--- Log opened Sat Dec 26 00:00:47 2015
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03:56 < jrayhawk_> running a powerpc on an 68k asm operating system sounds great
03:56 < jrayhawk_> these are all great ideas and we are great people for having them
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08:40 < ebowden> +seen HEx1
08:41 < HEx1> mmm?
08:42 < ebowden> +hi HEx1
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08:44 < ebowden> Well, welcome to fosscad.
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08:56 < ebowden> +seen xentrac
08:56 < ebowden> Oh, wrong chan.
08:56 < ebowden> Derp.
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10:49 < Diablo-D3> "Logarithms are like violence—if it's not flat yet, you need to use more."
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11:10 < kanzure> "Status of tor hidden services proposals" https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-dev/2015-October/009762.html
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11:31 < xentrac> I don't think I'm on any channels with +seen
11:32 < xentrac> there's an item on HN today about constraint programming: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10793459
11:32 < xentrac> I wrote a comment there about why it matters
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11:41 < kanzure> there's a version of constraint programming that is highly relevant to the crypto programming world, but unfortunately i have forgotten all the details
11:43 < AdrianG> nice, thanks xentrac
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12:07 < xentrac> maybe you're thinking of SAT solvers, kanzure?
12:10 < xentrac> AdrianG: sure, glad you enjoyed it
12:10 < xentrac> 11:56 < jrayhawk_> running a powerpc on an 68k asm operating system sounds great
12:11 < xentrac> yeah, that's why I didn't respond to the comment :)
12:33 < maaku> "<kanzure> .... unforunately I have forgotten all the details" Who are you and what have you done with the real kanzure?!
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12:42 < kanzure> you know, i ask myself those questions every day
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13:48 < delinquentme> QUESTION: the windows 7 iso that has all of the registration shit scrubbed from it ?
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15:54 < Alcyius> Reality isn't black and white, it's more nuanced
15:54 < Alcyius> Introspection is hard though
15:54 < Alcyius> Solution: Create Skull-King, the Giant Robotic Scourge of Mankind
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16:22 < kanzure> re: "visual phenotype of brain should not be assumed to be useful for figuring out brain emulation of human-like cognitive ability", interesting to note that audio and visual cortex scans do seem to have been somewhat productive given visual cortex simulations and auditory cortex simulation success - in particular how similar the models seem to predict actual observed behavior of those brain regions.
16:22 < kanzure> dunno how safe it is to assume this holds for every brain region's visual phenotype and connectivity, though.
16:24 < kanzure> actually i think i should be able to add at least some part of the motor cortex to that list.... not sure how much has been modeled but i do remember at least 10% by volume or something.
16:25 < kanzure> (in a functional sense; i mean 10% by volume, but the 10% volume was functional and did.... something.)
16:40 < archels> what is the definition of a visual phenotype?
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18:41 < fenn> i think "visual phenotype" refers to a stack of electron microscope scans sufficient to trace neurons? this seems like a dumb name
18:42 < fenn> and we don't have anything better really, unless there has been major progress in whole-brain optogenetics in the last couple years
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18:52 < Alcyius> Anyone see Neil deGrasse Tyson's speech?
18:52 < Alcyius> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w870glQOOg
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19:10 < kanzure> okay okay instead of visual phenotype how about visual appearance.
19:11 < kanzure> also, i think electrophysiological characterization has already been established as superior?
19:11 < kanzure> multi patch clamp technique allows you to stimulate random neuron in your patch clamped graph and then see which other neurons respond in patch clamp detectable ways.
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20:25 < kanzure> oh re: electron microscopy, no i wasn't really thinking that, i was going more for bulk connectivity data, like single-synapse-resolution mapping or something. but yeah i would take single-neuron electron microscopy scan data, sure....
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20:37 < Alcyius> http://youtu.be/YkgDhDa4HHo
20:37 < Alcyius> This is hilarious
20:38 < bjonnh> .title
20:38 < yoleaux> Doug Stanhope: Voice of America - ABORTION IS GREEN - YouTube
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21:00 < kanzure> from a few days ago i was using "visual phenotype" to point out that brain evolution had nothing to do with visual appearance of brain matter. reverse engineering the brain has an unknown amount to do with visual spectrum appearance of brain. well maybe not unknown. but the point was that the pixels scanned into a computer are not going to directly program the computer to do (relevant/interesting) brain emulation things. but we already ...
21:00 < kanzure> ... knew that too.
21:05 < Diablo-D3> kanzure: well, yes, if your'e doing brain emulation, what you need to emulate is the neuron connection graph, and the various latencies and ttls
21:06 < Diablo-D3> what its shaped like is immaterial
21:06 < Diablo-D3> (unless its not immaterial, but then that just starts getting weird)
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21:25 < kanzure> no, there are other details other than just connectivity (like weight... but this is over-simplification.)
21:27 < maaku> i wish that, like with WBE, there was a roadmap to creating artificial neurons and doing neuron replacement..
21:27 < maaku> i suspect that there is work that could be done now in preparation for that
21:27 < maaku> currently still a lot of overlap with WBE though
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21:32 < Alcyius> Question
21:33 < Alcyius> Is just running a scan of a brain in a physics simulator too processor intensive? Or are there other reasons that wouldn't work
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21:34 < Alcyius> Or am I just not understanding the problem to the point of oversimplifying it?
21:34 < Alcyius> (That's probably the case)
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21:57 < xentrac> Alcyius: I think Kurzweil's books go into some detail on how soon we are expected to reach levels of computational power capable of simulating brains in different ways; you should read them
21:57 < Alcyius> I remember reading as a matter of just raw data storage
21:57 < xentrac> alternatively, you may find it instructive to write a simple physics simulation, like a ray tracer, and measure its performance on current hardware
21:57 < Alcyius> WoW a couple years ago, their servers were the equivalent of one human mind
21:58 < xentrac> bullshit
21:58 < Alcyius> I'm not sure if they used the estimate of the memory storage of the human brain (about 300 years of memories, last time I read)
21:58 < Alcyius> They probably used that
21:58 < Alcyius> With some conversion
21:58 < Alcyius> Yeah that's what I said
21:58 < Alcyius> Today maybe?
21:59 < Alcyius> we make 2.5 exabytes of information a day
21:59 < Alcyius> Not sure if its all stored
21:59 < xentrac> I've given you a couple of easy exercises to answer your questions.  Now I am going to go work on my own exercises.
21:59 < Alcyius> Yeah
22:01 < xentrac> I regret that I am not better at teaching.
22:01 < Alcyius> I'm decent at teaching
22:01 < Alcyius> I could probably get a job as a paid tutor
22:01 < Alcyius> But I'm horribly misanthropic
22:01 < Alcyius> Especially around anyone younger than say...15
22:01 < Alcyius> (I say this as an 18 year old)
22:03 < xentrac> I do think that if you try one of the two things I suggested above, you will be delighted at your newfound understanding!
22:05 < Alcyius> I think I'll pass
22:05 < Alcyius> Mostly because I just have no energy right now(or lately at all)_
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--- Log closed Sun Dec 27 00:00:48 2015