--- Log opened Fri Nov 20 00:00:30 2015
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03:58 < kanzure> docl: protein design is not presently easy, even if you conjecture which type of proteins are required
03:58 < kanzure> nmz787: not sure what you mean about infinite resources
03:59 < kanzure> nmz787: as for "infinite [genetic] landscape realestate", i think you mean "you're assuming that the genetic landscape is structured in a way that makes evolutionary search something able to find positive results" and hell yeah i'm assuming this.
04:02 < kanzure> mutagenesis techniques can be used for arbitrary traversal of genetic landscape for various phenotype outcomes
04:02 < kanzure> prediction of cryo-relevant phenotype outcomes is prolly impossible, but this should not be concerning
04:24 < kanzure> .wik captagon
04:24 < yoleaux> "Fenethylline (BAN, USAN), also spelled phenethylline and fenetylline (INN), and also known as amphetaminoethyltheophylline and amfetyline, is a chemical linkage of amphetamine and theophylline which behaves as a prodrug to both of the aforementioned drugs." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captagon
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04:49 < kanzure> http://wyss.harvard.edu/staticfiles/newsroom/pressreleases/Gene%20drives%20FAQ%20FINAL.pdf
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04:53 < kanzure> "For example, it might take a couple of years to alter an insect population. To put this in perspective, if you introduce a gene drive into only 10 of a constant population of 100,000 organisms, it would take about 16 generations for it to spread to 99% of the population under (unrealistically) optimal conditions."
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04:54 < kanzure> "Gene drives can only reliably edit genes and sequences that are important for the organism's survival and reproduction. Sequences that aren't important can only be removed, not edited."
04:55 < kanzure> "During normal sexual reproduction, each of the two versions of a given gene has a 50% chance of being inherited by a particular offspring (Fig 1A). Gene drives are genetic systems that circumvent these traditional rules: they greatly increase the odds that the drive will be passed to an offspring. This can allow them to spread to all members of a population (Fig 1B) even if they reduce the chance that each individual organism will ...
04:55 < kanzure> ... reproduce. Almost every sexually reproducing species has either an active gene drive or the broken remnants of one in its genome."
04:56 < kanzure> .wik gene drive
04:56 < yoleaux> "Gene drive is the practice of "stimulating biased inheritance of particular genes to alter entire populations." It has been proposed as a technique for changing wild populations of harmful organisms such as mosquitos to be less dangerous." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_drive
04:57 < kanzure> huh this article is getting reasonably long https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRISPR
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05:12 < kanzure> http://gnusha.org/logs/meta/wikipedia-links.2015-11-20.txt
05:18 < kanzure> .wik information hiding
05:18 < yoleaux> "In computer science, information hiding is the principle of segregation of the design decisions in a computer program that are most likely to change, thus protecting other parts of the program from extensive modification if the design decision is changed." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_hiding
05:18 < kanzure> .wik law of demeter
05:18 < yoleaux> "The Law of Demeter (LoD) or principle of least knowledge is a design guideline for developing software, particularly object-oriented programs." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Of_Demeter
05:19 < kanzure> .wik synapsin
05:19 < yoleaux> "The synapsins are a family of proteins that have long been implicated in the regulation of neurotransmitter release at synapses." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synapsin
05:19 < kanzure> "Specifically, they are thought to be involved in regulating the number of synaptic vesicles available for release via exocytosis at any one time.[2]Synapsins are present in invertebrates and vertebrates and are somewhat homologous across evaluated vertebrates. Current studies suggest the following hypothesis for the role of synapsin: synapsins bind synaptic vesicles to components of the cytoskeleton which prevents them from migrating to ...
05:19 < kanzure> ... the presynaptic membrane and releasing neurotransmitter. During an action potential, synapsins are phosphorylated by PKA (cAMP dependent protein kinase), releasing the synaptic vesicles and allowing them to move to the membrane and release their neurotransmitter."
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07:39 < fenn> i don't remember what i asked but it's not obvious to me that a larger population is better for selecting desirable traits than just a higher mutation rate
07:39 < fenn> mutagen is cheaper than gigameat
07:46 < kanzure> i am not sure what that dimensional analysis reduces to
07:46 < kanzure> mutation rate per organism vs mutation rate per organism in a population
07:47 < docl> Mutations are mostly harmful. Having a harmful mutation (or a bunch of them) in the same organism as the beneficial one could mask its effects. So larger populations would be better in that it gives time for selection to occur.
07:47 < kanzure> "gives time for selection"? no, we're the selection pressure.
07:48 < kanzure> we throw some biomatter into liquid nitrogen, thaw it somehow, then look at the results and decide whether to use pre-experiment-collected genomic material
07:49 < docl> Is it more efficient to do that with lots of random changes, or a few? If lots, some of those are going to cross wires.
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10:58 < chris_99> https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn28506-pigeons-taught-to-diagnose-breast-cancer-on-x-rays/
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11:43 < fenn> "pigeons demand equal wages from kaiser permanente"
11:44 < nmz787_i> ⚡
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12:20 < kanzure> muscle parasite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichinella_spiralis
12:22 < kanzure> "Fish eggs as bioreactors: the production of bioactive luteinizing hormone in transgenic trout embryos" http://staff.unak.is/not/oddurv/slt1103/morita.pdf
12:29 < kanzure> gah this one was hard to find again: "Eric McElroy, Andrew George and Isaure de Buron. (2015) The muscle dwelling myxozoan, Kudoa inornata, enhances swimming performance in the spotted seatrout, Cynoscion nebulosus. Parasitology Research."
12:32 < kanzure> fish muscle parasite swimming performance stufff^
12:33 < kanzure> was from http://gnusha.org/logs/2015-06-23.log and http://gnusha.org/logs/2015-06-22.log
12:37 < kanzure> apparently there is a fish that flies for 45 seconds http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7410421.stm
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12:44 < chris_99> anyone seen any cheapo pH probes with a screw thread on per chance, i might resort to something like http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/20-diy/54624-diy-inline-ph-probe.html if needs must though
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14:09 < kanzure> http://mach30.org/2015/11/18/why-we-need-professional-level-open-source-cad/
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14:44 < kanzure> max hodak complaining about technical risk vs market risk http://macro.ycombinator.com/articles/2015/11/science-startups/
14:46 < kanzure> "I’ll talk to founders who are coming from academia about their fundraising, and they’ll say, ‘I talked to 3 people and they all said no.’ That’s not how it works. You need to talk to 300 people." how about 18,000
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20:07 < kanzure> because larger foot prints cover greater surface area
20:17 < kanzure> https://opendesignengine.net/projects/yavin-thruster/repository/entry/trunk/tests/chamber/test_cad.py
20:17 < kanzure> https://github.com/dcowden/cadquery/blob/146ecd589bf721976d20784c50ee49a086c6fd4b/tests/TestCadQuery.py#L268
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--- Log closed Sat Nov 21 00:00:31 2015