grows or continues the more elephants you can afford to keep around 11:37 -!- weles [~mariusz@wsip-174-78-132-9.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:39 < fenn> where are you going to get all these elephants 11:39 < fenn> also, there are different kinds of elephants 11:41 < fenn> ok mammoth ivory is not so good: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mammoth_ivory_hg.jpg 11:41 < kanzure> that's strange 11:42 < eudoxia> it looks like a transversal cut of a snake that ate a tree 11:47 < fenn> ancient chinese QR code: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GhazanSeal1302LetterToBonifaceVIII.JPG 11:48 < eudoxia> more information-dense ancient chinese QR code: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Su_Hui_(poet)#Palindrome_Poem:_Xuanji_Tu 11:51 < fenn> woah, the red dot on hindu foreheads is made of mercury sulfide and/or lead tetroxide? 11:51 < kanzure> "the brain increases in both size and cell number throughout the octopus’s entire life" 11:52 < fenn> eudoxia: it looks like they were going for a fractal theme 11:54 < eudoxia> hmm wikipedia doesn't say what the colors indicate 11:54 < kanzure> huh, octopus brain is pretty different http://forestis.rsvs.ulaval.ca/REFERENCES_X/phylogeny.arizona.edu/tree/eukaryotes/animals/mollusca/cephalopoda/glossary/glossaryLichen/brainLichen/vampBrain.html 11:56 < kanzure> "Nonsomatotopic organization of the higher motor centers in octopus" http://octopus.huji.ac.il/site/articles/Zullo-2009.pdf 11:56 < kanzure> and papers that cited that http://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=11659215591019662636&as_sdt=5,44&sciodt=0,44&hl=en 12:02 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:18 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:21 -!- pete4242 [~smuxi@boole.london.hackspace.org.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27 < fenn> not the red dot, apparently it's a powder they put in the hair parting line of married women http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sindoor 12:27 < fenn> but still that is a lot of mercury to be dumping on your head! http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/Asia/India/East/West_Bengal/Howrah/photo1372340.htm 12:27 -!- Burnin8 [~Burn@pool-71-191-174-26.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:28 -!- Burnin8 [~Burn@pool-71-191-174-26.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:47 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:53 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-17-250.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:10 -!- Baube [~Baube@64.229.103.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:34 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:40 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:48 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:51 -!- snuffeluffegus [~snuff@ps357888.dreamhost.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:56 -!- saurik [saurik@carrier.saurik.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:56 -!- saurik [saurik@74.208.44.105] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:11 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 15:14 -!- nsh [~lol@2001:41d0:8:c2da::1337] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:15 -!- nsh [~lol@2001:41d0:8:c2da::1337] has quit [Changing host] 15:15 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:28 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:43 < Boscop> anyone here into meditation? 15:44 < Boscop> is it possible to anchor and recall any mental state (e.g. by becoming good at meditation)? 15:44 < Boscop> specifically drug induced states 15:44 < kanzure> you'll have more luck looking for meditation elsewhere 16:50 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-121-223-157-226.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:02 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-181-160.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:15 < kragen> meditation seems potentially pretty important 17:15 < kragen> but people don't talk about it much here 17:15 < kragen> not much about drugs either 17:16 < kragen> not even the ones you'd expect, like aniracetam or cryoprotectants 17:21 < eudoxia> it's not like you can pop ice blockers every day to ensure a good cryopreservation ;> 17:21 < kragen> :] 17:22 < kragen> fenn: it turns out that you can put quite a lot of inorganic mercury salts on your skin without absorbing a dangerous dose 17:26 -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29 < Boscop> kragen: in which channels do they talk more about meditation or drugs? 17:30 < Boscop> http://existentialcomics.com/comic/58 17:46 -!- cpopell [~cpopell@c-76-26-144-132.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:47 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-181-160.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:56 -!- Baube [~Baube@64.229.103.26] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:12 < kanzure> with apologies for admitting reddit exists, http://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/2lmo0l/ama_geoffrey_hinton 18:14 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:28 < kanzure> hmph 18:36 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:fcf1:3315:84f7:9f82] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:34 -!- cpopell [~cpopell@c-76-26-144-132.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 19:38 -!- cpopell [~cpopell@c-76-26-144-132.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:39 -!- cpopell [~cpopell@c-76-26-144-132.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:40 -!- snuffeluffegus [~snuff@ps357888.dreamhost.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:44 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ntnvvzyxvilwywew] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 19:59 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:10 < kanzure> "The neurological autonomy of the arms means the octopus has great difficulty learning about the detailed effects of its motions. The brain may issue a high-level command to the arms, but the nerve cords in the arms execute the details. There is no neurological path for the brain to receive proprioceptive feedback about just how its command was executed by the arms; the only way it knows just what motions were made is by observing the ... 20:10 < kanzure> ... arms visually, i.e. exteroception.[29]" 20:20 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqHuTElRwmo 20:20 < yoleaux> Octopus eggs hatching - YouTube 20:23 -!- Baube [~Baube@64.229.103.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:27 < kanzure> using your tentacles to touch dangerous objects seems a little not good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8cf7tPoN5o 20:46 < kanzure> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFCQltYMLQk&t=72s 20:54 < jrayhawk> T8cf7tPoN5o results in a 403 20:54 < jrayhawk> lFCQltYMLQk is pretty cool, though 21:12 -!- sheena2 [~home@S0106c8be196316d1.ok.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:14 -!- sheena [~home@S0106c8be196316d1.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:23 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:fcf1:3315:84f7:9f82] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:23 < kanzure> "The observation selection effect is that no matter how hard it is for human-level intelligence to evolve, 100% of evolved civilizations will find themselves originating from planets where it happened anyway." 21:23 < kanzure> yeah but does that really need to be said at all? 21:32 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:35 -!- prontotest [pronto@tasty.bagels.xxx] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:35 -!- prontotest [pronto@tasty.bagels.xxx] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 21:38 < kanzure> "Accurate estimation of the rate at which human-level intelligence evolves from a given starting point would involve the same need for Bayesian correction found in analysis of disasters that would have caused human extinction.[36]" 21:39 < kanzure> http://www.fhi.ox.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/ai-evolution-and-selection-effects.pdf 21:46 < kanzure> that is a good paper 21:51 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:51 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:25 < fenn> "it's not like you can pop ice blockers every day to ensure a good cryopreservation" <-- trehalose 22:32 < fenn> "100% of evolved civilizations" except for those that were seeded by genetic dispersion on the solar winds, and we don't yet know whether we are or are not one of these 22:38 < fenn> "specific types of viruses that inserted themselves in the human genomes millions of years ago have dramatically changed the gene regulatory network in human stem cells." these viruses may have originated elsewhere in the universe 22:39 < fenn> a fluff piece, but it shows the gain of function possible by retroviral mutation http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2012/02/14/mammals-made-by-viruses/ 22:41 < fenn> the probability of humans evolving from life is much much higher than the probability of life existing at all 23:24 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:24 -!- nsh [~lol@2001:41d0:8:c2da::1337] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:41 < delinquentme> anyone in here have pull with someone @ 3d robotics?