--- Log opened Sun Jan 24 00:00:13 2016
00:13 < kanzure> hmph
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01:28 < archels_> "I believe that all digitized information past and present will be inevitably become known & public post facto."
01:31 < archels_> "> This would be the end of freedom. I'll go into the reasons if needed, but the discussion has happened a few times before. Suffice to say, if you're not allowed to have privacy, then you're not allowed to be free."
01:42 < pompolic> what about perfect forward secrecy encryption though
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03:20 < DiabloD3> http://meaningness.com/metablog/sad-light-lumens
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03:40 < chris_99> https://github.com/dcunited001/mri-scans is cool, just loaded them into Slicer to play with
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05:12 < kish> what's the etymology of the channel name here
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05:23 < lkjhfr> kish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanity%2B
05:27 < lkjhfr> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism
05:27 < AdrianG> human+
05:27 < AdrianG> people are trying to upgrade themselves here, kish
05:27 < kish> what about hp
05:27 < kish> oh
05:27 < kish> human plus road map
05:28 < lkjhfr> :D
05:28 < kish> there was a movie with depp
05:31 < AdrianG> they stuffed  him into a computer
05:31 < AdrianG> and he went bonkers
05:38 < lkjhfr> .wik transhumanism
05:38 < yoleaux> "Transhumanism (abbreviated as H+ or h+) is an international and intellectual movement that aims to transform the human condition by developing and creating widely available sophisticated technologies to greatly enhance human intellectual, physical, and psychological capacities." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism
05:38 < lkjhfr> hah
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05:54 < FourFire> I didn't realize this existed: http://imgur.com/gallery/NfeUe
05:54 < lkjhfr> would transhumanism be of any use to a person who already is bonkers then?
05:54 < FourFire> (survuval after being frozen solid)
05:54 < FourFire> lkjhfr, so long as you aren't information-theretically dead, then there is still hope.
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05:55 < FourFire> if cryonically induced damage can be reversed, then likely any mental illness can be cured or circumvented or altered in structure so as to make a whole person again
05:56 < FourFire> even structural brain damage could be resolved depending on the locations and severity, by replacing the missing/damaged parts with generic neuron structures
05:58 < kanzure> a little brain damage isn't the end of the world
05:58 < FourFire> kish, that movie was freaking retarded and did most of the concepts involved a disservice.
06:01 < kanzure> "CRISPR controversy reveals how badly journals handle conflicts of interest" http://www.statnews.com/2016/01/21/crispr-conflicts-of-interest/
06:02 < lkjhfr> would transhumanism help hollywood screenwriters write scripts that would make sense and be at least a little meaningful instead of them resorting to making their characters bonkers?
06:11 < kanzure> haha you really think they have trouble writing other kinds of scripts?
06:15 < lkjhfr> yes. i always thought that there must be something seriously wrong with a person if they write a script like that
06:20 < pasky> this CRISPR controversy reminds me a bit of the deep learning controversy http://people.idsia.ch/~juergen/deep-learning-conspiracy.html
06:21 < FourFire> lkjhfr, a story requires a conflict
06:22 < FourFire> it seems to be difficult for hollywood to produce movies where the coolest part of the movie isn't Also the conflict
06:23 < FourFire> it should be possible to make decent science fiction movies where the transhumanist aspect isn't also the conflict aspect, such as "Her" (which I don't personally think was a very great movie)
06:24 < FourFire> Moon http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1182345/ was sort of like that.
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06:25 < lkjhfr> i've seen many movies without conflicts, which are mostly pleasant to watch
06:25 < lkjhfr> and interesting too
06:25 < lkjhfr> and i've seen one person refer to movies as 'watching simulator'
06:25 < lkjhfr> watching something doesn't require the thing to be dramatic
06:32 < lkjhfr> also, going bonkers is not a conflict, its a tragedy. and if that person is then attacked by other people, it's tragedy squared. it's not conflict.
06:35 < lkjhfr> and then, if someone makes a movie which presents such events, then it's basicallt tragedy cubed. because it is a tragedy in itself.
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06:53 < TMA> lkjhfr: "pleasant" is not the most sought after quality from the marketing point of view. "shocking" is the most sought after ;; the film competes for the $$$/eyeballs/attention, unless you have other sound factors getting those, you pimp up the "shocking" part to gain the attention
06:54 < kanzure> perhaps instead of worrying about hollywood you could instead write the story for the hplusroadmap manga
06:56 < kanzure> which is lacking story at the moment :P
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07:22 < lkjhfr> manga...nese?
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08:08 < fenn> .wik manga
08:08 < yoleaux> "Manga (漫画, Manga?) are comics created in Japan, or by creators in the Japanese language, conforming to a style developed in Japan in the late 19th century. They have a long and complex pre-history in earlier Japanese art." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manga
08:14 < lkjhfr> wouldn't drawing be an even bigger problem than writing the story?
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08:35 < FourFire> lkjhfr, tragedy cubed... because someone made a bad movie?
08:36 < FourFire> isn't a tragedy a conflict of interest which doesn't get resolved, or gets resolved in a way which triggers your mirror neurons?
08:39 < lkjhfr> i don't have mirror neurons ];>
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08:57 < lkjhfr> i do have some holographic film though
09:07 < lkjhfr> i also have a plant that's completely covered in powdery mildew
09:07 < lkjhfr> it only looks like a plant, it's not a plant anymore.
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09:13 < FourFire> hmm, watching some of Stefan Molyneux' youtube channel
09:13 < FourFire> is he a strong liberitarian (or whatever his political tag thing is) or a strawman of the the same?
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12:45 < FourFire> sending an inquisitive message to bioviva, anyone here have contact with them?
12:46 < FourFire> Message is about their gene therapy publicity stunt.
12:49 < kanzure> nope,.
12:49 < kanzure> why are you sending this?
12:49 < FourFire> I have some questions, why should i not?
12:50 < kanzure> because i didn't know you had questions?
12:50 < kanzure> in absence of knowledge about you having questions then it would make sense to ask why send
12:50 < FourFire> oh, do you have relevant knowledge of bioviva's actual treatment?
12:51 < kanzure> some kind of adenovirus.
12:51 < kanzure> it's in the logs
12:51 < FourFire> what % of cells are realistically being altered?
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12:53 < FourFire> hmm ok information isn't the only motivation for sending this message, andthe logs will not contain the answers to all my questions.
12:54 < yashgaroth> AAV, and it's impossible to have a good idea what percent of cells are being transduced without an autopsy
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13:07 < FourFire> sent the message, I wonder what their response will be
13:07 < FourFire> I hope they actually are transhumanists...
13:08 < FourFire> now, to bug John kheir asking why I can't buy a liquid oxygen syringe for my backpack yet...
13:14 < docl> Liz is definitely transhumanist, based on her talks. not sure about the people she works with.
13:15 < docl> .tit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87OUb8TBwX0
13:15 < FourFire> docl, Yes I get that impression
13:15 < FourFire> I've seen talks
13:15 < docl> .title
13:15 < yoleaux> Liz Parrish speaks at People Unlimited on transcending the aging paradigm with gene therapy - YouTube
13:34 < FourFire> And i sent John Kheir a slightly passie aggressive message asking why I can't buy his oxygen-lipid gel product yet.
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13:46 < AdrianG> supposedly she's undergone her own gene therapy?
13:54 < xentrac> hard core
13:57 < AdrianG> so its just telomerase and follistatin-something.
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14:02 < AdrianG> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22585399
14:02 < AdrianG> interesting
14:11 < docl> .title
14:11 < yoleaux> Telomerase gene therapy in adult and old mice delays aging and increases longevity without increasing cancer. - PubMed - NCBI
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14:16 < kanzure> why do you guys act all surprise. read the logs.
14:16 < kanzure> sigh.
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14:20 < AdrianG> hard to keep current with everything.
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14:23 < kanzure> that's pretty false
14:23 < kanzure> did you even try?
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14:39 < andytoshi> heh, i get 800 emails a day with various rss news items, git commits, etc, and i still miss a lot of stuff
14:40 < andytoshi> even things that i'm pretty sure i subvocalized when they showed up on my screen
14:44 < kanzure> i used to read the wikipedia and twitter firehose. for fun.
14:57 < andytoshi> does anyone have experiene with the mifare desfire ev1 nfc chip?
14:58 < andytoshi> this is what vancouver's transit system uses for their "compass cards". they contain a bunch of personal info 3des-encrypted, and i wonder what the protocol looks like
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15:09 < docl> https://github.com/benbeezy/dollo interesting redesign of the reprap. most of the mechanical features are printable plastic.
15:10 < docl> pics here http://3dprint.com/63229/dollo-3d-printer-prints-itself/
15:13 < xentrac> 18 hours and <1kg plstic is a big improvement over Snappy
15:14 < xentrac> but I think Snappy has a much lower vitamin BoM cost
15:15 < xentrac> Dollo looks janky as hell though
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15:21 < Jenda`> DiabloD3: Ad. "sad-light" - friend of mine built one; the LEDs linked there cost 0.014 $/lm, you can get 20W 1250lm fluorescent lamp for less than $4 (0.003 $/lm). He had something like 20 of them for 25 klm output.
15:22 < xentrac> also the cited inverse square law is not valid for spatially extended sources of light, only for point sources
15:22 < xentrac> I was thinking that maye something like a phone booth with a mirrored inner surface would be ideal for fluorescent tube illumination
15:23 < Jenda`> he had it on a 1x2 meter frame, mounted above the bed
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15:29 < DiabloD3> Jenda`: well the problem is, T5 efficiency is surprisingly high
15:30 < DiabloD3> and easier to get already assembled mounts with good reflectors
15:30 < DiabloD3> like, good triphosphor T5s can reach like 15% efficiency
15:31 < DiabloD3> those cheap LEDs? not usefully higher.
15:36 < chris_99> did you see the HMI lights mentioned in http://meaningness.com/metablog/sad-light-lumens
15:38 < Jenda`> yes, that's the link he posted
15:38 < chris_99> ah
15:38 < docl> xentrac: I wonder if someone could adapt the $3 motors from this thing to the dollo http://reprap.org/wiki/ToyREP
15:39 < DiabloD3> chris_99: HMI arent as fficient AND
15:39 < DiabloD3> they blow the fuck up
15:39 < DiabloD3> all the time
15:39 < chris_99> as efficient as florescent tubes?
15:40 < DiabloD3> holywood loves the fuck out of HMI, that isnt the first time Ive heard of them
15:41 < chris_99> according to wiki they have the same/similar efficiency
15:41 < DiabloD3> they're a very specific brand of metal halide lamp
15:41 < DiabloD3> they CAN be up to 17%
15:41 < DiabloD3> that specific brand isnt
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15:44 < xentrac> is dude's concern for HMI toxicity well-founded?
15:48 < DiabloD3> xentrac: it blows up
15:48 < DiabloD3> they blow the fuck up
15:48 < DiabloD3> its like, a staple of holywood stories
15:48 < DiabloD3> like, remember the scene from indiana jones and the face melting nazis where
15:48 < DiabloD3> the lights blow up and the camera shorts out?
15:49 < xentrac> okay, but explosions are a matter for Lexan, I think
15:49 < xentrac> I mean we're not talking about an RPG here
15:49 < xentrac> but toxicity could be a bigger deal
15:49 < DiabloD3> speilberg told a story on a dvd extra I think
15:49 < xentrac> I'd think iodine would be relatively innocuous
15:50 < DiabloD3> where they understated how some of those lights blow up
15:50 < DiabloD3> xentrac: well, a) you need massive cooling for the lamp
15:50 < DiabloD3> and b) their housings are actually well built
15:53 < DiabloD3> so, lets go back about efficiency
15:53 < DiabloD3> 15% or less
15:53 < DiabloD3> for massive cost per lumen/watt
15:53 < DiabloD3> or literally walking into your local pot shot
15:53 < DiabloD3> get a 4 foot enclosure with 8 lamps
15:53 < DiabloD3> a good one with good reflectors and a good converter
15:54 < DiabloD3> and then get some good set of triphosphor T5 lamps
15:55 < DiabloD3> http://www.hmoonhydro.com/product_info.php?cPath=25_43&products_id=222
15:56 < DiabloD3> like thats pretty average pricing
15:58 < DiabloD3> put the blue one in that 16 lamp enclosure? thats 76k lumens
16:00 < DiabloD3> and those style of enclosures focus the light from the back of the bulb around to the front really well
16:00 < DiabloD3> his shitty little reflector isnt as good, and isnt as focused
16:01 < DiabloD3> so given that, this is 2.5 times more raw output, and like 3-3.5ish times more output that gets to you
16:02 < DiabloD3> well, 3 times ish, Im giving is shitty reflector not enough credit
16:05 < DiabloD3> lets try the 6 lamp one, lets say, sure, about the same real world output
16:06 < DiabloD3> $225 + $72 = $297
16:06 < DiabloD3> he paid over $400 to build his shit
16:07 < DiabloD3> $368 for the 8 lamp one, for 38k.
16:08 < DiabloD3> or about 13%.
16:08 < DiabloD3> efficacy
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16:11 < DiabloD3> and btw, you can mount them facing you instead of hanging from the cieling
16:12 < DiabloD3> people have built simple rigs that are just PVC pipes for like house water
16:12 < DiabloD3> just buy some T joints and some pipes in the right shape
16:12 < DiabloD3> and just hang it off them
16:14 < DiabloD3> xentrac: what I dont understand is
16:14 < DiabloD3> why he didnt just do that
16:15 < xentrac> beats me. maybe misapplication of the inverse square law
16:15 < DiabloD3> well like
16:15 < DiabloD3> already mass produced for multiple bulbs
16:15 < DiabloD3> has nice well focused reflectors for this (nice angle for sitting infront of it but not just blasted straight at you 100%)
16:16 < DiabloD3> the bulbs are cheap and easy to get a lot
16:17 < DiabloD3> and btw, re: bulb brands, the quantum badboy HOs are good bulbs, but they arent the only ones
16:17 < DiabloD3> they just need to be T5 HOs, not normals (do they even make normal ones anymore?) or VHO/XHO
16:17 < DiabloD3> VHO exists, more output per bulb, more watts per bulb
16:18 < DiabloD3> but the bulbs fail faster, the enclosures cost more per lumen, and efficiency goes down
16:18 < DiabloD3> theres no real market for them
16:19 < DiabloD3> like, in plant growing, if you're not getting enough light to the plants, lower your lights
16:19 < DiabloD3> or use more bulbs
16:20 < DiabloD3> spending more per bulb, per enclosure, getting less life, and spending more on power doesnt really work
16:20 < DiabloD3> also, T5s survive pretty high temps
16:20 < DiabloD3> LEDs aren't even sure if they like room temp
16:21 < DiabloD3> xentrac: btw, what WOULD be interesting with the bulbs he has
16:21 < DiabloD3> they're just circuit boards
16:22 < DiabloD3> nothing really magic there
16:22 < DiabloD3> so they could be unrolled but be left plugged into the ballast base
16:22 < DiabloD3> this making his whole design so much simpler
16:22 < DiabloD3> and he could throw a much larger much more powerful fan behind them
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16:23 < DiabloD3> (they have an internal fan)
16:24 < DiabloD3> (it aint that great of one, but its a standard like 40mm fan or w/e)
16:25 < DiabloD3> (maybe smaller)
16:25 < xentrac> they're not just circuit boards; they're primarily plumbing for coolant, I think
16:25 < DiabloD3> xentrac: well
16:25 < DiabloD3> they're circuit boards designed for that
16:25 < DiabloD3> but its like 10 circuit boards
16:25 < DiabloD3> plus another on the top to cap it
16:25 < DiabloD3> they use just normal shit to plug into the ballast
16:26 < xentrac> that's like saying that a car is a stereo system designed to roll around, ignoring the engine
16:26 < DiabloD3> taking them apart is trivial
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16:29 < DiabloD3> xentrac: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJNsK4BNSDs
16:30 < DiabloD3> xentrac: disassembly of the smaller version of it
16:30 < DiabloD3> the bigger one the dude from the article used has the fan, this one lacks it but retains the vent holes internally
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17:07 < erasmus> be nice if he could have plugged it in for us
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17:16 < DiabloD3> erasmus: that bright?
17:16 < DiabloD3> you'd just see a bright bulb-shaped blob
17:18 < erasmus> untrue
17:19 < erasmus> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c--5c3Egv4E
17:19 < erasmus> proof
17:22 < DiabloD3> AHAHAHAHAHA
17:22 < DiabloD3> its just a gigantic heatsink with a shitload of copper heatpipes
17:23 < DiabloD3> with a box around it
17:24 < DiabloD3> like
17:25 < DiabloD3> is that a fucking standard cpu heatsink?
17:25 < DiabloD3> it looks like it
17:26 < DiabloD3> it still looks like half the size of the one in my workstation though
17:29 < AdrianG> kanzure: this Liz Parrish person sounds very sketchy.
17:30 < AdrianG> somebody on reddit said it was Steorn-level suspicious, and it seems that way.
17:30 < AdrianG> does she have any history in biotech at all..?
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18:17 < DiabloD3> whos this liz chick?
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19:11 < AdrianG> ceo of bioviv
19:11 < AdrianG> bioviva. she's a nobody.
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19:13 < DiabloD3> I wish I was trolling, but... biowhovia?
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19:13 < AdrianG> idk. like i said, shes a nobody.
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19:25 < kanzure> http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-our-minds-live-forever/
19:25 < kanzure> oops nevermind. not much content.
19:25 < kanzure> it was from the nectome people.
19:37 < erasmus> who the hell wants to live forever?
19:38 < AdrianG> erasmus: you may have to exit this chat.
19:39 < erasmus> AdrianG I want you to die.
19:39 < erasmus> so I can take your brain and put it into a preservation canister
19:39 < erasmus> and keep it on my shelf and talk to it all day.
19:39 < AdrianG> i am going to live forever, erasmus, so that i can totally piss you off by not dying.
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19:39 < erasmus> lol
19:40 < erasmus> I'll feed you a daily supply of fresh meth.
19:41 < erasmus> kanzure is that the point of this channel? Do you also wish to live forever?
19:41 < erasmus> I just wish to enjoy my time here and not get cancer.
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20:11 < kanzure> wat
20:11 < kanzure> what part of nectome did you not understand? please read the logs.
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21:33 < jrayhawk> this channel is about the scrappy and adorable biological resistance front against the inevitable computronium takeover
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23:38 < maaku> jrayhawk: i thought this channel was for engineering the computronium takeover
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23:40 < jrayhawk> perhaps you meant to join a singularitarian channel instead of a transhumanist channel?
23:40 < jrayhawk> i am not really sure what i am doing here, either, TBH
23:40 < maaku> transhuman implies posthuman
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--- Log closed Mon Jan 25 00:00:14 2016