--- Log opened Tue Mar 03 00:00:10 2015 00:07 -!- zadock [~zadock@muscalu.tuiasi.ro] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:10 < maaku> justanotheruser: there are (multiple) arbitrary definitions, yes 00:10 < maaku> well actually there's probably a physical distinction where it transitions from being atmosphere-like to being exosphere-like 00:11 < maaku> i'm not sure where that is for the Earth.. 02:12 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:52 -!- zadock [~zadock@muscalu.tuiasi.ro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:54 -!- zadock [~zadock@muscalu.tuiasi.ro] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:57 -!- _TK_ [~TK@82.131.67.12.cable.starman.ee] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:04 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:10 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-196-120-88.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:11 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-146-140-4.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:12 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:32 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:33 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:47 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-123-103.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:02 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:03 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@static.35.151.76.144.clients.your-server.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:03 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@static.35.151.76.144.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Changing host] 04:03 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:50 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:14 -!- drewbot_ [~cinch@ec2-54-234-75-66.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:19 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-146-140-4.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:20 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:58 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:01 -!- Panko_ [~Panko@p2216-ipngn100104sinnagasak.nagasaki.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:11 < kanzure> yeah space fog might work better 06:24 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:36 < chris_99> might be of interest to you peeps, just found http://booksc.org/ 06:36 < yoleaux> 05:12Z chris_99: I think I may have been talking to you about this type of thing for some reason... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker_noise via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock-in_amplifier 06:36 < yoleaux> 05:15Z chris_99: ah, yeah I mentioned it on 2-27 incorrectly referencing it as 'johnson noise' re: pH electrode sensing methods.... but it should be 'pink noise' (1/freq sampled at noise... so lower freq more noise) 07:06 < kanzure> http://jacquesmattheij.com/computers-are-brain-amplifiers 07:07 < kanzure> paperbot: http://iopscience.iop.org/1741-2552/12/1/016014 07:07 < kanzure> .title 07:07 < yoleaux> PEDOT–CNT coated electrodes stimulate retinal neurons at low voltage amplitudes and low charge densities - Abstract - Journal of Neural Engineering - IOPscience 07:08 < kanzure> space fog would actually work quite well.... you would use sterile metal rods a few mm long, machined so that a drop of water or emulsifier can maintain surface tension in the center of the rod. then use lasers to push around the rods and keep them all separated. 07:38 -!- yttri_inpri4phni [~yttri_inp@66.173.231.73] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:47 < paperbot> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/PEDOTCNT%20coated%20electrodes%20stimulate%20retinal%20neurons%20at%20low%20voltage%20amplitudes%20and%20low%20charge%20densities.pdf 07:47 < kanzure> huh. 07:57 < fenn> in zero gravity? 07:57 < fenn> ("space fog") 07:57 * fenn reads back 07:58 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 07:58 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:59 -!- Boscop [~me@unaffiliated/boscop] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:59 -!- Boscop [~me@unaffiliated/boscop] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:00 -!- Proteus [~Proteus@unaffiliated/proteus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:01 -!- Proteus [~Proteus@unaffiliated/proteus] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:04 < fenn> 1) if using it for storage, it would be a pain to find and retrieve the exact droplet you want 2) you'd have to maintain 100% humidity or the droplets would instantly evaporate 3) you have to maintain uniform temperature or water will migrate between droplets, and some of them will disappear or get too large for surface tension to hold them together 4) that's a lot of laser power and computation 08:05 < fenn> .g orion's arm ocean ultimate 08:05 < yoleaux> http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/4802ae8325941 08:05 < fenn> not that 08:06 < eudoxia> you want the article about the ocean planet? 08:06 < eudoxia> .g orion's arm oceanus ultimata 08:06 < yoleaux> http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/490b3010a681a 08:06 < eudoxia> derp, not a planet 08:07 < fenn> yeah 08:08 < fenn> anyway, encapsulating your droplets in an impermeable membrane doesn't seem so hard, if you're going to all this trouble anyway 08:08 -!- zadock [~zadock@muscalu.tuiasi.ro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:09 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-123-103.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:09 < kanzure> right.. 08:09 < kanzure> there are many materials that the droplets can be made out of that would be less problematic than water 08:10 < kanzure> i feel like there was a problem i once knew about where that amount of parallelism would have been useful 08:11 < kanzure> probably some selection/evolution problem. 08:15 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 08:32 < archels> any suggestions for a Linux based C/C++ debugger? 08:33 < archels> I'm sure gdb does what I want but ugh learning curve 08:35 < archels> haha, kdbg crashes when I try to run it 08:35 < archels> physician, heal thyself 08:41 < kanzure> gdb is worth learning 08:46 < archels> you might be right 08:54 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:55 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:59 < dingo> kdbg is purposely inept 08:59 < dingo> linus does not accept contributions to make it better 09:00 < dingo> i can find you the link maybe, he's like "Programming kernels hould be hard, if you don't like it, then you shouldn't be doing it" or some such 09:01 < dingo> https://lwn.net/2000/0914/a/lt-debugger.php3 09:03 < archels> haha, sounds like Linus alright 09:03 < dingo> openbsd's kernel debugger has a game of hangman using the symbols table 09:04 < dingo> pretty great fun after a panic and you give up caring, you got a game to play ;p 09:06 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@c-71-225-211-210.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:07 < archels> ah, forgetting to set function return value for std::vector or std::string types causes a segfault 09:14 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:16 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:19 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:22 < kanzure> "In 1953, Brillouin derived a general equation[22] stating that the changing of an information bit value requires at least kT ln(2) energy. This is the same energy as the work Leó Szilárd's engine produces in the idealistic case. In his book,[23] he further explored this problem concluding that any cause of this bit value change (measurement, decision about a yes/no question, erasure, display, etc.) will require the same amount of energy." 09:24 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:31 -!- yttri_inpri4phni [~yttri_inp@66.173.231.73] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:46 -!- Shannon [~Shannon@unaffiliated/shannon] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:51 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:07 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:10 < kanzure> "The twist to which I refer, which I first ran into in a book by Dorian Sagan, claims that there are reasons to think that the Law has a positive, shaping, quality to it, just like Natural Selection. The idea is that the Second Law selects processes that destroy order faster, such that there is a meaningful sense in which the interesting features of the universe, from the production of atoms to the evolution of life to the development of ... 10:10 < kanzure> ... technological civilization, can be explained as being actively selected to dial up the momentum of entropy." 10:10 < kanzure> maaku: ^ 10:10 < kanzure> (i don't really like interpretations of the second law that talk about (dis)order, but whatever) 10:11 < maaku> yeah "order" is anthropromorphizing a bit 10:13 < kanzure> i suppose i should email him back and tell him he should not be surprised that natural selection works 10:13 < kanzure> "did you think it was magic?" 10:17 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@5351D0D2.cm-6-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:17 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:31 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:42 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:47 < justanotheruser> kanzure: are you the one that hates IDEs? 10:50 < kanzure> hmm maybe? 11:12 < nmz787> archels: I have been using this shortcut-command recently just to log backtraces via gdb https://blog.cryptomilk.org/2010/12/23/gdb-backtrace-to-file/ 11:16 < maaku> justanotheruser: i don't think he's the only one 11:16 < justanotheruser> maaku: yeah 11:16 < justanotheruser> I just don't understand 11:16 < justanotheruser> Unless you think some components are useful and not the whole IDE... 11:17 < justanotheruser> I mean, when I define a function in the header, why not press a button and make it appear in the body too 11:17 < maaku> justanotheruser: no, i want all the functionality of the IDE. i just want it in composable small programs rather than a monolithic GUI 11:17 < justanotheruser> oh sure 11:17 < justanotheruser> I'm trying to get comfortable with a certain text editors extension 11:17 * justanotheruser coughs 11:18 < justanotheruser> emacs 11:18 < maaku> i have three times in my life tried to convert to emacs, and thrice been thwarted by its alien nature 11:19 < justanotheruser> did your left hand hurt? 11:20 < maaku> almost as much as my brain 11:21 < maaku> i prefer vi's multi-mode interface 11:21 < maaku> where you just hit escape and then you don't have to be constantly holding down C- or M- 11:21 < maaku> but i wish it was as extensible as emacs-lisp... *sigh* 11:23 < justanotheruser> theres evil mode 11:25 < nmz787> i am seriously starting to think about how to type with my mind 11:26 < nmz787> I think there should be some way to corellate audio data with neural recordings of 'hearing that song/audio in your head' 11:26 < nmz787> i'd be fine 'speaking' (only in my head) to type 11:27 < fenn> there's subvocalization EMG 11:27 < nmz787> there would be certain restricted keywords like GOTO for going to a specific line etc 11:27 < maaku> nmz787: you do not need to go that far. your mouth/throat muscles make micro adjustments to the voice in your head. 11:27 < maaku> what fenn said 11:29 < nmz787> that can't work terribly well though, or reliably... like it fails when i develop neuromuscular disease 11:29 < nmz787> and i am not too good at vocalizing all the tracks of music I can arrange and hear in my head 11:29 < maaku> i hope you dont plan on developing a neuromuscular disease 11:29 < nmz787> beethoven just comes out of my mouth like 'do do do doo doo doo, do do do doo doo doo, da da da dee da da da' 11:30 < nmz787> that isn't what it really sounds like in my head 11:30 < maaku> nmz787: i think the effect is much more subtle than you think. it's been successfully used on unwitting subjects to extract passwords 11:30 < nmz787> or sweet home alabama 'do do dee do, do do dee do, doo doo... duh na na na na nahhh' 11:31 < nmz787> yeah but passwords are made of letters or phoenemic characters 11:31 < nmz787> probably 11:31 < kanzure> i have never seen any actual productive typing interface other than finger things 11:31 < nmz787> an alternative application of what I want would be to create music just by composing it in your head 11:32 < kanzure> well how the fuck else do you compose? 11:32 < kanzure> wtf? 11:32 < nmz787> i can never reach my father's level of physcial-data-export to an instrument (he's been practicing since he was a kid... I know how to type)... but I can 'hear' all kinds of cool compositions, but I can't reasonably ever export these 11:32 < maaku> The setup IIRC was putting the equipment on a subject and telling them to buy something on ebay, obstensibly to do advertising research to make it blinded. Really they were after the paypal password, and it worked. 11:32 < nmz787> kanzure: most people do it with their fingers, in stages... 11:33 < nmz787> it starts in the mind 11:33 < nmz787> then goes to sheet musics, tablature, or some MIDI file 11:33 < maaku> Although it's a good point that maybe it only worked for spelling things out (S-P-E-L-L etc.) 11:33 < nmz787> then from there it is played by fingers or lips or tongue or computer synth 11:37 < nmz787> the EMG data and algorithms could be useful though to compare against EEG data or something else 11:37 < nmz787> I am thinking you need multiple detectors to detect phase differences and essentially localize signal to volumes of the brain 11:38 < nmz787> but I've also not seem an eeg with something like an RF network analyzer as the data collection engine 11:38 < nmz787> in all the stuff i've read they all just assume the signal freq of the brain is low 11:45 < kanzure> ugh 11:46 < kanzure> "signal to volumes of the brain" 11:46 < kanzure> this is what spawned 60 years of boring eeg research that went nowhere 11:46 < kanzure> next you're going to tell me that you believe in brain waves 11:50 < nmz787> hmm? 11:50 < nmz787> action potentials will cause radiation 11:50 < nmz787> electrons move, shit shifts around and photons get pooped out 11:51 < nmz787> they can blur, interfere, etc 12:23 -!- Zinglon [~Zinglon@5351D0D2.cm-6-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Chicks dig it] 12:55 -!- justanot1eruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:56 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 12:56 -!- justanot1eruser is now known as justanotheruser 13:18 -!- _TK_ [~TK@82.131.67.12.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:55 -!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:01 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@c-71-225-211-210.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:07 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:35 < archels> nmz787: thing is, the rate of change of current tends to be pretty low 14:35 < archels> so Maxwell's equations tend to simplify to magnetostatics and electrostatics 14:39 -!- Shannon_ [~Shannon@unaffiliated/shannon] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:41 -!- Shannon [~Shannon@unaffiliated/shannon] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:42 < archels> (also thanks for that impressive-looking alias; don't think I'm quite ready for that yet) 15:05 -!- zadock [~zadock@81.180.210.87] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:11 -!- augur_ [~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:25 -!- augur [~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:27 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:35 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:51 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oytnhgeakwpkbjvk] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:02 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-49-240-84.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:12 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:36 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-49-240-84.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:51 < justanotheruser> paperbot: https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=7533 16:51 < paperbot> http://libgen.info/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1145%2F7531.7533 17:35 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 17:38 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:58 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oytnhgeakwpkbjvk] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 18:36 < kanzure> bloop 19:05 < justanotheruser> blip 19:05 -!- augur [~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:05 -!- augur [~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:07 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:07 -!- Shannon [~Shannon@unaffiliated/shannon] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:08 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:11 -!- Shannon_ [~Shannon@unaffiliated/shannon] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:48 -!- Shannon [~Shannon@unaffiliated/shannon] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:29 -!- paperbot [~paperbot@unaffiliated/kanzure/bot/paperbot] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:30 -!- paperbot [~paperbot@unaffiliated/kanzure/bot/paperbot] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:34 < nmz787> archels: do you have references to that comment about low rate of change of current? is that just from single neuron measurements? I really want to see someone that hooked up like 50 oscilloscopes or network analyzers to electrodes gelled to someones head while the person replayed some common audio sound byte. 21:37 < nmz787> kanzure: you could fund that study, then distribute the oscilloscopes to hackerspaces of the country/world 21:37 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:39 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:40 < kanzure> for that i would need to have more than a negative opinion about the benefits of eeg 21:51 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:52 -!- Viper168_ is now known as Viper168 21:59 -!- zadock [~zadock@81.180.210.87] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:11 < nmz787> http://www.engadget.com/2015/03/03/behold-the-first-photo-of-light-in-both-wave-and-particle-forms/ 22:11 < nmz787> open http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2015/150302/ncomms7407/full/ncomms7407.html 22:11 < nmz787> Simultaneous observation of the quantization and 22:11 < nmz787> the interference pattern of a plasmonic near-field 22:32 -!- Quashie_ is now known as Quashie 22:41 -!- DumpsterD1ver [~loki@50.242.254.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:56 -!- DumpsterD1ver [~loki@50.242.254.38] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:15 -!- zadock [~zadock@muscalu.tuiasi.ro] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:45 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:46 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Wed Mar 04 00:00:11 2015