--- Log opened Fri Aug 07 00:00:33 2015
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01:06 < xtalmath> kanzure: so then you know the nano-engineer code base pretty well?
01:08  * justanotheruser tunes in
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03:46 < kanzure> xtalmath: eh, i suppose
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03:47 < xtalmath> is it complicated? are there manuals/papers on the algorithms used?
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04:02 < kanzure> no manuals and no papers, used to be a wiki but if i have a copy then it's not deployed
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04:12 < kanzure> it's pretty poorly written though
04:12 < kanzure> no separation of gui and non-gui components
04:12 < kanzure> not enough unit testing
04:17 < kanzure> why don't we have any figurehead promoting the "proteins are molecular nanotechnology, you fools!" propaganda line?
04:18 < kanzure> surely there should be at least one person smearing smalley and drexler's face in that
04:23 < xtalmath> when is was at the end of high school around 2004 or so I was dreaming of exactly this nanoengineer software kind of thing, I wish I discovered it then
04:24 < xtalmath> I wanted to design at molecular level, but my chemistry is still bad, and went off to study physics at uni
04:27 < archels> kanzure: because it's rather a different type of beast than what the Drexler crowd is after? Cogs and pistons and assembly lines versus a biological soup.
04:28 < xtalmath> I think both approaches need to be explored
04:30 < kanzure> nanoengineer was started around 2004 hehe
04:30 < kanzure> archels: you can make those with proteins
04:30 < xtalmath> kanzure: what is its history? I see no wikipedia page etc
04:30 < kanzure> nanorex was a company developing nanoengineer from 2004 to 2008
04:30 < kanzure> dumping in about $1M/year in development expenses
04:31 < kanzure> when nanorex shutdown, i asked them if they would apply an open-source license and give me everything and they said sure
04:32 < xtalmath> does it support 'templates' / features ? like structures of bulk, and plane patterns etc? perhaps functional like OpenSCAD?
04:32 < xtalmath> kanzure: it is good you did that
04:32 < kanzure> i hate openscad with a fiery passion
04:32 < xtalmath> :)
04:32 < kanzure> but no at the moment it does not afaik
04:33 < kanzure> for cad i highly recommend using something like verbnurbs, solvespace, brlcad or otherwise just use solidworks
04:33 < kanzure> i was planning on eventually porting nanoengineer stuff into lolcad (my own nurbs cad kernel library) but that hasn't happened yet
04:34 < kanzure> and opencascade is almost entirely worthless http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cad/opencascade/
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04:38 < kanzure> xtalmath: technologiclee made a few tutorials about using nanoengineer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqfXzTrwI3c
04:39 < xtalmath> i was just watching that, but somewhere in the middle only sound goes on
04:39 < xtalmath> might be my player or smth
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04:42 < kanzure> there's audio.
04:42 < kanzure> here is one without audio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_seYUz9tfo
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04:44 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj6ObJWRuq8
04:44 < yoleaux> mechanosynthesis with penta-adamantane - YouTube
04:44 < kanzure> eww he was using blender https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zhoe_OLaqSY
04:46 < archels> we don't like Blender?
04:46 < xtalmath> http://rosettadesigngroup.org/workshops/RCW2008/presentations/RosettaCon2008-Nanorex.pdf hm
04:46 < kanzure> blender is just not cad
04:46 < xtalmath> the video without audio was awesome
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04:47 < archels> mhm. ymmv
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04:49 < kanzure> ah that's right you are modeling neurons in blender
04:49 < kanzure> enjoy your bag of triangles
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04:52 < xtalmath> the wiki is probably findable: https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.nanorex.com
04:53 < archels> but, but, I like triangles
04:54 < xtalmath> nah nothing
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05:13 < kanzure> xtalmath: i probably have a backup of that wiki, but it's not presently available online
05:14 < xtalmath> it is for interface specifically, or the wiki might also contain documented algorithms? how can the algorithms be improved / corrected / optimized if they are not documented?
05:14 < kanzure> not sure what algorithms you think are involveed
05:14 < kanzure> all of the simulation stuff was just gromacs and nanodynamics and nanohive
05:14 < xtalmath> orbitals or smth?
05:15 < xtalmath> oh
05:15 < xtalmath> so it is an interface to used with gromacs etc backends?
05:15 < justanotheruser> is nanoengineer even worth maintaining?
05:15 < justanotheruser> or would it be better just to write an alternative from scratch
05:16 < kanzure> justanotheruser: would be better to do a rewrite + cannabalize
05:16 < kanzure> xtalmath: gromacs is only used for the simulation portion. the cad modeling is custom.
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05:17 < xtalmath> gromacs/nanodynamics/nanohive are included, or dependencies?
05:17 < kanzure> gromacs is a separate dependency
05:17 < kanzure> nanohive/nanodynamics are included i think
05:19 < kanzure> wellll not a dependency, more like a plugin that can be ccalled. but not a plugin. just a third-party tool. another library to use.
05:29 < xtalmath> yeah, like choosing a compiler
05:32 < justanotheruser> xtalmath: did you find this channel through reddit?
05:33 < kanzure> hackaday.
05:34 < xtalmath> is it possible to generate equation of state from a molecule design?
05:34 < justanotheruser> ah. I ask because I found this channel when trying to find out what life nanoengineer had and found out that you were the "maintainer"
05:34 < justanotheruser> linked on reddit
05:34 < xtalmath> justanotheruser: no, I found it through HAD
05:34 < xtalmath> justanotheruser: I am not the maintainer, kanzure is
05:34 < kanzure> justanotheruser: pretty sure we met through bitcoin
05:35 < justanotheruser> kanzure: I guarantee not
05:36 < justanotheruser> I was in this channel before it was #bitcoin cool
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05:39 < justanotheruser> http://www.reddit.com/r/nanotech/comments/153l6g/how_close_or_far_away_are_we_from_reaching_eric_k/c7m0mhw
05:39 < justanotheruser> some time after december 2012 I joined, that's all I know
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05:57 < kanzure> wow someone read the readme wtf
05:59 < xtalmath> ah here it is https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.nanoengineer-1.com/content/
06:14 < justanotheruser> kanzure: you have a copy of the wiki still?
06:15 < justanotheruser> Seems like something that would be good to host on the diyhpl.us wiki
06:15 < gradstudentbot> I really like him, but some of his work is really problematic.
06:20 < kanzure> yes i have a copy of the wiki somewhere
06:31 < eudoxia> gradstudentbot has caught up with the times :)
06:31 < gradstudentbot> Yeah, it's significant.
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07:12 < xtalmath> I wonder if molecular dynamics software can calculate chemical reaction rates?
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07:23 < fenn> wish more hackerspaces were like this: http://www.makeitlabs.com/about/equipment/
07:31 < kanzure> you mean an inventory
07:32 < kanzure> very high bar there
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07:55 < fenn> "there should be at least one person smearing smalley and drexler's face in that" <- smalley's dead and drexler is saying "proteins are molecular nanotechnology, you fools!" on his blog
08:00 < eudoxia> yeah drexler's already caved
08:00 < eudoxia> rip diamond mnt 1992-2015
08:00 < fenn> Upon his death, the US Senate passed a resolution to honor Smalley, crediting him as the “Father of Nanotechnology.”
08:01 < fenn> but we've always been at war with mechanosynthesis
08:01 < eudoxia> aaaaa
08:01 < eudoxia> another reason to nuke congress today
08:01 < kanzure> hmm well i'm glad drexler came around i guess
08:01 < kanzure> but why don't we have protein legos yet?
08:02 < kanzure> too expensive to have that many binding pairs custom synthesized?
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08:04 < JayDugger> "fenn: but we've always been at war with mechanosynthesis" awesome.
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08:18 < delinquentme> https://www.flickr.com/photos/59431731@N05/albums Album of really cool peacock spiders
08:18 < delinquentme> If anyone wants to start a synthetic bio startup and engineering these little guys I'm totally down for it. ... Also orchids.
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08:19 < delinquentme> Pursue truly modular genomics. : how to change displayed colors, petal counts other design-level morphology
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09:13 < delinquentme> "A "True" HEPA Filters's efficiency DOES NOT decrease during it's life, it actually increases and its also known as an ABSOLUTE type filter media for particle capturing."
09:13 < delinquentme> this cant be right..
09:13 < delinquentme> never mind. lol
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10:42 < CaptHindsight> "The fact that two different chemical combinations are able to transform skin cells into neurons suggests that this technique can compete with gene insertions for cellular reprogramming" http://news.sciencemag.org/brain-behavior/2015/08/chemical-treatment-transforms-skin-cells-neurons
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11:02 < kanzure> huh?
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11:11 < kanzure> you can replace queens in a bee hive and everyone's okay with that? alright..
11:21 < xtalmath> CaptHindsight: what does that even mean? something like transcription factors?
11:28 < kanzure> well it's probably talking about oct8 and such
11:29 < kanzure> "compete with gene insertions" is ambiguous
11:34 < kanzure> yashgaroth: also it would be interesting to see if mutant toxoplasma gondii could do anything interesting with whale brain matter (there's a lot of it), or octopus brain matter (not as much but that can be easily fixed with a few generations of octopus egg selection)
11:35 < kanzure> yashgaroth: particularly, the greater brain mass means there could be more cysts or at least more bacteria to find weird places to try to pinch or influence.
11:35 < kanzure> s/greater brain mass/greater brain volume
11:39 < kanzure> octopus would be more useful because what are you going to do with a smart whale anyway
11:47 < drethelin> hire them to do mathematics research
11:48 < drethelin> the problem with octopi is lifespan
11:48 < drethelin> hmm
11:48 < drethelin> intelligent whales can be used as deep sea research helpers
11:48 < drethelin> or for military applications
11:48 < drethelin> they live for a long time and have a good memory so they can also remember codes and possible overhear submarines
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12:05 < xtalmath> good memory... perhaps mine maidsafe coins
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12:14 < drethelin> oh, if the oceans survive a meteor impact or nuclear war maybe whales can be a repository of cultural infomration
12:14 < kanzure> drethelin: making a clever nooted-up creature with almost zero communication bandwidth seems like a form of torture
12:15 < xtalmath> heh
12:15 < drethelin> don't whales have nearly as high bandwidth as us?
12:15 < drethelin> they sing and talk to each other
12:15 < kanzure> i guess they can scream
12:15 < kanzure> er, sing
12:15 < drethelin> I guess they can't read/write
12:16 < kanzure> but so far we haven't been able to use talking as a high-bandwidth method of interacting with computers (i mean... except for some proprietary junk)
12:16 < xtalmath> they can modulate water spouting?
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12:17 < xtalmath> perhaps we can use them to spout water back into the mediterranean?
12:17 < kanzure> octopus optical skin modulation seems like a sufficiently high-bandwidth communication method to have available
12:21 < xtalmath> i wonder to what extent it can control individual "pixels" or if it really has just a couple of signals under control. (consider a 2d intensity plot of a*sin(x^2+y^2)+b*cos(x^2+y^2). it could look impressive but only have 2 signals as a function of time a(t) and b(t)...
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12:23 < xtalmath> if they could talk we could ask them to draw specific patterns
12:25 < kanzure> there was a paper about this somewhere.... one sec.
12:25 < kanzure> maybe http://www.mbl.edu/pspb/files/2014/05/sutherland_opt_soc08a.pdf
12:25 < kanzure> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRv0J4aEoC4
12:27 < kanzure> also, backyardbrains hooked up some chromatophores and skin to an oscilloscope or something https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-OVrI9x8Zs
12:27 < kanzure> this might be less annoying http://news.backyardbrains.com/2012/08/insane-in-the-chromatophores/
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12:31 < kanzure> there was something published about how chromatophore coloration changes were really just the octopus squeezing or clenching in different ways, it was under motor control
12:31 < kanzure> perhaps http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF00216498
12:32 < kanzure> "Cephalopod chromatophores are made of a central pigment cell surrounded by 10 to 20 radially arranged muscle fibres under direct nervous control. Innervation of these muscle fibres was studied with anterograde cobalt fills of peripheral nerve bundles and light and electron microscopy. Individual axons branch repeatedly to innervate the muscles of chromatophores scattered over several millimeters. Axons contained in several dermal nerves ...
12:32 < kanzure> ... converge to innervate the same chromatophores. Among the chromaophores, axons were found running either singly or in small bundles, often accompanied by sheath cells. Single chromatophore muscles were innervated by at least one axon running across or along its length. Since nerves terminating on chromatophore muscles are very rare, neuromuscular contact seems to be made “en passant”. Varicosities of the axons apposed to the ...
12:32 < kanzure> ... muscles are thought to be presynaptic sites. However, morphological differentiations of the pre-or post-synaptic membranes were not visible. Two types of innervating processes were found containing either electron-clear or a mixture of electron-clear and dark-core synaptic vesicles."
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12:39 < CaptHindsight> xtalmath: looks like it from the actual paper  http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1934590915003057
12:39 < xtalmath> kanzure: that is amazing
12:43 < xtalmath> that second video says "For our friends in Germany, we uploaded to Vimeo as well https://vimeo.com/48183535" in the description. no youtube in germany?
12:47 < kanzure> dpk: ping
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13:02 < nmz787_w> .title http://www.paulvanouse.com/dwpcr.html
13:02 < yoleaux> Deep Woods PCR
13:04 < nmz787_w> "During thermocycling, I attempt to channel Mullis. The fluorescent green raccoon in the adjacent image, played by Rafael Vanouse, repeatedly chants “amplify the source, not the signal.”  The phrase refers to the genius of PCR for DNA analysis.  Prior to PCR, scientists seeking to visually analyze DNA fragments needed to radioactively label target sequences and typically they sought better imaging apparatus or stronger r
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13:04 < nmz787_w> " on the other hand, realizes that DNA regions could be amplified exponentially by successively initiating the DNA transcription process and thus greatly enhance any imaging or analytical process.  In his autobiography, Mullis credits frequent LSD experimentation as central to his own personal and scientific development.  He also describes a subsequent, enigmatic, deep-woods abduction by a flourescent, extra-terestrial racco
13:04 < nmz787_w> tor".
13:04 < nmz787_w> I'm not sure that "amplify the source, not the signal" is a very good chant.... the latter noun should be noise, not signal
13:05 < nmz787_w> or something
13:05 < nmz787_w> amplify the signal, not the noise
13:05 < nmz787_w> or... amplify the signal, not the whole
13:08 < nmz787_w> "First, I incubated water from the famed natural hotsprings of the Banff region hoping to discover living Thermus Acquaticus bacteria in its warm, sulfuric waters.  "
13:08 < nmz787_w> "My hunch of the bacteria’s presence proved correct, but incubation proved slow at the campsite as the available incubator couldn’t hold the 70 degree Celsius, ideal temperature for incubation, nor could it agitate the samples to facilitate their respiration and colony formation.  Thus, the Taq enzyme used in the subsequent experiment wasn’t the same as that which I fished out.  (Alas, I think this may be the basis of 
13:08 < ParahSailin_> wow, just get taq from atcc
13:11 < nmz787_w> he was in the canadian rockies
13:11 < ParahSailin_> "An iPod plays music by converting digital music to a small current that it sends to tiny magnets in the earbuds. The magnets are connected to cones that vibrate and produce sound." wait i thought it was piezos
13:12 < ParahSailin_> magnets is for speakers significantly larger than the earhole
13:12 < nmz787_w> i've taken apart earbuds and can verify they are sometimes voice coils
13:12 < nmz787_w> they have a LOT of wirelength in those tiny things
13:12 < nmz787_w> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDM0wxuGiEo
13:12 < yoleaux> Paul Vanouse, Deep Woods PCR - YouTube
13:13 < nmz787_w> 30 mins
13:13 < gradstudentbot> I was sponsored by George Church. That is, until I fell through the wormhole at the far end of the lab.
13:13 < ParahSailin_> wow ok
13:15 < dpk> xtalmath, kanzure: probably to do with the blocking of videos with copyrighted music in Germany
13:15 < dpk> .wik GEMA Youtube dispute
13:15 < yoleaux> dpk: Sorry, that command (.wik) crashed.
13:15 < dpk> bah
13:15 < dpk> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocking_of_YouTube_videos_in_Germany
13:20 < xtalmath> ParahSailin_: I have never seen earbuds with piezo's inside, except for the old crystal radio sets. normal headphones use coils, i have never seen piezo's in them, although it's been a while since I opened some, so perhaps nowadays they found a way to get bass from piezo?
13:21 < gradstudentbot> That's not really surprising since they did it ex vivo.
13:23 < nmz787_w> chris_99: you're on hackaday again! http://hackaday.com/2015/08/07/hacker-reads-magnetic-stripe-card-with-flatbed-scanner/
13:23 < nmz787_w> second time in what, 3 months???
13:23 < xtalmath> lol, scam alert "Conversely, it can be questioned how much of this lost revenue would  have actually benefitted GEMA members, given that licencing agreements  in other territories are subject to a confidentiality agreement that  prevents even the membership of the collecting societies from knowing  the royalty rates."
13:24 < chris_99> :) nmz787 btw, did you ever get your blue spectrometer to work btw?
13:29 < xtalmath> chris_99: you could probably use that to recover data from HDD after head crashes? with microscope? I think people pay much for data back.
13:30 < chris_99> the iron powder seems far too big, even for a floppy disk i think
13:31 < xtalmath> perhaps theres a nanoparticle version?
13:31 < chris_99> possibly, it was you who mentioned the kerr effect to me i think? i got the book you mentioned
13:32 < nmz787_w> chris_99: not yet, but I /did/ setup my office shelf and unpack a bunch of boxes onto it last weekend... one of which was that spectrometer. As I recall you wanted me to image something... beer maybe?
13:32 < chris_99> cool :) yeah even water compared to whisky
13:32 < chris_99> or something
13:32 < chris_99> would be great
13:33 < chris_99> i regret paying for the kickstarter SCiO thing, i should have just got the blue spectrometer
13:35 < xtalmath> ah yes was me
13:35 < chris_99> in that book theres a diagram of a laser pointer polariser and PIN photodiode
13:35 < chris_99> might try that
13:35 < chris_99> (for the kerr effect)
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13:36 < delinquentme> http://www.who.int/csr/disease/ebola/photos/guinea-vaccines-large2.jpg?ua=1
13:36 < delinquentme> apparently the use jet fuel to keep these things cold
13:37 < delinquentme> I'm wondering if this is because of thermal load + thermal stability
13:37 < delinquentme> possibly also geographic availability
13:37 < gradstudentbot> Am I going to be first author?
13:37 < delinquentme> but I find it really curious that there aren't more alternatives
13:38 < gradstudentbot> Friends don't let friends go to super school.
13:42 < erasmus> or Walmart.
13:43 < xtalmath> "A common way of viewing blocked videos in Germany is to use browser add-ons that fake a foreign IP address," uh what? how does a browser fake an IP?
13:43 < chris_99> heh, i guess it just means proxy
13:43 < xtalmath> no because next sentence is "Another way is to go through a foreign proxy or VPN server, such as Hotspot Shield, CyberGhost, or Spotflux. "
13:43 < chris_99> oh weird
13:43 < xtalmath> totally!
13:44 < kanzure> wikipedia wrong? tell me it isn't so.
13:45 < xtalmath> it is, but I am too lazy to fix it. unless it isn't and I need to relearn computer networks a bit
13:46 < kanzure> plus your change will be reverted anyway, because there's more journalists that have printed the wrong thing than the right thing
13:46 < chris_99> haha
13:47 < chris_99> i wonder if the wikpedia xml dumps have all the versions, so you can see how many times things have been reverted
13:47 < xtalmath> if money is protected by copyright, then how is counterfeit illegal in countries that do not recognize copyright?
13:48 < xtalmath> chris_99: I think you can choose which kind of dump
13:48  * xtalmath has an old copy lying around somewhere in case internet is broken
13:50 < chris_99> heh good plan
13:51 < xtalmath> it's just download once kind of effort, without having to turn into some kind of prepper
13:52 < chris_99> you were right about iron nanoparticles - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanoscale_iron_particles they dont actually look that hard to make from the formulae
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13:54 < chris_99> hmm you can get  35-45 nm for £50 for 5g
13:57 < xtalmath> what is the current Gbpsi of HDD?
13:58 < chris_99> 'In 2014 Seagate introduced a hard drive at a density of 848 Gbit/in²'
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14:02 < xtalmath> uh, is that like squares of 25.4 nm side ?
14:02 < xtalmath> that seems way beyond diffraction limit
14:06 < chris_99> you mean squares of 25.4nm for each bit?
14:06 < xtalmath> yes
14:06 < xtalmath> (I used 1000 Gbps for easier calc)
14:07 < chris_99> i'll try and find out
14:07 < xtalmath> at HDD rpm, the head is detecting the modulation ... how?
14:07 < xtalmath> I must have made mistake somewhere
14:08 < xtalmath> I seem to remember something about heating to expand the area before reading, but I think that was optical media
14:08 < chris_99> that was with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingled_magnetic_recording i'm not sure what that means yet though
14:10 < xtalmath> ah yeah, its just that reading heads can already read thinner than write heads
14:11 < xtalmath> so with a wide brush you can still make thin lines
14:11 < chris_99> ah
14:11 < xtalmath> but then it would need to record multiple tracks before writing
14:12 < xtalmath> and rewrite the damaged tracks
14:13 < xtalmath> shingles are like part of the roof
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14:14 < xtalmath> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat-assisted_magnetic_recording
14:14 < chris_99> theres also a mageto-optical version i think
14:14 < xtalmath> Zip?
14:15 < chris_99> is that what zip was
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14:24 < xtalmath> apparently not, its some kind of "superfloppy"
14:24 < xtalmath> something between floppy and HDD, it had voice coil, but flaccid platter
14:25 < xtalmath> really strange, and the heads would fly over the disk, but without Bernoulli effect
14:25 < chris_99> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magneto-optical_drive
14:26 < xtalmath> right it was MiniDisk
14:26 < chris_99> i thought minidisk was a CD
14:26 < chris_99> i mean purely optical
14:26 < chris_99> oh apparently not
14:33 < xtalmath> heh seems the needed Kerr effect setup is present in minidisk
14:36 < chris_99> haha
14:36 < chris_99> that's a good point...
14:38 < chris_99> they're going cheap on fleabay too
14:39 < xtalmath> also, when using this to read platters, be careful to read at low power settings, perhaps the platter must spin, as a focused spot may demagnetize the bit unintentionally
14:39 < chris_99> mmm yeah
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14:40 < nmz787_w> heh, I might still have a minidisk player in a box somewhere
14:40 < xtalmath> you doing this for fun or keeping potential income in mind?
14:40 < nmz787_w> and some minidisks with what I imagine is full of teenage angst
14:40 < nmz787_w> (music)
14:40 < xtalmath> also not sure how good it would work on different kerr effect materials
14:40 < chris_99> just for fun
14:42 < xtalmath> perhaps try and cross the optics with blu ray laser and lenses, to see if you can read smaller spot size then
14:42 < chris_99> one thing i was wondering, could you read multiple bits at a time?
14:42 < chris_99> if you used an image sensor
14:43 < xtalmath> chris_99: yes, in that book there is images of that
14:43 < chris_99> cool, i haven't read the kerr section completely
14:43 < xtalmath> its also used in mineralogy or metallurgy to inspect materials, in microscopes
14:43 < xtalmath> so dont necessarily need image sensor
14:43 < chris_99> i've got a metallurgical microscope, maybe i can hack it
14:44 < xtalmath> I know little about metallurgical microscopes, so I don't know what kinds there are
14:46 < xtalmath> if it has a kerr effect mode, then you could try and keep a whole minidisk above it Curie point, and try wave a magnet to see realtime influence of the magnet!
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14:47 < xtalmath> also, how does a modern HDD write head work? can't imagine it is a coil
14:48 < chris_99> good question
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14:52 < xtalmath> I don't believe they can control magnetic fields at this scale, so I assume they use something similar to the minidisk, heating a thin section, such that the wide field only influences that section above the Curie point
14:52 < xtalmath> "Seagate introduced TMR heads featuring integrated microscopic heater coils to control the shape of the transducer  region of the head during operation. The heater can be activated prior  to the start of a write operation to ensure proximity of the write pole  to the disk/medium."
14:54 < xtalmath> hmm, I think heat (in the form of colliding molecules, not radiative heat) is easier to focus than light
14:54 < xtalmath> how how close is the write head to the platter? is that like molecular flow regime?
14:55 < xtalmath> perhaps it heats incoming air stream, then forces it into a thin jet? while draw cool air on the sides?
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16:06 < drewbug> paperbot is totally dead, right?
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16:31 < justanotheruser> he's at least been in a coma for a few months
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17:48 < phillyj> is paperbot no longer active?
17:48 < kanzure> paperbot will return one day, once some bugs are fixed by someone
17:49 < phillyj> cool
17:49 < phillyj> hey, anyone worked with the oxford tech nanopore miniION?
17:49 < kanzure> i don't have one
17:50 < phillyj> lol
17:51 < phillyj> Mega wants to seq a genome
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17:54 < phillyj> I was thinking we could make this a group effort
17:54 < phillyj> a first of its kind?
17:55 < kanzure> afaik it wouldn't be a first
17:56 < kanzure> anyway, genome sequencing is like <$1k why does this need to be a group thing
17:57 < phillyj> a first for DIYbio, i mean
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18:12 < kanzure> phillyj: i think a good project would be something about graverobbing
18:12 < kanzure> check if you have any interesting people in graves nearby
18:13 < kanzure> i might be interested in paying for sequencing of their genomic material
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18:13 < phillyj> sarcasm?
18:13 < kanzure> no
18:14 < kanzure> there's lots of interesting dead people with interesting genomes
18:21 < kanzure> apparently they were foolish enough to bury leibniz
18:21 < kanzure> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neust%C3%A4dter_Kirche,_Hanover
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18:31 < ryankarason> i'll support the project :)
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19:02 < kanzure> yashgaroth: since i hadn't showed you the nootropics thing, i must ask whether i have shown you the cryonics thing?
19:02 < kanzure> *shown you
19:03 < yashgaroth> not that I can recall, no
19:03 < kanzure> are you familiar with cryonics
19:04 < yashgaroth> sure
19:04 < kanzure> instead of iterating on cryopreservation methods, we should also be (selectively) iterating on the organisms that we are attempting to preserve and resuscitate
19:04 < yashgaroth> ahhh yes I remember this
19:04 < kanzure> kk
19:05 < kanzure> probably the two methods could be combined (just not for nootropics)
19:08 < yashgaroth> you mean toxo and cryopreservation?
19:09 < kanzure> well, not necessarily toxo- it's not just brain matter that need shelp
19:09 < yashgaroth> brains are the tough part for cryo though
19:10 < kanzure> mike darwin claims that brains can tolerate up to 60% frozen-as-in-ice and recover
19:11 < yashgaroth> depends how that 60% is distributed, if it's not freeze-lysing the actual neurons and just the interstitial space then sure
19:11 < yashgaroth> also "tolerate" and "recover" are rather vague terms, esp. when speaking about brains
19:12 < kanzure> hm.
19:12 < kanzure> yes i should get a reference out of him about this anyway
19:13 < yashgaroth> what ever happened with alcor and ted williams' frozen head anyway
19:14 < kanzure> i forget
19:16 < yashgaroth> also per your earlier comments, cuttlefish I believe have very large brains, at least relative to other octopodes, also they can change colors and are apparently delicious
19:17 < kanzure> hmm.
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22:56 < delinquentme> TIL we can synthesize glucose from fat
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22:56 < delinquentme> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-t6UiBO6i9b8/TwY9PdVUxgI/AAAAAAAAAYs/jLCJeNdfplo/s320/TCA+Cycle+No+Synthesis.png
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