--- Log opened Mon Nov 23 00:00:33 2015
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00:53 < archels> .t https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx9I_hYqQcM
00:53 < yoleaux> archels: Sorry, I don't know what timezone that is. If in doubt, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tz_database_time_zones for a list of options.
00:53 < archels> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx9I_hYqQcM
00:53 < yoleaux> Cybathlon 2016: Official Trailer - YouTube
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03:02 < Lorem> hi
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06:15 < kanzure> do cochlear implants have firmware, and does anyone have a dump of cochlear implant firmware?
06:16 < FourFire> kanzure, maybe ask gwern?
06:17 < kanzure> nah he hates me these days
06:17 < FourFire> ?
06:17 < kanzure> totally unresponsive
06:17 < FourFire> damn, do you know how you caused that?
06:18 < kanzure> i pissed all over his beloved iq concept
06:20 < FourFire> Well I'm not fully aware of the extent of my own failure mode on that topic, but I imagine someone who makes a living off analysis and statistics wouldn't like someone calling IQ worthless
06:20 < kanzure> lesswrong is chatty for social sentiment reasons, and other chat is just completely alien to those people.
06:21 < FourFire> I'd say that a majority of the active people in there are starved of interesting conversation with people they can relate to, that's true for me.
06:21 < kanzure> he values almost everything else at 0 because he sees iq as providing engineering insight for brain augmentation; it's pretty absurd. you don't have to make modifications only once knowing whether it has a positive and correct correlation with iq.
06:22 < FourFire> you AB test, (hopefully not irreversible things with your own brain)
06:22 < kanzure> also, every time that i have asked him "what would be necessary for you to be convinced that iq has no utility to you?" he shuts the fuck up and doesn't answer-- which is practically evil. non-fallibility is dangerous and harmful.
06:23 < kanzure> (in that last quote i mean "iq the concept", not "the physical stuff that iq somehow refers to")
06:26 < FourFire> why not start at the other end: what would it take to convince you that there are other metrics of value in measuring intelligence besides IQ?
06:26 < FourFire> well he (and consequently I) refers to G, for general intelligence.
06:26 < kanzure> huh? the other end would be something like, "what would it take to convince kanzure that iq has utility for transhumanism undertakings"
06:28 < kanzure> and the answer would be something like, "an engineering outcome to either increase or decrease intelligence that would be impossible to perform without knowing about iq, or that the concept of iq makes significantly easier to figure out compared to not knowing about iq"
06:28 < TMA> I am some 3/4 through Goleman's Emotional intelligence; in study after study the emotional/social ability predicts life outcomes with greater accuracy than IQ
06:29 < kanzure> how much greater accuracy?
06:29 < FourFire> kanzure, well I think gwern has fundamentally different goals to you (and to some extent me)
06:29 < kanzure> FourFire: so what possible goals does he have that he thinks "knowing about iq" contributes to?
06:29 < FourFire> he's much more about analyzing and predicting things, and you're much more about actually making them happen
06:30 < FourFire> knowing how to measure G through IQ is highly valuable to his goals, but mostly useless to yours
06:30 < kanzure> what predictive ability does he gain from this?
06:31 < kanzure> or, what additional analytical power does this grant him
06:31 < FourFire> kanzure, well flynn effect vs actual intelligence trends in populations over time, supplement studies and such
06:32 < FourFire> I'd ask him about these things, not me because I'm very much not the statistics-analytical type
06:32 < TMA> kanzure: like "outcomes are uncorrelated with IQ, correlated significantly with EI", "teaching skills belonging to emotional intelligence reduces negative outcome from 75% to 25%"
06:32 < kanzure> heh as i said he's not very responsive these days
06:32 < kanzure> what is "negative outcome"? just any arbitrary negative outcome..
06:32 < kanzure> ?
06:33 < TMA> kanzure: like being convicted for a violent crime
06:33 < FourFire> heh if my teachers caught on to why I was being completely ruined by the school system, maybe I'd have made some progress by now...
06:33 < kanzure> TMA: is that really a negative outcome? legal system could be screwed up, so you can't really rely on that.....
06:34 < kanzure> FourFire: what happened to your containers/VMs for setting up your system? did that happen?
06:36 < FourFire> not so far, my VMs crash my PC because of something intel did to Cstates
06:36 < kanzure> do you have a budget?
06:36 < TMA> least popular children from 3rd and 4th grade were selected for training; 50-60% success of the training [the children ceased to be the least popular; they have started to be of average popularity]
06:37 < kanzure> use aws for linux box. actually there's a free tier. so just use that for now.
06:37 < FourFire> kanzure, arguably, being able to trick the system even though it's messed up is the opposite of a negative outcome
06:37 < FourFire> hmm I suppose I could at that
06:37 < FourFire> I haven't really looked into cloud computing services beyond the requirements for my job
06:38 < kanzure> aws has a stupid-simple web wizard thingy to deploy new ec2 box, so you could use that if you are feeling lazy, or use botocore to do auto-spinup of a single box (overkill but fun).
06:39 < FourFire> mhm, the main difficulty previously has been compiling my own version of gromacs which works with CUDA
06:39 < TMA> being least popular is good predictor of drug abuse, drug dealing, crimes against propety (theft, burglary), violent crimes and depression, reportedly
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06:39 < kanzure> FourFire: ec2 also has CUDA-compatible boxes.
06:39 < FourFire> I haven't yet found any finished compiled versions for modernish intel processors
06:39 < FourFire> surely not free ones?
06:39 < kanzure> if they are too expensive for you then i recommend simply turning off the boxes when you are done with configuration.
06:40 < TMA> oh, I have overlooked: 100% success in first study, 50-60% success in second independent study of popularity enhancement
06:40 < FourFire> I mean I basically only have a desktop computer for this purpose, but due to difficuties have ended up running windows and other things on it
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06:40 < kanzure> FourFire: there's a lot of linux people on irc. most problems can be solved. unless you have a ridiculously unique setup with completely evil components.
06:41 < FourFire> Thanks for the encouragement, perhaps I can make some progress after work
06:41 < FourFire> which is pretty soon actually
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06:44 < TMA> It is interesting that the book is 20 years old (1995) and it gathered a great following (there are several follow ups and more studies from different authors) yet there are still people swearing by IQ and IQ alone
06:44 < kanzure> i dunno if qemu (the emulator) has support for cuda.
06:45 < kanzure> local development should be preferred over aws only if the configuration time is not significantly worse
06:45 < kanzure> also you should consder cygwin
06:47 < FourFire> kanzure, I don't have a budget, I've just been unplannedly gradually accruing components and things for my project, I should definitely get more organised on that front
06:47 < FourFire> right after I move to a better apartment and cut my rent by 25%
06:49 < justanotheruser> http://i.imgur.com/UGfoHPM.gif
06:49 < justanotheruser> http://hashbang.gr/breaking-the-4th-wall-with-minecraft/
06:49 < kanzure> why is there a lamp?
06:49 < justanotheruser> I don't understand the question
06:50 < kanzure> wouldn't it be simpler to just remove the lamp from the room..?
06:50 < justanotheruser> to demonstrate minecraft interfacing teh world
06:50 < justanotheruser> what
06:50 < justanotheruser> I cant tell if you're trolling half the time :)
06:50 < kanzure> oh. they wanted to turn a lamp on and off. i see.
06:51 < justanotheruser> Is that kind of stuff appropriate for this channel? My heuristic indicates that top posts on HN are welcome here :)
06:51 < kanzure> certain crazy minecraft things are welcome, i think.
06:52 < FourFire> justanotheruser, anything that's about new ways to expend the capability of humans is on topic, but preferably economic and scalable ways.
06:52 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPU0p8sIAUI
06:52 < yoleaux> Minecraft - DotWare3 (8-Bit Computer with GPU, I/O, 13 Bytes of RAM e.t.c.) - YouTube
06:52 < FourFire> I find myself sometimes wondering how many lives could be saved by a company just ruthlessly engineering cheap as possible medical equipment
06:53 < FourFire> and then trapping the patents in some open source thing which means "you can make money off of this, but so can everyone else"
06:54 < kanzure> if you can figure out where the revenue would come from, that would be very helpful
06:55 < FourFire> oh they'd run a profit, selling to underdeveloped countries if nothing else
06:56 < FourFire> modern prosperity seems to me to be in no small part the ability for our society to produce a much higher volume of substantially lower quality things, which are still usable to some extent instead of a few high quality things, and nothing else
06:56 < FourFire> think: ikea funiture vs oaken posterbeds
06:57 < FourFire> I think that everyone is under supplied with medical infrastructure, even with technology 20 years old
06:59 < kanzure> once upon a time i was thinking of funding cheap equipment engineering with the profit margin from health insurance schemes. but health insurance profit margin is like 3-8%. seems a little unlikely to work out favorably.
07:02 < TMA> I wonder why, with all the progress we have technologywise, everything is so expensive [with expensive = hours of work @ mean or median wage]
07:02 < kanzure> because capital and inflation and scarcity
07:03 < kanzure> and "capital equipment"- the useful stuff basically prints money, so it gets priced even higher
07:05 < kanzure> re: health insurance to focus on super-cheap equipment and super-cheap healthcare; the reason why i thought it wouldn't work out is because i was assuming nation-wide healthcare coverage and catastrophic health insurance stuff. but maybe you could restrict to long-term medical procedures such as cryonics, stem cell extraction, many-years-in-advance planned procedures. then just have giant (single) healthcare facility that you transport ...
07:05 < kanzure> ... people to. handwavy stuff about vertical integration.
07:06 < TMA> I was suspecting safety regulations
07:07 < kanzure> eh i guess that could put a floor on price, but in my experience i haven't seen that as root cause of expensive equipment
07:07 < TMA> and the costs to wage IP war
07:09 < kanzure> "why is [the useful] stuff so expensive?"- another relevant question here is "why is my money so worthless?"
07:11 < FourFire> because you're only supposed to us it to buy ikea furniture (and equivalents) for subsistence
07:12 < FourFire> (given anything about the modern economy was planned, this would have been the consensus amongst the conspirators)
07:13 < TMA> the second question is easier to answer: there is too much money present in the system, so the value of the individual unit is necessarily low
07:13 < TMA> the real rephrasing is 'why is my remuneration so low?'
07:14 < kanzure> also, the price of capital equipment has to include enough profit margin to make up for the somewhat constant depreciation value of the money used for payment
07:14 < kanzure> traditionally the answer to "why is my remuneration so low" is "because you don't practice negotiation" and "you haven't asked for more"
07:16 < TMA> I work in a big corporation. The overhead is insane. But the overhead is used for something. It's not like the money vanishes.
07:16 < kanzure> the money doesn't vanish but the value can
07:16 < kanzure> er, why did you bring that up though?
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07:18 < kanzure> re: "capital equipment is useful so it gets priced even higher to account for the potential profit it can be used to produce"; i take that back, it's not a sufficiently comprehensive explanation.
07:19 < TMA> maybe it was a tangential thought to FourFire's thought of providing cheap as possible medical equipment
07:19 < TMA> anyway I feel the topic is exhausted (for now at least)
07:23 < kanzure> "General plasmids for producing RNA in vitro transcripts with homogeneous ends, Expression of siRNA from a single transcript that includes multiple ribozymes in mammalian cells.General Acid-Base Catalysis in the Mechanism of a Hepatitis Delta Virus Ribozyme, etc. "
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07:40 < JayDugger> TMA, thank you for helping fund my dividends.
07:40 < JayDugger> (In principle, if not in fact.)
07:42 < TMA> JayDugger: you are welcome.
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08:29 < kanzure> http://hpluspedia.org/index.php?title=Main_Page
08:29 < kanzure> pfft all of the actual pieces of content are missing... http://hpluspedia.org/index.php?title=Accelerating_technology
08:29 < kanzure> it's just a bunch of links to hplusmagazine. awful.
08:33 < FourFire> Hmm, well I posted it to reddit, maybe that will do something
08:55 < kanzure> why?
08:55 < kanzure> hplusmagazine is one of the worst things ever; and why not diyhpl.us/wiki? heh
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08:58 < Aurelius_Work> kanzure : because most people like a bit more formatting and readability
09:02 < kanzure> nope, we tried that, that turns out to be false
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09:05 < kanzure> i think people just really like the interfaces they are trained on
09:05 < kanzure> they are trained on mediawiki and phpbb and that's it
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09:05 < nmz787_i> nickjohnson: I thought of you when I learned of this http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpls/abs_all.jsp?arnumber=1407591
09:05 < nmz787_i> .title
09:05 < yoleaux> IEEE Xplore Abstract - Integrated power supply frequency domain impedance meter (IFDIM)
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09:19 < nickjohnson> nmz787_i: Interesting
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09:20 < nickjohnson> Reminds me of the integrated impedance meter Analog sells
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09:21 < nmz787_i> yeah, doesn't that have a part number similar to the DDS chip you were using?
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09:23 < nickjohnson> I'm using AD9838
09:23 < nickjohnson> Accidentally typing in the wrong number brought up this interesting IC too: http://www.analog.com/en/products/rf-microwave/rf-power-detectors/non-rms-responding-detector/ad8313.html#product-overview
09:23 < nickjohnson> And this is impedance meter: http://www.analog.com/en/products/rf-microwave/direct-digital-synthesis-modulators/ad5933.html
09:24 < nmz787_i> yeah i've got that one
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09:24 < nickjohnson> on a breakout?
09:25 < nickjohnson> I've been tempted to build a meter based on it
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09:25 < nickjohnson> With some analog switches for different ranges, and an MCU and display that can print out figures for various equivalent circuits
09:25 < nmz787_i> nah just samples
09:26 < nickjohnson> ah
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09:28 < nmz787_i> lately I've not accomplished much electronics project-wise because I have been building a bigger workbench... and the garage is just getting colder and less welcoming (probably will buy a space heater, since I need to polyurethane the wood of the bench)
09:28 < nickjohnson> fair enough too
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10:05 < kanzure> "Most companies have 0.23$ to 0.36$ per bp atm.  Gen9 was 0.26$ last time we checked for bigger bricks (10kbp)."
10:05 < kanzure> "gBlocks from IDT are ~$0.15 /bp. They go up to 2kb, and I've had good luck with them."
10:05 < kanzure> "The Life Technologies (now Thermo-Fisher) has there GeneArt Gene Strings that compete with gBlocks in either speed, size, or price. I use them exclusively and work well. You will need a non-residential address (business or industrial) else they will not ship"
10:05 < kanzure> "Only if you synthesize 1000bp. For example, if you synthesize 500bp, its $0.18 /bp"
10:05 < kanzure> (for idt gblocks)
10:18 < kanzure> "Post-human mathematics" http://arxiv.org/abs/1308.4678 "Present day mathematics is a human construct, where computers are used more and more but do not play a creative role. This situation may change however: computers may become creative, and since they function very differently from the human brain they may produce a very different sort of mathematics. We discuss what this post-human mathematics may look like, and the philosophical ...
10:18 < kanzure> ... consequences that this may entail."
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10:18 < kanzure> and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10615390
10:20 < kanzure> oh, nevermind i guess. once again the comments are better. bleh.
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11:44 < kanzure> when i am done with the log reading, textmass heatmap graph should be changed to show individual signal-noise ratios and scores for conversations.
11:58 < kanzure> ouch my polymerases
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14:41 < nmz787_i> neuroplatypus might be an interesting internet handle
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17:30 < andares> So I've started looking at vocal folds and osteoblasts. Both of these grow (like everything else) but dimorphically during puberty
17:32 < andares> Just switching the androgen receptor off won't change anything. Sure, there's E.g. some osteoporosis if you turn off all sex hormones, but there's no remodeling
17:32 < andares> So it seems like a lost cause to try to find a genetic solution to remodeling tissue distribution in general
17:33 < andares> But aren't parts of the body (E.g. vestigial tails) absorbed during fetal development? Maybe there is some way
17:45 < andares> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone_remodeling
17:45 < andares> D'oh
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