--- Log opened Sun Jul 12 00:00:08 2015 00:26 -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has quit [Quit: Namaste] 00:31 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@101.177.244.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:31 -!- proofoflogic [uid65184@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kzipxkbyqmftqjmd] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:32 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@101.177.244.210] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:45 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@82.146.86.195] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:50 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@101.177.244.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@101.177.244.210] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:07 -!- wrldpc1 [~ben@206.104.133.27.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:09 -!- zadock [~outsider@81.180.210.87] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:10 -!- wrldpc1 [~ben@206.104.133.27.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:11 -!- wrldpc1 [~ben@206.104.133.27.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:15 -!- wrldpc1 [~ben@206.104.133.27.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:16 -!- wrldpc1 [~ben@206.104.133.27.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:44 -!- gmaxwell [greg@wikimedia/KatWalsh/x-0001] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:46 < gmaxwell> So... self/less semi-scifi action movie; which is arguably kind of anti-transhumanism. Though I wonder if, to the extent it has any effect at all, if it would have a pro-transhumanism or anti-transhumanism effect. E.g. "bad rich people do mind-transfer immortality" vs "holy shit maybe mind-transfer immortality could be possible?" 01:50 * fenn blinks 01:50 < fenn> thought i had switched to the wrong channel for a sec 01:53 < fenn> stargate had a whole thing about the ancients and mind uploading technology that went on forever (i didn't watch most of it) 01:54 < fenn> are you proposing making a movie, or asking about existing movies? 01:56 < gmaxwell> There is an existing move, just out in theaters; that I'm semi-whining about. 01:57 < gmaxwell> I could (not too accurately) describe it as a remake of freejack. 01:58 < gmaxwell> in any case, without giving too much away. Not super nice Billionare is dying of cancer. Mysterious scientists offer him a process to trasfer into a new body. Process works, but then a bunch of stuff happens mostly because a "sci fi" movie can't exist without lots of explosions. 02:00 < gmaxwell> Misses a great oppturnity to paint an interesting morally grey story; instead opts for cartoon villany. But the on topic context is I wonder if (in the unlikely event the movie influences public opinion at all) if that influence might be anti-transhumanist (as the movie seems to be at face value) or pro- just by virtue of getting people thinking. 02:04 < fenn> oh i had dismissed that offhand because it should have been based on "i will fear no evil" in the first place 02:04 < fenn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Will_Fear_No_Evil 02:07 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:08 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@82.146.86.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:08 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:08 < fenn> it's not like any of this is new 02:09 -!- Viper168_ is now known as Viper168 02:09 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@82.146.86.195] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:12 < fenn> a movie like "limitless" seems more down to earth, while actually representing enhancements in a positive light 02:16 < fenn> most pop culture portrays technology as ambivalent at best, as if it would have existed anyway and we're all just along for the ride 02:17 < fenn> there's almost never a sense that hey, we have this problem, and it sucks, but then someone fixed the problem with technology 02:17 < fenn> something about story archetypes 02:18 < gmaxwell> yea, limitless was fun. Yea, well a fun thing to watch in movies: no one ever reads, researches, designs, thinks, invents.. I think because these processes are mostly inward and thus boring to show in a movie. 02:18 < Adlai> Gattaca was about as good as it can get while maintaining homage to the indomitable human spirit 02:18 < fenn> -_- 02:19 < Adlai> no? 02:19 < fenn> gattaca is a lame straw man 02:19 < fenn> not a shining example 02:19 * Adlai isn't citing it as a strawman 02:20 < fenn> ok so you're saying gattaca is promoting technology as a positive force? please explain 02:20 < Adlai> so terrible, that the kid's dream is to fly to mars 02:21 < Adlai> this requires a bit of technology 02:21 < Adlai> sure there's also "misuse" of technology in that movie, but there are plenty of cool aspects 02:21 < fenn> it only requires him passing an onerous entrance exam based mostly on societal prejudices 02:21 < Adlai> which stick with you is largely a matter of biases and maybe having the movie presented as a strawman too many times 02:22 < gmaxwell> Gattaca appeared to have a considerable public policy impact in the US. (GINA) 02:22 < gmaxwell> Fortunately not a greviously bad one (AFAIK) 02:22 * Adlai saw it many years after the fact, in an open minded context 02:25 < Adlai> gmaxwell: which movie did you semi-whine about? 02:26 < gmaxwell> Adlai: "self/less" 02:26 * Adlai parsed that as adjectival 02:27 < Adlai> ... and there's another terminator movie!? maybe this one i'll skip. 02:28 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@82.146.86.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:29 < fenn> has anyone read "the terminal experiment"? 02:31 * Adlai has begun the long-overdue GEB 02:31 < JayDugger> Yes, fenn. 02:32 < gmaxwell> Adlai: oh wow, you've not read GEB? 02:32 < JayDugger> Never too late to read GEB. 02:34 < Adlai> "metamagical themas" got me programming for fun, but that was years ago and it's time to fix the omission 02:35 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/irc/the_terminal_experiment.pdf haven't read it but the plot summary on wikipedia sounded relevant 02:37 < JayDugger> I read it when serialized, and well, I think you can do better with your reading time. 02:37 < fenn> hum ok 02:37 < JayDugger> I am not a fan of Robert Sawyer, to put it politely. 02:38 < JayDugger> If you want to read philosophical SF, pick a random book by Lem or Egan. You'll do better. 02:38 -!- Acty [uid89656@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hsnqpunixpwwsywa] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:38 < fenn> i like ted chiang's books; they're similar 02:39 < JayDugger> If you want to read SF that explores religion, pick, in order of relevance, Blish's A Case of Conscience, Zebrowski's Cave of Stars, or anything by Stapledon. 02:39 < JayDugger> Let me look at a list of Chiang's works. I might not have read anything by him. 02:40 < fenn> oh i thought "the terminal experiment" was about mind uploads escaping into the internet, and the "soul wave" thing was just technobabble 02:40 < gmaxwell> Adlai: GEB was essential to meeting my partner, in fact. 02:40 < JayDugger> No, more like the other way around, IIRC. 02:40 < JayDugger> Read Platt's The Silicon Man for a better uploading story. 02:42 < gmaxwell> Re uploading stories. gwillen related to me a story he forgot the name of where someone was scanned and the data open sourced after the simulation failed to work... anyone know what story that was? 02:42 < JayDugger> For the record, I've nothing against religion or OOBE or NDE or the like in SF. I think Sawyer's overrated, and that he won his various awards through lack of competition. 02:43 < JayDugger> Do you remember what year, gmaxwell, and what length? Novel? Short story? 02:43 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@82.146.86.195] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:43 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/irc/Charles_Platt_-_The_Silicon_Man.pdf 02:44 < gmaxwell> JayDugger: I believe a novel, impression I had was that it was relatively recent. (also because if it were fairly old the liklyhood that I would have read it would be much greater). 02:44 < JayDugger> That's it, yes. 02:44 < JayDugger> This decade? This century? 02:45 < gmaxwell> This decade seems more likely. 02:46 < gmaxwell> Are there many uploading stories outside of this century? Ah do I need to specify that I'm talking about a book that has already been written (date is not in the future). :) 02:46 < JayDugger> Platt wrote in the 1990s. 02:46 < JayDugger> If I did a little research, I could probably find older stories too, though I doubt many if any before 1970 or so. 02:47 < JayDugger> Failed uploads show up in Alastair Reynolds Conjoiner setting, Revelation Space, etc. 02:47 < JayDugger> Those are from the 2000s. 02:48 < JayDugger> Egan wrote Permutation City in the 1990s, too. 02:48 < JayDugger> fenn, I don't think I've read anything by Chiang. 02:49 < gmaxwell> I've recommended permutation city in the past to lots of people; basically required reading before any of the more recent singularity fiction the asks you to accept an awful lot of stuff. 02:50 < Adlai> what about zindell? 02:50 * Adlai hasn't read the lightbringer series, but neverness & its sequels were great 02:51 < fenn> JayDugger: mostly short stories.. i recommend "understand" and "story of your life" 02:51 < Adlai> http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/shanidar.htm 02:52 < JayDugger> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading_in_fiction 02:52 < JayDugger> My guess of 1970 was too late. 02:53 < JayDugger> What about Zindell? 02:54 < Adlai> philosophical SF that explores religion 02:55 < JayDugger> Good point, but you could say the same about Frank Herbert's major works. 02:55 < Adlai> sure 02:55 < Adlai> but herbert's name is thrown around a lot more often than zindell's 02:56 < JayDugger> I stick with the examples I gave earlier, because they don't pussyfoot around with fictional religions. 02:56 < JayDugger> Except for Stapledon, but he gets mentioned because of the early time when he wrote. 02:57 -!- proofoflogic [uid65184@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kzipxkbyqmftqjmd] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 02:57 < JayDugger> Reading the Wikipedia article (above), I'd forgotten Benford's Eater. 02:58 < JayDugger> That's not really about religion per se, but it does involve mind uploading, human sacrifice, and propitiating an angry god. 03:01 < JayDugger> gmaxwell, I am sorry I couldn't help, but I have no idea what work you have in mind. 03:02 < gmaxwell> JayDugger: thanks in any case; I only asked because the subject came up. 03:02 < gmaxwell> :) 03:33 -!- kish [~oracle@unaffiliated/oracle] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 03:34 -!- kish [~oracle@unaffiliated/oracle] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:39 -!- flamoot [~yaaic@CPE788df7e6f391-CM788df7e6f390.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:40 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@82.146.86.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:42 -!- Porb [~Porbus@CPE-124-180-167-154.lns6.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:44 -!- flamoot2 [~yaaic@CPE84948cbd2591-CM84948cbd2590.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:47 -!- flamoot [~yaaic@CPE788df7e6f391-CM788df7e6f390.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:49 -!- Beatzebub [~beatzebub@d162-156-106-225.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:51 -!- signo5 [~signo5@unaffiliated/signo5] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Leaving"] 03:51 -!- flamoot2 [~yaaic@CPE84948cbd2591-CM84948cbd2590.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:03 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@82.146.86.195] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:20 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@82.146.86.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:32 -!- frogodog [~Iauh@unaffiliated/knobuddy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:52 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-166-28-217.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:52 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-211-61-160.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:56 -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ppnzfanjvxzgmess] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 04:59 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@50-119-11.connect.netcom.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:18 -!- frogodog is now known as TheDiscord 06:05 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@50-119-11.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:10 < kanzure> "And even they often do not succeed in correcting the problem. Cryonics cases involve hugely varying clinical presentations, disease histories, ischemic intervals, available technical, social and financial resources, and on and on. This kind of situation cannot currently be automated, and to truly automate it would require something approaching global, or mature AI. It would also (currently) be unbelievably expensive since in order not ... 06:10 < kanzure> ... be overridden, it would require robotic control of the patient from pre-pronouncement through long term storage in LN2." 06:13 < kanzure> "You should also look at what nature has done vis a vis the problem of freezing in living organisms. There is huge, indeed absolutely enormous evolutionary pressure to adapt complex living systems like big mammals to tolerate freezing. Energetically, it is by far the most economical approach. And yet, beyond very small scales nature does not do this. Antarctica is littered with the corpses of mammals and birds who froze death and full of ... 06:13 < kanzure> ... mammals and birds who go to absurd and very energetically costly extremes to AVOID freezing at all costs. Penguins, the Weddel and Elephant seals all avoid freezing, even though it would be far more energetically and practically sensible to simple to just solidify and wait until till summer comes. Why? Why does nothing bigger than a tree frog freeze? Why are the few organisms that do tolerate "freezing" all very small and all ... 06:13 < kanzure> ... carefully control where and how much ice forms?" 06:13 < kanzure> "Let me put it to you another way. If you set out to create mammals that could tolerate being run over by a steam roller by progressively crushing them generation after generation what you end up with if you succeeded? And how applicable would it be the mammals you stated with? Maybe even more to the point, would it be physically possible and how long would it take and what would it cost? Remember also that not every thing we want living ... 06:13 < kanzure> ... systems to do is doable." 06:13 < kanzure> heh 06:17 < kanzure> so for his comment about why don't penguins just wait it out, that's not really fair because perhaps they stumbled into the method of avoiding freezing first (local minima/maxima) 06:31 < JayDugger> What source has that pasted quote? 06:33 < kanzure> private correspondence with mike darwin, lord of the frozen realm 06:38 -!- Porb [~Porbus@CPE-124-180-167-154.lns6.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:42 < JayDugger> Got it. Thanks. 06:45 -!- night [~Adifex@unaffiliated/adifex] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:46 < kanzure> .title http://spaceprob.es/ 06:46 < yoleaux> spaceprob.es catalogs the active human-made machines that freckle our solar system 06:47 -!- Guest92408 is now known as vivi 06:47 -!- night [~Adifex@unaffiliated/adifex] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:54 -!- Quashie [~boingredd@50.14.92.17] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:04 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@251-114-11.connect.netcom.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:24 -!- kish is now known as cindy 07:25 -!- cindy is now known as penelope 07:26 -!- penelope is now known as kish 07:34 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@108.19.186.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:10 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:18 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:24 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@108.19.186.58] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:26 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@108.19.186.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:28 -!- QuadIngi [~FourFire@cm-84.215.200.193.getinternet.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:31 -!- FourFire [~FourFire@251-114-11.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:34 -!- TheDiscord [~Iauh@unaffiliated/knobuddy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:00 < heath> https://github.com/ruuvi 09:01 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@108.19.186.58] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:01 < heath> they are moving from the da14581 to a nrf52 in v2 of ruuvitag 09:01 < heath> i'm so excited to see this 09:02 * heath hopefully doesn't have to depend upon estimote in the future 09:04 < heath> announcement: http://ruuvi.com/blog/ruuvi-goes-fully-open-source.html 09:04 < heath> firmware will be released in about a week i'm told 09:11 -!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-9-188.client.mchsi.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:29 -!- QuadIngi [~FourFire@cm-84.215.200.193.getinternet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:29 -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:29 -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:33 -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:40 -!- QuadIngi [~FourFire@cm-84.215.200.193.getinternet.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:46 -!- QuadIngi [~FourFire@cm-84.215.200.193.getinternet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:02 -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ektriyqhqwxknwal] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:28 -!- Porb [~Porbus@CPE-124-180-167-154.lns6.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:40 -!- proofoflogic [uid65184@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uhapqoeczuwmqyuo] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:43 -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:45 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:46 < juri_> yay, more Free Hardware. :) 10:47 < juri_> I need to get my Pick and Place system going. 10:51 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:52 -!- QuadIngi [~FourFire@cm-84.215.200.193.getinternet.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:53 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: updated specs sent 10:53 < kanzure> coolio, lunch first then i will review 11:08 < kanzure> CaptHindsight: reasons for vacuum chuck? just curious 11:09 < kanzure> phosphoramidite images are hard to figure out 11:10 < kanzure> (photos) 11:15 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: that is how they held the sample slides in place 11:15 < kanzure> hm well okay, makes sense- it's easier than the clip that microscopes use 11:15 < CaptHindsight> it also would remove any excess wash fluid from the underside of the sample slides 11:16 < CaptHindsight> yeah 11:18 < kanzure> CaptHindsight: juri_ is willing to do some reverse engineering for the piezo control. should we just have her do the fpga + board? 11:19 < CaptHindsight> I already have it 11:20 < CaptHindsight> i just need to verify the new 1420 head 11:20 < juri_> you already have the head reverse engineered? 11:21 -!- Acty [uid89656@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hsnqpunixpwwsywa] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 11:21 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: this image? http://imagebin.ca/v/28P4N0YwuKK6 this 11:21 < CaptHindsight> juri_: yes, it's not just reversing 11:22 < kanzure> yeah... i see something being held, i see some tubes. uh.. 11:22 < kanzure> i see some stuff behind the tubes 11:22 < juri_> what's needed? 11:22 < CaptHindsight> the original POSaM team did not understand the printhead operation 11:22 < CaptHindsight> they just saw a firing pulse and tried to copy it 11:23 < CaptHindsight> the firing pulse shape is the heart of piezo inkjet 11:23 < CaptHindsight> juri_: I need to merge Mesa hm2 cnc control VHDL with printhead VHDL 11:23 < CaptHindsight> and make it open 11:24 < juri_> since you're using different fluids that have a different surface tension.. 11:24 < CaptHindsight> the Mesa stuff already is 11:24 < juri_> OK. i can do that. 11:24 < juri_> what's the timescale? 11:24 < CaptHindsight> yes, waveforms are even patented to block competitors 11:25 < CaptHindsight> I can have the printer up in August 11:25 < juri_> damn. then i need to start now-now. 11:26 < CaptHindsight> I'm also going to out whatever doesn't fit into the Mesa IO board onto the printhead controller 11:27 < CaptHindsight> out/put 11:27 < CaptHindsight> juri_: you have a drop watcher? 11:27 < juri_> Nope. 11:27 < juri_> SEM, and CNC'd microscopes (with lasers!)... 11:28 < CaptHindsight> nice but not how it works 11:29 < CaptHindsight> I have to build the analog board for the printhead as well 11:29 < juri_> yea, i'm behind the curve on this. been busy 3d printing metals... 11:29 < CaptHindsight> we can stuff the cnc control and printhead control into the Mesa FPGA 11:30 < CaptHindsight> then use the provided IO on the Mesa board to get the digital signals off to the DAC/analog board 11:31 < CaptHindsight> Mesa also has some new control blocks for the FPGA in the works that might be used for the printhead 11:31 < juri_> you got links to what you're currently running on the mesa? 11:31 < CaptHindsight> talking to them right now 11:31 < juri_> It's been a few years since i've touched VHDL. 11:31 < CaptHindsight> it's all on the Mesa site 11:32 -!- Acty [uid89656@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lnomihmgkbtswyha] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:33 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: the images from the POSaM doc aren't too clear 11:33 < kanzure> agreed 11:34 < CaptHindsight> they just run line from the vials to the printhead 11:34 < CaptHindsight> needle through septum, line , line over fluid inlets to printhead 11:34 < kanzure> i think the abi machines had two lines into each vial, one for gas and another for material to be pushed up (or down?) 11:35 < CaptHindsight> another thing that the POSaM team did not understand 11:35 < kanzure> perhaps they just didn't specify it 11:36 < CaptHindsight> printheads require the right amount of negative pressure behind the jet, you also want positive pressure to flush if clogged or purge the chamber 11:37 < juri_> POSaM doc? link? 11:38 < kanzure> http://bioinformatics.org/pogo/ 11:38 < kanzure> http://bioinformatics.org/pogo/POSAM_Man_Ch1_Assembly_v1-2_040601.pdf 11:38 < kanzure> http://bioinformatics.org/pogo/POSAM_Man_Ch2_User_v1-0_040414.pdf 11:40 < CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.ca/v/28PAVbNVLF7x the other pic with the vials and drying nozzles 11:41 < CaptHindsight> http://www.mesanet.com/software/parallel/5i24.zip Mesa hm2 files 11:44 < CaptHindsight> I listed the Epson 1420 as the printhead earlier, it is actually the 1430 11:45 -!- QuadIngi [~FourFire@cm-84.215.200.193.getinternet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:46 < juri_> ok, i'm going to need a few hours to digest all of this. 11:47 < CaptHindsight> it has 90 nozzles per channel for a total of 540 nozzles vs the POSaM's Epson 700 printhead that had only 192 nozzles 11:48 < CaptHindsight> the Epson spec in the POSaM doc does not apply 11:48 < CaptHindsight> the analog (DAC) board is for the Epson 700 11:49 < CaptHindsight> the new analog board will mop up anything that doesn't fit into the off the off the shelf Mesa cards 11:52 < CaptHindsight> I'm going to take my VHDL for the printhead control and build a block that will work with Mesa's hm2 blocks in the FPGA 11:53 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: gets the fun of writing a g-code generator that starts with DNA sequences 11:54 < CaptHindsight> and cuts them up into smaller pieces that will be printed onto the slides 11:54 < CaptHindsight> he gets to also generate the bitmaps for each print layer 12:28 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-urqaezmxuotwzjnv] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 12:44 < juri_> sounds like fun. ;) 12:47 -!- proofoflogic [uid65184@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uhapqoeczuwmqyuo] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 12:54 < kanzure> is the fpga going to have a gcode parser/interpreter? 12:59 < CaptHindsight> Linuxcnc does 12:59 < CaptHindsight> Linuxcnc does it all! well almost 13:00 < CaptHindsight> http://www.linuxcnc.org/binary.hybrid.iso 13:03 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?EMC_Components for a quick overview of how Linuxcnc is put together and features 13:04 < CaptHindsight> is has a simulators so you can preflight the printing 13:05 < CaptHindsight> you also get a choice of several GUI's 13:06 < CaptHindsight> you gave to decide if you want something all together new or just modify something that's been done for machine control 13:06 -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ektriyqhqwxknwal] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 13:22 < CaptHindsight> there is also a HAL to make it easy to configure and tie components or signals together 13:22 < CaptHindsight> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/intro.html 13:22 -!- Beatzebub is now known as Beatzebub|AFK 13:22 < CaptHindsight> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/basic_hal.html 13:23 < CaptHindsight> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/tutorial.html 13:23 < CaptHindsight> the DNA printer is pretty simple so the HAL config take only a few minutes 13:36 < kanzure> looking at hal things 13:37 < kanzure> "The command loadusr loads a user space HAL component. User space programs are their own separate processes, which optionally talk to other HAL components via pins and parameters. You cannot load real time components into user space." 13:38 < kanzure> ah i see, 13:38 < kanzure> "The command loadrt loads a real time HAL component. Real time component functions need to be added to a thread to be updated at the rate of the thread. You cannot load a user space component into the real time space." 13:38 < kanzure> okay then 13:39 < kanzure> aha, http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/halmodule.html 13:40 < kanzure> while 1: time.sleep(1); h['out'] = h['in'] 13:44 < kanzure> simple enough, fire up the patent machine..... 14:05 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:07 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hmlwkjnocukjlzgf] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:07 < kanzure> "Wood frog adaptations to overwintering in Alaska: new limits to freezing tolerance" http://jeb.biologists.org/content/217/12/2193.full 14:11 < kanzure> "Lower lethal temperatures in wood frogs have been reported as near −7°C (Layne et al., 1998), with a recent account, however, of survival of frogs from Alaska cooled to −16°C in the laboratory (Costanzo et al., 2013). In subarctic Interior Alaska, wood frogs overwinter in the subnivean space covered by duff and leaf litter (Kirton, 1974), where temperatures can remain below freezing for over 6 months with minima near −20°C ... 14:12 < kanzure> ... (Barnes et al., 1996; Sformo et al., 2010). These extreme temperatures combined with previously reported limits to freeze tolerance would suggest that high mortality of wood frogs occurs in Interior Alaska." 14:12 < kanzure> "We considered that wood frogs began to freeze when soil temperatures were below −1.6°C (lowest observed exotherm in 2011 and 2012) and thawed when temperatures were above −0.16°C, based on the melting point of wood frogs determined previously (Sinclair et al., 2013)." 14:12 < kanzure> melting point of wood frogs... well, okay. 14:15 < drethelin> heh 14:21 < kanzure> .wik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Roth_(scientist) 14:21 < yoleaux> kanzure: Sorry, that command (.wik) crashed. 14:22 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:22 < kanzure> dpk: isbugmuch 14:22 < dpk> god fucksake dammit 14:22 < dpk> why the fuck is that fucking broken 14:24 < kanzure> .wik http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Roth_(scientist) 14:24 < yoleaux> kanzure: Sorry, that command (.wik) crashed. 14:24 < kanzure> .wik mark roth (scientist) 14:24 < yoleaux> "Mark Roth (born 1957) is an American biochemist, and director of the Roth Lab at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center. He is a professor at the University of Washington." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Roth_(scientist) 14:25 < dpk> ah 14:31 -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37 < juri_> is there a page where we have documented which print head comes from which epson printer, or gotten that from the vendor? 14:38 < CaptHindsight> Epson 1430 and I can get them from the factory in bulk 14:38 < CaptHindsight> Epson only releases specs under multiple NDA's 14:38 -!- HEx [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:39 -!- HEx is now known as Guest31101 14:39 < CaptHindsight> the inkjet industry makes Intel and BIOS docs look like open source :) 14:39 -!- Guest31101 is now known as HEx1 14:39 < juri_> figgures. i had arleady standardized on the 440/600/640 for my PCB printing. 14:39 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:43 < CaptHindsight> we can print pcb's including the substrates and the conductors all from fluids 14:44 < CaptHindsight> it's more like multiwire than a pcb with layers since you're not plating and bonding multiple 2 layer boards together 14:45 < CaptHindsight> SLA + Injket 14:45 < CaptHindsight> it should cost less and be faster than traditional multilayer fabrication 14:46 < juri_> sounds like a winner to me. i was just laying down resist. 14:47 < CaptHindsight> it's another patent minefield 14:47 < juri_> I'm not interested in patents. in fact, i develop 3d printing technologies in the open explicitly to prevent others from patenting the good stuff. 14:48 < juri_> you watch my video yet? 14:48 < CaptHindsight> the aluminum? yes 14:49 < CaptHindsight> the problem is that others patent the obvious 14:50 < juri_> yes, the system is broken. 14:50 < CaptHindsight> even after watching your videos 14:50 < CaptHindsight> "hey I have a video on youtube for that process" 14:51 < juri_> it's good prior art.. :) 14:51 < CaptHindsight> too bad you did file since megacorp X did, now they have the patent, we invalidated your video 14:51 < CaptHindsight> did not file 14:51 < juri_> I've got a good lawyer for this... ;) 14:52 < CaptHindsight> the problem is that they don't look for prior art 14:52 < juri_> while it's not a situation i want to be in... 14:52 < CaptHindsight> or ignore it 14:52 < CaptHindsight> once they get the patent it's difficult to remove it 14:53 < CaptHindsight> yeah, it's very broken 14:53 < juri_> well then, let's invent this stuff, thes argue about what to do about it. ;) 15:00 < CaptHindsight> the inkjet is pretty simple 15:01 < CaptHindsight> V2 DNA synthesizer will be a bit more elaborate 15:01 < CaptHindsight> there are lots of tools to make for sub-micron manufacturing 15:02 < CaptHindsight> tools used to make much more complex machines 15:02 -!- Beatzebub|AFK is now known as Beatzebub 15:03 < juri_> we've been building a giant cnc setup here. we're going to mount lasers on it, but if you want me to help, i'll just add one of these inkjet heads. 15:03 < CaptHindsight> low cost Focused Ion Beam, SEM, lithography equipment, etc 15:04 < juri_> exxactly. hense, our SEM. 15:04 < juri_> do you happen to be in the DC area? 15:05 < CaptHindsight> I'm near Chicago and I'm often in China/Taiwan 15:05 < juri_> ah. no dice. :) 15:07 < juri_> tell, i'm a director of http://hacdc.org/ . our equipment is listed on the wiki, and as expected, our designs are all online. 15:07 < CaptHindsight> I usually work with industrial printheads 15:07 < CaptHindsight> so if the Epsons are a problem in the long run we can change to something else 15:09 < CaptHindsight> Fuji, Xaar, RPSA, Seiko, ITW etc 15:12 < juri_> so, are we thinking the mesa 5i24? 15:13 < CaptHindsight> 6i24 PCIe version 15:13 < CaptHindsight> same files as the 5i24 15:13 -!- CyberEater [~Genesteal@c-69-255-209-151.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:14 < CaptHindsight> I already talked to Mesa about using their new blocks for raster applications 15:16 < CaptHindsight> I didn't know they were working on something similar 15:17 < juri_> Interesting. 15:17 < juri_> do we have prices yet? i need to know how much i'm about to sink... 15:17 < juri_> my current FPGA is only half of one of those. 15:17 < CaptHindsight> I already have them 15:18 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@108.19.186.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:18 < juri_> neat. 15:20 < CaptHindsight> we build machines all the time 15:21 < kanzure> :-) 15:22 < CaptHindsight> mesa 6i24 is $140 15:22 < streety> I would love to see mass spec added to the list of low cost equipment to work on 15:22 < CaptHindsight> streety: yes another good one that is not too complicated 15:24 < streety> indeed 15:25 < kanzure> CaptHindsight: thanks for the links, makes 100% sense now 15:26 < kanzure> (HAL stuff) 15:26 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: no problem 15:26 < CaptHindsight> we won't even have to touch it except for the config file 15:26 < CaptHindsight> HAL can also run stand alone 15:26 < kanzure> HAL is how i'll do the integration with a custom application 15:27 < kanzure> to read/write on pins 15:27 < CaptHindsight> yeah, thats how it's done 15:28 < kanzure> i wonder if i can run linuxcnc in a virtual machine, without the realtime stuff 15:28 < CaptHindsight> if you don't need real time 15:28 < kanzure> ah good. i suspect not (for development). 15:29 < CaptHindsight> otherwise nope 15:29 < juri_> I'm way too used to just procgramming a microcontroller to do this stuff. 15:30 < juri_> you played with the propeller chips? 15:30 < kanzure> technically no 15:30 < kanzure> but don't tell nobody 15:30 < juri_> the VHDL is available, so we can always just upload one into the FPGA... 15:32 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: the SIM's will run on the VM 15:33 < CaptHindsight> so you can make your mods to HAL and test, just not in real time 15:34 < kanzure> excellent 15:34 < kanzure> we're going to have to name this thing 15:36 < kanzure> let's throw a few webcams into the system too 15:39 < kanzure> "oligoweaver" (yuck) 15:40 < CaptHindsight> olig-o-matic 15:40 < kanzure> i think that one might be taken already 15:40 < CaptHindsight> Ernie? 15:40 < kanzure> oh weird maybe not... dr. oligo is taken. 15:47 < kanzure> "deep space probe 3" (perhaps a little too absurd....) 15:56 < juri_> v'ger 12. 15:56 -!- erasmus [~esb@unaffiliated/erasmus] has quit [Quit: Namaste ] 16:00 < CaptHindsight> My First Little Oligo Printer 16:01 < CaptHindsight> Mr Mutate 16:01 < juri_> easy bake monster creation kit. 16:02 < kanzure> heh 16:02 < CaptHindsight> Hybrids-r-us 16:03 < CaptHindsight> the fun is yours 16:03 < kanzure> genesis 2 16:05 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:26 -!- Douhet [~Douhet@unaffiliated/douhet] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:26 -!- Douhet [~Douhet@unaffiliated/douhet] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:34 -!- BobaMa [~bobama@kapsi.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:34 -!- pasky [~pasky@nikam.ms.mff.cuni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:34 -!- pasky [~pasky@nikam.ms.mff.cuni.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:34 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35 -!- BobaMa [~bobama@kapsi.fi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:06 -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ckarasonpysmdemc] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:12 -!- proofoflogic [uid65184@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-trgyjteenmtzpizq] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:12 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@128-193-154-1.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:23 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vqbxlinqdnrfvdvb] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:30 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hmlwkjnocukjlzgf] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:30 < juri_> welp, i'm going to read all of this. the FPGA boards look like the right call. 18:36 < kanzure> peacemaker / piecemaker 18:39 < kanzure> "necessary evil" (just kidding... that name was used by uh, something else) 18:42 < kanzure> maybe it should be called "mutually assured peace" 18:42 < kanzure> "nucleic peacemaker" has a nice ring to it, i dunno 18:43 -!- abetusk [~abe@c-66-31-30-204.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:47 < juri_> We've got a drop detection system here for medical purposes that we've designed, based on an LED and photodiode. this system is using red lasers. hmmm... 18:49 < juri_> i guess the big question is just what parts of this you want help with, and what sort of time scale you're looking at. 18:50 < juri_> I'd like a microfluidic distribution system on my big printer, but not for the purposes of biology. I'm still building things. 18:50 < kanzure> turns out that he has all of the parts ready to go, just needs me to write a bitmap to HAL program 18:50 < kanzure> and some other gcode things that i'm not entirely clear about (perhaps my program is supposed to generate gcode?) 18:51 < CaptHindsight> either g-code or we use the same g-code 18:51 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@101.177.244.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51 < juri_> i noticed how primitive the waveform documentation is in this. 18:51 < CaptHindsight> with the same preplanned scans for the head 18:52 < CaptHindsight> and just the bipmap changes for each layer 18:52 < juri_> i mean, functionality first, but not enough math. 18:53 < CaptHindsight> juri_: they were working without specs for the printhead 18:54 < CaptHindsight> plus they were using a printhead from 3-4 generations ago 18:54 < juri_> do you want a better spec for the printhead you're dealing with? 18:54 -!- justanot1eruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:54 < kanzure> CaptHindsight: so is my program responsible for generating gcode and sending it down the pins? 18:54 < CaptHindsight> no, I'm all set 18:55 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: linuxcnc takes the gcode for motion control 18:55 < juri_> wow. ok, so you don't need my help afterall. ;) 18:55 < kanzure> but then how does the gcode keep in sync with the other commands? 18:55 < CaptHindsight> we can use custom M codes to tell the printhead controller when a scan has started 18:56 < CaptHindsight> what the printhead controller needs is the strip of bitmap for each scan pass in the direction it is traveling 18:56 < CaptHindsight> the strip that matches the print swath of the printhead 18:58 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@101.177.244.210] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:59 < CaptHindsight> the g-code interpreter in Linuxcnc will handle all the motion commands, and it can toggle a pin in HAL when it gets M code to tell the printhead controller when it is going to start a scan 19:00 < CaptHindsight> then the printhead controller will need the bitmap for that scan 19:00 < CaptHindsight> the printhead controller will be synched to the encoder output that can be gated by HAL 19:01 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:02 < CaptHindsight> but to directly answer you question, the gcode gets run by Linuxcnc line by line 19:03 < CaptHindsight> Linuxcnc is keeping track of the machine position by counting pulses from the encoders 19:03 -!- gmaxwell [greg@wikimedia/KatWalsh/x-0001] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 19:04 < CaptHindsight> when Linuxcnc reaches the end of the last command it runs the next command 19:06 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@128-193-154-1.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:07 < CaptHindsight> be back in a bit 19:13 -!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:27 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@128-193-154-1.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:31 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:32 < kanzure> oh, linuxcnc generates gcode in real-time as well? hm. got any links? 19:34 < wrldpc1> Richard Stallman has the strangest list of demands for giving a speech I have ever read. 19:34 < wrldpc1> .title https://groups.google.com/a/mysociety.org/forum/#!msg/mysociety-community/zkyZpOXjgoQ/_8xyXSxv9zYJ 19:34 < yoleaux> Google Groups 19:34 < wrldpc1> ^ heh 19:34 < kanzure> lots of people have various demands like that 19:34 < kanzure> my demand list is "just let me speak" at the moment 19:35 < kanzure> oh and pay me 19:35 < kanzure> and wine and dine me i think 19:35 < kanzure> .. hm maybe i should write these down. 19:35 < wrldpc1> :) 19:35 < wrldpc1> “If you can find a host for me that has a friendly parrot, I will be 19:35 < wrldpc1> very very glad. If you can find someone who has a friendly parrot I 19:35 < wrldpc1> can visit with, that will be nice too.” 19:36 < drethelin> heh 19:36 < wrldpc1> I need to learn how to irc. 19:37 < drethelin> that kind of thing might be just a check 19:37 < drethelin> to see if they read all his demands 19:37 < wrldpc1> haha yeah 19:43 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@128-193-154-1.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:47 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@128-193-154-1.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:48 -!- helleshin [~talinck@66-161-138-110.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:58 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@101.177.244.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:59 < wrldpc1> What is the coolest or most notable research currently being conducted at SRI? 19:59 < wrldpc1> Also .. 20:00 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@101.177.244.210] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:01 < wrldpc1> My San Fran trip next month is still on. I know I asked this before (and I got a lot of good feedback) but if anyone has any access to any strange/interesting science/technology-related places please holler at me. Does anyone know anyone at Cambrian Genomics who could arrange a visit? On my list so far .. Tech Museum of Innovation, Noisebridge, Google (S.F. offices), The Computer Museum, Moffett Field (Ames Research tour) 20:02 < wrldpc1> I’d like to get more substantive access to Google .. particularly Moffett Google but know no one. PARC, Tesla, Apple, Pixar .. all on my list as well. 20:02 < wrldpc1> SRI as well but I feel like I need some reason beyond “I’m interested in science.” 20:06 -!- super` [~super@66.55.76.55] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:09 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: Linuxcnc does not generate G-code 20:10 < CaptHindsight> G-code is input to Linuxcnc and the interpreter turns that into motion 20:11 < CaptHindsight> I think I'll have to write up a spec on our options for the G-code 20:13 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:14 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: what you or someone will have to write is a G-code generator that start with oligo sequences 20:15 < CaptHindsight> then take those sequences and break them up into target locations on the tray 20:16 < CaptHindsight> each base layer looks like it has a pretty similar preset routine 20:19 < CaptHindsight> if the drop size and nozzle pitch match what the sample patterns are then you can fire up to 90 of the same base channel nozzles at the same time 20:20 < CaptHindsight> if the nozzel pitch for the other channels also lines up to the sample patterns then you can fire 4 base channels at the same time (90 nozzles to each channel) 20:23 < CaptHindsight> G-codes for the positions of the samples, M-codes to fire drops 20:24 < CaptHindsight> M-codes to turn the drying nozzles on and off 20:25 < CaptHindsight> M-codes to turn wash solenoids on/off 20:25 < super`> Hi, I've assembled an OpenPCR.. and I'm wondering what would be the best approach to get a readout on my saliva as a test.. is the gel electrophoresis with agarose gel still the best approach? (FYI: The DNA Computing course I took was ~15yrs ago and didn't have any lab time, so I know the theory but lack in practical) Are there better ways to get a readout now? 20:27 < super`> ..and I'm more interested in working with oligo on combinatorial problems than I am Bioinformatics (once I'm sure my setup works, if that [D[Dmakes a difference) 20:29 < kanzure> CaptHindsight: okay understood. so once i generate the gcode, the fpga will interpret the gcode? or should i interpret the gcode and convert to pin firing patterns. 20:30 < kanzure> oh wait, nevermind. you already answered this. 20:30 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: linuxcnc will interpret the motion G-code and be able to toggle pins for M-codes 20:31 < CaptHindsight> but we still have to sync bit maps in a frame buffer to the positions of the printhead or drying nozzles 20:31 < CaptHindsight> the printer will need 2 files 20:32 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:32 < CaptHindsight> one being G-code, and the other being bit maps for all the layers of printing 20:32 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:33 < kanzure> i'll have to figure out how to dump gcode in real-time into linuxcnc. looking... 20:33 < CaptHindsight> along with that there are all subroutines for operations like PURGE, WASH, DRY etc 20:34 < CaptHindsight> all the G-code gets put in up front, or can be 20:34 < CaptHindsight> and all the bitmaps can be in memory 20:35 < CaptHindsight> I guess you can send G-code line by line into linuxcnc but then you lose the trajectory planner stuff beyond one line 20:35 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:35 < kanzure> looks like linuxcnc expects to consume gcode by stdout (line by line) 20:36 < CaptHindsight> not to big a deal since we aren't planning on printing arcs 20:37 < CaptHindsight> i was thinking that you would slave the printing to the G-code and position info 20:37 < kanzure> there's no need to include valve toggles in gcode output if the program is just toggling valves using HAL anyway 20:37 < kanzure> or, the other way around, which is: there's no need to use HAL if the gcode output includes the valve toggles 20:37 < kanzure> perhaps that's not true 20:37 < kanzure> hm 20:38 < CaptHindsight> yeah toggling an IO is just part of G-code 20:38 < kanzure> ok 20:38 < abetusk> is there any reason you're using linuxcnc vs. something else, like arduino + grbl, marlin or smotthieboard? 20:39 < CaptHindsight> or can be done by HAL 20:39 < kanzure> "HAL pin I/O (M62-M68)." 20:39 < CaptHindsight> yes, Linuxcnc does it all, if someone wants to go nuts with a duino they can follow a working example 20:41 -!- knobuddy [~IceChat9@unaffiliated/knobuddy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:41 < CaptHindsight> I look at it this way. Linuxcnc is your 5000 pc tool set, if you want to only focus on the 100 pcs that you only think you need now then use a micro 20:41 -!- Viper168_ is now known as Viper168 20:42 < kanzure> hm looks like it might have a concept of streaming gcode maybe 20:43 < CaptHindsight> it's an open design so you're free to use drawer slides, hot melt for framing, wooden parts etc if you wish 20:43 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: some people do over ethernet 20:44 < kanzure> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/python-interface.html 20:44 < kanzure> "gcodes: (returns tuple of 16 integers) - currently active G-codes." 20:51 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:53 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@128-193-154-1.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:56 -!- Quashie [~boingredd@50.14.92.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:57 < CaptHindsight> abetusk: how is the support on duino or smoothie for closed loop/servos? 20:57 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@128-193-154-1.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:59 < abetusk> afaik in terms of grbl and smoothie it assumes stepper. I don't know about marlin and such but I assume they assume the same. Don't take my word for it but that's what I've seen. 21:00 < abetusk> They all assume low end steppers and such. The smoothie has a4982 chips on board 21:00 < CaptHindsight> we are going to be done with this whole printer in weeks, maybe someone will spend months reinventing the wheel for a micro 21:01 < abetusk> It depends on what you mean by reinventing the wheel. You're using linuxcnc to control closed loop servos? 21:01 < CaptHindsight> there could be enough problems with chemistry and yield, we don't need any with machine control on top of it 21:02 < super`> is this conversation about the project i saw on kickstarter for automating lab work? 21:03 < super`> OpenTrons 21:03 < CaptHindsight> super`: no, but is the one you saw made of t-slot and yeah..... 21:03 < super`> i don't know.. 21:04 < CaptHindsight> I hope they are working an easy for lab worker to use front end 21:04 < CaptHindsight> everything else is done 21:04 < CaptHindsight> we use G-code and Linuxcnc to make custom lab robots all the time 21:05 < CaptHindsight> their project made it sound like they have some sort of breakthrough 21:05 < CaptHindsight> like makerbot 21:05 < abetusk> people had reprap before makerbot 21:06 < CaptHindsight> linuxcnc or ladder logic + PLC is common 21:06 < super`> yah.. that site was sort of deceptive.. they tried to make it seem like they created self-replicating automata or something 21:07 < super`> but it just prints the parts from what i could see 21:07 < CaptHindsight> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/932664050/opentrons-open-source-rapid-prototyping-for-biolog 21:07 < CaptHindsight> just a Cartesian 3 axis stage with a t-slot frame 21:08 < CaptHindsight> a couple of syringe pumps are mounted on it 21:08 < CaptHindsight> you can get all that off the shelf for years 21:09 < abetusk> Why the hate? They're trying to make an appliance for people who don't want to 21:09 < CaptHindsight> looks like belt drive with steppers 21:09 < CaptHindsight> no hate 21:09 < CaptHindsight> it's just nothing new unless they are making some easier to use software 21:10 < CaptHindsight> most t-slot distributors will design that same system for you in a few days 21:12 < CaptHindsight> hopefully they will have some software 21:17 < CaptHindsight> " Mix.Bio, Download and share biology protocols to run on the OT.One. coming soon!" 21:18 < CaptHindsight> maybe an easy to use set of G-codes for lab operations 21:19 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@128-193-154-1.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:21 < drethelin> lab techs getting obselete 21:22 < CaptHindsight> are they using monkeys instead just like PC manufacturers? :) 21:22 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@128-193-154-1.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:22 < CaptHindsight> drethelin: are machines replacing them? 21:38 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@128-193-154-1.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:46 -!- Porb [~Porbus@CPE-124-180-167-154.lns6.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:51 -!- Guest82433 [~blueskin@2001:41d0:1:9185::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:54 -!- blueskin [~blueskin@2001:41d0:1:9185::1] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:54 -!- blueskin is now known as Guest5431 21:59 -!- Guest5431 [~blueskin@2001:41d0:1:9185::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:00 -!- blueskin1 [~blueskin@2001:41d0:1:9185::1] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:00 < CaptHindsight> juri_: I'm working on an lathe type inkjet printer to make parts larger than this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4Ok0LQx0Uc 22:01 -!- blueskin1 is now known as Guest34971 22:01 < kanzure> cool 22:01 < CaptHindsight> 8m long, 2m dia and ~10 ton parts 22:02 < kanzure> CaptHindsight: unnamed oligomakerthing user interface will be web-based. probably i'll use websockets for streaming data reasons. 22:03 -!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-9-188.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05 < kanzure> CaptHindsight: i think either we should talk about or the document should talk about who's going to be ordering the phosphoramidites, argon, acetonitrile, etc., and also about testing procedures- for example, there's probably going to be a few iterations of "mail dna into some other company" for testing 22:06 < kanzure> this isn't a big deal; it's just unspecified and something we haven't hashed out 22:06 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: are you able to order the chems? 22:06 < kanzure> unknown- but if i am, i'm probably going to be shipping them to you :-) 22:06 < kanzure> also; it's not clear to me whether you want to keep the machine? 22:06 < CaptHindsight> it's yours 22:07 < kanzure> right but keep as in host 22:07 < CaptHindsight> I thought you had a space for it 22:07 < CaptHindsight> lets see 22:08 < kanzure> put another way; say it works and prints dna, aren't you going to want to use it? 22:08 < CaptHindsight> it'll work 22:09 < CaptHindsight> lets talk 22:09 < CaptHindsight> about where will this end up 22:09 < kanzure> heh 22:09 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:09 < kanzure> btw drying nozzles are going to blow away the chemicals unless they are tied to the surface 22:10 < CaptHindsight> if there is enough pressure 22:11 < kanzure> i'd also like to figure out tighter target specs for number of spots per run 22:11 < kanzure> repeatability of 10 microns means 10 micron spacing between center of each spot? 22:12 < CaptHindsight> some of this is TBD like spaces and size of each well 22:12 < kanzure> ok 22:12 < CaptHindsight> repeatability of dropping on drop on top of another 22:13 < CaptHindsight> drop size at 1.5pL will be ~75um, well depending on the surface tension 22:13 < kanzure> you haven't estimated cost of argon, reagents, etc., right? 22:13 < CaptHindsight> not included 22:13 < kanzure> ok 22:13 < CaptHindsight> no chems or gas 22:13 < CaptHindsight> just the guts 22:13 < kanzure> worked with gas before? 22:14 < CaptHindsight> plenty 22:14 < kanzure> win 5 22:15 < kanzure> whoops 22:15 < kanzure> irc fail 22:15 < CaptHindsight> we have lost of mixes here for welding, reactors etc 22:15 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:16 < CaptHindsight> I think it needs a home where it will have a frequent user like yourself 22:18 < kanzure> understood. i'll have to think about optimal place to put it- nmz787, juri_, juul, etc. 22:20 < CaptHindsight> I'll probably build a V2 down the line 22:20 < CaptHindsight> version 2, not the WWII rocket 22:25 -!- Porb_ [~Porbus@CPE-124-176-219-129.lns5.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:26 < kanzure> hmm i guess i should organize my list of "dna things i want to print" projects 22:26 < kanzure> all i gots are http://diyhpl.us/wiki/genetic-modifications/ 22:26 < kanzure> and http://diyhpl.us/wiki/dna/projects 22:27 < kanzure> although i sort of need to know how much i can print, to pick good projects 22:27 < kanzure> hm. vicious cycle. 22:28 -!- Porb [~Porbus@CPE-124-180-167-154.lns6.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:30 < kanzure> we really need to aim for some target number of spots, or else it's always going to be cheaper to just order 100 bp from a current vendor 22:30 < CaptHindsight> is anyone making GMO yeasts for brewing? 22:31 < kanzure> yes.... someone made a non-alcoholic brew? i don't remember the details. i wonder who did that... 22:31 < kanzure> was that yashgaroth? or maybe anselm... 22:35 < CaptHindsight> nozzle spacing is 282um (1/90") 22:37 < kanzure> well if we can fire at 50 kHz then really it's a matter of step size or something... hmm. 22:37 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@128-193-154-1.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:37 < CaptHindsight> so ~1m is possible on the 12" x 12" tray 22:37 < CaptHindsight> epson aren't that fast 22:39 < CaptHindsight> IIRC ~14Khz is max 22:40 < kanzure> oops 22:40 < CaptHindsight> the $3K-10K printheads fire to 50khz and more 22:41 < CaptHindsight> now thats 14khz per channel so 14khz x 90 = 1.2m drops per second 22:42 < CaptHindsight> thats with ideal fluids 22:42 < CaptHindsight> we have to jet what we get and it's shear luck that they jet ok 22:47 < kanzure> gotta sleep, brb 22:51 -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@128-193-154-1.ptpg.oregonstate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:05 -!- Beatzebub [~beatzebub@d162-156-106-225.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Beatzebub] 23:10 -!- Douhet [~Douhet@unaffiliated/douhet] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:11 -!- Douhet [~Douhet@unaffiliated/douhet] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:20 -!- EnLilaSko [~Nattzor@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Mon Jul 13 00:00:09 2015