--- Log opened Mon Sep 05 00:00:17 2016
--- Day changed Mon Sep 05 2016
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00:08 < Forrest> My dad sent me some article about teixobactin and isolation chips and started asking weird electronics questions.
00:08 < Forrest> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/03/14/first-new-antibiotic-in-30-years-discovered-in-major-breakthroug/
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00:09 < Forrest> Turns out the article doesn't understand what's going on and thinks the breakthrough, which is like decade-old news, is due to an electronic chip of some kind.
00:09 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=88826622 Bryan Bishop: transcript: djb on safecurves >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/safecurves-choosing-safe-curves-for-elliptic-curve-cryptography-2014/
00:10 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=89bfa246 Bryan Bishop: fix minor typo >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/safecurves-choosing-safe-curves-for-elliptic-curve-cryptography-2014/
00:15 < Forrest> http://aem.asm.org/content/76/8/2445.full.pdf+html
00:15 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=b5a8895c Bryan Bishop: fix bad wikitext >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/safecurves-choosing-safe-curves-for-elliptic-curve-cryptography-2014/
00:16 < Forrest> this describes the chip construction, it's basically easy to make with a laser cutter and common materials.
00:16 < kanzure> https://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/safecurves-choosing-safe-curves-for-elliptic-curve-cryptography-2014/
00:17 < kanzure> https://twitter.com/kanzure/status/772694174327988224
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08:41 < kanzure> "An efficient electroporation protocol for the genetic modification of mammalian cells" http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/09/04/073387
08:41 < kanzure> "High-resolution phenotypic landscape of the RNA Polymerase II trigger loop" http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/08/14/068726
08:42 < kanzure> "Astrocytes locally translate transcripts in their peripheral processes" http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/08/29/071795
08:44 < kanzure> "A feedback loop able to enlarge the brain for 2.4 myr without Darwin's selective survival" http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/08/26/053827
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08:58 < maaku> u.title https://arxiv.org/abs/1608.04062
08:58 < maaku> .title
08:58 < yoleaux> [1608.04062] Stacked Approximated Regression Machine: A Simple Deep Learning Approach
08:59 < kanzure> maaku: i think there was a thing that was complaining about everything turning into djb-land, but i don't know what thing was saying this. where was it?
08:59 < kanzure> oh! "On the impending crypto monoculture" http://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2016-March/028824.html
09:00 < maaku> yep
09:00 < maaku> (agree with it, btw)
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09:01 < gradstudentbot> I think my PI hates me.
09:01 < maaku> what djb is doing is saying "hey what you guys are doing is stupid. do this instead" and he's right about stupidity. but the offered solution is not the optimal choice...
09:01 < kanzure> which particular thing is not the optimal choice?
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09:02 < maaku> so there's a lot of weird design choices in curve 25519 that cut off entire protocols for some marginal speed improvement, e.g. public key derivation is impossible
09:03 < maaku> i believe there are also problems with it having fewer mappings between other curves which is useful for certain zero-knowledge proof schemes
09:04 < maaku> but I'm not outside of my domain and parroting gmaxwell
09:04 < kanzure> s/not/now?
09:04 < maaku> yup, autocorrect
09:05 < maaku> likewise on the hash function and symmetric encryption side, he is less conservative than the SHA3 and AES finalists
09:05 < kanzure> any complaints about his rigidity approach?
09:06 < kanzure> see "rigidity" section https://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/safecurves-choosing-safe-curves-for-elliptic-curve-cryptography-2014/
09:07 < maaku> I haven't read this article. I would ping greg.
09:07 < kanzure> yes i had typed it last night
09:08 < maaku> I know greg complained about the safecurves page ... not that anything was factually wrong, but that it only presented one side and left you unfairly biased in favor of djb's choices
09:08 < kanzure> okay i have asked in -wizards
09:09 < maaku> I'll add it to my list of things to review
09:09 < kanzure> for some reason i thought djb was much older
09:10 < maaku> I was surprised to meet him in person for the same reason
09:11 < maaku> https://safecurves.cr.yp.to/rigid.html
09:12 < kanzure> i feel a little uncomfortable about the name of safecurves website. i would prefer something not so boisterous.
09:13 < gradstudentbot> So, there's this really good conference in Spain that I want to attend.
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09:13 < kanzure> "TotallyDefinitelySafeCurves" er...
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09:15 < maaku> my impression is that djb's position is "we can't trust committees, so let's not use anything touched by a committee!" and then offering a bunch of solutions with a trust set of approximately 1 (djb)
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09:15 < maaku> but design by committee actually has benefits for these standards -- you end up creating standards that solve everybody's use cases fairly well
09:16 < kanzure> sure. and he seems to sort of provide hints for most of the choices. although i would prefer more review of alternatives and why they suck. i don't know. some of this material just "appears" out of nowhere and it's a little ridiculous- it's already hard enough to source the etiology of ideas in the first place, much less when stuff is dropped in public out of the blue.
09:16 < maaku> right
09:17 < maaku> also there exist good solutions with solid pedigree already -- AES is the canonical example
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09:17 < maaku> there's noone outside of crazy town that thinks Rijndael is compromised
09:18 < maaku> likewise any of the SHA3 finalists are extremely well reviewed with varying performance tradeoffs
09:20 < kanzure> after watching a bunch of the videos from simons institute about historical talks on cryptography, my observation is that there's actually not that much history, it's a surprisingly limited amount of stuff
09:20 < kanzure> like someone references miller 1985 someone references koblitz 1986, maybe ajtai's paper, then some diffie-hellman stuff, and then they run out of steam and it's a bunch of really tiny contribution papers
09:21 < kanzure> one speaker commented "well there's 100s of papers per month in this field now and it's hard to keep up"-- i looked, and none of the google scholar results were reviews of recent work. so if everyone has to duplicate all the reading, then yeah i could see why that would be a problem, especially for an endless wave of small contributions.
09:23 < kanzure> and also, people seem to really suck at communicating in terms of intuition
09:26 < kanzure> https://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/simons-institute/pairing-cryptography/
09:26 < kanzure> https://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/simons-institute/history-of-lattice-based-cryptography/
09:29 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=3f4b1973 Bryan Bishop: add a reference for pairing >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/simons-institute/pairing-cryptography/
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10:39 < kanzure> "Paperfuge: An ultra-low cost, hand-powered centrifuge inspired by the mechanics of a whirligig toy" http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2016/08/30/072207.full.pdf
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12:00 < ybit> http://algorithmicbotany.org/papers/abop/abop.pdf :: the algorithmic beauty of plants
12:01 < ybit> this never gets old https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBXO_6Jn1fs
12:02 < ybit> .title
12:02 < yoleaux> Self Replication #3 - YouTube
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12:04 < ybit> i've never read his thesis though: http://www.srm.org.uk/thesis/WillStevens-Thesis.pdf
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15:50 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/VesselOfSpirit/status/757806610819354624
15:50 < yoleaux> you may not think your brain is a supervillain. but 1) its called Brain and 2) it lives in a skull fortress (@VesselOfSpirit, in reply to tw:757806449632223232)
15:51 < c0rw1n> hehe
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16:53 < ybit> http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2015/05/01/018804.full.pdf
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18:55 < fenn> i could certainly use one of these laser blasters http://youtu.be/Q8q3DZB_l6M
19:00 < kanzure> i'll wait for the 1 kW solid state lasers. thanks though.
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19:05 < kanzure> oh maybe i wont. hrm.
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19:42 < fenn> it does seem kinda silly that they need a huge cabinet and 2 inch diameter cables for a measly 1kW of power
19:44 < fenn> 300 watts seems to work fine
19:45 < fenn> i guess most of the cabinets and tubing is for the vacuum filtration system
19:46 < kanzure> 'chemistry of brain fixation is far more scalable than chemistry of large-scale genome sequencing'
19:52 < kanzure> boom-bust cycles from lightning strikes and brush mazes is a good idea in that bioriv paper from earlier today
19:53 < kanzure> essentially the hominids get trapped into different zones because of the growth of brush physically separating the different populations (until lightning strikes and large-scale fires) http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/08/26/053827
19:54 < kanzure> not really sure why its author complains about natural selection.  to me it would seem that brush fires are part of natural selection there.
19:56 < kanzure> it provides a scenario where there is rapid environmental change (hunting vs .. not..) which would select for brain adaptability more than it would select for genetic switching between different social roles between generations or whatever. in fact maybe large-scale fires would occur multiple times in a single lifetime, requiring switching between lifestyles multiple times by a single individual rather than generational switching.
19:57 < kanzure> *biorxiv
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20:31 < xentrac> is that 1kW of output power or of input power, fenn?
20:31 < xentrac> because lasers are usually almost as inefficient as speakers or traditional lightbulbs
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20:52 < xentrac> if they need 20kW of electrical input power to produce 1kW of laser output power, that would make perfect sense
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