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quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:04 -!- Jawmare [~Jawmare@unaffiliated/jawmare] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:16 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-101-180-249-107.lnse3.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:17 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:79dc:2d62:fa1e:1142] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:19 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-101-180-249-107.lnse3.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Client Quit] 06:20 -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:79dc:2d62:fa1e:1142] has quit [Client Quit] 06:20 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-101-180-249-107.lnse3.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:25 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-101-180-249-107.lnse3.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 06:25 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:79dc:2d62:fa1e:1142] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:26 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:79dc:2d62:fa1e:1142] has quit [Client Quit] 06:27 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-101-180-249-107.lnse3.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:45 < chris_99> Does anyone think you could modify yeast to make them metabolise sugar faster out of curiousity 06:49 -!- ebowden is now known as ebowden_ 06:50 -!- ebowden_ is now known as ebowden1 06:50 -!- ebowden1 is now known as ebowden2 06:50 -!- ebowden2 is now known as ebowden 07:03 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@108.19.186.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:09 -!- Jenda` [~bablbam@dekatron.hrach.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:14 -!- partybear is now known as poohbear 07:14 -!- poohbear is now known as hungoverbear 07:16 -!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-155-69.client.mchsi.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:17 -!- Jawmare [~Jawmare@unaffiliated/jawmare] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:21 -!- Jenda` [~bablbam@dekatron.hrach.eu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:21 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@108.19.186.58] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:23 -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@108.19.186.58] has quit [Client Quit] 07:35 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-athrwlcgtgbcqolm] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:35 < FourFire> Does anyone know the current lowest going rate for 1KB DNA synthesis? 07:35 < FourFire> Currently have a website that says $230 per kb 07:39 < ebowden> Some people do it at 3 cents a base pair. 07:42 -!- Jawmare [~Jawmare@unaffiliated/jawmare] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:44 < FourFire> ebowden, source? 07:44 < FourFire> is it biohacker labs which do it at a loss? 07:45 < FourFire> (I mean if not, that's pretty cool, only 1.5 Billion SD to synth a human genome instead of 13) 07:45 < ebowden> Oh, shit, they might not be offering it yet. 07:46 < ebowden> Think it might have been these guys: https://www.gen9bio.com/solutions/custom-gene-synthesis 07:47 < ebowden> http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20160321005748/en/Gen9-Announces-Generation-BioFab%C2%AE-DNA-Synthesis-Platform 08:09 -!- nildicit [~nildicit@unaffiliated/nildicit] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:19 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@185.66.253.126] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:22 -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@185.66.253.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:25 -!- hungoverbear is now known as poohbear 08:27 -!- nildicit [~nildicit@unaffiliated/nildicit] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:31 < kanzure> hrmph 09:07 -!- Orpheon [~Orpheon@201.158.62.81.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:13 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:14 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:15 -!- sandeepkr_ [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:18 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:22 -!- sandeepkr_ [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:33 -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@185.66.253.126] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:37 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@185.66.253.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:38 -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@185.66.253.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:51 -!- jtimon [~quassel@55.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:12 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:17 -!- sandeepkr_ [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:22 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:24 -!- sandeepkr_ [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:24 -!- sandeepkr_ [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:27 -!- sandeepkr__ [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:29 -!- sandeepkr_ [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:29 -!- augur [~augur@76-218-206-38.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:30 -!- sandeepkr__ [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:36 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2602:306:35fa:d500:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:46 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jaehujnszxvzkgix] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:46 -!- jtimon [~quassel@55.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:57 < kanzure> yashgaroth: thanks for doing that writeup 10:57 < yashgaroth> eh, needed to be done, but you're welcome 10:58 < yashgaroth> now to convince ThermoFisher that I am a legitimate business entity 10:59 < kanzure> use biotechnbeyond for that 11:00 < yashgaroth> might still need to incorporate myself, will have to confer with jojack 11:00 < chris_99> do they actually check you out 11:00 < kanzure> no, they just need an address and business number thingy 11:01 < chris_99> ah 11:01 < yashgaroth> not as much as sigma but it'd probably be best to have a sole proprietorship 11:01 < chris_99> oh i wanted to buy something from sigma 11:03 < yashgaroth> best of luck to you 11:03 < chris_99> oh are they that bad 11:03 < yashgaroth> are you in the UK or am I thinking of someone else 11:03 < chris_99> UK yeah 11:04 < yashgaroth> well once the queen approves your license or whatever they do there, get yourself a commercial shipping address and business credit card 11:04 < chris_99> ah heh 11:06 < chris_99> i guess the restrictions are due to silly laws aimed at preventing terrorism or something? 11:07 < ebowden> They are indeed silly. 11:07 < yashgaroth> their liability in general, since once you're approved there's all kinds of ass-crazy shit you can buy on there 11:07 < chris_99> hmm, but i'm sure people with intentions to do bad, could get the chemicals elsewhere anyway 11:08 < yashgaroth> well you can't buy a kilo of cyanide on ebay, maybe on amazon 11:09 < chris_99> heh true 11:09 < chris_99> but could you not extract it yourself from millions of apple pips ;) 11:09 < ebowden> Kids, we all know cyanide isn't hard to make. 11:10 < ebowden> You could, but you wouldn't use apple pips. 11:12 < yashgaroth> but yes most stuff you can get elsewhere, sigma is just the gold standard 11:12 < chris_99> gotcha, i guess they certify the purity 11:12 < chris_99> etc too 11:12 < ebowden> Plenty of places sell stuff cheaper, sometimes to greater purity. 11:12 < chris_99> oh interesting 11:12 < kanzure> yashgaroth: btw we should do aerosolized mdma 11:13 < xentrac> heh, "gold standard" is a particularly funny term when it comes to cyanide 11:13 < ebowden> No, use the active, non-toxic metabolite. 11:13 < chris_99> are there any places you know of in the UK ebowden 11:13 < ebowden> Depends on what you want. 11:13 < ebowden> Wait, you can't import? 11:13 < yashgaroth> kanzure I will put my top men on it 11:13 < kanzure> thanks 11:14 < ebowden> You realise that one of its metabolites is a fairly potent neurotoxin? 11:14 < chris_99> ebowden, at the moment i was just looking for skoog medium, i noticed i can get that on ebay though 11:15 < ebowden> Really, depends on what you want. LC labs are fucking awesome for kinase inhibitors. 11:17 < ebowden> Which, in doses one hundredth of that used in chemo, are extremely promising for treating practically anything involving protein plaques, tangles and aggregates of other kinds. 11:17 < ebowden> (Autophagy induction.) 11:19 < ebowden> kanzure: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylenedioxyamphetamine 11:19 < CaptHindsight> heh, sigma, I never buy from them. Their prices are 10-100x of anyone else. 11:20 < ebowden> It's ridiculous. 11:20 < CaptHindsight> they take about a week to approve you 11:21 < CaptHindsight> you just need a commercial lease that states that you have a lab and can receive chems 11:21 < chris_99> ah 11:22 < CaptHindsight> so plan ahead 11:22 < CaptHindsight> or buy elsewhere 11:22 < CaptHindsight> like China 11:22 < ebowden> Gotta be careful, lot of fake shit sold there. 11:22 < ebowden> Sometimes mix ups. 11:23 < CaptHindsight> yeah, you need to find good suppliers in China 11:23 < ebowden> There are trustworthy vendors that buy big batches and test them both in-house and 3rd party. 11:23 < CaptHindsight> but it's well worth the time 11:23 < kanzure> yashgaroth: should CaptHindsight be shown the proposal? 11:24 < yashgaroth> sure 11:24 < CaptHindsight> and everything from China is marked "colored dye" 11:24 < yashgaroth> to be fair I don't expect to need to buy anything from Sigma, most everything else for protein work is remarkably on ebay/amazon 11:25 < CaptHindsight> well in small quantities who are good suppliers? 11:25 < CaptHindsight> yeah, buying from Sigma is like going grocery shopping at the airport 11:28 < CaptHindsight> xentrac: make friends in China 11:28 < xentrac> do you visit China often? 11:28 < CaptHindsight> xentrac: have them deal wit the locals in their own language and currency 11:28 < xentrac> ah, I see what you mean 11:29 < CaptHindsight> I used to spend about half the year there 11:29 < xentrac> how was that? 11:29 < chris_99> cool, have you been to shenzen? (sp?) 11:29 < CaptHindsight> I have some suppliers there that tack on a few % for whatever I need 11:30 < CaptHindsight> sure, Shenzhen is right across the border from Hong Kong 11:31 < CaptHindsight> but I get 1 million piece pricing + 2% 11:31 < CaptHindsight> or several ton pricing + 2% 11:31 < CaptHindsight> for my 10K parts or 10Kg of something 11:31 < xentrac> because your suppliers trust you to pay and not make trouble 11:31 < xentrac> I guess? 11:32 < CaptHindsight> yeah, everyone wins 11:33 < CaptHindsight> their guberment gave me $, offices and a factory as well near Shanghai 11:34 < ebowden> You have a fucking factory?! 11:34 < chris_99> haha 11:34 < CaptHindsight> yeah they want your IP, but they also pay for it 11:35 < ebowden> What the fuck did you do to be given a factory? 11:35 < CaptHindsight> a few years ago they had a startup program to find and fund ~1k new companies 11:36 < CaptHindsight> we were approved near instantly 11:36 < chris_99> wow :) 11:36 < chris_99> can you speak Chinese then 11:37 < CaptHindsight> http://sinotech.ch/2013/03/nanjing-321-plan/ 11:38 < ebowden> What do you do with this factory? 11:38 < CaptHindsight> additive manufacturing and radcure resins 11:39 < CaptHindsight> well really anything as long as you make money 11:39 < ebowden> You make the resins? :D 11:39 -!- Regex_ [~Cara@2601:1c0:8501:d159:11d2:3cc9:ae89:7bc5] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:40 -!- Regex_ [~Cara@2601:1c0:8501:d159:11d2:3cc9:ae89:7bc5] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:41 < CaptHindsight> https://ibin.co/2nUYCsjfEeEy.jpg they let you pick your space 11:41 < CaptHindsight> they charge you next to nothing for it 11:41 < CaptHindsight> 10K sq ft is like $500/mo 11:42 < ebowden> So, do you make the actual resins? 11:42 < CaptHindsight> yes 11:43 < CaptHindsight> https://ibin.co/2nUYmTUbgm49.jpg you get bare insides 11:43 < CaptHindsight> so you have to build it out yourself 11:43 < xentrac> nice! 11:44 < ebowden> So, any synthesis involved? 11:44 < CaptHindsight> mostly blending but yeah some synthesis 11:44 < CaptHindsight> reactors are cheap in China 11:45 < ebowden> Oh, what did you synthesise? 11:45 < xentrac> is everything cheap in China, or are some things more expensive? 11:45 < CaptHindsight> but it's often easier to just hire someone with a reactor to make it for you 11:46 < CaptHindsight> things made in China are automatically 10-20% cheaper when sold to other Chinese 11:46 < CaptHindsight> foreigners always pay more 11:47 < CaptHindsight> ebowden: oligomers 11:47 < ebowden> CaptHindsight, talk to the guy that owns Ceretropic and Nootropics Depot. He might be able to use some stuff you might be able to make. 11:50 < CaptHindsight> having been working with much bio there yet 11:50 < CaptHindsight> mostly industrial 11:51 < CaptHindsight> it was hard enough to find suppliers with low contamination in their industrial monomers 11:51 < ebowden> Would you make, say phenylpiracetam hydrazide? 11:52 < ebowden> Do tablet pressing? 11:52 < CaptHindsight> not really my focus right now 11:54 < CaptHindsight> you screw up a batch there and you end up with a bullet in your head courtesy of the Chinese guberment 11:55 < ebowden> Oh, he tests them all, anything bad he'll tell you about. 11:55 < ebowden> They won't end up with consumers. 11:56 < CaptHindsight> you hear the stories about melamine in baby formula or lead in kids toys 11:56 < chris_99> yeah, what happened to the manufacturers that caused that 11:56 < ebowden> Executed. 11:57 < CaptHindsight> what you don't hear about in the west is how the heads of those co's ended up with lead poisoning 11:57 < ebowden> I sure as hell heard. 11:58 < ebowden> CaptHindsight, this guy tests every batch, in house and third party. What government consequences are there for getting a batch sent back? 11:58 < CaptHindsight> at the same time you can buy fat spray on TV to lose your belly fat instantly 11:59 < ebowden> This person got into the industry because he used the products, and was frustrated with the state of it. 12:00 < ebowden> Originally, he was just a guy on noots boards who would point out all the bullshit, basically the immune system. People begged the man to go into business. 12:02 < CaptHindsight> https://ibin.co/2nUeghrWDXbG.jpg 12:02 < CaptHindsight> if they spray actually hurt people then it could be a death sentence for the sellers 12:03 < CaptHindsight> but since it's just a safe foam it's "buyer beware" 12:03 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:03 < ebowden> You're worried about putting out contaminated batches? 12:04 < CaptHindsight> that would be a concern, but it's just not my focus to make those kinds of chems right now 12:05 < ebowden> Ok. Precursors for peptide synth? 12:06 < CaptHindsight> working on rapid DNA/RNA synthesis since nobody really is 12:06 < CaptHindsight> lots of talk, but no action 12:07 -!- _0bitcount [~Big_Byte@92.176.142.156] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:08 < ebowden> I thought you did anything that made money. 12:11 < ebowden> How much do you know about developing synths? 12:14 < CaptHindsight> How many tons do you need? How will you finance it? 12:14 < ebowden> It also depends on the structure of the molecule. 12:15 < CaptHindsight> maker types tend to want a few custom Kg's of something and what the 100,000 Kg price 12:15 < CaptHindsight> I call them dreamers 12:16 < ebowden> lol 12:16 < ebowden> Could this be made cheaply? https://www.tocris.com/image.php?ItemId=393252 12:16 < ebowden> LM11A-31, a very, very promising drug candidate. 12:16 < CaptHindsight> "my time is near worthless, yours should be to" 12:16 < ebowden> lol 12:17 < ebowden> Sorry, I didn't mean to waste your time. 12:17 < ebowden> Honestly was hoping to get you some business. The guy deals mostly with China anyway. 12:22 < ebowden> CaptHindsight: http://i.imgur.com/0ml0uJY.jpg 12:30 < CaptHindsight> I wonder if similar effects are felt by avoiding facebook, reprap, *duinos and anything with maker in the name 12:31 < ebowden> Similar to what? 12:31 < ebowden> Lol, reprapists. 12:32 < ebowden> I know a guy who made an extruder that can properly print PEEK. 12:33 < ebowden> Is any equipment useful to you ever made with that stuff? 12:35 < ebowden> I know it's awesome for implants, but I've always wondered what other uses the stuff finds. 12:38 -!- augur [~augur@76-218-206-38.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:43 < TMA> ebowden: I have made myself an extension of the pins holding a shelf in my cabinet 12:43 < ebowden> You printed PEEK? 12:44 < TMA> ebowden: not PEEK -- I have understood you mean 3d printing is useless in general 12:45 < ebowden> It's actually incredibly useful, just not a magic bullet. 12:46 < TMA> there is no free lunch or magic bullet 12:47 < ebowden> CaptHindsight, ever had the pain in the ass of a synth where one part needs the vessel to be cooled? 12:47 < ebowden> (For a decent yield anyway.) 13:04 -!- sandeepkr_ [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:07 < CaptHindsight> http://www.cnpioneer.com/ reactors 13:08 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:09 < chris_99> essentially they just stir things and regulate the temperature? 13:10 < CaptHindsight> with funky tubes for adding and siphoning while heating 13:10 < chris_99> aha cool 13:10 < chris_99> are they double skinned then 13:11 < chris_99> for pumping a heating fluid / steam in 13:11 < CaptHindsight> that's what all those external fittings are for 13:11 < chris_99> ah 13:11 < CaptHindsight> http://www.cnpioneer.com/product/GMP-Reactor.html check the drawings 13:12 < CaptHindsight> the fun part is having to clean them out 13:13 < CaptHindsight> often the most expensive part of the process 13:13 < chris_99> heh, do they have CIP system 13:13 < CaptHindsight> send the monkey in with a sponge and bucket 13:13 < chris_99> can't you just pump caustic through 13:13 < CaptHindsight> depends 13:14 < ebowden> This can be used for cooling? 13:24 < nmz787> they use caustic at wineries 13:24 -!- CuriousCat [~CuriousCa@unaffiliated/wye-naught/x-8734122] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:24 < chris_99> and breweries 13:24 < chris_99> although you have you be careful with implosions in the fermenter apparently 13:24 < chris_99> due to co2 13:27 < yashgaroth> we just use a monkey and steam in place for bioreactors, that sounds like a ton of caustic haz waste to dispose of 13:27 < chris_99> yeah, i'm curious what they actually do with it 13:27 < ebowden> Neutralise it? 13:28 < yashgaroth> neutralization on site is a lot of paperwork if you're not in a huge facility 13:29 < ebowden> Ah. 13:29 -!- sandeepkr__ [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:30 < chris_99> if they diluted it to some amount, can it go down the drain, or would that not be allowed 13:30 < yashgaroth> dilution of hazardous waste streams is explicitly not allowed 13:30 < chris_99> aha 13:31 -!- hehelleshin is now known as helleshin 13:33 -!- sandeepkr_ [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:35 -!- _0bitcount [~Big_Byte@92.176.142.156] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:38 < ebowden> How would it be processed? 13:39 < yashgaroth> if you do it on site you just dump acid in until the pH is in spec, otherwise you're filling up waste containers and getting them shipped off somewhere to be neutralized 13:39 < chris_99> nmz787, since i opted for cheapo peg board temporarily, is there a word for threadless metal of different sizes that i could put in it, and solder croc clips onto the top of 13:40 < ebowden> I guessed that part, I was wondering about further processing for potential contaminants. 13:40 < ebowden> (I suppose that depends on what it is you made.) 13:42 < yashgaroth> I've always just had it shipped off, but yeah depends on the contaminants 13:43 < ebowden> What kind of stuff do you make? 13:44 < yashgaroth> I make proteins, and in the process of doing so generate acid, base, flammable, and toxic metal waste 13:44 < ebowden> Oh, for what application? 13:44 < ebowden> *applications? 13:45 < yashgaroth> right now in vitro diagnostics, but previously it's mostly biopharmaceuticals or as research reagents 13:45 < ebowden> Oh, so you'd have to develop HPLC purification processes and such to maximise yield and purity. 13:46 < yashgaroth> well HPLC's mostly for analysis rather than purification, but yes 13:47 < ebowden> Odd, a lab I was at used it in some steps. 13:48 < ebowden> I guess that's the small stuff. 13:48 < ebowden> What ones do you use? 13:48 < ebowden> God there are tons. 13:48 < yashgaroth> yeah more than like a milligram and you're pushing the capacity of an HPLC, then you step up to FPLC 13:48 < yashgaroth> HPLCs? mostly agilents, 1100 series and occasionally 1200 13:49 < kanzure> qeradfjioqjerqofdjadvoahugq 13:49 < nmz787> I heard the wineries just have fields that the waste goes into... I can't remember but I think they just neutralize it with some acid maybe? 13:49 < yashgaroth> u ok kanz 13:49 < nmz787> chris_99: hmm, why can't you use threaded metal? 13:50 < ebowden> yashgaroth, what purification techniques are used the most? 13:50 < chris_99> nmz787, i think i found what i'm looking for, was just after a rod, that i could poke into it, and solder a croc clip on top, so i can remove it easily 13:51 < yashgaroth> affinity (nickel or protein-based), ion exchange, size exclusion 13:51 < ebowden> Oh, those were mentioned as the most common ones. 13:52 < ebowden> In basic courses. 13:52 < ebowden> Huh. 13:53 < yashgaroth> yup 13:53 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:53 < ebowden> Your job must be a no-brainer. :D 13:54 < yashgaroth> yeah it's great, just slam some crud into a column and call it a day 13:54 < abetusk> his cat walked across the keyboard, left to right 13:54 < ebowden> In all seriousness, I'm sure there are parts that are challenging. 13:55 < ebowden> What parts are? 13:55 < nmz787> when it doesn't work 13:55 < yashgaroth> ^ 13:55 < ebowden> lol 13:55 < ebowden> Then you have to go through and figure out where things went so terribly wrong. 13:56 < yashgaroth> uhh let's see, knowledge and experience of the best process to use, designing genes and proteins optimally, having the constant presence of mind to not forget a single critical detail, accurate recordkeeping 13:57 < ebowden> My got that sounds awesome. 13:58 < yashgaroth> haha yeah that's why we have a surplus of people who really shouldn't be in the field 13:58 < ebowden> lol 13:58 < ebowden> Go on. 13:59 < yashgaroth> it doesn't take a genius to follow a protocol, but that small (or not so small) % of the time something goes wrong, most biologists possess little background knowledge to analyze the problem 13:59 < ebowden> One of the first courses I did actually covered exactly this. 14:00 < ebowden> I keep all my receipts folded compactly in paper bags I get specifically for them, they are labelled, one bag for each half of the year. 14:00 < yashgaroth> or they just like plants/fish and realized there's like no jobs that give a shit about that, so they filter into molecular bio and gradually fuck things up 14:01 < yashgaroth> it's not so much tracking what you did every step of the way, though there is that...just the theoretical understanding of why biomolecules do what they do 14:02 < ebowden> They really hammer that in. 14:02 < yashgaroth> and then everyone promptly ignores it 14:02 < ebowden> ...why? 14:03 < ebowden> For what possible reason would you ignore that when making and purifying fucking proteins? 14:03 < yashgaroth> because humans are lazy, which is the answer to most questions, or stupid, which is the answer to all other questions 14:04 -!- Zer0_cool [~Zer0_cool@162.216.46.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:04 < ebowden> So, how do these animal and plant lovers "gradually" fuck things up? 14:04 < yashgaroth> well, they start off running ELISA plates all day, and politic their way into positions of responsibility where they have no real reason to be 14:06 < ebowden> Can they just fucking take some PRL-8-53 and maybe a DRI read some damn texbooks? 14:07 < ebowden> It's not that hard, you almost literally buy motivation and swallow a dose. 14:07 < yashgaroth> too busy drinking 14:08 < yashgaroth> anyway it's not much different from other technical fields 14:08 < yashgaroth> well, the sciences anyway 14:09 < ebowden> God I wish it weren't so frighteningly easy to beat other people on competence. 14:09 < ebowden> It's too depressing. 14:10 < yashgaroth> mm 14:11 < ebowden> I wonder, perhaps one could administer a typical anti-physchotic with 7,8-dihydroxyflavone for a while and come out with a motivated person. 14:11 < xentrac> Why do you think that is, ebowden? 14:12 < ebowden> Think what is? 14:12 < xentrac> Like, what keeps other people from being competent? Is it lack of intelligence? 14:12 < xentrac> Or lack of motivation? 14:12 < ebowden> Both. IQ is inversely correlated with conscientiousness. 14:13 < xentrac> Well, within the population of accomplished people, sure 14:13 < xentrac> but I think the population-wide correlation is positive 14:13 < ebowden> In the general population too actually, at least among males. 14:13 < xentrac> Oh really? 14:13 < xentrac> I had thought the opposite but I don't have a cite handy 14:13 < xentrac> So what works to motivate people? 14:14 < ebowden> A large-bore handgun. 14:15 < ebowden> Otherwise, you could assign points, reward for trying. 14:16 < ebowden> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886903004380 14:16 < ebowden> However, small studies have found negative results here. 14:16 < ebowden> https://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/2373 14:17 < ebowden> The better ones seem to be positive. 14:18 < ebowden> xentrac, you know how amphetamine addiction works? 14:19 < xentrac> Only experientially, not biochemically. How does it work? 14:19 < xentrac> (and it was methylphenidate, but I assume that's similar enough) 14:19 < ebowden> You were addicted? 14:20 < ebowden> Beyond the more transient effects of dosing, such as neurotransmitter depletion and receptor down-regulation, BDNF is released, increasing "plasticity" and allowing the brain to wire itself to function with that level of stimulus. 14:21 < ebowden> When you take that stimulus away, you've got more problems than just the withdrawal. 14:22 < ebowden> That's why I've wondered about administering a TrkB agonist, such as 7,8-dihyroxyflavone, with a Dopamine receptor antagonist, to get the brain used to lower levels, not only to counter addiction but perhaps to create people who are more attentive and motivated genrally. 14:23 < ebowden> *generally 14:25 < ebowden> xentrac, are you still addicted to methylphenidate? 14:27 < ebowden> Or was this some other kind of experiment? 14:34 < xentrac> No, the withdrawal only lasts about a week 14:35 < xentrac> In a sense it was an experiment, but I wasn't a willing subject 14:35 < ebowden> You were likely not addicted. 14:35 < xentrac> It lasted about a week each time, a really shitty week 14:35 < ebowden> What, you were force fed Methylphenidate? 14:35 < xentrac> Yes 14:35 < xentrac> This is common 14:35 < ebowden> How did that happen? 14:35 < xentrac> Psychiatrists 14:35 < ebowden> When did it happen? 14:36 < xentrac> Whether there was long-term brain damage I don't know, because I don't know how I'd be today without having experienced that 14:36 < ebowden> Were you a child? 14:36 < ebowden> What age? 14:36 < xentrac> yes, 6-14, 1982 to 1990 14:37 < ebowden> You don't bloody stop and start, you take the full course. 14:37 < xentrac> Crazy meds aren't antibiotics 14:37 < xentrac> One year I stayed on them teh whole time instead of going off them on the weekends 14:37 < xentrac> I developed psychosis that year 14:38 < ebowden> My my, not right for you. 14:38 < xentrac> I also learned a lot about digital logic and organic chemistry, some of which I still know 14:38 < ebowden> Oh? 14:38 < xentrac> I was 9 14:38 < ebowden> Did it help you learn? 14:38 < xentrac> Oh definitely 14:38 < xentrac> I would stay up all night reading the Bhagavad Gita or the organic chemistry textbook instead of sleeping 14:39 < ebowden> At whatever age you took it, if you took it continuously it would have induced brain volume increase from BDNF release 14:39 < xentrac> Some of the things I learned weren't real, though! 14:39 < ebowden> At whatever age you took it, if you took it continuously it would have induced brain volume increase from BDNF release. 14:39 < xentrac> BDNF expands your cranium? 14:39 < xentrac> Or it just reduces the volume of your CSF? 14:40 < nmz787_i> xentrac: I also stayed up late into the night habitually, I think due in part to ritalin/amphetamine and possibly that my dad for some reason thought it OK that my bed was next to our washer and dryer (albeit in a closet) 14:40 < xentrac> intermittent fasting or CR seems like it would be a less harmful way to release BDNF 14:41 < xentrac> Your idea about TrkB agonists and dop antagonists sounds interesting but I don't know enough to provide useful input, ebowden 14:41 < nmz787_i> I still stay up late, habitually, it is really hard not to... and I haven't taken any stimulants regularly for something like 11 or 12 years (though I have infrequently taken my old meds that I kept in storage, though they just recently ran out) 14:41 < ebowden> With the pattern of release caused by DRIs at therapeutic doses, the volume of certain regions involved in attention and arousal gradually increases. This appears to cause a gradual increase in IQ. 14:42 < ebowden> If it had been done below the age of six, it would likely decrease IQ. 14:42 < xentrac> Yeah, me too, nmz787_i. I've had some success with melatonin 14:43 < ebowden> It's awesome for me, and chemopreventative too! :D 14:43 < nmz787_i> I've megadosed with melatonin, it has no effect 14:43 < nmz787_i> I feel like melatonin must be highly placebo linked 14:43 < ebowden> No, placebo controlled trials were done. 14:43 < nmz787_i> or I have a strong placebo in the opposite direction (I doubt it will work, belief makes it happen) 14:43 < ebowden> It's just not very impressive. 14:44 < xentrac> doesn't imply it couldn't have a placebo effect too, ebowden :) 14:44 < xentrac> I typically take 600μg 14:44 < ebowden> 2mg. 14:44 < ebowden> Extended release. 14:44 < nmz787_i> I want to say I took like half a drugstore bottle once 14:44 < nmz787_i> or maybe 1/4 14:44 -!- Orpheon [~Orpheon@213.200.193.129] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:44 < ebowden> It's very safe even in high doses. 14:45 < nmz787_i> unfortunately I wasn't looking for safe, I was looking for "knock me out so I can have a chance at waking up in the morning to get to school so I don't fail highschool" 14:45 < nmz787_i> didn't work, dropped out and got my GED :P 14:45 < ebowden> What uni did you go to? 14:45 < nmz787_i> RIT 14:45 < xentrac> Yeah, I'm not worried I'll poison myself, ebowden, but I do worry a bit about tolerance 14:45 < xentrac> nice 14:46 < ebowden> Don't worry below 4mg. 14:46 < xentrac> thanks :) 14:47 < ebowden> What's RIT? Royal Institution of Technology? 14:47 < xentrac> So what is this about brain volume increase? Do you mean methylphenidate (or amphetamine or maybe even IF/CR) expands certain reasons? 14:47 < xentrac> Rensselaer? 14:47 < ebowden> Rochester? 14:47 -!- Aurelius_Laptop [~cpopell@c-73-129-20-70.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:47 < nmz787_i> rochester 14:48 < nmz787_i> rensselaer is RPI 14:48 < ebowden> What did you do your Phd in? 14:48 < ebowden> *PhD 14:49 < nmz787_i> if you are asking me, I did an 8 year bachelors in Biotech with concentration in Bioinformatics (but actually concentrated on hobby-learning analog electronics and using Uni resources for learning micro/nano fab) 14:49 < nmz787_i> 8 years because it sucked so bad I had to take it one class at a take the last few years 14:49 < ebowden> I LOVE analogue. 14:50 < ebowden> No PhD? 14:50 < nmz787_i> nah 14:50 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-55-151-9.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:50 < nmz787_i> maybe someday 14:50 < xentrac> sorry 14:50 < ebowden> What analogue stuff do you do now? 14:50 < nmz787_i> I actually just got my degree officially in December 14:50 < ebowden> Better, cheaper CNC controls? 14:50 < xentrac> ebowden: what do you think about Camenzind's book? 14:50 < nmz787_i> I work at Intel in the analog validation dept for new products 14:50 < xentrac> you too nmz787_i 14:51 < ebowden> yayyyyy! 14:51 < nmz787_i> write software for hardware synthesis lately... lately been learning about constraints solver algorithms 14:51 < xentrac> nice 14:51 < nmz787_i> work on DNA synthesis goal-oriented equipment at night/on-weekends 14:51 < ebowden> Never heard that name. 14:51 < ebowden> \:D/ 14:51 < ebowden> Yessss! 14:51 < nmz787_i> got an electron microscope just behind me 14:51 < xentrac> I've been trying to get a handle on the whole constraint/optimization/SAT/SMT/logic-programming space 14:52 < nmz787_i> yeah I had a friend help me get into the SAT solver space 14:52 < ebowden> Who's Camenzind? 14:52 < xentrac> the 555 guy, put an ebook on the web 14:52 < xentrac> and I keep trying to wedge interval arithmetic into the constraint-solving/search space 14:53 < nmz787_i> Best successes so far are with the library Pyeda for interfacing with picosat... and for a middle-of-the-road solver approach python-constraint looks pretty OK, easy to write constraints but slow to load and solve (pure python library) 14:53 < chris_99> have you started fixing the SEM nmz787_i? 14:53 < ebowden> nmz787_i, you could build missile guidance systems. 14:53 < xentrac> doing SAT solving in pure CPython sounds like a bad idea 14:54 < nmz787_i> chris_99: most progress as of late was talking with a guy who fixed his own SEM and also made some tesla coil plasma speakers... also I bought a 45kV rated 1 or 10 gigaohm resistor 14:54 < nmz787_i> it is HUGE 14:54 < nmz787_i> xentrac: pyeda is a C++ library extension, so you generate clauses in Python then hand them to C++ 14:54 < chris_99> haha wow, that's the resistor for? 14:55 < xentrac> yeah, that sounds like a better idea 14:55 < nmz787_i> python-constraint on the other hand is pure-python, but also allows python functions to act as constraints... so you can do complex data structure calculations 14:55 < nmz787_i> chris_99: probing high-voltage if needed 14:55 < chris_99> ah neat 14:55 < xentrac> nice 14:56 < nmz787_i> http://hackerfriendly.com/tag/sem/ 14:57 < nmz787_i> that is the guy who got his working after some random person offered it to him 14:58 < chris_99> awesome 15:00 < ebowden> I suppose you'll be taking pointers. 15:00 < nmz787_i> we chatted a bit 15:00 < ebowden> Any late nights? 15:00 < ebowden> (On your hobby and job.) 15:00 < nmz787_i> he told me to get the big resistor, and start probing with a cheap volt meter 15:01 < nmz787_i> said if it is just the beam raster generator it should be pretty low voltage (sounded pretty confident less than 50V) 15:01 < nmz787_i> ebowden: missile guidance systems jobs sound like they'd pay a lot ;) 15:02 < ebowden> You're damn right they would. 15:02 < nmz787_i> but also that they'd have high stringency on formal validation (which is a skill I don't posses currently, though wouldn't be opposed to learning about.. it does sound tedious though) 15:02 < nmz787_i> and general no bugs attitude 15:03 < ebowden> I'd imagine that would require a lot of resources. 15:04 < ebowden> No line of code unchecked. 15:04 < ebowden> Sort of like NASA does. 15:04 < nmz787_i> 100% test coverage 15:05 < nmz787_i> or maybe even taking something like a SAT solver on the control flow structure of the code... to determine not just line coverage, but logic flow path coverage ??? 15:05 < ebowden> Maybe you could build missile guidance systems for the masses. 15:05 < nmz787_i> g2g eat now 15:10 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-101-180-249-107.lnse3.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:10 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:79dc:2d62:fa1e:1142] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:11 -!- sandeepkr__ [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:15 < ebowden> I wonder if there will ever be protein based recreational drugs. 15:16 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-55-151-9.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:21 < CaptHindsight> the keratin slip-n-slide! 15:28 < ebowden> CaptHindsight, for the record, was it me wasting your time or were you talking about the people that wanted seven kilos at ten thousand kilo prices? 15:36 -!- sandeepkr [~sandeep@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:37 < CaptHindsight> people that don't value their own time so they don't value anyone's 15:38 < CaptHindsight> or expect you to pay for 200kg of raw materials to make their 10kg and charge them for only 10kg 15:39 -!- Aurelius_Laptop [~cpopell@c-73-129-20-70.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 15:42 < ebowden> Ah, so it wasn't about my asking about the feasibility of making LM11A-31 at low cost? 15:42 < ebowden> (Given its structure.) 15:48 < ebowden> It's a 4-substituted morpholine. 15:48 -!- Aurelius_Laptop [~cpopell@c-73-129-20-70.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:51 < ebowden> Ooooh: http://www.cnchemicals.com/Press/82501-China:Falling%20price%20of%20diethanolamine%20hard%20to%20support%20glyphosate%20price%20in%202015%20.html 15:51 < ebowden> From that, morpholine is made. 15:54 < ebowden> Maybe the price has recovered already. 16:03 < ebowden> Well, 4-ethylmorpholine is normally pretty cheap. 16:13 < ebowden> This is a tempting precursor, but expensive. 16:13 < ebowden> https://www.alfa.com/en/catalog/B21365/ 16:15 < ebowden> This is considerably cheaper, but it might be a pain in the ass to synth the compound from: 16:15 < ebowden> https://www.alfa.com/en/catalog/A11905/ 16:37 -!- Aurelius_Laptop [~cpopell@c-73-129-20-70.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:40 -!- Aurelius_Laptop [~cpopell@c-73-129-20-70.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:48 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:22 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-athrwlcgtgbcqolm] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:28 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:79dc:2d62:fa1e:1142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28 -!- redlegion [~x@unaffiliated/redlegion] has quit [Quit: Time for me to pass out.] 17:36 < kanzure> looks like a manga artist gets $1k yen/page 17:38 < kanzure> which is about $10 17:41 -!- jtimon [~quassel@55.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:52 -!- CuriousCat [~CuriousCa@unaffiliated/wye-naught/x-8734122] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:10 < kanzure> nothing about this is realistic http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/sites/default/files/upload/0716CW_The-Crucible_300m.jpg 18:25 -!- Aurelius_Laptop [~cpopell@c-73-129-20-70.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:29 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:fdff:6568:efa:bb4b] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:29 -!- CuriousCat [~CuriousCa@unaffiliated/wye-naught/x-8734122] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:31 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:fdff:6568:efa:bb4b] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:38b6:8cdd:fa7c:909e] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:43 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:38b6:8cdd:fa7c:909e] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:2589:4907:83f0:9f2a] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:10 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:2589:4907:83f0:9f2a] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:12 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:bdcf:78bb:df88:a6b7] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:26 < nmz787_i> ebowden: I think the chemical in miracle berries is a glycoprotein... and I know people have been known to use miracle berry extract as a central element to food parties (so you might say it is a party drug, I guess) 19:27 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-159-235-57.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:27 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:bdcf:78bb:df88:a6b7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:27 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-184-73-66-2.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:27 -!- Aurelius_Laptop [~cpopell@c-73-129-20-70.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:27 -!- augur [~augur@76-218-206-38.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:29 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:785a:c154:c046:62fc] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:29 < nmz787_i> took my buddy on a tour of Norsam, got to see some pipettes get pulled on the Sutter machine 19:30 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:785a:c154:c046:62fc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54 < nmz787_i> .tell chris_99 have you heard of this audio/DSP library/language/tool http://faust.grame.fr/download/ ? 19:54 < yoleaux> nmz787_i: I'll pass your message to chris_99. 19:54 < nmz787_i> .title 19:54 < yoleaux> Download 19:54 < nmz787_i> .wik faust 19:54 < yoleaux> "Faust is the protagonist of a classic German legend. He is a scholar who is highly successful yet dissatisfied with his life, which leads him to make a pact with the Devil, exchanging his soul for unlimited knowledge and worldly pleasures." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faust 19:54 < nmz787_i> .wik faust software 19:54 < yoleaux> nmz787_i: Sorry, that command (.wik) crashed. 19:55 < nmz787_i> .wik FAUST (programming language) 19:55 < yoleaux> "FAUST (Functional AUdio STream) is a domain-specific purely functional programming language for implementing signal processing algorithms in the form of libraries, audio plug-ins, or standalone applications. A FAUST program denotes a signal processor: a mathematical function that is applied to some input signal and then fed out." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAUST_(programming_language) 19:55 -!- CuriousCat [~CuriousCa@unaffiliated/wye-naught/x-8734122] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:58 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:c465:a26f:371c:7602] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:00 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:c465:a26f:371c:7602] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:752f:e635:9e2:9acf] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:08 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:752f:e635:9e2:9acf] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:10 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:8015:b946:6b7f:beda] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:11 -!- CuriousCat [~CuriousCa@2602:30a:2c94:5460:947a:459c:211b:42b2] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:11 -!- CuriousCat [~CuriousCa@2602:30a:2c94:5460:947a:459c:211b:42b2] has quit [Changing host] 20:11 -!- CuriousCat [~CuriousCa@unaffiliated/wye-naught/x-8734122] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:12 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:8015:b946:6b7f:beda] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16 -!- Aurelius_Laptop [~cpopell@c-73-129-20-70.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:16 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:d3f:decf:975:9aff] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:26 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:d3f:decf:975:9aff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37 < xentrac> 22:05 < ebowden> Maybe you could build missile guidance systems for the masses. 20:39 < xentrac> I think this would be a bad idea; it is a more imminent threat of ending civilization than Bitcoin or AGI 20:41 -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jaehujnszxvzkgix] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20:41 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-101-180-249-107.lnse3.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:01 < nmz787> xentrac: well that kind of thinking won't prevent the missile guidance system development already underway... I guess it is a cost:benefit thing... would learning missile guidance principals be more useful post that-project than bitcoin or AGI skills would be 21:01 < nmz787> you can use missiles against rogue AGI 21:04 -!- mz_o_ [~drop_shot@68.232.180.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:04 -!- mz_o_ [~drop_shot@68.232.180.123] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:04 < ebowden> CaptHindsight, how expensive are Grignard reactions on larger scales? Does it sometimes end up more practical to do them solventless due to all the anhydrous stuff you'd need? 21:08 < ebowden> I suppose solventless can be great if you want it more "green". 21:14 -!- CuriousCat is now known as CuriouScat 21:27 -!- CaptHindsight [~2020@unaffiliated/capthindsight] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Leaving"] 21:34 < xentrac> nmz787: sure, my grandfather designed missile guidance systems in the 1950s 21:35 < xentrac> there are a significant number of missile guidance systems already killing people 21:36 < xentrac> but most of them are in the hands of entities that are vulnerable to retaliation, like, say, the Iranian military. distributing missile guidance software to random Iranians would likely lead to much bigger problems 21:38 < xentrac> I mean I think you can make a reasonable case that the Bronze Age Collapse was likely due to new military tactics that strongly favored attack over defense, and it would be nice to see if we can hold off the collapse of our current civilization for, say, ten years, so that we can build up resilience 21:39 < xentrac> not, I think, to rogue AGI, although I could be wrong 22:00 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: catern, nanotube, Proteus, Jenda`, yorick, xentrac, mz_o_, Regex_, rancyd_, harold, (+10 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 22:01 -!- adamg [~akg@50.242.93.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:08 -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@185.66.253.126] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:08 < nmz787> I guess you could also say that learning about missile guidance systems would allow you to mount effective defenses against them (or provide insight to those people) 22:15 < ebowden> Or just design better ones. 22:19 < nmz787> is your dad teaching online courses? 22:19 < nmz787> :) 22:19 < ebowden> No. Why do you ask? 22:20 < nmz787> just since you mentioned he did that kind of development 22:20 < nmz787> oh 22:20 < nmz787> sorry, your grandfather 22:20 < nmz787> derp 22:21 < ebowden> xentrac said his grandfather did it. 22:22 < ebowden> My grandfather worked in surface physics. 22:22 < kanzure> hm 22:32 -!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-155-69.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:36 < nmz787> oh, sorry, I am not concentrating and am tired... reading about multitasking in micropython 22:36 < nmz787> ebowden: that sounds pretty cool though... my grandfathers were: trucker; road-builder (heavy equipment operator) 22:51 < ebowden> My other grandfather was a soldier, then a miner and union rep. 22:55 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2602:306:35fa:d500:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:05 < nmz787> I guess the trucker was in the army 23:06 < ebowden> Ok. 23:22 -!- adamg [~akg@50.242.93.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:25 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-101-180-249-107.lnse3.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:d3f:decf:975:9aff] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:28 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:d3f:decf:975:9aff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:752d:95b0:ffe5:dd98] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:39 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:752d:95b0:ffe5:dd98] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:41 -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@185.66.253.126] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:43 -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@185.66.253.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:45 -!- Jenda` [~bablbam@dekatron.hrach.eu] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Sun Jul 10 00:00:53 2016