--- Log opened Sun Aug 21 00:00:31 2016 00:01 -!- ihaq [anoncicada@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-xpjtemxzglwqtjvu] has quit [Quit: faggory daggory doo!] 00:41 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:42 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:99c:56c1:3eb9:7b97] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:42 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:99c:56c1:3eb9:7b97] has quit [Changing host] 00:42 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:47 -!- zeysmo [iM64ovm2tn@columba.uberspace.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:56 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:7537:f4f0:36fb:bb7b] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:00 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:7537:f4f0:36fb:bb7b] has quit [Changing host] 01:00 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:02 -!- PatrickRobotham 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has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:50 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:53 < chris_99> http://sensl.com/ is interesting, i didn't know you could get silicon photomultipliers commercially 04:17 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:17 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:a17c:2dd4:7592:ad53] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:17 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:a17c:2dd4:7592:ad53] has quit [Changing host] 04:17 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:28 -!- anoncicada [anoncicada@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-lsnurnkrkdgohpok] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:47 -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-178-005-223-183.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:31 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:32 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:39c4:9cb3:c3c9:8ff] has joined 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##hplusroadmap 07:11 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:dda2:985:3d53:d791] has quit [Changing host] 07:11 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:41 -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-178-005-223-183.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:53 -!- anoncicada [anoncicada@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-lsnurnkrkdgohpok] has quit [Quit: faggory daggory doo!] 07:57 -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-178-005-223-183.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:05 < kanzure> hmm. 08:08 -!- Jawmare [~Jawmare@unaffiliated/jawmare] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:09 -!- Filosofem [~Jawmare@unaffiliated/jawmare] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:09 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:14 -!- Sooka [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:24 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:35 -!- irseeyou 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[anoncicada@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-udbgtidsefpkkkrk] has quit [Changing host] 10:58 -!- anoncicada [anoncicada@unaffiliated/anarcanon] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:58 -!- anoncicada [anoncicada@unaffiliated/anarcanon] has quit [Changing host] 10:58 -!- anoncicada [anoncicada@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-udbgtidsefpkkkrk] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:06 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:10 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:11 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:39 < maaku> must assume tor is now compromised :( 11:40 -!- nildicit_ [~nildicit@unaffiliated/nildicit] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:40 -!- nildicit_ [~nildicit@unaffiliated/nildicit] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 11:46 < superkuh> I don't think so. But I think the type of naturally occurring cultural infection causing the drama will leave it open to outside compromise. 11:48 < maaku> eh, character assasination in the court of public opinion, followed by a cabal of the accursors taking over displaced positions of power? 11:48 < maaku> it's classic strategy for organization compromise 11:51 -!- irseeyou [~irseeyou@c-67-168-101-20.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:53 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Quit: text1] 11:57 < kanzure> yep 12:01 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:f03a:fc32:3a73:da6] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:01 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:f03a:fc32:3a73:da6] has quit [Changing host] 12:01 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:03 < nmz787_> well if tor is so affected by politics or bitchfests (I have no idea what you guys are talking about aside from the history of comments I've seen in here)... then seems like that software wasn't very 'secure' to begin with. 12:05 < maaku> nmz787_: we're talking about the organization, not the software 12:05 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:06 < maaku> but tor was never so trustless... you trust the organization to gate new relay and exit nodes 12:06 < maaku> so an organizational compromise IS a compromise of tor the software 12:08 < chris_99> what kind of changes to the software could they make, that wouldn't be obvious 12:08 < maaku> none. they don't need to. you're anonymity of tor is due to the presumed independence and honesty of the relay network, which is hand crafted by the tor organization (your node downloads a signed list of relay nodes) 12:09 < chris_99> hmm, anyone can be a relay node right 12:10 < chris_99> so it's not just the tor people you trust 12:10 < maaku> chris_99: tor clients download a list of reliable relay nodes from master nodes controlled by the tor organization 12:10 < maaku> it is not p2p 12:10 < maaku> (Today you learned!) 12:11 < chris_99> but i thought anyone can be a relay node, like anyone can get added to it? 12:11 < maaku> if that were the case it'd be trivial to attack tor by sybil nodes 12:12 < saturn2> the process is mostly automated but the list is still controlled by the tor project 12:12 < chris_99> ah, gotcha 12:14 < nmz787_> got at least one reasonable looking image from my BRL-CAD ray-tracer interrogation method for rastering model slices 12:17 < nmz787_> now to refactor it into the python-BRLCAD-tcl library, and then work on g-code or maybe FIB output actually 12:18 < nmz787_> I wanted to try that weird metalense thing 12:19 < nmz787_> but also wanted to try the photolithography for a basic colored fluid pump... so that would require g-code 12:29 < kanzure> what makes the pump colored? 12:31 < streety> isn't the fluid colored? 12:34 < kanzure> oh. 12:34 < kanzure> but.. 12:37 < nmz787_> yeah 12:37 < nmz787_> I figured I'd have one of those 'start it up and [insert slogan of choice] becomes apparent' kind of proof of concept things 12:38 < nmz787_> huh, you could use that principle with drinking water or something, water filter output... and when algae/biofilm starts to develop your slogan could become obvious/apparent 12:39 < streety> ideas on logo? 12:39 < streety> that seems quite drawn out 12:39 < nmz787_> idk, DIYbio or hplusroadmap or something 12:39 < streety> what sort of pump were you planning on? 12:39 < nmz787_> tiny peristaltic 12:40 < nmz787_> (the water filter/biofilm idea I mentioned wouldn't have pumps... it would just be some tubes in a logo fashion in a clear material that would obviously change if any biofilm grew) 12:41 < streety> have you seen anything on hplc with the pump part of the microfluidic device? Everything I've seen uses a standard hplc pump and just connects it up to a microfluidic device 12:43 < nmz787_> hmm, well HPLC is pretty high pressure, I am pretty sure at least 10X if not 50X higher than most microfluidics... I bet there are some people experimenting with super-high-pressures in tiny environs 12:43 < nmz787_> i'd look up 'supercritical microfluidic' or 'subcritical microfluidic pump' or something 12:44 < nmz787_> this is a rendering of the pump model, with some tube 'leads' attached to each input/output: https://github.com/nmz787/python-brlcad-tcl/blob/master/examples/output/microfluidic_pump.stl 12:45 < chris_99> neat, github displays the stl 12:45 < streety> I was thinking the same 12:46 < streety> the microfluidic hplc has been something I've been thinking about recently. Not sure I will do anything with it but I'll add those keywords to my research 12:47 -!- Guest85738 [~augur@76-218-206-38.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:49 < kanzure> you can also use centrifugal force with microfluidics for separation 12:49 < kanzure> and flow fractionation and size fractionation and a few other insane things 12:49 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/ 12:49 < nmz787_> streety: I guess something to consider is hydraulic advantage... you can have a microns-scale pump, and as long as the material you neck-down (reduce the cross-section of the fluidic) can handle the pressure, I think that might work to give you higher pressures in the smaller regions (I could be totally wrong about this, I don't really have much experience with hydraulics other than bleeding brakes or clutches in automobiles) 12:54 -!- cynsia [cyn@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe79:d5d] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:54 -!- sandeepkr_ [~sandeepkr@103.49.155.114] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:55 -!- sandeepkr__ [~sandeepkr@182.75.187.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:56 < streety> I'm probably not too far off then as I was thinking along the same lines. A piston with a large area on the low pressure side and a small area on the high pressure side. Trading volume for pressure. Presumably you could have multiple stages progressively raising the pressure. 12:57 < streety> I've seen a couple of articles using a photoactivated polymer to cast the piston in situ 13:03 < nmz787_> I'd guess that model I showed might work, with low efficiency or something 13:03 < streety> would you not be limited to the pressure applied to the three cross channels? 13:05 < nmz787_> uhh, hmm... maybe you have parallelized first-stages, which then act as pump-pressure for the next stage 13:05 < nmz787_> fluidic amplifiers? you need more 'current' at lower pressure, to get high pressure but with lower 'current' 13:06 < nmz787_> or some MEMS thing 13:08 -!- sandeepkr__ [~sandeepkr@182.75.187.110] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:12 -!- sandeepkr_ [~sandeepkr@103.49.155.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:19 < kanzure> genehacker was in here a few days ago wanting to do a fluidic radio thingy 13:23 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:23 < chris_99> fluidic radio thing? 13:28 < kanzure> yeah at least some have been done with liquid metal stuff 13:29 < chris_99> ahh 13:29 < kanzure> i don't seem to have any references on this. how embarrassing. 13:33 < kanzure> 13:30 < genehacker> so we can build a probe that has some fluidic logic and sensors and stuff and it can do science 13:33 < kanzure> 13:30 < genehacker> problem is getting data back 13:33 < kanzure> 13:31 < genehacker> so I'm thinking maybe I can use said fluidics to modulate the radar cross section of said probe 13:33 < kanzure> 13:32 < genehacker> so we can hit it with radar, look at how the cross section changes and get data back 13:33 < kanzure> hmm that's not usually what he's on about 13:34 < nmz787_> I responded to him too 13:34 < nmz787_> didn't find too much on the terms I searched, but didn't spend too much and it was probably late 13:34 < pasky> kanzure: sorry behind polar circle now, but never really worked with multiple gpus 13:34 < chris_99> oh interesting, so the RF would tell you the parts of the chip with fluid in? 13:36 -!- FourFire [~fourfire@81.4.122.176] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:36 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/Stretchable%20microfluidic%20radiofrequency%20antennas.pdf 13:36 < kanzure> chris_99: for genehacker's radar idea, yes it seems to be something like "cause large-scale structural changes that can be detected by [orbital?] radar" 13:37 < chris_99> gotcha. Ive seen those mercury antennas before, they sound really interesting 13:38 < kanzure> "A reconfigurable liquid metal antenna driven by electrochemically controlled capillarity" https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mohammad_Khan157/publication/277929374_A_reconfigurable_liquid_metal_antenna_driven_by_electrochemically_controlled_capillarity/links/55e6374208aec74dbe74e535.pdf 13:40 < jcorgan> you probably don't need to go to such great lengths 13:41 < jcorgan> RFIDs signal data bits by changing their impedance, causing a reflected wave to be modulated 13:41 < jcorgan> http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1276306 13:42 < jcorgan> so you could probably adapt such a technique for this, but with either this or traditional radar the signal power required would be enormous 13:45 < nmz787_> chris_99: have you heard of RF retroreflectors? 13:45 < chris_99> i don't think so 13:46 < nmz787_> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAai6dRAtFo 13:46 < yoleaux> DEF CON 22 - Michael Ossmann - The NSA Playset: RF Retroreflectors - YouTube 13:46 < kanzure> jcorgan: genehacker was thinking about venus in particular 13:46 < chris_99> nmz787_, cheers, will have a looky 13:47 < kanzure> pasky: looks like, for multi-gpu data parallelism (multi-gpu training), folks are just averaging all the weights together.... i feel highly uncomfortable about this. 13:48 < nmz787_> where do I get this? http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2540485 13:48 < nmz787_> .title 13:48 < yoleaux> 403 - Forbidden Access to The Digital Library 13:48 < nmz787_> " 13:48 < nmz787_> Accelerated robust point cloud registration in natural environments through positive and unlabeled learning" 13:48 < kanzure> nmz787_: http://www2.ift.ulaval.ca/~pgiguere/papers/IJCAI2013.pdf 13:48 < nmz787_> oh, http://www.aaai.org/ocs/index.php/IJCAI/IJCAI13/paper/download/6848/7076 13:49 < jcorgan> or just add .sci-hub.bz to url domain 13:49 < chris_99> nmz787_, oh interesting, so you energise a circuit, and it emits RF back? 13:49 < chris_99> is that kind of what RFID does? 13:49 < jcorgan> very similar 13:51 < nmz787_> man, I really need to get a wall-poster or math symbols to be able to translate these kind of papers to python, etc 13:51 < nmz787_> wall-poster OF math symbols 13:51 < jcorgan> the signal received by an antenna will be re-radiated back out at an amplitude and phase dependent on the impedance of the circuit it is attached to 13:53 < nmz787_> huh, very cool 13:53 < chris_99> oh, this is the thing, where they use a high power CW transmitter 13:53 < chris_99> right? 13:53 < jcorgan> yes 13:53 < chris_99> ah yeah i think i recall it now 13:54 < jcorgan> think of the RFID tag you use for highway tolls collection 13:54 < nmz787_> if I made some kind of microfluidic, I think mossmann is local enough that I could find him/someone he works with to test out i.e. saltwater vs normal water 13:54 < chris_99> nmz787_, check this http://arxiv.org/abs/1606.01196 'The Desktop Muon Detector' uses SiPM apparently 13:55 < nmz787_> like a pulse train of salinity 13:56 < nmz787_> hmm, what is the sensor? 13:56 < nmz787_> from sensl.com ? 13:57 < chris_99> i think so 13:58 -!- Guest85738 is now known as augur 13:58 < nmz787_> huh 13:58 < chris_99> it's a SiPM 13:59 < nmz787_> it might be worth trying one of those with some phosphor to make a monochromator or something 13:59 < nmz787_> (or for my xray detection project) 13:59 < chris_99> oh cool, do you have an x-ray tube? 14:00 < nmz787_> nah, but FIB beams induce bremstralung x-ray formation 14:02 < chris_99> ah interesting, do FIB machines, detect x-rays?, i thought they used an electron gun and detected electrons 14:03 < nmz787_> if you have an x-ray detector they both can (FIB or SEM) 14:03 < chris_99> and you mean you can get an image of what you're scanning with that? 14:04 < nmz787_> SEM shoots electrons which interact and cause photons to be emitted, FIB shoots atoms which posses electrons which upon impact interact with the electrons of the impacted material and then photons are emitted 14:04 < chris_99> yeah, i mean the x-rays, you can obtain images with that? 14:05 < nmz787_> well image is usually detected with electrons... but there are definitely direct-ion imagers/detectors (since ions are charged) 14:05 < nmz787_> you can make an x-ray emission map, sure 14:05 < chris_99> ah neat 14:05 < nmz787_> and call it am image 14:05 < nmz787_> .wik x-ray microprobe 14:05 < yoleaux> nmz787_: Sorry, that command (.wik) crashed. 14:06 < nmz787_> .wik Electron microprobe 14:06 < yoleaux> "An electron microprobe (EMP), also known as an electron probe microanalyzer (EPMA) or electron micro probe analyzer (EMPA), is an analytical tool used to non-destructively determine the chemical composition of small volumes of solid materials." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_microprobe 14:06 < chris_99> cool, never heard of that before 14:07 < nmz787_> slower but more resolution: Energy-dispersive X-ray spectroscopy 14:07 < nmz787_> .wik Energy-dispersive X-ray spectroscopy 14:07 < yoleaux> "Energy-dispersive X-ray spectroscopy (EDS, EDX, or XEDS), sometimes called energy dispersive X-ray analysis (EDXA) or energy dispersive X-ray microanalysis (EDXMA), is an analytical technique used for the elemental analysis or chemical characterization of a sample. It relies on an interaction of some source of X-ray excitation and a …" — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy-dispersive_X-ray_spectroscopy 14:07 < nmz787_> basically uses a monochromator I think 14:07 < nmz787_> so scans to get res, but is slower... also beam-dwell of electrons/ions will cause sample destruction eventually 14:08 < chris_99> ahh 14:08 < nmz787_> so then you can try lowering the voltage of your e-beam to do electron energy loss spectroscopy 14:08 < nmz787_> .wik electron energy loss spectroscopy 14:08 < yoleaux> "In electron energy loss spectroscopy (EELS) a material is exposed to a beam of electrons with a known, narrow range of kinetic energies. Some of the electrons will undergo inelastic scattering, which means that they lose energy and have their paths slightly and randomly deflected." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_energy_loss_spectroscopy 14:09 < nmz787_> I think you can also do something with charge conduction... where at each spot you ramp the voltage and record the point at which the rate of conduction is saturated 14:09 < nmz787_> different materials will have different properties 14:10 < nmz787_> something like that 14:12 < chris_99> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_spectrometer thats intriguing, so you measure how much the electrons bend 14:14 < chris_99> does anyone know if you can actually commercially buy a single photon source off the shelf, or are they either ridiculously expensive or.. 14:21 < nmz787_> I saw this http://hackaday.com/2016/05/07/single-photon-source-for-quantum-computing-and-experimentation/ 14:23 < chris_99> i think cambridge created a single photon led, not sure what temperature theirs requires though. I'm just reading a bit about quantum dots and how they relate to single photon sources 14:40 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42 < pasky> kanzure: it sounds a bit crazy; do they at least do that & sync after each N batches? based on https://github.com/BVLC/caffe/blob/master/docs/multigpu.md caffe just averages the gradient, not the weights 14:43 < kanzure> hmm. 14:43 < kanzure> i saw one that syncs after each training round 14:43 < pasky> (i.e. it is like if you had k-times larger batch) 14:44 < kanzure> i'ts possible that i'm wrong... maybe averaging weights, averaging the models, etc. is somehow the right thing to do..... i don't know. 14:44 < kanzure> it's certainly a cool result if it works....... 14:44 < pasky> that sounds unlikely to me, the local optima can be very different weight configurations 14:45 < pasky> on the other hand if you average often enough, it may not disrupt the convergence too much 14:45 < kanzure> "stochastic gradient descent" 14:45 < kanzure> "One weird trick for parallelizing convolutional neural networks" http://arxiv.org/pdf/1404.5997.pdf 14:50 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:52 < kanzure> "GeePS: Scalable deep learning on distributed GPUs with a GPU-specialized parameter server" http://www.istc-cc.cmu.edu/publications/papers/2016/GeePS-cui-eurosys16.pdf 14:53 -!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-50-188-129-64.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:59 -!- augur [~augur@76-218-206-38.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:59 < kanzure> gene_hacker: streety and nmz787_ were thinking about some microfluidic liquid chromatography stuff, pump stuff and photoactivated polymers 15:00 < nmz787_> hi gene_hacker 15:09 < streety> averaging the gradient would seem to make more sense than the weights. Maybe it works out to be the same in the end. The parallelization I've done has been cross-validating a model architecture using multiple GPUs. 15:10 < streety> Easy approach for quick gains 15:14 -!- cynsia [cyn@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe79:d5d] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:14 < kanzure> .wik bulk synchronous parallel 15:14 < yoleaux> "The Bulk Synchronous Parallel (BSP) abstract computer is a bridging model for designing parallel algorithms. It serves a purpose similar to the Parallel Random Access Machine (PRAM) model. BSP differs from PRAM by not taking communication and synchronization for granted." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulk_synchronous_parallel 15:15 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:16 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:18 < kanzure> wtf. researchgate emails me after they saw me loading that last pdf link in here. 15:18 < kanzure> and they specifically reference that document 15:19 < kanzure> this is the most insanely draconian science site i have ever seen 15:21 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:34 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:34 < nmz787_> whoo, I think I have rastering! 15:41 < nmz787_> http://gifmaker.cc/PlayGIFAnimation.php?folder=2016082109xmUPfh351sTmeLbHTBEyG9&file=output_Wqx5Ua.gif 15:43 -!- ldlework [~ldlework@unaffiliated/ldlework] has quit [Quit: co'o ro pendo be mi] 15:43 -!- ldlework [~ldlework@104.131.139.45] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:44 -!- ldlework [~ldlework@104.131.139.45] has quit [Changing host] 15:44 -!- ldlework [~ldlework@unaffiliated/ldlework] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:47 -!- ldleworker [~ldlework@104.131.139.45] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:48 -!- ldleworker [~ldlework@104.131.139.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:50 -!- jenca [~lajenca@104.131.139.45] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:52 < nmz787_> http://i.imgur.com/Kb20d7u.gif 15:52 < nmz787_> if the last one didn't work 15:53 < chris_99> what is it? 15:53 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Quit: text1.text] 15:53 < nmz787_> same model, the microfluidic pump example 15:54 < nmz787_> just each slice has been turned into a rastered bitmap 15:54 < nmz787_> looking down in the Z axis at the model 15:54 < nmz787_> in this case I have 6 layers for the model... but in practice I think this model needs fabbed with only 2 layers 15:56 -!- jenca [~lajenca@104.131.139.45] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"] 15:56 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:56 < nmz787_> or maybe I need another layer between the top pneumatic channels and the lower pumped-channel 15:56 < chris_99> i'm not sure what a microfluidic pump is, is there a video of one, you'd recommend 15:56 < nmz787_> yielding 2 patterned layers, a spacer layer, and the top layer 15:57 < nmz787_> err, the top layer being one of the patterened layers 15:57 < chris_99> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VryS7LvjWaA is it something like this? 15:57 < nmz787_> it is just like your 3 fingers pressing a tube of tooth-paste 15:57 < nmz787_> one after the other 15:57 -!- ldlework [~ldlework@unaffiliated/ldlework] has left ##hplusroadmap ["0.4.2"] 15:57 < nmz787_> causes flow in one direction 15:58 < chris_99> ah ok, so what are you using, some kind of solenoid? 15:58 < nmz787_> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peristaltic_pump 15:58 < chris_99> oh, ive seen those 15:58 < nmz787_> not sure why the linear pump they have isn't animated, sorry 15:59 < chris_99> oh neat, i hadn't seeen the linear style 15:59 < chris_99> one thouse 15:59 < chris_99> *though 16:00 < nmz787_> the top 3 'finger' channels are pneumatic, they expand downward and cut off flow in the lower tube (perpedicular) 16:00 < chris_99> so it literally pushes different parts of the microfluidic chip? 16:00 < nmz787_> if you expand them one after another, it causes flow 16:01 < nmz787_> yeah 16:01 < chris_99> cool 16:01 < nmz787_> the channels can be solid, and the interface either silicone or very-thin glass which can flex enough to cut off a very shallow channel below it 16:02 < nmz787_> or everything can be silicone 16:02 < chris_99> ahh 16:03 < chris_99> so i'm a bit confused, what's the advantage of a peristaltic style pump, over just forcing the liquid through with a syringe? 16:05 < chris_99> oh is it the fact you can build it all as part of the single chip, rather than needing external hardware 16:10 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:11 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:f03a:fc32:3a73:da6] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:11 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:f03a:fc32:3a73:da6] has quit [Changing host] 16:11 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:11 < streety> I think you still need external hardware to pressurize the three fingers 16:12 < chris_99> hmm true 16:12 < streety> probably get some metering ability 16:15 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:21 < nmz787_> well they are also composed of 3 valves... and valves are useful in general to be able to make. 16:21 < nmz787_> but a macro air valve can probably control lots of micro pumps 16:21 < nmz787_> so you can probably drive 10s or 100s of parallelized stuff with the same macro stuff 16:21 < chris_99> ahh 16:21 < chris_99> cool 16:23 < chris_99> are you planning on fabricating your chip, yourself? 16:23 < nmz787_> and yeah metering, if you can control the size of the pump, and number of 'fingers', you can control output flow and ripple more or less finely 16:23 < nmz787_> yeah, I have a spin coater and a laser etcher CNC 16:23 < nmz787_> (unfortunately they are not mated to each other) 16:23 < streety> don't you need the line to each finger to be individually addressed? 16:25 < chris_99> what's the spin coater used for in this context? to lay down a very clean amount of the PDMS or whatnot? 16:26 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:26 < streety> I think it may also be used to apply a layer of photoresist 16:26 < streety> not sure what nmz787_ has planned though 16:26 < nmz787_> streety: yeah, but you can hook line A up to many 'needs actuated finger A's 16:27 < nmz787_> chris_99: yeah photoresist, then that gets exposed with laser, then use as-is possibly or cast PDMS on, then peel off and sandwich 16:28 < streety> good point 16:28 < nmz787_> chris_99: also though, I want to convert exported rasters to the FIB tool format, so I can etch things with that... and maybe possibly do deposition 16:28 < streety> can you then block individual pumps with another line? 16:28 < chris_99> ahh, could you use it to directly spin the PDMS, and etch directly? or would that not work 16:28 < nmz787_> streety: yeah I guess if it was called for, sure 16:28 < nmz787_> I've read of multiplexers 16:29 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:29 < nmz787_> but I think there is probably some kind of max-levels of valving/muxing you can do, before you lose strength 16:32 < nmz787_> I want to translate this to use my BRL-CAD python lib: https://gist.github.com/nmz787/83a826ca4d40011262e7382b46c22570 16:32 < nmz787_> which outputted this http://imgur.com/PKFXtCV 16:32 < nmz787_> based on this http://www.seas.harvard.edu/capasso/wp-content/uploads/publications/sciencejune3-2016.pdf 16:33 < nmz787_> Metalenses at visible wavelengths: Diffraction-limited focusing and subwavelength resolution imaging 16:33 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:34 < nmz787_> I want to try simply FIBbing some silicon then coating it with gold or maybe imprinting it into some plexiglass 16:35 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:36 < chris_99> neat! Does your spin coater (or spin coaters in general) have a way of measuring the thickness of what you spin 16:36 < chris_99> so you could spin for a specific duration etc 16:37 < chris_99> until it hits a certain thickness 16:41 < nmz787_> nah, you have to do that with another machine, I guess in some high-volume setups they may be integrated 16:41 < chris_99> ah gotcha 16:42 < chris_99> i was trying to find which came first spin art, or spin coating ;) but can't seem to find a decent history of spin coating 16:42 < nmz787_> either go through curing then cut and image it, or you use an interferometer on the gel/thin-film, or I think another way too, time of flight or something maybe 16:43 < chris_99> mmm 16:43 < chris_99> i was thinking if you had a laser or something point at it, during the spining 16:43 < nmz787_> yeah maybe it is just deflection 16:43 < nmz787_> the last tech I was thinking of 16:44 < chris_99> would it be fairly easy to diy a spin coater, or is there some complex aspects im not thinking of, like precise motor control 16:45 < streety> there is a video on the applied science channel 16:46 < streety> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=321tptQ8PrU 16:46 < chris_99> cheers 16:46 < kanzure> .title 16:46 < yoleaux> Design and build a spin coater - YouTube 16:46 -!- Malvolio is now known as Sooka 16:46 < chris_99> i love krasnows stuff 16:48 < chris_99> so for making the microfluidic slide, you say you spin the photoresist, then you pour the PDMS into it, i guess? does that mean you then have to spin a layer of PDMS too, to cover the bottom part of the slide? 16:48 -!- Sooka is now known as Malvolio 16:52 < streety> I think you peel the PDMS layer off after it has set and then apply that 16:55 < nmz787_> spin resist, pattern resist, develop resist, pour on silicone and spin (I think, or maybe people usually just pour and let it settle/self-level with gravity) then peel off. 16:56 < nmz787_> for the interface layer, I think people just spin silicone, then cure it, then peel and use it for the in-between layer 17:00 -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03 < chris_99> sorry im confused what covers the slide? so the liquid doesn't fall out i mean. is the interface layer the thing that does that? 17:04 < nmz787_> that or a glass microscope slide 17:05 < nmz787_> or a combination depending on your sandwich of layers 17:05 < chris_99> gotcha 17:05 < chris_99> do you have to use a vacuum chamber for the resin to degas it, prior to spinning 17:13 < nmz787_> ideally yeah 17:30 < nmz787_> here's a grey-scaled output, based on the thickness of the region in the slice: http://imgur.com/a/HKjKW 17:50 -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58 -!- duper [~super@ca4.blackcatz.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:03 -!- Orpheon [~Orpheon@27.160.62.81.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:12 < nmz787_> even finer slices, with grey-scale: https://giphy.com/gifs/iARXASzJvXR3W 19:11 -!- anoncicada [anoncicada@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-udbgtidsefpkkkrk] has quit [Quit: faggory daggory doo!] 19:17 -!- anoncicada [anoncicada@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-sfldulfrkatdqige] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:20 -!- irseeyou [~irseeyou@c-67-168-101-20.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:20 -!- irseeyou [~irseeyou@c-67-168-101-20.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:23 -!- anoncicada [anoncicada@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-sfldulfrkatdqige] has quit [Changing host] 19:23 -!- anoncicada [anoncicada@unaffiliated/anarcanon] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:23 -!- anoncicada [anoncicada@unaffiliated/anarcanon] has quit [Changing host] 19:23 -!- anoncicada [anoncicada@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-sfldulfrkatdqige] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:25 -!- c0rw1n- [~c0rw1n@223.100-136-217.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:27 -!- c0rw1n 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quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:27 -!- maaku [~quassel@173-228-107-141.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28 -!- maaku [~quassel@173.228.107.141] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:34 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Quit: text1] 21:36 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:41 -!- andytoshi [~andytoshi@unaffiliated/andytoshi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:50 < kanzure> bloop 21:52 < andytoshi> blop 21:53 < kanzure> hm. 22:19 < kanzure> where is eudoxia 22:19 < kanzure> nevermind. seems that he was alive at least 8 days ago. 22:33 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:39 -!- jcorgan [~jcorgan@unaffiliated/jcorgan] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:39 -!- jcorgan [~jcorgan@64-142-68-61.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:40 -!- jcorgan [~jcorgan@64-142-68-61.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:40 -!- jcorgan [~jcorgan@unaffiliated/jcorgan] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:43 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2602:306:35fa:d500:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:47 -!- justanot1eruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:52 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-23-20-26-181.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53 -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-196-87-168.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:00 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:06 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:07 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.145.152] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:07 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.145.152] has quit [Changing host] 23:07 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:21 < nmz787_> welp, got the raster export committed! 23:27 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:29 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.145.152] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:29 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.145.152] has quit [Changing host] 23:29 -!- ebowden [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:32 < nmz787_> .tell abetusk I implemented raster generation from BRL-CAD model slices... would love some tips for getting the points exported to G-code: https://github.com/nmz787/python-brlcad-tcl 23:32 < yoleaux> nmz787_: I'll pass your message to abetusk. --- Log closed Mon Aug 22 00:00:32 2016