--- Log opened Mon Dec 07 00:00:30 2015 00:02 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:16 -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@37.218.185.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:51 -!- zadock [~outsider@cthulhu.tuiasi.ro] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:51 -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@37.218.175.113] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:05 -!- zadock [~outsider@cthulhu.tuiasi.ro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:31 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:32 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:38 -!- superJenElizabet [~jenelizab@cpc76802-brmb10-2-0-cust399.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:47 -!- Viper168_ is now known as Viper168 01:48 < archels> a friend pointed me to this radio show http://podbay.fm/show/831100527 01:48 < archels> definitely one of the more bizarre things I've heard in my life 02:10 -!- poppingtonic1 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:11 -!- poppingtonic [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14 -!- poppingtonic [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:14 -!- poppingtonic1 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:26 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@198.58.124.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:27 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:29 < poppingtonic> nice show! I listened to "Listen Fear" 02:29 < poppingtonic> sorry... "This Fear" 02:34 -!- atomical [~atomical@li669-27.members.linode.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:37 -!- atomical [~atomical@li669-27.members.linode.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 02:50 -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:58 -!- wrldpc1 [~ben@bai859b91ac.bai.ne.jp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:58 -!- wrldpc1_ [~ben@bai859b91ac.bai.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:12 -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 03:13 -!- atomical [~atomical@li669-27.members.linode.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:47 -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-khtjrdqhxaikvlrj] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 04:08 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:11 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:18 -!- fleshtheworld [~fleshthew@108-240-244-194.lightspeed.frsnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:18 < wrldpc1> So I started a podcast. 04:19 < wrldpc1> .site www.getbusypodcast.com 04:19 < wrldpc1> eh 04:19 < wrldpc1> .url getbusypodcast.com 04:19 < wrldpc1> god damn it, I forgot the commands. 04:19 < archels> .title 04:19 < yoleaux> Get Busy Podcast 04:19 < archels> informative. 04:23 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:26 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:32 -!- QuadIngi [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:45 -!- c0rw|zZz_ [~c0rw1n@137.181-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:48 -!- c0rw|zZz [~c0rw1n@137.181-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:52 -!- c0rw|zZz [~c0rw1n@137.181-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:55 -!- c0rw|zZz_ [~c0rw1n@137.181-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:35 -!- drewbot 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joined ##hplusroadmap 06:34 -!- maaku is now known as Guest35069 06:37 -!- c0rw|zZz_ [~c0rw1n@48.129-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:37 -!- c0rw|zZz [~c0rw1n@137.181-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:40 -!- c0rw|zZz [~c0rw1n@91.176.115.20] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:43 -!- c0rw|zZz_ [~c0rw1n@48.129-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:52 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=fd365210 Bryan Bishop: some prior work on validation cost metric >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/hong-kong/validation-cost-metric/ 06:54 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:05 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:12 -!- btcdrak [uid115429@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-imkciojtlmbbmjjp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:12 -!- btcdrak [uid115429@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vqyqhnvddknqgsyy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:17 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@ese227.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:34 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:34 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:37 -!- Viper168_ is now known as Viper168 07:43 -!- QuadIngi [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:02 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@li669-27.members.linode.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:05 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-49-241-192.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:06 -!- atomical [~atomical@li669-27.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:08 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=7f3884dc Bryan Bishop: add link to segregated witness video >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/hong-kong/segregated-witness-and-its-impact-on-scalability/ 08:14 -!- Filosofem is now known as Jawmare 08:18 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=1b0848f8 Bryan Bishop: include link to correction about the graph >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/hong-kong/overview-of-bips-necessary-for-lightning/ 08:36 < kanzure> "I plan to try this out sometime this week, OCCT seems to have a fair amount of trouble making an ordinary pipe tee (tangent faces). Even with some help (making the branch cylinder slightly smaller), it still has trouble." 08:36 < kanzure> (on oce-dev mailing list) 08:43 -!- poppingtonic [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:43 < xentrac> hmm, I don't know about oce-dev 08:50 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ojpiwbijrucmjlpv] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 08:50 < kanzure> ParahSailin: https://scalingbitcoin.org/chinese-terms#terms 08:50 < kanzure> xentrac: oce-dev is opencascade community edition dev mailing list. tpaviot/jelle and friends. 08:51 < kanzure> xentrac: https://github.com/tpaviot/oce 09:01 < xentrac> cool 09:03 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=2f29d443 Bryan Bishop: include link to other segwit explanation >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/hong-kong/segregated-witness-and-its-impact-on-scalability/ 09:03 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=d5cd3df2 Bryan Bishop: update links inside most hong kong talks >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/hong-kong/zero-knowledge-proofs-for-bitcoin-scalability-and-beyond/ 09:05 -!- Guest35069 is now known as maaku 09:09 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=89371e96 Bryan Bishop: include link to bip105 in flexcap talk >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/hong-kong/a-flexible-limit-trading-subsidy-for-larger-blocks/ 09:10 < xentrac> (and here I am doing parametric laser-cut design in raw PostScript like a troglodyte) 09:10 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-uyucvefgghrejptp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:10 < kanzure> xentrac: opencascade has its own problems... here are my notes: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cad/opencascade 09:12 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-49-241-192.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:13 < xentrac> the Pname/Tname thing sounds eerily like Symbian C++ convetnions 09:14 < xentrac> those are some extensive notes. they could benefit from a table of contents and overview paragraph 09:18 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-uyucvefgghrejptp] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:19 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=67e6607b Bryan Bishop: simplified explanation of segregated witness by sipa >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/hong-kong/segregated-witness-and-its-impact-on-scalability/ 09:23 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@ese227.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:30 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-asvrvnuwxfnnxcsy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:33 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@ese227.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:42 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=d9ee34d9 Bryan Bishop: even more segwit follow-up >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/hong-kong/segregated-witness-and-its-impact-on-scalability/ 09:50 -!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-155-69.client.mchsi.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:56 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=852dbcf4 Bryan Bishop: make LN bootstrapping comment more explicit >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/hong-kong/network-topologies-and-their-scalability-implications-on-decentralized-off-chain-networks/ 09:56 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=eb76efd2 Bryan Bishop: make LN data requirements more explicit >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/hong-kong/overview-of-bips-necessary-for-lightning/ 09:56 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=c5521072 Bryan Bishop: include libsnark.org link >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/hong-kong/zero-knowledge-proofs-for-bitcoin-scalability-and-beyond/ 09:58 -!- neurodata [~neurodata@c-98-255-193-242.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:03 -!- |node [uid125132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bxnwubnukjfbxltr] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:06 -!- btcdrak [uid115429@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vqyqhnvddknqgsyy] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 10:15 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=74086403 Bryan Bishop: include link to flexcap source code >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/hong-kong/a-flexible-limit-trading-subsidy-for-larger-blocks/ 10:33 -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@37.218.175.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:49 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=8e744f21 Bryan Bishop: add link about transaction fee estimation >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/hong-kong/a-bevy-of-block-size-proposals-bip100-bip102-and-more/ 11:00 -!- btcdrak [uid115429@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-znhkgnxspebohoix] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:06 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=a153a09e Bryan Bishop: segwit link for lightning talk >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/hong-kong/overview-of-bips-necessary-for-lightning/ 11:19 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=8dd474d0 Bryan Bishop: include link to jgarzik video >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/hong-kong/a-bevy-of-block-size-proposals-bip100-bip102-and-more/ 11:27 -!- QuadIngi [FourFire@2a02:ed06:3:0:a98f:df33:9987:a1d2] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:35 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-asvrvnuwxfnnxcsy] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:38 -!- QuadIngi [FourFire@2a02:ed06:3:0:a98f:df33:9987:a1d2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:40 < kanzure> i wonder if there is a genetic basis to adult onset temporal acceleration, and whether that could be fixed. 11:41 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:51 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-24-172-24.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:53 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tzmuyymfymwnodut] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:53 < docl> http://server-sky.com/Orycon2015 11:56 < eudoxia> "50 AU Stapledon Dyson Shell made of Kuiper Belt Ice" now that's how you get my attention 12:00 -!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-155-69.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:06 < eudoxia> nice http://slides.server-sky.com/StadyOr2015/stadysupernova_D_intro.html 12:08 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-mnozadjxcdergtkd] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:08 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@ese227.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:09 < eudoxia> now, this is a bit hopeful http://slides.server-sky.com/StadyOr2015/StadyFind_D_Observables.html 12:09 < eudoxia> there are, what, 600-800 stars in 32ly radius? 12:10 < eudoxia> 10 of them can't possibly be dyson spheres 12:13 -!- fleshtheworld [~fleshthew@2602:306:cf0f:4c20:c2a:b4a8:6a1d:ee10] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:14 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@ese227.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:35 < xentrac> because we would have noticed already? 12:36 < eudoxia> not necessarily 12:36 < eudoxia> just because it's too high a number 12:36 < xentrac> presumably soon all 600–800 of them will have dyson spheres 12:41 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=3f26a39a fivepiece: Change Meni's surname from Rosenbaum to Rosenfeld >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/hong-kong/a-bevy-of-block-size-proposals-bip100-bip102-and-more/ 12:41 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=514cfba2 Bryan Bishop: Merge pull request #3 from fivepiece/master >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/ 12:41 < docl> I'm doubtful that there are any dyson spheres in our past light cone so far. Otherwise we'd have been eaten already. 12:41 < kanzure> dyson spheres aren't about eating everything in the universe 12:42 < kanzure> docl: you might be interested in this one, http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/physics/astrophysics/Starivore%20extraterrestrials%20-%20Interacting%20binary%20stars%20as%20macroscopic%20metabolic%20systems%20-%20Clement%20Vidal.pdf 12:42 < kanzure> xentrac: you might also be interested in that one 12:43 -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:43 < eudoxia> it might turn out that for most posthumans, once you've dyson-sphered a star, you have the means but not really the desire to leave the system 12:43 < kanzure> what happened to just computing in neutron dust on the edge of a black hole or whatever. 12:44 < kanzure> also, whatever happened to the guy in here that wanted to convert everything in the visible universe into computronium? do we still have him? 12:44 < Aurelius_Work2> I can't remember. I might have discussed that idea. 12:44 < kanzure> that was you? huh. 12:44 < Aurelius_Work2> It's an idea 12:45 < Aurelius_Work2> I assume I'm not smart enough to decide whether or not it's a -good- idea 12:45 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@li669-27.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47 < eudoxia> you gotta hurry up, every second we waste the local cluster gets further and further from everything else 12:48 < kanzure> yeah, the light sphere is dissipating at a rate of a few million cubic lightyears per second or something 12:54 < xentrac> eudoxia: maybe that's possible through a sort of Fermi paradox 12:55 < eudoxia> xentrac: well, one of the solutions to the fermi paradox is the "everyone gets really into VR" scenario 12:55 < xentrac> that seems like a vanishingly unlikely solution 12:55 < eudoxia> or, a different statement: the species that produce technological civilizations are gregarious 12:56 < kanzure> the alternative civilizations could be looking right at us, hidden in background star field, fucking up our understanding of astrophysics 12:56 < xentrac> if you have a trillion technological civilizations and only one out of a billion is expansionist, that's still a thousand civilizations that reach Kardashev Type 2, or compete with another one to do so 12:56 < kanzure> (someone refuted this point a while back on hacker news, but i don't remember if the refutation was good) 12:57 < kanzure> ah, here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10252222 12:57 < xentrac> I could believe that only one out of a hundred or only one out of a thousand civilizations avoid "everyone gets really into VR" 12:57 < xentrac> but zero? 12:58 < xentrac> that's only plausible if the total number of civilizations is close to one 12:58 < eudoxia> well, consider that all of them develop WBE and move on to live in computers 12:58 < kanzure> have you read "xenology"? http://www.xenology.info/Xeno.htm 12:58 < eudoxia> then computers get up to the theoretical limit, and a 10-year trip on a relativistic rocket becomes a 10000 year epic of sitting, alone, on a very limited computer 12:59 < eudoxia> i have not (i should get around to reading AASM) 12:59 < xentrac> I haven't, although of course I've been influenced by Freitas's ideas :) 13:00 < xentrac> sure, if you have a persistent personal identity then you have to choose between hanging out in your happy dyson sphere and riding the rocket 13:00 < xentrac> but you don't, so you can do both 13:01 < xentrac> if you have the tech 13:01 < kanzure> two-phase commit is better identity met-- hm. actually i have no idea. i sort of reject the notion that there is localized consensus in human brain matter. 13:04 < TMA> the selection pressure in organisms is mostly interspecies competition for resources; unless there is advantage in interstellar travel they might be just busy infighting 13:07 < xentrac> well, the advantage in interstellar travel is that the resources you reach aren't being competed for yet 13:07 < xentrac> nmz787_: you decided BRL-CAD is more useful than FreeCAD? 13:08 < TMA> xentrac: the disadvantages are that for any time you leave the resources would be occupied by others leaving later on a faster ship by the time you get there 13:08 < xentrac> I guess that's sort of a dumb question in that BRL-CAD has been in production use for decades and so it is clearly useful for some things 13:08 < kanzure> freecad is okay as long as you save every few minutes because opencascade crashyness.... 13:09 < xentrac> TMA: that's possible, but if one or more group gets there, then one of them got there first 13:09 < kanzure> and as long as you don't mind the long-term non-maintainability of freecad (due to opencascade) (not saying juergen's work is bad or anything; he just has poor tools to work from.) 13:11 < TMA> xentrac: the point is there is a strong deflationary pressure -- at every time T it is better to wait for a little while more 13:12 < xentrac> yes, and by that logic buying a computer any time from 1965 to 2015 was a terrible idea 13:12 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-mnozadjxcdergtkd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:12 < xentrac> (although of course it doesn't inherently have the competition aspect to it) 13:13 < TMA> and the other difference is that our lifespan is still not indefinite 13:14 < TMA> so there are other incentives to put off putting off 13:14 < xentrac> I don't think a race of immortals considering buying computers from 1965 to 2015 would have been well-served to wait the 50 years until Moore's Law ended either 13:14 < xentrac> even if they were competing to crack a Bitcoin key first or something 13:16 < kanzure> amusing to think best use of computing resources, to crack a private key, is actually not grinding immediately in 1965, but rather reserving time for cpu design simulation stuff and analysis and study 13:18 < kanzure> xentrac: btw you might be interested in extensive testing used during development of libsecp256k1 http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/gmaxwell-2015-11-09-mining-and-block-size-etc/ 13:19 < TMA> and there is the second option to staying home -- to be forever on the move at relativistic speeds, never actually stopping anywhere 13:21 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-ytxfqxacihwounnr] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:22 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:23 < xentrac> kanzure: yes, buying in 1965 is probably also not the optimal strategy :) 13:23 -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:23 < xentrac> yeah, clearly the strategy that brings the largest amount of energy under your control is to expand your sphere of influence as close to lightspeed as you can make it 13:24 < xentrac> sustainably 13:24 < drethelin> why would you want the largest amount of energy 13:24 -!- atomical [~atomical@m955036d0.tmodns.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:24 < drethelin> what for 13:24 < docl> Well, we don't know how to make very good computronium yet. The resource level needed to crack machine-phase nanotech is probably substantial. So we should focus on clanking replicators for now. 13:25 < kanzure> proteins are nanotech 13:26 < docl> Yes they are, but they aren't machine phase. They are twisty polymers in a solution of warm water. 13:26 < docl> Very chaotic and non design friendly. 13:26 -!- atomica__ [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:27 < eudoxia> unless someone makes an artificial ribosome that can crank out fullerene or diamond, i don't think proteins will be an enabler to MNT/DMS 13:27 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:30 -!- atomical [~atomical@m955036d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:37 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:40 < xentrac> drethelin: everything good costs energy 13:40 -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-glgysdpmmluwujwg] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:42 < kanzure> there are far more proteins outside of water than-- well, nevermind. the ocean is pretty huge. 13:45 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:55 -!- juul1 is now known as juul 13:59 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tzmuyymfymwnodut] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 14:03 < nmz787_i> xentrac: I thought BRL-CAD was the only tool up to the job, with as you said all its years of production use... I am working on MEMS so the dynamic range and math errors (or lack thereof) were of great importance to me in my selection process 14:09 < nmz787_i> eudoxia: what is MNT/DMS? 14:09 < nmz787_i> .wik MNT 14:09 < yoleaux> "Disambiguation: MNT" — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MNT 14:09 < nmz787_i> .wik DMS 14:09 < yoleaux> "Disambiguation: DMS" — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMS 14:10 < eudoxia> .wik Molecular Nanotechnology 14:10 < yoleaux> "Molecular nanotechnology (MNT) is a technology based on the ability to build structures to complex, atomic specifications by means of mechanosynthesis. This is distinct from nanoscale materials." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_Nanotechnology 14:10 < eudoxia> .wik Diamond Mechanosynthesis 14:10 < yoleaux> "Mechanosynthesis is a term for hypothetical chemical syntheses in which reaction outcomes are determined by the use of mechanical constraints to direct reactive molecules to specific molecular sites. There are presently no chemical syntheses which achieve this aim. Some atomic placement has been achieved with scanning tunnelling microscopes." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanosynthesis 14:10 < nmz787_i> ah, ok 14:10 < kanzure> nmz787_i: see https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer 14:11 < nmz787_i> kanzure: no new commits in a while 14:13 < docl> "There are presently no chemical syntheses which achieve this aim." Sounds like something David Gerard would say. Is it true? 14:13 < kanzure> yea a lot of cleanup requirement 14:13 < kanzure> refactoring etc 14:13 < eudoxia> "no chemical syntheses" is a weird of phrasing it 14:13 < nmz787_i> anyone in here gonna try the latest room temp diamond synthesis? 14:13 < eudoxia> i mean, it has been demonstrated in the lab 14:13 < nmz787_i> I think the main thing needed was a pulsed laser 14:14 < eudoxia> kanzure: have you thought about replacing the chroot thing with a Dockerfile 14:15 < kanzure> nope haven't thought about that. i wouldn't mind including some dockerfile instructions. also, the lazy way is to put a chroot into a docker container..... 14:16 < kanzure> gmaxwell comments on bitcoin scalability proposals http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-December/011865.html 14:17 < nmz787_i> bitcoin isn't scalable as-is? 14:17 < kanzure> it's bandwidth-constrained 14:17 < kanzure> every node has to validate every transaction 14:17 < kanzure> if node has limited bandwidth, and network goes beyond that, then node gets kicked off and oops can't use bitcoin 14:34 < docl> eudoxia: How has it been demonstrated in the lab? In-silico and AFM only, or is there another type of mechanosynthesis? Should CVD of graphene and that sort of thing count? 14:35 < eudoxia> let me dig it up 14:35 < eudoxia> Oyabu et al. http://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.90.176102 14:35 < eudoxia> that was AFM and in silico, yeah 14:36 < eudoxia> CVD doesn't count since it relies on the probabilistic behaviour of gas rather than direct mechanical force 14:36 < eudoxia> patterned atomic layer epitaxy, which is what Zyvex is working on, is atomically precise and works on silicon but isn't mechanosynthesis 14:44 < nmz787_i> so I thought in-silico referred to a computational environment where testing/experimentation had taken place... but here it seems you two are referrring to it happening 'with silicon' 14:46 < docl> nmz787_i: I meant "in computation" 14:46 < eudoxia> oh, my mistake, yeah 14:47 < eudoxia> i forgot 'in silico' meant 'in a simulation' 14:47 < eudoxia> Oyabu et al. was an AFM on a silicon surface 14:48 < docl> :) 14:51 < eudoxia> it would be nice to have proof on a diamond surface 14:51 < eudoxia> not necessarily of any of the reactions on the minimal toolset, just smash a silicon tip and see what happens 14:51 < nmz787_i> eudoxia: well to be honest, now I'm wondering if that's correct 14:52 < eudoxia> nmz787_: what part 14:53 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:57 -!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-155-69.client.mchsi.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:58 < kanzure> i wrote a thing in reply to 011865 http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-December/011866.html 14:59 < nmz787_i> eudoxia: is in-silico supposed to mean 'interacting with silicon' or does it mean 'in computation' 14:59 < eudoxia> in computation 14:59 < eudoxia> .wik In silico 14:59 < yoleaux> "In silico (literally Latin for "in silicon", alluding to the mass use of silicon for semiconductor computer chips) is an expression used to mean "performed on computer or via computer simulation." The phrase was coined in 1989 as an allusion to the Latin phrases in vivo, in vitro, and in situ, which are commonly used in biology (see also …" — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_silico 14:59 < eudoxia> .botsnack 14:59 < yoleaux> :D 14:59 < nmz787_i> what happens when CPUs stop being silicon 15:00 < eudoxia> a moment 15:00 < kanzure> they will always include a single atom of silicon so that our previous terminology will hold 15:00 < eudoxia> .tr English Latin diamond 15:00 < yoleaux> English Latin diamond (en → en) 15:00 < nmz787_i> kanzure: makes sense 15:00 < eudoxia> .tr :en :la diamond 15:00 < yoleaux> adamas (en → la) 15:00 < eudoxia> 'in adamas' there you go 15:00 < nmz787_i> .tr English Latin computation 15:00 < yoleaux> English Latin computation (en → en) 15:01 < eudoxia> .tr :en :la computer 15:01 < yoleaux> computatrum (en → la) 15:01 < eudoxia> .tr :en :la to calculate 15:01 < yoleaux> computare (en → la) 15:01 < eudoxia> hmmm 15:01 -!- jenelizabeth_ [~jenelizab@cpc76802-brmb10-2-0-cust399.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:03 < docl> Patterned layer apataxy looks pretty cool though. http://www.zyvexlabs.com/Research/files/Owen_JVSTB_2011.pdf 15:06 -!- jenelizabeth [~jenelizab@cpc76802-brmb10-2-0-cust399.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:06 < kanzure> these guys claim to be a low-price diybio-friendly reagent vendor http://www.aasinc.co/ 15:08 < eudoxia> went to see what Zyvex was up to and saw this video from this year http://www.jove.com/video/52900/atomically-traceable-nanostructure-fabrication 15:08 < eudoxia> well, not all of it because paywalls and sci-hub didn't help 15:09 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rygrvfhdurygsprv] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:09 -!- atomica__ [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:09 < TMA> eudoxia: in adamanto. 15:09 < eudoxia> that's better 15:10 -!- atomical [~atomical@li669-27.members.linode.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:11 < TMA> it is a greek word originally, so the declension is somewhat peculiar 15:12 < TMA> ;) 15:13 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@li669-27.members.linode.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:18 -!- atomical [~atomical@li669-27.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:19 -!- pompolic [~A@unaffiliated/pompolic] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:22 -!- midnightmagic [~midnightm@unaffiliated/midnightmagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:26 -!- pompolic [~A@unaffiliated/pompolic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:37 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-24-172-24.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:57 -!- jaboja64 [~jaboja@erw74.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:01 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@ese227.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:04 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:07 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@li669-27.members.linode.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 16:08 -!- atomical [~atomical@li669-27.members.linode.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:19 -!- abetusk [~abe@c-98-216-104-129.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:19 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:25 < nmz787_i> .tr latin english adamanto 16:25 < yoleaux> latin english adamanto (en → en) 16:25 < nmz787_i> .tr latin : english adamanto 16:26 < nmz787_i> .tr: latin:english adamanto 16:27 < docl> It is now possible to 3d-print fiberoptic preforms. http://3dprintingindustry.com/2015/08/06/first-3d-printed-fiber-optics-created-by-university-of-sydney-researchers-with-desktop-3d-printer/ 16:27 < nmz787_i> TMA: translate says 'adamanto' in greek means 'sparkler', and in latin means 'steel' 16:30 -!- midnightmagic [~midnightm@unaffiliated/midnightmagic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:32 -!- nickjohnson [sid789@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ldziacqxbwavdurm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37 -!- nickjohnson [sid789@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nkgeovketbdrlzwb] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:41 -!- Aurelius_Work2 [~cpopell@209.48.69.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:41 < docl> I wonder if it will ever be possible to print fiber optics directly without need of a drawing tower? 16:42 < nmz787_i> docl: that article is confusing 16:42 < nmz787_i> so they print some tubular structure, then melt that and pull it? 16:43 < nmz787_i> and what they pull is the fiber? 16:43 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:43 -!- nmz787_ [~nmz787@unaffiliated/nmz787] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:43 < nmz787_i> that seems like it could still be error prone, like if the printed thing had a bubble, the bubble would just get drawn out too 16:44 < docl> Yeah, they are basically just making a big fat version of the fiber optic that gets stretched to make the real thing. 16:45 < nmz787_i> oh, hmm, that doesn't seem that interesting 16:45 < nmz787_i> or rather, less impressive 16:45 < docl> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1DRrAhQJtM 16:46 -!- atomical [~atomical@li669-27.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:48 < docl> The standard way is to use a big fat tube. This seems like a big advance (but less than printing them directly would be). 16:49 -!- Aurelius_Work [~cpopell@209.48.69.2] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:50 < docl> Hypothetically, seems like you could use a system that melts layers of purified glass powder onto a block, with ion implanters that pass over and create doped regions. 16:51 -!- nmz787 [~nmz787@unaffiliated/nmz787] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:51 < nmz787_i> doping for refractive index adjustment? 16:53 < docl> yeah 17:17 -!- Act [uid89656@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wkxxowczanhvifju] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:17 -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-glgysdpmmluwujwg] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:25 -!- gnusha [~gnusha@bryan.fairlystable.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:25 -!- Topic for ##hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | sponsored by lobsters everywhere, banned by the Federal Death Administration (5 times) | this channel is LOGGED: http://gnusha.org/logs | http://diyhpl.us/wiki | "ray kurzweil is a pessimist" - george church 17:25 -!- Topic set by kanzure [~kanzure@unaffiliated/kanzure] [Wed May 20 12:46:25 2015] 17:25 [Users ##hplusroadmap] 17:25 [ altersid ] [ Burninate ] [ GarethTheGreat] [ juul ] [ pompolic ] [ the8thbit] 17:25 [ AmbulatoryCortex] [ c0rw|zZz ] [ gnusha ] [ kanzure ] [ poohbear ] [ thundara ] 17:25 [ amiller ] [ catern ] [ Guest16498 ] [ m0b ] [ proofoflogic] [ TMA ] 17:25 [ andytoshi ] [ cluckj ] [ heath ] [ maaku ] [ rancyd ] [ Urchin ] 17:25 [ archels ] [ crescendo ] [ helleshin ] [ Madars ] [ redlegion ] [ vikraman ] 17:25 [ atomical_ ] [ Daeken ] [ HEx1 ] [ mf1008 ] [ saurik_ ] [ wrldpc1 ] 17:25 [ augur ] [ docl ] [ iDavid ] [ midnightmagic ] [ sivoais ] [ xentrac ] 17:25 [ Aurelius_Home ] [ Douhet ] [ indiebio ] [ neurodata ] [ smeaaagle ] [ xrr ] 17:25 [ Aurelius_Work ] [ drethelin ] [ jaboja64 ] [ nickjohnson ] [ souljack ] [ yoleaux ] 17:25 [ Bakkot ] [ drewbot ] [ Jawmare ] [ night ] [ strages ] [ yorick ] 17:25 [ balrog ] [ dustinm ] [ JayDugger ] [ nmz787 ] [ strangewarp ] [ {dpk} ] 17:25 [ berndj ] [ EnabrinTain ] [ jdqx_ ] [ nmz787_i ] [ streety ] [ |node ] 17:25 [ bjonnh ] [ erasei ] [ jenelizabeth ] [ nsh ] [ Stskeeps ] 17:25 [ bkero ] [ fenn ] [ jrayhawk ] [ ParahSailin ] [ superkuh ] 17:25 [ BobaMa ] [ fleshtheworld] [ juri_ ] [ pasky_ ] [ Taek42 ] 17:25 [ btcdrak ] [ FourFire ] [ justinzero ] [ PatrickRobotham] [ TeMPOraL ] 17:25 -!- Irssi: ##hplusroadmap: Total of 92 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 92 normal] 17:25 -!- Channel ##hplusroadmap created Thu Feb 25 23:40:30 2010 17:25 -!- Irssi: Join to ##hplusroadmap was synced in 7 secs 17:28 -!- jaboja64 [~jaboja@erw74.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:29 -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wngnrnqqtvzjmqet] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:50 < docl> https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/User:Danielravennest/papers/Mars21 17:56 < kanzure> some sort of debate between aubrey de grey and some other people about regenerative anti-aging magic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVnn2bcFcnU 17:57 < kanzure> while i was watching this (jumping around a bit) i noticed at 11min 30sec there seems to be someone familiar in the audience (anders sandberg??) 17:57 < kanzure> fourfire confirms that this is anders, and plus this seemed to have taken place at oxford, so seems likely to be anders.... as random as it may be. 17:59 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 17:59 < kanzure> well, i suppose it's not impossible to believe that anders would choose to attend this sort of event 17:59 < kanzure> if this was another sort of debate, then perhaps incredulity about anders sandberg showing up would be more appropriate 17:59 < kanzure> but anti-aging, aubrey (a good friend of his), plus oxford, i suppose that's enough to expect to see anders in the audience at least once. 18:00 < docl> The people who actually do stuff and have interesting opinions in H+ circles are a much smaller set than one would think. 18:01 < FourFire> archels? 18:01 < FourFire> no idea 18:02 < FourFire> where does Archels live? 18:02 < kanzure> docl: yes but that's not enough to expect to see anders in random pans over a large non-transhumanist audience 18:03 < docl> Yeah, the oxford connection is needed as well. 18:05 < kanzure> oh right, doesn't aubrey "live" near there too? when he's not traveling. is that right? i dunno. 18:12 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-ytxfqxacihwounnr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:15 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2602:306:35fa:d500:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:16 -!- jdqx_ is now known as jdqx 18:30 -!- fleshtheworld [~fleshthew@2602:306:cf0f:4c20:c2a:b4a8:6a1d:ee10] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:35 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:44 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-stbvvtobzmexemyb] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:45 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-stbvvtobzmexemyb] has quit [Client Quit] 18:49 < FourFire> kanzure, AI-Box, at all useful, or masturbatory sociopath/nerd-sniping ? 18:51 < kanzure> i haven't found a use for that stuff 18:52 < kanzure> i have never claimed that i have security that can tolerate threat models that include "magic silver bullets that are infinitely persuasive", so it's not much of a concern to me. 19:00 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:08 -!- neurodata [~neurodata@c-98-255-193-242.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10 -!- fleshtheworld [~fleshthew@2602:306:cf0f:4c20:a542:f8ae:d375:dc9b] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:14 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@erw74.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:24 -!- _andares [~foobar@2601:602:8f01:3150:9467:760c:f9ac:5130] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:39 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=e45de142 Bryan Bishop: add links to videos >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/hong-kong/why-miners-will-not-voluntarily-individually-produce-smaller-blocks/ 19:41 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@erw74.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:44 -!- _andares [~foobar@2601:602:8f01:3150:9467:760c:f9ac:5130] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:57 -!- wrldpc1_ [~ben@bai859b91ac.bai.ne.jp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:58 -!- wrldpc1 [~ben@bai859b91ac.bai.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:58 -!- wrldpc1_ is now known as wrldpc1 20:00 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rygrvfhdurygsprv] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20:03 -!- Urchin [~urchin@89.17.7.179] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:13 < FourFire> am I ranting hard enough in that other channel? 20:15 -!- wrldpc1_ [~ben@bai859b91ac.bai.ne.jp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:15 -!- wrldpc1 [~ben@bai859b91ac.bai.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:15 -!- wrldpc1_ is now known as wrldpc1 20:20 -!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-155-69.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:22 < kanzure> FourFire: i think you should spend more time looking at what works for other people vs what isn't working. pick good role models. 20:23 < FourFire> my workoholic boss and that amazingly productive guy who said he wished he was a layabout comic-book artist, and the dooers at the hackerspace are sort of my rolemodels, likewise you to some extent (which is why I query you from time to time) 20:24 < FourFire> whenever I meet a LWer who has their shit together or someone else in the same status class, i ask them things 20:25 < FourFire> Yes I can do better, but words are cheap, I should prove it to you. 20:25 < kanzure> you should uh.. consider the social circle you are drawing from. 20:25 < kanzure> er, expanding the circle 20:25 < kanzure> *consider expanding 20:26 < kanzure> hackerspaces are okay but you are sort of limited to whatever randoms happened to show up locally.... which may or may not be useful for understanding how other people make things work out for themselves. 20:37 -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wngnrnqqtvzjmqet] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 21:11 -!- |node [uid125132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bxnwubnukjfbxltr] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 21:11 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@pool-108-16-231-242.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:35 -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@37.218.175.113] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:44 -!- wrldpc1 [~ben@bai859b91ac.bai.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: wrldpc1] 22:06 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jpvloqwtsvvygdkk] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:08 < fenn> "Never stand directly beneath an alien craft hovering at low altitude. Never touch a landed craft." got it. 22:08 < drethelin> hah 22:20 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2602:306:35fa:d500:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:57 -!- Act [uid89656@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ikmaslriccvoqpsm] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:43 -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:55 -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bbebcsprianipsym] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Tue Dec 08 00:00:31 2015