--- Log opened Fri Jan 23 00:00:32 2015
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05:20 < tastybuds> Hi everyone
05:23 < archels> hello
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05:55 < kanzure> olleh
05:56 < kanzure> you should show backtraces to brlcad people, not me
06:01 < tastybuds> What!?
06:07 < kanzure> impossible!
06:25 < tastybuds> Uhrrr wot
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06:33 < kanzure> tastybuds: http://gnusha.org/logs/2015-01-22.log
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06:35 < tastybuds> Aha
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06:46 < archels> can anyone grab http://iopscience.iop.org/0967-3334/21/1/301/ ?
06:50 < kanzure> .title
06:50 < yoleaux> A comparison of modified Howland circuits as current generators with current mirror type circuits - Abstract - Physiological Measurement - IOPscience
06:50 < kanzure> http://iopscience.iop.org/0967-3334/21/1/301/pdf/0967-3334_21_1_301.pdf
06:51 < archels> ok, I think I'm doing this wrong
06:51 < archels> first of all--thanks, that link works
06:51 < archels> I tried to access this via Google, Google Scholar, and via the library repositories of two different universities
06:51 < archels> and they kept redirecting me to the payment page
06:52 < archels> so not sure where exactly I went wrong
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07:06 < kanzure> fwiw that link does not work for me
07:06 < kanzure> your mileage clearly varies here
07:07 < kanzure> http://aleph.se/andart2/megascale/just-how-efficient-can-a-jupiter-brain-be/
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07:11 < tastybuds> Do you think that the current economic and political system is keeping innovation back?
07:11 < tastybuds> I think it does, with the cyclical crisis and all
07:11 < tastybuds> Also proprietary knowledge isn't helping
07:11 < kanzure> why do you ask?
07:12 < tastybuds> Just my thoughts
07:12 < kanzure> huh?
07:12 < tastybuds> I wonder if anyone thought about it
07:12 < kanzure> there must be a reason for asking
07:12 < eudoxia> kanzure: i was surprised when i read his original paper to find that a Jupiter brain would only have a 2km deep "crust" of processors, surrounding a vaster "mante" of interconnects and cooling systems
07:12 < eudoxia> mantle*
07:12 < kanzure> eudoxia: what were you expecting?
07:13 < kanzure> tastybuds: it is very easy to blame politics and economics for many problems, even when this is not a productive thing to do
07:13 < tastybuds> I agree kanzure
07:13 < kanzure> tastybuds: even if they are the source of those sorts of problems, it is a poor excuse
07:13 < eudoxia> kanzure: i don't know, since i'd never thought about it deeply. i guess if someone had said "1/10th of the radius can be used for computation" i would have thought that to be reasonable.
07:14 < tastybuds> Good point, kanzure
07:14 < kanzure> hmm, i thought the majority of the volume would be used for computation and heat piping. you're saying the internal core is completely reserved for cooling/pipes?
07:16 < tastybuds> However social institutions have to keep up with technologic growth, else we risk a new dark ages. So my suggestion is that alternative politics make part of this h+ movement.  Especially concerning copyright laws.
07:16 < eudoxia> kanzure: that's what I understood from "daily life among the jupiter brains"
07:17 < kanzure> tastybuds: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/declaration
07:17 < eudoxia> "...we get a ratio between connection and node volume as ~2200, i.e. a very thin layer (1350 meters) of nodes on top of an interior filled with connections."
07:17 < kanzure> tastybuds: i don't think that you should be surprised to learn that transhumanists write open-source software or know about copyleft and other schemes.
07:18 < tastybuds> Thanks
07:18 < tastybuds> Haven't seen this yet!!
07:20 < kanzure> oh man two exclamation point i regret engaging you
07:22 < JayDugger> Now, now...play nice.
07:22 < kanzure> it's just so hard
07:22 < JayDugger> That difficulty makes self-restraint a virtue.
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07:23 < JayDugger> Wow...I have turned into my Dad.
07:24 < kanzure> i suppose what i am upset about is that he does not treat open-source licensing as obvious
07:24 < kanzure> but rather as something unique that he expects people to have not already decided about on their own
07:24 < kanzure> this shows that he has extremely low expectations
07:27 < JayDugger> You're right. I hope instead for correctable ignorance or naiveté.
07:28 < JayDugger> But that's usually in vain.
07:29 < kanzure> and also: most people don't invoke politics as the justification for open-source licensing, but rather business development and strategy.
07:31 < JayDugger> Right again.
07:31 < JayDugger> My child-like faith in the innate goodness of human nature is taking a beating here.
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07:32 < kanzure> i hope not, i'm just elaborating on my motivation for backing off when i saw exclamation marks
07:32 < kanzure> i encourage you to continue on the path of optimism and uh stuff
07:33 < JayDugger> Yeah...thanks. Let me go raid my wife's jar of Adderall. That should do it...if I can find it.
07:34 < kanzure> hmm a jar is a good idea
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08:50 < the8thbit|work> Hello
08:50 < the8thbit|work> Does anyone here have an account on the NEURON forums?
08:51 < the8thbit|work> I need admin approval to post there, but my account has been sitting in limbo for a couple of weeks.
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09:03 < heath> hm, i think the oculus rift or similar might be a worthwhile investment
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09:05 < heath> back is starting to have problems looking down at the laptop constantly
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09:08 < justanotheruser> heath: Interested in buying the original devkit?
09:30 < the8thbit|work> heath: I'm thinking the virtuix omni could be good therapy for sitting in an office chair all day
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10:45 < bbrittain_> maaku: yo, you worked at transcriptic, right?
10:45  * bbrittain_ is pretty sure you did
10:45 < maaku> bbrittain_: yes?
10:45 < bbrittain_> did you work with an intern named Jason Kang?
10:46 < maaku> no, there were only 3 other employees when I was there
10:46 < maaku> they were just starting the intern program
10:46 < maaku> i was there in March/April 2013
10:47 < bbrittain_> ahhh dammit. I was hoping for a sidechannel reference, he just applied to Ginkgo
10:47 < maaku> ah sorry
10:47 < bbrittain_> np!
10:47 < bbrittain_> thanks anyways
10:47 < maaku> i can say if he was hired by Max and co., he must be pretty smart :)
10:48 < bbrittain_> he sent us some pretty damn generic java code as a "look I can code" thing, which actually made me skeptical
10:49 < bbrittain_> it had some swing in it
10:49  * bbrittain_ shudders
10:50 < Qfwfq> bbrittain_: Are you aware how difficult your company is to naively find search results about?
10:51 < Qfwfq> Oh I guess it works better with the full name.
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10:53 < kanzure> "who the hell is tom knight??? he needs a less generic name"
10:53 < justanotheruser> Is bitcoin incentives.pdf being hosted and updated as a pdf anywhere?
10:53 < kanzure> no
10:53 < kanzure> also i haven't added to that in a while
10:56 < kanzure> it's not easy enumerating those things
10:56 < kanzure> bbrittain_: well, what do you guys need a programmer for specifically?
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11:01 < justanotheruser> listing off incentives is pretty smart actually. It would be cool if the same thing was made for the US government
11:02 < kanzure> that's pathetically simple: asymmetric power is dangerous and destroys individuals, therefore x i forget what x is but the solution is related to individual empowerment
11:07 < justanotheruser> are you ancap?
11:07 < kanzure> my ideas were developed by myself in isolation during compulsory public education
11:08 < kanzure> btw the constitution and bill of rights is largely a bunch of warnings about asymmetrically large powers in society, so you shouldn't immediately jump to ancap
11:09 < kanzure> although to be honest ancap is probably, in general, closer to generating things that look like my thoughts....
11:10 < kanzure> (actually i haven't investigated ancap much, so maybe i shouldn't make that sort of statement.)
11:12 < bbrittain_> Qfwfq: yes, add Bioworks to the end and it is fine
11:13 < Qfwfq> bbrittain_: How hard is the B.S. requirement?
11:13 < bbrittain_> Qfwfq: weak? for a dev position.
11:14 < Qfwfq> Cool.
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11:14 < bbrittain_> Qfwfq: shoot me a pm with some info
11:14 < kanzure> bbrittain_: hire ParahSailin
11:14 < justanot1eruser> kanzure: sounds like you're closer to minarchist
11:14 < kanzure> justanot1eruser: words, man
11:15 < bbrittain_> market anarchism ftw
11:15 < bbrittain_> no. minarchism vs ancap is soooo different
11:15 < justanot1eruser> In the strictest sense, it holds that states ought to exist (as opposed to anarchy), that their only legitimate function is the protection of individuals from aggression, theft, breach of contract, and fraud, and that the only legitimate governmental institutions are the military, police, and courts.
11:15 < kanzure> i would hesitate to call myself a subscriber of any particular political group. i think they are all suspicious and you should be troubled by them.
11:15 < nmz787_i> I have no idea what y'all are talking about
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11:16 < bbrittain_> government, and it's inevitable evils
11:16 < bbrittain_> s/inevitable/inherent/
11:16 < justanot1eruser> minarchism isn't a political group afaik
11:17 < justanot1eruser> I wonder if this channel was less libertarian until it got intertwined with #bitcoin-wizards
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11:17 < p42___> Zoltan for president! http://www.transhumanistparty.org/
11:18 < kanzure> justanot1eruser: extropians was originally a libertarian group
11:18 < justanot1eruser> p42___: it's like I'm looking at the future of web design
11:18 < kanzure> justanot1eruser: cypherpunks/extropians/etc were libertarian long before bitcoin existed
11:19 < kanzure> i mean, libertarian-seeming, if not explicitly libertarian
11:19 < maaku> justanot1eruser: ancap is confused that efficiency doesn't in itself produce value alignment. unfortunately most human attempts at creating value also fail...
11:19 < kanzure> p42___: do not confuse forming political groups with "doing good engineering work"
11:19 < kanzure> p42___: otherwise you're just wasting everyone's time in here
11:19 < maaku> that's for sure
11:19 < bbrittain_> Zoltan is a crazy statist
11:19 < bbrittain_> and a poor writer
11:20 < maaku> i never understood why a transhumanist party would want a presidential candidate
11:20 < kanzure> maaku: "maybe if we form a big enough group, some super genius will descend from the heavens and make my work easier for me and do it for me. just gotta get political enough for it to happen!" hahahaa :(
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11:21 < maaku> just get a congretional rep. a single rep whose only job is to get pork attached to bills funding nano/bio/whatever research
11:21 < kanzure> eh, you're welcome to do that, but i don't think that will maintain mission integrity at all
11:21 < maaku> bah i don't want anything to do with politics
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11:22 < kanzure> excellent
11:22 < kanzure> shut up and code :)
11:22 < justanotheruser> kanzure: and democratic transhumanists were originally a socialist group
11:22 < kanzure> yes well they are insane
11:22 < maaku> i even stopped voting years ago
11:22 < justanotheruser> I guess you guys are extropians though :P
11:23 < archels> .title http://journal.frontiersin.org/Journal/10.3389/fnins.2014.00379/full
11:23 < yoleaux> Frontiers | FPGA implementation of a biological neural network based on the Hodgkin-Huxley neuron model | Neuromorphic Engineering
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11:24 < kanzure> justanotheruser: here is a description of what we do http://diyhpl.us/wiki/declaration
11:24 < maaku> you can call me whatever you want as long as it doesn't impede getting across the finish line
11:26 < maaku> is this guy on here? http://lesswrong.com/r/discussion/lw/bp9/why_i_moved_from_ai_to_neuroscience_or_uploading/
11:27 < kanzure> not really, davidad doesn't come here anymore
11:27 < kanzure> he used to
11:27 < maaku> :(
11:27 < archels> so they got 150 neurons with current-based synapses to work at realtime
11:27 < kanzure> if it was possible to convince davidad to show up it would be nice
11:27 < kanzure> dalrymple is everywhere
11:28 < kanzure> .g site:gnusha.org/logs davidad
11:28 < yoleaux> http://gnusha.org/logs/2012-12-07.log
11:29 < kanzure> hrm wrong link
11:29 < p42___> 1) Hack banks. 2) Buy island/floating city. 3) Declare sovereignty. 4) Setup nukes to go off automatically if sovereignty is impinged. 5) Cure death and take over the rest of the world. 5) Go into space.
11:29 < kanzure> 3 is stupid
11:29 < kanzure> 1 is stupid
11:29 < p42___> why?
11:29 < kanzure> 2 is stupid. typical surface dweller attitude.
11:30 < kanzure> 3 doesn't matter at all. nobody gives a shit what you declare.
11:30 < maaku> skip straight to 5 please
11:30 < p42___> hehe
11:30 < p42___> Can't get into space without a space program.
11:31 < maaku> p42___: spacex isn't good enough?
11:31 < p42___> maaku: Nope.
11:31 < p42___> And I don't trust Elon not to leave me behind
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11:32 < maaku> leave you behind? not if you have money
11:32 < maaku> just buy some bitcoins, put them somewhere safe, and work on the cure-death thingy
11:32 < p42___> maaku: He may have a personal grudge against me.
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11:32 < maaku> haha ok that's your problem to solve then :P
11:33 < p42___> It's easier to start my own space program.
11:33 < nmz787_i> "with blackjack, and hookers"
11:34 < maaku> incidentally i think all the free-state people have got it wrong. they should be working whatever good paying 9-5 job they can get, to cover mortgage on desireable real estate
11:34 < maaku> then sell it all and ship themselves to mars in 20 years
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11:35 < kanzure> maaku: i think most of those people are disillusioned about "work had -> build up capital"
11:35 < kanzure> seeing as how cheap debt is at the moment
11:35 < maaku> true
11:35 < kanzure> *hard
11:35 < kanzure> hard work is hard, and at least doubly so when capital accumulation doesn't work
11:35 < kanzure> or, doesn't work fast enough
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11:39 < p42___> kanzure: Where would you like to dwell if not on the surface? Don't you like sunlight?
11:45 < bbrittain_> oh, I know davidad. should I remind him to come around?
11:47 < kanzure> bbrittain_: yes you should bribe him and coerce him, also use lbackmail if necessary
11:47 < kanzure> also guns use guns those usually work
11:47 < kanzure> p42___: surface is where storms destroy your boats and shit
11:48 < p42___> kanzure: Make them storm proof.
11:48 < kanzure> also, many locations are tax havens, so i'm not sure a tax haven is sufficient motivation, i see no reason why that economic arrangement would be better than land-dwelling economic arrangements
11:48 < kanzure> stormproofing like, make them really really big?
11:49 < p42___> kanzure: I dunno. Use your imagination.
11:49 < kanzure> my imagination says that bluesed needs like $500 million for their superboat
11:49 < p42___> so?
11:49 < kanzure> and i am not prepared to spend $500 million on a stupid boat
11:49 < kanzure> i have much better things to be doing with $500 million
11:49 < p42___> see step 1
11:49 < kanzure> maaku's ste 1 makes more sense
11:49 < kanzure> *step
11:51 < kanzure> but again, why would that be particularly useful compared to performing those same activities on land?
11:52 < p42___> fine. We'll get an island and a boat.
11:53 < kanzure> why though?
11:53 < p42___> Somewhere to put the labs.
11:53 < kanzure> but labs can exist in the currently populated areas
11:53 < kanzure> so that's not a good explanation?
11:54 < p42___> It's just more efficient if we all sleep together. See Xerox PARC.
11:56 < p42___> And it's harder to do security in currently populated areas
11:56 < kanzure> what are you comparing xerox parc to?
11:56 < p42___> My dream hackspace
11:56 < kanzure> huh?
11:56 < kanzure> how are those not similar?
11:57 < p42___> those?
11:57 < kanzure> xerox parc
11:57 < kanzure> and your hackspace thing
11:57 < kanzure> i asked you what you were comparing xerox parc to
11:57 < kanzure> you said it's more efficient
11:57 < kanzure> xerox parc: people go into an office together
11:57 < kanzure> hackspace: people go into the same room together
11:57 < kanzure> so how is xerox parc more efficient there than your hackspace?
11:58 < p42___> Cos we're not allowed to sleep here.
11:58 < kanzure> interwebs seems to work pretty well to me
11:58 < p42___> IRL is more efficient.
11:58 < kanzure> you should be comparing efficiency of xerox parc (paying everyone millions of bucks to move to a certain area) to the efficiency of the interwebs, not the efficiency of your local hackerspace
11:59 < p42___> interwebs is inefficient and unhealthy
11:59 < kanzure> anyway, i'm not convinced that i can convince any of you lazy dirtbags to move to a specific area
11:59 < kanzure> i was only ever able to convince fenn to move
12:00 < p42___> I'm convinced.
12:00 < kanzure> so therefore internet seems to be the only option for collaboration
12:00 < p42___> Build it and the people will come.
12:00 < kanzure> fuck you
12:00 < kanzure> that's the worst piece of advice ever, and everyone knows
12:00 < p42___> why?
12:00 < kanzure> .g site:news.ycombinator.com "build it and they will come" fallacy
12:00 < yoleaux> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8766845
12:01 < p42___> In my experience it works.
12:01 < p42___> WTF is pipedrive? A hackspace?
12:01 < kanzure> https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Anews.ycombinator.com%20%22build%20it%20and%20they%20will%20come%22
12:02 < kanzure> many excellent reason why you should not believe in "build and they will come"
12:02 < kanzure> if anything it should be "build because i want to" and not "because i believe that they will be forced by violence to give me money"
12:02 < p42___> It doesn't apply to interweb things.
12:03 < kanzure> also, paying them to show up at your labor camp is another idea
12:03 < p42___> huh? Who said anything about violence or money?
12:03 < p42___> I don't think they'd be interested in money. There will be free cheese and stuff
12:03 < kanzure> you are the one who implied violence "build it and they will come"
12:03 < kanzure> "build it" is obviously not a sufficient reason why people will do anything for you
12:03 < p42___> I did not imply violence!
12:04 < kanzure> of course it does, in the absence of sufficient reason my only conclusion can be that you meant violence
12:04 < kanzure> because there's literally no other alternative
12:04 < p42___> Don't make assumptions.
12:04 < kanzure> it was not an assumption
12:05 < p42___> They'll come for the cheese. No violence needed
12:05 < kanzure> so you are going to be paying them?
12:05 < p42___> only in cheese.
12:05 < kanzure> what?
12:05 < p42___> there will be free cheese when they want it.
12:05 < p42___> As much as they can eat.
12:05 < kanzure> i hate you get the hell out
12:06 < maaku> p42___: no one of any value will ever move anywhere you want them to
12:06 < p42___> maaku: They will if I tempt them with nice labs and free cheese.
12:06 < maaku> because guess what? I have a wife. and kids. and extended family. and friends. and a social life.
12:06 < maaku> fuck your cheese
12:06 < p42___> maaku: Bring them with you.
12:06 < kanzure> you are a moron
12:07 < kanzure> there's no reasoning with you at this point
12:07 < kanzure> you don't make things happen by adding arbitrary amounts of friction
12:07 < kanzure> you make things happen by making things have less friction
12:08 < p42___> friction?
12:12 < maaku> p42___: that thing which when you experience too much of it you burst in flames and die
12:13 < p42___> maaku: nice labs and free cheese. Where does the friction come from? Here at LHS rule 0 is 'Do not be on fire'
12:14 < maaku> p42___: reading comprehension
12:14 < maaku> <maaku> because guess what? I have a wife. and kids. and extended family. and friends. and a social life.
12:14 < kanzure> and also, seasteading is a bunch of extra effort
12:14 < kanzure> whereas labs on land work just fine
12:14 < p42___> <p42___> maaku: Bring them with you.
12:14 < kanzure> "and extended family. and frineds."
12:15 < kanzure> all of them? this is insanely expensive dude.
12:15 < p42___> which part of step 1 do you not understand?
12:15 < kanzure> instead of hacking a bank why can't i just use my own money?
12:16 < p42___> sure, you can if you're insanely rich.
12:16 < kanzure> you don't have to be insanely rich if you avoid doing insanely stupid shit like "relocate an entire city of friends to very expensive seasteading infrastructure"
12:16 < kanzure> you can just be regularly rich
12:16  * p42___ shrugs
12:17 < p42___> Don't come then. Nobody is forcing you.
12:17 < kanzure> come where? what the fuck man
12:17 < p42___> to the island.
12:18 < kanzure> okay, so having an island with nobody on it, is much less useful
12:18 < kanzure> i don't see your point
12:18 < kanzure> how does this prove that in-person is better than internet collaboration ?
12:18 < p42___> huh? I want you to come, but I don't want to use violence.
12:19 < p42___> I'm sure you'll turn up sooner or later when you see all the other people enjoying the labs and free cheese. Build it and the people will come.
12:20 < kanzure> you're just repeating yourself now
12:20 < kanzure> stop wasting my time
12:20 < kanzure> can you clarify whether or not you are insanely rich?
12:20 < p42___> Yes.
12:20 < kanzure> and?
12:20 < p42___> Yes.
12:21 < maaku> already insanely rich?
12:21 < kanzure> if i could offer you a plan that would more productively, more efficiently generate transhumanist technology, without an island involved, would you consider it?
12:21 < p42___> Yes.
12:21 < kanzure> if you are wasting my time, why should i not nuke you from orbit?
12:22 < p42___> Collateral damage
12:22 < maaku> was that a yes to kanzure? because seriously if you have money there are ways to get started on the conquer death thing
12:22 < maaku> if not, get lost because you're wasting our time
12:22 < archels> can anyone grab this? http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2015/01/21/science.aaa3035
12:22 < kanzure> gimme pdf link instead
12:23 < archels> http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2015/01/21/science.aaa3035.full.pdf
12:23 < kanzure> no :(
12:23 < archels> k, thanks for giving it a try
12:24 < archels> it's all about 'photons coaxed to move slower than speed of light in vacuum in a vacuum', but I'm not certain they're not just talking about phase vs. group velocity
12:26 < archels> no I guess they really do mean group velocity
12:27 < kanzure> surely there's something on arxiv
12:27 < archels> the effect is only on the order of 20 wavelength per metre, according to this sciencedirect article http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/01/150123144158.htm
12:28 < archels> maybe this http://arxiv.org/pdf/1411.3987
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13:08 < nmz787_i> i can see it archels
13:08 < nmz787_i> someone might be able to just make a bookmarklet that hits the ECS URL in paperbpt
13:09 < nmz787_i> paperbot's source
13:22 < kanzure> "Theory of interstellar trade" https://www.princeton.edu/~pkrugman/interstellar.pdf
13:23 < kanzure> oh this was krugman?
13:23 < kanzure> given his strange inability to comprehend bitcoin why should i expect him to comprehend interstellar trade
13:23 < kanzure> well, i guess it's not that strange, nobody know bitcoin
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13:38 < Douhet> bitcoin seems more and more like a religion every time I see people talking about it
13:39 < justanotheruser> Douhet: you're plobably listening in the wrong places
13:39 < kanzure> right
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13:40 < kanzure> Douhet: there's an extremely limited number of people that understand how bitcoin works, so what you are observing is the effects of nobody understanding anything about it
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13:41 < justanotheruser> theres reddit.com/r/bitcoin-is-amazing-stop-fudding-no-there-are-no-bad-security-practices-the-blockchain-is-useful-for-everything-invest-in-my-new-scamcoin
13:41 < kanzure> which one is that?
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13:41 < justanotheruser> the bitcoin subreddit
13:42 < kanzure> i was expecting you to say "all of them"
13:42 < justanotheruser> nah, there are some good ones
13:42 < kanzure> impossible!
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13:43 < justanotheruser> If you want to risk clicking a reddit link, this is the top post on /r/askscience right now https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/2te8u6/how_can_we_tell_whether_a_galaxy_it_tinted_red/
13:43 < justanotheruser> basically if you're noise or speculating you get banned
13:43 < kanzure> i'd rather not
13:43 < justanotheruser> o.o
13:43 < kanzure> i lost interest in reddit back in 2008
13:44 < kanzure> it's just a giant engine for producing raging lunatics
13:44 < kanzure> "but the subreddits are good!" is nonsense
13:44 < justanotheruser> that doesn't even make sense
13:44 < justanotheruser> reddit is just a collection of subreddits
13:44 < Douhet> didn't reddit sell for a large quantity of money and everyone with sense has since moved on?
13:44 < justanotheruser> if the subreddits are bad, what can be good about reddit? the logo?
13:44 < justanotheruser> err
13:44 < justanotheruser> if the subreddits are good, what can be bad about reddit
13:45 < kanzure> the subreddits are not good
13:45 < kanzure> that is what is nonsense about "but the subreddits are good"
13:45 < justanotheruser> I'm addressing that that argument doesn't make sense
13:45 < kanzure> yes, the one you think i made does not seem to make sense
13:45 < justanotheruser> I don't think you made it. It was in quotes
13:45 < kanzure> and now i am too confused and disinterested
13:46 < justanotheruser> lol
13:46 < kanzure> i also don't have data to convince you with
13:46 < justanotheruser> I know reddit is shit 99.9% of the tim
13:46 < justanotheruser> there are 2 good subreddits I know of (bitcoin obviously not one of them)
13:47 < nmz787_i> reddit has always been low-activity IMO
13:47 < nmz787_i> but I only look in a few places there
13:47 < justanotheruser> I can see yc going the way of reddit in the next 5 years
13:48 < kanzure> i hope you mean hacker news
13:48 < justanotheruser> yes, the VC guys will probably still be fine
13:48 < nmz787_i> you mean that kanzure will hate it too in 5 years?
13:48 < justanotheruser> nmz787_i: yes, my metric for a sites value is kanzure points
13:48 < kanzure> ~/local/jotmuch/jotmuch$ ./jot count
13:48 < kanzure> 2464
13:49 < justanotheruser> Which is why I'm building a website dedicated to ameteurs speculating about the cool stuff we will have in the future
13:50 < kanzure> why speculators
13:50 < justanotheruser> because futurology
13:50 < kanzure> that's just futurism. futurism doesn't work.
13:50 < kanzure> the only way to predict the future is to invent it
13:50 < justanotheruser> sorry, that was sarcasm
13:51 < justanotheruser> anyways, am I not gonna be able to eat bananas soon?
13:51 < kanzure> i haven't been tracking that, it sounds plausible
13:51 < justanotheruser> thats so sad
13:51 < justanotheruser> humanities greatest fruit.. gone
13:52 < justanotheruser> is the virus banana exclusive?
13:52 < kanzure> justanotheruser: if you want to get people excited, i think you should appeal to their greed ("someone is going to become very very wealthy making <x> work")
13:52 < justanotheruser> kanzure: I was joking. I know how much you enjoy futurology
13:52 < kanzure> <3
13:52 < nmz787_i> does git reset --hard HEAD^ remove uncommitted changes?
13:52 < kanzure> it depends on what you mean by remove
13:52 < nmz787_i> google told me it would only uncommit the last commit
13:53 < nmz787_i> but now the files I'd modified are gone!
13:53 < nmz787_i> reset I guess
13:53 < kanzure> if you have run that command and you regret it, you should recover the commit from git reflog
13:53 < nmz787_i> i never committed the changed
13:53 < nmz787_i> changes
13:53 < kanzure> if you want the changes to appear in your working directory then you need to use --soft
13:53 < kanzure> instead of --hard
13:53 < nmz787_i> I already lost the files
13:54 < kanzure> git reflog man
13:54 < kanzure> you're not listening
13:54 < nmz787_i> I think I can ctrl-z in sublime text
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13:54 < kanzure> why does nobody listen
13:54 < kanzure> aaaaaa
13:54 < nmz787_i> c861372 HEAD@{0}: checkout: moving from assigner_debugging to master
13:54 < nmz787_i> c861372 HEAD@{1}: checkout: moving from master to assigner_debugging
13:54 < nmz787_i> c861372 HEAD@{2}: reset: moving to HEAD^
13:54 < nmz787_i> 9e6a85c HEAD@{3}: commit: added file needed for recently added symbol unit-test
13:54 < nmz787_i> that top of reflog
13:55 < nmz787_i> but it says nothing about the uncommitted files that I'd modified
13:55 < kanzure> when you say uncommitted do you mean you committed and then reverted?
13:55 < nmz787_i> no
13:55 < nmz787_i> i never committed
13:56 < kanzure> ouch
13:56 < nmz787_i> i commited that unittest file, but I was not up-to-date, so I couldn't push
13:56 < kanzure> did you `git add`?
13:56 < nmz787_i> no
13:56 < kanzure> double ouch
13:56 < kanzure> you can always push even if you're not up-to-date by pushing to a different branch
13:56 < nmz787_i> ctrl-z and saving all the files in my text-editor it is
13:56 < kanzure> git push origin whateverlocalname:some-novel-remote-branch-name
13:57 < kanzure> also i recommend looking at git stash and git stash apply
13:57 < nmz787_i> git needs a dumber-person compaitibility-layer
14:00 < kanzure> it probably warned you
14:00 < kanzure> if it did not warn you that you were about to blow away your working directory changes then that is a legitimate bug
14:01 < kanzure> one reason why it may not warn you about those changes being blown away is if you had already used git add on them... in which case, you can still recover those files using git reflog.
14:11 < nmz787_i> no I didn't git add them
14:11 < nmz787_i> because I hadn't branched
14:11  * nmz787_i needs to get into the habit of branching soon
14:14 < kanzure> sometimes when i forget that i haven't saved my changes i often save a copy of the final version of the file (:w copy2.txt), revert back to where i had done the first feature and save the file to the original location, branch, git add, git commit, uno my reversions in my text editor, then delete the changes that were just committed, make a branch from the original branch again, then git add and git commit the changes
14:14 < kanzure> of course, that's only if the features are logically separate and unrelated. otherwise, i will just keep the changes on the same branch.
14:15 < nmz787_i> basically I was debugging, then someone told me I forgot to commit a file needed by a new unit test I added yesterday
14:16 < nmz787_i> I didn't have anything on git add
14:16 < nmz787_i> but I was also behind master by that point
14:16 < nmz787_i> so when i git added the missing unit-test related file, committed it, then tried to push, it complained i was out of date
14:16 < nmz787_i> which is stupid, because I was adding a file that the repo didn't already have
14:17 < kanzure> why is that stupid?
14:17 < nmz787_i> so IMO I can't tell why it wouldn't take it
14:17 < nmz787_i> well because why should it need to be up-to-date when the file didn't exist in the remote
14:18 < nmz787_i> whether I was up to date or not, that file did not exist in any git repos other than mine
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14:18 < kanzure> you were trying to push the latest commit on your local branch (called 'master' but this does not matter) to the remote repo's branch with the same name
14:18 < kanzure> and it was telling you "no, because your commit does not reference previous commit history"
14:18 < nmz787_i> but it was a totally new file, so I don't see what history it could refer to other than DID NOT EXIST
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14:19 < kanzure> the history of the branch that you were pushing did not include references to previous history the remote repo knew about, which is basically a redaction and a dangerous operation
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14:19 < kanzure> er, not quite a redaction, what's the right concept
14:19 < kanzure> whatever, it's a loss of some kind
14:20 < nmz787_i> redaction makes me think of FOIA
14:20 < kanzure> redactions are supposed to be intentional by some redacting party
14:20 < kanzure> so it's the wrong word for me to be using here
14:21 < nmz787_i> apparently I should learn also to not take the first stackoverflow answer as what I need
14:21 < nmz787_i> reset soft seems like it would have kept those un-added uncommitted files around
14:22 < kanzure> "--soft Does not touch the index file or the working tree at all"
14:24 < nmz787_i> oh, apparently my old roommate made a TCDS machine (he's an EE) and said he's had some success
14:24 < nmz787_i> I heard this last night second-hand from another ex-rommate, so I haven't gotten to scoop from the main man yet
14:25 < night> nmz787_i: is this just like hooking up a couple AAAs to your skull?
14:25 < night> or a bit more sophisticated?
14:26 < nmz787_i> idk, I just emailed him
14:26 < nmz787_i> kanzure: would know more
14:26 < kanzure> night: are you asking "what is tcds" or are you asking "is your friend a moron"?
14:26 < nmz787_i> or maybe ParahSailin or ThomasEgi
14:27 < night> kanzure: I see articles every few months about another idiot hooking up batteries to their skulls in varying configurations and claiming superhuman abilities
14:28 < night> and as I understand it this has been going on for centuries
14:28 < kanzure> i have not seen any claims of superhuman abilities, if you could provide those i would be amused greatly
14:28 < kanzure> hmm i'm not sure if centuries is true, perhaps one century at least
14:28 < night> lol
14:28 < kanzure> anyway, i think that it is possible that electrical stimulation is occurring, though i am not convinced anyone has figured out useful targetting
14:28 < nmz787_i> hmm http://hackaday.com/2015/01/23/real-world-adblock/
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14:48 < kanzure> "Readers who find Figure II puzzling should recall that a diagram of an imaginary axis must, of course, itself be imaginary."
14:56 < kanzure> https://soundcloud.com/cjart/stardust-cj-arts-hypnotic-breaks-mix-mistique-music
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15:01 < kanzure> also these:
15:01 < kanzure> https://soundcloud.com/suffusedmusic/cmr001-cj-art-immersion-disk-i
15:02 < kanzure> https://soundcloud.com/suffusedmusic/cmr001-cj-art-immersion-disk-ii
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15:36 < kanzure> "if you do not know the present, how can you claim to know the future" well, hm
15:37 < kanzure> hehe a babylon5 quote hah
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15:57 < narwh4l> hi everyone
16:00 < kanzure> hello
16:01 < the8thbit|work> hello
16:05 < nmz787_i> what's the best mailing list etiquette guide?
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16:10 < kanzure> hey look they find DPR's tumblr
16:10 < kanzure> *found
16:10 < kanzure> blah. let me try again.
16:11 < kanzure> hey look they found DPR's tumblr account
16:11 < kanzure> "Everybody knows. I am so screwed guys."
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16:11 < narwh4l> Link kanzure ?
16:13 < narwh4l> kanzure, also any links on attempts to build contracting on top of btc would be appreciated
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16:14 < narwh4l> (not theory)
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16:18 < kanzure> narwh4l: i think that is a question better suited to #bitcoin-wizards
16:18 < kanzure> narwh4l: perhaps https://github.com/Blockstream/contracthashtool
16:19 < nmz787_i> DPR or DPRK?
16:19 < narwh4l> Dread Pirate
16:19 < narwh4l> The trial is going on now
16:19  * nmz787_i knows little more about this than what you just said
16:19 < kanzure> he kept a journal
16:20 < nmz787_i> he was the mt gox person and also silk road creator?
16:20 < kanzure> where he mixed up his personal life and DPR
16:20 < kanzure> it's hilarious
16:20 < kanzure> "okay so today i learned php/mysql"
16:20 < kanzure> "today i blabbed to a girl i liked that i am the greatest druglord of all time"
16:20 < chris_99> haha, is it public?
16:21 < kanzure> court records yo
16:21 < chris_99> ahh
16:21 < kanzure> i think someone has uploaded a few
16:21 < kanzure> i don't have a link at the moment
16:21 < narwh4l> greatest druglord of all time, please
16:21 < narwh4l> haha
16:22 < narwh4l> kanzure, are you on doj.gov?
16:22 < narwh4l> can't find anything
16:38 < nmz787_i> huh, rhino3d student version can be used for commercial projects
16:38 < nmz787_i> that is indeed cool
16:38 < nmz787_i> "RhinoScript is a scripting tool based on Microsoft's VBScript language. With RhinoScript, you can quickly add functionality to Rhino, or automate repetitive tasks."
16:38 < nmz787_i> ew
16:39 < nmz787_i> oh, huh, this exists too "Rhino.Python (RhinoCommon)"
16:39 < nmz787_i> http://wiki.mcneel.com/developer/pythonandrhinocommon
16:40 < nmz787_i> 'Many of the features that once could only be done in a .NET plug-in can now be done in a python script'
16:42 < kanzure> narwh4l: nah, i literally don't have the link
16:43 < kanzure> narwh4l: name a better drug lord. like which one am i supposed to be rooting for if not DPR?
16:44 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.161.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
16:44 < nmz787_i> DPR in the DPRK
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16:44  * nmz787_i waits for that movie to come out next year
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17:01 < kanzure> good overview of the various confusions around conventions for what gets to be called a 0day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8937863
17:07 < narwh4l> kanzure, escobar
17:07 < narwh4l> he's dead but
17:08 < narwh4l> > DPR
17:08 < kanzure> hrm.
17:13 < narwh4l> kanzure, I'm sure there are a lot of s. american drug kings worth more than DPR currently alive
17:13 < narwh4l> probably chinese as well
17:13 < kanzure> oh i'm sure
17:14 < kanzure> yeah it's not because of the money, although he did earn a substantial amount
17:14 < narwh4l> You _could_ probably say he was the most peaceful drug lord ever
17:14 < kanzure> well, i was oging to claim something about bloodshed, but in general i'm sure there are many druglords who haven't killed or paid for any hits either
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17:18 < nmz787_i> golden triangle yo
17:19 < justanotheruser> narwh4l: as a ratio of drugs transmitter per persons killed?
17:20 < narwh4l> justanotheruser, yeah, if you did a ratio I think DPR's would be pretty decent
17:20 < justanotheruser> Well I guess he didn't kill anyone, he just thought he killed someone
17:20 < narwh4l> that's an interesting point
17:20 < narwh4l> Ok, so he might have a perfect score
17:20 < nmz787_i> idk wasn't silk road only around for a few years
17:20 < justanotheruser> infinity
17:20 < narwh4l> hah
17:20 < nmz787_i> there's no way a bunch of nerds spiked the worldwide drug consumption
17:21 < justanotheruser> I'm sure there's plenty a dealers that don't hurt anyone with a score of infinity
17:21 < narwh4l> well, really it would be 0/#sales
17:21 < nmz787_i> now compare 'dealers' ratio to big-pharma
17:21 < justanotheruser> being a druglord probably involves killing a few people, unless you have a power monopoly
17:21 < justanotheruser> nmz787_i: does big pharma kill people?
17:22 < nmz787_i> duh
17:22 < kanzure> right, just because they are classified as criminals by the government doesn't mean they are actually criminals
17:22 < kanzure> so i suspect there are people who are not DPR who have not murdered
17:22 < justanotheruser> kanzure: crime is defined by the government
17:22 < justanotheruser> nmz787_i: how?
17:22 < nmz787_i> either giving you bad shit, or holding back the good shit
17:22 < kanzure> however, are there that many code-slinging, tor-using druglords amassing that much capital?
17:23 < justanotheruser> nmz787_i: taking bad shit is your decision, holding back the good shit is the FDAs decision
17:24 < kanzure> unfortunately things are not that black and white
17:24 < kanzure> i mean, the FDA would like to think so
17:24 < kanzure> they think it be like it do but it ain't
17:24 < justanotheruser> in what way?
17:24 < kanzure> for an organization such as the FDA the optimal strategy is deny everything
17:24 < kanzure> *reject everything
17:25 < kanzure> or nearly optimal, i mean
17:25 < kanzure> another important part of that strategy is increase the costs and friction for anyone to apply/waste their time
17:25 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/fda
17:27 < justanotheruser> kanzure: Is it illegal for me to make and use my own prosthetic? Or is it just to sell or give it to someone else?
17:27 < kanzure> i'm not sure if there is any relevant case law
17:27 < kanzure> as far as i know, there is no specific law making that illegal
17:27 < kanzure> however, there may be some law regarding the manufacture of medical devices without prescriptions, i dunno
17:27 < kanzure> assume the worst my friend
17:28 < kanzure> (and then do it anyway)
17:28 < justanotheruser> Is heroin good for ADD?
17:28 < kanzure> never tried
17:29 < kanzure> gwern might know
17:29 < justanotheruser> heh
17:30 < justanotheruser> Well I don't have any need for prosthetics atm
17:30 < justanotheruser> Are you ever worried the FDA will get mad at you and send people to take your food and drugs?
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17:30 < kanzure> kuniholm runs an open-source prosthetics group for 3d printer enthusiasts
17:30 < kanzure> i think he's ex-military
17:31 < justanotheruser> Since you can cook and farm however you like, isn't it fair to assume you can make whatever medical devices you like as long as you don't give it to others (and it isn't in violation with the DEA)?
17:32 < kanzure> is it fair to assume that, yes, and also it's fair to assume that you should be able to sell anything :P
17:33 < justanotheruser> I can sell anything as long as no one kills or kidnaps
17:33 < kanzure> what are we talking about, again?
17:33 < kanzure> "whether law enforcement, upon finding out and being notified, would be interested in arresting you and pressing charges" ?
17:33 < justanotheruser> you already answered my question
17:33 < justanotheruser> oh maybe you didn't
17:33 < nmz787_i> well you can't really farm how you like
17:34 < nmz787_i> laterz
17:34 < kanzure> justanotheruser: don't let worries abut law enforcement stop you from thinking of good ideas
17:35  * nmz787_i you don't like it, go to Nepal
17:35 < nmz787_i> there you'll just get in trouble for giving drugs to the wrong cow
17:36 < kanzure> they jut all look so similar
17:36 < kanzure> just
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17:36 < justanotheruser> kanzure: tell that to Giordano Bruno
17:37 < justanotheruser> but at least hes famous
17:38 < kanzure> is he famous for mistaking cow identities?
17:38 < kanzure> oh
17:40 < justanotheruser> wat
17:41 < justanotheruser> lol
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18:14 < maaku> justanotheruser: only one of the paid hits was fake
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18:37 < justanotheruser> maaku: someone died?
19:39 < nmz787> neat, I am the only person that resulted in this sub-reddit being 'gilded' http://www.reddit.com/r/opencv/gilded
19:41 < nmz787> wtf /is/ this? https://www.reddit.com/gold/about
19:41 < kanzure> "del(camera) # shut off camera"
19:41 < kanzure> well that's one way to skin a cat i guess
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19:46 < nmz787> yeaaa idk it was code the OP posted
19:47 < nmz787> kanzure: is there an invert operation in python-brlcad? I saw XOR but idk if that could work
19:47 < nmz787> hmm
19:48 < nmz787> I can get around my CAD problem a better way than this
19:48 < nmz787> but not I'm just wondering
19:49 < justanotheruser> nmz787: what is gold? It basically allows you into an exclusive subreddit for premium quality users.
19:51 < nmz787> i am not logged in now
19:51 < nmz787> so does that mean the poster just paid reddit, or me, gold?
19:52 < justanotheruser> he paid reddit to give you a gold star
19:52 < justanotheruser> can we delegate goldstars in this channel?
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19:53 < kanzure> yes, however the hplusroadmap central bank of goldstars lost its private key 5 years ago
19:54 < nmz787> kanzure: it would be cool to have a brlcad (and python)-limited online shell for ppl to use freely
19:54 < nmz787> like sage math cloud
19:54 < nmz787> actually, I wonder if we could just convince that guy to install those packages
19:55 < kanzure> use runnable.com
19:55 < kanzure> i don't really want to write a shell for that
19:55 < kanzure> and also, if people want to use their browsers then they should use verbnurbs
19:55 < kanzure> or shapesmithcad
19:56 < kanzure> or tinkercad
19:56 < kanzure> or the one that the verbnurbs guy made
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19:59 < kanzure> https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkNetMarkets/comments/2tgymg/silk_goxed_how_dpr_used_mtgox_for_hedging_lost_big/
19:59 < kanzure> "Using recent filings in the trial of Ross Ulbricht, the 2014 leak by hackers of the Mtgox database, and a Mtgox insider, we identify Ulbricht's Mtgox account, the accessing IP, and trades made by it. The account information indicates that SR1 implemented its currency hedging system (intended to prevent vendor losses due to BTC fluctuations) by, starting in July 2011, connecting to Mtgox over the clearnet and trading through a Mtgox ...
19:59 < kanzure> ... account. Surprisingly, it seems that this IP information was not used by the US government investigation to de-anonymize SR1. The bulk of the account seems to have been stolen by a Mtgox or SR1 insider."
19:59 < nmz787> don't browser shells exist already though?
20:00 < nmz787> would it be something like a chroot?
20:00 < nmz787> or vm
20:01 < nmz787> verbnurbs isn't a shell either
20:01 < nmz787> it's a library you still run locally
20:01 < nmz787> i just mean some terminal that only let's you use brlcad binaries and python-brlcad
20:02 < nmz787> which then gets into how you restrict python usage in general i guess
20:02 < nmz787> I guess you'd turn off networking access
20:02 < nmz787> at least
20:03 < nmz787> runnable doesn't seem like it would be feasible to install brlcad on, and also python-brlcad
20:05 < kanzure> "Specifically, the seizure lists the IP 207.106.6.32. In other words, the SR1 backend server appears to have been connecting over the clearnet to Mtgox for its regular hedging transactions. "
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20:18 < kanzure> nmz787: you would run verbnurbs in the user's browser (just like it's done on verbnurbs.com), probably something like jsfiddle
20:18 < kanzure> nmz787: the modern way to provide arbitrary shells and capabilities to users is through docker containers (which is most likely what runnable.com is doing)
20:18 < kanzure> i wouldn't want to be tasked with restricting python access, but if i had to then i would use google app engine
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21:30 < nmz787> kanzure: any idea why I'm a LeafNode.extractName keyError? on line 152 here http://paste.pound-python.org/show/qOicjvMnUt1MwB7sfPCH/     error trace here   http://paste.pound-python.org/show/aWmbdew7O73jqBRu6g31/
21:31 < nmz787> why I'm getting a*
21:32 < nmz787> are underscores not valid in names?
21:35 < nmz787> oh
21:35 < nmz787> d;oh
21:35 < nmz787> I need to pass the dict value in 'brldb_name'
21:41 < nmz787> :/ now I'm just getting *** Error in `python': free(): invalid pointer: 0x0000000001ab2c90 ***
21:41 < nmz787> Aborted (core dumped)
21:57 < nmz787> so I cleaned it up some more, stopped producing cylinders for the screw holes and trying to subtract them... rather just using the 'hole' command... but the hole command isn't working http://paste.pound-python.org/show/n4iU8AL2K0dDRZygyqMN/
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22:00 < nmz787> this is what it looks like http://imgur.com/L9k3aSm
22:02 < nmz787> FYI this is the target part I am working to model http://robocraft.ru/files/datasheet/28BYJ-48.pdf
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23:07 < nmz787> oh, yay! I was not passing an in-scope variable for the db-name in the final combination!
23:08 < nmz787> kanzure: why was line 82 in http://paste.pound-python.org/show/n4iU8AL2K0dDRZygyqMN/  not throwing a readable python error?  It was emitting: *** Error in `python': free(): invalid pointer: 0x0000000001865960 ***Aborted (core dumped)
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--- Log closed Sat Jan 24 00:00:33 2015