--- Log opened Thu Jan 22 00:00:31 2015
00:01 < archels_> .title https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_Q9EZE1oLIqjUZo3oqLAOAyHOs2MPZN4
00:01 < yoleaux> DGAB Cryonics Symposium 2014 - YouTube
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02:33 < voidfire> hi
02:33 < voidfire> hi paperbot
02:33 < voidfire> eh :( its not here
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05:20 < poppingtonic> .wa pluto's orbit
05:20 < yoleaux> Pluto: orbital properties
05:21 < poppingtonic> .wa pluto's orbital period
05:21 < yoleaux> Pluto: orbital period: 247.92065 Julian years; Unit conversions: 7.8237807×10⁹ seconds; 90553.017 days; 247.92574 average Gregorian years
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05:46 < kanzure> "Most of the stars in the Milky Way are not visible to us because they are dim due to being on the other side of the galactic disk and our view is blocked by clouds of dust and bright stars in the bulge and disk in between."
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05:47 < kanzure> "I am not altogether certain that ET would want to launch a fire and forget probe to virally copy himself across the cosmos. That would make ET an r-strategist and that doesn't fit the profile of intelligent organisms which are usually K-strategists. After all, if there is any chance that you might outlive your host star, why would you spawn potential competitors all over your galactic neighborhood that would make it difficult to ...
05:47 < kanzure> ... relocate when the time came?"
05:47 < kanzure> .wik barnard 68
05:47 < yoleaux> "Barnard 68 is a molecular cloud, dark absorption nebula or Bok globule, towards the southern constellation Ophiuchus and well within our own galaxy at a distance of about 500 light-years, so close that not a single star can be seen between it and the Sun." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnard_68
05:51 < archels_> when I move solar system, I want there to be cappuccino where I land
06:03 < poppingtonic> what's an r-strategist? what about  a k-strategist?
06:03 < eudoxia> is that r/k selection theory?
06:03 < poppingtonic> http://www.bio.miami.edu/tom/courses/bil160/bil160goods/16_rKselection.html
06:04 < eudoxia> i'd guess an r-strategist is an animal that implements r-selection and has many short-lived offspring
06:04 < poppingtonic> right. mammals vs. dandelions. to totally butcher the concept with a probably inappropriate analogy.
06:10 < poppingtonic> i think it might actually be appropriate.
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06:47 < kanzure> "I once thought I was in love, but then I realized my species reproduces with a cloud of spores."
06:55 < JayDugger> Love is in the air!
06:55 < archels_> love is just game theory expressing itself neurochemically
06:56 < JayDugger> 'game theory expressing itself neurochemically" is in the air!
06:57 < Douhet> game theory seems to really be in touch with its emotions
06:59 < poppingtonic> game theory sucks at giving gifts from the heart.
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08:43 < kanzure> "ET may or may not want to make copies of himself but we were talking about thermodynamic efficiency and the cost of building a Von Neumann probe would be trivial for an advanced civilization. It would be like one of us purchasing a candy bar. The cost of launching such a probe to the nearest star at 25,000 miles an hour, something we can do today, would cost even less. If somebody did that just once then in just 50 million years, a tiny ...
08:43 < kanzure> ... fraction of the life of the universe, the Galaxy would look vastly different from what it looks like today  and ET could harvest astronomical (and I mean that word literally) amounts of energy. Your explanation of why we don't see that engineered Galaxy is that out of the billions of individuals in millions of civilizations no one, absolutely no one, bothered to buy that candy bar."
08:43 < kanzure> "Be honest now, does this excuse put forward to explain away the lack of large scale engineering really strike you as credible? If you knew for a fact that ET existed but had never seen the night sky is this really what you would predict the sky would look like?  I don't see an elephant in my living room so I can reasonably conclude there is not an elephant in my living room. Sometimes a absence of evidence is evidence of absence. "
08:43 < kanzure> but how do you know you are not observing large-scale engineering?
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09:05 < andytoshi> maybe interesting to many of us http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/22/your_anonymous_code_contributions_probably_arent_boffins/
09:05 < andytoshi> they analyze things like code modularity and claim “our syntactic feature set is impervious to off-the-shelf code obfuscators, which only change layout and some lexical features”
09:06 < kanzure> they need to be introduced to https://github.com/zertosh/beautify-with-words
09:06 < kanzure> i implemented something similar to thi, but not as a library
09:07 < kanzure> mostly because funny
09:07 < kanzure> *this
09:07 < andytoshi> that's hilarious
09:08 < kanzure> replacing variable names in obfuscated js with food or sex
09:09 < kanzure> what i would worry baout is copying other people's styles
09:09 < kanzure> i definitely know how to pretend to be at least two or three people that have very unique styles
09:09 < kanzure> well anyway, i can see those sorts of assumptions being problematic
09:09 < nsh> pap--- COME BACK PAPERBOT
09:10 < nsh> can anyone read: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/nn506832w
09:10 < nsh> via:
09:10 < nsh> .title http://betabeat.com/2015/01/hack-proof-smart-keyboard-learns-how-you-type-wont-work-for-anyone-else/
09:10 < yoleaux> New Smart Keyboard Recognizes Typing to Keep Computer Secure | Betabeat
09:10 < kanzure> .title http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/nn506832w
09:10 < yoleaux> An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
09:11 < kanzure> nope i don't have that
09:12 < kanzure> "Furthermore, the IKB can effectively harness typing motions for electricity to charge commercial electronics at arbitrary typing speeds greater than 100 characters per min. Given the above features, the IKB can be potentially applied not only to self-powered electronics"
09:12 < kanzure> typing4humanity
09:12 < kanzure> "if he types any sloewr than 200 wpm the entire planet will explodes"
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09:16 < archels_> speaking of keyboards, I ordered this recently  http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Solar-Keyboard-K750/dp/B004MF11MU
09:16 < archels_> should be waiting for me in a box tomorrow
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09:41 < nmz787_i> damn ebay seller is telling me they can't find my shipping info for my laser etcher... asking if they should resend or refund... maybe I'll end up getting two
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09:50 < nmz787_i> nsh: I can read it
09:50 < nmz787_i> nsh: but pdfparanoia isn't live on the web for use
09:50 < nmz787_i> and I'm paranoid
09:51 < chris_99> what laser thing did you go for?
09:53 < nsh> it's not hat important nmz787
09:53 < nmz787_i> chris_99: can you see this http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemVersion&item=261591526091&view=all&tid=1546725977016
09:53 < nsh> just wondered how much 'science' there was in their keystroke attribution thing
09:53 < chris_99> nah 'This purchased item information is no longer available.' alas
09:54 < nmz787_i> damn the price dropped by $20 http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIY-Mini-Laser-200-250mW-Engraving-Machine-Carving-Logo-Picture-Marking-Printer-/201228233547?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eda232b4b
09:54 < kanzure> 250 mW what are you going to engrave into, sliced cheese?
09:54 < nmz787_i> photoresist
09:54 < nmz787_i> exposure
09:55 < nmz787_i> it's more than enough
09:55 < chris_99> intriuging, not seen one like that
09:55 < chris_99> before
09:55 < nmz787_i> it uses opensource hardware
09:55 < nmz787_i> or says it does
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10:23 < kanzure> upverter sent me spam about https://forum.upverter.com/
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10:24 < p42___> Has Eugen been located yet?
10:30 < kanzure> he's alive
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11:20 < p42___> but for how much longer?
11:21 < kanzure> he has the same deal as dread pirate roberts
11:23 < p42___> the feds got him!?
11:23 < kanzure> no i mean the same deal as hte real dread pirate roberts
11:23 < p42___> heh
11:24 < ParahSailin> what was he up to
11:24 < ParahSailin> allegedly
11:24 < p42___> DRUGS
11:24 < kanzure> eugen leitl is not captured
11:24 < ParahSailin> natures hugs?
11:24 < kanzure> dread pirate roberts is notable because of his deal with the devil (immortality)
11:24 < kanzure> eleitl has the same deal
11:25 < p42___> I think that was Faust.
11:27  * p42___ plans to capture and harness eleitl
11:34 < nmz787_i1> pcb images http://www.eurocircuits.com/blog/171-PCB-PIXture-launched
11:36 < kanzure> .title
11:36 < yoleaux> Blog - PCB PIXture launched
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11:52 < genehacker> hey kanzure, didn't we have someone doing drug design stuff here?
11:54 < kanzure> a few people doing molecular dynamics (VESP) stuff
11:55 < genehacker> for drugs?
11:55 < genehacker> and do you mean VASP?
11:55 < kanzure> whoops, yes i do mean VASP
11:55 < kanzure> the VASP person i am thinking of mostly is doing stuff about metal transition series stuff
11:55 < kanzure> yeah we might not have any drug designers
11:56 < kanzure> we should get one
11:56 < genehacker> darn
11:56 < genehacker> I think I want to design some drugs
11:56 < nmz787_i1> me too
11:56 < nmz787_i1> I've been interested in it for a decade at least
11:56 < genehacker> give me a design problem
11:56 < nmz787_i1> I was looking into yeast to setup a serotoning receptor reporter system
11:56 < nmz787_i1> serotonin
11:57 < nmz787_i1> so you could throw molecules at it and learn if they had any effect
11:57 < kanzure> genehacker: mimic or bind ot some of these proteins http://diyhpl.us/wiki/genetic-modifications/
11:57 < nmz787_i1> (serotonergic effect)
11:58 < kanzure> genehacker: also, there are various proteins that would be useful drugs
11:58 < genehacker> err, I want something with defined binding pocket
11:58 < kanzure> enzymatic conversion between blood types http://2014.igem.org/Team:Tuebingen
11:59 < kanzure> here's some ideas (but these are cellular, so keep that in mind) http://diyhpl.us/wiki/dna/projects/
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11:59 < genehacker> I don't really care about making real drugs
12:00 < genehacker> I just want a toy drug design problem so I can apply my approach to making drugs and get a chemistry paper
12:00 < kanzure> how about something that binds to dna
12:00 < genehacker> I need something with a pharmocophore
12:01 < kanzure> aromas?
12:01 < kanzure> various pheromones are well known
12:01 < kanzure> like moth sex pheromone
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12:03 < genehacker> basically something that says put hydrophobic here, put this group here, etc
12:05 < kanzure> you could try to repeat (and improve on) an earlier result in drug design
12:07 < ryankarason> i have been studying drug design, maybe i can work toward fitting your 'bill'
12:07 < ryankarason> hehe
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12:14 < kanzure> genehacker: you could also do neurotransmitter/neuroreceptor ligand binding things.
12:14 < genehacker> hey I'm not trying to make those sorts of 'drugs'
12:15 < kanzure> perhaps not, but it's a good toy problem
12:16 < Douhet> genehacker, can you make a drug that makes a tree grow faster?
12:16 < genehacker> sure, give me a pharmocophore
12:16 < genehacker> and by sure I mean maybe
12:17 < kanzure> how about an antimicrobial
12:17 < kanzure> like some of these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibiotics#Status_of_new_antibiotics_development
12:21 < Douhet> hmmm
12:21 < Douhet> genehacker, exactly what information/detail is in said pharmocophore
12:24 < Douhet> elevated cytokinin levels would increase three growth but pharmocophore would describe... either molecules that sense cytokinin levels or produce them?
12:25 < genehacker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacophore
12:25 < kanzure> .wik
12:25 < yoleaux> Search for an article on Wikipedia
12:25 < kanzure> .wik pharmacophore
12:25 < yoleaux> "A pharmacophore is an abstract description of molecular features which are necessary for molecular recognition of a ligand by a biological macromolecule. The IUPAC defines a pharmacophore to be "an ensemble of steric and electronic features that is necessary to ensure the optimal supramolecular interactions with a specific biological  …" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacophore
12:25 < genehacker> drug design is like making a key, you are trying to find a molecule that fits into another molecule
12:26 < genehacker> a pharmocophore is like a description of what shape the key should be
12:26 < kanzure> antimicrobials seems like a good option then
12:26 < kanzure> receptors tell you the shape (roughly)
12:26 < tastybuds> Or a microbe booster
12:27 < tastybuds> Hi
12:27 < genehacker> roughly is typically not enough from what I here
12:29 < kanzure> genehacker: what's the best result that is similar to what you want, that people previously figured out
12:29 < genehacker> I think I'll do some HIV receptor or something
12:31 < ryankarason> quantifying the relationships between fungi and plants might be a good start for "make[ing] a drug that makes a tree grow faster"
12:32 < ryankarason> anyone here done any work on making "myco-composites" ?
12:33 < nmz787_i1> i've read up on them
12:34 < nmz787_i1> there were some guys from RPI doing than when I started at RIT
12:36 < ryankarason> i find it /really/ hard to find papers on them. so i plan to start doing expirements myself and start documenting.
12:37 < nmz787_i1> there's also the book 'mycelium running' which is probably the closest thing to a bible on neat myco stuff
12:40 < Douhet> hm, so to answer genehacker's requirement I need to find descriptions of histidine kinases CRE1/AHK4, AHK2, and AHK3. Out of my league
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12:45 < nmz787_i1> 'Here's another cool way to think about just how small 14nm is. Your hair grows about 4nm per SECOND!!'
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12:46 < Douhet> nmz787_i1, on average?
12:46 < Douhet> or during a growth phase
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12:58 < nmz787_i1> Douhet: no idea, random internet person being quoted
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13:44 < kanzure> maybe that's total hair growth
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13:50 < nmz787_i> kanzure: know anything? "If anybody has been involved with a successful MoinMoin --> MediaWiki conversion, (or MoinMoin --> anything else) please let me know how it was done. "
13:52 < nmz787_i> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/wxpython-users/3xUqch1qwhg
14:01 < kanzure> with great suffering
14:03 < ryankarason> nmz787_i: aye. i have mycellium running, but only read about 100 pages of it thus far. need to finish it sometime…
14:18 < heath> https://github.com/glamp/bashplotlib
14:18 < heath> "plotting in the terminal"
14:19 < heath> can't recall if i've linked before or if someone else did
14:19 < heath> it isn't dependent on node.js unlike the last plotting lib i linked to
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14:26 < kanzure> cc dpk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2lB_dpW2_o
14:26 < dpk> .title
14:26 < yoleaux> Let's Play: Type:Rider - Wer hat's erfunden? - Folge 8 - YouTube
14:26 < dpk> ty
14:33 < kanzure> whoops wrong channel
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14:45 < nmz787_i> would it be innaccurate to describe node.js as the Python interpreter of the javascript language?
14:45 < chris_99> isn't node.js more of a framework though, rather than an interpretter
14:46 < nmz787_i> LOL @ http://i.imgur.com/ocWDwcU.jpg
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14:50 < chris_99> i was looking at another laser cutter that guys solds
14:50 < chris_99> sells for £99
14:50 < chris_99> postage is £340
14:50 < nmz787_i> hahahah
14:50 < chris_99> *sells
14:50 < nmz787_i> yeah there are some that are like $30 with $100 shipping
14:51 < nmz787_i> I paid $120 flat
14:51 < chris_99> mmm
14:51 < nmz787_i> but I guess I ordered like a month ago :/
14:51 < kanzure> nodejs uses v8 to interpret and execute javascript
14:51 < kanzure> nodejs is a bundle of default bindings to various system libraries, essentially
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14:55 < nmz787_i> it seems wrong to call that plotting lib bashplot, when it uses python
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16:43 < nmz787_i> lego car
16:43 < nmz787_i> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTXqQXraWwA#t=65
16:43 < yoleaux> Raul Oaida: Inventing Inspiration, One Piece at a Time - YouTube
16:43 < nmz787_i> (also intel ad)
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17:58 < kanzure> hmm
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18:13 < kanzure> http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/science/2015/01/15/instead-zooming-mit-scientists-blow-brain-cells/ahqpkctFFKJsER5xcNEQXO/story.html
18:13 < kanzure> "But instead of spawning killer ants or a 50-foot giantess, the researchers have found a controlled way to cause a tissue sample swell to roughly four and a half times its size -- enough to make features of brain cells or cancer cells discernible under conventional microscopes."
18:14 < kanzure> "“One of our lab’s strategies is to do the opposite of what everyone else seems to be doing,” said MIT neuroscientist Edward Boyden. “One of the ideas we were kicking around was if you make a sample big enough, could you take a picture of viruses or something else really small with your cell phone? We’re nowhere near that, but it’s the kind of thinking we’re exploring now.”"
18:14 < kanzure> .title http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2015/01/14/science.1260088
18:14 < yoleaux> Expansion microscopy
18:14 < kanzure> "The new technique, called “expansion microscopy” can’t yet reach the level of fine-scale resolution of electron microscopes or the super-resolution microscopes that won the Nobel last year. But it may offer an inexpensive way for people to examine fine cellular structures at a detailed level using off-the-shelf ingredients.
18:15 < kanzure> "Researchers first attach glowing tags to the particular molecules they are interested in seeing -- for example, they might choose receptors found on the surface of a particular kind of cell. Next, they add the building blocks of a polymer that is more commonly found in baby diapers, used to absorb moisture. A substance that Boyden compares to meat tenderizer is used to strip away molecules that could constrain the tissue from expanding. ...
18:15 < kanzure> ... Last, they add water, which is absorbed by the polymer and swells up. The swollen tissues can then be examined under microscopes commonly found in research facilities. In the paper, the researchers meticulously checked to make sure that the expansion occurred evenly in each direction and found that it did -- within 1 percent to 4 percent."
18:15 < kanzure> "His team will publish a website explaining exactly how to perform the technique, in the hope that it will be widely adopted by scientists. The team is also applying for a patent on the technology, in case it can be further developed for medical applications."
18:15 < kanzure> "Two years ago Karl Deisseroth, a neuroscientist at Stanford University who was Boyden’s postdoctoral adviser, developed a powerful technique called CLARITY that turns brains transparent using a similar process. Deisseroth said in an e-mail that the researchers had noted then that the process enlarged the brain tissue moderately, which was a problem they needed to correct. They added an additional step to shrink it back to normal size."
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18:32 < justanotheruser> Should I print circuits with a laser printer, or some other better method?
18:32 < kanzure> .wa surface area of earth ocean
18:32 < yoleaux> oceans: area: Summary: total: 3.409×10⁸ km²; largest: 1.556×10⁸ km² (Pacific Ocean); smallest: 1.41×10⁷ km² (Arctic Ocean); Ranked values: |: visual: ratios: 1: Pacific Ocean: | 11.03: 1; 2: Atlantic Ocean: | 5.844: 0.5297; 3: Indian Ocean: | 4.862: 0.4407; 4: Southern Ocean: | 1.442: 0.1307; 5: Arctic Ocean: | 1: 0.09064
18:34 < kanzure> .wa (3.409 * 10^8 km^2) / (35 km^2)
18:34 < yoleaux> (3.409×10⁸ km² (square kilometers))/(35 km² (square kilometers)): 9.74×10⁶
18:44 < kanzure> "I think the main point of conflict over the debate in this thread arises from people considering two different phenomenon. John Clark is making the important point that the giant lack of obvious large-scale engineering is STRONG EVIDENCE in favor of there being no civilizations in our galaxy that have the capacity for large-scale engineering. In the last few emails I have counted >10 nice, creative alternative hypotheses for why we ...
18:44 < kanzure> ... don't see some specific type of this evidence, and these are very helpful to clarify where the null hypothesis might be wrong. However, it's important to make this distinction, that where our priors strongly suggest that large-scale engineering would be visible as large-scale engineering, alternative hypotheses need to be extraordinarily powerful and explanatory to beat out the null hypothesis. I am glad we are generating all these ...
18:44 < kanzure> ... other thoughts, but it should be noted that the obvious leader is that there exist no such civilizations. It may help our cumulative understanding to keep this in mind, consider all the evidence that there is no such civilization, and if someone has a hypothesis that they think is strong enough to be in the top 2 or 3 (of course others are helpful to mention to, but with the caveat that they're improbable), they note the predictive ...
18:44 < kanzure> ... power of that and why it can explain many of the phenomenon we see."
18:44 < kanzure> well how about "it's all been interpreted as natural phenomena and astrophysics"?
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20:41 < kanzure> dread pirate roberts opsec stuff https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8929906
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21:24 < kanzure> http://citpsite.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/oldsite-htdocs/pub/coldboot.pdf
21:24 < kanzure> "We also confirmed that decay rates vary dramatically with temperature. We obtained surface temperatures of approximately −50C with a simple cooling technique: discharging inverted cans of “canned air” duster spray directly onto the chips. At these temperatures, we typically found that fewer than 1% of bits decayed even after 10 minutes without power. To test the limits of this effect, we submerged DRAM modules in liquid nitrogen ...
21:24 < kanzure> ... (ca. −196C) and saw decay of only 0.17% after 60 minutes out of the computer."
21:25 < kanzure> "To prevent cold boot attacks you can store the key in a CPU register instead of memory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRESOR "
21:25 < kanzure> "Ulbricht's Samsung 700Z laptop used DDR3 RAM. These guys couldn't reproduce the "cold boot"/"RAM freeze" attack using DDR3 RAM: http://www1.cs.fau.de/filepool/projects/coldboot/fares_coldboot.pdf "
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21:53 < delinquentme> Readily available hosue hold items which are near atomically flat?
21:54 < kanzure> hair
21:55 < kanzure> fly hair
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22:16 < nmz787> kanzure: python brl-cad isn't working for an rcc
22:16 < nmz787> what were you saying to do to debug the crash?
22:17 < nmz787> hmm
22:23 < nmz787> well, anyway I was stupid and not checking the geometry tree list in mged :P
22:23 < nmz787> it is working
22:23 < nmz787> :)
22:24 < nmz787> it does look like the primitive args aren't identical to what mged says
22:25 < nmz787> in general, what should I do to start debugging... I am currently searching the error string 'Segmentation fault (core dumped)
22:25 < nmz787> '
22:25 < nmz787> and also 'python swig'
22:26 < nmz787> debug
22:29 < nmz787> looks to RMS's example
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22:37 < nmz787> here's what gdb shows after apt-get installing python-dbg: http://paste.pound-python.org/show/Uc2G7gr04G9Ytke4WveQ/
22:43 < pasky> oh, no paperbot :(
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23:13 < nmz787> whatcha need?
23:13 < nmz787> kanzure: here is the bt full http://paste.pound-python.org/show/gmUKVKnhmDlOWzkWUY5E/
23:13 < nmz787> got it using this https://blog.cryptomilk.org/2010/12/23/gdb-backtrace-to-file/
23:13 < nmz787> .title
23:13 < yoleaux> gdb backtrace to file • Andreas Schneider
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23:27 < nmz787> delinquentme: http://www.scientificamerican.com/slideshow/diy-graphene-how-to-make-carbon-layers-with-sticky-tape/
23:27 < nmz787> .tell delinquentme http://www.scientificamerican.com/slideshow/diy-graphene-how-to-make-carbon-layers-with-sticky-tape/
23:27 < yoleaux> nmz787: I'll pass your message to delinquentme.
23:29 < nmz787> .tell delinquentme http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphene#Adhesive_tape
23:29 < yoleaux> nmz787: I'll pass your message to delinquentme.
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--- Log closed Fri Jan 23 00:00:32 2015