--- Log opened Sun Dec 13 00:00:35 2015
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05:48 < rhaps0dy> do not call up that which you cannot put down
05:48 < rhaps0dy> spooooky
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06:15 < maaku> AdrianG: you do realize that kanzure holds a C-level position at a bitcoin company?
06:15 < maaku> anyway he's referring to the fact that within days (hours?) of satoshi announcing the first release of bitcoin, he hated on it here in ##hplusroadmap
06:16 < maaku> which, I think, was the first reaction most of us had, including kanzure and gmaxwell
06:16 < maaku> bitcoin's awesomeness is not obvious
06:17 < rhaps0dy> wait, if kanzure is an executive at bitcoin company, why does kanzure hate bitcoin?
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06:28 < kanzure> gosh you guys are really bad at reading
06:28 < kanzure> it has been many thousands of hours since bitcoin was released
06:29 < kanzure> this is often enough time for many people's opinions to change about things
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06:33 < kanzure> "Subsecond dopamine fluctuations in human striatum encode superposed error signals about actual and counterfactual reward" http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2015/11/18/1513619112.abstract
06:33 < kanzure> popularization http://research.vtc.vt.edu/news/2015/dec/01/virginia-tech-carilion-research-institute-scientis/
06:33 < kanzure> "using drones to train falcons" http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2015/12/hobbyists_are_using_drones_to_train_falcons.html
06:33 < kanzure> cc jrayhawk
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06:48 < rhaps0dy> "enough time for many people's opinions to change" alright, fair enough. And you likely have other reasons to stay in the company.
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07:00 < maaku> wow reading is hard
07:02 < maaku> rhaps0dy: the first time I heard about bitcoin it was the stupedist thing i'd ever heard of
07:02 < maaku> two years later I quit my job to work on bitcoin full-time, and co-founded a bitcoin technology company
07:02 < kanzure> rhaps0dy: discovering that i was the first hater of bitcoin is not enough to convince me to leave a bitcoin company.
07:04 < maaku> what bitcoin appears to be at first blush is not it's core value. it looks like expensive, environmentally unfriendly nerd money. it is actually radically socially transoformative democratizing technology
07:05 < kanzure> my january 10th 2009 criticism was "yet another p2p currency piece of crap"
07:05 < maaku> i think actually a lot of the PR problems we face with bitcoin core stem from this fact
07:06 < kanzure> little did i know how often i would be using that exact phrase in the future to describe bitcoin-derived noise :P
07:06 < maaku> people with long term experience with bitcoin tend to converge towards this socially transformative vision, whereas those new to the tech (and a few oddball oldtimers) focus on short-term utility that is at odds with the long-term vision
07:07 < kanzure> democratic is not as strong or useful of a word as you might think
07:08 < maaku> eh, it's an overused word with too many meanings
07:09 < maaku> i mean it as "returning power to the people", not that political thing with elections and assemblies of politicians
07:10 < maaku> but it does actually support the latter in the same way as the internet and the fax machine before that... but that's not something I care too much about
07:10 < kanzure> perhaps use "empowering"
07:10 < kanzure> where is breakfast
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07:11 < rhaps0dy> first time I heard about it (which was 1-2 years ago) I thought "whoah, awesome, p2p uncontrolled money!"
07:11 < rhaps0dy> but now I'm thinking more about why would we need that, and thanks for the cryptolocker malwares.
07:11 < maaku> kanzure: noted
07:12 < kanzure> to use cryptolocker as the reason to consider bitcoin useless is essentially the same as victim blaming
07:14 < rhaps0dy> They were meant as two separate concerns. Nevertheless, I didn't think about that and I agree.
07:18 < rhaps0dy> Why do we need an untraceable way to pay? It makes easier to conduct purchases that should better stay hidden. But which are those purchases?
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07:32 < maaku> rhaps0dy: the value of bitcoin is not the money. a decentralized token system is simply a necessary component of this class of decentralized consensus systems
07:35 < maaku> and decentralized consensus systems are awesome for their ability to completely replace basically all forms of contract arbitration, many aspects of governance, and remove basically all intermediaries and custodians
07:37 < maaku> in other words, something like 40% of global GDP ... gone ... and replace with math on computers, redirecting that money elsewhere, and remove the parasitic financial structure that transfers wealth from the productive to the establishment
07:46 < JayDugger> And how did you explain bitcoin to family members?
07:46 < rhaps0dy> Well that does sound nice. Have any more detailed explanation? I really am not versed in the topic.
07:48 < docl> Diablo-D3: A colony on Mars would be a terrible backup strategy. It would also waste money that could be better spent on self-replicating robots. However I agree on normal priorities being messed up.
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09:17 < kanzure> "cli todo manager" https://github.com/agateau/yokadi but the syntax is really weird (who wants to type "_" all the time?)
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09:21 < xentrac> docl: what do you think about subterranean cities as a backup strategy?  with enhanced geothermal recovery, the energy is available for the first time
09:22 < xentrac> I mean your subterranean city tied to a bunch of closed-circuit enhanced geothermal steam engines is still going to be vulnerable to a lot of instant mass death scenarios, but they won't be the same ones as the people on the surface.
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09:39 < bjonnh> I still don't believe in bitcoin
09:40 < bjonnh> got traded like any other thing in the world. As soon as most of it will be used as a traded currency, it will  be even worse than these currencies, because only the traders will get access to it
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09:47 < kanzure> "believe in bitcoin" what does that mean
09:47 < chris_99> it's a figment of your imagination
09:47 < kanzure> i would hope so by now
09:49 < xentrac> I don't believe in a dollar
09:50 < kanzure> i would hope not, i think you should do that in your head not in a dollar
09:50 < kanzure> wait, what's going on?
09:50 < xentrac> heh
09:52 < kanzure> xentrac: not sure about subterranean. why not under the surface of the ocean?
09:53 < xentrac> you mean, like, on the sea floor?
09:53 < kanzure> no! much higher.
09:53 < kanzure> well, i mean... wrong direction.
09:53 < xentrac> where do you get your energy from then?
09:54 < kanzure> sea floor i guess could be close to the surface, depending on depth
09:54 < xentrac> fusion reactors? that seems like a pretty big technical obstacle
09:54 < kanzure> energy would be solar or from solar-powered satellite. or wind or geothermal if you have vents on the floor nearby.
09:54 < xentrac> or are you refining uranium from seawater?
09:55 < kanzure> that would be nice but probably unnecessary
09:55 < xentrac> I think that if you're accessible to solar or satellite then it's not really a "backup plan"
09:55 < xentrac> you're still tightly coupled to whatever kills all the surface people
09:55 < xentrac> or wind
09:55 < kanzure> oops i didn't have that context.
09:56 < kanzure> i am proposing that even in the absence of mass death of surface-dwellers
09:56 < xentrac> geothermal from vents could work
09:56 < xentrac> but you can do geothermal anywhere and with unlimited expansion potential using enhanced geothermal
09:56 < xentrac> underground
09:57 < kanzure> underground is problematic unless you mean existing caves
09:57 < xentrac> no, not existing caves.  what's the problematic part?
09:57 < kanzure> digging. blowing stuff up.
09:58 < xentrac> well yeah, it does involve a lot of digging
09:58 < xentrac> probably if you're blowing stuff up you want to do that before you go down there
09:58 < kanzure> sure, sure.
09:59 < xentrac> there's also maybe the issue of where you put the chips from your later digging
09:59 < kanzure> wyoming.
09:59 < xentrac> I'm thinking the answer is something like "close to the surface"
10:01 < xentrac> probably it would be better to try this somewhere other than wyoming.  like somewhere that doesn't have a well-established mineral interest regime that will make it expensive
10:03 < kanzure> hm i guess we haven't actually tried a large-scale excavation project for housing reasons
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10:05 < kanzure> wasn't there a legend about a monk that created a canyon like that
10:06 < xentrac> not that I know of
10:06 < xentrac> we do have a lot of experience with large-scale excavation projects though
10:06 < kanzure> yeah but we still haven't relocated any lakes or anything cool like that
10:09 < heath> http://www.medicinalgenomics.com/kannapedia/
10:09 < heath> "The Cannabis Phylogenetic tree has been studied for years. Only recently have we had the tools to expand the resolution of these maps 10,000 fold with the advent of Next Generation Sequencing. Kannapedia is designed to be an open source genetic registry of cannabis genetics that are registered with the Bitcoin Blockchain to drive authenticity and trusted consensus on the phylogenetic registration of Cannabis Strains."
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10:11 < Diablo-D3> >tree
10:11 < xentrac> yeah, but a city is a lot smaller than a lake
10:11 < Diablo-D3> so its acually a tree now?
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10:14 < xentrac> there's an existing mine with 1500km of roads, which is comparable in size to Boston or San Francisco: http://www.mining.com/worlds-largest-underground-mine-looks-like-38052/
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10:16 < xentrac> I suspect that there are much larger underground coal mines
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10:36 < Diablo-D3> xentrac: yeah, that stuff is entirely silly
10:36 < Diablo-D3> coal is solar power done massively wrong
10:44 < bjonnh> so what's going on with that https://github.com/kanzure/uncertainfuture
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12:40 < kanzure> bjonnh: afaik nothing is going on?
12:44 < Diablo-D3> [10:48:15] <docl> Diablo-D3: A colony on Mars would be a terrible backup strategy. It would also waste money that could be better spent on self-replicating robots. However I agree on normal priorities being messed up.
12:45 < Diablo-D3> docl: Im talking about trying to keep the human species from dying out
12:45 < Diablo-D3> 09:33:03] <kanzure> "Subsecond dopamine fluctuations in human striatum encode superposed error signals about actual and counterfactual reward" http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2015/11/18/1513619112.abstract
12:48 < Diablo-D3> kanzure: does the study mention if the dopamine fluctuations are normal, or what?
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13:47 < docl> xentrac: Subterranian works better per dollar spent than Mars I'd say (and would have more practical spillover benefits, like more research into better geothermal). You still have to have a viable cooling strategy. Water to steam tends to work well enough for this purpose, although ice to steam is better. Also, some classes of planet-killing catastrophe could still get you (asteroids that turn the crus
13:47 < docl> t to slag, say). You would also need to protect against earthquakes somehow.
13:52 < docl> Diablo-D3: How valuable is the human species survival, and why? Is it the things we can do? How to we budget for the specific human deaths that happen in the process? Is saving the human species without saving most humans more like 1% worse or more like 1000% worse than saving all humans?
13:55 < docl> A backup colony on Mars wouldn't save much of a percentage of humans if a planet killer catastrophe happened, just whoever happened to live there. Worse, the colony would likely die out due to complications of living on a non-terraformed planet, unless it had substantial tech infrastructure behind it.
13:56 < docl> The substantial tech infrastructure capable of supporting humans off world is the important piece of the puzzle. Not the colony site. We could have dozens of colonies in very short order if we had a decent off-planet manufacturing system.
13:58 < docl> Nuclear fission is current tech. So people could move to the Oort cloud and settle there, using fissionable materials refined from asteroids and so on. Being close to the sun isn't that important for basic life processes of biological humans.
13:59 < docl> So I say, focus on the tech infrastructure. Mars colonies is itself hype. And given that the planet is currently barren, we should plan to disassemble it *before* people decide to make their homes there.
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14:16 < docl> Dead species and people are not necessarily irrecoverable. There might be a way to run a sort of MRI on history by computationally processing the reflected electromagnetism of our light cone. If the human species is dead with no successor, that won't happen. So a backup does make sense even for the sake of those who die in the hypothetical catastrophe.
14:16 < Diablo-D3> [04:52:26] <docl> Diablo-D3: How valuable is the human species survival, and why? Is it the things we can do? How to we budget for the specific human deaths that happen in the process? Is saving the human species without saving most humans more like 1% worse or more like 1000% worse than saving all humans?
14:16 < Diablo-D3> docl: depends how you define what it means to be human
14:16 < Diablo-D3> and that always trails off into an unhelpful conversation
14:17 < Diablo-D3> and yes, I'm supporting terraforming mars
14:17 < Diablo-D3> Ive pretty much been sold on that ever since I read the mars trilogy as a child
14:17 < docl> Well, if we are dead and a FAI survives with our brain scans and the desire to resurrect us, that's not such a bad situation.
14:18 < Diablo-D3> well yeah
14:18 < Diablo-D3> but um shit
14:18 < Diablo-D3> Im trying to think of the name of that manga
14:19 < Diablo-D3> hotel by boichi
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15:42 < kanzure> solvespace paper http://cq.cx/dl/sketchflat-internals.pdf
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15:52 < CautiousNarwhal> you guys love solvespace
16:23 < _andares> What's it used for typically?
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16:50 < CautiousNarwhal> no idea... i think its used for prototyping ?
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17:20 < kanzure> bloop
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17:21 < kanzure> knowing about solvespace isn't a sufficient condition to claim love
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17:25 < CautiousNarwhal> ^
17:26 < kanzure> huh?
17:35 < justanotheruser> he is a troll I'm pretty sure
17:36 < CautiousNarwhal> who is a troll?
17:59 < C0RVUS> who isnt
17:59 < kanzure> hmm andytoshi and i estimate that blowing up the planet would not be enough to kill all humans
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18:01 < CautiousNarwhal> really?
18:01 < CautiousNarwhal> cause there is only one planet of humans
18:02 < CautiousNarwhal> not like we have a spare
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18:04 < andares> Yet
18:05 < eudoxia> kanzure: are you counting cryopatients as being 'alive', then i can see it
18:06 < CautiousNarwhal> even with cryopatients because who will revive them?
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18:08 < eudoxia> aliens
18:08 < erasmus> ripley
18:17 < CautiousNarwhal> lol
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19:20 < xentrac> docl: by "viable cooling strategy" do you mean to sink the heat from the geothermal energy so you can run a heat engine, or to keep the city itself at a viable canned-monkey temperature?
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19:22 < xentrac> for the first, you do exactly the same thing as to get the heat in the first place: drill to a layer that's at an appropriate temperature, hydrofrack it, and then pump the hot water through it to cool it.  eventually the coolth becomes depleted and you have to drill somewhere else
19:22 < xentrac> for the second, basically that's just a question of a bit of air conditioning
19:22 < erasmus> http://smartdrugsmarts.com/episode-104-electroceuticals/
19:24 < xentrac> 22:17 < docl> Well, if we are dead and a FAI survives with our brain scans and the desire to resurrect us, that's not such a bad situation.
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19:25 < xentrac> what if we are dead and an UFAI survives with our brain scans and a desire to resurrect us?
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20:00 < maaku_> xentrac: that would be a terrible situation
20:00 < maaku_> xentrac: i do not subscribe to the notion that my brain scan = me, but that is off-topic for this chanel
20:03 < maaku_> interesting, "no philosophy" seems to have been dropped from the topic
20:05 < maaku_> so I'll elaborate: if I today made a passive brain scan of you, then instantiated that scan in a lab 1,000 miles away, or didn't, how would you know? why would you care?
20:05 < erasmus> your dna is you
20:05 < maaku_> erasmus: my mom is an identical quadruplet. so her sisters are her?
20:05 < erasmus> yes
20:06 < maaku_> eh, i suspect you are trolling
20:06 < erasmus> so all your cousins are really your brothers and sisters.
20:06 < erasmus> why would this be off-topic?
20:07 < erasmus> I think it's interesting.
20:07 < erasmus> could a Qeeg in some way to a mirror into your soul?
20:07 < maaku_> it has in the past led to the type of endless discussion that never resolves
20:08 < erasmus> do you have issues with complexity?
20:08 < maaku_> are you speaking to me? no
20:08 < erasmus> yes
20:08 < erasmus> I am
20:08 < erasmus> cause I don't think there could be a simple answer to your question.
20:08 < maaku_> no i don't have issues with complexity, and my identical twin or genetic clone is not "me" in the sense that is relevant here
20:10 < erasmus> so Jango Fett and Bobo Fett weren't the same even though the had the same DNA.
20:10 < maaku_> the situation above is some unfriendly AI wipes out humanity, but takes careful brain scans first. it later decides to re-instantiate everyone in some utopian heaven, so all is good
20:11 < erasmus> you would need to store a HUUUGE amount of data.
20:11 < maaku_> my objection is that future-instantiated-me is not a continuation of my existence. it's someone else who just thinks and talks like me
20:11 < xentrac> maaku_: the question "how would you know?" depends on what is meant by "you", so there are multiple different reasonable answers to this
20:12 < erasmus> right like a ghola created in an Axlotl tank
20:12 < maaku_> xentrac: the question of "how would you know?" is not relevant to my objection. even if I never knew I would still object
20:12 < erasmus> what then is our essence, our true selves, our soul.
20:12 < xentrac> erasmus: an illusion
20:12 < erasmus> perhaps
20:13 < xentrac> maaku_: I might be in favor of it, depending on what you do in the lab
20:13 < maaku_> xentrac: let's imagine i kill your wife/brother/sister/parent/loved-one and replace them with a robot that in every way is the same. would you be upset when you found out?
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20:13 < erasmus> when Sebastion asked Pris she replied. I think Sebastion therefore I am.
20:13 < xentrac> maaku_: they do that themselves every night
20:13 < xentrac> for some reasonable defintions of "kill" and "robot"
20:13 < bjonnh> maaku_: I would be upset
20:14 < xentrac> http://existentialcomics.com/comic/1 is the best literature I have found so far on this topic
20:14 < erasmus> Paul Atreides could have had his beloved Chani back as a ghola but refused.
20:14 < maaku_> bjonnh: then you have a grounding for my objection. destructive copying (mind upload and kill) is that objectionable scenario
20:15 < maaku_> xentrac: eh, no memories don't form during sleep, but the brain does continue functioning just fine
20:15 < maaku_> xentrac: general anesthetic, maybe
20:15 < bjonnh> because you make the hypothesis that you can make an exact copy including everything, and you still call that a robot
20:16 < erasmus> if a bunch of identical twins got into a car accident and some of them died and the one who survived needed brain surgery and got some of the twins tissue would they have their brothers or sisters memories?
20:16 < bjonnh> erasmus: if you consider that all memory is in the brain yes
20:16 < erasmus> where else could it be stored?
20:16 < bjonnh> there are neurons elsewhere in the body
20:17 < bjonnh> immune system has memory too
20:17 < bjonnh> cells have memory too
20:17 < bjonnh> if you think memory of events/people brain is probably enough
20:17 < xentrac> maaku_: you die every second and are reborn
20:17 < xentrac> and this is why "no philosophy" was in the topic
20:17 < bjonnh> if you think memory of everything the body has been exposed to… brain is not enough
20:17 < erasmus> weren't there dinosaurs that were so big that they had a small brain in their ass that handled the hind legs?
20:18 < erasmus> it might be a myth
20:18 < erasmus> http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-double-dinosaur-brain-myth-12155823/?no-ist
20:18 < erasmus> yeah it's a myth
20:18 < bjonnh> maaku_: my main objection to all this mind upload thing, is that our social system is too broken to allow everybody to have access to that.
20:19 < maaku_> bjonnh: so don't let everyone have access to it
20:19 < bjonnh> maaku_: meaning that it will solve nothing else than the fear of dying of the people who can afford it
20:19 < maaku_> why do we have to be egalitarian?
20:19 < bjonnh> which by the way may not help them resolving their issues
20:19 < erasmus> maaku_ most people aren't.
20:21 < maaku_> xentrac: bollocks. the mind and body are a continuously operating integrated process. the edge cases are hard to process but it is certiainly not the case that one "dies every second and is reborn"
20:21 < bjonnh> it would mean that all processes are synchronized
20:21 < bjonnh> which they are not
20:22 < maaku_> i thought "no philosophy" was in the topic because we're all now talking about this instead of working ;)
20:22 < erasmus> this is perhaps why I banned from here
20:22 < erasmus> *get
20:23 < bjonnh> hah
20:23 < bjonnh> maaku_: that said, you were the one starting that no ?
20:23 < erasmus> this is all my fault I guess
20:23 < maaku_> i'm on vacation :)
20:23 < bjonnh> fair enough
20:25 < xentrac> maaku_: the mind and body continue to be a continuously operating integrated process even as the body is rotting after its heart has stopped, no?
20:25 < xentrac> and it hardly seems especially relevant whether it's continuous or discontinuous
20:26 < xentrac> if the universe stopped for a moment and then continued on as before, would that kill everyone alive and replace them with copies?
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20:27 < xentrac> I mean, that is a thing that could be happening frequently.  or you could even argue that it is necessarily happening frequently if you accept a definition of time for which it is a coherent question
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20:29 < maaku_> xentrac: the best (meaning most explanitory given the evidence) theory I've heard so far is that all physical processes have subjective experience, even a rock is in some limited since conscious. interacting/entangled processes 'merge' this experience, the brain and body is one giant merged subjective experience
20:30 < xentrac> sure, that seems totally plausible, but it doesn't rescue your thesis about how being uploaded is fundamentally different (and worse) than being anesthetized or just allowing some time to pass
20:30 < maaku_> so yes, the body rots and breaks up into smaller and smaller entities, but certainly there is something lost in the process, the monumental association of processes that is you or me
20:30 < erasmus> like in Prometheus
20:30 < xentrac> sure, but that monumental association is just what the uploading process is postulated to preserve
20:31 < xentrac> but it's probably a lot more entertaining to get all this from the comic I linked above than from me blathering on IRC
20:31 < erasmus> which comic?
20:32 < maaku_> xentrac: maybe there is lack of clarity on my thesis -- I'm saying that instantiation matters. that if another interacting process that resembles me, either biologically or in emulation on a computer, is started, it shares characteristics with me but is not me
20:33 < xentrac> 04:14 < xentrac> http://existentialcomics.com/comic/1 is the best literature I have found so far on this topic
20:33 < maaku_> xentrac: to transition to uploaded state (my own life goal for the moment), I need to co-exist in biological and electronic form, slowly transitioning
20:33 < xentrac> maaku_: but you could make the same argument about yourself after general anesthesia, or after the hypothetical universal pause
20:34 < maaku_> xentrac: universal pause doesn't make physical sense, but for general anesthesia, yes. it scares the crap out of me
20:35 < xentrac> you should read the comic then!
20:35 < xentrac> you will feel better in a way that might save your life
20:35 < maaku_> I have read it, disagree with the conclusions
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20:37 < xentrac> oh, bummer
20:38 < maaku_> the "your body is disassociating every picosecond anyway" argument falls flat. it presumes quite a bit such as synchronicity of lock-step physical processes, and a lack of long-duration physical processes
20:38 < maaku_> it's a very computation-oriented argument, which doesn't reflect physical reality very well
20:38 < erasmus> isn't that just a rip off of that movie about the magicians?
20:38 < xentrac> the universal pause is easy to accept if you presuppose that we are in a simulation, or could be without being able to tell
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20:38 < maaku_> erasmus: and and the movie was better (batman vs wolverine!)
20:39 < xentrac> if the computer simulating our universe blocks on a page fault for a while, then our universe is paused until it loads the relevant page from disk
20:39 < erasmus> Wolverine would destroy Batman
20:39 < xentrac> in its timeline
20:39 < maaku_> sadly batman wins in this case
20:41 < erasmus> Batman would get owned and sliced to pieces
20:41 < erasmus> Batman would be shredded.
20:41 < xentrac> some people think the existence of qualia demonstrates that we are not in a simulation but I am pretty sure that you are not among them, maaku_
20:43 < erasmus> are you then suggesting that maaku_ is out of alignment?
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20:44 < xentrac> no
20:45 < xentrac> so, how's the Linux port of solvespace?
20:45 < xentrac> is it working enough to be worth trying?
20:46 < maaku_> xentrac: even if we presuppose physics to be lock-step and time-discrete that doesn't mean we "die and are reborn" between time units
20:46 < maaku_> erasmus: yes my views are non-mainstream
20:46 < maaku_> at the end of the day though it doesn't radically change the next steps
20:47 < maaku_> it does mean I choose cryonics over brain plastication (sp?)
20:47 < maaku_> and I seek transitional uploading (artificial neurons) vs brain scan and emulate
20:47 < xentrac> all of our views are non-mainstream
20:47 < maaku_> but the next steps are still the same ones: molecular nanotechnology, artificial intelligence, etc.
20:48 < maaku_> xentrac: too true
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20:49 < maaku_> oh and I avoid general anestshetic as if it were something that'd kill me
20:49 < maaku_> but other than that, things are the same
20:49 < xentrac> :)
20:52 < xentrac> so.  constraint solving and optimization and solvespace.  how are things?
20:54 < xentrac> (a new sun rises each day, but my sadness is still the same.)
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21:09 < docl> It's weird, I have intuitions like maaku_ but logically agree with xentrac.
21:11 < docl> I think I'd have a phobia of teleporters if they were invented, but (if they are perfect enough) would think of that fear as irrational.
21:21 < xentrac> yeah, I probably would too.  on the other hand, I've already been through general anesthesia, and A++++ would die again
21:24 < docl> :)
21:24 < xentrac> at least in that way!
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22:32 < kanzure> 20:00 < maaku_> xentrac: i do not subscribe to the notion that my brain scan = me, but that is off-topic for this chanel
22:32 < kanzure> omg someone that is capable of both disagreeing and also understanding why something is off-topic, geeze wtf
22:32 < kanzure> must be a witch, burn him at the stake
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--- Log closed Mon Dec 14 00:00:36 2015