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05:45 < kanzure> hm.
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07:41 < kanzure> docl: oh you know QuantumG. cool.
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07:45 < kanzure> "Superintelligence cannot be contained: Lessons from computability theory" https://arxiv.org/abs/1607.00913
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10:33 < sebboh> hi kanzure, your contact page on fairlystable lead me here.
10:34 < kanzure> what's up.
10:34 < sebboh> I'm a new user. :)
10:34 < kanzure> of course you are
10:34 < kanzure> hi
10:35 < sebboh> Made a repo named doer.  Hi.  So, great service, thank you.
10:35 < kanzure> i'm merely a user on the site
10:35 < kanzure> jrayhawk is the site operator
10:35 < kanzure> blame him
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10:37 < sebboh> ohh!  Well hi jrayhawk_!  See above... :)  Anybody see anything wrong or expensive about my use so far?  Can I get a heads up if I'm doing anything wrong or if the site is going to go down or something? :)
10:37 < gradstudentbot> Is there free food at that seminar?
10:41 < sebboh> also while I'm here, a question... you folks know that group of people called OpenBCI?  They have a kickstarter for some EEG rig..  Would you buy one from them or should I look elsewhere?
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11:01 < kanzure> https://blog.angel.co/dr-jenny-rooke-on-the-biggest-life-sciences-investment-shes-made-in-20-years/
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14:32 < jrayhawk_> sebboh: Nah, you'd have to eat up several gigs before I noticed enough to care.
14:33 < gradstudentbot> Can I take a nap yet?
14:33 < jrayhawk_> Oh hey, templates for that broke again. Ugh.
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14:37 < sebboh> templates for what?  I had a hard time changing a template today until I just git clone the whole thing and wrote one. Easy, then. :)
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14:38 < jrayhawk_> Main page templates. "Preferences", in particular, is useless and supposed to be disabled.
14:39 < sebboh> btw the piny on piny.be has ikiwiki 3.20141016.
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14:39 < jrayhawk_> That is an excellent point.
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14:41 < sebboh> what are the odds that anybody's site will break?  (Mine won't or if it does I don't care, hardly anything there!)
14:41 < gradstudentbot> The results of my study indicate that the climate is about to get really weird.
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14:42 < sebboh> btw sorry all for taking over conversation in here. :)  Any better place?  Not that this isn't lovely, I just don't want to be rude (more).
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14:43 < jrayhawk_> I'm actually a little confused about how you associated Kanzure's name with fairlystable
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14:43 < jrayhawk_> But up to him if he cares. To some extent people tricking me into working on piny benefits him since he's using it on his servers.
14:44 < sebboh> oh I just did a site: google search and he's got his contact info on there somewhere, it was actually kinda a blunder for me to assume he was admin!
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14:44 < sebboh> s/kinda//
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14:51 < kanzure> oh so it is... weird.
14:52 < sebboh> :)
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14:57 < jrayhawk_> Oh that's right, all those aliases exist for migration purposes. I guess I should 301 those back over to the proper places.
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16:22 < justan0theruser> they gave me a crazy quote for the curved linear track
16:22 < justan0theruser> $5k-$10k
16:25 < kanzure> "sounds like you are in the wrong business"
16:31 < justan0theruser> I think I'll just make a hack with a non-geared curved linear track
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17:52 < kanzure> someone points out that scurvy is missing from http://diyhpl.us/wiki/genetic-modifications/
17:58 < justan0theruser> grubhub is down
18:08 < CaptHindsight> justan0theruser: automation components are not in the same price range as openbuilds, reprap and ChinaCo ballscrews and linear bearings
18:10 < CaptHindsight> https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-cnc-linear-rail.html  maybe you can find a supplier that doesn't assemble their crunchy bearings on a dirt floor
18:12 < kanzure> "Ascorbic acid as a sensor of oxidative stress and a regulator of gene expression: The Yin and Yang of vitamin C" http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877(07)00159-4/abstract
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18:13 < kanzure> ForrestFlanagan: greets
18:13 < kanzure> ForrestFlanagan: you should add things to http://diyhpl.us/wiki/genetic-modifications/
18:13 < kanzure> there's probably many things missing from there these days, it's been more than a year since that page was updated
18:13 < ForrestFlanagan> I'll just allay my train of thought in the chat right here
18:14 < ForrestFlanagan> I was in the process of finding the edit for re-enabling vitamin c synthesis in primates
18:15 < ForrestFlanagan> and I started finding evolutionary papers theorizing about how the initial mutation conveyed enough advantage to be conserved
18:16 < ForrestFlanagan> and it got me thinking that maybe fixing vitamin c synthesis would convey more risk than benefit with modern diets by disrupting useful biological signaling pathways
18:16 < ForrestFlanagan> or maybe 'modern diets' bodge things up so much that it doesn't really matter, but my point is there's an element of risk
18:17 < ForrestFlanagan> I'm currently reading this paper http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.mehy.2007.02.008
18:17 < ForrestFlanagan> .title
18:17 < yoleaux> ForrestFlanagan: Sorry, that doesn't appear to be an HTML page.
18:17 < ForrestFlanagan> Ascorbic acid as a sensor of oxidative stress and a regulator of gene expression: The Yin and Yang of vitamin C
18:18 < ForrestFlanagan> why do they use yin and yang in the title
18:18 < ForrestFlanagan> the authors are italians
18:18 < ForrestFlanagan> in italy
18:20 < kanzure> eh, you could probably do basic metabolic testing to determine whether that disruption would occur
18:20 < kanzure> like with tissue culture
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18:30 < ForrestFlanagan> there's a thing called transcription factor HIF1-alpha
18:30 < ForrestFlanagan> it's inhibited if ascorbic acid is around
18:31 < ForrestFlanagan> if ascorbic acid is used up, it activates a bunch of genes real hard
18:31 < ForrestFlanagan> still looking those up
18:32 < ForrestFlanagan> but there's a link between megadosing on vitamin c and cancer getting worse
18:32 < ForrestFlanagan> and additionally, one of the things transcription factor HIF1-alpha activates has to do with making new blood vessels
18:33 < ForrestFlanagan> but I think it'd be a bad thing if cancer got more blood vessels
18:33 < ForrestFlanagan> there must be something I'm not getting
18:33 < kanzure> it's not easy to tell the regulatory effects of increasing or decreasing cellular metabolism like this
18:33 < kanzure> it's true thta megadosing can have negative effects, but that's not the same as hacking metabolism to express vitamin c
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18:35 < ForrestFlanagan> well sure
18:35 < ForrestFlanagan> the HIF stands for  hypoxia-inducible factor, btw
18:36 < ForrestFlanagan> it requires four things to be inhibited
18:36 < ForrestFlanagan> oxygen, iron, vitamin C, and 2-oxo-glutarate
18:37 < ForrestFlanagan> if any one drops, it starts promoting a bunch of genes that I'm still looking into
18:37 < ForrestFlanagan> but I found a paper about it's activity when the oxygen level drops
18:37 < ForrestFlanagan> in healing lung injuries
18:38 < kanzure> yes there's lots of weird low-oxygen tissue preservation things out there..
18:41 < ForrestFlanagan> point is fixing it is likely to shake some complicated stuff up, the exact effects may be unnoticed until it's widely implemented
18:42 < ForrestFlanagan> might increase certain cancer risks, might also make it harder to gain weight, would definitely influence food cravings
18:44 < ForrestFlanagan> eh, I'll find the edit that fixes it for the wiki, I just want to put it out there that fixing really old damage in an evolved system can disrupt potentially useful things that appeared in the meantime
18:45 < ForrestFlanagan> also it's way easier to find the region that humans lost vs the primates that codes for penis spines
18:45 < ForrestFlanagan> just throwing that out there
18:46 < ForrestFlanagan> it's maybe the largest region humans don't have that chimps do
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18:52 < kanzure> wiki edits would be cool
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18:58 < ForrestFlanagan> http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/15/15-50759-CV0.pdf Defense Distributed lost again in their ITAR vs 3D printing files case
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18:59 < kanzure> oh interesting.
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18:59 < ForrestFlanagan> potentially at stake: any open technical data that could be interpreted as pertaining to a weapon
19:00 < ForrestFlanagan> potentially, interpretations could be stretched out to the point of being silly
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19:03 < kanzure> right. well, i guess we'll go back to printing cryptography on t-shirts.
19:03 < ForrestFlanagan> fortunately, their current stuff is available in the fosscad torrent
19:04 < ForrestFlanagan> you could also try publishing crypto as a book
19:04 < kanzure> adam back published crypto using a perl 3-liner on a t-shirt
19:04 < ForrestFlanagan> I've got a friend that bought the PGP source code as a book when it looked like it was going to be outlawed
19:05 < kanzure> back when crypto was classified as "military-grade munition" (actually it still is?)
19:05 < ForrestFlanagan> perl 3 liner can't be that great for crypto?
19:05 < ForrestFlanagan> what is is some kind of cipher?
19:06 < ForrestFlanagan> I take that right back
19:07 < kanzure> hm the dissent in that pdf is interesting
19:09 < justan0theruser> I'm asking an indian company right now
19:09 < ForrestFlanagan> the thing is itar doesn't apply to things like shitty toy pepperbox pistols
19:10 < kanzure> mostly we run into ITAR problems because missiles and space tech :(
19:10 < ForrestFlanagan> if it did I could get in trouble for just telling some foreign guy that a 3/4 inch steel gas pipe is a great fit for a 12 ga shell
19:13 < ForrestFlanagan> "Indeed, the State Department has explicitly taken the position in this litigation and in a June 2015 Notice of Proposed Rulemaking that an individual wishing to place technical data in the public domain must obtain State Department approval."
19:13 < ForrestFlanagan> oh snap, lock down ye git
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19:14 < ForrestFlanagan> you need to ask john kerry permission
19:14 < ForrestFlanagan> heck, this chat is logged and public
19:15 < kanzure> yep
19:15 < ForrestFlanagan> the texas state dept should know, according to their 2015 notice of proposed rulemaking
19:15 < kanzure> but that's okay- there's already terrible things in the logs, you can't make it much worse
19:15 < kanzure> virus manufacturing, uploading everyone and torturing billions of simulations for eternity, grey goo accidents, etc.... what's the worst that could happen. meh.
19:18 < ForrestFlanagan> actually maybe the state dept is monitoring all the hplusroadmap code repositories
19:18 < ForrestFlanagan> nah, that would imply there's some kind of intelligent resource allocation in texas
19:19 < kanzure> we have also discussed methods of destroying various celestial bodies such as the earth and various moons-- although nobody seems particularly concerned about this *shrug*
19:20 < ForrestFlanagan> oh, I like the idea of electromagnetic star lifting
19:20 < ForrestFlanagan> just juice a star like an orange
19:20 < kanzure> links?
19:21 < ForrestFlanagan> I can probably dig some up
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19:28 < ForrestFlanagan> In leiu of chapter four of David Criswell's book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_lifting
19:28 < kanzure> .wik star lifting
19:28 < yoleaux> "Star lifting is any of several hypothetical processes by which a sufficiently advanced civilization (specifically, one of Kardashev-II or higher) could remove a substantial portion of a star matter for any number of purposes. The term appears to have been coined by David Criswell." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_lifting
19:28 < ForrestFlanagan> seti types look for it
19:29 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/physics/astrophysics/black-holes/Black%20holes:%20attractors%20for%20intelligence%3f.pdf
19:29 < ForrestFlanagan> I know that paper
19:29 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/physics/astrophysics/Starivore%20extraterrestrials%20-%20Interacting%20binary%20stars%20as%20macroscopic%20metabolic%20systems%20-%20Clement%20Vidal.pdf
19:31 < ForrestFlanagan> one of criswell's ideas is to use stimulated mass ejection from stars to create gas giants for storing hydrogen and helium
19:33 < ForrestFlanagan> there's also application in mining the heavier stuff from stars, but I can't find a digital copy of the book
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19:34 < ForrestFlanagan> anyways, star lifting goes hand in hand with any considerable sized dyson cloud
19:35 < ForrestFlanagan> just turn down the magnetic repulsion on your statites and drift toward the star for a bit
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19:35 < ForrestFlanagan> then turn the whole cloud on at once, full blast
19:36 < ForrestFlanagan> and you get the "everyone on the equator just jumped at the same time" effect
19:36 < ForrestFlanagan> and then hopefully you've got a plan for steering the coronal mass ejection
19:37 < kanzure> ForrestFlanagan: did you see the madeinspace transcript recently? http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/niac-2016/reconstituting-asteroids-into-mechnical-automata/
19:37 < kanzure> and also http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/seti-megastructures-jason-wright-2016/
19:39 < ForrestFlanagan> that's interesting
19:39 < ForrestFlanagan> wait I've seen the seti megastructures talk
19:40 < ForrestFlanagan> it was in your transcripts, It must have come up previously
19:40 < ForrestFlanagan> I want to see cyclotrons in space
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19:41 < ForrestFlanagan> specifically free electron lasers
19:41 < ForrestFlanagan> they just need power and vacuum, space has plenty of that
19:42 < kanzure> i'll get right on it.
19:42 < kanzure> ForrestFlanagan: ok how about http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/optics/Orbiting%20rainbows%20-%20optical%20manipulation%20of%20aerosols%20and%20the%20beginnings%20of%20future%20space%20construction%20-%20NASA.pdf
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19:43 < ForrestFlanagan> that looks like it'd shit up radio, terrestrial astronomy, etc
19:43 < ForrestFlanagan> on first glance
19:44 < kanzure> depends on where and how you deploy it
19:44 < kanzure> presumably you would use very isolated aerosol clumps
19:44 < kanzure> rather than adding a stupid ring to the planet
19:45 < ForrestFlanagan> it's using laser pressure containment early on
19:45 < ForrestFlanagan> in an optically fucky medium
19:45 < kanzure> ya
19:45 < kanzure> well it's optical pressure to push things back into the right places, but not always-on
19:46 < ForrestFlanagan> btw
19:46 < ForrestFlanagan> that's a way to do a demonpore, right?
19:46 < ForrestFlanagan> optical pressure?
19:46 < kanzure> optical traps are really bulky and annoying to setup
19:47 < ForrestFlanagan> I've been puzzling over materials, but it occurs that maybe demonpores are just a refinement on optical traps?
19:47 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3kMjXAe6FU
19:47 < yoleaux> Optical tweezer setup - YouTube
19:48 < kanzure> that's not as bad as i remember
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19:48 < ForrestFlanagan> just guessing, I think they're interesting and it bothered me that I couldn't think of a straightforward way to make ultra cheap and simple demonpores
19:50 < ForrestFlanagan> I mean, they'd have to be cheap and simple if I'm to have half a dozen of them in my bathrooms analyzing my various fluids
19:54 < kanzure> ForrestFlanagan: btw i think we were first talking about demonpore around here (maybe earlier in this log) http://gnusha.org/logs/html/2015-10-05.log.html#t14:57-206
19:54 < ForrestFlanagan> will read
19:54 < ForrestFlanagan> I'm looking at this space rainbow thing
19:55 < ForrestFlanagan> and I keep thinking of this 1966 project that I prefer
19:55 < ForrestFlanagan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PasComSat
19:55 < ForrestFlanagan> .title
19:55 < yoleaux> PasComSat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
19:55 < ForrestFlanagan> .wik
19:55 < yoleaux> Search for an article on Wikipedia
19:55 < ForrestFlanagan> .wik pascomsat
19:55 < yoleaux> "Passive Communications Satellite or PasComSat, also known as OV1-8 was a communications satellite launched by USAF in 1966 as part of the Orbiting Vehicle program." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PasComSat
19:55 < ForrestFlanagan> so, it was a big balloon
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19:56 < ForrestFlanagan> with a grid of aluminum on it
19:56 < ForrestFlanagan> the balloon material degraded in UV
19:56 < ForrestFlanagan> and the aluminum work-hardened
19:56 < ForrestFlanagan> leaving this empty grid in the upper atmosphere with practically no drag and wonderful RF retroreflector properties
19:57 < kanzure> actually that log is pretty good
19:57 < kanzure> got lost in it for a sec
19:57 < ForrestFlanagan> it stayed up for 12 years
19:57 < ForrestFlanagan> it's a rock-solid design
19:58 < ForrestFlanagan> no fancy rocket or space laser required
19:58 < ForrestFlanagan> need new RF properties? lay the foil on the balloon different and launch a new one
19:59 < ForrestFlanagan> it's like, within the realm of ham radio rocket enthusiasts
20:01 < kanzure> jcorgan was showing off some balloon/gnuradio results recently. where did those go.. hm.
20:02 < kanzure> ah he's not online at the moment.
20:11 < CaptHindsight> ForrestFlanagan: not sure what the demonpores uses for materials, but there are lots of materials that will fit the bill, especially polymers
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20:13 < gradstudentbot> Blah, I'm going to quit.
20:15 < CaptHindsight> plus you're not trying to grip anything, just form a opening just larger than the molecules passing through it and be compatible with the materials used for sensing
20:18 < kanzure> 20:14 < kanzure> 4f267942ab180c218c576bc8b43d7615ab870e065b2e49927cccfcccf1d6c9e3 http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-wizards/archives/bitcoin-wizards-logs-2016-09-22.tar.gz
20:18 < kanzure> 20:14 < kanzure> d8b1cbb453d9e69bc015878bad844a0194d74f134c6ccaf9d5fb2df1c211ad59 http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-wizards/archives/bitcoin-wizards-logs-html-2016-09-22.tar.gz
20:18 < kanzure> 20:15 < kanzure> also, html logs (with permalinks and anchorlinks for each message) are now available at http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-wizards/html/
20:18 < kanzure> 20:16 < kanzure> if you make a backup then please consider also grabbing this one:
20:18 < kanzure> 20:16 < kanzure> 727717084b1b520902c0afc19c6d2c4f7bca0334bf4e5bf7af1557102087bb38 http://gnusha.org/logs/archives/hplusroadmap-2016-09-18.tar.gz
20:19 < kanzure> 20:16 < kanzure> (it's unrelated; figure it wouldn't hurt to ask since i'm doing the same for -wizards logs anyway.)
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--- Log closed Fri Sep 23 00:00:02 2016