--- Log opened Tue Jul 12 00:00:54 2016
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01:51 < ebowden_> CaptHindsight, would you be interested in novel high strength resins, or are you primarily interested in selling the stuff you already make, rather than innovating?
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02:25 < CaptHindsight> ebowden: just out of curiosity, autism, aspergers, somewhere else on the spectrum?
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03:53 < fenn> "Self-driving cars are already being tested on the road, but tricky questions about their ethics remain. Should autonomous vehicles protect their passengers at all costs? Or should they be programmed to sacrifice their passengers, if it means protecting others?"
03:53 < fenn> "Shouldn't the car have a fast enough processor to search each at risk person on social media/popular background check websites and weigh their value to society- both current and potential future value? Then make a more educated decision?"
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03:54 < CaptHindsight> value based on what value system?
03:55 < fenn> i guess it's not as funny out of context
03:55 < CaptHindsight> in China it would aim for women
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04:43 < maaku> CaptHindsight: in China it would "hit to kill"
04:45 < maaku> fenn: http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/self-driving-car-ethics
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05:59 < mz_o_> Hey anyone going to 2600 Hope Con?
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07:42 < kanzure> CaptHindsight: re: known genetic disorder stuff, see snpwiki
07:43 < kanzure> fenn: self-driving cars if they have any "kill which people?" algorithms will be hacked to hell and back by their own owners to kill everyone except their owners.
07:50 < c0rw1n-> if they're not made fucktardedly they'll just organize to fucking stop before obstacles, how is that even hard fuxakes
07:55 < maaku> kanzure: or cosmic ray hits utility function and it switches from 'minimize human deaths' to 'maximize human deaths'
07:57 < TMA> the death minimization feature will be on only during standardized test conditions, otherwise it will be switched off
08:01 < kanzure> .title http://www.wbur.org/commonhealth/2016/07/11/caution-brain-hacking
08:01 < yoleaux> Caution, May Backfire: Neuroscientists' Open Letter To DIY Brain Hackers | CommonHealth
08:02 < kanzure> seems to be about tdcs
08:02 < ebowden_> lol
08:04 < mz_o_> let other people be your guinea pigs
08:05 < mz_o_> crazy that people administer sessions to their kids though
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08:06 < kanzure> yeah the right thing to do would be to use *other* people's kids, not your own
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08:09 < fenn> sarcasm detected
08:10 < kanzure> no way, you want to test on something replaceable- there are way more kids that aren't your own.
08:13 < ebowden_> You see, when it's OTHER peoples' kids, it's totes legit.
08:17 < fenn> .title http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ana.24689/full
08:17 < yoleaux> An open letter concerning do-it-yourself users of transcranial direct current stimulation - Wurzman - 2016 - Annals of Neurology - Wiley Online Library
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09:42 < maaku> The e MIT CSAIL building is weird for seemingly no purpose at all.
09:43 < maaku> Whoever thought designing a building to match an Escher sketch is seriously confused
09:45 < chris_99> haha wow
09:45 < chris_99> i'd not seen that before
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09:54 < nmz787_i> etch-a-sketch
09:54 < nmz787_i> ?
09:59 < kanzure> maaku: if you go to the media lab they have a giant picture of marvin minsky's house. for no reason.
10:16 < CaptHindsight> kanzure: let me know if you find one with all the unknowns that doesn't require a time mashine  :)
10:16 < kanzure> that's unreasonable
10:17 < kanzure> oops i meant snpedia not snpwiki
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10:39 < maaku> It makes even less sense from the inside with spiral staircases at random places, mismatched floors, no line of sight, and variable height roofs...
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11:14 < TMA> maaku: I have learned that the strong emotions caused by a piece of architecture are the hallmark of a great architectural achievement -- somehow confusion and hatred are the preferred emotions in the last decades
11:16 < TMA> maaku: that's reportedly the belief of the architects
11:17 < nmz787_i> grumble grumble... I hate the state of dentistry... why don't we have shark teeth where they just renew all the time
11:18 < nmz787_i> or stem cell chewing gum
11:19 < kanzure> .wik teixobactin
11:19 < yoleaux> "Teixobactin /ˌteɪks.oʊ.ˈbæk.tɪn/ is a small molecule antibiotic that is active against gram-positive bacteria. It appears to belong to a new class of antibiotics, and harms bacteria by binding to lipid II and lipid III, important precursor molecules for forming the cell wall. Its discovery was announced in early 2015 in the journal Nature." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teixobactin
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11:23 < maaku> TMA: meh. Buildings are suppose to serve a purpose. If I get lost twice and arrive at a workshop late because it is beyond confusing, somebody failed.
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11:35 < nmz787_i> anyone know any unorthodox dentists?
11:35 < nmz787_i> I want a CT scan of my teeth
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11:39 < chris_99> heh
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11:42 < chris_99> DIY your own CT scanner like Krasnow
11:42 < nmz787_i> well I actually have a tooth issue
11:42 < nmz787_i> but the dentists are all "this isn't indicated for your issue"
11:42 < chris_99> ah darn
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11:48 < nmz787_i> and the visible-color camera they used inside my mouth... it sucks, it is obviously not a global shutter, and even looks like it is an interlaced image
11:48 < nmz787_i> like wtf, this is 2016
11:49 < chris_99> how does a global shutter actually work, is it a mechanical thing or..?
11:49 < nmz787_i> nah
11:49 < nmz787_i> I think it requires more electrical traces on the chip, to equalize phase delay or something
11:50 < nmz787_i> of when to sample the pixels
11:50 < nmz787_i> rolling shutter is more like a bucket-brigade, one pixel after another sampling and storing the reading
11:50 < chris_99> rolling shutter is line-by-line right from a CCD iirc? i'm not sure how CMOS differs
11:51 < chris_99> oh wait, maybe that is CMOS
11:51 < chris_99> apparently CCD can have a global shutter
11:51 < nmz787_i> sure
11:52 < nmz787_i> I think they both can
11:52 < nmz787_i> CCD is easier simply because there is less stuff on the chip in general
11:52 < nmz787_i> or at least historically
11:52 < chris_99> but i'm still confused how they actually make a global shutter, as how can read out everything at a single instance, is it just a case of reading all lines at the same time
11:53 < nmz787_i> it isn't reading it OUT at the same time, it is sampling the pixels at the same time
11:53 < nmz787_i> once you have the pixels stored, light isn't affecting them any longer
11:53 < nmz787_i> and you can slowly read them OUT of the imager
11:53 < nmz787_i> or pump them out, whatever
11:53 < chris_99> ok that makes sense, but how do you stop other light
11:53 < chris_99> entering in
11:54 < nmz787_i> CMOS imagers generally have a digitizer for each pixel too
11:54 < nmz787_i> in a CCD, the charge built-up in the pixel just gets shifted to the side, in a non-photosensitive charge-store
11:54 < chris_99> ahhh
11:54 < chris_99> cheers, that makes sense
11:55 < chris_99> why do we still have mechanical shutters then, out of interest
11:56 < nmz787_i> probably some advantage I am not remembering... but they allow a rolling shutter to effectively have a global shutter
11:56 < nmz787_i> so I guess sensor mfgs cheap-out, shutter mfgs get their cut of the camera product or whatever
11:56 < chris_99> heh yeah
11:56 < nmz787_i> also most people are fine with rolling shutter
11:56 < TMA> nmz787_i: I do not know the details of your insurance but based on the overall cost differential between the USA and eastern european countries you might be better of travelling and having the CT made overseas (maybe even the actual treatment)
11:57 < nmz787_i> you mostly can't tell unless you have high-speed video
11:57 < nmz787_i> TMA I saw a price on google that some local clinic was giving a free CT scan worth $700
11:57 < nmz787_i> idk the details of the 'free' scan... probably only if you get $20k of braces or something
11:58 < nmz787_i> but $700 for tooth-related maintenance could be seen as like $2 a day for a year.... so if insurance wouldn't cover, I guess I could still pay for it myself...
11:58 < nmz787_i> seems like $2/day is worth it
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12:10 < TMA> nmz787_i: tooth filling is about $40, CBCT is $60 from what I have found
12:10 < nmz787_i> TMA: what country?
12:10 < TMA> nmz787_i: implants are more expensive (on the $1000 mark)
12:11 < TMA> nmz787_i: Czechia (The Czech Republic)
12:11 < nmz787_i> hrmm
12:11 < maaku> heh, can't walk into a dentist office without spending >$60 in the USA
12:11 < nmz787_i> what other reasons do I have to go over there?
12:11 < maaku> nmz787_i: Prague is a beautiful city
12:12 < nmz787_i> yeah I am pretty sure seeing the 'assistant' for ~20-25 mins total, and the doctor for maybe 15, 2 xrays... bill is probably $150
12:12 < TMA> my aunt that lives in switzerland has come to have the implants made here because it was cheaper even though it is not covered by her insurance
12:14 < nmz787_i> TMA: hmm, I will have to do some research on medical standards, success rates, infection rates, etc around the world
12:14 < TMA> nmz787_i: also, if you like beer, we have one of the best ones
12:15 < maaku> budweiser is pretty good
12:15 < nmz787_i> I am hesitant as it is here in the US, which is so expensive because they are so scared of something going wrong (presumably)
12:15 < TMA> maaku: not the american one. in the USA it is available as Czechvar
12:15 < maaku> i am aware :)
12:16 < chris_99> im pretty sure i had a black budweiser in Austria
12:16 < chris_99> that was nice
12:16 < nmz787_i> maaku: reading a wiki on czech beers, mentions budweiser... confirmed you don't mean the american one
12:16 < nmz787_i>  (i was like, what???)
12:16 < maaku> nmz787_i: that is not why things are expensive in the US
12:16 < nmz787_i> I thought it was all liability
12:16 < maaku> you will find better medical care at rediculously cheap prices outside of north america
12:17 < maaku> nmz787_i: it's mostly your dentist's Porche and summar house
12:17 < maaku> (or, he would argue, his student loans)
12:21 < TMA> nmz787_i: Europe is arguably more civilized than North America (as mesured by the abundance of wildlife dangerous to humans) -- wolves and bears are mostly extinct, there are no more any lions roaming freely in Europe (they were still present ~2500 years ago) :)
12:21 < maaku> TMA: as an environmentalist that's not a plus :P
12:22 < maaku> "we're more civilized because we killed all our large animals" doesn't seem coherent in my ethical system
12:22 < nmz787_i> maaku: is isn't really an ethical statement though
12:23 < maaku> "civilized" is an ethical judement in this context
12:23 < TMA> maaku: that's quite a recent view -- up to a hundred years ago a wilderness was thought of as an uncivilized territory
12:23 < nmz787_i> civilization is just a human construct, more than animalistic constructs??? so it needn't be good or bad... just more complex?
12:24 < nmz787_i> the definition for civil could have this conversation go either way
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12:27 < nmz787_i> hmm, ticket to prague is >$1500
12:28 < nmz787_i> not sure I'd save on this trip... but I still don't have a CT scan plan here
12:28 < TMA> nmz787_i: back to the medical standards: I think that they are prettyy good in most of EU. Poland, CZ, Slovakia, Hungary are probably on par with the standards available in the USA
12:28 < TMA> nmz787_i: from where?
12:28 < nmz787_i> PDX, USA
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12:44 < TMA> nmz787_i: about $850 in november -- starting in prague -- there are probably better deals available from time to time
12:46 < TMA> nmz787_i: also, new york is regulary available for third the price -- if yoy can get to NYC (and back) for less than $1000 you might be better off
12:47 < abetusk> .title http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ana.24689/references
12:47 < yoleaux> An open letter concerning do-it-yourself users of transcranial direct current stimulation - Wurzman - 2016 - Annals of Neurology - Wiley Online Library
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13:00 < superkuh> Hah. An open letter behind a paywall. Nice.
13:00 < superkuh> Oh, wait, nevermind.
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13:26 < maaku> or alternatively fly into paris, or frankfurt or somewhere else that's cheap and get a bus to where you need to be in europe
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13:57 < nmz787_i> TMA: I don't want to wait until November though... so I guess I will just use this as justification to complain to the next dentist I see
13:59 < nmz787_i> hmm, I should look for a dentist who knows about Weston A. Price
14:11 < nmz787_i> http://hackaday.com/2016/07/12/make-your-own-transparent-wood/
14:11 < nmz787_i> hmm, microchannels
14:12 < nmz787_i> 'this is my naturally-grown-free-range-wood-based microfluidic'
14:18 < TMA> oh, it seems that H2O2 (30%) is still legal somewhere
14:20 < nmz787_i> yeah I think you can get it here at hardware stores
14:20 < nmz787_i> I think my farmer friends used some of that in their stock tank they use for birthing their children
14:21 < nmz787_i> (for sanitation)
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14:22 < chris_99> TMA, i think i've seen that on ebay
14:22 < chris_99> iirc
14:22 < TMA> we used to have it available too. then some shitheads used it to make acetonperoxide explosives and now it's illegal without a permit
14:23 < chris_99> oh maybe i'm wrong, i think i'm seeing 12% at the mo
14:23 < TMA> it was quite ordinary part of hair dyes (a small bottle of peroxide and the dye: mix, apply, wait, rinse)
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14:25 < chris_99> i've heard of people boiling the water out of it, but i guess that's not too safe heh
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14:28 < TMA> if making explosives is illegal in itself, why there is any need to ban the precursors? after all if anyone intends to make illegal explosives, he will be breaking the law for which he can be punished anyway
14:28 < chris_99> exactly
14:31 < TMA> that's probably a fine example of thoughtcrime -- "do not question the autority" being the violated '''law'''
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15:17 < ybit_> hmm
15:17 < ybit_> https://www.livecoding.tv/
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16:35 < maaku> Ther should be an open letter to neurologists explaining the proactionary principle
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16:46 < nildicit> is proactionary still a thing, maaku
16:46 < nildicit> I remember reading about quite a bit a couple years ago; not much now afaik
16:46 < nildicit> *about it
16:47 < kanzure> max more is still alive, if that's what you're asking
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16:47 < nildicit> it seems like him and natasha have been so quiet these past two/three years
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16:48 < kanzure> he's alcor ceo, busy with all the bodies and such
16:56 < kanzure> she was doing some c elegans vitrification/memory things
17:00 < maaku> nildicit: not sure what you're asking?
17:03 < nildicit> I haven't seen the proactionary principle really being discussed in transhumanist circles as of late
17:03 < nildicit> amon twyman has tried encompassing some extropian tenets in his notions of "social futurism" but I've yet to see much extrapolation on that
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17:08 < kanzure> "“Unfocus” on foc.us: commercial tDCS headset impairs working memory" http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00221-015-4391-9
17:09 < nildicit> I dunno; I'm curious whether or not the current climate really necessitates an explanation
17:09 < kanzure> "In this study, we tested whether the commercial transcranial direct current stimulation (tDCS) headset foc.us improves cognitive performance, as advertised in the media. A single-blind, sham-controlled, within-subject design was used to assess the effect of online and off-line foc.us tDCS—applied over the prefrontal cortex in healthy young volunteers (n = 24) on working memory (WM) updating and monitoring. WM updating and monitoring, ...
17:09 < nildicit> feel like it'd amount to more confusion
17:09 < kanzure> ... as assessed by means of the N-back task, is a cognitive-control process that has been shown to benefit from interventions with CE-certified tDCS devices. For both online and off-line stimulation protocols, results showed that active stimulation with foc.us, compared to sham stimulation, significantly decreased accuracy performance in a well-established task tapping WM updating and monitoring. These results provide evidence for the ...
17:09 < kanzure> ... important role of the scientific community in validating and testing far-reaching claims made by the brain training industry."
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18:55 < kanzure> yashgaroth: sup
18:57 < yashgaroth> coordinating with jojack on setting up in the lab, might be able to get another tenant to order from thermo so I can avoid incorporating for now
18:58 < yashgaroth> which'd be nice since an LLC takes a month and $500, plus $800 per year in CA
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18:59 < kanzure> is he ever going to fix his brain cancer?
19:02 < yashgaroth> which cancer are you referring to
19:02 < kanzure> he has a brain tumor
19:02 < yashgaroth> wait is this a metaphor or
19:02 < kanzure> serious medical issue that he has been ignoring for a while
19:02 < kanzure> thought you knew
19:03 < yashgaroth> no, when we talk it's usually to bitch about other people
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19:04 < yashgaroth> well fuck ok
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19:12 < kanzure> yeah..... we should roofie him and put him in a scanner sometime.
19:12 < kanzure> or uh, ask
19:12 < yashgaroth> well if he knows he has it then I assume he's already had symptoms
19:13 < yashgaroth> there's a new proton therapy center here that just opened, stick him in that after
19:13 < kanzure> it must not be grwong fast, bcause i haven't heard aobut it in a long time
19:13 < kanzure> or perhaps it's not growing at all
19:13 < yashgaroth> if it's been a long time then I guess it's benign, not that that can be easily said for brain tumors
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21:24 < nmz787> ybit_: I just came across that livecoding.tv a day or two ago myself, via someone's stackoverflow profile
21:24 < cynsia> cool
21:27 < nmz787> TMA: so the quote from the dentist is /just/ under my insurance limit... I almost feel like getting my girlfriend to do some work with a dremel or similar-dental-industry tool
21:27 < nmz787> TMA: something like $1800... for grinding my tooth into a post, then fitting a (supposedly) zirconia cap '
21:27 < nmz787> 'crown'
21:28 < nmz787> which eliminates any potential for stem cell therapy on that tooth, I think
21:29 < nmz787> or at least I think the whole 'kill the root' root canal procedure (which they say after grinding a bit, could become necessary) seems like it would disallow stem cell treatments in the future
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21:40 < fenn> don't worry we'll grow you a new 3d printed tooth from scratch
21:43 < nmz787> hrmm
21:43 < nmz787> well, yes
21:43 < nmz787> I guess I have considered that
21:43 < nmz787> I think I used the word conspiracy when I was talking to the dentist today, hehe
21:43 < gourneau> There are sometimes some pretty good codecasts on Twitch too
21:45 < kanzure> cynsia: hi welcome
21:46 < kanzure> nmz787: talk with juri_ about tooth/jaw problems, she has put a lot of thought into those problems
21:49 < nmz787> yeah I thought of that
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21:52 < kanzure> probably the "grow multiple sets of teeth" thing will be figured out at some point
21:59 < kanzure> https://www.reddit.com/r/tdcs/wiki/devices
22:00 < kanzure> http://tdcsplacements.com/
22:00 < kanzure> http://thebrainstimulator.net/shop/
22:01 < kanzure> https://speakwisdom.wordpress.com/
22:02 < kanzure> http://www.diytdcs.com/2013/10/summit-on-transcranial-direct-current-stimulation-uc-davis-sept-5-2013-videos/
22:02 < fenn> i wonder how they make a 5 mA fuse
22:08 < superkuh> Current limiting diodes?
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22:09 < superkuh> I use the e-202.
22:09 < superkuh> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Semitec/E-202/?qs=wgO0AD0o1vtsf3eUHD2UhA%3D%3D
22:10 < superkuh> I mean, I don't do tdcs as tdcs, just vestibular stuff. Currently using the esp8266 as the microcontroller driving an L293 with an LM334 as the current source.
22:10 < kanzure> .title http://jlb.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2015/10/12/jlb.lsv039.full
22:10 < yoleaux> A pragmatic analysis of the regulation of consumer transcranial direct current stimulation (TDCS) devices in the United States
22:11 < kanzure> "Evidence that transcranial direct current stimulation (tDCS) generates little-to-no reliable neurophysiologic effect beyond MEP amplitude modulation in healthy human subjects: A systematic review" http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0028393214004394
22:11 < superkuh> I'd believe that. It's so grossly diffuse and non-specific.
22:11 < kanzure> http://www.wired.com/2014/05/diy-brain-stimulation/
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22:11 < kanzure> i think they would get better results if they were trying to do lesions with tdcs or something
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22:31 < kanzure> "Take the lobotomy for example, which won it's inventor (Dr. Egas Moniz) the Nobel Peace Prize" http://motherboard.vice.com/read/a-history-of-the-lobotomy
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--- Log closed Wed Jul 13 00:00:55 2016