--- Log opened Fri Aug 21 00:00:47 2015
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03:58 < justanotheruser> https://ia800304.us.archive.org/3/items/EtherealVerses/Ethereal_Verses.pdf
03:58 < justanotheruser> I hope those links are static...
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06:42 < kanzure> all of that was boring
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06:45 < Betawolf> http://weinspectrealestate.com/PDF/wood_boring_insect_guide.pdf
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06:54 < kanzure> relevant china-spam "Our main items are Biotin reagents & Trifluoromethanesulfonate salt,such as D-Biotin,Biotin hydrazide,6-Maleimidocaproic acid, Aluminum trifluoromethanesulfonate ,Lithium triflate, etc."
07:01 < kanzure> Betawolf: have an insect problem i guess?
07:03 < kanzure> .wik rolling hash
07:03 < yoleaux> "A rolling hash is a hash function where the input is hashed in a window that moves through the input." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_hash
07:03 < kanzure> ps4 hacking stuff http://cturt.github.io/ps4.html
07:05 < Betawolf> It was a joke. You kept saying people were boring, so I provided a boring insect identification guide.
07:05 < Betawolf> In compensation for the joke, people might be interested in: http://www.longevityhistory.com/book/indexpdf.html if it's not already been brought up.
07:15 < kanzure> haven't seen any videos or transcripts from the sens foundation conference yet, did they all die or what
07:15 < kanzure> ah today is their last day. so videos over the weekend probably, if any.
07:17 < kanzure> ugh "crowdfunding for anti-aging projects" https://www.lifespan.io/
07:18 < Betawolf> https://www.fightaging.org/fund-research/ huh, large anonymous donation.
07:19 < Betawolf> there's a live-blogging thing if you're interested in the conference: https://medium.com/@dandv/live-blogging-from-rb2015-rejuvenation-biotechnology-6f8aa0413092
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07:52 < kanzure> https://medium.com/@dandv/rb2015-helen-m-blau-rejuvenation-of-aged-muscle-stem-cell-population-2d547159e484
07:53 < kanzure> https://medium.com/@dandv/rb2015-liam-grover-designing-materials-to-maximise-regeneration-bbc720963315
08:09 < kanzure> pfft igem has been contracting with idt http://2015.igem.org/Synthesis
08:09 < kanzure> "20 kb of free dna synthesis" pffffffft
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08:26 < kanzure> http://news.usni.org/2015/08/19/exploring-the-wreck-of-uss-macon-the-navys-last-flying-aircraft-carrier
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08:42 < chris_99> CaptHindsight, are you about per chance
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09:24 < kanzure> "I love the garden. I respect its inhabitants and a commitment to cooperation and clean epistemology. But the rules of the garden are a _terrible_ guide to getting things done in the rest of the world. The median epistemic hygiene of the world is sufficiently bad that I (usually) don’t worry about making it any worse in the course of actually getting stuff done."
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11:00 < ParahSailin_> dangit my rsu's
11:00 < kanzure> went up in smoke?
11:01 < ParahSailin_> maybe this will mean housing prices will take a bit of dip when i need it
11:02 < ParahSailin_> whose neighbor should i be in oakland
11:11 < kanzure> you could go live with fenn
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11:18 < kanzure> "making falsifiable claims makes an ideology less adapted to human hosts."
11:21 < xtalmath> "This reminds me of the  perfect compression scheme. It can compress any size input down to a  single bit. Decompression was out-of-scope, not to mention impossible.  If you only care about measuring compression efficiency what's the big  deal? </sarcasm/>" hahaha
11:21 < xtalmath> pure genius
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11:35 < kanzure> "In my more mean-spirited and uncharitable moments, I like to think of Biasocial Science as an enterprise driven by the grand-daddy of all biases: the bias towards believing that cataloging biases advances our understanding of the human condition in a fundamental way that can enable the construction and enactment of a progressive “Ascent of Quantified Man” narrative."
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12:22 < CaptHindsight> chris_99: I'll be around in a few hours from now
12:23 < chris_99> okey dokey ta, just wanted to ask you something regarding inkjet piezos
12:33 < kanzure> dude sees 5 year old email about hacking solidworks from me -> shoots an email to the mailing list asking for an update -> i reply within 2 minutes -> he sends me another email (privately) because apparently he got bored waiting those 2 whole minutes
12:35 < xtalmath> kanzure: lol
12:36 < xtalmath> I was thinking about the army brain organoids in my dream/sleep. given the boston dynamics video's we have all seen, it seems they may intend to grow brains for battlebots
12:36 < xtalmath> attaching electrodes to retinas is a feat accomplished
12:37 < xtalmath> the soldiers wouldnt have to fight, just donate some skin cells
12:37 < xtalmath> the brains would be less afraid of losing limbs, they can just get a replacement mechanical limb
12:38 < xtalmath> its easier to do mindcontrol on biological brains, which supposedly have innate intuition to blindly trust its parents
12:38 < xtalmath> also easier to control the brain worldviews, by not having  a real human youth
12:39 < kanzure> aren't bombs easier?
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12:40 < xtalmath> kanzure: bombs have a lower dexterity, the number of bits is just the location and radius of damage
12:40 < kanzure> vinay gupta claims that bitcoin is suffering from a lack of reading kevin carson stuff on anarchism. weird stuff. haven't heard kevin's name in a long time.
12:40 < xtalmath> kanzure: soldiers can move things, force people, inspect things, ...
12:41 < xtalmath> thats way more dexterity/cybernetic control expressed in bits
12:41 < xtalmath> its also why nukes are not that interesting in the end
12:41 < xtalmath> also less property damage
12:41 < kanzure> last time i saw kevin carson around these parts was http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com/
12:41 < kanzure> and i don't know why i didn't expect vinay gupta to know kevin carson. seems like a reasonable thing.
12:42 < kanzure> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Carson
12:43 < kanzure> fenn: what was the reason you were originally stalking vinay gupta anyway?
12:44 < kanzure> was it because of smari mccarthy?
12:44 < kanzure> vinay claiming things about kevin carson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHFSvttMg6E
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12:51 < kanzure> better version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaaknMDbQGc
13:43 < kanzure> "Limits on fundamental limits to computation" http://arxiv.org/abs/1408.3821
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13:46 < kanzure> table 1 is neat
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14:37 < xtalmath> kanzure: how can I quickly locate the $1000 dollar microlithography setup paper on your site? its a bit disorderly
14:42 < CaptHindsight> xtalmath: http://ma.ecsdl.org/content/MA2012-02/59/3990.full.pdf#page=1&view=FitH  and similar
14:42 < xtalmath> yah
14:44 < CaptHindsight> inverse microscope
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14:51 < chris_99> i wonder if that setup would be good for highres 3D models
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14:56 < CaptHindsight> just needs a system to deposit photopolymers
14:57 < chris_99> so they've essentially strapped a laser onto a micropositioner, and they're using that to do the drawing right?
15:02 < CaptHindsight> in that ^^ example yes, and the microscope is used to view it
15:02 < CaptHindsight> they are probably using a microscope objective with the laser to focus down to ~1um
15:03 < chris_99> neat, i guess the stepper motors don't need to be very precise, would something like microstepping a 0.9 deg stepper be enough?
15:03 < CaptHindsight> with what screw pitch?
15:05 < xtalmath> in a related paper, they achieve 500nm http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/High%20resolution,%20low%20cost%20laser%20lithography%20using%20a%20Blu-ray%20optical%20head%20assembly.pdf
15:05 < chris_99> sorry what do you mean, my mechanical knowledge is poor, i was thinking you could attach a stepper to the micropositioners knobs, via some sort of timing belt
15:05 < CaptHindsight> 1mm pitch / 360 = ~2.8um per step with ideal screw
15:06 < xtalmath> CaptHindsight: I have stepper motor with 2000 or so steps per turn (gearing)
15:06 < xtalmath> they were the cheapes in the local electronics store, bad buy btw, because they are slow (although I used too low a voltage)
15:07 < xtalmath> CaptHindsight: also, id use 0.5mm pitch M3 or smth
15:08 < CaptHindsight> xtalmath: chris_99 is wondering how this all works, step rates, screw pitch, etc.
15:09 < chris_99> yeah im confused how you attach a stepper to the micropositioner knobs
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15:09 < xtalmath> chris_99: the stepper motor is coupled to a threaded rod, and a nut on the rod is attached to the stage
15:09 < nmz787_w> xtalmath: this offers better resolution http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/optics/photolithography/High%20resolution,%20low%20cost%20laser%20lithography%20using%20a%20Blu-ray%20optical%20head%20assembly.pdf
15:09 < gradstudentbot> Haha, undergrads.
15:09 < CaptHindsight> chris_99: screw pitch is the distance between threads
15:10 < chris_99> ah
15:10 < xtalmath> nmz787_w: they are identical?
15:10 < CaptHindsight> http://www.boltscience.com/images/screw3.gif
15:10 < CaptHindsight> chris_99: so say it's 1mm pitch then one turn moves the nut on the crew 1mm
15:10 < CaptHindsight> crew/screw
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15:11 < CaptHindsight> and if you have 1000 steps per rev then 1mm / 1000 is the distance per step
15:11 < xtalmath> chris_99: the timing belt should work in theory
15:11 < chris_99> i'm still slightly confused, are they using a standard micropositioner such as http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261960369755?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT which has knobs you turn, i can't see how you'd attach a screw to that?
15:11 < kanzure> xtalmath: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/optics/photolithography/
15:11 < kanzure> xtalmath: and http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/
15:12 < nmz787_w> xtalmath: no, the one i just posted doesn't use a microscope, it uses a bluray writer optical sled
15:12 < xtalmath> nmz787_w: I posted both
15:12 < xtalmath> kanzure: yeah, its where I originally read them
15:12 < kanzure> xtalmath: for good projects i have budget available, btw
15:12 < kanzure> good open-source hardware projects
15:12 < CaptHindsight> chris_99: they don't list it but it's probably s crew type positioner
15:12 < nmz787_w> xtalmath: oh, it doesn't show up in the logs for today\
15:13 < xtalmath> kanzure: that sounds interesting, but I don't know how that would work with taxes here?
15:13 < chris_99> CaptHindsight, so theoretically you could pull off the knobs and attach a screw maybe?
15:13 < nmz787_w> chris_99: that ebay link you posted has the screws hidden
15:13 < xtalmath> kanzure: perhaps later, I will first get acquainted with my 3d printer I just got
15:13 < gradstudentbot> Just wait until the ethics review board never hears about this.
15:14 < chris_99> nmz787_w, hidden where? behind the knobs or..
15:14 < xtalmath> kanzure: I may remind you of your offer at a later date, but instead of $ specific tool like say a micrometer stage...
15:14 < CaptHindsight> chris_99: if you have machine tools you can make just about anything
15:14 < kanzure> xtalmath: nah i mean we need good open-source hardware projects for things like photolithography
15:14 < kanzure> not just "adding to xtalmath's tool collection"
15:15 < xtalmath> kanzure: yes, that is how I understood it
15:15 < kanzure> k
15:15 < xtalmath> the former
15:15 < xtalmath> lol
15:15 < xtalmath> your not santa ofc
15:15 < gradstudentbot> Oh yeah, isn't that already a part on the biobrick registry?
15:15 < nmz787_w> chris_99: hidden inside the positioner
15:15 < xtalmath> your saying something similar like people who buy linux dev's peripherals in exchange for FOSS driver support
15:16 < nmz787_w> chris_99: presumbaly the screw is co-axial with the knobs... but they could be connected by a gear or something i suppose
15:16 < chris_99> mmm
15:17 < CaptHindsight> chris_99: http://www.manualpositioning.com/pic/other/XYZ_Positioning_System_with_Large-Area_Platform.jpg  you might be thinking of one of these
15:17 < kanzure> xtalmath: kinda
15:17 < xtalmath> nmz787_w: I have a micro milling machine, and it has a positioning stage, I wondered if the stage would be precise enough for the microlithography?
15:17 < CaptHindsight> but they are also available motorized with lead screws, ball screws, linear servos or piezos
15:18 < xtalmath> basically I might just attach a bluray optics assembly and try on the milling machine, without decomposing the milling machine
15:18 < chris_99> it's a shame the paper isn't more specific on what they used
15:18 < nmz787_w> xtalmath: with the right feedback it could be... something like optical feedback or interferometry
15:19 < kanzure> nmz787_w: why were we looking at optics stuff for that? fenn pointed out that the original plan was "use the same optics from the bluray drive"
15:19 < xtalmath> nmz787_w I was thinking scanner linear CIS sensor, they are routinely 1000fps to 10000fps
15:19 < CaptHindsight> chris_99: yeah, it's obvious to anyone that builds automation systems or machines
15:19 < xtalmath> coupled with video lenses
15:19 < chris_99> ah heh
15:20 < nmz787_w> kanzure: optics for feedback... basically just a microscope pointed at a decent-enough quality grid reticle (I was thinking a laser printed grid would be fine)
15:20 < CaptHindsight> chris_99: but it's not a simple howto for someone new to the tech
15:20 < xtalmath> they only made linear traces though, so that inherently does not suffer from potential backlash in a stage
15:20 < nmz787_w> kanzure: also at some point we didn't think to use a bluray drive
15:20 < kanzure> no way it was for feedback. i don't remember that being the reason.
15:20 < kanzure> yes i think it was because we decided against bluray but why?
15:20 < xtalmath> I am curious why not the blu ray?
15:21 < kanzure> maybe we just forgot that we had a good solution
15:21 < xtalmath> they are mandated to have a specific small maximum spot size
15:21 < nmz787_w> i never thought anyone decided against bluray
15:21 < xtalmath> according to blu ray spec
15:21 < kanzure> if "quality control" was the reason that we stopped then fuck that?
15:21 < nmz787_w> i think the interest died down though when I was trying to talk about that
15:21 < kanzure> right, fenn died
15:21 < kanzure> but that's not the reason
15:21 < kanzure> microscope optics were being attempted for some reason
15:21 < nmz787_w> you wanted a webscope
15:21 < xtalmath> uh fenn is still alive?
15:21 < kanzure> xtalmath: death is just a state of mind
15:21 < CaptHindsight> what's the blueray for? polymerizing a resist or?
15:21 < nmz787_w> and I think i found that english open source scope
15:22 < nmz787_w> yep
15:22 < kanzure> CaptHindsight: laser cutter, polymerization if good photoresist found, etc.
15:22 < xtalmath> kanzure: I guess you were thinking of fuck direct write, lets couple an LCD with microscopes?
15:22 < nmz787_w> xtalmath: you can still see lead screw wobble in those lines though
15:22 < kanzure> was this stuff http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/laser_etcher/
15:22 < kanzure> xtalmath: no, we were trying to keep things simple
15:23 < gradstudentbot> My matlab crashed.
15:23 < CaptHindsight> chris_99: this type uses a piezo motor  http://www.pi-usa.us/products/images/300x250_images/XYZ_nanopositioning_stages-P611_3.jpg
15:23 < CaptHindsight> chris_99: for nanopositioning
15:23 < nmz787_w> xtalmath: at some point you can start to see interpixel deadzone noise, unless you overrepresent your feature with more than one pixel (need more mag, so get less field of view)
15:23 < xtalmath> I wish a miniature version of the laser system in laser printers were possible for microlithography
15:23 < nmz787_w> and then you need imaging again to stick FOVs
15:23 < nmz787_w> stitch*
15:23 < chris_99> interesting, i think i've seen some AFM stuff, where they use piezos CaptHindsight
15:24 < xtalmath> nmz787_w I see the wobble but not sure what you refer to with deadzone noise
15:24 < xtalmath> nmz787_w oh you mean for coupling LCD
15:24 < gradstudentbot> Blah, why won't they just kick me out.
15:24 < kanzure> p. sure we've had this conversation before, we were telling you nope about the "interpixel deadzone" stuff
15:25 < kanzure> 19:11 < fenn> "interpixel noise" doesn't seem like a good excuse; you can blur the lines between pixels anyway
15:25 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/optics/photolithography/Development%20of%20microfabrication%20technology%20with%20maskless%20photolithography%20device%20using%20LCD%20projector%20-%20Itoga%20-%202010.pdf
15:25 < xtalmath> oh you mean screendoor effect
15:25 < kanzure> 19:13 < kanzure> page 2 figure 2
15:25 < xtalmath> yeah just blur
15:25 < kanzure> 19:14 < fenn> kanzure: that's the answer to the problem he's proposing, not the problem
15:25 < kanzure> er... well.. whatever.
15:26 < CaptHindsight> add a femtosecond laser for two photon polymerization
15:26 < xtalmath> this channel got lively
15:27 < CaptHindsight> or use two visible light lasers that interfere to make features down to ~150nm
15:27 < nmz787_w> kanzure: that isn't the paper i'm referring to with the inter-pixel noise... but yeah the solution is to over-magnify and use multiple pixels for a single smallest-feature you want
15:28 < fenn> i'm not dead
15:28 < kanzure> you were dead at the time
15:28 < fenn> i was in the shower hrmph
15:28 < kanzure> same thing
15:28 < xtalmath> Im guessing this is a case of analysis paralysis. the people who write these papers didnt spend years to optimize this specific setup, they just tried a novel idea, and used their limited resources to report on feasibility, with a heads up of some imperfections of their techniques
15:29 < xtalmath> half a year later they are doing a different project
15:29 < fenn> i first heard about vinay gupta because the hexayurt was similar to things i was working on at the time
15:29 < fenn> and he kept popping up everywhere
15:29 < kanzure> but what else after hexayurt
15:29 < fenn> he was on open manufacturing
15:29 < nmz787_w> idk if this is the exact one, but it was on this site http://www.intelligentmp.com/Downloads/Technical%20Papers/SF-100%20Greyscale%20Paper.pdf
15:29 < xtalmath> I think of hobbyists take either system like the direct write or the LCD, without being forced to investigate a completely different thing, they can perfect on the setup
15:29 < nmz787_w> from this list http://www.intelligentmp.com/downloadstechnicalpapers.html
15:30 < kanzure> ah okay, then that is why i remember seeing lots of him
15:30 < kanzure> "funny, i don't remember looking up hexayurt that often...."
15:30 < chris_99> CaptHindsight, oh earlier i was going to ask you i was reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_cryptanalysis it says 'In March 2015, it was made public that some inkjet printers using ultrasonic heads can be read back using high frequency MEMS microphones ...' which i've not been able to find any sources for, but i found some information that the drive frequency for one of epsons piezo heads is 8kHz, is around that
15:30 < chris_99> frequency fairly common?
15:30 < CaptHindsight> xtalmath: by hobbyists you mean reprapists??
15:30 < fenn> raping the replicators
15:31 < xtalmath> CaptHindsight: hah
15:31 < kanzure> #notallreprapists
15:31 < fenn> i'm not a hobbyist, but...
15:31 < fenn> i do enjoy trains
15:32 < kanzure> you probably don't qualify as a hobbyist
15:32 < xtalmath> chris_99: I think they mean that ultrasonic microphones can recover what is privately being printed, like EM emissions from CRT tubes before
15:32 < CaptHindsight> chris_99: lots of assumptions would have to be made
15:32 < xtalmath> sounds reasonable to me
15:33 < CaptHindsight> chris_99: plus you have 0-180 nozzles up to 8x firing at the same time
15:33 < fenn> i went to the scrap yard yesterday and got a big square tube of steel, and this seems like a repeatable exercise
15:33 < fenn> i was worried about the availability of cheap materials in the area
15:33 < gradstudentbot> Who's in charge of the master mix?
15:34 < xtalmath> for a single pixel (or dot in printer terminology), the piezo does 1 oscillation (i.e. impulsive)? or multiple (thermal expansion)?
15:34 < CaptHindsight> xtalmath: depends on the mode
15:34 < xtalmath> CaptHindsight: an inkjet printer can have 180 nozzles?
15:34 < kanzure> can have many nozzles
15:35 < CaptHindsight> one pixel could be made of 6 drops that combine in flight
15:35 < xtalmath> CYMK?
15:35 < kanzure> fenn: you should make up a shopping cart for SCOEW/EWOD things if you want to play around with that eventually. i'm willing to pay even if the parts sit around for a while.
15:35 < CaptHindsight> xtalmath: Epsons have 180 nozzles per channel and up to 8 channels in one head
15:35 < kanzure> fenn: or for bluray laser cutter stuff
15:36 < fenn> my mind is currently in "acquire basic fabrication technology infrastructure" mode
15:36 < kanzure> probably there's lots of cheapo "bag of 1 million LCDs" on ebay
15:36 < xtalmath> hmm, ok, but I still think simply plotting the recording as amplitude, while syncing retrace will give a discernible image
15:36 < kanzure> fenn: may i ask why?
15:36 < chris_99> what's a nozzle defined as CaptHindsight
15:36 < kanzure> fenn: too much "rationality bootcamp"? :-)
15:36 < fenn> annoyed at everyone sucking
15:36 < fenn> the hackerspaces around here are super lame
15:37 < kanzure> lamer than other hackerspaces?
15:37 < xtalmath> fenn: where you live?
15:37 < fenn> apparently http://www.makeitlabs.com/about/equipment
15:37 < fenn> xtalmath: berkeley, california
15:38 < CaptHindsight> http://www.sdott.com/pic/Printer%20spare%20parts/PH/F173050_1.png  Epson nozzle arrangement for the DX5 or 6
15:38 < kanzure> fenn: i am going to be near nashua soon maybe i should stop by their place and snap pics
15:39 < CaptHindsight> chris_99: a nozzle is where the ink gets push out of the head by a piezo or thermal actuator (or Mems)
15:39 < chris_99> is there a piezo per nozzle
15:39 < chris_99> or only per colour
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15:40 < CaptHindsight> chris_99: with piezo yes, it's one piezo per nozzle
15:40 < kanzure> there is a piezo per nozzle
15:40 < kanzure> a better question would be "does the control circuitry allow individual piezo control"
15:40 < xtalmath> kanzure: if I were you, I would require the person to receive  equipment for microfabrication project to have close access to analysis tool, STM or SEM or ... with a short feedback loop improvements on the fabrication device will be quantifiable
15:41 < kanzure> xtalmath: agreed
15:41 < kanzure> fenn: also pick me a place to buy a machine shop
15:41 < fenn> ugh haven't we been over this already
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15:41 < kanzure> or move in with CaptHindsight
15:42 < CaptHindsight> http://www.rpsa.ricoh.com/aboutinkjet.html  how grey scale works with piezo heads
15:42 < fenn> kanzure what's wrong with les's place?
15:42 < kanzure> didn't he kick you out?
15:42 < kanzure> i don't remember
15:42 < kanzure> oh you mean his other place
15:42 < fenn> i mean using his woodworking shop as a machine shop
15:43 < fenn> i don't care about the house
15:43 < xtalmath> kanzure: I do have a crazy idea for trying to make a high frame rate STM though
15:43 < kanzure> fenn: at this point i think it would be better for me to just pay for a real place, my rules
15:43 < xtalmath> kanzure: but I already have the fpga and piezo's needed to try and experiment
15:44 < xtalmath> i am just a lazy bastard in the end
15:44 < kanzure> then you should be destroyed</jrayhawk>
15:44 < fenn> laziness++
15:45 < xtalmath> well lazy may be wrong word, slow because of too many parallel ideas/projects
15:45 < fenn> projects++
15:45 < fenn> now you have more projects
15:45 < CaptHindsight> a micromachineshop shouldn't take up much space
15:46 < kanzure> something like the size of a fish tub should work
15:46 < xtalmath> CaptHindsight: I agree
15:46 < xtalmath> yes, and just use fish tank tubing air filters as substitute for HEPA
15:47 < chris_99> CaptHindsight, https://www.anfractuosity.com/files/inkjet/ink.png i was bored earlier and recorded the sound from printing some black horizontal stripes, at least theres some pretty patterns in the FFT ;)
15:47 < kanzure> er isn't that the servos though
15:47 < xtalmath> ah now I remember why the fast STM project is stalled, I still got to order one of those video ADCs to connect to the fpga
15:48 < xtalmath> chris_99: do you have the original sound file?
15:48 < chris_99> yup
15:48 < xtalmath> you recorded at what sample rate?
15:48 < chris_99> 44kHz
15:48 < xtalmath> audible
15:48 < xtalmath> oh
15:48 < xtalmath> well put the file online
15:48 < xtalmath> Ill try some simple DSP tricks
15:49 < CaptHindsight> chris_99: you need to know position and how the print is interlaced
15:49 < gradstudentbot> I am kind of curious what he has a Ph.D. in, I can't really find this anywhere, it could be underwater basket weaving for all I know.
15:49 < chris_99> i've got a video which shows it printing
15:49 < chris_99> https://www.anfractuosity.com/files/inkjet/MVI_0431.MOV
15:49 < xtalmath> chris_99: just the audio?
15:49 < CaptHindsight> gradstudentbot: is that like a teaching degree?
15:49 < gradstudentbot> I don't know whether I am Turing dreaming that I am a machine, or a machine dreaming that I am Turing!
15:49 < chris_99> i can upload that too xtalmath, sec
15:50 < chris_99> https://www.anfractuosity.com/files/inkjet/audio1.wav
15:51 < gradstudentbot> Wow, I'm definitely not including this data in the paper.
15:52 < kanzure> .botsnack
15:52 < yoleaux> :D
15:53 < chris_99> heh
15:54 < CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MORI-SEIKI-MV-35-40-3-AXIS-CNC-VERTICAL-MACHINING-CENTER-/121716130026 $5k or best, make all your own parts
15:54 < xtalmath> why such a large CNC?
15:55 < kanzure> does the control panel really need to be on a swivel arm. is that really necessary.
15:55 < xtalmath> I have a small 400 euro one
15:55 < xtalmath> well, still have to add CNC, thats one of reasons I got a 3D printer, to make the mounting for the steppers
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15:57 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: yeah, since you want to move it around to load/unload the bed and operate from different positions
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15:59 < kanzure> it should be located behind the wall that protects the human from the machine's death spinners
16:01 < xtalmath> what are you going to make with that?
16:02 < CaptHindsight> all sorts of fun stuff
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16:04 < kanzure> WAFFLES from lesswrong suggests a "save a life" cryonics scheme: if anyone doesn't actually believe in cryonics then they should go through the insurance applications process and they should take out a policy in someone else's name.
16:04 < kanzure> which doesn't make sense because why would someone else believing otherwise make it more likely to work? hehe
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16:09 < xtalmath> kanzure: it must be bayesian
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16:15 < fenn> xtalmath: you could just make stepper mounts with the mill itself??
16:16 < fenn> (question marks because how could you not realize that)
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16:17 < xtalmath> fenn: I expect to make mistakes, and its easier to design and print plastic?
16:18 < xtalmath> also, I am not experienced at milling, so manual control is not my cup of tea
16:18 < xtalmath> I also dont want to damage the translation stages, so I prefer plastic
16:19 < xtalmath> but tips and advice are certainly welcome, if you think I should mill it
16:20 < fenn> i don't understand what you mean "i don't want to damage the translations tages"
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16:22 < kanzure> aren't these mounts like two holes and that's it
16:23 < fenn> yeah you can basically just use a piece of threaded rod and a coupling nut
16:25 < fenn> i think this is a good simple design http://www.truetex.com/ymount.htm
16:25 < fenn> machining ballscrews is the hard part
16:26 < fenn> and if you have somehow magically acquired ballscrews that fit your machine perfectly, you probably got them in a cnc conversion kit and it comes with motor mounts too
16:27 < xtalmath> fenn: my machine is much smaller than that its a micromill, let me look it up
16:27 < xtalmath> proxxon MF 70
16:28 < xtalmath> http://www.proxxon.com/en/micromot/27110.php?list
16:28 < fenn> i figured it was something like that, but the same principles apply
16:28 < fenn> blech
16:29 < xtalmath> yeah, obviously the couple of holes for the stepper are not hard, but more like how to connect it to the mill base, and translation stage
16:29 < fenn> there are screw holes there already
16:29 < xtalmath> yes
16:30 < xtalmath> I guess I will use those :)
16:30 < fenn> z axis is kinda wonky because of the rounded corners
16:30 < fenn> ugh
16:30 < xtalmath> theres 4 allen bolts there
16:30 < fenn> is the z column cap made of plastic or metal?
16:31 < xtalmath> plastic I think
16:31 < xtalmath> wait
16:31 < xtalmath> yes plastic
16:32 < fenn> ok maybe you can just remove it and mount directly to the column somehow
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16:32 < fenn> surely others have done this before
16:32 < xtalmath> tbh, I have very little experience milling, and I don't even know say what the right tensioning needs to be
16:33 < gradstudentbot> I am sponsored by the Beijing Genomics Institute.
16:33 < xtalmath> or the order of tensioning the 3 nuts for a given axis
16:33 < xtalmath> fenn: yes, but I am not familiar yet with metalworking, I should start from a box like the link you showed?
16:33 < xtalmath> attach stepper with a coupler, or with a belt?
16:34 < xtalmath> what power stepper do I need?
16:34 < xtalmath> i suffer analysis paralysis :)
16:35 < fenn> haha all of the cnc conversions online are total bodges because nobody with any fabrication competence would ever want this mill in the first place
16:37 < fenn> xtalmath just steal the motors from your 3d printer
16:37 < xtalmath> fenn: but I only just got the 3d printer
16:37 < xtalmath> and want to make plastic micromanipulators
16:38 < fenn> destroy! destroy!
16:38 < xtalmath> I will get extra steppers dont worrry
16:39 < kanzure> do you have enough space for your basic infrastructure project
16:39 < fenn> i have roughly half of a 1-car garage to work with
16:40 < kanzure> for how long?
16:40 < fenn> as long as i'm here, or until the neighbor above gets pissed about the noise
16:40 < kanzure> ok well show me a shopping cart of stuff to get and we should do that
16:40 < fenn> it's not ideal
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16:48 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carl-Zeiss-EM-109-Transmission-Electron-Microscope-TEM-1231/191647064682
16:48 < CaptHindsight> $950.00
16:48 < kanzure> "includes manual" nice
16:49 < CaptHindsight> They said they were having some difficulty with it holding a vacuum, but decided to get a new one rather than repair it.
16:49 < kanzure> sherman, texas
16:51 < xtalmath> TEM is just $1000 ?
16:51 < xtalmath> oh ok
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18:19 < ParahSailin_> fenn gets the synthesizer?
18:21 < xtalmath> I just realized what electron spin is
18:21 < xtalmath> I have to write a long paper
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19:52 < kanzure> ParahSailin_: unless you want to tweak it
20:34 < fenn> ParahSailin_: please take it
20:37 < kanzure> i wonder how much greg egan costs
20:37 < fenn> a large prime number
20:37 < fenn> but you have to guess it exactly
20:38 < kanzure> he probably has tenure somewhere, bleh
20:39 < fenn> is genetic engineering legal in australia?
20:41 < fenn> wow just when i thought the catholics were somewhat reasonable:
20:41 < fenn> In moral evaluation a distinction must be made between strictly "therapeutic" manipulation, which aims to cure illnesses caused by genetic or chromosome anomalies (genetic therapy), from manipulation "altering" the human genetic patrimony.
20:41 < fenn> A curative intervention, which is also called ‘genetic surgery,’ ‘will be considered desirable in principle, provided its purpose is the real promotion of the personal well-being of the individual, without damaging his integrity or worsening his condition of life.
20:41 < fenn> On the other hand, interventions which are not directly curative, the purpose of which is 'the production of human beings selected according to sex or other predetermined qualities,' which change the genotype of the individual and of the human species, 'are contrary to the personal dignity of the human being, to his integrity and to his identity.
20:41 < fenn> Therefore they can be in no way justified on the pretext that they will produce some beneficial results for humanity in the future,' 'no social or scientific usefulness and no ideological purpose could ever justify an intervention on the human genome unless it be therapeutic, that is its finality must be the natural development of the human being.'
20:41 < fenn> -- Charter for Health Care Workers, 12
20:41 < kanzure> "personal dignity" my ass
20:44 < fenn> "GMOs classified as low risk include knockout mice as long as the modification does not confer an advantage to the animal"
20:44 < fenn> WADA strikes again~
20:44 < fenn> protecting the mouse olympics from unethical behavior
20:45 < kanzure> "this is buffy, my pet mouse" (mouse barks)
20:47 < kanzure> a shortcut argument for nuking calls for regulation is that you could claim such overbearing rules are similar to eugenics ("preserving the current genetic order")
20:47 < fenn> human engineering legality map: http://i.4cdn.org/int/1439700900248.png
20:47 < fenn> kanzure nobody would go for that
20:47 < fenn> they already equate genetic engineering with eugenics
20:48 < kanzure> http://i.4cdn.org/int/1439700900248.png cannot be crawled or saved due to robots.txt
20:48 < kanzure> i have been trying to view most hplusroadmap links through the internet archive because that's the only safe way to browse the web without being completely vulnerable to time travel
20:49 < fenn> uh ok
20:49 < kanzure> specifically: it would really suck to look over the log in the future and find absolutely none of the links work
20:49 < fenn> that is 100% going to happen
20:49 < kanzure> sometimes you can get by with filenames but that cdn link is practically gone forever already
20:49 < fenn> average lifetime of a link is now like 6 months
20:54 < kanzure> greg egan's short stories have too much dialog for my taste
20:55 < fenn> why don't you write some greg egan fanfiction then
20:55 < fenn> all the nerds are doin it
20:55 < kanzure> i do have a ~/my-docs/scifi/ collection but i want to give it some more time
21:02 < kanzure> .title http://security.cs.rpi.edu/courses/hwre-spring2014/
21:02 < yoleaux> CSCI 4974 / 6974 Hardware Reverse Engineering
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21:39 < kanzure> hmph
22:09 < xtalmath> kanzure what is a cdn link?
22:14 < yashgaroth> .wik content distribution network
22:14 < yoleaux> "A content delivery network or content distribution network (CDN) is a large distributed system of servers deployed in multiple data centers across the Internet." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_distribution_network
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22:25 < xtalmath> so basically, a URL
22:25 < xtalmath> an internet link
22:28 < justanotheruser> umm
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22:31 < yashgaroth> CDNs are optimized for hosting content that is actively being heavily viewed on another website; in the case of 4cdn.org, for example, that would be 4chan, which has an exceptionally short lifetime for content, though the principle applies broadly
22:32 < yashgaroth> a cdn is not intended to be a permanent store of e.g. an image, unlike other forms of hosting
22:35 < yashgaroth> I'm sure a more computer person could explain it better and with fewer adverbs but apparently you're stuck with me
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23:59 < justanotheruser> thought vectors
--- Log closed Sat Aug 22 00:00:05 2015