--- Day changed Sun Dec 21 2014
00:26 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-124-187-233-85.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:26 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-124-187-233-85.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:28 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@c-73-189-218-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:47 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@spnp133005.spnp.nus.edu.sg] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:48 -!- shubham__ [~shubhamgo@137.132.41.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:48 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-80-28-200.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:48 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-81-156-218.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:51 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@spnp133005.spnp.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
00:56 < superkuh> paperbot: http://www.cell.com/neuron/abstract/S0896-6273(14)00008-7
00:57 < superkuh> Oh. Nope. libgen finally stopped timing out.
01:17 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
01:24 < superkuh> http://www.genome.gov/images/content/cost_genome.jpg - reaching a floor?
01:37 < nmz787> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0896627314000087
01:59 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:54 -!- Njkro [b31fe3a9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.179.31.227.169] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:17 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:18 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
03:22 -!- Viper168_ is now known as Viper168
03:23 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rmxtidilcihsugxi] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:40 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-124-187-233-85.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
03:43 -!- shubham__ [~shubhamgo@137.132.41.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:44 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@137.132.41.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:46 -!- Njkro [b31fe3a9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.179.31.227.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
03:48 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@137.132.41.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
03:50 -!- saurik_ is now known as saurik
04:01 -!- FAMAS [~kvirc@182.48.84.40] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:13 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
04:14 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@nusnet-17-202.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:28 -!- FAMAS [~kvirc@182.48.84.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
04:30 -!- heimcomputer [~heimcompu@188.29.165.215.threembb.co.uk] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:31 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:59 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:11 -!- FAMAS [~kvirc@182.48.84.40] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:43 < kanzure> superkuh: hmm, i suspect that depends on their sampling methodology (are they including "hypothetical cost per genome" based on things like single molecule sequencing, or only things they can buy on the commercial market?).
05:53 < kanzure> "This is a collection of disassembled and commented source of parts of MS-DOS 1.0, which can be assembled back into (almost) identical binaries (using NASM)." https://github.com/mist64/msdos1
06:05  * heath waves gm
06:39 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@nusnet-17-202.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:47 -!- smeaaagle [~smeaaagle@2001:4802:7803:104:be76:4eff:fe20:1ed8] has quit [Excess Flood]
06:48 -!- smeaaagle [~smeaaagle@2001:4802:7803:104:be76:4eff:fe20:1ed8] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:14 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
07:18 -!- shubhamg_ [~shubhamgo@118.189.209.93] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:33 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:37 -!- shubhamg_ [~shubhamgo@118.189.209.93] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out]
07:38 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@118.189.209.93] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:43 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@118.189.209.93] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:43 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@118.189.209.93] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:44 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rmxtidilcihsugxi] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
08:00 -!- FAMAS [~kvirc@182.48.84.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:01 -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:07 -!- Boscop [me@unaffiliated/boscop] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:08 -!- pete4242 [~smuxi@boole.london.hackspace.org.uk] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:19 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:23 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@118.189.209.93] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:56 < kanzure> wallet.cpp:1621:21: error: return-statement with no value, in function returning ‘bool’
08:56 < kanzure> these are true words
09:09 -!- rayston [~rayston@ip68-106-242-42.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:15 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@118.189.209.93] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:19 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@118.189.209.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
09:26 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@118.189.209.93] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:28 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@118.189.209.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:29 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@118.189.209.93] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:32 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
09:33 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@118.189.209.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
09:41 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:44 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@118.189.209.93] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:48 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@118.189.209.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:49 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@118.189.209.93] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:02 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:04 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:28 < poppingtonic> "Warning: could not run smart terminal, falling back to dumb one"
10:29 < poppingtonic> well, then.
10:34 < fenn> surfing the net on a TAC
10:35 < kanzure> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5524
10:35 < kanzure> .title
10:35 < yoleaux> Implement watchonly for fundrawtransaction by kanzure · Pull Request #5524 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
10:38 -!- rk[wrk] is now known as rk[utNaboot]
10:44 -!- sheena [~home@173.181.61.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
10:52 -!- sheena [~home@173.181.61.137] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:18 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:20 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
11:20 -!- Viper168_ is now known as Viper168
11:26 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:ddae:4410:886d:d283] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:18 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@192.55.55.41] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:23 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:28 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@192.55.55.41] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
12:29 < kanzure> ""Take that book Applied Cryptography that's on your bookshelf and burn it. Do that as a commitment to really learning crypto. But absolutely don't read it. If you don't read it, you have nothing to unlearn, so you're much better off.""
12:31 -!- DumpsterD1ver_ [~loki@vpn166.sdf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
12:37 < fenn> what's wrong with that book in particular?
12:38 < fenn> people seem to have a grudge against schneier
12:38 < kanzure> bitcoin-wizards probably knows
12:41 -!- Vutral_ [ss@p5B2A43AA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
12:56 -!- HEx2 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:57 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:04 < kanzure> "Source: http://wiki.securityweekly.com/wiki/index.php/Episode292 time index 22:20. But the whole podcast is good."
13:04 < kanzure> there you go
13:06 < kanzure> "(case-sensitive, without the quotes; exactly 16 characters; I like "YELLOW SUBMARINE" because it's exactly 16 bytes long, and now you do too)."
13:06 < kanzure> from http://cryptopals.com/sets/1/challenges/7/
13:11 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-124-187-233-85.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:21 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-almigaleahgfawan] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:36 -!- Irssi: ##hplusroadmap: Total of 77 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 77 normal]
13:44 < kanzure> "Meta-Genetic Programming is the proposed meta learning technique of evolving a genetic programming system using genetic programming itself. It suggests that chromosomes, crossover, and mutation were themselves evolved, therefore like their real life counterparts should be allowed to change on their own rather than being determined by a human programmer. Meta-GP was formally proposed by Jürgen Schmidhuber in 1987.[8] Doug Lenat's ...
13:44 < kanzure> ... Eurisko is an earlier effort that may be the same technique."
13:50 < kanzure> "This allowed competing programs to embed damaging instructions in each other that caused errors (terminating the process that read it), "enslaved processes" (making an enemy program work for you), or even change strategies mid-game and heal themselves."
13:50 < kanzure> "Steen Rasmussen at Los Alamos National Laboratory took the idea from Core War one step further in his core world system by introducing a genetic algorithm that automatically wrote programs. However, Rasmussen did not observe the evolution of complex and stable programs. It turned out that the programming language in which core world programs were written was very brittle, and more often than not mutations would completely destroy the ...
13:50 < kanzure> ... functionality of a program."
13:50 < kanzure> "The first to solve the issue of program brittleness was Tom Ray with his Tierra system, which was similar to core world. Ray made some key changes to the programming language such that mutations were much less likely to destroy a program. With these modifications, he observed for the first time computer programs that did indeed evolve in a meaningful and complex way."
13:50 < kanzure> "Later, Chris Adami, Titus Brown, and Charles Ofria started developing their Avida system,[2] which was inspired by Tierra but again had some crucial differences. In Tierra, all programs lived in the same address space and could potentially overwrite or otherwise interfere with each other. In Avida, on the other hand, each program lives in its own address space. Because of this modification, experiments with Avida became much cleaner and ...
13:50 < kanzure> ... easier to interpret than those with Tierra."
13:51 < kanzure> "In 1996, Andy Pargellis created a Tierra-like system called Amoeba that evolved self-replication from a randomly seeded initial condition."
13:53 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0167278995002685
13:53 < kanzure> wut "The probability of generating a self-replicator increases with the number of operations in its sequence." that doesn't model reality very well
13:54 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/%0A%20The%20spontaneous%20generation%20of%20digital%20Life%0A%20.pdf
13:54 < kanzure> http://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=756572838428630835&as_sdt=5,44&sciodt=0,44&hl=en
13:56 < kanzure> this seems to have some interesting conclusions regarding whether or not "precursors to replication" can exist http://mitpress.mit.edu/sites/default/files/titles/alife/0262290758chap36.pdf
14:02 < poppingtonic> kanzure, actually it kinda does. increases in the complexity of certain kinds of formal systems also increase the likelihood of the systems becoming turing-complete.
14:03 < poppingtonic> granted, "self-replicator" does not necessarily imply "designed in a turing-complete language".
14:04 -!- heimcomputer [~heimcompu@188.29.165.215.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Quit: heimcomputer]
14:05 < kanzure> paperbot: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10015-004-0289-5
14:05 < kanzure> .title
14:05 < yoleaux> Universal constructor to build a Tierran machine structure - Springer
14:08 < fenn> the universal tierraning machine
14:23 < kanzure> "Another question is how many instructions are needed to execute a single replication cycle. More steps per cycle increase the probability that perturbations introduce errors in the replication process. A further point of consideration is ambiguity. The more different views on a program exist (see the frame-shift problems) the higher the dimensionality of the search space. Though in principle the number of possible solutions should ...
14:23 < kanzure> ... increase also, the numbe rof non-solutions increases much faster (curse of dimensionality, see the 2^(2^n) increase in search space and only ~ 2^n increase in useful functionality when evolving digital functions[50])."
14:33 < kanzure> "A consequence of this third finding is that no miraculous network-topology will help to create a replication system but only the sheer size of the search-space for finding a sufficiently small non-self-replication system, which in the current work and the currently available computer-power is around 22 unknown bits to be found. Transferring this result into biochemical systems require a systems setup such that physics and chemical ...
14:33 < kanzure> ... properties have to provide the vast majority of information for getting a replication running and only a tiny amount of flexibility in the information carrying modules can be tolerated."
14:35 < kanzure> Enzyme-like replication de novo in a micro-controller environment http://complex.upf.es/~josep/evolmic_replicator_3_uwe_tangen.pdf
14:35 < kanzure> this is a very strange paper
14:40 < kanzure> "Only very few bits can be encoded in the sequences everything else has to be provided by physics and chemistry. It is no hope that in nature the available parallelism is gigantic compared to what we have available in the computer: firstly, the explosion of the search-space outnumbers the available resources right from the beginning and secondly, the physical non-determinism fuziness and brownian motions consume many of the ...
14:40 < kanzure> ... parallelism-resources. This is a very important finding. Even though proponents of the RNA-world hypothesis, [20][26], believe that ribozymes can in principle solve the replicator-emergence problem, still a gap between the required fidelity of replication and the capabilities of ribozymes exist. This upper bound of perhaps 20 to 30 bits of the exploitable information search space requires that ribozymes needing more than a few ...
14:40 < kanzure> ... nucleotides will probably not be able to emerge spontaneously."
14:43 < kanzure> "Low perturbation by random sequences. It turned out that too many random sequences in the vicinity of a replication system are a problem for spontaneous emergence. In contrast to the protein-world of [25] labile replication systems are being subjected to perturbations by other not relate sequences. Trinks [51] proposed ice-cavities as a possible space of the origin of life which seems to be a plausible location because of the huge ...
14:43 < kanzure> ... parallelism, low energy intake and reliable environment conditions, this view is supported by [52] who argues that the phosphodiester backbone of RNA can be stabilized in ice."
14:44 < kanzure> http://bruckner.biomip.rub.de/bmcmyp/Data/BIOMIP/WWW/Uwe/projects/EvoCpu/index.html
14:45 < kanzure> http://bruckner.biomip.rub.de/bmcmyp/Data/BIOMIP/WWW/Uwe/projects/EvoCpu/examples.html "Emergence of replicators (size: 80MB) is a truly emergent simulation. No seeding apart from random initialization of micro-controllers is done. After some time, about 400 generations later, the first replicating enzyme-like programs occur and populate the 4096 available containers. Complex evolution events within the software of the 32768 ...
14:45 < kanzure> ... micro-controllers can be observed. If survival-of-the-fittest means annihilation of the non-fit then no fittest program sequences do occur, instead a wealth of properties and behaviors can be seen strongly reminiscent of what we see in nature."
15:09 -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:12 < kanzure> http://existentialcomics.com/comic/1 violation of no-philosophy, but an otherwise okay refutation at "absolute real identity", and not the worst possible way to refute to someone complaining about copies of individual brains
15:12 < kanzure> although the ending is boring
15:21 < fenn> omg how long does it take to unzip 3 million zip fies
15:22 < fenn> er, one zip file
15:26 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/uwe-tangen/software/EvoCpu_1.137.tar.gz
15:26 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/uwe-tangen/software/evocpu-1.137/
15:26 < delinquentme> can something be more idempotent? or is it strictly binary?
15:28 < kanzure> something can be less idempotent over a collection of different properties
15:30 < delinquentme> kk
15:32 < kanzure> nmz787: are you doing something on the server
15:32 < fenn> i am
15:32 < kanzure> what are you doing?
15:32 < fenn> unzipping something
15:32 < kanzure> what are you unzipping?
15:32 < fenn> metadata
15:33 < fenn> i didnt expect it to take so long; will renice it
15:34 < kanzure> this evocpu code isn't as bad as i was expecting
15:34 < kanzure> gpl license, no version control but academia handicap applies anyway
15:35 < kanzure> /*----- Lokale Varibalendeklarationen -----*/
15:35 < kanzure> ah here's why nobody has looked
15:38 < kanzure> did nobody really test whether or not a pool of random instructions could lead to self-replicating programs?
15:42 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
15:48 < kanzure> hehe he cites ellington (which is fair)
15:54 < kanzure> are you still doing things?
15:55 < kanzure> hm
15:58 < fenn> i think it's io-limited
16:00 < fenn> lots of little files (it's 30% done)
16:02 < fenn> maybe i should make a ramdisk
16:03 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-14-210.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:04 -!- pete4242 [~smuxi@boole.london.hackspace.org.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:06 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
16:18 < fenn> uh oh
16:18 < kanzure> hm?
16:19 -!- Qfwfq [~WashIrvin@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
16:20 < fenn> my command to make a loopback filesystem image froze
16:20 < kanzure> i should probably not be trying to do writes at the moment huh
16:21 < fenn> not if you expect them to make it to the disk
16:21 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/uwe-tangen/data/evocpu_20071205_scratch_evol/proc_y_g_20071205_1214_full/hash_0x00000000_001_20071209_210248_hash.png
16:23 < fenn> what do you do when kill -9 fails?
16:23 < catern> reboot
16:23 < fenn> noooooo
16:24 < archels> wait 15 minutes, sometimes it resolves itself
16:24 < archels> otherwise, say goodbye to your uptime
16:24 < kanzure> jrayhawk: ping
16:25  * fenn hides
16:25 -!- Qfwfq [~WashIrvin@58.182.38.58] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:25 -!- Qfwfq [~WashIrvin@58.182.38.58] has quit [Changing host]
16:25 -!- Qfwfq [~WashIrvin@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:28 < kanzure> i would laso like pid 6150 and 6151 dead
16:28 < kanzure> *also
16:28 < kanzure> yikes no writes are working at all?
16:29 < fenn> dont worry it will work itself out in 4 hours
16:32 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-14-210.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:32 < kanzure> python     6220            bryan   49u     IPv4          515250353       0t0        TCP IP:34242->edc-connection.ebscohost.com:http (CLOSE_WAIT)
16:33 < kanzure> that can't be good
16:33 -!- paperbot [~paperbot@unaffiliated/kanzure/bot/paperbot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:34 -!- paperbot [~paperbot@unaffiliated/kanzure/bot/paperbot] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:37 < fenn> are you just randomly killing processes
16:38 < catern> killall5
16:39 < fenn> /sbin/TOPSECRET/nuke-all-processes
16:42 < kanzure> well i ran iotop and that for some reason caused some of my processes to finish
16:43 < fenn> mine finished too
16:43 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:43 < catern> must have been entangled processes
16:44 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:44 < fenn> how did you run iotop btw; when i do i get
16:44 < fenn> Could not run iotop as some of the requirements are not met:
16:44 < fenn> - Linux >= 2.6.20 with - VM event counters (CONFIG_VM_EVENT_COUNTERS)
16:44 < kanzure> er.
16:44 < kanzure> "command not found"
16:44 < fenn> also i tried ionice just then but the process was gone
16:45 < kanzure> retracted; i don't know what i was using
16:45 < kanzure> and i closed that session
16:45 < kanzure> netstat?
16:45 < fenn> check .bash_history?
16:45 < kanzure> nah my history doesn't work that way
16:45 -!- rayston [~rayston@ip68-106-242-42.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
16:46 < poppingtonic> you're trying out evocpu?
16:46 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:47 < kanzure> just looking at the files
16:48 < jrayhawk> sometimes you can kill off processes stuck in D-state with a umount -f
16:48 < jrayhawk> this is common with e.g. inaccessible NFS mounts
16:48 < jrayhawk> or network FUSE stuff
16:48 < jrayhawk> fusermount -u
16:49 < fenn> this was just the regular UFS filesystem
16:49 < jrayhawk> that's an odd choice
16:49 < fenn> writing ~3million files and directories
16:49 < fenn> don't ask me, i didn't pick UFS
16:50 < fenn> /dev/hdv1 on / type ufs
16:50 < kanzure> are these the torrent files
16:50 < jrayhawk> oh, you're on gnusha
16:50 < fenn> a small slice of torrent metadata
16:51 < catern> who picked UFS?
16:51 < jrayhawk> UFS is a lie
16:51 < catern> why did they pick UFS
16:51 < kanzure> poppingtonic: i am trying to decide how surprised i should be about these results
16:52 < fenn> now i am afraid to delete the mess i made
16:53 < kanzure> why?
16:53 < jrayhawk> most likely unzip didn't sync until the end, which means a pile of other stuff has to wait for all that delayed allocation to happen
16:54 < jrayhawk> because POSIX sucks and doesn't have userspace barriers
16:55 < fenn> jrayhawk: does it make sense to create a loopback filesystem to write these files to?
16:55 < jrayhawk> no?
16:55 < fenn> i don't really understand what just happened
16:56 < fenn> i did unzip 8xxxxxx.zip > /dev/null and it took forever and then nothing could write and then it magically fixed itself when we started poking around
16:57 < jrayhawk> 16:53 < jrayhawk> most likely unzip didn't sync until the end, which means a pile of other stuff has to wait for all that delayed allocation to happen
16:57 < fenn> it never finished
16:57 < poppingtonic> i just unzipped it. is ./configure complaining about 'config.sub'?
16:58 < jrayhawk> jrayhawk@gnusha:~$ pgrep unzip
16:58 < jrayhawk> jrayhawk@gnusha:~$
16:58 < poppingtonic> rather, untarred.
16:58 < jrayhawk> generally you can watch this in action with e.g. watch -n .2 cat /proc/meminfo
16:59 < jrayhawk> specifically Dirty: and Writeback:
16:59 < jrayhawk> or something may have synced in the middle of unzip
16:59 < jrayhawk> like vim
17:00 < jrayhawk> vim is annoyingly syncy
17:01 < kanzure> poppingtonic: i haven't ran this yet
17:01 < kanzure> poppingtonic: i suspect that running it will not be interesting, because the output files look quite cryptic
17:01 < kanzure> like http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/uwe-tangen/data/evocpu_20071205_scratch_evol/proc_y_g_20071205_1214_full/hash_0x00000000_001_20071209_210248_hash.png
17:02 < kanzure> and http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/uwe-tangen/data/evocpu_20071205_scratch_evol/evocpu_y_f_b_psm_2.out
17:02 < jrayhawk> also we're running short on space on gnusha, which probably makes allocation very slow
17:02 < kanzure> ah right, i should clean stuff up
17:02 < jrayhawk> kanzure: did you want to do some cleanup, or should i just throw more disk at it
17:02 < kanzure> i'll do some cleanup now, but more disk would be nice too?
17:03 < jrayhawk> done
17:03 < fenn> deleting a million files now...
17:03 < kanzure> man we have lots of irc logs
17:04 < jrayhawk> why are you deleting them
17:04 < jrayhawk> why did you unzip them if you don't actually want them
17:04 < poppingtonic> you could just get cheap space on s3...
17:04 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/uwe-tangen/data/evocpu_20071205_scratch_evol/proc_y_g_20071205_1214_frame_1364/first_evolved_replicator.txt
17:05 < fenn> i couldnt get zip to extract individual files (of which i wanted to look at a few near the end) and i also thought about recompressing them in a different format to match some other archives
17:05 < fenn> because apparently one big glob like this causes problems :\
17:06 < poppingtonic> yeah the output doesn't make much sense at first glance.
17:06 < kanzure> that last link is just poorly annotated opcodes
17:07 < jrayhawk> jrayhawk@gnusha:/home/fenn/tpb$ unzip 8xxxxxx.zip  8xxxxxx-master/85xxxxx/859xxxx/8599995/details.csv -d ~/
17:07 < kanzure> and i think the images are coloration picked by hash of the program?
17:07 < jrayhawk> Archive:  8xxxxxx.zip
17:07 < jrayhawk> cc0184e6af4920632d2a6715e1ee70f68235d7a0 inflating: /home/jrayhawk/8xxxxxx-master/85xxxxx/859xxxx/8599995/details.csv
17:07 < jrayhawk> jrayhawk@gnusha:/home/fenn/tpb$
17:08 < kanzure> pwnt
17:10 < kanzure> this looks pretty bad to me: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/uwe-tangen/data/evocpu_20071205_scratch_evol/proc_y_g_20071205_1214_full/proc_y_g_20071205_1214_full.eps
17:10 < jrayhawk> while the info-zip command line is clearly architected by asylum dwellers, it at least does work as documented
17:10 < kanzure> why would programs starting with "end" become more common?
17:12 < jrayhawk> also info-zip does its own glob matching, so you'll generally want to escape globs when using it
17:12 < jrayhawk> because, again, asylum dwellers
17:12 < kanzure> butt dwellers
17:13 < jrayhawk> i like to think the command line of GNU false is more butt dwelling
17:14 < jrayhawk> to its credit, --help and --version still return 1
17:17 < fenn> jrayhawk: was that the last file in the zip archive? i can't seem to unzip any other files
17:17 < fenn> there are a lot of numbers missing from the sequence
17:18 < fenn> and how did you know which file existed
17:26 < kanzure> poppingtonic: http://web.archive.org/web/20061124154156/http://complexsystems.lri.fr/FinalReview/FILES/PDF/p85.pdf
17:27 < kanzure> around page 6 is "Preliminary evolutionary results"
17:28 < kanzure> apparently the system usually gets stuck making programs that have counters
17:31 < poppingtonic> checking...
17:34 < poppingtonic> "The micro-controller shown in Figure 2 is a late derivate of the sim-
17:34 < poppingtonic> ple micro-controller [33] provided by Xilinx, the commercial leader in recongurable logic
17:34 < poppingtonic> worldwide.
17:34 < poppingtonic> " uhhhh...
17:35 < kanzure> page 13 has one of the a better annotated self-replicator he fished out of the simulator
17:36 < kanzure> yeah i am not sure why an fpga was being used
17:38 < poppingtonic> the table on page 7 is rather unreadable..
17:39 < poppingtonic> s/table/graph.
17:39 < poppingtonic> the x-axis
17:42 < poppingtonic> http://bruckner.biomip.rub.de/bmcmyp/Data/BIOMIP/WWW/Uwe/projects/EvoCpu/instructions_a.html
17:44 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-almigaleahgfawan] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
17:47 < jrayhawk> fenn: unzip -l
18:10 < kanzure> "The only solution to this coding-dilemma is to assume that the micro-controllers somehow do have physical contact when attached and that one is sliding along the other during the copy process. This sliding, well known in protein-chemistry, makes complex counter arithmetic superfluous. In the current model sliding is realized with an auto-increment feature. After reading (LOAD) a value from a foreign program the read-counter is ...
18:10 < kanzure> ... incremented automatically, the same holds for write-operations (STORE). "
18:10 < kanzure> http://bruckner.biomip.rub.de/bmcmyp/Data/BIOMIP/WWW/Uwe/projects/EvoCpu/recognition.html
18:11 < kanzure> "How many and which instructions are constituting the micro-controllers can be considered as an arbitrary choice. Also, the maximum length of programs, the maximum number of visible neighbors, the communication interfaces - is a feature of the program."
18:11 < kanzure> "What constraints the number of choices considerably, is the requirement that the system has to be able to find a replication system and ways of its maintenance. On the other hand, ``physics'' can be made so simple that no evolution and emergence at all is needed to create replicating entities. In between these two extremes a suitable implementation of the physical environment should be realized. The question is, how many unknown bits in ...
18:11 < kanzure> ... the evolving programs can be tolerated by the dynamics of the system to still allow the emergence of replicators. The number of bits is measured as the difference between a viable evolved replication program and the provided parts of software in the micro-controllers at the onset."
18:15 < kanzure> http://bruckner.biomip.rub.de/bmcmyp/Data/BIOMIP/WWW/Uwe/projects/EvoCpu/modeling_physics.html
18:19 < kanzure> "However, when replication emerged, the evolving programs revealed that many codes with a length of only one instruction utilized most of the CPU-time (see above on the minimum template length). Especially when these programs consisted of single Store-instruction, neighboring machines could be overwritten with the same value independent of what useful functionality had evolved before. This sort of denial of service or vandalism in the ...
18:19 < kanzure> ... system made the emergence of replicative systems impossible. With a minimum program length of two instructions this problem could be mitigated. It is biologically plausible to require a certain minimum complexity or length of sequences before emergent replication can occur."
18:42 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-124-187-233-85.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
18:42 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-124-187-233-85.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:47 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:48 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
18:57 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
19:19 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:22 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
19:25 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:27 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-124-187-233-85.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:44 < kanzure> http://www.infionline.net/~wtnewton/corewar/evol/
19:53 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
19:56 -!- rk[utNaboot] is now known as rk[abc]
20:07 -!- Vutral [wjDCex8WPc@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:17 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-124-187-233-85.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:31 -!- sheena [~home@173.181.61.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20:37 -!- Vutral [wjDCex8WPc@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20:39 < kanzure> so the lesson is.... random collections of "rop gadgets" turn into self-replication.
20:48 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@CPE-124-187-233-85.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:48 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-124-187-233-85.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:57 < kanzure> "A fully novel artificial replicator is a reasonable near-term goal. A NASA study recently placed the complexity of a clanking replicator at approximately that of Intel's Pentium 4 CPU.[7] That is, the technology is achievable with a relatively small engineering group in a reasonable commercial time-scale at a reasonable cost."
20:57 < kanzure> wait what does complexity have to do with cost in this context
20:58 < kanzure> oh right, toth-fejel http://www.niac.usra.edu/files/studies/final_report/883Toth-Fejel.pdf
21:01 < kanzure> "Consider a Pentium IV computer chip, which costs between $130 and $1200 each, in which the wires and transistors that constitute the devices with the desired functionality are less than 5 microns thick. That means that the part of the Pentium that actually does the work costs up to $320 million per pound, with a complexity metric per pound of 57 trillion. But this is nothing compared to Eigler’s 35 atoms that spelled out IBM, back in ...
21:01 < kanzure> ... 1990 – the worlds smallest advertisement. If advanced Scanning Tunneling Probes were free, and if Eigler was paid minimum wage, that ad would have cost about a quadrillion quadrillion dollars per pound with a complexity metric of over 10^24 per pound."
21:01 < kanzure> that does not seem to be the same claim
21:04 -!- Boscop_ [me@188.126.91.49] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:06 -!- Boscop [me@unaffiliated/boscop] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
21:07 < kanzure> http://booksc.org/ claims 20 million papers
21:08 < kanzure> http://booksc.org/angels.php#investors
21:11 -!- dvorkbjel [~viskestel@li607-220.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
21:11 -!- ivan` [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
21:12 -!- dvorkbjel [~viskestel@li607-220.members.linode.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:13 -!- ivan` [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:13 -!- Vutral [7HRxCbi18p@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:21 < kanzure> i am trying to decide if conway/game of life counts as "self-replication from random initial conditions"
21:21 < kanzure> "On May 18, 2010, Andrew J. Wade announced a self-constructing pattern dubbed Gemini which creates a copy of itself while destroying its parent.[23][24] This pattern replicates in 34 million generations, and uses an instruction tape made of gliders which oscillate between two stable configurations made of Chapman-Greene construction arms. These, in turn, create new copies of the pattern, and destroy the previous copy. Gemini is also a ...
21:21 < kanzure> ... spaceship, and is in fact the first spaceship constructed in the Game of Life which is neither orthogonal nor purely diagonal (these are called knightships).[25][26]"
21:21 < kanzure> "On November 23, 2013, Dave Greene built the first replicator in Conway's Game of Life, that creates a complete copy of itself, including the instruction tape.[27]"
21:21 < kanzure> ah okay, these don't seem to develop from random initial conditions
21:28 < maaku> kanzure: have you read freitas' self-replicating moon base report?
21:29 < maaku> http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.107.6462
21:29 < kanzure> naturally
21:30 < kanzure> also AASM and KSRM
21:30 < kanzure> you know i sent him an email the other day
21:30 < kanzure> he was telling me this story about how he lost all his bitcoin on mtgox :)
21:31 < maaku> :(
21:32 < maaku> well theres hope for that it seems
21:33 < maaku> well i'm long on bitcoin in order to self-fund a merkle-freitas nanofactory, so all is not lost
21:34 < bkero> maaku: If you're looking for a short bitcoin gain, do btx-xpy. Xpy has a set $20 price floor that will be introduced in 2 days
21:35 < bkero> and is currently trading around .028btc
21:35 < bkero> I'm day-trading it atm
21:36 < maaku> bkero: i'm not a day trader (and find $20/btc unlikely, but what do I know)
21:36 < kanzure> haha
21:36 < maaku> i'm more of the buy-and-hold
21:36 < kanzure> that is funny
21:36 < kanzure> that interaction that just happened, i mean
21:36 < bkero> maaku: no, $20/xpy
21:36 < bkero> paycoin.com
21:37 < kanzure> day trading is a good way to get addicted to a random number generator
21:37 < bkero> They made a deal with Visa for convenient fiat conversion.
21:37 < maaku> ah ok. still no thanks but your suggestion makes more sense now :P
21:37 < bkero> kanzure: Nah, it's a good way to make algorithms that analyze and react to a random number generator
21:38 < kanzure> maaku: i think your plan (self-fund) is a good one
21:38 < kanzure> maaku: that's basically been my approach for anything worthwhile
21:38 < maaku> yeah i've learned never to play the market. I've lost hundreds of bitcoins that way :\
21:38 < maaku> i'd be set to self-fund already if I hadn't done that
21:39  * kanzure sleeps
21:40 < bkero> I basically aet up a bot to 'sell everything at 0.034' and 'buy at 0.28', and earned about 33% in the last two days.
21:40 < bkero> 0.028*
21:40 < bkero> kanzure: g'nite
21:42 < maaku> bkero: word of caution, that's how I lost my shirt
21:42 < maaku> doubled my bitcoin on the swings in a volatile period, then hit my sell order on an upswing ... and never went down
21:42 < maaku> ($8 per coin I think)
21:43 < bkero> maaku: me too, I also have limit orders to buy at 0.04 and send me an email
21:44 < maaku> Made enough to support myself for a few months, could have been a few million dollars if I held instead :\
21:44 < bkero> yeah
21:45 < bkero> I did the same, mined with a 6gpu miner back in 2009
21:45 < kanzure> can i pay you to stop day trading?
21:45 < kanzure> also, how much would you want
21:46 < bkero> haha
21:46 < bkero> I made abour $220 today.
21:46 < bkero> You could pay me to stop :)
21:47 < bkero> I'm going to stop anyway once the $20 price floor is in effect
21:48 < kanzure> $220.. don't you make like $1600/day writing code?
21:48 < bkero> I make $84k/year slinging code
21:49 < kanzure> have you considered asking for more money
21:49 < bkero> Which results in about $4200/mo after taxes
21:49 < kanzure> good programmers are going for at least double that right now
21:49 < bkero> Have, got stonewalled
21:49 < kanzure> (at least)
21:49 < kanzure> interesting
21:49 < bkero> Am going to do it again
21:49 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@CPE-124-187-233-85.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:49 < kanzure> right, well, you have actual experience
21:49 < bkero> last time was a manager ago
21:49 < kanzure> unexperienced jerkfaces are getting $90k out of school with no time behind the keyboard
21:50 < bkero> I have 10 years in coding and open source project experience, a BS in CS and aBusiness
21:50 < kanzure> that's worth way more than double :)
21:50 < bkero> and half a lifetime in computers
21:50 < bkero> You want to pay me the double? :3
21:51 < kanzure> not at the moment
21:51 < jrayhawk> though bkero works for locals, which makes hitting 180k much harder
21:51 < kanzure> hmm.
21:51 < kanzure> would a card-board cutout of your employer work?
21:51 < bkero> jrayhawk: Moz isn't local
21:53 < bkero> I work for the world at large
21:53 < jrayhawk> and yet they pay you portland wages instead of SV wages
21:53 < bkero> I also live in the world at large
21:54 < kanzure> my view is why should i get paid local wages for living in a crap place?
21:54 < jrayhawk> but i guess they're a foundation anyway
21:54 < bkero> Nope
21:54 < kanzure> irs disagrees
21:54 < jrayhawk> oh, huh
21:54 < jrayhawk> i am just retarded, then
21:54 < bkero> I work for Mozilla Corporation
21:54 < bkero> Not Foundation
21:54 < bkero> Moco vs Mofo
21:54 < jrayhawk> haha
21:54 < bkero> yup
21:55 < kanzure> irs was also complaining about foundation
22:01 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:ddae:4410:886d:d283] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:03 -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@118.189.209.93] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:03 < kanzure> maybe i should write an answer to http://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/6861/has-any-large-scale-origin-of-life-simulation-experiment-been-done
22:05 < kanzure> isn't this a working proof of concept of abiogenesis?
22:07 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-124-187-233-85.lns2.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:36 -!- Qfwfq [~WashIrvin@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
22:41 -!- Qfwfq [~WashIrvin@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:55 -!- DumpsterD1ver_ [~loki@vpn166.sdf.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:17 -!- sheena [~home@173.181.61.137] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:21 -!- Vutral [7HRxCbi18p@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
23:26 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:29 -!- Qfwfq [~WashIrvin@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
23:34 -!- Qfwfq [~WashIrvin@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:52 -!- Qfwfq [~WashIrvin@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
23:58 -!- Qfwfq [~WashIrvin@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap