--- Log opened Fri Feb 20 00:00:59 2015 00:01 -!- QuadIngi [~FourFire@46.66.22.4.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:12 -!- Guest39123 [~quassel@50-0-37-37.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:12 -!- maaku [~quassel@50-0-37-37.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:12 -!- maaku is now known as Guest1366 00:19 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:19 < delinquentme> kanzure, ... gantz? 00:19 < delinquentme> ( nuts ) 00:21 -!- ButaTine [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:24 -!- QuadIngi [~FourFire@46.66.22.4.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:26 < fenn> delinquentme: the anime? 00:29 -!- Quashie_ [~boingredd@50.14.92.17] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:33 -!- Quashie [~boingredd@50.14.92.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:33 < fenn> gosh why would anyone want to take a bus to facebook HQ what an unreasonable demand i have 00:43 -!- ButaTine [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:53 -!- Quashie [~boingredd@50.14.92.17] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:54 < delinquentme> fenn, ya 00:54 < delinquentme> its effing wild 00:54 < delinquentme> fenn, and why are you wanting to go to FB HQ? 00:54 -!- Quashie_ [~boingredd@50.14.92.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:55 < fenn> it's a quick bike ride on the bay trail from facebook to transcriptic 00:56 < fenn> but the bus apparently just drives past facebook and drops you in the middle of nowhere with semi trucks and trains and shit 00:57 < fenn> transcriptic really should be in emeryville next to all the biotech stuff anyway 00:57 < fenn> but it is where it is 00:58 < fenn> anyway gantz was cool; my favorite character died a horrible death of course 00:58 < delinquentme> fenn you're working @ transcriptic now? 00:59 < fenn> no 00:59 < delinquentme> getting sequences? 00:59 < fenn> i want to see what's behind the "cloud" bullshit 00:59 < delinquentme> water vapor 01:00 < fenn> i know a fair bit about robotics and scientific instruments and biology and programming and building things, so they probably need me 01:00 < fenn> i have no idea how to communicate this though 01:06 < delinquentme> you're not into selling yourself fenn? 01:07 < delinquentme> should I coach you through it? 01:07 < fenn> i wouldn't trust anything you had to say 01:08 < fenn> lots of these "negotiation" guides assume you have a super duper strong negotiating position 01:08 < fenn> whereas i have huge gaping holes in my work history 01:09 < fenn> *shrug* i guess i could just say i was at the CIA 01:10 < fenn> now kanzure will bitch at me about undervaluing myself 01:10 < fenn> i know how much i'm worth, it's convincing other people of that that's hard 01:12 -!- Quashie_ [~boingredd@50.14.92.17] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:13 -!- Quashie [~boingredd@50.14.92.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:24 -!- gnusha_ [~gnusha@unaffiliated/kanzure/bot/gnusha] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:24 -!- gnusha [~gnusha@unaffiliated/kanzure/bot/gnusha] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:24 -!- Topic for ##hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | sponsored by george church and the NRA, banned by the Federal Death Administration (4 times) | this channel is LOGGED: http://gnusha.org/logs | http://diyhpl.us/wiki 01:24 -!- Topic set by augur [~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] [Thu Jan 15 14:54:02 2015] 01:24 [Users ##hplusroadmap] 01:24 [ altersid ] [ cluckj ] [ EnabrinTain ] [ juul ] [ Quashie_ ] [ the8thbit|work ] 01:24 [ andytoshi ] [ comma8 ] [ fenn ] [ kanzure ] [ rigel ] [ the_elven_archer] 01:24 [ archels ] [ crescendo ] [ gene_hacker ] [ kenju254 ] [ ryankarason ] [ ThomasEgi ] 01:24 [ augur ] [ cuba ] [ gnusha ] [ nickjohnson ] [ saurik ] [ thundara ] 01:24 [ balrog ] [ Daeken ] [ Guest1366 ] [ night ] [ selkie_ ] [ TMA ] 01:24 [ bbrittain ] [ delinquentme] [ heath ] [ nmz787 ] [ sheena ] [ Viper168_ ] 01:24 [ Beatzebub_] [ dendritic ] [ hehelleshin ] [ nsh ] [ sivoais ] [ Vutral ] 01:24 [ bkero ] [ Douhet ] [ HEx1 ] [ paperbot ] [ Souljack ] [ yashgaroth ] 01:24 [ blueskin ] [ dpk ] [ JayDugger ] [ ParahSailin_] [ soylentbomb ] [ yoleaux ] 01:24 [ BobaMa ] [ drazak ] [ JonTitor ] [ pasky_ ] [ strages ] [ yorick ] 01:24 [ Boscop ] [ drewbot ] [ jrayhawk ] [ poohbear ] [ strangewarp_] 01:24 [ Burninate ] [ dustinm ] [ juri_ ] [ Proteus ] [ streety ] 01:24 [ catern ] [ dvorkbjel ] [ justanotheruser] [ Qfwfq ] [ superkuh ] 01:24 -!- Irssi: ##hplusroadmap: Total of 75 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 75 normal] 01:24 -!- Channel ##hplusroadmap created Thu Feb 25 23:40:30 2010 01:24 -!- Irssi: Join to ##hplusroadmap was synced in 12 secs 01:25 -!- heath [~heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:25 -!- heath [~heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:34 -!- Quashie [~boingredd@50.14.92.17] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:35 -!- Quashie_ [~boingredd@50.14.92.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:37 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:44 < nmz787> kanzure: only 100X more expensive than the last one you sent me https://sgidna.com/bxp3200.html 01:44 < nmz787> it seems like it could be put to work immediately though, for profit maybe, but I am not sure... maybe as some sort of other pipeline 01:45 < nmz787> 'Internet access required' 01:45 < nmz787> but then before that it says IF 'You will be able to monitor the progress of the instrument through the application in real time on the User Interface or via the web site if the instrument is connected to the internet during the run.' 01:58 -!- gene_hacker_ [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:58 -!- Beatzebub_ [~beatzebub@d162-156-12-57.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: No calling card for the unsung bard] 01:59 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:00 -!- gene_hacker_ is now known as gene_hacker 02:03 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:09 < archels> http://beyondhumanism.weebly.com/ 02:10 < archels> the chap behind this, Stefan Sorgner, is speaking here next week 02:10 < archels> title of the talk is "TranshumaNietzsche" 02:10 < archels> his website looks pretty barren though 02:10 -!- ButaTine [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:20 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:22 -!- gene_hacker_ [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:23 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:23 -!- gene_hacker_ is now known as gene_hacker 02:24 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:48 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:52 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:56 -!- Jaakko9114 [~Jaakko@host81-129-141-155.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:56 -!- Jaakko9114 [~Jaakko@host81-129-141-155.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:59 -!- kenju254 [~kenju254@static-41-242-0-196.ips.angani.co] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Leaving"] 03:38 -!- soylentb1mb [~k@unaffiliated/soylentbomb] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:43 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: soylentbomb 03:47 -!- ButaTine [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:49 -!- ButaTine [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:59 -!- ButaTine [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:11 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@179.26.166.26] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:12 < fenn> Guest1366: maaku how about we meet some time this weekend or next week and you convince me to move to the south bay and work at transcriptic 04:16 -!- the_elven_archer [~the_elven@190.18.162.128] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 05:02 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:15 < kanzure> fenn: the point of banning logic from protocols is that they are expecting to use webhooks or services like IFTTT or something. they don't want to run a generic virtual machine for everyone's stupid science. 05:15 < fenn> i thought it was for validation/predictability/contamination 05:16 < fenn> mostly predictability 05:16 < fenn> don't need a virtual machine to do if/then statements 05:17 < kanzure> another reason is because it allows them to run more advanced algorithms for work separation on their end; and things like (automatic) scheduling or planning. 05:18 < fenn> right, with better algebra you can refactor experiments and have less wasted resources by mashing things together in the same plate 05:18 < fenn> .wik ifttt 05:18 < yoleaux> "IFTTT is a web-based service in which users can create chains of simple conditional statements, called "recipes," that are triggered based upon changes to other web services such as Gmail, Facebook, Instagram, and Craigslist. IFTTT is an abbreviation of "If This Then That" (pronounced like "gift" without the "g")." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ifttt 05:19 < fenn> that wouldn't work for most of the use cases i mentioned 05:20 < fenn> "dear google, please tell me how many cells are in this image" 05:21 < kanzure> if you plan to meet with transcriptic then i strongly recommend hanging out with maaku first 05:23 < fenn> why am i still awake 05:24 < superkuh> Carpe noctem. 05:24 < kanzure> you were so excited to talk with me that you couldn't sleep 05:26 < kanzure> "fundamental forces" http://xkcd.com/1489/ 05:28 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:29 < kanzure> nmz787: i'm surprised they listed a price ($49,500) https://sgidna.com/bxp3200.html 05:29 < fenn> the low low price of $49,999.95 05:29 < fenn> cheapest automated gene synthesizer around, i bet 05:31 < fenn> (excludes grad students, post docs, undergrads, interns, and other disposable items. terms and conditions may apply. consult your doctor before ingesting machine output. not responsible for petitions, availability, uptime, downtime, time, gravity...) 05:31 < archels> kanzure: incidentally, how's it going with the teardown of that synthesiser (?) 05:31 < kanzure> teardown is done https://www.takeitapart.com/guide/94 05:33 < archels> what about firmware dump? any further plans? 05:33 < fenn> such 90s very beige 05:33 < fenn> the PVC plumbing pipe is a nice touch 05:34 < kanzure> not at the moment, if nmz787 has a jtag thingy laying around maybe we can pester him to do that 05:34 < fenn> beefy power supply too 05:35 < archels> that thing probably doesn't have JTAG 05:35 < fenn> no but maybe SPI 05:35 < archels> I have an EPROM reader lying around, would be happy to dump them if you'd like 05:35 < archels> probably not even SPI but I can't make out the CPU 05:36 < archels> possibly Z80? 05:36 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 05:37 < fenn> there's something satisfying about seeing a circuit board where you can immediately identify every chip and component 05:37 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:37 < kanzure> "alright reality seems to be operating as expected, no magic here" 05:38 < archels> yep Z80 05:38 < fenn> why did he peel the sticker off the PROM? 05:39 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:39 < fenn> wouldnt that risk corrupting or erasing the data? 05:40 * archels grumbles in nmz787's general direction over how images are included on the page --> background-image: url(https://s3.takeitapart.com/userimages/SPFm6dU.jpg); 05:40 < kanzure> you know it's pretty funny that delinquentme was offering negotiation tips (considering how much helped i dumped into his last negotiation) 05:40 < archels> fenn: yes, it would 05:41 < archels> there's some famous story about a live demo, where all the photographer's camera flashes flipped some bits and ruined the event 05:41 < archels> kanzure: so what was your goal exactly for this project? 05:42 < fenn> to let all the bits out!!! 05:53 -!- Viper168_ is now known as Viper168 05:58 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:05 < kanzure> archels: well, to have a dna synthesizer 06:05 < kanzure> seemed like a reasonable plan at the time 06:06 < kanzure> also that picoarray paper used basically the same setup 06:07 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:16 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:18 < gene_hacker> so how do I get 1 gigapascal of pressure for a long time? 06:23 < kanzure> steel? 06:25 < gene_hacker> to carry out a chemical reaction in 06:28 < kanzure> steel chamber? 06:30 < gene_hacker> and how to build up the pressure? 06:30 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:30 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:31 < kanzure> heat it? 06:31 < gene_hacker> without heating it 06:32 < kanzure> very good seal and pushing 06:32 < gene_hacker> is there a name for something like that? 06:33 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@46.66.22.4.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:34 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piston#mediaviewer/File:Piston.gif 06:34 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_compressor 06:35 < kanzure> heh that article shows a gif of a scroll pump (scroll compressor) 06:35 < kanzure> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatic_cylinder#mediaviewer/File:Einfachwirkender_Zylinder_funktionsprinziep.gif 07:31 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:31 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:36 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@46.66.22.4.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:46 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:57 < ParahSailin_> diamond anvil cell 08:16 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:19 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:22 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:31 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:32 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:35 < archels> might consider putting a compound in there that reacts over time and produces a gas, or such 08:36 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:36 < archels> kanzure: what do the EPROMs actually contain---programmes for operating the machine, or just some static never-going-to-be-changed OS-type code? 08:36 < ParahSailin_> both? 08:37 < archels> how inconsiderate 08:48 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:48 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:48 < kanzure> probably stuff for pushing around argon and phosphoramidites 08:49 < kanzure> valve control logic 08:49 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:49 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@8-92.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:52 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@77.88.71.230] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:53 < kanzure> gene_hacker: phosphoramidite storage problem has been resolved. informant says use freezer, they last up to a year in storage. 08:53 < gene_hacker> nice 08:54 < ParahSailin_> these guys have some cool shit http://www.azcobiotech.com/ 08:55 < kanzure> yep that's who i'll be buying from 08:55 < ParahSailin_> they also do some cheap array synthesis 08:55 < ParahSailin_> which they dont seem to publicize 08:56 < kanzure> their china outpost is failing 09:11 < kanzure> "The Seasteading Institute is consulting with a new unscripted television series for a major cable network. The show is seeking a variety of experts and survivalists ready to create a new community on the ocean while building, engineering, and rehabbing residential quarters. If you have what it takes to survive challenging weather and sea conditions, if you have a yearning desire to experiment with ocean-based technologies, if you can ... 09:11 < kanzure> ... bring a skill set that will add to the sea-villages development, then this is an opportunity for you." 09:12 < JayDugger> Let's see...do I want to basically join the Navy again? 09:12 < JayDugger> Ah, no. 09:13 < JayDugger> Though I will watch an episode if they have a Crossing of the Line ceremony. 09:13 -!- nmz787_i [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-eupomfmadnghuckd] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:24 < nmz787_i> i'm pretty sure I made sure not to use the flash and to only keep the sticker lifted shortly... I believe at the time I wasn't sure if there was text under, but it was a window. 09:51 -!- thundara [~thundara@104.236.109.149] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:51 -!- thundara [~thundara@104.236.109.149] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:55 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:59 -!- nmz787_i1 [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-nroycmtdtofhiwdj] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:01 -!- nmz787_i [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-eupomfmadnghuckd] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:11 -!- justanot1eruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:12 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 10:17 -!- justanot1eruser is now known as justanotheruser 10:30 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:34 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:04 -!- nmz787_i1 [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-nroycmtdtofhiwdj] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:05 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.137.73] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:20 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:21 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:33 -!- Guest1366 is now known as maaku 11:34 < maaku> fenn: i don't think I have a strong opinion on you moving to the south bay or working for transcriptic :P 11:35 < maaku> but i would like to meet up with you sometime 11:35 < maaku> a weekday would probably be better than the weekend 11:35 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:41 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:45 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:49 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:56 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:57 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:21 -!- Boscop_ [me@178.73.219.198] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:25 -!- Boscop [~me@e102.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:32 -!- Boscop_ [me@178.73.219.198] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:42 -!- sheena [~home@S0106c8be196316d1.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:11 -!- Boscop [~me@178.73.219.198] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:11 -!- Boscop [~me@178.73.219.198] has quit [Changing host] 13:11 -!- Boscop [~me@unaffiliated/boscop] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:17 < kanzure> "The Government needs to be much more receptive to the idea of tackling aging rather than single conditions. Basically by tackling aging you can then deal with a whole slew of problems before they arise. " 13:17 < kanzure> that's a cute argument 13:25 < maaku> it's unfortunately still stuck in the giggle territory however 13:25 < maaku> people hear their representatives are funding anti-ageing programmes and they think they're vain or descended into madness and vote the guy out 13:27 < kanzure> so, if that is true, then i have some clever ways to screw that up 13:27 < kanzure> for one, you don't need to call it longevity, life extension or anti-aging, because even basic advances in science can be helpful 13:27 < kanzure> and then that just resolves to people complaining about basic science 13:29 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@179.26.166.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:30 < kanzure> why don't we have any crazy pneumatics people in here? 13:48 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xngcbaupydytrvgt] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:49 < kanzure> http://amorphicrobotworks.org/works/skelli/images/valvebank.jpg 13:58 -!- jrayhawk [~jrayhawk@nursie.omgwallhack.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:00 -!- jrayhawk [~jrayhawk@nursie.omgwallhack.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:02 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@66-161-138-110.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:02 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@66-161-138-110.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:07 -!- jcluck [~cluckj@c-71-225-211-210.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:10 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@c-71-225-211-210.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:25 -!- jcluck is now known as cluckj 14:44 < kanzure> http://news.sciencemag.org/biology/2015/02/human-dna-enlarges-mouse-brains 14:45 < kanzure> "Out of more than 100 candidates, they and Duke developmental neurobiologist Debra Silver tested a half-dozen. Then for HARE5, the most active enhancer in an area of the brain called the cortex, they made minigenes containing either the chimp or human version of the enhancer linked to a “reporter” gene that caused the developing mouse embryo to turn blue wherever the enhancer turned the gene on. Embryos’ developing brains turned ... 14:45 < kanzure> ... blue sooner and over a broader expanse if they carried the human version of the enhancer, Silver, Wray, and their colleagues report online today in Current Biology." 14:45 < kanzure> "The researchers determined that HARE5 likely controls a gene called Frizzled 8, which is part of a molecular pathway important in brain development. Their further studies showed that the human version of the enhancer causes cells that are destined to become nerve cells to divide more frequently, thereby providing a larger of pool of cells that become part of the cortex. As a result, the embryos carrying human HARE5 have brains that are ... 14:45 < kanzure> ... 12% larger than the brains of mice carrying the chimp version of the enhancer. Silver and Wray plan to test these mice to see if the bigger brains made them any smarter." 14:46 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822%2815%2900073-1 14:46 < kanzure> .title 14:46 < yoleaux> kanzure: Sorry, that doesn't appear to be an HTML page. 14:46 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/e1855dab73a51d6e8da0a915ce4dfa0b.txt 14:47 < kanzure> "Here we report the discovery of a human-accelerated regulatory enhancer (HARE5) of FZD8, a receptor of the Wnt pathway implicated in brain development and size [ 15, 16 ]. Using transgenic mice, we demonstrate dramatic differences in human and chimpanzee HARE5 activity, with human HARE5 driving early and robust expression at the onset of corticogenesis. Similar to HARE5 activity, FZD8 is expressed in neural progenitors of the developing ... 14:47 < kanzure> ... neocortex [ 17–19 ]. Chromosome conformation capture assays reveal that HARE5 physically and specifically contacts the core Fzd8 promoter in the mouse embryonic neocortex. To assess the phenotypic consequences of HARE5 activity, we generated transgenic mice in which Fzd8 expression is under control of orthologous enhancers (Pt-HARE5::Fzd8 and Hs-HARE5::Fzd8). In comparison to Pt-HARE5::Fzd8, Hs-HARE5::Fzd8 mice showed marked ... 14:47 < kanzure> ... acceleration of neural progenitor cell cycle and increased brain size. Changes in HARE5 function unique to humans thus alter the cell-cycle dynamics of a critical population of stem cells during corticogenesis and may underlie some distinctive anatomical features of the human brain." 14:47 < kanzure> paperbot: http://www.cell.com/science?_ob=ShoppingCartURL&_method=add&_eid=1-s2.0-S0960982215000731&originContentFamily=serial&_origin=article&_ts=1424472403&md5=8148419dcbe43ffe1c1be4dcf4be2b0e 14:47 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/9f0e6f5d086ccbb5ff42b5a1a564c087.txt 14:48 < kanzure> hmph 15:08 -!- Boscop_ [me@178.73.219.198] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:11 -!- Boscop [~me@unaffiliated/boscop] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:17 -!- altersid [~sid@altersid.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:18 -!- altersid [~sid@altersid.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:18 -!- altersid is now known as Guest88186 15:23 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@ip565f6f48.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:30 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57 < kanzure> serious business http://kreature.org/projects/3d_printer/rostock_plus/extruder/nano_extruder_worm1.jpg 16:12 < fenn> 404 16:13 < kanzure> what a jerk. 16:13 < fenn> possibly http://kreature.org/projects/3d_printer/rostock_plus/extruder/nano_extruder_worm_1.jpg 16:13 < kanzure> http://kreature.org/projects/3d_printer/rostock_plus/extruder/nano_extruder_v1_b1.png 16:13 < fenn> i thought we agreed that the thread drive extruders were a terrible awful idea that never should have existed 16:14 < kanzure> well #reprap is at it again 16:14 < fenn> oh it's just a worm gear, nevermind 16:15 < fenn> actually i have no idea 16:15 < fenn> is that a printed motor? 16:17 < kanzure> http://kreature.org/projects/submarine/ballast_idea_mockup.jpg 16:17 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-144-94-173.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-242-71-199.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:17 < fenn> we'll attack with a flotilla of syringes, they'll never see it coming 16:18 < kanzure> hm he has an etchtank 16:21 < kanzure> i should use #reprap for recruiting more often 16:25 < nmz787_i> i was thinking last night that the best idea for etcher might be a hard-drive actuator with a laser/mirror on it... basically what some of the 3d printer folks are doing... except relying on hard drive heads to be ultra smooth 16:25 < kanzure> flotilla = tortilla + floating? 16:25 < nmz787_i> also, we should definitely get someone on board who wants or already does microinjection... I can send some pipettes their way 16:25 < nmz787_i> <10 micron at the tip is easily available here 16:26 < kanzure> fenn: we should make "no garbage diving" a rule right after "no philosophy". garbage things are less likely to be reproducible or makeable in volume or uh.. serviceable.. or something. like, i never want to support 100 different people with 100 different implementations of something meant for 1 micron accuracy. or precision. 16:28 < nmz787_i> I wonder how hard it would be to get the hard drive head actuators alone 16:29 < nmz787_i> it would be a bit stupid to require people to buy such an engineered thing, just to tear it apart 16:29 < fenn> this is kinda interesting http://kreature.org/projects/krefly/krefly.txt 16:29 < fenn> kanzure: you're assuming that manufacturers will continue to make things, which is incorrect 16:30 < fenn> also a $2 DVD laser is better than a $20000 equivalent made from thor labs parts 16:32 < fenn> also the build cycle is several orders of magnitude faster for junk box parts than for ordering from amazon 16:33 < fenn> you can try to keep a precise inventory of everything in stock, but it's not practical for an individual to get one of each thing (or possible, because sometimes you have to order 10,000) 16:33 < fenn> and by everything i mean a common parts library including materials and mechanics and hardware and optics and electronics 16:34 < kanzure> i am assuming that standard parts are still a thing 16:34 < kanzure> or relatively standard 16:34 < fenn> no 16:34 < fenn> it never was a thing 16:34 < fenn> look around you, just look around. what do you see? 16:34 < kanzure> i mean when's the last time your hardware store ran out of 1/8 inch screws, come on 16:34 < fenn> there is no 1/8 inch screw :\ 16:34 < kanzure> hmm 16:35 < fenn> a #8 screw comes close 16:35 < kanzure> not everyone is going to have the luxury of finding $expensivething in their dumpster for $10 16:36 < fenn> oops i mean #5 screw (which is so rare i've never seen one) 16:37 -!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-9-188.client.mchsi.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:37 < fenn> sure i agree reproducibility is important, but i've also seen a lot of engineers make BOMs that cost way more than they ought to, simply because they buy everything from MSC or digikey or $big_everything_supplier 16:37 < kanzure> fair 16:38 < fenn> also it'd be great if i could pay for access to dumpsters 16:39 < fenn> penny for your trash sir 16:39 -!- archels [charl@unaffiliated/archels] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:40 < kanzure> the way to do that would be garbage auctions 16:40 < fenn> bigger problem is things that *look* standard but turn out to be brand-specific or not quite the standard thing you thought it was or discontinued and nobody makes it 16:40 < kanzure> i guess most heavy equipment suppliers consider those auctions as garbage removal already 16:40 < nmz787_i> you can certainly go visit the local dump 16:40 < kanzure> isn't that what specs are for 16:40 < fenn> i had this problem with fish tubs where some of them were 1mm smaller and the lids would sorta fit but it was awkward or they came loose 16:40 < nmz787_i> it would be strange if your vehicle going out weighed more than coming in 16:41 < fenn> nmz787_i: lots of places have stopped allowing people to do anything but throw trash from their cars, for insurance liability whatever 16:42 < nmz787_i> huh 16:42 < nmz787_i> I remember driving to the dump with a van full of home remodelling waste as a kid 16:43 < fenn> metal scrap yards are more interesting, but also more dangerous 16:43 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@77.88.71.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:44 < kanzure> so is there really no pile of standard stuff that you can reasonably expect to exist for a while, be widely used in various industries, and not be complex as hell to make 16:44 < kanzure> i thought screws were that 16:46 < fenn> yes there are standard parts 16:46 < fenn> but not as many as you'd think 16:47 < fenn> rather, not as many different kinds of parts that are standardized 16:47 < kanzure> what is the "ground" in a pneumatic circuit 16:47 < fenn> simpler things are more likely to be standardized 16:47 < nmz787_i> seems like a reason to be parametric 16:48 < kanzure> making things arbitrarily parametric is not worth it. you have to look through 1000s of catalogs to find compatible parts. not worth it at all. 16:48 < maaku> kanzure: vacuum? vent to atmosphere? 16:48 < fenn> ground is just a signal return path, usually tied to the negative electrode of your battery 16:48 < kanzure> maaku: yeah i'm sorta expecting vent to atmosphere but i have no clue 16:48 < fenn> or literally stuck in the ground in the case of 120V AC wiring 16:49 < kanzure> pneumatic, fenn 16:49 < fenn> oh derp 16:49 < maaku> prob atmosphere, that makes the most sense 16:50 < fenn> ground can also be a mechanical ground, like the machine frame/chassis if you're talking about pistons 16:50 < kanzure> http://www.halloweenforum.com/attachments/tutorials-and-step-by-step/4327d1242432207-my-animatronic-pneumatic-prop-l_51ad5b2cffa349769c269de162650892.jpg 16:51 < fenn> why are you reading about pneumatics? 16:52 < nmz787_i> airpunk 16:52 < kanzure> there's some pneumatics in that synthesizer 16:52 < nmz787_i> pneumopunk 16:52 < kanzure> argon tank to shift phosphoramidites around and the other stuff 16:52 < nmz787_i> that's just for flush I think though 16:52 < kanzure> er then how is it moving stuff around? 16:53 < maaku> amish transhumanism 16:53 < kanzure> *practical* transhumanism 16:55 < kanzure> maaku: btw, http://kk.org/thetechnium/2009/02/amish-hackers-a/ 16:55 < fenn> someone needs to make these things fold up into a compact bar shape http://kreature.org/projects/krefly/nanoquad_5_s.jpg 16:59 < nmz787_i> kanzure: yeah the pressure moves stuff... those lines are valved 16:59 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:01 < nmz787_i> "For the MEBDW system proposed by Su [3], the uncompressed data rate of ten 300-mm wafers per hour (WPH) can be close to 300 Tbps, which would require 30,000 optic fibers operating at 10 Gbps. As a result, the electron-beam layout data must be compressed before being transferred to MEBDW systems. After receiving the data, the electron-beam controllers must perform decompression to generate electron-beam data for the electron-beam 17:01 < nmz787_i> emitters. To achieve high WPH, a very large number of controllers must be equipped in MEBDW systems. Thus, the hardware complexity of electron-beam controller has to be low to reduce total costs." 17:01 < kanzure> argon under pressure? 17:01 < fenn> i'll be impressed when the amish start making solar panels 17:01 < nmz787_i> fenn: can they order kits from ebay? 17:02 < fenn> that would defeat the point 17:02 < nmz787_i> kanzure: umm, yeah I think that was the gas 17:02 < kanzure> argon is a neat trick for that 17:03 < fenn> but i tend to agree, "pneumatics were superior to electrical devices because air was more powerful and durable, outlasting motors which burned out after a few years hard labor." 17:03 < fenn> it's much easier to repair a broken pneumatic motor 17:03 < fenn> but they don't break much 17:04 < fenn> even super cheap chinese pneumatic tools are made to a much higher level of ruggedness and metallurgical quality 17:05 < cluckj> oof 17:05 < cluckj> a nice camembert for lunch, followed by macrolides for mid-day snack 17:06 < fenn> .wik macrolides 17:06 < yoleaux> "The macrolides are a group of drugs (typically antibiotics) whose activity stems from the presence of a macrolide ring, a large macrocyclic lactone ring to which one or more deoxy sugars, usually cladinose and desosamine, may be attached. The lactone rings are usually 14-, 15-, or 16-membered." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macrolides 17:07 < fenn> eat some sauerkraut or yogurt so you don't screw up your biome too much 17:07 < cluckj> yeah I'll fix it once I go off them 17:11 < fenn> so how bout them 18650's 17:11 < fenn> rah rah rah 17:11 < fenn> go lions 17:12 * fenn takes a break from the internet 17:16 < nmz787_i> .wik tomatinase 17:16 < yoleaux> "Tomatine is a glycoalkaloid found in the stems and leaves of tomato plants, which has fungicidal properties. Chemically pure tomatine is a white crystalline solid at standard temperature and pressure. Tomatine as well as the a-glycone derivative Tomatidine have been shown to have multiple health benefits." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomatinase 17:17 < cluckj> wut 17:21 < nmz787_i> .wik cowpea 17:21 < yoleaux> "The cowpea (Vigna unguiculata) is one of several species of the widely cultivated genus Vigna. Four subspecies are recognised, of which three are cultivated (more exist, including V. textilis, V. pubescens, and V. sinensis):" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowpea 17:24 < nmz787_i> "The prohibition against eating food contaminated by flies also makes sense. Perhaps the most interesting is the belief that the ill effects of smoking can be counteracted by hornworm properties; hornworms, incidentally, are among the most important defoliators of tobacco, and so the association is logical. The Navajo, unlike many of the Great Basin inhabiting tribes, did not regularly consume insects, so it is not surprising that 17:24 < nmz787_i> they would hold various beliefs that ingestion was deleterious" 17:25 < nmz787_i> .wik hornworm 17:25 < yoleaux> "Manduca sexta is a moth of the family Sphingidae present through much of the American continent." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornworm 17:27 < nmz787_i> "Nicotine is poisonous to most animals that use muscles to move because nicotine targets the acetylcholine receptor at the neuromuscular junction. However, the tobacco hornworm is capable of metabolizing nicotine from the tobacco plant and using nicotine as a defense against predators. It possesses a gene called cytochrome P450 6B46 (CYP6B46) that converts nicotine into a metabolite. About 0.65% of nicotine metabolites are 17:27 < nmz787_i> transported from the gut to the hemolymph, where they are reconverted to nicotine and released into the air from the tobacco hornworm’s spiracles. The emitted nicotine is used as a way to deter spiders, a practice known as “toxic halitosis.” In one study, tobacco hornworms that fed from nicotine-deficient plants or expressed low levels of CYP6B46 were more susceptible to wolf spider predation (Kumar et al., 2013).[8] " 17:27 < nmz787_i> "Tobacco hornworm caterpillars emit short clicking sounds from their mandibles when they are being attacked. This sound production is believed to be a type of acoustic aposematism, or warning sounds that let predators know that trying to eat them will be troublesome; tobacco hornworms have been observed to thrash and bite predators after producing those clicking sounds. These clicks can be heard at a close distance with a 17:27 < nmz787_i> frequency range of 5 to 50 kHz. The intensity of clicks increases with the number of attacks (Bura et al., 2012).[9]" 17:27 < nmz787_i> 'toxic halitosis' sounds like something a kid in grade school would taunt another with 17:28 < cluckj> something YO MOMMA HAS 17:28 < fenn> the latest "all-natural" vaping craze 17:31 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@46.66.22.4.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:33 < nmz787_i> yep 17:34 < nmz787_i> 'what kind of smoke shop DOESN'T have hornworms???' 17:37 -!- nmz787_i1 [~nmccorkx@134.134.137.73] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:37 -!- nmz787_i1 [~nmccorkx@134.134.137.73] has quit [Client Quit] 17:39 -!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.137.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:50 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@46.66.22.4.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:50 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@8-92.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:56 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:00 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:01 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:10 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:33 < kanzure> what? tapping hives for honey was a problem? http://www.honeyflow.com/ 18:36 < kanzure> "The Flow frame consists of already partly formed honeycomb cells. The bees complete the comb with their wax, fill the cells with honey and cap the cells as usual. When you turn the tool, a bit like a tap, the cells split vertically inside the comb forming channels, allowing the honey to flow down to a sealed trough at the base of the frame and out of the hive, while the bees are practically undisturbed on the comb surface." 18:36 < kanzure> "When the honey has finished draining, you turn the tap again in the upper slot which resets the comb into the original position and allows the bees to chew the wax capping away, and fill it with honey again." 18:37 < fenn> normally you have to pull the frames out, cut the wax off the surface, then spin it in a centrifuge 18:37 < fenn> all the while the bees are trying to kill you 18:38 < fenn> the wax cutting process killa a lot of bees too 18:39 < fenn> also that scrolling comment thing is stupid and annoying and uses lots of cpu even when it's offscreen 18:40 < kanzure> "rotate and make the honey run out" seems kinda obvious? 18:41 < fenn> Flow (tm) 18:42 < fenn> the fact that things like this are a new invention makes me worry 18:42 < kanzure> maybe this was something that was patented for a while, then it ran out, and now someone's using it 18:43 < kanzure> although it doesn't explain why 30 years ago it wasn't obvious 18:43 < fenn> he says it took "a decade" to perfect it 18:43 < kanzure> we're fucked 18:44 < fenn> i wonder what happens to the frames after they are drained.. do the bees just ignore them or do they refill them? 18:45 < kanzure> you have to rotate it back into the original position 18:46 < kanzure> so that the cells have bottoms again 18:46 < fenn> "When the honey has finished draining, you turn the tap again in the upper slot which resets the comb into the original position and allows the bees to chew the wax capping away, and fill it with honey again." 18:46 < fenn> well that's convenient 18:46 < kanzure> so why are they always shaped like doll houses 18:47 < fenn> they aren't, usually hives are just white boxes 18:48 < kanzure> also i don't understand why anyone would want to take hives apart. why not cameras? 18:48 < kanzure> or you can just weigh them 18:48 < fenn> you had to take them apart to get the honey out 18:49 < kanzure> oh bother. 18:51 < fenn> also stuff like making new queens and inspecting for mites or dead bees 18:53 < fenn> a camera is probably a good idea 18:54 < kanzure> you could do a bee counter at the entrances 18:54 < kanzure> you can even test by throwing dead bees past it 18:55 < fenn> no i mean dead bees are a sign of something else wrong that you need to take care of 18:55 < kanzure> well i mean the counter 18:55 < kanzure> for calibration/development 18:56 < fenn> hm ok 18:57 < fenn> bees are ionic liquid and wax is not, so maybe a capacitance sensor could measure the bee fraction of the hive mass? 18:57 < fenn> i'm not sure how conductive honey is 18:58 < fenn> .wa electrical conductivity of honey 18:58 < yoleaux> fenn: Sorry, no result! 18:58 < kanzure> useless 18:59 < fenn> 10-100 mS/m 18:59 < fenn> according to http://www.cazv.cz/2003/anglicka/clanky/zv10-02/Pridal.pdf 19:00 < fenn> .wa electrical conductivity of blood mS/m 19:00 < yoleaux> fenn: Sorry, no result! 19:00 < fenn> worse than useless 19:00 < fenn> "whole blood suspension is of order ~ 50 mS m-1" 19:02 < fenn> is "ichor" really the right word for insects? 19:02 < kanzure> "fluid that is the blood of the gods and/or immortals" 19:02 < kanzure> what a cop out 19:02 < kanzure> which is it! 19:03 < fenn> that is totally what i'm calling my robot's hydraulic fluid 19:06 < fenn> in the last universe "ichor" was the word for insect's circulatory fluid 19:06 < fenn> but here it's called... hemolymph? 19:08 < kanzure> well, plasma. 19:09 < fenn> plasma is the non-cell fraction of blood 19:10 < fenn> "in insects, exchange of oxygen and carbon dioxide occurs in the tracheal system. Hemolymph plays no part in the process in most insects." 19:12 < fenn> "diameters from only a few micrometres up to 0.8 mm. The smallest tubes, tracheoles, penetrate cells" 19:13 < kanzure> what did you want your bug farm for, again? 19:13 < fenn> which bug farm 19:13 < kanzure> giant insects 19:14 < fenn> oh, sexual pleasures etc 19:14 < kanzure> wat? 19:14 < fenn> huh? 19:14 < fenn> i just like rhinoceros beetles 19:15 < fenn> luna moths are pretty cool too 19:15 < kanzure> you are sexually attracted to insects? 19:15 < fenn> no, that was a joke 19:15 < kanzure> i don't know what's real anymore 19:15 < fenn> i don't have any rational reason to want giant insects 19:16 < kanzure> food? 19:16 < fenn> i do think there are good economic arguments for giant crickets as a food 19:16 < fenn> and environmental 19:16 < fenn> many have tried and failed to popularize the concept 19:17 < fenn> "terraprawns" 19:18 < fenn> dried wax moths are available for a not totally unreasonable price, but it's not at all competitive with traditional food 19:18 < fenn> also i think they maybe are not intended for human consumption (pet lizard food or smth) 19:19 < fenn> insects have short life cycles and can reach reasonably large biomass so maybe a good platform for production of biologics 19:20 < fenn> i guess fungus is easier to deal with 19:20 < kanzure> cell cultures seem to crash much more easily than bigger things 19:20 < fenn> well cell cultures have no immune system to speak of 19:21 < fenn> and usually the product is niche enough to be expensive and allow sterile production methods 19:21 < fenn> but free range engineered crickets would cost a lot less 19:22 < kanzure> honey protein expression? 19:22 < fenn> maybe vanadium binding protein can be modified to adsorb uranium or other elements from seawater, and filter feeders can be used for "mining" 19:22 < fenn> "bio-leaching" 19:23 < fenn> .wik bio leaching 19:23 < yoleaux> "Bioleaching is the extraction of metals from their ores through the use of living organisms." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioleaching 19:23 < kanzure> lots of "bio leaching" and "bio mining" last year http://diyhpl.us/wiki/dna/projects/#igem-2014 19:24 < fenn> yeah but i dont see how bacteria or yeast could scale 19:24 < fenn> i only see one entry http://2014.igem.org/Team:HNU_China/Project 19:24 < kanzure> i've thought about that before, and my one idea is giant bioreactors with emulsions/bubbles, regularly sort them and feed them 19:24 < fenn> .title 19:24 < yoleaux> Team:HNU China/Project - 2014.igem.org 19:24 < fenn> bah 19:24 < kanzure> the search term is remediation on that page 19:25 -!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-9-188.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:25 < fenn> wow ok there are quite a few projects on bioremediation 19:28 < fenn> this is a good wiki page 19:32 -!- Guest88186 is now known as altersid 19:36 < fenn> why am i not subscribed to enzymaticsynthesis 19:37 < kanzure> because you hate email 19:39 < fenn> apparently "show desktop site" doesn't actually show the version you'd get on a desktop 19:39 < fenn> i have no idea if i'm subscribed or not, but there doesn't seem to be any way to subscribe 19:41 < kanzure> "No new invitations were sent. One person is already a member of the group. The provided email address might be a primary, secondary or alternate email address of this person." 19:41 < fenn> i think i was subscribed already and the UI is just dumb 19:41 < kanzure> actually this says you joined in 2012 19:41 < kanzure> yes 19:41 < kanzure> yes the ui is awful 19:46 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:46 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:46 < fenn> did anyone figure out a good RFID/barcode inventory tracking system for hackerspaces? 19:47 < fenn> i have no particular desire to reinvent this if it exists and works well 19:47 < kanzure> i don't think so, or if they did then they never told the hackerspaces mailing list about it 19:47 < kanzure> there's a lot of really lame implementations 19:48 < fenn> looks like they only use rfid for door locks, which i couldn't care less about 19:48 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xngcbaupydytrvgt] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 19:48 < fenn> i want to track whether tools are in a place or not, and when they left and who was there when they left 19:49 < fenn> also general stuff tracking like "how many X do i have" 19:49 < fenn> or "where is X" 19:50 < fenn> maybe i do need to write this 19:51 < kanzure> er, what happens when the data is all wrong? 19:51 < fenn> that's what the RFID is for 19:52 < fenn> commercial tags are like $0.05 in quantity 1000 19:53 < fenn> hrm. "A passive 96-bit EPC inlay (chip and antenna mounted on a substrate) costs from 7 to 15 U.S. cents. If the tag is embedded in a thermal transfer label on which companies can print a bar code, the price rises to 15 cents and up. Low- and high-frequency tags tend to cost a little more." 19:54 < fenn> no date on that article 19:54 < fenn> the problem is that readers for that kind of tag are expensive 19:54 < fenn> things may have changed since i last researched this 19:56 < fenn> for components it may be easiest to tag a bag with RFID and weigh it periodically 19:56 < fenn> the count will be accurate enough 19:57 < kanzure> what about venom expression 19:57 < fenn> if the scale has an rfid reader built in you can run a script to auto update the quantity in that bag; as long as there are no indiana joneses adding weights to the bag it will be an accurate count 19:58 < fenn> putting something on a scale doesn't take long 19:58 < fenn> venom? 19:58 < kanzure> easy to bottle 19:59 < fenn> er, what about it 19:59 < fenn> as a project? 19:59 < kanzure> well, with insects your options are basically honey or silk expression 19:59 < kanzure> and i'm not really sure about spinning down silk to extract other stuff 19:59 < fenn> venom producing organisms already do an alright job of producing venom? 19:59 < kanzure> exactly 19:59 < kanzure> you could probably have them express other things in venom 19:59 < fenn> oh ok 20:00 < fenn> bacteria would be easier for short peptides, but iirc many venoms are circular peptides and that may not be possible in bacteria 20:00 < kanzure> surely there's a bunch of junk in venom? 20:01 < fenn> .wik cyclosporine 20:01 < yoleaux> "Ciclosporin (INN/BAN) (pronounced /ˌsaɪkləˈspɔrɪn/); cyclosporine (USAN); cyclosporin (former BAN); or ciclosporin A, cyclosporine A, or cyclosporin A (often shortened to CsA) is an immunosuppressant drug widely used in organ transplantation to prevent rejection." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclosporine 20:01 < fenn> .wik amantin 20:01 < yoleaux> "The Atebubu-Amantin District is one of the twenty-two (22) districts of the Brong Ahafo Region of Ghana. Its capital is Atebubu." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atebubu-Amantin_District 20:01 < fenn> .wik amatoxin 20:01 < yoleaux> "Amatoxins are a subgroup of at least eight toxic compounds found in several genera of poisonous mushrooms, most notably Amanita phalloides and several other members of the genus Amanita, as well as some Conocybe, Galerina and Lepiota mushroom species." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amatoxin 20:02 < fenn> hrmph 20:02 < fenn> .wik amanitin 20:02 < yoleaux> "Amanitin may refer to several related amatoxins:" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanitin 20:02 < fenn> how can you go wrong with "destroying angel" 20:02 < kanzure> tree sap could work? 20:03 < fenn> seems like antivenom would be more useful 20:04 < fenn> currently it's laboriously produced by torturing furry creatures and then storing their blood extract in a refrigerator, with constant shortages for entire countries 20:04 < kanzure> more useful than generic protein expression? 20:05 < fenn> the problem is there are so many venoms 20:05 < fenn> they actually do triage with antivenom in the USA because of the shortages 20:06 < kanzure> hm i wonder if anyone has a list or table of high-capacity expression vectors 20:07 < kanzure> surely someone has looked into the theoretical capacity of caterpillar silk versus goat milk expression of random recombinant proteins 20:08 < kanzure> versus lifecycle length 20:08 < kanzure> jonano is trolling #bitcoin at the moment 20:08 < kanzure> ("the ebola virus of cryonics") 20:08 < fenn> good for him? 20:09 < kanzure> well i'm trying to counter his bullshit :/ 20:09 < fenn> what are the units of "expression capacity" 20:09 < kanzure> liters? 20:09 < fenn> no 20:09 < kanzure> :( 20:10 < fenn> grams or activity per ... dollar? per hour*m^3 of lab? 20:11 < fenn> obviously a single goat will express more than a single bacterium 20:11 < kanzure> well whatever it is, probably more biased towards lifecycle things and difficulty of injecting plasmids or long-term expression or somtehing... if it takes 100 years for a tree to start expressing polymerase, no thanks. 20:11 < kanzure> *start expressing polymerase in tree serum 20:11 < fenn> lifecycle is a different parameter 20:13 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:13 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:14 < fenn> hum maybe NFC phones can read RFID tags? 20:15 < fenn> that would be cool 20:17 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:24 < fenn> new project, a setup that would automatically 3d scan and weigh and photograph objects on various neutral backgrounds and associate that with an RFID tag 20:28 < kanzure> concrete cnc is more practical 20:30 < fenn> ok maybe 3d scanning is overkill 20:30 < fenn> there still don't seem to be any good camera-only open source implementations 20:32 < kanzure> also what was the status of the dlp stuff... something about optics, but then that asshole on youtube basically did everything without non-conventional projector lenses. 20:32 < fenn> i don't get why people are still using laser line scanners 20:33 < kanzure> like why did someone recommend using a microscope 20:33 < kanzure> oh right, the youtube demonstration was not high resolution 20:36 < kanzure> blah 20:44 < fenn> 10 minutes to do a 3d scan seems unreasonable 20:45 < fenn> 400 steps per rev at 15 frames per second is 26 seconds 20:45 < fenn> motion blur shouldnt be a problem with enough light 20:46 < fenn> 10W LEDs are stupidly bright 20:48 < fenn> looking at https://github.com/mvhenten/pylatscan "Python Laser Triangulation Scanning" 20:57 < kanzure> https://soundcloud.com/dj-elsloo/elsloo-digitally-importeds-15th-anniversary-progressive-special-2014 21:15 < kanzure> http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/the-correct-strategy-of-bitcoin-entrepreneurship/ 21:21 < kanzure> "I wonder how much of this is AK-47s. It is arguably the most successful [weapon]." "Not very much. They licensed it to China." 21:22 < kanzure> so ridiculous 21:24 < fenn> not licensed, just produced 21:27 < nmz787> .title http://www.macpod.net/electronics/lasershark/lasershark.php 21:27 < yoleaux> Macpod LLC: Lasershark - Intro (Friggin sharks with lasers) 21:27 < nmz787> https://github.com/macpod/lasershark_hardware 21:28 < nmz787> for laser galvos 21:30 < fenn> i'm thinking cardboard with laser printed templates is a decent compromise between garbage bodging and full-on fab lab laser cutters and cnc routers 21:30 < fenn> optimized to be cut with a craft knife 21:31 < fenn> less capability though; you can't make gears or anything remotely precise 21:31 < fenn> "This hardware is released under the GPL V2" copyfail 21:32 < fenn> what does it do 21:34 < fenn> USB +-10V galvanometer driver 21:34 < fenn> with a USB mini connector :( 21:36 < fenn> so it substitutes massive hardware complexity for trivial software complexity? great 21:45 < nmz787> mini is the shit 21:45 < nmz787> micro has no through-holes for mountin 21:56 < fenn> why not just go full-size B 21:56 < fenn> with o-rings and cannon plugs 21:57 < fenn> better yet if it's machined from solid blocks of titanium 21:58 < fenn> why is there no micro ethernet connector 22:21 < nmz787> i've had phone micros fail on me a few times, no thanks for lab equipment 22:23 < delinquentme> Im looking for free market research materials 22:23 < delinquentme> anyone know where I might find such a thing? 22:24 < kanzure> united states government does lots of surveys and data collection 22:25 < JayDugger> Try US census data. 22:31 < kanzure> http://www.genetic-programming.com/humancompetitive.html 22:32 < kanzure> "Synthesis of a mixed analog-digital variable capacitor circuit" 22:32 < kanzure> "Synthesis of a cubic function generator" 22:32 < kanzure> this is a lame page... i doubt anyone ever argued that circuits were impossible to generate with genetic algorithms. 22:48 < nmz787> no, but this is proof they do 22:48 < nmz787> s/do/can/ 22:49 < kanzure> whowhat? 22:50 < nmz787> that page seems like it will be particularly useful actually, especially the circuitry routing/layout stuff 22:51 < kanzure> genetic algorithms are just one of many search implementations 22:51 < kanzure> the useful part is not the search algorithm here at all 22:54 < nmz787> yeah but it's /a/ search algorithm specifically for doing shit i'm interested in and working on 22:55 < nmz787> it is good to know what exists 22:58 < kanzure> nmz787: fenn and i worked in this lab for a while http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/campbell/ 23:02 < nmz787> this doesn't seem to load http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/campbell/A%20generic%20scheme%20for%20graph%20topology%20optimization.pdf 23:04 < kanzure> hmm. 23:04 < nmz787> 0 bytes 23:05 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:06 < kanzure> yes that is problem 23:06 < kanzure> hm. 23:14 < nmz787> http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/A_generic_scheme_for_graph_topology_optimization.pdf 23:14 < nmz787> you can cp that 23:14 < nmz787> or mv it 23:16 < nmz787> juri_: you should come to the brlcad-side :) 23:24 < kanzure> https://medium.com/@DanielleMorrill/startup-ceo-seeks-executive-assistant-4a209da7f0b1 23:24 < kanzure> that only costs $85k/year? 23:24 < kanzure> or wait.. maybe 85k is high. i'm trying to decide. :/ 23:26 < nmz787> "The Extended Pattern Search technology for product layout has matured to the point of being commercialized by DesignAdvance™ Systems, Inc., a spin off from Carnegie Mellon University. DesignAdvance has extended the basic technology to layout 2D Printed Circuit Boards PCBs, its first commercial product, and is in the process of developing a commercial version of EPS for general 3D application to mechanical and electromechanical products." 23:26 < nmz787> shit, that's what I need to do 23:27 < kanzure> i think octopart has been doing that lately 23:27 < kanzure> not sure. if they aren't, they should be. 23:28 < nmz787> I didn't think so 23:28 < nmz787> but maybe 23:28 < nmz787> i haven't checked really 23:28 < nmz787> i know they have a blog 23:35 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:48 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:48 -!- agentsmith2 [~lolzilla@cpe-24-165-87-208.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Sat Feb 21 00:00:00 2015