--- Log opened Tue Dec 08 00:00:31 2015
00:02 -!- poppingtonic [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:30 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jpvloqwtsvvygdkk] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
00:31 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dubrjcozcxmghoac] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:31 -!- berndj [~berndj@azna.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
00:32 -!- jtimon [~quassel@182.239.66.206] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:37 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap
00:38 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
00:43 -!- Viper168_ is now known as Viper168
01:05 -!- poppingtonic1 [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:05 < TMA> nmz787: I have made a mistake :( it should end in -e not in -o ; https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/adamas https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BC%80%CE%B4%CE%AC%CE%BC%CE%B1%CF%82
01:06 -!- poppingtonic [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
01:06 -!- poppingtonic1 is now known as poppingtonic
01:08 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:15 -!- yoleaux [~yoleaux@xn--ht-1ia18f.nonceword.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
01:15 -!- {dpk} [~dpk@xn--ht-1ia18f.nonceword.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
01:21 -!- maaku [~quassel@botbot.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
01:23 -!- maaku [~quassel@botbot.xen.prgmr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:24 -!- maaku is now known as Guest53789
01:24 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:25 -!- jtimon [~quassel@182.239.66.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
01:25 -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
01:31 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:36 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:19 < nmz787> might be something interesting here http://3dem.ucsd.edu/software.shtm
02:21 < archels> I am not Anders Sandberg, guys
02:21 < archels> but thanks for entertaining the thought.
02:40 -!- justanot1eruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:41 -!- justanot1eruser is now known as justanotheruser
02:55 -!- dpk [~dpk@xn--ht-1ia18f.nonceword.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:04 -!- fleshtheworld [~fleshthew@2602:306:cf0f:4c20:a542:f8ae:d375:dc9b] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
03:04 -!- fleshtheworld- [~fleshthew@108-240-244-194.lightspeed.frsnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:12 -!- yoleaux [~yoleaux@xn--ht-1ia18f.nonceword.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:15 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
03:21 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:21 -!- vivi [~vivi@inhu.me] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:27 -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bbebcsprianipsym] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
03:44 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: austerity chic brand destruction]
03:49 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@erw74.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:53 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:58 -!- wrldpc1 [~ben@bai859b91ac.bai.ne.jp] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:12 -!- wrldpc1 [~ben@bai859b91ac.bai.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: wrldpc1]
05:09 -!- wrldpc1 [~ben@bai859b91ac.bai.ne.jp] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:16 -!- atomical [~atomical@li669-27.members.linode.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:23 -!- drewbot_ [~cinch@ec2-54-162-146-81.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
05:27 < atomical> hi
05:27 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-204-151-113.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
05:59 -!- wrldpc1 [~ben@bai859b91ac.bai.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: wrldpc1]
06:03 -!- wrldpc1 [~ben@bai859b91ac.bai.ne.jp] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:15 < JayDugger> Good morning.
06:23 < xentrac> 04:26 < kanzure> hackerspaces are okay but you are sort of limited to whatever randoms happened to show up locally.... which may or may not be useful for understanding how other people make things work out for
06:23 < xentrac> also you select for people who go to hackerspaces, which might narrow your pool pretty seriously
06:29 < poppingtonic> kanzure: but the alternative is...what? university labs?
06:33 < kanzure> to find well-adjusted functioning human adults? hell no
06:34 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
06:37 < fenn> there ain't no such animal
06:38 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:40 < atomical> normal is a setting on the washing machine
06:40 < kanzure> well-adjusted means not completely stressed out of their mind
06:41 < atomical> kanzure, do you have cancer?
06:41 < kanzure> you gave it to me
06:43 < fenn> arguments in favor of mind control
07:00 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:01 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-99-200.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:02 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:05 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-leyurryvcddzzuys] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:07 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@pool-108-16-231-242.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:11 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-99-200.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
07:21 < poppingtonic> .title http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21882902
07:21 < yoleaux> Metformin as a geroprotector. - PubMed - NCBI
07:24 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:25 < kanzure> fenn did you look at the giraffe cortex paper from the other day
07:27 < fenn> no, why should i care about giraffes
07:27 < fenn> i am currently failing at downloading that metformin review paper
07:28 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@50.247.130.97] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:30 -!- atomical [~atomical@li669-27.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
07:31 < archels> because looking at phylogeny can tell us a great deal about the design of the brain
07:32 < archels> .g Erich Jarvis
07:32 < yoleaux> http://jarvislab.net/
07:36 < fenn> but aren't giraffes somewhat impractical to study
07:37 < fenn> i mean why not horses
07:43 < kanzure> the group seems to do a lot of comparative neuroanatomy work
07:44 < kanzure> https://cashp.columbian.gwu.edu/laboratory-evolutionary-neuroscience-publications
07:45 < archels> fenn: we must study all the things
07:46 < fenn> i hate neuroanatomy
07:46 < fenn> also i am too busy cleaning up other peoples' messes at the moment to be reading about giraffe brains
07:47 < kanzure> you seemed to like the neurophysiology figure about chimpanzee human brain differences
07:48 < kanzure> if we take diffs between all the mammalian brains then we can better figure out why they are doing anything differently
07:59 < kanzure> also this group preserved a chimpanzee brain from a chimp that was good at computer interfacing tasks
08:38 -!- poppingtonic [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:43 -!- atomical [~atomical@50.247.130.97] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:46 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@50.247.130.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
08:48 -!- jaboja64 [~jaboja@esa233.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
08:49 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@erw74.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Disconnected by services]
08:49 -!- jaboja64 is now known as jaboja
08:53 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
09:09 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-leyurryvcddzzuys] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
09:10 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dubrjcozcxmghoac] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
09:15 -!- _hanhart [~hanhart@static.101.25.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:16 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:20 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qbdtlfzbcdlfbajr] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:27 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=a9bf59cc Bryan Bishop: more links for segregated witness >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/hong-kong/segregated-witness-and-its-impact-on-scalability/
09:27 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=807eaf95 Bryan Bishop: include more links in talks >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/hong-kong/security-assumptions/
09:31 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=5231e9ec Bryan Bishop: remove false attribution? >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/hong-kong/segregated-witness-and-its-impact-on-scalability/
09:32 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@134.134.137.75] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:42 -!- Guest53789 is now known as maaku
10:10 -!- atomical [~atomical@50.247.130.97] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
10:12 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-99-200.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:12 -!- atomical [~atomical@li669-27.members.linode.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:18 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esa233.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
10:22 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esa233.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:27 -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@37.218.175.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
10:35 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-99-200.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
10:40 < kanzure> webgl visualization of space debris http://rigb.org/christmas-lectures/how-to-survive-in-space/a-place-called-space/7-space-debris-visualisation
10:40 < kanzure> actual visualization http://www.rigb.org/docs/debris/
10:46 -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@37.218.184.120] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:52 < docl> With good lasers we could maybe convert those chunks of space debris into useful equipment (more lasers e.g.) and spread out from there throughout the solar system.
10:55 < kanzure> seems likely to become problem even for non-debris eventually
10:58 < docl> See Keith Lofstrom's server sky proposal for how to make smart thinsats that shepherd debris out of the way.
10:59 < kanzure> could also use "optical lift" somehow
11:00 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:01 < kanzure> ("conservation of electromagnetic helicity" or "conservation of orbital angular momentum")
11:01 < kanzure> "Optical pulling of airborne absorbing particles and smut spores over a meter-scale distance with negative photophoretic force" http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/journal/apl/106/17/10.1063/1.4919533
11:02 < docl> The fiber lasers we talked about a few days ago are a possible solution. They produce thrust by plasmifying the surface of whatever they hit. Keith L's server sky thinsats are supposed to work just based on solar light pressure (slowly over the course of weeks).
11:04 < docl> http://www.physics.uci.edu/tajima/Ebisuzakietal2015.pdf <- lasers for zapping space debris
11:05 < docl> http://server-sky.com/DecayDebris
11:05 < docl> Server sky will greatly reduce the space debris problem. Fully populated, server sky may someday place hundreds of billions of objects in space, but these objects will all be continuously controlled to high precision, precisely located to micrometers, and will be in a 6411 kilometer altitude near-circular equatorial orbit, devoid of other assets, far above low earth orbit, and out of the flight path of
11:06 < docl> launch vehicles aimed at higher orbits.
11:10 -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@37.218.184.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
11:20 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@50.247.130.97] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:23 -!- atomical [~atomical@li669-27.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
11:29 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qbdtlfzbcdlfbajr] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
11:58 -!- atomical_ [~atomical@50.247.130.97] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com]
11:59 -!- jaboja64 [~jaboja@esb23.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:03 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esa233.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
12:10 -!- atomical [~atomical@50.247.130.97] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:17 -!- |node [uid125132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fdkzkdskqknisxqk] has joined ##hplusroadmap
12:32 -!- c0rw|zZz is now known as c0rw1n
12:41 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
12:41 -!- bjonnh is now known as Cazeneuve
12:41 -!- drethelin [~drethelin@24-241-226-112.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
12:41 -!- Cazeneuve is now known as bjonnh
12:49 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:03 -!- drethelin [~drethelin@107-204-182-76.lightspeed.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:04 < drethelin> hi folks
13:06 < kanzure> sup
13:08 < drethelin> in a meeting
13:08 < drethelin> or about to be
13:08 < drethelin> got any hot tips on marketing transfection reagents?
13:09 < kanzure> who's the buyer?
13:09 < kanzure> (stereotype)
13:10 < drethelin> ideally the purchasing manager for a big institution but more likely individual researchers
13:14 < kanzure> http://www.foresight.org/roadmaps/Nanotech_Roadmap_2007_main.pdf http://www.foresight.org/roadmaps/Nanotech_Roadmap_2007_WG_Proc.pdf
13:14 < nmz787_i> say how its better, how its more cost-effective, how it saves trouble and increases peace of mind
13:15 < nmz787_i> talk about the value proposition of your product vs the others (or the lack of others)
13:16 < chris_99> get any further with finding a dip probe nmz787_i?
13:20 < kanzure> "quantum computing roadmapping project" http://qist.lanl.gov/pdfs/qc_roadmap.pdf http://qist.lanl.gov/qcomp_map.shtml
13:23 < kanzure> drethelin: get them in the funnel and keep 'em there, cast them away when they are obviously not gonna buy. otherwise keep sending them marketing content and offers and deals.
13:23 < kanzure> nmz787_i: that's not quite what i would recommend....
13:25 < kanzure> foresight institute recent spam includes a list of everyone working at foresight institute: Allison Duettmann, Christine Peterson, Chris Sapyta, Jim Lewis, Julia Bossmann, Max Sims, Miguel Aznar, Rob Meagley, Steve Burgess, Tad Hogg, Traci Parker
13:25 < nmz787_i> chris_99: nah, got an older price list from ocean optics... all were expensive
13:26 < nmz787_i> didn't actually spend more time looking since we last chatted
13:26 < nmz787_i> I might just hack something together with some TOSLINK cables
13:26 < chris_99> i got a quote from spectraconn for $700 :(
13:26 < nmz787_i> I think I already have a TOSlink splitter, so I'd just need to add some sort of mirror or diffuser I think
13:27 < nmz787_i> as long as whatever i'm testing doesn't matter if it gets contaminated
13:27 < nmz787_i> I went to a friends last week and he was doing some simple acid base color change reactions
13:27 < nmz787_i> and then tried it with an enzyme
13:27 < nmz787_i> so for that dipping something and rinsing it later with tap water should be fine
13:28 < nmz787_i> maybe I could even make something more like a nanodrop machine
13:28 < chris_99> cool
13:28 < nmz787_i> where you pipet a drop
13:28 < nmz787_i> onto some fibers that are almost touching
13:28 < nmz787_i> I was just playing with USGS elevation data last two nights
13:29 < nmz787_i> converted a friends farm area into an STL file
13:29 < chris_99> heh nice
13:29 < chris_99> apparently theres some lidar data for the whole of the UK iirc
13:30 < nmz787_i> ended up using this guide: http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/hidden/maps_to_3D.pdf
13:30 < nmz787_i> but I played with the data a bit in python using GDAL
13:30 < nmz787_i> didn't get too far, found a script that generated a 3 gigabyte file which crashed the 3D viewer programs :P
13:31 < chris_99> heh
13:32 < chris_99> i was speaking to someone about FM-CW laser distance measurement which seems interesting, where you sweep a laser over a range of frequencies and see how the reflected frequency differs from the frequency your transmitting
13:33 < nmz787_i> makes sense
13:33 < nmz787_i> doppler shift i guess?
13:35 < chris_99> afaik if both the emitter and reflecting object are static theres no doppler shift?
13:35 < nmz787_i> oh
13:35 < nmz787_i> not moving
13:35 < nmz787_i> hmm
13:35 < nmz787_i> distance not speed
13:35 < chris_99> http://www.radartutorial.eu/02.basics/Frequency%20Modulated%20Continuous%20Wave%20Radar.en.html explains it better than me
13:36 < drethelin> the wide end of the funnel is the problem right now kanzure
13:36 < drethelin> we're talking google ads and whatnot
13:36 < xentrac> nmz787_i: heh, DEM? that brings back memories
13:36 < drethelin> it's not a high traffic market in the first place
13:45 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-99-200.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
13:56 -!- atomical [~atomical@50.247.130.97] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
14:08 -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rwsticrnolurzjwv] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:15 -!- jaboja64 [~jaboja@esb23.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
14:15 < nmz787_i> xentrac: yeah, 'NED'
14:31 < nmz787_i> chris_99: ever read anything about heterodyning lasers? from what I know about heterodyning, you feed in two signals, and you get out the addition and subtraction of their frequencies... so my guess is if you shot in a red and blue laser, you'd get out something in NIR and also in the UV
14:32 < chris_99> nice :) it seems theres two ways to do FM-CW, one with a tunable laser, the other just by pulsing the laser itself
14:32 < chris_99> that sounds very like an RF mixer then also
14:33 < chris_99> same process apparently
14:34 < nmz787_i> .py "inp1=650; inp2=405; added = 299792458 / (299792458/(inp1) + 299792458/(inp2)); subtracted = 299792458 / (299792458/(inp1) + 299792458/(inp2)); print 'added: {} subtracted: {}'.format(added, subtracted)"
14:34 < yoleaux> 404 Not FoundError: Not Found
The requested URL /py/%22inp1%3D650%3B%20inp2%3D405%3B%20added%20%3D%20299792458%20%2F%20(299792458%2F(inp1)%20%2B%20299792458%2F(inp2))%3B%20subtracted%20%3D%20299792458%20%2F%20(299792458%2F(inp1)%20%2B%20299
14:34 < nmz787_i> .wa "inp1=650; inp2=405; added = 299792458 / (299792458/(inp1) + 299792458/(inp2)); subtracted = 299792458 / (299792458/(inp1) + 299792458/(inp2)); print 'added: {} subtracted: {}'.format(added, subtracted)"
14:34 < yoleaux> nmz787_i: Sorry, no result!
14:34 < nmz787_i> .py "inp1=650; inp2=405; added = 299792458 / (299792458/(inp1) + 299792458/(inp2)); subtracted = 299792458 / (299792458/(inp1) + 299792458/(inp2)); "
14:34 < yoleaux> 404 Not FoundError: Not Found
The requested URL /py/%22inp1%3D650%3B%20inp2%3D405%3B%20added%20%3D%20299792458%20%2F%20(299792458%2F(inp1)%20%2B%20299792458%2F(inp2))%3B%20subtracted%20%3D%20299792458%20%2F%20(299792458%2F(inp1)%20%2B%20299
14:34 < nmz787_i> .wa "inp1=650; inp2=405; added = 299792458 / (299792458/(inp1) + 299792458/(inp2)); subtracted = 299792458 / (299792458/(inp1) + 299792458/(inp2));"
14:34 < yoleaux> nmz787_i: Sorry, no result!
14:34 < nmz787_i> oh well
14:35 < chris_99> do you know anything about electronic mixers? i'm assuming you can filter the output to get just the difference?
14:35 < nmz787_i> that gives 249 and 1075 nm as outputs
14:35 < nmz787_i> not too much
14:35 < nmz787_i> took one history of radio class
14:43 < chris_99> http://www.opli.net/opli_magazine/imaging/2015/no-lens-no-problem-for-flatcam-rice-nov-news/ is intriguing
14:50 < bjonnh> yeah you can deconvolute from your mask position as your rays are not coming from the same angle according to their z position
14:51 < bjonnh> so if you have different masks, you can in theory get the picture at different focus planes
14:52 < bjonnh> but this is realy heavy on computation, you have artifacts
14:53 < chris_99> ah interesting!
14:54 < bjonnh> you will have stuff that look like interference fringe and so on
14:55 -!- drethelin [~drethelin@107-204-182-76.lightspeed.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
14:55 < bjonnh> and it will probably hate a scene which is not either uniformily lighted or lighted from behind
14:55 < bjonnh> will see
14:56 < bjonnh> see look at the paper
14:56 < bjonnh> it is like noise in the fourier space
14:57 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=
14:58 < eudoxia> oh no gnusha is fucked :(
15:03 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:25 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esb23.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:26 -!- eudoxia_ [~eudoxia@r179-25-240-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:30 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-99-200.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
15:31 < kanzure> https://soundcloud.com/darkarchitectsofficial/dark-architects-pres-blueprints-001
15:35 < nmz787_i> soundcloud is flash?
15:42 -!- eudoxia_ [~eudoxia@r179-25-240-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:53 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nhplxrnknjddjotv] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:04 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-240-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:16 -!- _0bitcount [~Big_Byte@82.159.56.94.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:18 -!- jdqx [~jdqx@108-201-65-149.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:19 -!- jdqx_ [~jdqx@2602:306:cc94:1950:f8bb:90c1:43e7:3b73] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:22 < _0bitcount> Singularity University deconstructed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYq5EVHXViM
16:23 -!- fenn [~fenn@unaffiliated/fenn] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:23 -!- fenn [~fenn@unaffiliated/fenn] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:23 -!- kanzure [~kanzure@bryan.fairlystable.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:24 -!- kanzure [~kanzure@bryan.fairlystable.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:32 -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@91.176.115.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
16:40 -!- Burninate [~Burn@pool-74-96-98-64.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:40 -!- Burninate [~Burn@pool-74-96-98-64.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:40 -!- Burninate [~Burn@pool-74-96-98-64.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:41 -!- Burninate [~Burn@pool-74-96-98-64.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:42 -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@169.203-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:43 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:43 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:45 -!- jtimon [~quassel@182.239.66.206] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:48 < jdqx_> http://www.wired.com/2015/12/bitcoins-creator-satoshi-nakamoto-is-probably-this-unknown-australian-genius/
16:49 < kanzure> no
16:50 < kanzure> gwern is lying
16:51 < docl> wow, gwern in wired.
16:51 < kanzure> gwern is so full of shit
16:51 < kanzure> 16:28 <@gwern> kanzure: the signed messages were all to wrong keys, is the problem. and it made things even harder to writeup. you know the editor didn't even want me to mention the blocksize controversy or nick szabo because we'd have to explain them to regular readers?
16:51 < kanzure> 16:28 < kanzure> huh? shouldn't [the journalists] mention it was the wrong key?
16:51 < kanzure> 16:29 <@gwern> kanzure: all the other satoshi keys were uploaded 2008/2009 as far as we could tell, but of course, the keyservers don't give you any unforgeable timestamps, so it's the same problem as the blog posts - only circumstantial evidence
16:51 < kanzure> 16:29 < kanzure> you're talking about the satoshin@vistomail.net key, and not the satoshi@vistomail.net key, right?
16:51 < kanzure> 16:30 <@gwern> kanzure: the non-bitcoin.org keys
16:51 < kanzure> 16:30 < kanzure> btw, satoshi nakamoto never signed anything [in public, using the bitcoin.org satoshi nakamoto key]
16:51 < kanzure> 16:30 <@gwern> sure, it points to wright being satoshi - but on the alternate theory that wright has been forging all this stuff as a hoax, he could have created the keys recently with backdated timestamps and uploaded them. since they don't offer any evidence one way or other and are hard to explain, they got cut
16:51 < kanzure> 16:43 < kanzure> 16:41 Existance of a pgp signature could be proved without revealing the message, only its hash.
16:52 < kanzure> 16:43 <@gwern> really? I didn't know that
16:52 < kanzure> 16:44 <@gwern> right. a signature is a signed hash, etc. I'd just never realized before, or needed to, prove possession of a signature rather than message
16:52 < kanzure> 16:43 < kanzure> are you willing
16:52 < kanzure> 16:44 <@gwern> hm. I guess that makes sense. you'd be verifying the signature part, not the hash
16:52 < kanzure> 16:45 <@gwern> I mean, I can pull out the signatures, sure, but as I said, because they're all to the non-bitcoin.org key and there is nothing verifiably timestamping the uploaded keys to 2008/2009, the signed hashes would prove little
16:52 < kanzure> 16:46 < kanzure> so the signed messages from your purported vistomail leak are not to the bitcoin.org claimed satoshi nakamoto key?
16:52 < kanzure> 16:46 <@gwern> no, I already explained as much
16:52 < kanzure> 16:46 < kanzure> were these the leaks that dumped out some mike hearn emails?
16:52 < kanzure> 16:46 <@gwern> nope
16:52 < kanzure> 16:46 <@gwern> this is a totally brand new set of leaks you have heard of solely through wired and gawker today, nothing whatsoever to do with earlier hacks
16:52 < kanzure> gwern deserves to be doxxed and left for dead
16:52 < kanzure> what a waste of everyone's time
16:57 < kanzure> 16:57 < kanzure> gwern: i suggest that in the future if you want wired.com publicity that you can achieve that without wasting everyone's time. don't be so quick to sacrifice your pseudonym's reputation nor the time and patience of your readers.
16:57 < kanzure> 16:55 could you check if pgp.mit.edu timestamps can be trivially forged?
16:57 < kanzure> 16:55 or do you happen to know?
16:57 < kanzure> 16:55 they can.
17:01 -!- _0bitcount [~Big_Byte@82.159.56.94.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:02 < nmz787_i> you kids and your byte-coin
17:04 < kanzure> bytecoin is the name of a bitcointalk.org user. he submitted some interesting proposals back in the day.
17:04 < kanzure> but then there was the cryptonote bytecoin thingy
17:04 < jdqx_> thx kanzure
17:26 < andytoshi> thx kanzure
17:27 -!- Act [uid89656@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ikmaslriccvoqpsm] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
17:28 < kanzure> i also posted this on reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3vzgnd/bitcoins_creator_satoshi_nakamoto_is_probably/cxsa9hs
17:34 -!- c0rw1n is now known as c0rw|zZz
17:38 < eudoxia> shame. he spent all those years building his reputation as a super smart internet person, and threw it all away on this unsubstantiated bullshit
17:39 < kanzure> "super smart internet person" who wants to grow up and be a journalist..... who buys that.
17:40 < kanzure> his time would be better spent in other directions
17:40 < eudoxia> yes, journalism is bad
17:41 < kanzure> this isn't widely known, mostly because the journalists refuse to publish it
17:45 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esb23.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
17:46 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:51 < Aurelius_Home> does he want to be a journalist?
17:52 -!- jtimon [~quassel@182.239.66.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
17:52 < kanzure> yes
18:09 -!- drethelin [~drethelin@24-241-226-112.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:14 < nmz787_i> qubitcoin is where everything is heading anyway
18:23 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2602:306:35fa:d500:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:34 < nmz787_i> hi yashgaroth
18:34 < nmz787_i> hows life?
18:34 -!- saurik_ [saurik@carrier.saurik.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
18:37 -!- jtimon [~quassel@182.239.66.206] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:38 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esb23.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:41 -!- saurik [saurik@carrier.saurik.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
18:47 < yashgaroth> not too bad nmz787_i, how bout yourself
18:49 < maaku> kanzure: this was not the first gwern satoshi brain fart
18:49 < maaku> I hope the journalist isn't someon I know
18:50 < kanzure> what was his other brain fart?
18:52 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
18:53 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:03 < bjonnh> http://googleresearch.blogspot.ca/2015/12/when-can-quantum-annealing-win.html
19:03 < bjonnh> ^
19:07 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-240-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:07 < night> what about it bjonnh?
19:08 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@134.134.137.75] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:09 < bjonnh> well it works
19:09 < bjonnh> and it start to be able to do some things
19:09 < bjonnh> still not wonderful nor accessible
19:11 < night> d-wave is quite the company
19:11 < night> been around for nearly 20 years, and only sold two machines
19:11 < night> basically toys
19:13 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@134.134.139.72] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:13 < nmz787_i> yashgaroth: busy, but decent
19:13 < bjonnh> well I'm not talking about business here
19:14 < night> it'll be nice when google's gate model project starts working
19:15 < night> annealing will never be able to do much
19:15 -!- Jawmare [~Jawmare@unaffiliated/jawmare] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:15 < night> comparatively
19:16 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@134.134.139.72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:18 < bjonnh> sure sure
19:18 < bjonnh> I just find that interesting that it start to show some usefulness
19:18 < bjonnh> like being able to spit something coherent
19:19 -!- Viper168_ is now known as Viper168
19:19 < bjonnh> that said we don't see the error rate
19:20 -!- Jawmare [~Jawmare@unaffiliated/jawmare] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:21 < night> right
19:24 -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@37.218.184.120] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:28 < bjonnh> hmm $10m…
19:28 < bjonnh> for the version one
19:34 -!- jdqx_ is now known as jdqx
19:39 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:46 -!- jdqx [~jdqx@2602:306:cc94:1950:f8bb:90c1:43e7:3b73] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20:01 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esb23.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:02 < jrayhawk> was the PGP thing previously a part of the article or something
20:02 < jrayhawk> it seems basically inconsequential
20:03 < jrayhawk> might be interesting to see if any of the long-running PGP keyservers have logs
20:05 < jrayhawk> cryptonomicon is pretty old, might ask jweiss@mit.edu if they have logs for it going back to 2009
20:06 < docl> https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/3w0lgy/cmv_technology_in_1980_was_sufficient_to_create/[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D
20:11 < kanzure> jrayhawk: that was the only strand of evidence they actually had. and then it turned out to be completely false.
20:12 < kanzure> i don't care about a journalist turning out to be an idiot- that happens all the time. this is about gwern self-destructing.
20:12 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-240-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:13 < eudoxia> good game, gwern. good game http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/dec/09/bitcoin-founder-craig-wrights-home-raided-by-australian-police
20:13 < jrayhawk> uh, well, they had a lot of strands of evidence, just none of it reliable, and I can't see where they put any weight on the PGP thing, just mentioned it as more weird circumstantial stuff
20:14 < jrayhawk> unless there was an earlier version of the article with more of that
20:15 < bjonnh> well if I were him, I would have hidden everything before anyway
20:15 < eudoxia> me, i would have rigged the house with ANFO
20:15 < bjonnh> hah
20:16 -!- jtimon [~quassel@182.239.66.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20:18 < JayDugger> What a mess...
20:19 < JayDugger> I thought today's kerfluffle would be a 5% rise in BTC/USD, but I checked that first.
20:20 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nhplxrnknjddjotv] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
20:34 < kanzure> "Guardian Australia understands the raids are not related to the claims that Wright may have been involved in the creation of bitcoin, but are related to an Australian Tax Office investigation."
20:34 < kanzure> someone is going to trigger a no knock raid and some innocent dude is going to get shot in the head
20:34 < kanzure> this is ridiculous
20:34 < kanzure> gwern is crossing the line here
20:37 < eudoxia> this has certainly got out of hand
20:46 -!- btcdrak [uid115429@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-znhkgnxspebohoix] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
20:46 < kanzure> he replied, i replied- https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3vzgnd/bitcoins_creator_satoshi_nakamoto_is_probably/cxsa9hs
20:51 < eudoxia> the drexler/smalley debate of the second decade of the 21st century
20:53 < fenn> wow this is such a clumsy hoax, how did gwern fall for it
20:57 < eudoxia> HN thread about this happening https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10701785
21:02 < bjonnh> who is gwern?
21:03 < kanzure> maru dubshinki
21:05 < eudoxia> isn't that a nym too http://ircbrowse.net/browse/haskell?id=10410388×tamp=1286037199#t1286037199
21:05 < kanzure> yea but remember his origin is from wikipedia, which is something gmaxwell has been watching for a very long time
21:06 < eudoxia> hmm
21:07 < kanzure> apparently his sister doxxed him once
21:07 < kanzure> to some wikipedians
21:09 < eudoxia> wow, doxxed by your own flesh and blood huh
21:09 < eudoxia> also kanzure gwern replied on reddit
21:10 < kanzure> "the raid was coming regardless of whether we published our article"
21:11 < kanzure> yea whatever i'm not going to reply. my comment stands.
21:13 < fenn> well. it's not MY fault that these leaked documents ended up in the australian government's hands, silly journalists, doxx are for kids
21:15 -!- berndj [~berndj@196-210-13-252.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:16 < kanzure> in other events; https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3vt62n/gavin_andresen_explains_why_he_prefers_bip_101/cxsccfo
21:20 -!- namespace [~user@184.12.107.249] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:21 < kanzure> i'm pretty sure i'll get banned if i bring that up in #lesswrong
21:22 < Aurelius_Home> which, the /r/btc link?
21:22 < kanzure> the other one. about him murderng dogs or whatever.
21:22 < kanzure> 20:34 <@gwern> ivan: you know, I wonder if this *is* my first raid. all that darknet work... oh wait, Sheep
21:23 < kanzure> 20:34 <@gwern> no, this would only be my second
21:23 < kanzure> 20:35 * gwern took a lot of heat for that too but was ultimately vindicated
21:23 -!- jtimon [~quassel@182.239.66.206] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:23 < kanzure> 20:36 <@gwern> I hope this time I don't have to wait a year for everyone to accept that I was right
21:23 -!- night [~Adifex@unaffiliated/adifex] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
21:24 < jrayhawk> he also replied again
21:24 < jrayhawk> oh, sorry, you already caught that
21:24 < jrayhawk> durr
21:24 < kanzure> easy to make that mistake since my reply is intentionally absent
21:37 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
21:38 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:39 < fenn> heh "once accepted a challenge to create a pencil from scratch and spent years on the problem, going so far as to make his own bricks to build his own kiln in which to mix the pencil’s graphite"
21:39 < fenn> ^ craig wright
21:40 < docl> :)
21:40 < kanzure> "As far as I can tell, you're bullying gwern. Please stop."
21:40 < kanzure> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10702104
21:40 < eudoxia> lol i just saw that comment
21:40 < fenn> people who anonymously call in raids are fair game
21:41 < docl> gwern called in the raid? seriously?
21:41 < kanzure> -_-
21:41 < namespace> docl: No.
21:42 < namespace> docl: Does your ethical calculus seriously change that much if he did versus this being a second order effect?
21:43 < fenn> it's odd that nobody has mentioned that the word "running" has two meanings, 1) operating a business, 2) smuggling
21:44 < fenn> "i've been running bitcoin since 2009" could mean laundering money through bitcoin
21:44 < docl> Depends mostly on how well he could have predicted it, I think.
21:44 < namespace> fenn: Well that would certainly explain his tax troubles. :P
21:45 < kanzure> fenn: some people just like making hoaxes. lots of people exaggerate.
21:45 < fenn> i'm sure he has a good reason to do this hoax, but just looking at his linkedin profile makes my eyes glaze over
21:46 < fenn> https://www.linkedin.com/in/craigswright
21:48 * namespace finds the "It's Gawker so it can't be true." argument a little silly, especially since a hypothetical Satoshi has every incentive to discredit themself.
21:48 < namespace> Of course that's not really an easily falsifiable hypothesis.
21:49 -!- augur [~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:49 < fenn> gawker is known for bad journalism, so if you aren't willing to work very hard to verify/invalidate the claims, it's a good shortcut
21:49 < kanzure> trying to decide whether i should reply to sillysaurus
21:50 < namespace> Well as I'm to understand it the Gawker story is semi-sponsored by Wright, the entire point of choosing Gawker would be that they're a rag nobody will believe.
21:50 < namespace> Gawker is of course a tabloid that will publish anything so the incentives work out both ways.
21:51 < fenn> i haven't looked at gawker at all, how is it "semi-sponsored by wright"?
21:51 -!- |node [uid125132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fdkzkdskqknisxqk] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
21:51 < kanzure> haha reddit has been replying to my comment, "oh look he said gawker; ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW, you can stop reading anymore. case closed. anyone spending time following gawker is a total retard or bored to death immortal."
21:51 < namespace> IIRC he had his 'associates' cooperate in writing it but I might have to go back and reread.
21:51 * namespace does so
21:52 -!- augur [~augur@c-73-46-94-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
21:54 < kanzure> replied with, "I used to like the guy (this is crossing a line, for me) and I think he has lots of potential, but there's no reason for civilized society to tolerate anons recklessly calling in raids based on the accumulated weight of lots of non-evidence. When you make an accusation that someone is the richest person of all time, you are putting their life in danger and hanging your reputation on it. Standards of evidence here need to ...
21:54 < kanzure> ... be extremely high because raids are going to happen, stuff's going to get stolen, lives ruined, and people are going to get killed. Leaving out and glossing over the lack of merit of the cryptographic evidence is ridiculous (even for the extremely low standards we have to hold journalists to); he should have withdrawn consent earlier but to be complicit with that sort of editorial distortion field is, like I said, crossing a line ...
21:54 < kanzure> ... where his behavior needs to be explicitly pointed out. This ain't bullying."
21:55 < jrayhawk> gwern at least left the kleiman family out of it for the most part
21:55 < jrayhawk> andy cush had no such integrity
21:56 < kanzure> well, i can recognize that gwern didn't write the article. but he still has his name in it. he was working on this "for an entire month".
21:56 < kanzure> he was clearly making false impossible promises to the editors or something
21:57 < kanzure> i am fine with people investigating who satoshi nakamoto might be. i think that's somewhat reasonable. it's not okay to make ridiculous leaps in reasoning about evidence.
21:58 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hchodhsvoyschkjl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:04 < eudoxia> this sillysaurus reply is stupidier than the last
22:05 < namespace> Hm, I retract my claims until further notice.
22:07 < fenn> i think this hoax is good news for bitcoin as it provides a sufficiently large distraction to end the block size debate
22:08 < eudoxia> also the price is suddenly up
22:08 < fenn> any publicity does that
22:08 -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@37.218.184.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
22:09 < namespace> I don't know, I feel like having the owner of the 1.1M fortune would actually be good for bitcoins price.
22:09 < namespace> It takes that unknown out of the equation.
22:09 < namespace> At least in the long run.
22:09 < namespace> *knowing the owner
22:10 * kanzure looks
22:10 < kanzure> https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=kanzure
22:10 < kanzure> oops wait
22:10 < kanzure> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10702001
22:11 < eudoxia> you know this is one of those situations when i'm glad i have every gawker site in my /etc/hosts
22:11 < eudoxia> fuckers don't deserve clicks
22:16 < kanzure> "Gwern has a long history of obsessive and misdirected behavior on this subject which is likely to cause harm to others. This particular case is Gwern's N-th accused "satoshi"... and this time the evidence consists mostly of counter evidence. For example, these pgp signed emails are signed with the key with short ID 5EB7CB21 which is not the well known key, does not exist in old keyserver dumps, and has a pref-hash-algos list of "8 2 9 ...
22:16 < kanzure> ... 10 11", which is the list that GNUPG started generating a year (commit e50cac1d848d332c4dbf49d5f705d3cbbf074ba1) after the date on the key. The well known key, which the new key claims to be generated within 24 hours of, has "2 8 3" which was an the prior list of hashes."
22:16 -!- juri_ [~juri@vpn166.sdf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
22:17 < kanzure> eudoxia: when you reply to sillywhoever, you might want to point out that the conversation was about gwern; the other parts of the hoax- like if the guy wanted to be found as satoshi- are unrelated. all sorts of people can have good reason to think they should get "caught as satoshi"...
22:18 < eudoxia> i think that was someone else
22:19 < eudoxia> now sillysaurus is asking what part of the article is unsubstantiated
22:19 < eudoxia> very passive-aggressively
22:25 < eudoxia> i am curious now
22:25 < eudoxia> how many people has gwern accused of being satoshi
22:27 < kanzure> i didn't know he was making accusations at all, until today. i knew he was collecting evidence (similar to myself) but uh.. hrm. well i guess i knew he doxxed that darknetmarket operator somewhere.
22:27 -!- Act [uid89656@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-icabobiqimksttlk] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:33 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-240-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:46 -!- poppingtonic [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap
22:48 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2602:306:35fa:d500:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:59 < kanzure> more comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10702001
23:02 -!- btcdrak [uid115429@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ccjmbfdxhtzcctzs] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:10 < kanzure> fenn: btw that 'debate' is maybe concluded see http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-December/011865.html
23:11 < catern> kanzure, why don't you just bet on it
23:11 < catern> perhaps with gwern
23:11 < catern> so he can get some money when he turns out to be right :)
23:12 < kanzure> he's just going to use that money to write more articles. i want him learning electronics, writing software, poking cells, cutting metal.
23:12 < fenn> gwern doing physical stuff doesn't seem likely
23:12 < fenn> writing software might happen though
23:12 < catern> kanzure: but if he's right, maybe he should be writing more articles, since he would clearly be good at it then :)
23:13 < kanzure> catern: you're an idiot
23:13 < fenn> gwern didn't write any articles
23:13 < catern> and he'd only get your money if he was right
23:13 < fenn> correction, gwern didn't write any of the mainstream news articles
23:13 < kanzure> unless you can come up with a reason why the pgp analysis (pasted above, from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10702186 ) is wrong; i'm pretty sure your bias for gwern is getting in the way of your ability to think.
23:13 < fenn> his blog posts are good
23:15 < kanzure> he didn't write it, sure. but he sure as heck could have attempted to very loudly and publicly condemn their accusations based on the available evidence.
23:15 < fenn> is sillysaurus one of the wired/gawker journalists?
23:15 < kanzure> unlikely. they are longtime HN commentators.
23:16 < fenn> that doesn't seem relevant
23:16 < kanzure> yeah ok. i guess that doesn't make them less likely to be gawker associate. but dunno.
23:20 < fenn> the predictable response of the bitcoin price rising suddenly in response to this article is reason enough for craig wright to have done the hoax
23:20 < kanzure> oh you don't have to reach that far, pfft
23:22 < jrayhawk> why is it rising, anyway? an MBTC is a sword of damocles for bitcoin value
23:22 < kanzure> "why is it rising"-- this is not how market price works
23:22 < jrayhawk> haha
23:23 < fenn> oh it only jumped 5% but my reasoning stands
23:23 < kanzure> seems like a pump-and-dump would be less effort
23:23 < jrayhawk> the more interesting deception scenario is that somebody close to craig wright really really hates him
23:23 < fenn> i imagine the bitcoin community is immune to pump-and-dump schemes
23:24 < kanzure> hah what? no it's not immune at all
23:24 < kanzure> look up "whale club"
23:24 < kanzure> look at daily threads like https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/3vvw48/daily_discussion_tuesday_december_08_2015/
23:25 < kanzure> people will look at price charts until their eyes bleed trying to divine meaning from technical analysis and "the news"
23:26 < jrayhawk> close enough to edit his blog posts and pepper half-truths into a suggestive narrative about him
23:47 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:48 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:53 -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:54 -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
23:54 -!- Viper168_ is now known as Viper168
23:57 < kanzure> "(EDIT: There are some good points in the ensuing discussion below. I don't know what to think yet, but my comment here was unfair. Sorry, kanzure. And thank you to everyone who responded.)"
23:57 < kanzure> whaaaat an apology
23:57 -!- berndj-blackout [~berndj@azna.co.za] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:57 * kanzure checks "win an internet flame war" off his bucket list
23:59 < kanzure> his defense about "it would be confusing / it would cause confusion in the article" is a good one. of course it would be confusing.... it's *wrong*.
23:59 < kanzure> *isn't a good one
--- Log closed Wed Dec 09 00:00:32 2015