--- Log opened Fri Jun 03 00:00:19 2016
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00:13 < nmz787_i> well so far this M3D printer has been easier than the last 3D printer I used
00:16 < xentrac_> I got hold of a piece of Dyneema yarn today for the first time.  It's quite a remarkable material.
00:22 < xentrac_> I calculated its specific energy capacity as a spring; it's like 60 kJ/kg, which is way outside the range of normal springs and capacitors, getting up into the range of batteries
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00:22 < xentrac_> (probably not actually useful in battery-like applications because of high creep)
00:24 < xentrac_> (I'm using the properties measured by ARL for it; I haven't done my own measurements yet)
00:30 < xentrac_> nmz787_i: I'd probably use OpenSCAD, even though Blender is more powerful
00:30 < xentrac_> also I think some slicers have a "print many" option nowadays
00:40 < fenn> can't you jsut use a different refrigerant for dewar cryonics storage? like r34 or whatever they're using these days
00:40 < fenn> to raise the boiling point to near whatever temperature is optimal
00:41 < fenn> you can use an oxygen concentrator"
00:42 < fenn> to remove nitrogen from the gas stream with an adsorbing medium like synthetic zeolite
00:43 < fenn> i get the impression gases are actually pretty cheap to make on industrial scales, but there are lots of middlemen and the markups becomes unreasonable for purchasing small quantities or e.g. argon
00:44 < fenn> of*
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00:50 < fenn> i'm pretty sure i could design a solar powered refrigerator that keeps one end at whatever temperature you want
00:50 < fenn> and i'm not a refrigerator designer
00:51 < fenn> so the cost of long term cryo storage could be reduced to capital and refrigerator maintenance
00:55 < fenn> http://www.solaripedia.com/13/389/5534/solar_ice_maker_2008.html
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01:06 < fenn> i have a big spool of what i think is dyneema fishing line from dealextreme, it's sort of greenish black braid and feels soft like embroidery thread
01:14 < fenn> materials with high specific strength are good candidates for flywheel energy storage
01:25 < fenn> "Flywheel energy storage systems using mechanical bearings can lose 20% to 50% of their energy in two hours. Much of the friction responsible for this energy loss results from the flywheel changing orientation due to the rotation of the earth ... This can be avoided by aligning the flywheel's axis of rotation parallel to that of the earth's axis of rotation."
01:26 < fenn> i wonder how much friction is left after aligning it correctly
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01:37 < fenn> .wik compulsator
01:37 < yoleaux> "A compensated pulsed alternator, also known by the portmanteau compulsator, is a form of power supply." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsator
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03:13 < kanzure> it's too bad that "royalty-backed obligations" are based on patents and intellectual property
03:14 < kanzure> oops i mean "research-backed obligations"
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03:17 < kanzure> if delay can be tolerated in payback period with high risk, then i think a bunch of super high-yield bonds could be made that represent economic dividends from endless piles of emulations doing "jobs".
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03:18 < TMA> kanzure: due to globalized economy you can probably find a jurisdiction, where the patents are not enforceable and issue the bonds there
03:20 < TMA> kanzure: oh, sorry, it is the other way round -- the underlying is the patent/IP; I thought that the securitization method is patented/covered by IP in the USA
03:32 < kanzure> yes the trouble with "patents are the underlying" is that assumptions about high friction to copy things is just.. wrong.
03:34 < kanzure> and because it requires DRM for any emulation scenario (which seems fairly broken)
03:41 < kanzure> er nevermind that's not true. restrictive licensing is not "DRM".
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03:49 < kanzure> "not-quite-human" emulation tech would probably be pervasive public utility that more than pays back whatever investments, probably don't even need taxation or indentured servitude for human emulations if you are using the giant emulation colony/cluster design. wouldn't be IP-backed, instead merely contract law (or you could sign exclusive deals with particular folks to get uploaded eventually, and make that the financially relevant ...
03:49 < kanzure> ... asset rather than intellectual property or hopeless attempts at keeping 'research' and 'ideas' totally private)
03:50 < kanzure> (in particular it is those people's resources and their cooperation that are important to the 'colony' proposal.   the fact that they would copy themselves around faster than an STD around a college campus should be, mostly, irrelevant since nobody should be dumb enough to split their funding every time they make a copy of their own emulation.)
03:51 < kanzure> ((well at least 50% splitting. i'm sure <x% finance splitting doesn't matter and doesn't bleed anyone dry.))
04:16 < TMA> (a) exponential decay is quite fast even for "reasonable" splits (b) I do not think there is value in an uploaded ordinary person per se -- even less so, if the uploaded person is in any sense "free"
04:24 < TMA> "90% of everything is crap" principle. An uploaded da Vinci might be valuable asset, his uploaded illiterate contemporary less so (maybe few of them might satisfy someone's curiosity)
04:41 < kanzure> so, i think that's actually broken in a number of ways. ordinary folks getting uploaded is valuable because it's cheaper than healthcare and food costs in the long run, so at minimum there's that.
04:42 < kanzure> regarding your insistence on slavery, i don't think that's necessary either. it's the same as like "you're free to go out to sea with no infrastructure, no funding, and no taxation, sure, but have fun". additionally, not-quite-human emulations will probably be valuable anyway and maybe even pay for all the human-specific junk.
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04:58 < TMA> kanzure: slavery is not necessary -- it is just profitable.
04:59 < TMA> NQH emulations will be even more valuable, if there was no parasitic human emulation bundled
05:01 < TMA> If you can make $100 from a NQHE, why waste anything on HE? either HE has to have more value per resources utilized than NQHE or it makes no economic sense
05:03 < TMA> of course, there will be research HE and conservation HE, like there are traditional unprofitable breeds of cattle/... still maintained.
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06:01 < kanzure> "... the Cybathlon, the first ever cyborg Olympics, coming to a stadium in Zurich in October 2016. In these games, the competitors will use advanced technologies to compensate for ... paralysis [or] limb amputation. ... ... During the obstacle course for amputees with powered arm prosthetics, the pilots must slice loaves of bread and open jars of jam, ordinary breakfast rituals that become exasperating when attempted one-handed. ..." --"
06:01 < kanzure> http://spectrum.ieee.org/biomedical/bionics/get-ready-for-the-worlds-first-cyborg-olympics
06:01 < kanzure> http://dx.doi.org/10.1109/MSPEC.2016.7367459
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09:04 < maaku> fenn: i would have guess 'compulsator' was using a pulsar as a flywheel
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10:50 < nmz787_i> .title http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1597997/#files
10:50 < yoleaux> Centrifugal Clutch by JML31347 - Thingiverse
10:50 < nmz787_i> pretty cool
10:50 < nmz787_i> OP didn't answer if he printed it and whether it worked
10:50 < nmz787_i> there is a cool category for learning stuff though http://www.thingiverse.com/explore/newest/learning/page:1
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11:04 < fenn> and so human self-domestication proceeded at an astounding rate
11:11 < xentrac_> fenn: yeah, greenish braid that feels soft and waxy like embroidery thread is what I have too
11:12 < xentrac_> fenn: I think the cost of liquid gases is largely due to safety measures and losses in shipping and storage
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11:24 < nmz787_i> fenn: xentrac_ I was thinking I could also use some regex to find all the X,Y in the STL file, then apply offsets to them and concatenate the results to a single output file
11:24 < nmz787_i> I feel like that might work
11:30 < kanzure> nmz787_i, you should show fenn the electroporator plans
11:32 < nmz787_i> umm, I wonder if it is an open list
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11:33 < nmz787_i> http://cibolo.us/pipermail/open_electroporator/2016-June/thread.html
11:33 < nmz787_i> fenn: ^
11:34 < nmz787_i> fenn: see attachment at bottom: http://cibolo.us/pipermail/open_electroporator/2016-June/000071.html
11:40 < fenn> http://cibolo.us/pipermail/open_electroporator/attachments/20160602/40066a2a/attachment-0001.jpg
11:40 < Vicarious> hi
11:43 < fenn> don't really feel like downloading openoffice
11:43 < fenn> i get the general idea though
11:44 < fenn> is there still a hackerspace in austin? i keep getting google calendar emails from ATXhackerspace
11:45 < kanzure> me too, i don't know how to stop that
11:48 < fenn> i'm not sure why an electroporator needs to be connected to a computer in the first place
11:49 < nmz787_i> fenn: programmability
11:49 < kanzure> protocol variations i think
11:49 < nmz787_i> yeah, that ^
11:49 < nmz787_i> fenn: also integration with automation
11:49 < fenn> are there multiple pulses?
11:50 < nmz787_i> so the design calls for multiple pulsers which effectively blend short pulses into longer ones on the output
11:50 < nmz787_i> that way you can stretch pulses
11:50 < nmz787_i> you could also do a train of such pulses
11:51 < nmz787_i> I am not sure if standard electroporators do a single pulse or a short train
11:51 < fenn> wow the tritechresearch cloning gun is so ugly: http://www.tritechresearch.com/shop/items/CG-1.JPG
11:51 < nmz787_i> it is something easily looked up i'm sure
11:51 < nmz787_i> well looks like a soap dispenser to me, sortof
11:52 < nmz787_i> push the top down to pump it
11:52 < kanzure> pretty sure that's a dildo
11:53 < nmz787_i> yep
11:53 < nmz787_i> or something for the colon
11:53 < xentrac_> nmz787_i: reading and writing STL files is very easy, so yes, you can do that, although I don't think you need regexps
11:54 < fenn> reading the bio-rad specs and not understanding: "0.05–10 ms in 0.05 ms increments, 10–100 ms pulse in 1 ms increments, 1–10 pulses, 0.1–10 sec interval
11:54 < fenn> 500–3,000 V: 0.05–5 ms in 0.05 ms increments, 1–2 pulses, 5 sec minimum interval"
11:55 < fenn> if you can have 10 100ms long "pulses" separated by 0.1s isn't that just a 1s pulse?
11:55 < fenn> and what the hell does that mean?
11:56 < nmz787_i> makes sense to me
11:56 < fenn> oh maybe it's a 2s long square wave
11:56 < xentrac_> yes
11:56 < xentrac_> that sounds like a 50% duty cycle to me
11:57 < nmz787_i> adjust the single-pulse in increments of 0.05ms when it is max 10ms single-pulse... then that adjust value changes if you are in the max 100ms pulse range... delay pulsing by 0.1 to 10 secs
11:59 < fenn> jeez the bio-rad one is $7k
11:59 < kanzure> :)
12:00 < fenn> well at least they give a price
12:01 < kanzure> john is saying $2k for all design and prototyping and testing work, and $250/kit target range
12:05 < nmz787_i> even used on ebay ranges from $50 to $2k
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13:47 < kanzure> bloop
13:54 < kanzure> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1444380224/hope-bio-h4ckers-on-pl4net-e4rth
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13:57 < abetusk> http://www.tjoe.org/
14:00 < catern> i def. enjoyed the time i went to HOPE
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14:34 < chris_99> does anyone know with phosphorescent glow in the dark paint, if you could prematurely stop it emitting light out of interest
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16:34 < nmz787_i> will snowden actually be there, in NYC? or telecast?
17:10 < kanzure> probably telecast
17:16 < fenn> .tell chris_99 you can quench phosphrescence with strong infrared light or heat
17:16 < yoleaux> fenn: I'll pass your message to chris_99.
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20:56 < xentrac_> fenn: how does this quenching phosphorescence with strong infrared work?  I mean I have seen someone doing it with a laser pointer
20:56 < xentrac_> but what I don't understand is how it works in practice
20:57 < xentrac_> however, it doesn't *quench* it, if it's the phenomenon I saw; it just delays it
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