--- Log opened Sat May 09 00:00:06 2015
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07:42 < CaptHindsight> anyone have a list of countries that typically have earlier access to new types of medical device, methods, treatments etc?
07:42 < kanzure> look at the commerce export control list. they have a list of countries that are not allowed to receive certain technologies.
07:56 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: I consider the USA to be one of the late ones in getting new tech approved...
07:58 < CaptHindsight> I was looking for a list or a report on countries that have FDA equivalents that are influenced more by medical progress than by special interests and corporations trying to keep the status quo
08:00 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnCKGI7Fnm8&t=8m20s
08:00 < yoleaux> Germany forging technology - YouTube
08:04 < CaptHindsight> I thought that someone here would have found the end runs around the FDA and similar by going through nations in Africa or South America
08:11 < kanzure> ted chiang story http://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/exhalation/
08:11 < kanzure> CaptHindsight: there are a bunch of countries that are popular for medical tourism
08:14 < kanzure> specifically, i mean you should be looking for "medical tourism" destinations
08:24 <@fenn> cool video, certainly looks like an automatable process
08:24 < kanzure> http://www.seeedstudio.com/wiki/Grove_-_433MHz_Simple_RF_Link_Kit
08:26 <@fenn> there are few nations with highly competent health care systems that aren't also subject to corruption of regulatory capture from their strong healthcare industries
08:27 <@fenn> thailand is the only one i can think of atm
08:28 < kanzure> india has been making some progress at least on patents
08:29 <@fenn> progress in which direction
08:29 < kanzure> positie
08:29 < kanzure> positive
08:29 <@fenn> that doesn't help
08:29 < kanzure> they will often slap down a drug manufacturer and force them to price their drugs very low
08:30 < kanzure> "what! but you wouldn't be uploading the person.." "i don't think you understand just how much i'm willing to cut to make things work"
08:31 <@fenn> are these scenes from your screenplay
08:32 <@fenn> mad doktor leitl is confronted in his laboratory by professor hughes
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08:33 < kanzure> both from my forthcoming screenplay and from yesterday logs
08:34 < kanzure> also, dr. overkill is in the room too
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09:12 < MrHindsight> fenn: I was aware of the low cost medicines in Thailand. How are they on medical devices?
09:13 < MrHindsight> say someone has a new piece of diagnostic equipment and just wants to make it available to the world vs having it sat on by regulatory bodies
09:14 < MrHindsight> selling it for other than medial use is one way but most docs won't touch it with a 10ft pole
09:14 < MrHindsight> medial/medical
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09:40 < kanzure> pva film pattern transfer to 3d objects https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlUhPrAqiY0
09:43 < kanzure> doctors often wont touch things even if it is legal, so you're safe there
09:45 < MrHindsight> heh
09:46 < MrHindsight> kanzure: there is also flexigraphics, it uses a flexible film that gets pulled by vacuum over the part and then sublimates the image onto the parts
09:47 < kanzure> vacuum seems like it might be more precise
09:47 < kanzure> but water is easier to setup
09:47 < MrHindsight> I've been doing it with inkjet direct to non planar parts for year with a multiaxis inkjet
09:47 < MrHindsight> year/years
09:47 < MrHindsight> the problem with water is the throughput speeds
09:48 <@fenn> neat
09:49 <@fenn> MrHindsight: more info on that multiaxis inkjet? what's it called? link?
09:49 < MrHindsight> http://onelabs.com/maxp00.htm
09:50 < MrHindsight> multi-axis inkjet, similar to multi-axis CNC, only with deposition nozzles, printheads, etc vs cutting tools
09:55 <@fenn> seems like a robot arm would be more appropriate for this sort of task
09:55 <@fenn> i can't really see much from the image thumbnails on that page
09:55 < MrHindsight> fenn: this one has <5um repeatability  http://ibin.co/219WOZD6IsUv
09:55 < MrHindsight> it depends on the part geometry
09:56 < MrHindsight> robot arms aren't that accurate
09:56 < MrHindsight> ^^ 5-axis inkjet ~300mm^3 print area
09:57 <@fenn> that's tiny
09:57 <@fenn> this is for making figurines?
09:57 < MrHindsight> yeah for smaller parts
09:57 < MrHindsight> cell phone cases, laptops etc
09:58 < MrHindsight> you can print electronics with them as well
09:58 < MrHindsight> all with fluids
09:58 <@fenn> metal based inks or just etch mask?
09:58 < MrHindsight> all sorts
09:59 < MrHindsight> metals, metal oxides, polymer semiconductors, dielectrics etc
09:59 < MrHindsight> we can print circuit boards all from just fluids as well
10:00 < MrHindsight> conductors, substrates, multilayer and many components
10:00 <@fenn> interesting
10:00 < MrHindsight> resistors, capacitors etc
10:00 <@fenn> can you do BGA fanout?
10:00 < MrHindsight> no problem
10:00 <@fenn> why isn't this more common knowledge? like hobbyists always want to do custom BGA stuff
10:00 < MrHindsight> it's more like multiwire than multilayer since you can print without layers
10:01 < MrHindsight> ^^ than machine is $200K
10:01 < MrHindsight> than/ that
10:01 <@fenn> yeah but you don't need the machine, just the print head
10:01 <@fenn> 2D circuit boards are fine for most things
10:01 < MrHindsight> it's been on the website for years
10:02 <@fenn> first i've heard of it, and i pay attention to this sort of thing
10:02 < MrHindsight> most hobbyists have trouble with a cnc glue guns vs tech like this
10:02 < MrHindsight> -a
10:03 < MrHindsight> we mount lasers and ebeam heads on them as well
10:03 < MrHindsight> so you can print features sub-micron
10:04 < MrHindsight> 2 photon polymerization, focused ion beam etc
10:04 < MrHindsight> ^^ runs linuxcnc
10:04 <@fenn> what do you even use that for?
10:04 <@fenn> sub-micron features i mean
10:04 < MrHindsight> micro and nano machines
10:06 <@fenn> does your lab have a webpage?
10:06 < MrHindsight> graft proteins onto polymer nano machines, synthetic virus or small sensors that won't trigger immune reactions
10:06 < MrHindsight> that was the link for one of the labs
10:07 < MrHindsight> hope to be making DNA sequencers and printers soon
10:07 <@fenn> oh i see the sewer penguin
10:08 < MrHindsight> old coreboot logo, when it was still LinuxBIOS
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10:10 < MrHindsight> a lot of our work and tools can be applied to bio
10:11 < MrHindsight> thats what interests me here
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10:16 <@fenn> friend of mine started a company making large array sensors using off the shelf camera chips with adsorbed biomolecules such as antibodies
10:17 <@fenn> the idea is you can detect the difference in surface plasmon resonance frequency when the antibody has attached to its target
10:17 < MrHindsight> there's lost of things in Bio that don't seem to even have been touched
10:17 < MrHindsight> lost/lots
10:18 < MrHindsight> <-- typo king today
10:18 < MrHindsight> i saw lots of things on kanzure's list that are pretty easy to slap together
10:19 < MrHindsight> fenn: image sensors are really low cost now
10:19 <@fenn> sure, and most people would benefit from eating more fish and vitamin C and exercising, but they don't
10:19 <@fenn> there's like a willpower deficit or something
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10:20 < MrHindsight> bbl
10:20 <@fenn> magnesium
10:20  * fenn mutters
10:22 <@fenn> "Very high accuracy systems with resolutions to 0.2nm" hard to believe
10:23 <@fenn> anyway i am jealous
10:27 <@fenn> if i had all those tools available i would probably just frolic around basking in the awesomeness and never get anything done
10:32 < kanzure> willpower deficit is because i am hogging all of it
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10:42 < CaptHindsight> fenn: the piezo positioners are good down to a few angstroms
10:42 < CaptHindsight> not high speed, but you can make moves that small
10:43 < CaptHindsight> fenn:   http://www.pi-usa.us/products/Nanopositioning_Scanning_Stages/index.php
10:47 < CaptHindsight> http://www.pi-usa.us/products/Nanopositioning_Scanning_Stages/index.php#SAPN  P-712 Low-Profile OEM Piezo Stage / Scanner
10:48 < CaptHindsight> the P-722 and 752 is down to Resolution <0.1 nm
10:49 <@fenn> the copy made it seem like it was also 7mx3m table size and 3m/s velocity 2g acceleration as well as 0.2nm resolution
10:49 <@fenn> s/copy/text/
10:51 <@fenn> there are hybrid systems with linear motors and piezo stages but i'm told it's fiddly in practice
10:51 <@fenn> for machine tool vibration cancelling at least
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10:54  * fenn assimilates some nuts and bolts
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10:54 < CaptHindsight> fenn: that is how it's done
10:54 < CaptHindsight> much depends on your understanding of machine building and science
10:55 < CaptHindsight> take the variations of FDM printers for example
10:55 < CaptHindsight> they are all over the place in terms of design skill
10:55 <@fenn> gantry routers are even worse
10:55 < CaptHindsight> heh
10:56 <@fenn> FDM is low force so frame design doesn't matter as much
10:56 < CaptHindsight> bbl  lunch
10:56 <@fenn> a simple thermal enclosure would do wonders for most FDM designs
10:57 < CaptHindsight> and understanding of adhesion
10:57 < CaptHindsight> surface tension vs temp  :)
10:57 < CaptHindsight> but now you sound like an "overbuilder"  :)
10:58 <@fenn> i'm more of a parallel kinematics nutjob
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11:00 <@fenn> use the force vector, luke...
11:13 < kanzure> ahh that new keyboard feel
11:13 < kanzure> gonna have to take this keyboard out for a spin
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11:18 < CaptHindsight> http://www.networkworld.com/article/2920720/opensource-subnet/brainwave-reading-patents-spike-on-increase-in-commercial-mind-reading-apps.html Brainwave-reading patents spike on increase in commercial mind-reading apps
11:18 < CaptHindsight> delayed lunch
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11:20 < kanzure> the v key is overly sensitive
11:20 < kanzure> sensitivvvvve
11:21 < kanzure> wtf?
11:24 < kanzure> brushing the corner of the v key on my way to the b key is enough to set it off :|
11:24 < CaptHindsight> bad key switch?
11:24 < kanzure> membrane-style
11:27 < CaptHindsight> maybe the membrane has a slight bulge in the V key
11:28 < CaptHindsight> puts the silicone with carbon coating a bit closer to the printed contacts below
11:29 < CaptHindsight> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Membrane_keyboard_diagram_FULL_SCALE.png
11:30 < CaptHindsight> can you exchange the keyboard?
11:30 < kanzure> sure vbut this is already vbetter than what i had
11:30 < kanzure> other keyboard i had typed some of the keys ivnto the ground
11:38 < delinquentme> kanzure, is there a keyword for the quiet japanese boss who does nothing in meetings but observe?
11:38 < delinquentme> But everyone knows hes in charge?
11:38 < kanzure> wise
11:38 < delinquentme> nooooo something more specific
11:38 < delinquentme> its gotta be a thing
11:45 <@fenn> the keyboard you keep sheathed until you're ready to kill in one swift motion
11:46 < kanzure> is there a way for me to tone down the sensitivity
11:46 < delinquentme> booze
11:46 < delinquentme> just pour it ll over that keyboard
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13:11 < namespace> fenn: A hulking mechanical metal giant from the 70's?
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14:15 < catern> fenn: where is that trope from
14:17 < namespace> catern: Samurai movies/etc.
14:17 < namespace> Why?
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17:50 < kanzure> boop
18:04 < cluckj> beep
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18:54 < timothys> bong
18:55 < kanzure> hello timothys
18:55 < kanzure> welcome back
18:56 < timothys> can't be everywhere at once, but that doesn't stop me from trying.
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19:14 < timothys> reboot
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22:59 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone.
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--- Log closed Sun May 10 00:00:07 2015