--- Log opened Mon Feb 01 00:00:20 2016
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03:33 < nmz787> ugh, I just spent like 6 hours or more trying to upgrade grbl on an arduino clone... key takeaway point, doing this (https://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/ArduinoISP)  does not allow you to burn a 'sketch', only the bootloader, after that, you have to switch over to using the rx and tx pins to program the sketch
03:47 < gnusha_> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/laser_etcher/commit/?id=e9f5221c nmz787: attachment upload >> http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/NEJE_Laser_Etcher/IMAG1624.jpg
03:51 < gnusha_> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/laser_etcher/commit/?id=5e340268 nmz787: attachment upload >> http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/NEJE_Laser_Etcher/
04:22 < gnusha_> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/laser_etcher/commit/?id=8c71a58a Nathan McCorkle: added images of back of circuit board >> http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/NEJE_Laser_Etcher/IMAG1625.jpg
04:23 < chris_99> nmz787, you ever played with PMTs out of interest?
04:30 < nmz787> nah
04:31 < nmz787> jrayhawk: idk but it doesn't seem like the git push I pushed made it fully to ikiwiki... cgit sees it though
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05:32 < abetusk> nmz787, you can reflash the bootloader if you like
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10:04 < delinquentme> hmmmm
10:04 < delinquentme> kanzure: anyone in here right now
10:04 < delinquentme> whos the dude i hate?
10:04 < delinquentme> ummmmm
10:04 < delinquentme> ParahSailn
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10:04 < delinquentme> not in here
10:04 < delinquentme> bolz
10:05 < FourFire> hello delinquentme
10:05 < delinquentme> hio four
10:05 < delinquentme> FourFire are you a chemist by any chance :D
10:05 < FourFire> you seem...drunk or something
10:06 < FourFire> delinquentme, less of a chemist than a biologist and less of either of those than a computer technician, atm
10:07 < delinquentme> got it
10:07 < FourFire> but more of a chemist than most people
10:07 < delinquentme> cool
10:08 < FourFire> I also have close contact with a synthesis company who do stuff "up to 1000 dalton"
10:09 < delinquentme> ahhh cool
10:09 < FourFire> Adittionally I know a student, post Chem masters Degree who is interested in transhumanisty ideas
10:09 < delinquentme> basically i need to know if all bong types can be simplified to " positions and attractions created with electrons "
10:09 < delinquentme> after some reading im pretty sure this is a thing
10:10 < FourFire> ah, yeah I'm not adequate a chemist enough to answer that question, sorry.
10:11 < xentrac_> bond types
10:11 < xentrac_> apparently I've been hanging out to much with pot smokers, because it took me a long time to realize that was a misspelling
10:12 < xentrac_> and although I'm not a chemist either, I'm pretty sure the answer is "yes"
10:13 < delinquentme> FourFire: is the masters chemist kid in here?
10:13 < delinquentme> xentrac_: appreciated
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10:13 < FourFire> nope, not sure if they irc, I'll have to spend some time chatting with them, I only met them last week or so
10:13 < xentrac_> too much
10:13 < FourFire> also, they are older than me...
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10:51 < TMA> delinquentme: from what I remember from high school chemistry classes regular bonds are pairs of electrons shared between atoms. double bonds are quartets shared, triple bonds sextets shared; covalent bonds are way too tricky to explain to high school students; the bonds in the benzene ring (aromatic ring) is somewhat special as there are three electrons per bond totalling 18 for the six bonds; polycyclic aromatic stuff is too dificult to explain to high scho
10:53 < TMA> delinquentme: then there is a hydrogen "bond" between water molecules, where the hydrogen of one is attracted to the electron cloud of oxygen of the other -- this explains why water is liquid while H2S is not liquid, though the latter is heavier -- these bonds are not bonds at all
10:56 < TMA> delinquentme: the underlying quantum physics is way more complex. ;; in summary (tl;dr): most chemical bonds are of the kind you described. the others are way too complex for a layperson to grasp
11:01 < xentrac_> well, but all of those are positions and attractions created with electrons
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11:04 < delinquentme> bingo
11:05 < TMA> beware, the memories are more than 15 years old; I have never encountered chemistry since
11:06 < xentrac_> you left out ionic bonds, which are simlilar to hydrogen bonds, and van der Waals bonds
11:06 < xentrac_> which are also positions and attractions created with electrons
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11:11 <@kanzure> most of chemistry can be described by a giant database of graph transformations
11:11 <@kanzure> naturally, this database is completely proprietary and you don't have access
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11:16 < delinquentme> https://www.collaborativedrug.com/
11:16 < delinquentme> kanzure: ^ they've got a bunch im sure
11:16 < delinquentme> also.  libgen is down
11:16 < delinquentme> someone needs to commercialize that shit
11:21 < xentrac_> or decentralize it
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11:31 < FourFire> delinquentme, ok yeah I thought you mean Bong
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11:32 < delinquentme> Bong?
11:32 < FourFire> yeah bond types are generalizable, but the energy required to break them has variation for pretty much every permutation of different molecules
11:32 < delinquentme> ^
11:33 < delinquentme> also I found another mechanical synthesis paper
11:33 < FourFire> so like, Carbon Oxygen in CO² is different to Carbon Oxygen in Gluclose
11:33 < FourFire> even when both are a double bond
11:34 < FourFire> delinquentme, I can try and see if I have some sources on specific energies if that's relevant
11:35 < delinquentme> I think i just need additional substantiation that mechanical forces can distort electron clouds so that atoms can be pushed into conformation
11:35 < delinquentme> i have 2 papers currently
11:35 < delinquentme> ( reading the second one )
11:35 < FourFire> delinquentme, https://web.archive.org/web/20100625121758/http://www.jhu.edu/chem/lectka/Extras.html
11:35 < FourFire> only IA now sadly, but I think everything is there
11:36 < delinquentme> http://foundry.lbl.gov/
11:36 < delinquentme> thinking ill be submitting a proposal to these guys
11:55 < fenn> http://foundry.lbl.gov/events/seminar-20151124.html The Rosetta Disk, developed at The Long Now Foundation, is a microscopic archive designed to last for thousands of years. The 7 cm diameter disk is made of nickel, created by electroplating a silicon master etched with a FIB.
11:56 < chris_99> cool!
11:57 < fenn> too bad they chose a religious text instead of something aliens might possibly be able to interpret
11:57 < fenn> or you know, something useful
11:58 < chris_99> wheres it say religious text?
11:59 < chris_99> oh yeah, got it - https://archive.org/details/rosettaproject
12:00 < xentrac_> fenn: they only started with the religious text, because that's what they have the most translations of.  the bulk of the Rosetta texts are not genesis
12:00 < fenn> yeah there is a bunch of linguistic commentary in english
12:00 < xentrac_> mostly in English, yes
12:01 < chris_99> http://www.mdisc.com/ is interesting too
12:01 < fenn> there's a lot of whitespace
12:07 < fenn> 640GB ought to be enough for anybody
12:08 < fenn> "A disc with data layer composed of rock-like materials."
12:09 < xentrac_> sounds like a minimal but not sufficient standard
12:09 < xentrac_> I mean you don't want it to be olivine!
12:09 < xentrac_> or obviously halite
12:10 < fenn> 25GB * 15 qty for $67 is not bad
12:10 < fenn> 179/TB
12:11 < chris_99> i like the idea of the rosetta one, as you can read with a microscope, that seems really cool
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12:37 < fenn> supposedly the data layer is "glassy carbon" whatever that means
12:38 < fenn> .title http://www.google.com/patents/US8389095
12:38 < yoleaux> Patent US8389095 - Optical data storage media containing substantially inert low melting ... - Google Patents
12:38 < chris_99> maybe it's diamond heh
12:39 <@kanzure> could someone help this person out https://github.com/kanzure/pdfparanoia/issues/48
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12:40 < chris_99> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glassy_carbon
12:47 < fenn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-carbon  discovered in 2015, ferromagnetic and harder than diamond
12:48 < fenn> i'll wait for reproducibility confirmation before getting excited
12:53 < chris_99> sounds very interesting
12:53 < delinquentme> fenn: is this the stuff where its carbon but with no discernable crystaline structure?
12:53 < delinquentme> its just lik a smoosh
12:54 < fenn> glassy carbon is different from amorphous carbon; it only has sp2 orbitals
13:05 <@kanzure> delinquentme: you should tell fenn about your fleet of microscopes
13:05 <@kanzure> he does not know
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13:10 < delinquentme> fenn: me has STMs which aer taking scans
13:10 < delinquentme> pics or GTFO you say?
13:10 < delinquentme> gladly
13:10 < delinquentme> what emaulz
13:22 < cpopell6> delinquentme : are you in touch with azonenberg?
13:24 < delinquentme> cpopell6:I ma
13:24 < delinquentme> hes SUPER helpful
13:25 < cpopell6> delinquentme : I got to hang out in his lab a couple times
13:25 < delinquentme> he was the one who confirmed the newstons cradle behavior of electron energy conveyance
13:25 < delinquentme> hes just like endlessly helpful . great dude.
13:25 < delinquentme> and hes got a solid lab setup at his place too
13:26 < cpopell6> yep
13:27 <@kanzure> cpopell6: did you know that i met his roommate (john) back in 2007? it was before he met azonenberg.
13:27 < delinquentme> OK so
13:27 <@kanzure> apparently he was the one that convinced azonenberg to do all the decapping work.
13:27 < cpopell6> kanzure : nope. I think in 07 zonenberg and I didn't know each other, that didn't come til later
13:27 < delinquentme> question on the index above. Those are the facilities at the molecular foundry
13:27 < cpopell6> Marc Chevrette I met via college political club stuff :P
13:27 < delinquentme> which would be best suited to the work of mechanoligation that im after?
13:28 <@kanzure> probably you need to do femtoliter water bubbles with single molecules inside of the bubbles
13:28 <@kanzure> and then move the bubbles into position for chemical reactions
13:29 <@kanzure> dunno if femtoliter water bubbles are possible
13:29 <@kanzure> plus, water causes side reactions here
13:29 < delinquentme> "Organic and Macromolecular Synthesis Facility" or "Biological Nanostructures Facility" ... and possible the "Nanofabrication Facility" .. which works on "biological nanosystems"
13:29 <@kanzure> so... not water.
13:29 < delinquentme> kanzure:all of the experiments i've seen arent in solution
13:30 < delinquentme> hence they'd not be using STM ... unless its like oil immersion STM
13:31 < delinquentme> also i read 3 research papers over the last 24 hours
13:31 < delinquentme> yay
13:31 < delinquentme> IDK if this is what I want to be doing w my life though
13:31 < delinquentme> more engineering
13:31 < delinquentme> less sitting and reading
13:35 < cpopell6> Hmmmm
13:35 < cpopell6> I can't remember
13:35 < cpopell6> I think we were doing femtoliter bubbles in my research
13:35 < cpopell6> well, I guess it wasn't a bubble, it was a droplet
13:47 < delinquentme> kanzure: cpopell6 thats the scale that you  have to like mechanically FLING the droplet out of its well no?
13:47 < delinquentme> how do that separation?
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13:47 < delinquentme> also. FUCKING capillary action
13:48 < delinquentme> kanzure: cpopell6 fenn nmz787 did i mention how much i fucking HATED capillary action when we were doing demonpore shit?
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13:48 < delinquentme> i feel like thats some method for getting TINY fucking volumes of liquid though
13:49 < cpopell6> delinquentme : electrohydrodynamic ink-jet printing
13:50 < cpopell6> with low-wick titanium nozzles
13:51 < cpopell6> delinquentme : I can dig up my thesis if you want
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13:56 < delinquentme> cpopell6: nah thats sufficient of a method for me :D
13:56 < cpopell6> delinquentme : I did shape modeling. normal electrohydrodynamic printing will give you bubbles on rebound in certain fluid regimes, but you won't get it in the femtoliter regime--
13:56 < cpopell6> delinquentme : surface energy is something like a hard times larger than kinetic energy
13:57 < delinquentme> at that scale absolutely
13:57 < cpopell6> my profs made me prove it to them
13:57 < cpopell6> because they were dicks
13:57 < cpopell6> >_>
13:57 < delinquentme> something about #dominantForcesAtGivenScales
13:57 < cpopell6> 'Are you really going to make me model vortex forces here?'
13:57 < delinquentme> because they could
13:57 < delinquentme> lol
13:57 < cpopell6> *3 months later*
13:57 < cpopell6> 'Why did you waste time on this?'
13:57 < delinquentme> KEK
13:57 < cpopell6> 'You told me to.'
13:58 < cpopell6> 'Why didn't you tell us <DOMINANT FORCES>'
13:58  * delinquentme comforts cpopell6
13:58 < cpopell6> 'I did'
13:58 < cpopell6> 'Well, we can't be expected to listen to what you have to say'
13:58 < delinquentme> HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
13:58 < cpopell6> it's okay, I almost got them fired for being shitheads >_>
13:58 < delinquentme> fucking lold
13:58 < cpopell6> other story: they miss dozens of meetings over 2 years--minimal apology
13:59 < cpopell6> I miss one, they make me be on campus 9-5 the rest of my research time there to be available at their leisure, never take advantage
13:59 < cpopell6> (I start skipping out again after 2 months)
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14:05 < delinquentme> cpopell6: fuck man I want to like buy you a cheesecake or something hahaha
14:05 < delinquentme> thats such fucking bullshit
14:05 < delinquentme> it also makes me happy I didnt take that path
14:05 < cpopell6> delinquentme : meh. I got out with a masters degree in a field I don't do :P
14:05 < delinquentme> not all  bad :D
14:05 < cpopell6> but it's a prestige degree so now I can do whatever I want degree wise (shut up kanzure) and they don't care because they see 'MS from RPI' on it
14:05 < delinquentme> still though. cheesecake is delicious.
14:06 < cpopell6> yes it is
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14:06 < cpopell6> delinquentme : probably moving out to the west coast this late fall btw
14:06 < delinquentme> ^^
14:06 < delinquentme> lol best !!!!
14:06 < delinquentme> NICEE
14:06 < delinquentme> norcal? socal?
14:06 < delinquentme> i feel like fenn is still out here and hasnt fucking checkd out my stuff
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14:06 < cpopell6> nah, Seattle
14:06 < delinquentme> OOOOO
14:06 < delinquentme> would love friends in the rainy haze
14:07 < cpopell6> I grew up in SoCal and I don't want to deal with NorCal
14:07 < cpopell6> Seattle has decent salaries and lower property prices
14:07 < cpopell6> plus Sami (gf) wants to go work at Microsoft
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14:10 < delinquentme> i love salamis
14:10 < delinquentme> and low property prices
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14:23 < delinquentme> Jawmare: kanzure says you're a bad ass chemist
14:23 < delinquentme> What are your thoughts on the plausibility of ligating long chains of DNA mechanically ? IE without ligase .
14:25 < Jawmare> you mean with organometallic catalysts?
14:26 < Jawmare> It is plausible, yes
14:26 < delinquentme> Jawmare: there are no catalysts involved
14:26 < Jawmare> but sometimes nature does things better than us
14:27 < delinquentme> unless catalysts means some organic / inorganic molecule pair
14:27 < Jawmare> oh I didn't saw mechanically
14:28 < delinquentme> true.  Yeah Im about to submit the first round of research backing to someone at the Molecular Foundry to see what they think on the plausibiliyt
14:28 < delinquentme> ya.
14:28 < delinquentme> grabbing DNA and shoving it into another piece of DNA
14:28 < delinquentme> distorting / reforming the electron clouds to create the covalent bonds on the sugar phosphate backbone
14:29 < delinquentme> i've got 2 papers which demonstrate the viability of mechanical bond breaking / making in inorganics
14:29 < Jawmare> Yes. it is plausible
14:29 < delinquentme> cool
14:29 < Jawmare> but is it financially viable? I would say no
14:30 < Jawmare> or I don't think you can do it better than how nature does it
14:31 < delinquentme> Jawmare: the application is in sourcing ~2kbp chains from current denovo providers
14:31 < delinquentme> and pushing those into linear chains
14:31 < delinquentme> to be determined: if we can get useful molar weights of the DNA
14:31 < delinquentme> high fi polymerase will probaby be a big part of the amplification
14:32 < delinquentme> but right now the market shows that ~2kbp is around what can easily be outsourced
14:33 < delinquentme> and then theres an upper limit on the market size of 1) whats the biggest commerical genome of interest and 2) replication fidelity invivo vrs in vitro ( ecoli or yeast )
14:33 < delinquentme> the commercial DNA denovo market is ~2billion right now
14:33 < Jawmare> I don't really know that much about the biotech side
14:33 < delinquentme> yeah im just kinda practicing my pitch
14:34 < delinquentme> we also have icecream sandwitches
14:34 < Jawmare> once you talk about money
14:34 < Jawmare> their eyes light up
14:36 < delinquentme> $$$$
14:36 < delinquentme> I mean we both want financially stable businesses :D
14:40 < xentrac_> VCs don't
14:42 < xentrac_> I don't know Molecular Foundry
14:42 < delinquentme> http://foundry.lbl.gov/facilities/index.html
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16:15 < nmz787_i> fenn: FWIW I work part-time at the company that fabricated that rosetta disc... I actually have a similar piece at home (except it is a buddhist knot, where the knot is actually some sanskrit text)
16:15 < nmz787_i> the ones I have were unsealed... so they will get scratched easily
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16:19 < xentrac_> they won't oxidize, though, will they?
16:20 < nmz787_i> it's gold, so shouldn't
16:21 < nmz787_i> also pretty much unreadable without differential interference contrast microscopy
16:21 < nmz787_i> (you can see the knot feature)
16:21 < nmz787_i> actually maybe the features are large enough to see without DIC
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16:29 < xentrac_> why don't they etch the pits deep enough to get iridescent color contrast?
16:29 < xentrac_> Like 300nm deep should give you deep blue, right?
16:30 < nmz787_i> not sure, probably better to read the papers/press-releases that longnow has put out
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16:31 < xentrac_> yeah, sorry
16:31 < xentrac_> I guess 150nm
16:31 < nmz787_i> kanzure: jrayhawk  any idea why this commit isn't reflected in ikiwiki? http://diyhpl.us/cgit/laser_etcher/commit/?id=8c71a58a3a54ee631bdb155fdf80f22ce7cd254e
16:31 < nmz787_i> xentrac_: probably something with hardiness, sputter rate, something like that
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16:52 < jrayhawk> [Mon Feb 01 03:47:34 2016] [error] [client 50.39.166.238] Aborting commit due to empty commit message., referer: https://secure.diyhpl.us/write/laser_etcher/ikiwiki.cgi?page=NEJE_Laser_Etcher&from=index&do=create
16:52 < jrayhawk> how odd
16:56 < jrayhawk> well, I can confirm this is at least totally Ikiwiki's fault.
16:58 < nmz787_i> yay!
16:58 < nmz787_i> (in that it isn't apparently MY fault)
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17:19 < Aurelius_Home> I have a friend looking for a job in the SF area. Background is a code school type thing. She's a fast learner.
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17:55 < gnusha_> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/laser_etcher/commit/?id=3cc209d3 laser_etcher: Commit failed ikiwiki.cgi changes >> http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/index/
17:55 < gnusha_> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/laser_etcher/commit/?id=4edf3c60 laser_etcher: Merge branch 'master' of /srv/git/laser_etcher >> http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/NEJE_Laser_Etcher/
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17:56 <@kanzure> wha
17:56 < jrayhawk> nmz787_i: I just upgraded Ikiwiki. Let me know if the problem recurs.
18:00 < nmz787_i> .title http://hackaday.com/2016/02/01/3d-printing-fumes-new-science/
18:00 < yoleaux> New Research Sheds Light on 3D Printing Fumes | Hackaday
18:00 < nmz787_i> jrayhawk: Thanks! the wiki page looks like it got the message now!
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20:37 < nmz787_i> diybio I guess: http://hackaday.com/2016/02/01/build-your-swarm-control-cockroaches-for-under-30/
20:37 < nmz787_i> .title
20:37 < yoleaux> Build Your Swarm: Control Cockroaches for Under $30! | Hackaday
20:39 < Jawmare> wowwww
20:39 < Jawmare> wow
20:39 < Jawmare> thats so cool
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20:41 < nmz787_i> you know it is not really new?
20:41 < nmz787_i> as they mention, backyard brains did this (openly) and even sold a kit years ago
20:42 < Jawmare> no i dont
20:42 < nmz787_i> https://backyardbrains.com/products/roboroach
20:42 < nmz787_i> .title
20:42 < yoleaux> The Roboroach
20:42 < nmz787_i> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/backyardbrains/the-roboroach-control-a-living-insect-from-your-sm
20:43 < nmz787_i> I am even a contributor on their paper, thanks to a kickstarter (I think) donation: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/backyardbrains/the-roboroach-control-a-living-insect-from-your-sm
20:43 < nmz787_i> .title
20:43 < yoleaux> The RoboRoach: Control a living insect from your smartphone! by Backyard Brains —Kickstarter
20:43 < nmz787_i> (well maybe not a contributor, but I was thanked or something)
20:43 < nmz787_i> "acknowledged"
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22:02 <@kanzure> since when is a sarcasmiculum not a cellular organelle? what happened to it?
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--- Log closed Tue Feb 02 00:00:21 2016