--- Log opened Thu May 21 00:00:17 2015 00:18 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:24 -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:26 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@108.19.186.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:28 -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:51 -!- fauxami_ [fauxami@dialup.top-site.us] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:54 -!- TetraFlame [~fourfire@185.7.192.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:19 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:25 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:42 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:25 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@108.19.186.58] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:45 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@108.19.186.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:18 -!- chido [chidori@pasky.or.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:18 -!- chido [chidori@pasky.or.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 03:38 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:50 -!- wrldpc [~ben@176.111.1.110.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:56 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@108.19.186.58] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:00 < JayDugger> kanzure, how did you encounter the stone tools article in Nature? 04:19 < kanzure> i would rather not say 04:19 < kanzure> quite embarrassing method 04:21 < JayDugger> Fair enough. I hoped to learn a method of finding leads to such neat repositories as the 3d model of the dig site and africanfossils.org, but I'll just have to gnash my teeth instead. 04:21 < JayDugger> And guess you found it by getting a hard copy of the magazine in the mail. 04:23 < kanzure> nope 04:23 < kanzure> an even worse method 04:23 < chris_99> HN? 04:23 < kanzure> far worse 04:23 < chris_99> heh 04:24 < JayDugger> 04:28 < kanzure> https://blog.cloudflare.com/logjam-the-latest-tls-vulnerability-explained/ 04:29 < kanzure> some interesting solutions to bus routing optimization https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9577476 (like "pay the would-be passengers to take a taxi instead") 04:30 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:42 -!- Beatzebub [~beatzebub@d75-155-236-222.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Beatzebub] 04:44 -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vcfjumlgcakadzxc] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 04:49 -!- jdolan [~jdolan@c-50-188-243-111.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:49 -!- jdolan [~jdolan@c-50-188-243-111.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:55 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-edzeiynxbsgybifu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:16 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:33 -!- wrldpc [~ben@176.111.1.110.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: wrldpc] 05:33 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-122-133.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:37 -!- wrldpc [~ben@176.111.1.110.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:44 < kanzure> eudoxia: when are you traveling? 05:44 -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:46 -!- jdolan [~jdolan@c-50-188-243-111.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:46 -!- wrldpc [~ben@176.111.1.110.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: wrldpc] 05:47 -!- jdolan [~jdolan@c-50-188-243-111.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:47 -!- jdolan [~jdolan@c-50-188-243-111.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:47 -!- jdolan [~jdolan@c-50-188-243-111.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:38 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-122-133.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:56 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:59 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-122-133.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:04 -!- wrldpc [~ben@176.111.1.110.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:07 < kanzure> i bet all the autonomous self-driving car stuff will cause the price of lidar sensors to drop significantly 07:08 < eudoxia> would you... bet on a bitcoin prediction market 07:15 < narwh4l> cheap lidar would be great 07:15 < narwh4l> also better to create a btc contract than use a prediction market 07:15 < narwh4l> safer at least 07:16 < narwh4l> and of course it also begs the question: how much is significantly? 07:17 < chris_99> i got a spinning laser distance meter from one of those robot vacuum cleaners , although it's debatable if it's lidar as it uses parallax 07:17 < narwh4l> so a contract that computes the average price of lidar off of a set of vendors and checks to see if it drops x% by some date 07:18 < narwh4l> but yeah a consumer grade drone with lidar could probably do some neat stuff 07:25 < kanzure> wont necessarily drop on the same vendors 07:25 < kanzure> maybe just something like "lowest price on digikey" hehe 07:25 < kanzure> there's no way that the price per unit would stay obscenely high if every single autonomous vehicle has one... 07:27 < JayDugger> What price stayed fairly constant as capability improved? Something like an ever-greater (appropriate unit of performance) per $1000? 07:27 < kanzure> iphone price 07:29 < JayDugger> (Numbers for arguing that: http://aaplinvestors.net/stats/iphone/pricing/) 07:30 < JayDugger> Highest price on digikey/element14 might correct for sales and loss leaders. 07:46 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-122-133.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:50 -!- wrldpc [~ben@176.111.1.110.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: wrldpc] 07:58 < kanzure> http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/2010/03/18/atlas-event-display-decoded 08:06 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-122-133.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:17 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-122-133.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:52 -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iecxzflbwepqnzsy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:55 < kanzure> "Real-time marketplaces for bandwidth were one early suggested application for Agoric software, a field described by Mark Miller and Eric Drexler in 1988. Mark has been a researcher at Google for a while, though he's now working on other things." 09:12 < archels> "I believe we have now discovered the key function of neocortex" 09:13 < archels> that's it guys. we can all go home. thank you for your contributions 09:13 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-edzeiynxbsgybifu] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 09:15 < kanzure> archels: go on 09:24 < kanzure> "GDF11 Increases with Age and Inhibits Skeletal Muscle Regeneration" http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413115002223 09:24 < kanzure> ("young blood causes broken aged bone to heal faster") 09:29 -!- abetusk [~abe@c-66-31-30-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Killed (barjavel.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 09:29 -!- abetusk [~abe@157.130.220.250] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:29 -!- Guest97921 [~abe@c-66-31-30-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:32 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-detuilsrfdyvmsqg] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:36 < kanzure> http://en.spaceengine.org/ "a free space simulation program that lets you explore the universe in three dimensions, from planet Earth to the most distant galaxies. Areas of the known universe are represented using actual astronomical data, while regions uncharted by astronomy are generated procedurally." 09:40 < nmz787_i> does it include warp-speed? 09:43 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:46 < JayDugger> Only in the Russian-language version. 09:55 -!- EnabrinTain is now known as pms 09:55 -!- pms is now known as EnabrinTain 09:56 < archels> kanzure: you want more sarcasm? 10:02 < nmz787_i> anyone in here heading to Microscopy & Microanalysis 2015? (M&M 2015) ? 10:11 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-detuilsrfdyvmsqg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:11 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@192.55.55.41] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:12 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pqzrxhrrsiudpcru] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:25 < kanzure> archels: well, i want more hilarious tidbits from the source that you were mocking. what else did he believe? 10:39 < nmz787_i> http://news.sciencemag.org/biology/2015/05/electron-microscopes-close-imaging-individual-atoms?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=facebook 10:40 < nmz787_i> "This composite image of the protein β-galactosidase shows the progression of cryo-EM’s ability to resolve a protein’s features from mere blobs (left) a few years ago to the ultrafine 0.22-nanometer resolution today (right)." 10:49 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@host-37-191-195-228.lynet.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:54 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@host-37-191-195-228.lynet.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:55 < nmz787_i> "Subramaniam and his colleagues used some 40,000 separate images to piece together the final shape of their molecule. They report online today in Science that these refinements allowed them to produce a cryo-EM image of β-galactosidase at a resolution of 0.22 nm, not quite sharp enough to see individual atoms, but clear enough to see water molecules that bind to the protein in spots critical to the function of the molecule." 10:56 < nmz787_i> "for x-ray crystallography to work, researchers must produce millions of identical copies of a protein and then coax them to align in exactly the same orientation as they solidify into a crystal. But many proteins resist falling in line, making it impossible to determine their x-ray structure. NMR spectroscopy doesn’t require crystals, but it works only on small proteins. Cryo-EM represents the best of both worlds: It can work with massive protein 11:00 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@192.55.55.41] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 11:02 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@192.55.55.41] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:02 < nmz787_i> " but it doesn’t require crystals." 11:04 < nmz787_i> just realized pidgin wasn't splitting long messages 11:05 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:07 < nmz787_i> http://www.sciencemag.org/content/suppl/2015/05/06/science.aab1576.DC1/aab1576s1.mp4 11:08 < nmz787_i> http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/2.2_A_resolution_cryo-EM_structure_of_-galactosidase_in_complex_with_a_cell-permeant_inhibitor_supplement.pdf 11:13 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:19 -!- jdolan [~jdolan@c-50-188-243-111.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:19 -!- jdolan_ [~jdolan@c-50-188-243-111.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:38 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@192.55.55.41] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:08 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@192.55.55.41] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:21 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@192.55.55.41] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:32 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:33 < delinquentme> what is the paul gram essay talking about 10x programmers 12:34 < delinquentme> In a low-tech society you don't see much variation in productivity. If you have a tribe of nomads collecting sticks for a fire, how much more productive is the best stick gatherer going to be than the worst? A factor of two? Whereas when you hand people a complex tool like a computer, the variation in what they can do with it is enormous. 12:35 < delinquentme> http://www.paulgraham.com/gh.html 12:41 < abetusk> Is anyone who hangs out here in the Boston area? 12:47 -!- augur [~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:48 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:48 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:15 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:19 < kanzure> http://cs.stanford.edu/people/karpathy/convnetjs/ "ConvNetJS is a Javascript library for training Deep Learning models (mainly Neural Networks) entirely in your browser. Open a tab and you're training. No software requirements, no compilers, no installations, no GPUs, no sweat." 13:19 < kanzure> weird. 13:25 -!- CaptHindsight [~2020@unaffiliated/capthindsight] has quit [Quit: gone] 13:25 -!- CaptHindsight [~2020@unaffiliated/capthindsight] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:40 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:47 -!- jdolan_ [~jdolan@c-50-188-243-111.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:49 -!- jdolan [~jdolan@2601:3:8200:11a7:9086:3ae3:9e78:4a7b] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:51 -!- soylentbomb [~k@unaffiliated/soylentbomb] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:58 -!- Beatzebub [~beatzebub@d75-155-236-222.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:19 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-24-172-0.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:28 -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:54 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@134.134.139.77] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:36 < archels> "If you want to answer a question about the human mind (or publish a paper in Cognition) you formulate some hypotheses, bring an appropriate number of people into the laboratory, and have them carry out a task that distinguishes between those hypotheses." 15:42 -!- augur [~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:44 < archels> "People “hack” their own perceptual systems to make them more useful to cognition." 15:45 < archels> note scarequotes 15:45 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:53 < kanzure> archels: hilarious 15:54 < jrayhawk> delinquentme: a good tracker can be ten times as effective at acquiring meat 15:54 < kanzure> clearly i need to throw together a 12 week class called "dr. doom's 12 week hellschool on appropriate and angry experimental design" 15:55 -!- wrldpc [~ben@176.111.1.110.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:59 -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has quit [Quit: fencing] 15:59 -!- abetusk [~abe@157.130.220.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02 < delinquentme> jrayhawk, meaning? 16:03 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@134.134.139.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:06 < jrayhawk> your conception of paleoanthropological skill and specialization seems inadequate 16:07 -!- Quashie_ [~boingredd@50.14.92.17] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:08 < jrayhawk> (you have chosen to compare skilled labor to menial labour; i hope it is for lack of imagination) 16:08 < jrayhawk> (the alternative explanations are worse) 16:11 -!- Quashie [~boingredd@50.14.92.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:17 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:20 < delinquentme> jrayhawk, its an extrapolation ... and a meaningful one, within the context of increasingly complex tools. 16:20 < delinquentme> jrayhawk, im not sure where your comments fit in other than pointing out the obvious but then seemingly missing the point ? 16:53 -!- wrldpc [~ben@176.111.1.110.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: wrldpc] 16:56 -!- Guest97921 is now known as abetusk 17:28 -!- jdolan [~jdolan@2601:3:8200:11a7:9086:3ae3:9e78:4a7b] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:28 -!- jdolan [~jdolan@c-50-188-243-111.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:34 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-24-172-0.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:34 -!- Madplatypus is now known as Plat 17:34 -!- Plat is now known as Guest28398 17:35 -!- Guest28398 is now known as Madplatypus 17:42 -!- sheena [~home@S0106c8be196316d1.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:43 -!- wrldpc [~ben@176.111.1.110.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:46 -!- jdolan [~jdolan@c-50-188-243-111.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:47 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:48 -!- jdolan [~jdolan@c-50-188-243-111.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:59 < kanzure> .title http://journals.aps.org/pra/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevA.47.2205 17:59 < yoleaux> Phys. Rev. A 47, 2205 (1993) - Stability analysis for an optical bistable dye system 18:03 < kanzure> .title http://www.chronox.de/jent/doc/CPU-Jitter-NPTRNG.html 18:03 < yoleaux> CPU Time Jitter Based Non-Physical True Random Number Generator 18:05 < kanzure> "A number of the operating system’s non-physical true random number generators use block devices, such as hard disks as entropy source. The heart of the entropy lies in the timing variances when accessing such disks which depend on the spin angle of the disk or the location of the read heads at the time of the access request. The more and more often used Solid State Disks (SSDs) advertise themselves as block devices to the operating ... 18:05 < kanzure> ... system but yet lack the physical phenomenon that is expected to deliver entropy. The implication is that the SSD block devices cannot be used as entropy source either, although they are partially still treated as entropy source by the standard operating system’s random number generators." 18:05 < kanzure> nah that doesn't sound dangerous at all 18:11 < kanzure> 16:56 < nsh> HH So it turns out that the surface of the moon has space for several hundred petabytes of information encoded at a one-millimeter resolution that could be read from practically-sized terrestrial instruments. 18:11 < kanzure> 16:56 < nsh> HH And laser-printing on the moon should require less than a watt of power. 18:12 * nsh is still skeptical 18:13 < nsh> there are threads in alt.laser on the subject, apparently 18:13 < nsh> well, on the difficulty of even reading reflected laser light from the moon, modulo the artificial retroreflector 18:13 < kanzure> nsh: the real trick is to store data in droplets of water in fog 18:13 < nsh> is it? 18:14 < kanzure> no 18:14 < nsh> phew 18:14 < kanzure> pew pew pew 18:14 * nsh smiles 18:14 < kanzure> xentrac is such a meanie butthead and he never shows up in here anymore 18:15 < Adlai> kanzure: there was not enough discussion of "Exhalation" here after you linked it 18:16 * Adlai was reminded of that by your "store data in droplets" comment 18:16 < kanzure> that sounds like a ted chiang thing 18:16 -!- sheena [~home@d154-20-227-188.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:16 < Adlai> yes, http://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/exhalation/ 18:18 < kanzure> everything i learned about science fiction i learned from orionsarm.com or from cribbing notes from you guys 18:21 < kanzure> Adlai: you can fix that by discussing things, you know 18:22 < Adlai> right now, discussion comes second fiddle to rereading, although that might yield some discussion soon 18:22 < Adlai> naturally the scene i'm looking forward to most is the self-dissection 18:24 < kanzure> "my heart? take it. i've got five of them." 18:26 < kanzure> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkTUc4e0ACA 18:27 < kanzure> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKAeBvyI_Tc 18:27 < kanzure> eh close enough 18:36 < Adlai> sadly such stories leave me with little thought for discussion beyond "how can entropy be reversed?" 18:37 < kanzure> why should it be? 18:37 < kanzure> Adlai: http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-topic/45cd35531fb53 18:38 < kanzure> .title 18:38 < yoleaux> Orion's Arm - Encyclopedia Galactica - Negentropy Alliance 18:38 < Adlai> lol, "Metapsychology: Cautious; preference for reversible actions" 18:39 < Adlai> "how can entropy be reversed?" is the our-world version of "how can we move air back into the reservoir" 18:39 < Adlai> the Aha! moment when reading Exhalation is that "air" parallels not oxygen, or carbon, or glucose - but entropy 18:39 -!- night [~Adifex@unaffiliated/adifex] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:42 -!- night [~Adifex@unaffiliated/adifex] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:45 -!- jdolan [~jdolan@c-50-188-243-111.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46 -!- jdolan [~jdolan@c-50-188-243-111.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:46 < Adlai> well now i'm stuck in the orion's arm rabbithole for the forseeable (~10 millenia?) future. thank you kanzure 18:47 < kanzure> no problem, and don't send me the bill 18:48 < Adlai> this is like an encyclopedia-length Requiem for Homo Sapiens 18:48 < kanzure> have you read that? 18:48 < Adlai> .wik A Requiem for Homo Sapiens 18:48 < yoleaux> "A Requiem for Homo Sapiens is a trilogy of science fiction novels written by David Zindell that is made up of The Broken God (1992), The Wild (1995), and War in Heaven (1998). This trilogy is a sequel to the standalone novel called Neverness (1988)." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Requiem_for_Homo_Sapiens 18:48 < Adlai> yes 18:48 < kanzure> did you also read neverness? 18:49 < Adlai> yes, kinda silly calling it a trilogy. it's just one tetralogy (quadrilogy?) that wasn't published all at once 18:49 < kanzure> did you read those after i mentioned them? 18:49 < Adlai> maybe, how many years ago did you mention them? :P 18:50 < kanzure> well you only met me 2015-02-17 18:50 * Adlai read them in high school 18:50 < Adlai> admittedly, not that long ago 18:50 < Adlai> but not as a conscious result of your mention 18:50 < kanzure> cool 18:51 < kanzure> well you're in the right place 18:51 < kanzure> this is the unofficial fan club of david zindell and the official fan club of eugen leitl 18:52 < Adlai> i've not read leitl, but herrigel was quite good 18:52 < kanzure> eleitl is an hplusroadmap user who has been around on the internet since the beginning of time, not scifi author 18:52 < kanzure> he threw together the mind uploading research group in the 90s, uploaded some worm brains, etc 18:53 <@fenn> http://news.sciencemag.org/biology/2015/05/doubts-cast-rejuvenating-protein GDF11 <- weird, i was interviewed once by the article author jocelyn kaiser 18:53 < kanzure> you're thinking of jocelyn zuckerman 18:53 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pqzrxhrrsiudpcru] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 18:54 < Adlai> to use the exhalation analogy - "uploaded some worm brains" seems rather like "engraved the connectivity graph of a person's air tubules" 18:54 < kanzure> what's wrong with air tubules? 18:54 < Adlai> it seems increasingly obvious, from my comfortable armchair deep within the sidelines, that much interesting information lurks outside the neural connectivity graph 18:55 < kanzure> sure, like gene expression stuff 18:55 < Adlai> for an even more contrived analogy: you don't get that much information about the internet from a graph of fiber and rj45s 18:55 < kanzure> so what 18:57 < Adlai> the interesting information about consciousness (in general, the state of a brain) seems to lurk outside of the information that is collected by the "brain upload" projects that i'm aware of 18:57 < kanzure> for whatever it's worth we do have detailed investigations into individual neuron type electrophysiology profiles 18:57 < kanzure> ah okay so you believe in consciousness.. yeah, i don't. i don't care. 18:57 < Adlai> "which one?" 18:57 < kanzure> i don't even care if consciousness is real and that i'm not grabbing it. couldn't care less. 18:58 < Adlai> i'll know whether i believe in god once you define it more precisely 18:58 < Adlai> thus the parenthetical - "state of a brain" 18:59 < Adlai> there is some use in knowing the connectivity graph of the computers that make up the internet; there's even more use added by knowing the latency of each router; but that doesn't get you anywhere close to understanding what all those signals are signalling 18:59 < kanzure> i don't know if i need to understand what they are signalling 19:00 < Adlai> this conversation is missing an "in order to" 19:00 < Adlai> are we trying to build synthetic worms? synthetic programmers? robots that feel emotion? gods? 19:00 <@fenn> Adlai: you think information is stored in firing patterns? 19:01 < kanzure> well, sensory data is certainly not immediately methylated into neuronal dna 19:02 < kanzure> and auditory and visual cortex matter is definitely doing signal processing or signal transformation stuff 19:02 < Adlai> yes, and firing patterns are a symptom of the chemical gradients within and between neurons 19:02 <@fenn> then isn't the information stored in the "chemical gradients" between neurons (whatever that is) 19:03 < Adlai> different kinds of information can be stored in different ways 19:04 <@fenn> the internet mostly stores data as magnetic domains on hard disks and voltages in ram chips 19:04 <@fenn> mapping the "internet connectome" won't get you any of that data 19:05 <@fenn> but neurons generate higher synaptic density in response to mutual firing (hebbian learning) 19:05 <@fenn> so the connectome actually does store information about past events 19:05 < kanzure> and synapse growth cone stuff 19:06 < kanzure> and synaptic strengthening and exploration/exploitation 19:06 < kanzure> remote axon targetting, too 19:06 <@fenn> i thought that was developmental 19:06 < kanzure> .wik axon guidance 19:06 < yoleaux> "Axon guidance (also called axon pathfinding) is a subfield of neural development concerning the process by which neurons send out axons to reach the correct targets. Axons often follow very precise paths in the nervous system, and how they manage to find their way so accurately is being researched." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axon_guidance 19:06 < kanzure> hmm. 19:08 < kanzure> uh, ambiguous 19:10 <@fenn> i think there is growth in response to general activity in the area, but that's more like adaptation to stresses or exercise 19:10 <@fenn> (i could be totally wrong about this) 19:12 <@fenn> "many other classes of extracellular molecules are used by growth cones to navigate properly: NGF, N-CAM, ... Neurotransmitters and modulators like GABA" 19:13 <@fenn> so maybe inhibiting a certain area with GABA actually prevents new growth in that area 19:21 -!- sheena [~home@d154-20-227-188.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:24 -!- Qfwfq [~WashIrvin@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:30 -!- Qfwfq [~WashIrvin@unaffiliated/washirving] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:34 < kanzure> i think Adlai died 19:35 -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:36 * Adlai 19:36 < Adlai> the trouble with interesting conversations is that i spend most of them looking up terms on wikipedia, then looking up other terms, etc 19:37 < kanzure> why is that trouble 19:38 < Adlai> slows/kills conversation 19:38 < kanzure> irc is asynchronous 19:38 < kanzure> .. ish. 19:39 < Adlai> you're the one that pronounced death after half an hour of silence :P 19:39 * Adlai was also reading orion's arm nonsense 19:40 < kanzure> i got bored 19:41 < kanzure> (someone ended a phone call and lots of attention got freed up) 19:42 < Adlai> why have the lobsters not sponsored their own translobsterism movement? 19:56 < kanzure> it's hard for them because of the extremely low dexterity 19:57 < kanzure> .wik bencode 19:57 < yoleaux> "Bencode (pronounced like B encode) is the encoding used by the peer-to-peer file sharing system BitTorrent for storing and transmitting loosely structured data." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bencode 20:03 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@66-161-138-110.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:03 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@66-161-138-110.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:22 < kanzure> .title https://www.quantamagazine.org/20150521-ocean-viruses/ 20:22 < yoleaux> Ocean Virus Populations Mapped for First Time | Quanta Magazine 20:22 < kanzure> "Out of the 5,476 populations they identified, only 39 were previously known to science." 20:22 < kanzure> "“It’s a smaller number than I expected,” Sullivan said. Based on smaller studies, some scientists had speculated that there might be 50,000 species of ocean viruses and billions of viral genes. But the Tara Oceans survey suggests that’s not the case. “It is what it is,” Sullivan said." 20:23 < kanzure> .title http://www.sciencemag.org/content/348/6237/1261498 20:23 < yoleaux> Patterns and ecological drivers of ocean viral communities 20:26 -!- fauxami_ [fauxami@dialup.top-site.us] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:50 < kanzure> 20:21 <+xentrac> nsh: you can compensate for the atmosphere 20:50 < kanzure> 20:22 <+xentrac> focusing a laser to 1mm over that distance requires a phased array of phase-locked lasers 20:50 < kanzure> 20:23 <+xentrac> dispersion is not a problem because lasers are monochromatic anyway 20:50 < kanzure> vv20:23 <+xentrac> the idea isn't to physically shift the dust but to melt it 20:51 < kanzure> 20:24 <+xentrac> getting a 1mm Airy spot at 384 megameters requires about a 50-kilometer baseline 20:54 <@fenn> or you could just put a satellite around the moon... 20:54 <@fenn> it could orbit at 100 meters 20:59 -!- wrldpc [~ben@176.111.1.110.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: wrldpc] 21:03 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:36 -!- gnusha [~gnusha@unaffiliated/kanzure/bot/gnusha] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:36 -!- gnusha [~gnusha@unaffiliated/kanzure/bot/gnusha] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:36 -!- Topic for ##hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | sponsored by lobsters everywhere, banned by the Federal Death Administration (5 times) | this channel is LOGGED: http://gnusha.org/logs | http://diyhpl.us/wiki | "ray kurzweil is a pessimist" - george church 21:36 -!- Topic set by kanzure [~kanzure@unaffiliated/kanzure] [Wed May 20 12:46:25 2015] 21:36 [Users ##hplusroadmap] 21:36 [@fenn ] [ BobaMa_ ] [ EnabrinTain ] [ juul ] [ pasky ] [ streety ] 21:36 [ abetusk ] [ Burnin8 ] [ erasmus ] [ kanzure ] [ poohbear ] [ Taek ] 21:36 [ Adlai ] [ CaptHindsight] [ fredox ] [ maaku ] [ Qfwfq ] [ the8thbit] 21:36 [ altersid ] [ catern ] [ gnusha ] [ Madplatypus] [ Quashie_ ] [ ThomasEgi] 21:36 [ andytoshi] [ crescend1 ] [ heath ] [ mf1008 ] [ rigel ] [ thundara ] 21:36 [ archels ] [ Daeken ] [ hehelleshin ] [ MrHindsight] [ rk[1]_ ] [ TMA ] 21:36 [ augur ] [ danielpbarron] [ HEx1 ] [ narwh4l ] [ saurik ] [ Urchin ] 21:36 [ balrog ] [ dingo ] [ JayDugger ] [ nickjohnson] [ sivoais ] [ Viper168 ] 21:36 [ Beatzebub] [ Douhet ] [ jdolan ] [ night ] [ Souljack ] [ vivi ] 21:36 [ berndj ] [ dpk ] [ jrayhawk ] [ nmz787_ ] [ soylentbomb] [ yoleaux ] 21:36 [ bkero ] [ drewbot ] [ juri_ ] [ nsh ] [ strages ] [ yorick ] 21:36 [ blueskin ] [ dustinm ] [ justanotheruser] [ ParahSailin] [ strangewarp] 21:36 -!- Irssi: ##hplusroadmap: Total of 71 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 70 normal] 21:37 -!- Channel ##hplusroadmap created Thu Feb 25 23:40:30 2010 21:37 -!- Irssi: Join to ##hplusroadmap was synced in 14 secs 21:50 -!- augur [~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:55 -!- balrog [~balrog@discferret/developer/balrog] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:03 -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has quit [Quit: Namaste ] 22:05 -!- balrog [~balrog@discferret/developer/balrog] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:11 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-158-205-120.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-226-78-232.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:30 -!- augur [~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:31 -!- xrr [~xrr@gprs-inet-65-68.elisa.ee] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:36 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:03 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:08 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:29 -!- sheena [~home@S0106c8be196316d1.ok.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:44 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:45 -!- wrldpc [~ben@176.111.1.110.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:47 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:48 -!- jdolan_ [~jdolan@2601:3:8200:11a7:9086:3ae3:9e78:4a7b] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:48 -!- jdolan [~jdolan@c-50-188-243-111.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:54 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@60-108-11.connect.netcom.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Fri May 22 00:00:18 2015