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03:36 < delinquentme> damn feelz goo
03:46 < delinquentme> DAMN FEELZ GOO
03:46 < delinquentme> #clean History
03:46 < delinquentme> nice bamf git commits
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06:29 < kanzure> blert
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07:30 < kanzure> hehe there is a typo in that human/chimp comparison figure ("assymetry")
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08:56 < kanzure_> .wik maternal somatic support after brain death
08:56 < yoleaux> "Maternal somatic support after brain death occurs when a brain dead patient is pregnant and her body is kept alive to deliver a fetus. It occurs very rarely internationally. Even among brain dead patients, in a U.S. study of 252 brain dead patients from 1990–96, only 5 (2.8%) cases involved pregnant women between 15 and 45 years of age." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maternal_somatic_support_after_brain_death
08:59 < yorick> the real question is why they only studied those ages
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09:12 < kanzure_> well, probably because they didn't want to study pregnant 10 year olds
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09:32 < kanzure> "Hydroponics is generally worse for beginners. Having something planted in an outside soil plot generally means that you have more leeway for making mistakes. You can be a little over or underwatered and things won't die. You can miss the nutrient mix a bit, and things will still grow even if they aren't optimal. You generally don't have to worry about micronutrients and the like until you've been growing in the same plot for some number ...
09:32 < kanzure> ... of years. ydroponics tends to be higher maintenance. You may have to water every day. You may have to feed and fertilize more often. You probably have to be more vigilant about pests and disease since you probably don't get help from the local environment."
09:32 < kanzure> "Hydroponics would seem to be more amenable to automation though. So much of it (including the plants) can be standardized and monitored."
09:33 < kanzure> at minimum, put those on conveyor belts and bring them to specialized workers (or other equipment) instead of transporting workers around to in-need places
09:35 < kanzure> also, why aren't there generic vegetables that have been bred for specificly-entirely-generic feed and totally-normal-or-expectable variations in nutrition (i don't understand the interest in keeping around plants that are difficult to grow?)
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10:12 < fenn> plants on conveyor belts is a cute idea, but then you're moving a lot of mass around for no particular reason. one worker robot can tend to a lot of plants, and only needs to move itself around
10:13 < fenn> you could pretend the plants are on a conveyor belt and just move the whole factory around
10:13 < fenn> and still save on moving mass
10:13 < fenn> this is pretty much what farmers do now
10:15 < fenn> underground tunnels full of fluorescent bulbs and nuclear power seems like a pretty important thing that should exist
10:23 < JayDugger> Welcome to the wonderful world of defense contracting, fenn.
10:26 < fenn> all i want for christmas...
10:31 < kanzure> farmers have the right idea about cattle herding (thank temple) but not about corn herding
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11:50 < fenn> a finn! quick quick get the gun!
11:51 < nmz787> yorick: it could be implying that was the age-range of pregnant women in the study
11:55 < fenn> wait nsh is finnish? how did i not know this
11:56 < BobaMa> nsh?
11:56 < nsh> all the best-kept secrets are headline subjects
11:59 < kanzure> that way nobody will believe them
12:00 < fenn> the truth is out there
12:00 < fenn> the x-files is a documentary
12:00 < fenn> so is dilbert
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12:05 < fenn> BobaMa: have you used EMC the CNC controller?
12:05 < BobaMa> fenn: what's the gun for? you want to hand them for us? or do you have bad experience of us Finns?
12:05 < BobaMa> fenn: not afaik
12:05 < fenn> it's because they're a rare breed and i'd like to have one stuffed and mounted on the wall of the lodge (not really)
12:05 < BobaMa> I have operated some CNC though
12:06 < BobaMa> not sure what's the EMC
12:06 < fenn> it's linux based controller software
12:07 < BobaMa> ah, no then. the ones I've used were made before linux was born
12:07 < fenn> i am interested in building concrete boats
12:10 < BobaMa> why? I'm currently working at a shipyard
12:11 < fenn> to sail off into the sunset of course
12:11 < fenn> why does anyone build a boat
12:12 < fenn> because i'm tired of schlepping my stuff around and moving from wooden box to wooden box
12:12 < BobaMa> seasteading?
12:12 < fenn> sort of
12:12 < kanzure> hmm http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8kMNB4yBvAo/U8yTmm3NeFI/AAAAAAAAD1c/0Mp8vfBqp7U/s1600/BM11.jpg
12:12 < fenn> whenever i think of seasteading now all i can come up with is a casino on a floating platform
12:13 < fenn> kanzure looks pretty practical to me
12:13 < BobaMa> I wish we were building some self-sufficient seasteading boats instead of luxury cruisers at the shipyard
12:13 < kanzure> luxury ships aren't self-sufficient?
12:14 < fenn> not at all
12:14 < BobaMa> no, they require like a billion dollars worth of oil a day
12:14 < fenn> at every port they take on vast quantities of consumables
12:14 < BobaMa> or a million at least
12:14 < kanzure> if a boat is taking on extra consumables, who cares?
12:14 < kanzure> that's a surplus
12:14 < fenn> it's not self-sufficient
12:14 < kanzure> surpluses are not self-sufficient?
12:14 < fenn> you've lost me
12:15 < fenn> positive trade imbalance != self-sufficient
12:15 < kanzure> if anything you should hate bad design
12:15 < kanzure> not "this vehicle is capable of supporting luxury, oh noes"
12:16 < kanzure> what's the point of wheels being on flimsy attachments
12:16 < fenn> at minimum i'd want something that is energy independent, capable of weathering a storm, and can catch fish
12:16 < kanzure> and if someone calls it luxurious...?
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12:16 < fenn> most people's concept of luxury is orthogonal to mine
12:17 < fenn> carpets? wooden furniture? i don't care at all
12:17 < fenn> the little dog will be used as bait
12:19 < fenn> the batmobile has an active suspension for crawling over piles of rubble
12:19 < fenn> i don't agree with the caster design at all; presumably that was so they could build it as a cheap toy
12:20 < fenn> if the "legs" already rotate why do you need to rotate again at the "wrist"
12:21 < fenn> also power transmission seems problematic with the caster swivel
12:21 < fenn> if big electric motors are in the wheel then you have a high unsprung mass
12:21 < BobaMa> there's some fiction books I've come across which have more or less seasteading / shoresteading. Daniel Haight: Flotilla + sequel Iron Mountain. then there's David Brin's Existence which also has some dolphin action (I've read 50% of the book)
12:21 < fenn> if it's being driven with a concentric drive shaft then your steering control is fighting against drive torque
12:22 < kanzure> "Intermediate sized industrial storage tanks, often found used, can be joined together to form much longer compartmentalized structures reinforced by their joins. They often have manways and pipe connectors that might easily mount a few windows and can readily have more added. Those designed to store toxic chemicals often feature a double-wall construction which can be useful for reserve buoyancy and to add insulation to minimize the big ...
12:22 < kanzure> ... problem of condensation in submerged areas. Such tanks are commonly sold used and can be found in steel, aluminum, or fiberglass and range between 8-12 feet in diameter--plenty of space for a modest home in vertical or horizontal configurations. However, just moving these things can cost thousands of dollars."
12:23 < fenn> i don't need "plenty of space for a home"
12:23 < fenn> that's land thinking
12:23 < kanzure> hmm weird eric hunting ignored the under-the-water aspect
12:23 < kanzure> i should have called him out on this
12:23 < kanzure> i asked him "Yo dawg what about submarines?" and his reply was about surface-dweller stuff
12:23 < fenn> is this on openmanufacturing?
12:24 < kanzure> no, although i sent fennfoot his email
12:25 < fenn> 8-12 feet diameter is not too bad i guess
12:27 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3ao5SCedIk
12:27 < yoleaux> The Mighty J58 - The SR-71's Secret Powerhouse - YouTube
12:31 < fenn> cool video
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12:38 < fenn> kanzure what batmobile was that
12:38 < kanzure> arkham knight
12:38 < kanzure> http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7AykgIIWdPM/maxresdefault.jpg
12:39 < kanzure> http://i.imgur.com/7833U7r.jpg
12:40 < fenn> hmm the wheels do turn, that's dumb
12:40 < kanzure> haha
12:40 < fenn> reminds me of some alex iglesias stuff
12:40 < kanzure> other sample http://cloud.attackofthefanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Batman-Arkham-Knight-Batmobile1.jpg
12:41 < fenn> er, http://flyingdebris.deviantart.com
12:41 < kanzure> "Mech time all the time"
12:41 < kanzure> stupi time travelers messing up my timeline
12:42 < fenn> you see how if the legs move you don't need the wheels to rotate in the same plane right?
12:42 < kanzure> he sure does like bipedal machines
12:42 < kanzure> what about it?
12:43 < fenn> just the way the gun was drawn looked like his style
12:45 < kanzure> "Homework assignment where we had to design something along the same lines as doom 3. So i decided to impale a zombie with a GAU-8 vulcan cannon."
12:45 < fenn> better design http://uratz-studios.deviantart.com/art/LEGO-Technic-Tumbler-168531859
12:47 < kanzure> lunch truck http://flyingdebris.deviantart.com/art/Unfolding-lunch-truck-unfolded-49713336
12:47 < fenn> wait it has a jet engine _and_ a 350 chevy?
12:47 < kanzure> "mad max assignment" http://flyingdebris.deviantart.com/art/Killer-Semi-48868824
12:49 < kanzure> i think this guy has access to my pile of sketches from school
12:49 < kanzure> if i see a flying tank i'll know
12:51 < fenn> shit i forgot my batkeys http://www.sideshowtoy.com/assets/products/901731-batmobile-tumbler/lg/901731-batmobile-tumbler-002.jpg
12:51 < fenn> nope locked on this side too http://www.sideshowtoy.com/assets/products/901731-batmobile-tumbler/lg/901731-batmobile-tumbler-003.jpg
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12:56 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO2_iUkojCY
12:56 < yoleaux> Official Batman: Arkham Knight -- Batmobile Battle Mode Gameplay - YouTube
12:58 < fenn> does batman have a titanium jaw implant
13:01 < fenn> such a destructive lifestyle
13:01 < fenn> batman never listens to his father
13:06 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/irc/titanium_jaw_implant.png
13:06 < kanzure> "I don't use guns. I'll never use a gun. Unless of course they're on my car."
13:06 < fenn> "dammit batmobile, what did i tell you"
13:10 < fenn> "The customized 3D-printed lower jaw was made out of titanium powder that was heated and fused together through a process known as laser melting. This method uses a high-powered laser that bound together the powdered metal layer by layer, and was coated with bio-ceramics that made the bone-substitute compatible with the body tissue."
13:10 < fenn> "bio ceramics" is probably just hydroxyapatite
13:12 < fenn> another view of the jaw implant http://www.supernews.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Screen-shot-2012-07-04-at-4.16.35-PM.png
13:20 < kanzure> i think i should write a coin selection algorithm today
13:21 < kanzure> like https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/33d5ee683085fe5cbb6fc6ea87d45c5f52882232/src/wallet.cpp#L1232
13:21 < fenn> i think i should select some coins today
13:22 < kanzure> fundrawtransaction will be useful once merged
13:22 < kanzure> but it doesn't support watchonly yet
13:22 < kanzure> i suppose i could implement watchonly support in the fundrawtransaction proposal... hrm.
13:25 < kanzure> i think the tradeoff is something like: avoid reimplmeenting coin selection if you do not want to write a few hundred test cases
13:25 < kanzure> compared to the cost of having a fork of bitcoind with some custom patches
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13:52 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1bxBmJAAJE
13:52 < yoleaux> Octopus learns to recognize symbols - YouTube
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14:31 < kanzure> page 25 has a comparison of human, zebra finch, cuttlefish and octopus brain http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/harnad/Temp/edelmandavid.pdf
14:31 < kanzure> these slides are from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2ELSNzlwAI 
14:32 < kanzure> page 28 is okay
14:34 < kanzure> page 38 is funny ("octopus neurophysiology: single-unit recording")
14:36 < kanzure> "Nearly all structures you find in mammalian brains you can find an equivalent structure in bird brains." yep
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14:54 < kanzure> lecture on cephalopod evolution http://andara.uqam.ca/Panopto/Content/Sessions/5d1d5536-a6b1-462b-835f-09f0c94bbc97/1c826ba7-d7f6-42a1-b3eb-9316674c6a5f-af62aed5-3dca-49e3-8c8a-6c9990ff16a1.mp4
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15:16 < kanzure> this video is pretty okay
15:22 < kanzure> "giant pacific octopus has tens of thousands of eggs, and basically only two get to adulthood because of predation"
15:24 < kanzure> i don't understand the background blending thing, their eyes are pointed the other way and even if they weren't the surface would be dark so how would they know to match the boundary coloration correctly?
15:28 < fenn> they're not looking straight down at the shadow
15:29 < kanzure> "look at the scene, choose where to hang out for a while, remember the boundaries and what sort of size you would have to squish into, and then plan some coloration based on my anticipated shape"?
15:30 < kanzure> mm^2 color control
15:30 < kanzure> 35 ms color switching
15:33 < kanzure> "They can put a stripe on this side of their body, and a zebra on the other side, which is like talking out of both sides of your mouth. I don't think they have a visual language. Their displays are fairly stereotypical and not creative. They do not comment on external state, only in their internal state. I think they don't have language because they don't have anything interesting to say."
15:33 < kanzure> "We know almost nothing about these animals."
15:33 < kanzure> *only on their internal state
15:35 < kanzure> abstract/comments for that video http://turingc.blogspot.ca/2012/07/jennifer-mather-evolutionary-pressures.html
15:37 < kanzure> "I find them in Bonaire, in the Caribbean, because the near shore is all marine park. And I find them by the garbage heaps of shells outside their homes."
15:38 < kanzure> "There's a paper on foraging strategies of one of the fruit-eating monkeys. They have to remember, like the octopuses, how to find their way ot to food and back to shelter. But they also have to remember what rain forest trees are fruiting or flowering at what time, and what cues tell them the fruit is ready...then how to get it and maybe how to compete with others for it. There's lots to learn and remember for primates, I suspect ...
15:38 < kanzure> ... therefore that the pressures for evolution of intelligence were dual."
15:38 < kanzure> hmm.
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15:39 < kanzure> i don't know if i buy that, lots of animals have to remember where food is
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16:11 < kanzure> http://montereybayaquarium.tumblr.com/post/17955182992/why-were-so-attached-to-the-giant-pacific
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16:22 < bbrittain> I can't decide if cephalopods are awesome, or the doom of humanity
16:22 < bbrittain> perfect example of non-human intelligence
16:23 < bbrittain> tool users, with no mamallian basis
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16:23 < bbrittain> they will rise from the deep cthulu style and vanquish humanity...
16:30 < kanzure> i think you can just stand far enough away from an octopus and it forgets about you
16:30 < kanzure> so you're safe.... for now
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16:47 < fenn> old/large squids are possibly intelligent too
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16:47 < kanzure> not sure what the hatching/yield problems are about
16:47 < kanzure> no predators in an aquarium
16:47 < kanzure> so what's the death about
16:48 < fenn> it's programmed to die
16:48 < kanzure> no the 10,000 eggs
16:48 < kanzure> only 2 survivors?
16:48 < fenn> sometimes this provides food for the babies
16:48 < fenn> oh, who knows. ocean creatures are sensitive to lot of mysterious things
16:49 < fenn> "The really hard part is feeding them, because we still don't know what they eat, and if we can crack that mystery, it will open up all kinds of doors to raising them,"
16:49 < fenn> "the offspring are so small they look like plankton lying on the bottom of the aquarium."
16:50 < kanzure> // remove signature if we used the signing only for the fee calculation
16:50 < kanzure> the "sign" parameter on CreateTransaction in wallet.cpp is.. not encouraging.
16:51 < kanzure> oh, they haven't figured out what baby octopus eats? hmm
16:51 < fenn> sign of what
16:51 < kanzure> no the other sign
16:52 < kanzure> "to sign or not sign"
16:52 < fenn> if you don't sign the transaction, how would anyone verify it?
16:52 < kanzure> CreateTransaction does not implicitly mean the transaction must be signed
16:53 < kanzure> createrawtransaction, for instance, uses CreateTransaction
16:53 < kanzure> and signrawtransaction is another available command
16:57 < kanzure> what's the right "grep for x near y" command
17:00 < fenn> grep y -a 10 -b 10 | grep x
17:01 < fenn> grep y -A 10 -B 10 | grep x
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17:49 < kanzure> "You can just go to http://mitm.it on the device. It's a 'magic domain' for the proxied host. See http://mitm.it/doc/certinstall/webapp.html "
17:49 < kanzure> (mitmproxy stuff)
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18:06 < fenn> accio mitmit
18:06 < fenn> need to use spell quotes
18:08 < fenn> ~deletrius prior incantato~
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18:16 < fenn> "Keeps Muggles away from wizarding places by causing the Muggles in question to forget what they were doing in the first place."
18:16 < fenn> i wonder how feasible this would be to implement with modern technology
18:17 < fenn> it's well known that flashes of bright light disrupt short term memory, but how to do it without being so obvious
18:17 < kanzure> see that's why the cia planted me here to stop you from doing anything productive
18:17 < fenn> oh look a puppy
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18:53 < kanzure> huh, why am i rebuilding things i had previously built
18:54 < kanzure> oh nevermind
18:54 < kanzure> i made changes relevant to these artifacts. right.
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