--- Log opened Sat May 28 00:00:13 2016 00:05 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@212.97.0.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:16 < FourFire> I just had a dream about Kanzure: went and visited his lair, he had minions, and used Autistic Savants to do Science, for some reason (my dream version of him) was trying to covince me that I'm just way too lazy, not stupid, like I actually think I am, and could have had everything he has (in the dream) by now 00:17 < FourFire> I'm going to dig p those forums for large scale biological systems simulation construction now... 00:18 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@195.114.249.66] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:29 < abetusk> nmz787, seems a little roundabout to go from 3d polygon geometry to raster back to 2d polygons 00:50 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zloidozicjmdafvy] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 01:37 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@195.114.249.66] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:54 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@195.114.251.76] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:04 -!- nildicit [~nildicit@unaffiliated/nildicit] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:06 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:08 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:08 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@195.114.251.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:21 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@212.241.8.69] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:25 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@212.241.8.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:32 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:38 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@185.66.252.107] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:42 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:43 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@185.66.252.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:50 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:53 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:56 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@212.241.14.224] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:56 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-leauqxmefsdywguz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:11 -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-178-000-182-226.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:17 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@212.241.14.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:31 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@195.114.247.56] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:35 < maaku> FourFire: your dream sounds accurate. get to work 03:44 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@195.114.247.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:53 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:54 -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:57 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@185.66.252.100] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:05 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:08 -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-178-000-182-226.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:08 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:09 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@185.66.252.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:23 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@195.114.248.104] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:23 < kanzure> i was talking with someone the other day who was concerned about brain emulation and infinite torture regress stuff 04:24 < kanzure> i think that even if there's enough computational capacity to support that much torture and enslavery, that similar amounts of computational capacity can be used for things that- if you believe in conservation of morality- which could "even things out" i guess. 04:25 < kanzure> e.g. while mass enslavement is probably ungood, you can at least get cool things like endless backups and endless spur-of-the-moment parallelization of yourself or certain groups or crowds towards productive pursuits 04:26 < kanzure> i.o.w the claim is that the benefits might outweigh the negatives of having lots of virtualized torture by sadistic assholes 04:28 < kanzure> and also, that in a singularity scenario with lots of acceleration per unit time, you could also argue that individuals who spend all their computational capacity torturing lots of virtualizations will move less slowly overall compared to folks who use their capacities for other more productive pursuits. 04:28 < kanzure> (especially if computation is not costless) 04:34 < kanzure> with large-scale comparative neuroanatomy (connectomics scanning) we should scan multiple mammalian brains from different species and then factor out the differences because the baseline cognitive ability for most animals is actually fairly high and an interesting starting point. and the differences are probably irrelevant. 04:35 < kanzure> we need a name for connectomics scanning that also includes lots of cycles of antibody labeling + scan + wash. otherwise people are always going to assume folks are talking about connections-only and axons/dendrites/synapses. and even with antibody-labeling i guess folks like russell hanson will be left out re: his synaptic resolution scanning and labeling of receptors/channels. 04:37 < kanzure> for prepared brain slices that have been vitrified and prepared for antibody labeling (or other labeling methods) we should have a standard slice container format that holds the material and also standard physical interconnections for introducing liquids and introducing this kind of standardization can also help with machine design so that you know what the sample specs are. e.g. probably some sort of cartridge format. i would hate to ... 04:38 < kanzure> ... discover that all the connectomics work is using custom physical handling of slices that turns out to be different for each project. what a disaster. 04:41 < kanzure> i wonder if you could do casting of individual slices of neural tissue 04:41 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@195.114.248.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:44 < kanzure> above when i say "scan multiple mammalian brains from different species" i'm thinking at least 10,000 .. from looking at comparative neuroanatomy literature i'm not convinced that people are doing broad analyses or anything between species or members between multiple species.. in fact it's a little strange that "sequence a thousand human genomes" happened long before low-resolution comparative neuroanatomy since brains are much more ... 04:44 < kanzure> ... physically accessible than DNA. shouldn't folks have looked at this years ago? 04:45 < kanzure> (perhaps everyone was discouraged that structural neuroanatomy would tell us anything between multiple species. and that's a fair assumption i guess. but it doesn't seem like a sufficient reason to not bother.) 04:49 < kanzure> i wonder how hard it is to exert selection pressures on organoids or neural tissue cultures. i assume the problem here is mostly related to reproduction and getting a full pipeline going for creating a new culture from a different/next genome. if this was solved then the microelectrode array neural tissue cultures could be much more rapidly developed to do interesting things. my guess is that unfortunately this process requires growing ... 04:49 < kanzure> ... mice from embryos for multiple weeks and then harvesting and making a tissue culture, which is a lot of ugh and long iteration time. ouch.. 04:50 < kanzure> oh i guess you could do cell transformation things and just electorporate the hell out of neural stem cells in culture... yeah why didn't berger do that. 04:53 < kanzure> anyway the more interesting first thing to select for would be higher neuron resistance to surviving in cell culture. followed by the things that marblestone should have written about in his thesis regarding biocompatibility and other problems of neural interfacing and anything that complicates the tasks of researchers too much (to be fair i think he did write about that, i just don't have reading material in front of me at the moment to ... 04:53 < kanzure> ... confirm). 04:59 < kanzure> re: repairing bad brain scan data for connectomics from yesterday, i can't tell if i sufficiently mentioned that there should be evolutionary search (or random search or other methods) starting from brain scan results. you can also exert selection pressures in simulation to get the scan results to do more interesting things. this would be helpful in the event that you scan brains into computers and then they do almost nothing interesting ... 04:59 < kanzure> ... when emulated. there may be nearby things in design space that suck significantly less. it might also be the case that trivial graph analysis and clustering (made legible for a person to look at) might show obvious problems that a person can guess how to fix to get the emulation to do interesting things. 04:59 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@185.66.252.50] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:03 < kanzure> .g picotiter plates 05:03 < yoleaux> kanzure: Sorry, that command (.g) crashed. 05:06 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@185.66.252.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:06 < kanzure> wait why are micropipette tips often discarded instead of flame washed.. 05:09 < kanzure> when you are done collecting oligo samples from certain wells on a giant plate, you can use the inkjet printhead to deposit wash materials in the wells that have already had samples retrieved from (and therefore discarded). then the travel time/distance until wash can be greatly reduced. still, adding operations like that to dna synthesis will unfortunately slow things down tremendously (my previous estimate was like 1 week~ of pipette ... 05:09 < kanzure> ... movement. are oligos on a giant surface even going to stay stable that long, yeesh). 05:12 < kanzure> if you are doing giant dna arrays to generate aptamer pools for brain component labeling (like channels, receptors, other things) then you should select not only for binding affinity to channels but also how easily the aptamers can be removed from the vitrified brain slice. i'm familiar with techniques for aptamer selection for binding affinity to random things like receptors but dunno about selection for successful watching... or ... 05:13 < kanzure> ... detachment. probably someone has already figured out how to force aptamers to decouple from targets. random guess, heat..... (which might damage vitrified tissue anyway). 05:13 < kanzure> *successful washing 05:20 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@185.66.252.126] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:25 -!- augur [~augur@76-218-206-38.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:29 -!- augur [~augur@76-218-206-38.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:44 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jEz03Z8azc 05:44 < yoleaux> First-stage landing | Onboard camera - YouTube 06:05 < kanzure> re: academic publishing, http://bjoern.brembs.net/2016/05/why-havent-we-already-canceled-all-subscriptions/ 06:19 < kanzure> "Host-Symbiont Coevolution in Digital and Microbial Systems" http://etd.lib.msu.edu/islandora/object/etd%3A2442/datastream/OBJ/view 06:24 < kanzure> what the hell is a markov brain 06:37 < kanzure> hmm http://gnusha.org/logs/html2/2015-07-14.log 06:37 < kanzure> er... http://gnusha.org/logs/2015-07-14.log 07:10 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-leauqxmefsdywguz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 07:12 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jrcywzbesiwqirlf] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:14 -!- augur [~augur@2602:304:cdac:e260:b49c:2e1b:e0ee:55a] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:24 < ybit> https://motherboard.vice.com/read/will-this-fancy-metallic-glue-kill-soldering 07:24 < ybit> http://mio.asminternational.org/amp/201601/files/assets/common/downloads/AMP_DigitalEdition_NovDec.pdf 07:24 < ybit> https://2016.spaceappschallenge.org/awards/global-awards 07:25 < ybit> https://github.com/hamsternz/FPGA_Webserver 07:28 -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-178-000-182-226.178.000.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:35 -!- augur [~augur@2602:304:cdac:e260:b49c:2e1b:e0ee:55a] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:45 -!- augur [~augur@76-218-206-38.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:53 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mqgrotvcawocngws] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:34 -!- Aurelius_Laptop [~cpopell@static-108-28-104-83.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:37 < maaku> "deep learning hype" = "backpropaganda" 09:46 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:50 < c0rw1n> lol 09:54 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:12 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@185.66.252.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:19 -!- augur [~augur@76-218-206-38.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:22 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-fjxgqlflpuvyshmf] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:47 -!- Aurelius_Laptop [~cpopell@static-108-28-104-83.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:10 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-fjxgqlflpuvyshmf] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:06 -!- nildicit [~nildicit@unaffiliated/nildicit] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:10 -!- andytoshi [~andytoshi@wpsoftware.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4] 12:11 -!- andytoshi [~andytoshi@unaffiliated/andytoshi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:37 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2602:306:35fa:d500:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:44 -!- nildicit [~nildicit@unaffiliated/nildicit] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:50 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jrcywzbesiwqirlf] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 13:17 < kanzure> "Ultimate physical limits to computation" http://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/9908043v3.pdf 13:17 < kanzure> "Limits on fundamental limits to computation" http://arxiv.org/abs/1408.3821 13:30 -!- augur [~augur@2602:304:cdac:e260:5820:b1f9:9fe0:4a5d] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:31 -!- comma8 [~comma8@2601:1c2:d00:c980:2263:b019:c515:9556] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:36 -!- jaboja [~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:50 -!- Orpheon [~Orpheon@213.200.193.129] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:56 -!- 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[ntmccork@nat/intel/x-hprtjpemnqlvnrjh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:54 < nmz787_i> abetusk: for sure, but I am not sure how to reproduce a slicer otherwise ,at the moment 16:54 -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-hprtjpemnqlvnrjh] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:12 -!- anoncicada [anoncicada@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-wrybrfmyvrfclgwb] has quit [Quit: faggory daggory doo!] 17:17 -!- anoncicada [anoncicada@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-tfehosltzskbfkba] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:20 -!- anoncicada [anoncicada@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-tfehosltzskbfkba] has quit [Changing host] 17:20 -!- anoncicada [anoncicada@unaffiliated/anarcanon] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:20 -!- anoncicada [anoncicada@unaffiliated/anarcanon] has quit [Changing host] 17:20 -!- anoncicada [anoncicada@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-tfehosltzskbfkba] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:39 < xentrac_> I love "backpropaganda" 17:39 < xentrac_> thanks, maaku 18:49 -!- drewbot_ [~cinch@ec2-54-198-57-201.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined 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