--- Log opened Thu Nov 05 00:00:16 2015
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05:05 < kanzure> seanph: fix your connection?
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06:31 < kanzure> "Skip-thought vectors" http://arxiv.org/abs/1506.06726
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06:41 < JayDugger> Good morning, everyone.
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06:45 < poppingtonic> hello
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06:50 < seanph> hello
06:51 < kanzure> what's up?
06:52 < JayDugger> My wife's interest in Bitcoin, although that will probably pass today.
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06:52 < JayDugger> I am very impressed by the recent discussion about xenotransplantation and kosher.
06:53 < JayDugger> Has anyone considered whether bio-compatible pigs will taste more like people?
06:54 < kanzure> yeah i dunno if anyone breeds their livestock for meat tastefulness
06:55 < kuudes> I have understood that people would taste more like pigs than cattle, but have not tested that...
06:55 < JayDugger> Uhh...most beef ranchers at a guess, though I doubt they do anything like biopsies followed by cooking.
06:56 < kanzure> well to breed for taste you have to keep samples for future insemination before butchering
06:56 < kanzure> and i'm not sure if anyone does that
07:00 < JayDugger> I don't know either, though I'd be really surprised if that didn't happen.
07:01 < JayDugger> .wik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meat#Human_intervention
07:01 < yoleaux> "Meat is animal flesh that is eaten as food.:1 Humans are omnivorous, and have hunted and killed animals for meat since prehistoric times. The advent of civilization allowed the domestication of animals such as chickens, sheep, pigs and cattle, and eventually their use in meat production on an industrial scale." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meat
07:01 < JayDugger> Not the quote I expected.
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07:01 < JayDugger> "Artificial insemination is now routinely used to produce animals of the best possible genetic quality, and the efficiency of this method is improved through the administration of hormones that synchronize the ovulation cycles within groups of females.[3]:33"
07:03 < kanzure> yeah but that's usually for meat production growth rate reasons, or stock germline trading between ranchers
07:03 < JayDugger> I find it hard to imagine that pigs (PERVs?) would ever get slaughtered and butchered.
07:04 < JayDugger> I expect you're right. I don't know whether taste is directly used as a criterion, or whether body fat % or another biomarker serves as a proxy for flavorfulness.
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07:45 < kanzure> "american chemical society partners with figshare" ok i guess.
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09:36 < kanzure> "I am patient zero for exogenous GDF11 supplementation.  Note that I am a software developer, not a molecular biologist nor an MD.  Needless to say, I have always been a believer in the programmatic theory of aging. Attached is my GDF11 study as well as some backup data.  I look forward to your thoughts and feedback." - Steve Perry <steveperry@nyc.rr.com>
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09:38 < kanzure> "Q Fever Outbreak Among Travelers to Germany Who Received Live Cell Therapy" http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6438a3.htm?s_cid=mm6438a3_w
09:38 < kanzure> "Live cell therapy is the practice of injecting processed cells from organs or fetuses of nonhuman animals (e.g., sheep) into human recipients (1). It is advertised to treat a variety of health conditions. This practice is unavailable in the United States; however, persons can travel to foreign locations to receive injections."
09:39 < kanzure> "The five New York patients had traveled in a group of 10–15 persons to the state of Rhineland-Palatinate in Germany to receive intramuscular injections of fetal sheep cells from a German physician on May 30, 2014."
09:40 < kanzure> "Second WHO Global Consultation on Regulatory Requirements for Xenotransplantation Clinical Trials" http://www.who.int/transplantation/xeno/report2nd_global_consultation_xtx.pdf?ua=1
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09:56 < maaku> kanzure: you don't have to do artificial insemination to breed for taste
09:56 < maaku> just favor descendents of the tastiest cow
09:56 < kanzure> well, presumably you don't want to breed things that are going to taste poorly
09:57 < kanzure> your favoring method would work but would have more untastey results, i think.
09:57 < kanzure> or er, would have more untastey intermediates
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10:06 < kanzure> pg startup essays but in a book instead http://playbook.samaltman.com/
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10:36 < justanotheruser> and not by pg?
10:36 < kanzure> sam and pg ideas are probably indistinguishable at this point
10:37 < justanotheruser> Good read so far
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11:49 < kanzure> wikipedia should have a deletionpedia purgatory where all deletes are forwarded. all reversions too. merge conflicts can be kept side-by-side and show tree history stuff awaiting human intervention for re-merging.
11:50 < kanzure> this is similar to current bitcoin-dev moderation policy where moderated messages are autoforwarded to rusty russell's bitcoin-dev-moderated mailing list for public display
11:54 < fenn> link to steve perry gdf11 paper?
11:55 < kanzure> was stupid email attachment
11:55 < kanzure> state level of priority of request
11:55 < fenn> also "patient zero" is a weird thing to say
11:56 < kanzure> glory seeking, probably
11:56 < fenn> please redistribute on diyhpl.us at your convenience
11:59 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/gdf11-steve-perry/
12:00 < fenn> wow it's been 1.5 years since the young blood thing?
12:01 < fenn> 403
12:02 < kanzure> try now
12:02 < kanzure> https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki/blob/master/includes/WebStart.php
12:02 < kanzure> mediawiki source code quality may be reason for lack of alternative wikipedia experiments, but source code doesn't look as bad as i recall
12:03 < fenn> pretty sure there are a zillion "alternative wikipedia" projects
12:03 < kanzure> but none with interesting variations on the "rules" or whatever
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12:04 < fenn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deletionpedia
12:04 < kanzure> fuck
12:04 < kanzure> well they get points for naming it correctly so that others can come up with the same name without actually looking
12:05 < fenn> related projects: Pluspedia.org, a German project to create a wiki without relevance criteria
12:05 < kanzure> wikipedia itself should experiment with probabilistic delete button
12:07 < kanzure> i want a scholarpedia (yes i know scholarpedia exists, sigh) that has laser focus on thorough popplerian content like making null hypotheses that don't completely suck and putting them everywhere
12:07 < kanzure> but this is unrelated to my "where are the mediawiki experiments" question
12:08 < kanzure> (different content is the primary variation that most wikis have)
12:09 < fenn> http://fennetic.net/irc/Results%20of%20my%201.5%20years%20of%20injecting%20exogenous%20GDF11.txt less annoying format
12:20 < fenn> "I believe I am the first human to inject GDF11.  It was definitely a risky proposition, but so is letting aging take its course."
12:21 < fenn> i wonder if this would pass "ethical review"
12:22 < kanzure> you should judge only against your own ethics- if there were forms of warranted caution that he skipped out on, then did he properly disclose these and provide at least some reason why? etc.
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12:28 < fenn> it's more that i was whining about the fact that this is being done by some guy in his basement rather than being pursued with gusto by a large research organization
12:29 < kanzure> strategy is not something that most research organizations focus on
12:29 < kanzure> convincing people to drop their pet projects for another project is also pretty hard
12:29 < fenn> obviously aging is fatal but for some reason this is ignored when considering the risks of medical treatments
12:30 < kanzure> especially when they have fought for bloody grant money their whole life just to finally get a chance at their own pet project
12:31 < kanzure> blood stained with the tears of all the grad student dreams that you.. hm... well, i'm sure someone will flesh this out for me.
12:31 < fenn> well whatever, it's N=1 and no control group and no double-blind etc etc and these things would be done better as a matter of course if the medical establishment didn't have its head up its ass
12:33 < fenn> i sort of wish he included before/after photos while we're being unscientific
12:33 < kanzure> disappointed with lack of speculation and theorizing in science in general. amount of speculation in hplusroadmap is way higher than average speculative density of most research papers, which is very strange to me. you have to iterate through a whole bunch of models to find stuff that doesn't fit the data, and which things might. and i don't see this happening often in papers.
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12:38 < fenn> the good news is that the effects of GDF11 appear quickly so we don't have to wait around for people to get older and die
12:40 < Aurelius_Work2> fenn : have human trials done shit?
12:40 < fenn> i haven't seen any human trials yet (except this one)
12:41 < Aurelius_Work2> fenn : stanford is running an alzheimers one
12:41 < fenn> "patients with Alzheimer's disease will be given blood from younger people" not the same
12:42 < Aurelius_Work2> could have sworn it was gdf11 specific
12:42 < Aurelius_Work2> my b
12:42 < fenn> "In October of 2014, the research team will conduct 30 blood plasma transfusions to older adults who have mild to moderate Alzheimer’s disease."
12:43 < fenn> they're both good studies to do; there were something like a dozen different blood proteins that could contribute to the anti-aging effect, but we also don't know much about the effect of whole-blood transfusion on aging
12:44 < Aurelius_Work2> Reading this I'm curious at what age it's worth dosing gdf11
12:45 < fenn> i'd like to test it on young people too
12:45 < fenn> it's not the "reverse aging protein" it does something physical
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12:49 < kanzure> jrayhawk: git-bigstore yes/no?
12:50 < kanzure> oh seems to just be s3 backend. so probably no.
13:07 < kanzure> "When I was in Ukraine, I saw numerous heterochronic parabiosis experiments (some of them are published in Rejuvenation research journal where Aubreys is editor)  and non of them had any longterm rejuvenation effects, although in some cases there were some shorterm effects"
13:08 < drethelin> hey guys guess what you can now go to www.fugenehd.com
13:09 < drethelin> and read all about how cool it is
13:09 < drethelin> and look at lots of pictures
13:13 < Aurelius_Work2> oh god you have two logos
13:13 < Aurelius_Work2> drethelin : did you do the css?
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13:41 < drethelin> aurelius: the logos thing is my dad's fault
13:41 < drethelin> and not I
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14:03 < kanzure> "Yeah I just pulled up the microbial nootropics log before I called you... My kind of thing"
14:03 < kanzure> finally my spammy ways of leaving my phone number all around the web have paid off
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15:27 < kanzure> i thought source code wasn't public for this extension? https://github.com/piroor/treestyletab
15:30 < kanzure> and some strange fork of the same https://github.com/windsurfer/treestyletab
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19:48 < CCortex> Hi everybody
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20:28 < kanzure> CCortex_: hi
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21:11 < CCortex_> still here kanzure ?
21:13 < CCortex_> or anybody else ?
21:13 < CCortex_> I guess it's not the right time..
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21:17 < CCortex_> Hi nmz787  and abram
21:17 < abram> hi CCortex_
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21:19 < CCortex_> I just found this irc channel while digging on nootropics
21:19 < CCortex_> but I don't see a lot of activity
21:20 < CCortex_> where are you based guys ?
21:21 < nmz787_i> internet
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21:21 < nmz787_i> some ppl are upstream, some are downstream... but we're all from the ether
21:22 < nmz787_i> there's more activity here than IRL for me, usually, or at least comparable
21:22 < CCortex_> hmm ok
21:23 < CCortex_> I'll just wait
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21:29 < nmz787_i> you can read the logs
21:29 < nmz787_i> there are years of them
21:29 < nmz787_i> and the wiki
21:30 < CCortex_> I saw them
21:30 < CCortex_> I'm here because I want to make a team
21:31 < CCortex_> I'm looking at places where I can find people interested in nootropics
21:31 < nmz787_i> about?
21:31 < nmz787_i> team about?
21:31 < CCortex_> some projects I have about these substances
21:31 < nmz787_i> it would be easier for us to tell you where you are, so others nearby can speak up
21:31 < nmz787_i> if you want IRL meeting
21:32 < nmz787_i> otherwise this is the right place to discuss that stuff
21:32 < CCortex_> what is this ? IRL
21:32 < nmz787_i> in real life
21:32 < CCortex_> haha sorry...
21:32 < CCortex_> no need for irl
21:32 < CCortex_> through internet is fine
21:32 < CCortex_> as long as people are motivated
21:33 < nmz787_i> then fire away
21:33 < CCortex_> there is plenty of good ways for working like this
21:33 < nmz787_i> people idle will speak up, or reply when they awake from sleeping
21:34 < nmz787_i> (we haven't figured out getting rid of sleep yet)
21:34 < CCortex_> haha
21:34 < CCortex_> it's part of the nature
21:34 < CCortex_> anyway
21:35 < CCortex_> I'm using plants for cures since I can remember
21:35 < CCortex_> but my favorite topic is nootropic
21:36 < nmz787_i> plants are pretty good
21:36 < CCortex_> some years ago it was kind of unknown and now people are becoming crazy about it
21:36 < CCortex_> so I'm working on some way to deliver the knowledge
21:36 < nmz787_i> people were reading and discussing this earlier http://fennetic.net/irc/Results%20of%20my%201.5%20years%20of%20injecting%20exogenous%20GDF11.txt
21:37 < nmz787_i> GDF11 is more of a 'biologic' than a 'nootropic'... but that's just semantics really
21:37 < CCortex_> and the products
21:38 < CCortex_> I went throught every retailler I could find but I'm not very happy about it
21:38 < CCortex_> I tested sooo many things
21:38 < CCortex_> my body and my spirit are part of my lab
21:39 < CCortex_> and what I see is that this new wave is kind of following the pharma mindset
21:39 < CCortex_> What I found is that the ancient type of taking things is much more efficient and pleasant
21:40 < CCortex_> but it's more time consuming
21:40 < CCortex_> so for the people sharing the same philosophy as me
21:40 < CCortex_> or wants to participate here is the thing
21:41 < CCortex_> an appli listing all of these plants
21:41 < nmz787_i> well you need both, they're sort of a test.... somethings don't function when they are pure, they need paired with some buddy molecules
21:41 < nmz787_i> etc
21:41 < nmz787_i> (i.e. why complex extracts may be more effective)
21:41 < CCortex_> by appli I mean : website and app for phones
21:41 < CCortex_> exactly
21:41 < nmz787_i> isn't that what herbalpedia is?
21:42 < CCortex_> let me check it
21:42 < nmz787_i> you may be interested in this also: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/genetic-modifications/
21:42 < nmz787_i> basically if you know what's going on, you can just work on hard-coding it into the genome
21:43 < nmz787_i> /me give a man a nootropic, and he'll buzz for a day -- teach his old genome new tricks, and he'll buzz on for his whole life
21:43 < nmz787_i> (or hers, or theirs)
21:44 < CCortex_> so why not simply play on the epigenetic side for the change of the genome ?
21:44 < nmz787_i> can't do everything that way
21:45 < CCortex_> not everything but a LOT
21:45 < CCortex_> I checked herbalpedia
21:45 < CCortex_> but that's not how I see it
21:45 < nmz787_i> can't epigenetics yourself out of cystic fibrosis
21:47 < CCortex_> it can ! but it requires a lot...
21:47 < CCortex_> I know I might sound a little crazy
21:47 < CCortex_> but I just love to dig into topics I really love
21:48 < CCortex_> there is a lot
21:48 < nmz787_i> yep, if you love learning, your life plan is pretty much set in today's world
21:48 < CCortex_> then I can begin to comprehend many things beyond what I could except
21:49 < CCortex_> so to get back to what I was talking
21:49 < CCortex_> the philosophy about nootropic
21:49 < CCortex_> being a better version of ourself
21:50 < CCortex_> is a multi disciplinar thing
21:50 < nmz787_i> yup
21:51 < nmz787_i> the challenge is organizing and managing experts, because none of them know how to talk to anyone else
21:51 < CCortex_> the idea is to compile all of this knowledge efficiently
21:51 < CCortex_> that's what I want to do
21:51 < CCortex_> and taking care of the IT side of the project
21:52 < CCortex_> but it requires a lot of fields I'm not into
21:52 < CCortex_> so it's always better if we are a group
21:54 < CCortex_> Am I at the right place for this ?
21:55 < nmz787_i> well there are certainly a lot of IT and software and scientists and engineers here
21:57 < CCortex_> the only important thing for me is to find people passionate about this
21:57 < CCortex_> the rest is only bonus
21:57 < nmz787_i> I work on finding ways to make micro and nanofluidics with the goal of build a next-gen DNA synthesizer
21:57 < nmz787_i> I also study analog electronics, and write software
21:58 < nmz787_i> my background is in biotechnology and programming
21:58 < CCortex_> cool
21:58 < CCortex_> where do you live ?
21:59 < nmz787_i> oregon
21:59 < CCortex_> france for me
21:59 < nmz787_i> ah
21:59 < nmz787_i> have you been to the biohackerspace there?
21:59 < nmz787_i> la pallaise? (spelling?)
21:59 < CCortex_> hahaha you know it !
21:59 < nmz787_i> http://lapaillasse.org/
21:59 < CCortex_> almost yeah
22:00 < nmz787_i> yes, we have it noted here, amongst other places: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/groups/#index27h2
22:01 < CCortex_> I've heard of them
22:01 < CCortex_> but didn't go to them yet
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--- Log closed Fri Nov 06 00:00:17 2015