--- Log opened Thu Oct 29 00:00:10 2015
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05:23 < kanzure> "3% isn't shocking to me, in fact a number of studies of IV med administration have error rates narrowly on either side of 50% and serious error rates in the double digits. This report suggests that you're safer in surgery than elsewhere in the hospita"
05:28 < kanzure> https://reddit.com/r/netsec/comments/3qn4wg/a_glimpse_inside_cryptowall_30/
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06:11 < streety> half of all IV meds are erroneously administered? what is considered to be an error in this situation?
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06:34 < CaptHindsight> they hire people that are willing to work for the least amount of pay
06:34 < CaptHindsight> so they end up with nurses that barely passed the test
06:35 < kanzure> and what about all that illegible handwriting, huh huh
06:36 < CaptHindsight> IV meds, dialysis etc anywhere they have to be competent enough to read and press a few buttons
06:36 < CaptHindsight> they don't care, they don't even want to be there
06:36 < kanzure> dialysis machines cost too much too
06:38 < CaptHindsight> when the system is for-profit and run by a bunch of sociopaths what other outcome is expected?
06:39 < kanzure> sociopaths really aren't that bad
06:39 < kanzure> you'll have to find another boogeyman, move along
06:40 < CaptHindsight> lets talk in a few decades
06:40 < kanzure> wont you be dead? :-)
06:41 < JayDugger> Wow. I think set a new record for hitting ignore.
06:41 < kanzure> two weeks?
06:41 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: lets see how far you get
06:41 < kanzure> hahah
06:41 < kanzure> well played
06:41 < JayDugger> No, that's the  theme of the conversationI just had with my boss.
06:42 < JayDugger> Two lines. As in sat down at the terminal, read two lines of the log, and hit ignore.
06:42 < Aurelius_Work> man, I prefer sociopaths I know are looking out for their own good (because you can incentivize sufficiently smart ones) to people who I know want to choose what's best for me against my will.
06:43 < CaptHindsight> good luck with that
06:44 < CaptHindsight> the problem is that they aren't looking out for themselves, unless by lookout you mean short term profit
06:44 < kanzure> you really think that's a byproduct of sociopathy?
06:44 < Aurelius_Work> yeah, that's more the emergent product of a system with unfortunate interactions
06:45 < CaptHindsight> we'd have to define sociopathy first
06:45 < kanzure> .wik sociopathy
06:45 < yoleaux> "Psychopathy (/saɪˈkɒpəθi/), also known as—though sometimes distinguished from—sociopathy (/soʊsiˈɒpəθi/), is traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, diminished empathy and remorse, and disinhibited or bold behavior." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociopathy
06:45 < Aurelius_Work> and -apparently- (take this with a massive, massive grain of salt), 4% of CEOs are psychopaths vs 1% of genpop, so
06:48 < JayDugger> Let's rationalize envy, by all means.
06:48 < kanzure> wha?
06:49 < JayDugger> I doubt that statistic very much.
06:49 < CaptHindsight> I bet it's 50.2% accurate
06:51 < Aurelius_Work> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20422644 apparently sourced from this--but again, skepticism suggested
06:51 < kanzure> .title
06:51 < yoleaux> Corporate psychopathy: Talking the walk. - PubMed - NCBI
06:52 < Aurelius_Work> (not exactly a subject I care that much about)
06:53 < CaptHindsight> we need more corporate poetry
06:53 < CaptHindsight> well really the arts in general
06:53 < JayDugger> Fair enough. The abstract didn't encourage me to reconsider my doubts.
06:59 < kuudes> psychopathy has a confusor, where terms are unclear
06:59 < kuudes> and there seems to be at least 1 mainstream school in psychlogy which defines psychopathy so that it is so strongly connected to low iq that it is really hard to connect it to success in corporations
07:00 < kuudes> there is also a relatively strong (layman?) school which purports the concept that leaders are psychopaths
07:00 < kuudes> I think there may likely be a term mixup or something
07:00 < kuudes> perhaps narcissism or something would be a better term?
07:01 < kuudes> it seems really unlikely that there would be many iq <85 corporate leaders
07:02 < kuudes> this is somewhat similar to autism spectrum diseases, where there is folk psychology connection between very high iq and aspergers, even though this likely is false
07:02 < kuudes> and may come up from the term confusion that "high iq" as a specific term in autism research is a term which means "iq > 85"
07:03 < kuudes> so yeah, aspergers are "high iq autists", but that does not mean they have iq > 130, but iq > 85
07:05 < kuudes> then again, there is also the possibility that US and many other countries differ in these cases as well - it seems US has deeper amount of low iq performance than europe maybe, even though high iq prevalence may be same (or sometimes maybe even higher). but these are hard to say, as we still lack much of population level statistics on the matter
07:08 < CaptHindsight> what percentage of psychologists think that they are studying science?
07:10 < justanotheruser> probably most the research psychologists
07:10 < kanzure> sleeptypes.txt from yesterday has lots of "okay! we are ready arent' we. okay the first official meeting of new anime club is starting right now. we would all like to welcome our first new member, this guy. say hi to this guy. he comes from okinawa province and likes noodles. and he ha that super cute bb8 robot so that's pretty cool."
07:11 < kanzure> but wikipedia says there's no such thing as okinawa province
07:12 < CaptHindsight> province, prefecture why argue over words?
07:13 < kanzure> oh
07:14 < kanzure> yeah okinawa does seem to exist, weird
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07:33 < JayDugger> wearable Hand tracking kickstarter, 40-60 ms latency seems high to me.
07:33 < JayDugger> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/asdffilms/gest-work-with-your-hands
07:36 < kanzure> i think my keyboard sometimes gets my keypresses at an 11-16 ms interval
07:36 < kanzure> i think we need like 3-4 accelerometers per finger, then some touch/force sensors, and then some wrist flicking sensors and arm movement sensors.
07:37 < kanzure> lots of degrees of freedom to abuse
07:38 < kanzure> https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/004/788/475/0ead26756d62d5f7d95d87d634df0da0_original.gif?v=1446064797&w=680&fit=max&q=92&s=8fcf6ff93428a8267a9d3631ca079301
07:38 < kanzure> wait what's the claim for the origin of that latency?
08:01 < JayDugger> From their kickstarter page.
08:02 < JayDugger> My 20 minute latency originates in my wife calling me.
08:47 < kanzure> no i mean it's the data processing lag?
08:47 < kanzure> or finger movement lag? can't be finger movement lag.
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09:07 < JayDugger> I misunderstood your question. I don't know the answer.
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09:10 < kanzure> http://aslsafari.blogspot.com/2006/05/do-deaf-sign-in-their-sleep.html
09:10 < kanzure> "Yes, some Deaf do sign in their sleep. My wife and I have both caught each other doing it. Very difficult to make any sense out of it though. (So, I reckon our secrets are safe.) Yes, sleep signing can and does occur in people who have learned ASL later in life."
09:34 < kuudes> isn't it an anime trope for a person to be from okinawa (less urban, outsider) and eat (much) (noodles)?
09:35 < kanzure> i wouldn't know
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12:43 < kanzure> wiley.com sent out some spammy email today titled "Respecting your privacy" but really it's just promotional material for their retrosynthetic analysis software platform thingy (simbiosys)
12:43 < kanzure> how about if you cared about privacy you'd take my name out of your margins
12:45 < kanzure> google analytics now recommends their analytics-users install an http proxy so that ad blockers don't as-easily cause analytics-users to lose out on data https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10473575
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13:01 < FourFire> IQ 130 is pretty damn high
13:01 < FourFire> wouldn't IQ >110 already be high IQ by GenPop standards?
13:03 < kanzure> kuudes must be a member of the cult of iq worship
13:04 < kuudes> well, yeah, but the point is that there is folk misunderstanding that "high iq" -> aspergers which is false
13:05 < kuudes> same for similar "high iq" -> negative thing X
13:07 < kuudes> and then again http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2436765 etc
13:07 < kanzure> i appreciate that you did not deny the iq worship claim
13:07 < kuudes> "Are CEOs Born Leaders? Lessons from Traits of a Million Individuals"
13:07 < kuudes> "CEOs have higher cognitive and non-cognitive ability scores and are taller than typical members of the population."
13:08 < kuudes> I am not sure if I disagree or not with you kanzure, but I believe you in general have well founded opinions on many topics
13:09 < kanzure> there's a strong history of bias towards iq from the lesswrong direction, easier if i don't have to dig up evidence hehe
13:09 < kanzure> not sure what the focus is re: CEOs, why not COOs or CLOs or CTOs.
13:09 < kuudes> well ceos are easier to avail because they are just register drivers
13:10 < kuudes> keloharju and others have more papers on where they just cross link nordic military iq tests and population registry
13:11 < kuudes> http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/juhani.linnainmaa/IQandParticipation_JF2011.pdf is a major paper where they cross link some 6-7 population registry sources
13:11 < kuudes> to get iq for each side of stock trade in helsinki stock exchange trades for some 10 years or so
13:11 < kanzure> for every stock trade?
13:11 < kanzure> or, er, what?
13:12 < kuudes> as there is conscription at that time in finland, so all male iq is known because otherwise you go to prisonj
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13:12 < kanzure> iq or prison, tough choice for me
13:12 < kuudes> and all stock trades are tracked by social security id to either person's own iq or their brother's or fathers iq
13:13 < kuudes> and to their portfolio stats and tax stats and location stats etc
13:13 < kuudes> and those are really not any samples but the whole population and tax registry
13:13 < kuudes> that is the most invasive population level study I have ever seen
13:14 < kuudes> even PIAAC falls short of that
13:14 < kuudes> no voluntarism required - all data comes from mandatory sources
13:16 < kuudes> http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/juhani.linnainmaa/grinblatt-keloharju-linnainmaa_jfe2012_advance.pdf and http://www.haas.berkeley.edu/groups/finance/20130516%20IQFundChoice%20SSRN.pdf are from the same source iirc
13:17 < kuudes> one finding was that around < iq 115 people make suboptimal choices and sort of in general cannot really be considered as rational investors. such is problematic, if 5/6 of population cannot really participate to stock markets or expected to so
13:19 < kanzure> i'm pretty sure it would be impossible to prove that high iq correlates with being incapable of irrationality
13:20 < kanzure> unless you have weak definitions of incapable i guess
13:20 < maaku> kuudes: you do know that iq merely tests your ability to take an iq test?
13:20 < kuudes> can you rephrase that with lesser amount of multiple-negatives, kanzure?
13:21 < kuudes> maaku, you are welcome to go to an iq test and get max scores there...
13:21 < maaku> kuudes: you do know that people do exactly that?
13:21 < kuudes> no, I do not know. do you?
13:23 < kanzure> often there's just a handful of variations you have to know for iq test taking, like the "shifting" methods and the "acceleration" methods
13:23 < maaku> yes, it's basically the same as getting perfects on the SAT/ACT
13:23 < maaku> entirely possible with sufficient effort
13:24 < kanzure> re: without the multiple negatives.... "high iq does not prevent irrationality".
13:24 < kanzure> wait, without
13:24 < kanzure> "high iq does not ensure rationality"
13:25 < maaku> you know what sorts of questions are asked, what's being looked for, and you build yourself an internal expert system for categorizing questions and appropriate strategies for each
13:25 < kanzure> and hten there's the somewhat more trivial visual rotation questions
13:25 < maaku> this is how, e.g., my friend who coaches students for the SAT is able to sit down for the test every single year and get a perfect score
13:26 < kuudes> kanzure, I agree, that we currently don't yet have enough high iqs that the dysrationalities such as Kahnemann mentions could be clearly overcome
13:26 < FourFire> kanzure, your statement and "ratiomality requires [higher than X] IQ are not mutually exclusive
13:26 < maaku> FourFire: answer us what IQ is actually measuring and we can talk about that statement
13:26 < kuudes> the data seems to suggest that at least those tests that I have seen on rationality, could be overcome around iq 145 or higher, but prevalence of those iqs is currently still rather rare
13:26 < FourFire> but by IQ I usually mean G, except you can't really measure G
13:27 < kuudes> maaku, clearly there are many people who would like to get perfect score on SAT but don't seem to manage to
13:27 < FourFire> unless anyone here knows of a better way to measure General intelligence than correlating from IQ?
13:27 < kuudes> or do you claim that all people who don't score max SAT are just too lazy? :-o
13:27 < maaku> kuudes: you're missing the point -- what you do to get a perfect SAT is a systematic. it's a time consuming process, yes, but anyone can do it
13:27 < FourFire> > laziness is an inherent personality trait
13:28 < FourFire> maaku, except those who can't
13:28 < kuudes> I know only some 1/3 get in to medicine in my locale, and many people pay large amounts in prep school and try multiple years but don't get in
13:28 < kuudes> maaku, I disagree.
13:28 < kuudes> there are many people who cannot do basic addition
13:28 < maaku> FourFire: unless you are being pedantic about genuine intellectual disabilities, you're asserting that without data
13:28 < kuudes> and I have met people who cannot ever throw a ball
13:29 < FourFire> maaku, anecdata, my own.
13:29 < kuudes> clearly those people have non-overcomeable problems re those tasks
13:29 < kuudes> and it is not just that they are too lazy to learn
13:29 < kanzure> rather bleak outlook on things; i think it would be easier and more useful to conclude that they probably have lousy teahers.
13:29 < kanzure> *lousy teachers
13:29 < maaku> kuudes: you're conflating "someone can't do X now" with "someone is inherently incapable of doing X"
13:29 < FourFire> maaku, oh, if I use a charitable definition of "genuine intellectual disabilities" in order to save time, then you automatically exclude a bunch of the population for free
13:29 < kuudes> I have taught people.
13:30 < kanzure> maaku: i have never benefited from knowing about iq
13:30 < FourFire> what about those people you exclude
13:30 < kuudes> but yeah. this conversation likely does not bring much fruit to either party
13:30 < maaku> kanzure: that's the simple truth
13:30 < FourFire> maaku, not to mention that there are multiple areas you can have capability in (though G appears to be a general multiplier of capability in most/all areas)
13:30 < kuudes> you are too invested in your opinion that iq is zilch, and I am too invested into my opinion that iq is an useful measure.
13:31 < kuudes> I am pessimistic of the usefulness of continuing this conversation to either of us, or the audience.
13:31 < maaku> FourFire: G is nonsense, but I lack the stamina to debate this
13:31 < FourFire> maaku, "genuine intellectual disabilities" seems like a nonsensical term to me
13:32 < kuudes> piaac is a main study on general aptitude, you may want to look into it. http://skills.oecd.org/OECD_Skills_Outlook_2013.pdf
13:32 < kanzure> kuudes: what is pessimistic about not having found any utility about iq?
13:32 < FourFire> maaku, would you prefer to discuss "agency" or is that term nonsensical to you as well?
13:32 < kanzure> kuudes: the utility of this conversation to you, the potential utility at least, is that you might be convinced that there are other more productive ways to investigate the human brain
13:32 < kuudes> kanzure, what should we expect to gain with this dicussion?
13:32 < maaku> FourFire: I would prefer people not think their limitations are inherent. as soon as you go down that road you case is helpless
13:33 < kanzure> just said
13:34 < kuudes> I do not hold such true that holding that the general findings to psychometry false would be necessary to learn of human mind
13:34 < FourFire> maaku, my issue with what I think you are proposing is that you're basically saying "anyone can do [x intellectual feat] just so long as their agency is artificially inflated with the appropriate amount of conscientiousness/self-discipline/attention-span/work-ethic
13:34 < maaku> "my IQ test score is 102. welp, guess I'm not a genius" OR "my IQ is 143, so shut up" <-- neither is useful, so what's the point?
13:34 < kuudes> but but.
13:35 < FourFire> my point is that some people cannot at present, and might never get enhancements to either or all of those qualities
13:35 < kuudes> mm. indeed. I am off. it seems I am hungry and eating would be more utile for me.
13:35 < kuudes> thank you, have a nice day! :)
13:35 < kanzure> kuudes: there's a great deal we can do with neurosciene without thinking about iq, such as the development of microelectrode arrays, deep brain stimulation, remote brain stimulation, optogenetics, molecular tickertape recording at single-spike resolution (a recent favorite), voltage sensors for mri reporting, ultrasound contrast agents, genetic knockout, gene therapy, etc. etc.
13:35 < kanzure> *neuroscience
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13:35 < FourFire> maaku, I am sympathetic to that viewpoint, but I'm as of yet undecided as to whether it is intellectually honest to delude myself into believing it.
13:36 < kanzure> most "intellectual feats" can be broken up into other sets of tasks, sort of like mapreduce
13:36 < maaku> FourFire: given that there is zero, ZERO neurological evidence for IQ, g-factor, etc., I would say it is intellectually dishonest to believe in it, but whatevs
13:37 < kanzure> you can "believe" in whatever you want, but when you have to actually implement technology or build things or do things, i have no idea what the knowledge about iq is going to provide to you... it certainly doesn't tell you where to poke, which genes to poke, etc.
13:38 < kanzure> "these 1200 genes are somewhat related but we have no idea" isn't really that helpful
13:39 < kanzure> FourFire: would it surprise you to learn that my iq is 105?
13:39 < kanzure> well, that's not really fair i guess, that was random web test, and not the previous psychologist-conducted test result. but still.
13:42 < kanzure> maaku: what's the typical evolutionary pressure for modularity? we should just apply that to mouse brain and take whatever we can get out of that. instead of giant hunk of mass that has no discernable modules. i want blob of neurons that very clearly does working memory, and blob of neurons that very clearly does vision, with physical separation and stuff.
13:43 < fenn> thanks for the papers kuudes, i am interested in this topic and this is some amazing data
13:44 < kanzure> yeah the papers were good
13:44 < kanzure> didn't know anyone did iq/stocks studies
13:44 < fenn> G is a statistical property, so it's not surprising that there is no neurological evidence for G itself
13:44 < kanzure> right i thought that some of these were only applicable over large populations or something
13:44 < kanzure> "applicable" for some meaning of "applicable"
13:45 < fenn> i mean G is "the thing that correlates best with all of these different tests of non-learned ability"
13:45 < fenn> and nobody has been able to come up with any tests of ability that don't also correlate with G
13:48 < fenn> frankly i'm surprised this is a contentious point in here
13:49 < kanzure> which point?
13:49 < fenn> that IQ is an important thing to study
13:49 < fenn> it's the best performance test we have so far
13:50 < kanzure> the differences between iq 40 individuals and iq 90 individuals are really trivial in the scheme of things
13:50 < fenn> how else are you supposed to measure progress though
13:50 < kanzure> depends on the goal- for example, monkey cognitive ability can be a very useful agi goal
13:51 < kanzure> human brain matter and monkey brain matter is pretty similar
13:51 < fenn> i think IQ only applies to humans
13:51 < kanzure> performance tests don't seem likely to help with figuring out any of the interesting questions we have at the moment
13:51 < kanzure> s/questions/problems or goals
13:52 < kanzure> "what is memory and how does it work and wtf?" and "working memory, wtf?" and "vision, wtf?"
13:52 < kanzure> i should lay off on talking about vision; we actually have that one nailed down pretty well.
13:52 < fenn> yeah cross vision off the AI list
13:52 < kanzure> well, i mean neuroscience of vision at least
13:52 < fenn> (things that are no longer considered AI)
13:53 < kanzure> or at least, i mean, good theories that seem useful about the visual cortices
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13:54 < kanzure> although you could, fairly, consider semantic object identification to be part of vision or something- like, being able to talk about what you see and identifying objects, which iirc is not a vision system function itself, but in any event if you were to include that then it's still a bunch of open problems in neuroscience
13:54 < kanzure> we have neural emulations of components of the vision system but not all of it
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13:55 < kanzure> not sure what the limitation of those recursive neural vector2word2vec things are.
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13:55 < fenn> have you seen andrej karpathy's deep learning stuff that does scene descriptions?
13:55 < kanzure> no. what is the format of a scene description?
13:55 < FourFire> kanzure, no, it would not surprise me that your "IQ" as determined from a random web test was 105
13:56 < kanzure> damn
13:56 < FourFire> my own sourced equally, is 103, or 108
13:56 < fenn> http://googleresearch.blogspot.com/2014/11/a-picture-is-worth-thousand-coherent.html Automatically captioned: “Two pizzas sitting on top of a stove top oven”
13:56 < FourFire> (and a third which claimed 93)
13:56 < FourFire> The sum of capability, which I call Agency is much more important
13:57 < FourFire> G is just a multiplier
13:57 < kanzure> fenn: not sure why english output like that.
13:57 < fenn> because that's what they programmed it to do
13:57 < fenn> "This kind of system could eventually help visually impaired people understand pictures, provide alternate text for images in parts of the world where mobile connections are slow, and make it easier for everyone to search on Google for images."
13:58 < kanzure> i would rather something like, "okay here is the processed result, now query against it for typical questions like 'what is the scene', or 'what time of day is it'" instead of generating a summarizing sentence. but begger's can't be chosers. whatevs.
13:58 < kanzure> *choosers
13:58 < kanzure> the natural language aspect seems unrelated and weird
13:59 < fenn> it uses two co-trained RNN's to both analyze the image and generate natural language
13:59 < fenn> presumably these were both well worked out problems and the paper was just how to glue them together
14:00 < FourFire> kanzure, Your agency, I rate as the highest of any trnashumanist I've yet met
14:00 < kanzure> what's its iq >:3
14:00 < FourFire> so there's that
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14:00 < fenn> need i bring up the perl IQ test taker software again
14:02 < kanzure> yes actually
14:02 < kanzure> seems like reasonable thing to bring up
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14:04 < fenn> um, well too bad
14:05 < fenn> this is the perl iq test taker software: http://users.dsic.upv.es/~jorallo/iq/iq.html
14:07 < kanzure> hopefully "highest agency transhumanist" is not "highest ageny human", because i would be v. disappointed
14:08 < fenn> the paper "a computer program capable of passing iq tests" was mentioned at the same time http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.118.6308&rep=rep1&type=pdf
14:08 < fenn> personally i think these chatbot things are a complete waste of time
14:09 < kanzure> is that how you really feel about me
14:09 < fenn> i would be more interested in the iq score of a RNN trained on image/scene analysis
14:09 < kanzure> oops wait where's gradstudentbot
14:10 < fenn> i mean stuff like the loebner prize and other turing test stuff
14:11 < fenn> the fact that you can write a program that generates iq tests, and then write a program that solves the same iq tests, is not impressive at all
14:11 < kanzure> .wik viterbi algorithm
14:11 < yoleaux> "The Viterbi algorithm is a dynamic programming algorithm for finding the most likely sequence of hidden states – called the Viterbi path – that results in a sequence of observed events, especially in the context of Markov information sources and hidden Markov models." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viterbi_algorithm
14:11 < kanzure> xentrac suggests viterbi algorithm for keyboard typing misalignment fixup
14:13 < kanzure> 14:12 <+ucb> kanzure: is this for sleep typing? see how keyloggers do. There's some code out there where you can input roughly "positions" in a keyboard (by pressing keys) and it'll align them based on dictionaries for instance.
14:13 < fenn> yeah but what are they called
14:13 < kanzure> 14:13 <+ucb> sorry, not keyloggers
14:13 < kanzure> 14:13 <+kanzure> what are they called
14:13 < kanzure> 14:13 <+ucb> say you've gleaned at somebody typing a password
14:14 < kanzure> 14:13 <+ucb> and you remember roughly the spots on the keyboard
14:14 < kanzure> 14:14 <+kanzure> i just use my memory of a keyboard for that
14:14 < kanzure> 14:14 <+ucb> these things will generate a list of potential words based on these spots
14:15 < kanzure> doesn't know name
14:19 < FourFire> "<maaku> FourFire: given that there is zero, ZERO neurological evidence for IQ, g-factor, etc., I would say it is intellectually dishonest to believe in it, but whatevs" do you mean to imply that there is no difference in cognitive ability between people besides "genuine intellectual disabilities"?
14:19 < FourFire> because, sure, I share the transhumanist goal that everyone should be maximally enhanced
14:19 < kanzure> http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Rajesh_Kumar316/publication/268279049_Beware_Your_Hands_Reveal_Your_Secrets!/links/547132010cf24af340c3ba73.pdf
14:19 < fenn> beware!
14:19 < FourFire> but that definition of disability is... slippery
14:19 < kanzure> FourFire: there was someone in here that wanted forceful uploadng of everyone. "should be maximally enhanced" is difficult phrasing :-).
14:19 < maaku> FourFire: sorry, I find this topic uninteresting and I'm sorry I engaged. I hope you can find more productive things to do than think about IQ and who has it.
14:22 < kanzure> "smudge attacks"
14:23 < fenn> is that like a smear attack
14:25 < FourFire> "<kanzure> hopefully "highest agency transhumanist" is not "highest ageny human", because i would be v. disappointed" of course not.
14:25 < kanzure> wonder if anyone has tried to do als hand gesture capture during sleep
14:25 < FourFire> tranhumanism as a movement has been terribly disappointing in reaching it's goals
14:25 < kanzure> er not als, the other one
14:26 < FourFire> much much more success has been reached by mass murderers who acquire significant political power
14:26 < FourFire> and I'm not sure most of them even coordinate
14:27 < fenn> ASL?
14:27 < kanzure> yes that one
14:27 < fenn> hard to do ASL with lou gehrig's disease :P
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14:29 < kanzure> another one http://www.ijicic.org/ijicic-10-09032.pdf
14:29 < kanzure> "Password cracking based on special keyboard patterns" http://www.ijicic.org/ijicic-10-09032.pdf
14:30 < kanzure> key coordinates and keyboard euclid distance looks about right...
14:31 < fenn> hmmm euclid distance is the magic keyword
14:32 < fenn> i was calling it "typo distance" and lo and behold someone has written the program in the meanwhile: https://github.com/wsong/Typo-Distance
14:32 < kanzure> hey that typogenerator looks like fun
14:33 < fenn> oh nm this only outputs a distance between two words and nothing else
14:33 < kanzure> right, well, just generate typos from the input text, then pick the "typo" that is in the dictionary
14:34 < fenn> i don't think that would work because you'd have to randomly make letters_per_word typos of the same type in a row
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14:35 < kanzure> hrm
14:36 < kanzure> well maybe just do coordinate shifts and translations based on whether key is on right/left half of keyboard, pick whatever results happen to be in the dictionary
14:36 < kanzure> a partially-interactive tool might be more useful because once you know the offset it seems to stick for the remainder of the sentence or something
14:37 < fenn> yeah and the "ciphertext" has a ton of typos anyway
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14:37 < fenn> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/29233888/edit-distance-such-as-levenshtein-taking-into-account-proximity-on-keyboard
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14:57 < kanzure> er, i looked up sign language during sleep but not emg + throat during sleep?
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14:59 < kanzure> "Dreamed Speech and Speech Muscle Activity" http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-8986.1986.tb00620.x/abstract
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14:59 < kanzure> "When phasic discharges occurred in speech muscles during either Stage REM or Stage 2, recall of speech in dreams was prevalent, while such recall was not observed when discharges occurred in nonspeech muscles. Moreover, recall of speech in dreams was rarely observed when no muscle phasic discharges occurred. These results suggest that speech in dreams may be accompanied by phasic discharges of speech muscles."
14:59 -!- MegaJoule is now known as zuul
14:59 < kanzure> megajuul sounds like a great nick
15:04 < kanzure> about 10% of children are sleeptalkers http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Rubens_Reimao/publication/265058956_Prevalence_of_sleep-talking_in_childhood/links/53fdd1f00cf2364ccc0914c9.pdf
15:05 < kanzure> doesn't look like anyone has looked at sleep and subvocalization -_-
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15:08 < kanzure> oh, why does the wikipedia article claim that subvocalization is only associated with reading? is that true
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15:13 < kanzure> "obviously they aren't talking, they are sleeping and you can't hear anything"
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17:07 < kanzure> .title http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3953855/
17:07 < yoleaux> The total burden of rare, non-synonymous exome genetic variants is not associated with childhood or late-life cognitive ability
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17:17 < kanzure> .title http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/hast.493/abstract
17:17 < yoleaux> The Trustworthiness Deficit in Postgenomic Research on Human Intelligence - Richardson - 2015 - Hastings Center Report - Wiley Online Library
17:34 < kanzure> "Adhesive force of a single gecko foot-hair"
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17:36 < kanzure> .wik scansor
17:36 < yoleaux> "Ectenessa scansor is a species of beetle in the family Cerambycidae. It was described by Gounelle in 1909." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ectenessa_scansor
17:36 < kanzure> wrong scansor..
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17:46 < kanzure> http://mixupload.com/en/track/abbate-las_hojas_que_no_vemos_original_mix
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18:02 < kanzure> greetings TheoryCat
18:03 < TheoryCat> hello
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18:15 < fenn> what does "The total burden of rare, non-synonymous exome genetic variants" mean?
18:18 < fenn> i guess they are talking about gene knockouts, in genes which are apparently unrelated to cognitive performance
18:18 < fenn> it would be surprising if gene knockouts had no effect on cognitive performance
18:19 < fenn> "the enemy cannot press a button if he has no hand"
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18:35 < fenn> .title http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0038110160900046
18:35 < yoleaux> The scansor, a new multi-aperture rectangular-loop ferrite device
18:36 < fenn> boring
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18:51 < kanzure> no it was the one about geckos
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21:01 < kanzure> snarf
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21:02 < kanzure> .title http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2013-February/002189.html
21:02 < yoleaux> [Bitcoin-development] Fidelity-bonded ledgers
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