--- Log opened Thu Mar 17 00:00:02 2016
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00:25 < FourFire> What is yashgaroth's project?
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06:16 < kanzure> FourFire: his project is something about unifying various biological eschatological contexts
06:18 < JayDugger> Good morning.
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06:37 < kanzure> eudoxia: sup
06:37 < eudoxia> hi
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06:59 < kanzure> .title http://arxiv.org/abs/1603.03720
06:59 < yoleaux> [1603.03720] Unexpected biases in the distribution of consecutive primes
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07:30 < kanzure> "Stimulation-based control of dynamic brain networks" http://arxiv.org/pdf/1601.00987.pdf
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07:52 < kanzure> "... studies in which significant portions (i.e.,  50%) of maternal rat cortical tissue were removed showed that severe parenting disturbances emerged, including the absence of or limited pup retrieval, licking/grooming, and nest building (e.g., Beach, 1937; Davis, 1939; Stone, 1938), but that other behaviors, such as mating, were spared (e.g., Davis, 1939)."
07:53 < kanzure> "Studies of primates have reported similar findings. For instance, Franzen and Myers (1973) found that removal of PFC or anterior temporal cortex in Rhesus monkeys led to poorer parenting (e.g., less holding, cuddling, and infant retrieval from threat) and social deficits (e.g., increased aggression, and loss of grooming behaviors and dominance status) compared with controls and to those subjects wherein the ACC was removed (also see ...
07:53 < kanzure> ... Myers, Swett, & Miller, 1973)."
07:54 < archels> "brain involved in thinking"
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08:00 < kanzure> archels: apparently not, though... 50%?
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08:28 < kanzure> maaku: you should consider talking with pmetzger more regularly because of his nanotech stuff. i think he was shooed out of this channel in 2010 (i thought it was because i told him to go fuck himself, but it turns out this is not the case)- http://gnusha.org/logs/2010-07-27.log
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09:05 < pasky> gnusha is a person?
09:07 < FourFire> kanzure, you told him to "go away" and he was easily offended/scared of pissing off obviously important people
09:08 < FourFire> pasky, obviously gnusha == kanzure
09:17 < maaku> kanzure he's been AWOL since? What was he working on?
09:23 < kanzure> maaku: he moderates the cryptography mailing list, he seems to still be alive, has been sending emails regularly and such
09:23 < kanzure> pasky: gnusha is not a person
09:23 < kanzure> FourFire: pmetzger considers himself much older and more important than me. so that's not a good explanation for why he left.
09:26 < cluckj> older + wiser = respects other peoples' wishes
09:26 < cluckj> gnusha said "go away"
09:28 < maaku> He does nanotech work though?
09:32 < pasky> FourFire: that's what i thought, i just confused myself :)
09:32 < pasky> okay
09:33 < FourFire> kanzure, maybe invite him back?
09:33 < kanzure> maaku: he is a very old school extropian/cypherpunk.
09:33 < kanzure> FourFire: i have been inviting him back for years but he refuses because "you told me to fuck off".
09:34 < kanzure> maaku: https://www.linkedin.com/in/perry-metzger-15971a4
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09:39 < kanzure> "You asked me to "go away" some months ago as I recall. I have done my best not to plague you since. It appears you wish to strike up a conversation with me again. Might I ask why?"
09:40 < kanzure> hrm i'll send another email
09:41 < FourFire> Jawmare, what are you planning to do with the gum?
09:41 < FourFire> I can get about the same amount for about three times the price, I think, let me check
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10:15 < docl> vaping nicotine is super cheap, if you don't care about it being in gum form.
10:19 < docl> I like the idea of a Sprengel pump as part of a self replicating toolkit, due to its simplicity.
10:20 < docl> However, mercury can be toxic / has hysteria around it, so I've been considering replacements.
10:20 < maaku> kanzure tell him you are / were an immature punk with no people skills and he's welcome to be here
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10:24 < docl> Something like gallium or indium could work. But given the relative cost, and the fact that they are less dense than mercury, I'm leaning towards a lead based solder alloy. The system would need to be kept warm, but that seems like a modest complexity penalty.
10:24 < JayDugger> .wik Sprengel pump
10:24 < yoleaux> "Sprengel pump" — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprengel_pump
10:35 < docl> I believe the way it works is that the mercury drops attain greater than one atmosphere of pressure when they fall >760 millimeters. Lighter metals would have to fall further to get a similar effect.
10:41 < JayDugger> Hah. Foc.us has a new sponge holders and headband for their transcranial electrical stimulator.
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10:41 < JayDugger> Looks nice, might even make tACS work while sleeping.
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10:46 < kanzure> .title http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2016/q1/645
10:46 < yoleaux> oss-sec: server and client side remote code execution through a buffer overflow in all git versions before 2.7.1 (unpublished ᴄᴠᴇ-2016-2324 and ᴄᴠᴇ‑2016‑2315)
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11:07 < fenn> ouch
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12:01 < Jawmare> FourFire, First day of using Nicotine gum (previously non smoker) : a little bit improvement of focus and mood?
12:02 < FourFire> ok, how much %?
12:03 < Jawmare> I'd say 20-30%
12:03 < FourFire> mood? or focus?
12:04 < Jawmare> both
12:05 < FourFire> hmm, Interested in longterm effects once you reach acclimitization
12:06 < pasky> i admire that you can measure that; my daily swings of focus+mood are easily 50% (for focus, maybe even >75%)
12:06 < FourFire> I'm wondering what frequency of dosage for different noots are permissable/possible while avoiding decay in effacy
12:08 < Jawmare> pasky, like a slight but notable effect...
12:08 < Jawmare> noticable
12:09 < Jawmare> or maybe I am not using it properly
12:10 < pasky> if you see what you describe as "a little bit" now, I'd bet you couldn't statistically distinguish it from placebo in a 14-day trial
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12:11 < Jawmare> I dunno man
12:11 < kanzure> "I am almost solely responsible for discovering a number of computing concepts, which is what makes me so good at DevOps. When people ask for my business card I simply write “DevOps” on something and give it to them."
12:14 < Jawmare> in retrospec I probably chewed too much
12:22 < kanzure> http://qz.com/641738/this-rocket-executive-pissed-off-everyone-in-space-and-lost-his-job-the-next-day/
12:23 < kanzure> "Partial rocket re-use using mid-air recovery" (helicopters) http://www.ulalaunch.com/uploads/docs/Published_Papers/Evolution/PartialRocketReuseUsingMidAirRecovery20087874.pdf
12:27 < maaku> pasky that's the first thing to nail down -- eliminating variance. (I'm still on this step though)
12:29 < maaku> kanzure I saw that play out. An important lesson for anyone doing anything public facing...
12:30 < kanzure> helicopter recovery plan seems to suck because martian helicopters don't exist yet
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13:57 < fenn> tyranny by political correctness
13:57 < fenn> everything tobey said was true, but apparently talking about it is not allowed
13:57 < fenn> re "this rocket executive pissed off everyone"
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15:02 < kanzure> jollybard: welcome back
15:03 < jollybard> just lurkin'
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15:32 < Sishio> literally none of that was about political correctness
15:33 < Sishio> He was made to resign because he embarrassed the company
15:36 < kanzure> Sishio: companies have internal politics
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15:38 < Sishio> Well, yes, but he wasn't fired over office politics.
15:39 < Sishio> He was fired because he damaged the company's reputation and potential business.
15:39 < kanzure> don't you think being uncompetitive would be more damaging? :)
15:40 < Sishio> what.
15:41 < Sishio> Could you explain how bragging about company business strategy to college kids is competitive
15:49 < kanzure> he was bragging? i thought he was complaining about his company being ineffective?
15:53 < Sishio> Brett Tobey, an aerospace industry veteran who worked at Lockheed Martin for 32 years before joining the space launch company United Launch Alliance in 2015, was visiting his alma mater to talk to engineering students (pdf). He spoke about his efforts to help the company, a joint venture of Lockheed and Boeing, cut costs in response to the challenge from SpaceX.
15:53 < Sishio> But his candid description of ULA’s business, while no doubt educational, also proved likely to upset the company’s important relationship with everyone from contractors to competitors to their number one client, the US government. After an attendee at the seminar posted a recording of the audio on line, Tobey stepped down.
15:54 < Sishio> not really.
15:54 < Sishio> He was being an idiot
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16:42 < maaku> Sishio: i think the summary is not complete
16:43 < maaku> Sishio: he also e.g. made fun of SpaceX for doing uneconomical things like putting extra fuel in the booster so it can return to earth
16:43 < maaku> as if he didn't realize that fuel costs pennies compared to the millions that go into each booster
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17:16 < Sishio> Yeah, but that's still not an issue of political correctness
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17:16 < Sishio> He didn't make some socially insensitive faux pas
17:17 < Sishio> He just made his company look bad
17:17 < Sishio> And himself
17:27 < kanzure> https://twitter.com/mattblaze/status/710582837498486784
17:28 < kanzure> for some reason matt blaze came up a few hours ago when i was stalking pmetzger (but also when i was stalking "ed_snowden@lavabit.com")
17:28 < kanzure> i guess this makes sense because of his focus on cryptography. so it makes sense he would work with people (such as matt blaze) also interested in security.
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21:20 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXGMDdJ06HQ
21:20 < yoleaux> Human Anatomy Dissection 15 (part 1 of 2) Brain - YouTube
21:21 < kanzure> at 9m 10sec finally freed up the brain
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21:25 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeObK9CeCaM
21:25 < yoleaux> Human Anatomy Dissection 15 (part 2 of 2) Brain - YouTube
21:27 < kanzure> at 2min he pops out the brain
21:40 < maaku> https://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/4a4n13/eliezer_yudkowsky_on_alphago/d140ipw
21:48 < kanzure> maaku: fenn has been trying to convince a friend against singularity-apocalypsism and has so far not been successful (eliezer camp)
21:49 < kanzure> maaku: and i don't think that goertzel's stuff has been effective at convincing any of them of anything at all
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21:58 < kanzure> maaku: i'm also not entirely convinced of the relevancy of friendliness in your post. who cares whether it is friendly? there's no proof that humans are friendly but we still let them hang out on this planet.
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22:06 < kanzure> "BioSpaun: A large-scale behaving brain model with complex neurons" http://arxiv.org/pdf/1602.05220v1.pdf
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22:08 < jollybard> "It would quite likely be sufficient to program an embodied AGI with drives somewhat similar to humans" Yeah, good luck with that.
22:09 < kanzure> http://nengo.ca/build-a-brain/spaunvideos
22:09 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNnMhF7rnYo
22:09 < yoleaux> Spaun - Copy drawing - YouTube
22:14 < kanzure> https://github.com/nengo/nengo_detailed_neurons "Enable Nengo to use neuron models simulated in NEURON."
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22:20 < kanzure> https://github.com/nengo/nengo_detailed_neurons/blob/5acd10520328afffa598984340b7b37f18ea0ddd/models/bahr2.hoc
22:20 < kanzure>     // Bahl A, Stemmler MB, Herz AV, Roth A (2012)
22:20 < kanzure>     // Automated optimization of a reduced layer 5 pyramidal cell model based on
22:20 < kanzure>     // experimental data. J Neurosci Methods 210:22-34
22:25 < kanzure> this seems quite similar to a model from randall oreilly
22:25 < kanzure> there was also another python implementation floating around somewhere (mentioned in hplusroadmap logs) like pynn or something.... not sure what it was called.
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23:16 < JayDugger> fenn, you have it right with "everything tobey said was true", but go read up the history of ULA, and then read about the history of bribery at Boeing and Lockheed.
23:18 < JayDugger> I don't mean to imply SpaceX actually bribed anyone. Hearing big aerospace complain about getting favorable laws passed reminds me of <insert funny hypocrisy here>.
23:19 < JayDugger> Need denser air for Martian helicopters. All the more reason to fast-terraform that wasteland.
23:35 < FourFire> why helicopters and not dirigibles?
23:36 < JayDugger> Lockheed makes more helicopters than planes.
23:36 < FourFire> blimps seem like less effort tbh, though they require more production capacity per vehicle they don't neccesarily require you to meaningfully alter a whole planet
23:36 < JayDugger> Sorry, LM makes more helicopters than blimps.
23:36 < JayDugger> Oh, on Mars?
23:36 < FourFire> Y
23:37 < JayDugger> Sorry. Blimps would probably take less effort to make than a helicopter, judging by their invention dates. Let's defer this until we arrive on Mars.
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--- Log closed Fri Mar 18 00:00:03 2016