--- Log opened Mon Jan 04 00:00:55 2016 00:36 -!- pompolic [~A@unaffiliated/pompolic] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40 -!- pompolic [~A@unaffiliated/pompolic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:41 -!- |node [uid125132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-alieoxuybllyuxde] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 01:06 -!- dcentral [~IGLC@2601:680:c400:e360:80fc:69df:c3f2:ad0d] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:25 -!- wrldpc1 [~ben@pw126255018005.9.panda-world.ne.jp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:26 -!- dcentral [~IGLC@2601:680:c400:e360:80fc:69df:c3f2:ad0d] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:27 -!- dcentral [~IGLC@2601:680:c400:e360:80fc:69df:c3f2:ad0d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:28 -!- wrldpc1_ [~ben@pw126236224255.12.panda-world.ne.jp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:30 -!- wrldpc1 [~ben@pw126255018005.9.panda-world.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:30 -!- wrldpc1_ is now known as wrldpc1 01:38 -!- jenelizabeth [~jenelizab@cpc76802-brmb10-2-0-cust399.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:39 -!- jenelizabeth [~jenelizab@cpc76802-brmb10-2-0-cust399.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:40 -!- pompolic [~A@unaffiliated/pompolic] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:40 -!- pompolic [~A@unaffiliated/pompolic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:42 -!- wrldpc1 [~ben@pw126236224255.12.panda-world.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:54 -!- jenelizabeth [~jenelizab@cpc76802-brmb10-2-0-cust399.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: byeeee] 01:54 -!- jenelizabeth [~jenelizab@cpc76802-brmb10-2-0-cust399.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:13 -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-188-103-077-131.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:27 -!- Act [uid89656@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rtccofwwmorsanvp] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:33 -!- drewbot_ [~cinch@ec2-50-19-146-68.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:38 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-197-137-32.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:03 -!- Act [uid89656@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rtccofwwmorsanvp] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 03:38 < archels> "We have selected scientists like you, who have an enormous contribution in their respective field [..." 03:39 < archels> you... you read my conference abstracts? *blushes* 03:51 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:59 -!- c0rw|zZz is now known as c0rw1n 04:00 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:11 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:12 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esb242.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:13 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Client Quit] 04:14 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esb242.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:16 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esb242.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:33 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nzpecrqfxuaarndc] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:39 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:43 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Client Quit] 04:54 -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-188-103-077-131.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:00 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:09 < kanzure> nah there's a bunch of spam like that 05:13 < Jawmare> archels, predatory publishers 05:20 -!- atomical [~atomical@50.247.130.97] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:23 < archels> don't ruin it for me 05:26 < kanzure> r2d2 dies 05:30 < archels> that's OK, I'm of the Trekkie conviction 05:32 < kanzure> spock already died dude. he's gone for good. 05:33 < archels> there is no already in a universe where time travel has been achieved 05:36 < archels> (and let's not get into Tipler's Eternal Return) 05:46 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-103-27.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:58 -!- Houshalter [~Houshalte@oh-71-50-56-224.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:13 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esb242.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:20 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jkpwnbiccuiklqjn] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 06:37 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-103-27.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:46 < archels> haha missed this the first time around https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDZu04v7_hc 06:46 < archels> .title 06:46 < yoleaux> HappyHolidays - YouTube 07:05 -!- Houshalter [~Houshalte@oh-71-50-56-224.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:22 -!- Houshalter [~Houshalte@oh-71-50-56-224.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:39 -!- Houshalter [~Houshalte@oh-71-50-56-224.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:50 -!- poppingtonic [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:12 -!- |node [uid125132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aovhogwobohgzydx] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:18 -!- jtimon [~quassel@103.red-80-26-235.adsl.dynamic.ccgg.telefonica.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:26 < Alcyius> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Moseley#Death_and_aftermath 08:26 < Alcyius> Here's an interesting bit 08:29 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nzpecrqfxuaarndc] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 08:34 < FourFire> losses here, there and everywhere 08:34 < FourFire> no purpose in mourning that which could have been 08:35 < maaku> jrayhawk: halting problem is a non-issue. nodes don't perform computation, they validate the a computation occured 08:58 -!- Urchin[emacs] [~user@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:11 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-97-25.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:18 -!- erasmus [~erasmus@unaffiliated/erasmus] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:32 < eudoxia> happy birthday kanzure 09:32 < eudoxia> facebook notifications are good for something after all 09:35 < kanzure> hi 09:37 < andytoshi> if eudoxia's facebook is right, happy birthday! 09:37 < kanzure> andytoshi: we should do food soon 09:37 < kanzure> are you back yet? 09:37 < andytoshi> kanzure: agreed. i'm in vancouver bc right now, headed to SF for real world crypto tomorrow 09:37 < kanzure> bah 09:37 < andytoshi> nope :/ 09:38 < kanzure> whatever. 09:38 < andytoshi> and it might be a little while 09:42 < FourFire> kanzure, I heard you've survived yet another arbitrary orbit around the sun; may you endure yet tenfold more! 09:57 < maaku> happy birthday indeed! 09:57 < maaku> and i sure hope it is more than tenfold more 09:58 -!- jtimon [~quassel@103.red-80-26-235.adsl.dynamic.ccgg.telefonica.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:58 < andytoshi> well, if we all individually wish tenfold more 09:58 < andytoshi> that should give kanzure enough time to find more friends who will also with tenfold more.. 09:59 < maaku> you guys need to manufacture an excuse for me to be in Austin, and I'll buy the food 10:08 < FourFire> I dunno... I'm not gonna maaku 10:11 < maaku> haha i menat andytoshi and kanzure. you're someone in scandinavia, no? 10:16 < pasky> happy birthday! but we should start working harder if it's to be tenfold more yet 10:17 < kanzure> yeah i guess prioritizing better nootropics would make sense. 10:18 < xentrac> this silicon oxycarbide stereolithography thing sounds kind of important actually: http://phys.org/news/2016-01-breakthrough-ceramics-3d-technology.html 10:19 < xentrac> they are able to sinter the polymerized resin, which I guess is probably silicon carbide filled, to get fully dense ceramics. I'd like to read the paper 10:23 < xentrac> no, no sintering; they're using a "preceramic polymer" 10:25 < xentrac> (mercaptopropyl) methylsiloxane mixed with vinylmethosiloxane plus some additives for the stereolithography 10:26 < xentrac> "Pyrolysis at 1000°C in argon was accompanied by 42% mass loss and 30% linear shrinkage" 10:43 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-97-25.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:51 -!- |node [uid125132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aovhogwobohgzydx] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 11:16 -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@212.97.26.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:34 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-211-7-86.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:39 -!- drewbot_ [~cinch@ec2-50-19-146-68.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:44 -!- jdqx [~jdqx@2602:306:cc94:1950:500f:4ed:5e20:705f] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:46 -!- jtimon [~quassel@103.red-80-26-235.adsl.dynamic.ccgg.telefonica.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:47 < Alcyius> https://www.reddit.com/r/WritingPrompts/comments/3ze1ei/wp_aliens_find_earth_and_decide_that_our 11:53 < kanzure> stop reading reddit 11:53 < kanzure> it's rotting your brain 11:58 < maaku> ain't that the truth 12:04 -!- andares [~andares@unaffiliated/jacco] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:05 < juri_> http://faikvm.com/20160102_184234.jpg 12:09 < kanzure> not enough yellow tape 12:14 < archels> it's huge 12:28 < juri_> a lot of yellow tape is out-of-frame. 12:47 -!- |node [uid125132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zrbufemigpabdkff] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:06 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wvuryraxifhzrfsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:26 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:01 < kanzure> "MusicXML has been transfered to the W3C in July 2015 and there is now a music notation community group: https://www.w3.org/community/music-notation/ " 14:06 -!- atomical [~atomical@50.247.130.97] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 14:21 -!- erasmus [~erasmus@unaffiliated/erasmus] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:39 < FourFire> kanzure, did you respond to my question about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rimonabant ? 14:39 < kanzure> nope 14:39 < kanzure> .wik rimonabant 14:39 < yoleaux> "Rimonabant (also known as SR141716; trade name Acomplia) is an anorectic antiobesity drug that has been withdrawn from the market due to potentially serious side effects. It was approved for use in Europe and other countries, but never approved in the United States. Rimonabant is an inverse agonist for the cannabinoid receptor CB1." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rimonabant 14:40 < kanzure> dunno. 14:40 < FourFire> I reckon, that I'm willing to risk "severe depression" and "intrusive thoughts" for short periods if the benefits are good enough 14:41 < FourFire> in my experience my short term memory is... suboptimal, noticably causing social faux pas' and sometimes I've called someone or emailed them and not recalled it... 14:49 < kanzure> i'm not convinced that you have pursued all social options. as i reclal you were still building up a good set of colleagues to work with. 14:52 < xentrac> FourFire: have you ever experienced severe depression or intrusive thoughts? 14:58 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uvobyzpwzrazcgnh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:58 < FourFire> xentrac, well I don't know about "severe". but I've overcome a depression which lasted over six months in the past, and with that followed suicidal thoughts (and quite a few occasions where I seriously contemplated suicide) 14:58 < FourFire> kanzure, sure, just wondered whether you've come across it before. 14:59 < xentrac> that sounds like mild clinical depression, rather than severe depression 14:59 < FourFire> oh and I experience intrusive thoughts several every times week or so 15:00 < FourFire> why just today, I was wondering how quickly I could ruin the metro driver's day by frying myself on the tracks ... 15:00 < FourFire> really annoying that, but it's just something I have to deal with. 15:01 < xentrac> have you ever been having an interesting conversation when suddenly you stopped talking because you were suddenly reminded of something you'd done wrong a year earlier? 15:03 < kanzure> xentrac: my diagnosis is that FourFire needs better friends, a different social environment from what he was previously inserting himself into, and to pick better goals probably under the supervision of more experienced individuals 15:03 < FourFire> xentrac, yeah :( 15:04 < FourFire> but most of my conversation aren't very interesting, so it's more interesting at that point to explain to my s/victim/conversational partner/ exactly why them mentioning shoes made me grimace and pause 15:05 < kanzure> was the thing you were going to say something like "i put my shoes on the wrong feet last year"? 15:05 < xentrac> FourFire: all in all it sounds pretty unpleasant. maybe kanzure is right that better friends will help 15:05 < FourFire> I think my goals are okay... I just need to make use of some sort of organizational structure which connects them to the present, and actions I can make on a day to day basis 15:06 < xentrac> yeah, organizing our lives in alignment with our goals is hard 15:06 < FourFire> I seem to be rather bad at setting short and medium term goals and actually reaching them... 15:06 < FourFire> I should be sleeping now, talk later 15:07 < kanzure> iirc the last goal you set was "solve protein folding" 15:07 < kanzure> which is an interesting goal, but not necessarily the correct goal for you at the moment 15:07 < FourFire> uh, now listen here, my goal isn't anywhere near that 15:07 < kanzure> :-) 15:09 < FourFire> it's "make a tool which can automate design of arbitrary proteins based on a fitness function" thus turning the design problem into "a whopping great big pile of computation" problem, which will be solve by a whole load of people much smarter and more competent than me, especially since it has a global economy pushing it forwards 15:10 < FourFire> secondary goal is "use said tool to solve one problem in biology" 15:10 < FourFire> that just happens to be the information loss in DNA problem, but low hanging fruit first, right? 15:18 -!- pasky [~pasky@nikam.ms.mff.cuni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:20 -!- pasky [~pasky@nikam.ms.mff.cuni.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:22 -!- Houshalter [~Houshalte@cpe-65-24-174-129.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:28 < xentrac> yeah, protein folding in general is a much harder problem than that 15:28 < xentrac> because you have to predict the folding of proteins that you didn't design 15:28 < xentrac> if you're designing them you can restrict it to proteins that are easy to predict 15:43 -!- Aurelius_Home [~cpopell@c-76-26-144-132.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:52 -!- Aurelius_Home [~cpopell@c-76-26-144-132.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:58 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-mdzkyhctvxobldov] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:58 < nmz787_i> sup 15:59 < nmz787_i> did I miss anything in the past ~2 weeks? 16:00 < kanzure> jules is working for your employer now 16:00 < kanzure> some brain uploading startup paid the channel a visit 16:01 < xentrac> nmz787_i: you can do stereolithography in silicon oxycarbide by using preceramic polymer resins 16:02 < xentrac> nmz787_i: Ian Murdock killed himself after being beaten and raped by the police 16:03 < xentrac> nmz787_i: webrecorder.io is a web service that will crawl sites you want to archive and generate a downloadable WARC file for you, which you can then view with pywb or similar tools 16:03 < kanzure> and springer leak 16:04 < xentrac> oh yeah, Springer released a hundred thousand books as open access 16:04 < xentrac> then changed their mind 16:04 -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-188-103-077-131.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:04 < xentrac> sci-hub got their domain back. we found out a lot about easy high-vacuum systems; a good overview is at http://www.belljar.net/2011_csl_vacuum_overview.pdf 16:04 < kanzure> the science pirate fairy told me about 900 GB was retrieved 16:05 < AdrianG> so that was actually official? 16:05 < AdrianG> not a glitch? 16:05 < xentrac> we have no reason to believe it was a glitch or that it was official 16:05 < AdrianG> kanzure: are they on torrents now? 16:05 < kanzure> no 16:05 < xentrac> Sandia announced a 3D printing process with a ceramic slurry squeezed through a sponge: http://www.sandia.gov/media/robocast.htm 16:05 < AdrianG> what a waste. 16:06 < xentrac> we found a fabulous would-be SKDB component about vacuum technology as it historically developed: http://accounts.smccd.edu/mcomberj/AVS_Timeline.pdf 16:06 < xentrac> there's an EDSL for GPGPU programming on the Raspberry Pi in Python: https://github.com/nineties/py-videocore 16:07 < kanzure> jrayhawk: one of the papers i was looking at recently suggested that human cortex ballooning was because better cognitive control algorithm to better exploit existing cognitive cortical information processing functions. and then ballooning soon after once additional fitness benefit could be extracted in the first place. 16:08 < xentrac> Argentina is releasing its exchange rate peg to the dollar, removing one significant Bitcoin constituency (did you know Coinbase was started here?) 16:08 < jrayhawk> link plz 16:09 < xentrac> and energy prices will probably stay low for a few years: ttp://www.juancole.com/2015/12/36barrel-democrats-presidency. 16:09 < xentrac> uh http://www.juancole.com/2015/12/36barrel-democrats-presidency.html 16:09 < xentrac> that's my summary of the past ≈2 weeks 16:09 < kanzure> jrayhawk: and, also, motor control and automaticity (like from cerebellum) as innerveating cerebral cortex for fine-tuning and control of information processing (as a sort of cognitive regulation or homeostasis). 16:09 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esb242.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:09 < kanzure> hm which paper was this... 16:10 < xentrac> oh and SpaceX landed a rocket first stage after launching satellites to orbit from it 16:14 < kanzure> jrayhawk: page 5 here is the one that mentions the increased innerveating compared to monkeys http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/Cerebellar%20networks%20with%20the%20cerebral%20cortex%20and%20basal%20ganglia.pdf 16:14 < nmz787_i> kanzure: pinged jules, thx 16:15 < kanzure> oh you are actually reading logs 16:15 < nmz787_i> xentrac: I'm not sure how 16:16 < kanzure> jrayhawk: maybe also http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/The%20cerebro-cerebellum:%20Could%20it%20be%20loci%20of%20forward%20models%3f.pdf 16:18 < kanzure> jrayhawk: and page 17-18 (maybe last part of page 16) of http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/cognitiveconsilience/Cognitive%20consilience:%20Primate%20non-primary%20neuroanatomical%20circuits%20underlying%20cognition%20-%202011.pdf 16:19 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-mdzkyhctvxobldov] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27 < xentrac> I wonder what nmz787_i was not sure how about 16:27 < kanzure> on a slightly related note, this was a neat paper that showed off mathematical modeling of different cortical information processing behavior through simulation of simplified representative equation http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/Selection%20of%20cortical%20dynamics%20for%20motor%20behaviour%20by%20the%20basal%20ganglia.pdf 16:38 < chris_99> https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7341-so_you_want_to_build_a_satellite#video was really interesting i thought 17:09 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uvobyzpwzrazcgnh] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:16 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-agjhzznifhznitiw] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:25 -!- Houshalter [~Houshalte@cpe-65-24-174-129.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:32 -!- jtimon [~quassel@103.red-80-26-235.adsl.dynamic.ccgg.telefonica.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:39 -!- Aurelius_Home [~cpopell@c-76-26-144-132.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:47 -!- Aurelius_Home [~cpopell@76.26.144.132] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:53 -!- Urchin[emacs] [~user@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:38 -!- byonic [sid34875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ooyqupuaoaukvorx] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:52 -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@212.97.26.140] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:55 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@134.134.139.76] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:55 < nmz787_i> kanzure: no, just what you sent a few mins ago 19:55 < nmz787_i> xentrac: I'm not sure how "high vacuum" that PDF is about... for the feedthrough section for example, it doesn't give any mention of pressures as far as I could tell. 19:56 < nmz787_i> (i got disconnected as I sent that last message) 19:57 < nmz787_i> it also only seems to cover diffusion pumps, which aren't necessarily high enough for molecular assembly, mass spec, FIB, electron beam nm scale beamwidth, etc 19:59 < nmz787_i> when my connection died, I went to the lab where my SEM is being stored and replaced the caster wheels... it now wheels around a smooth floor with ease. I also learned there is a roughing pump installed in the cabinet with the diffusion pump. 20:00 < nmz787_i> In bringing home the spare HV electronics module, spare roughing pump (without electric drive motor), and spare diffusion pump... I learned (or remembered) the roughing pump itself weighs something like 70 or 80 pounds. 20:00 < nmz787_i> without the motor 20:20 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:21 < xentrac> nmz787_i: yeah, it only covers diffusion pumps. there's a good diagram on p.5 about what kinds of pumps can reach what kinds of pressures, and what kinds of pressures are needed for what kind of applications 20:22 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:23 < xentrac> in particular for SEM/TEM microscopy it says you need 10⁻⁷ torr (about 10 microspascals) and that all kinds of high-vacuum pumps can reach that 20:24 < xentrac> although I guess you knew that because your SEM uses a diffusion pump ;) 20:25 < xentrac> our discussion suggested that you could probably do mass spectrometry at an even lower vacuum if it's sufficiently small (which I guess also means a sufficiently high magnetic field?) 20:27 < xentrac> WP says, "Although its use has been mainly associated within the high-vacuum range (down to 10−9 mbar), diffusion pumps today can produce pressures approaching 10−10 mbar when properly used with modern fluids and accessories." 10⁻¹⁰ mbar is 10 nanopascals 20:28 -!- CaptHindsight [~2020@unaffiliated/capthindsight] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:28 < xentrac> diffusion pumps do backstream, and that's a big problem for some applications 20:29 < CaptHindsight> http://spectrum.ieee.org/biomedical/devices/dna-manufacturing-enters-the-age-of-mass-production 20:33 < nmz787_i> CaptHindsight: not much new there, just downscaling existing and not much of an apparent breakthrough 20:35 < xentrac> (which is off the top of the chart there on p.5) 20:49 -!- Houshalter [~Houshalte@oh-71-50-56-224.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:51 < CaptHindsight> nmz787_i: happen to know their chemistry of choice? 20:59 < nmz787_i> I think it's just gibson assembly 20:59 < nmz787_i> or goldengate 21:02 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esb242.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:03 < CaptHindsight> I was more surprised that someone built production equipment 21:03 < CaptHindsight> not by any tech breakthrough 21:20 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wvuryraxifhzrfsh] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 21:27 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esb242.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:33 < nmz787_i> xentrac: my SEM is ~30 years old though... any decent unit today will come standard with a turbo pump and likely an ion getter pump too. The higher end models needing more resolution or less noise will forego the turbo for an oil diffusion pump with a cold trap for backdraft oil... but they all have the ion getter pumps (IGPs) 21:33 -!- erasmus [~erasmus@unaffiliated/erasmus] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:34 < nmz787_i> at least that's what I think... 21:34 < xentrac> I don't know anything about IGPs 21:34 < docl> I don't see anything about getters in the chart, for some reason. Ion is mentioned. 21:34 < xentrac> it's talking about ion diffusion pumps, docl 21:35 < docl> isn't ion separate from diffusion? 21:35 < xentrac> getters (particularly in the form of cryopumps) predate all the more mechanical pumping methods of achieving high vacuum, which is how it was possible to build an Audion in 1903 or whenever it was 21:35 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:35 < xentrac> normally a "diffusion pump" is an oil diffusion pump 21:36 < xentrac> originally it was a mercury diffusion pump, which worked the same way but used mercury; modern oils are better on a lot of axes 21:36 < nmz787_i> IGPs are usually high voltage and cause molecules to oxidise and deposit on parallel plates 21:36 < nmz787_i> well maybe they could also reduce and not just oxidise... idk 21:36 < xentrac> I see 21:36 < xentrac> well, they probably ionize ;) 21:37 < xentrac> and once the negative ions land on the plates, they are reduced, and when the positive ions land, they are oxidized 21:37 < docl> xentrac: sprengel pump was a diffusion pump, right? 21:37 < xentrac> no 21:37 < xentrac> the sprengel pump used liquid mercury, not mercury vapor 21:37 < xentrac> it's basically a liquid piston pump 21:37 < docl> ah, it has to be vapor to count as diffusion? 21:38 < xentrac> I'm not sure how to answer that 21:38 < xentrac> but oil and mercury diffusion pumps do use vapor 21:39 < xentrac> the idea is that the gas molecules can't diffuse fast enough through the vapor to move upstream, and then you condense the vapor at the outlet of the diffusion pump, leaving just the gas 21:39 < nmz787_i> hmm, I can't tell if some lower/entry level SEMs don't have ion pumps 21:40 < xentrac> I think my "ion diffusion pump" doesn't exist 21:40 < xentrac> and I was just confused 21:46 < docl> nmz787_i: another topic we touched on while you were gone is drawing fibers as a way to achieve nanotech. 21:48 < nmz787_i> or etching existing fibers with a continuosly diluted etchant 21:49 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-agjhzznifhznitiw] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 21:50 < xentrac> oh yeah, drawing preforms into glass fibers preserves their cross section limited mostly by surface tension, and you can get rid of that by making the preform out of two kinds of glass, one of which you chemically etch away after drawing 21:50 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esb242.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51 -!- byonic [sid34875@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ooyqupuaoaukvorx] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 21:51 -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@134.134.139.76] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:52 < xentrac> 10.1109/50.64916 21:53 < xentrac> "fine details with dimensions of down to 1 μm and below" 21:54 < xentrac> although of course it matters a lot whether you can get down to 1 μm, 100 nm, or 10 nm 21:55 -!- ParahSailin_ [~parahsail@unaffiliated/parahsailin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59 < xentrac> the difficulty of shaping existing fibers by selectively etching them is that you have to be able to position your etchant with nanometer precision if you are to get nanometer-scale features 22:10 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:13 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:13 < nmz787> I gotta figure out slicing and g-code layer generation for my laser cutter 22:13 < nmz787> I know BRLCAD has some gcode export stuff out there 22:15 -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-188-103-077-131.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:15 -!- Houshalter [~Houshalte@oh-71-50-56-224.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 22:17 < xentrac> I'm skeptical about this idea of "G-code export" 22:18 < xentrac> that sounds like a Verilog synthesis tool with an "FPGA bitstream export" 22:20 < nmz787> it must work with edges of the surfaces 22:21 < xentrac> well, what I mean is that G-code nails down a lot more decisions than the ones in the solid model 22:22 < xentrac> and, unlike what is typically the case with assembly code generation from a C compiler, you very often want to change those decisions because they sucked 22:23 < xentrac> they depend at a minimum on what kind of material you're building things out of and the capabilities of your machinery 22:39 -!- poppingtonic [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:46 -!- fleshtheworld [~fleshthew@2602:306:cf0f:4c20:7c0c:4350:b250:4c9f] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:56 < nmz787> ah, yeah, I am aiming to produce things for lithography using either a laser or some type of electron/ion beam 22:57 -!- erasmus [~erasmus@unaffiliated/erasmus] has quit [Quit: Namaste] 22:57 < juri_> nmz787: you see my toy? http://faikvm.com/20160102_184234.jpg 22:57 < juri_> yes, i'm proud. :) 22:58 < nmz787> keeewwwwlllll! 22:58 < juri_> it's a lasercutter, and a 3d printer. 22:59 < nmz787> nice 23:02 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:04 < nmz787> https://github.com/mbuesch/cnc/blob/master/tools/brlcad2gcode.sh 23:07 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:37 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:50 -!- fleshtheworld [~fleshthew@2602:306:cf0f:4c20:7c0c:4350:b250:4c9f] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] --- Log closed Tue Jan 05 00:00:56 2016